Why is this kid in a secret prison being tortured? I'm supposed to torch the Constitution over my fear of this kid? What planet am I on?

15 Year old Tortured because he may be a Criminal. If he is indeed a criminal than he should be tried an if convicted he should be punished. What ever happened in this Country about "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", another attack on our Constitution by this Criminal Administration.

TORTURE, Not in my name, get these fucking criminals out of our White House, God where is the CONGRESS an the WORLD COURT. A true National Disgrace, AN THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING, the true BUSH LEGACY.......

Even if we had a Video of the Clinton Blow Job, it would be nothing compared to this youngs mans plea for Mercy an Help, this done by this Criminal Administration IN THE NAME OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, WHAT A FUCKING DISGRACE..............

Fuck him. He is a terrorist.

Celery Stick,

So anyone pleading Help me Help me immediatly gets released from detention.

Give me a break.

Khadr killed an American soldier with a grenade during fighting in Afghanistan in 2002

Oh well... fuck him.

Heath Ledger today is a better actor than this douche...

I hope to God he's guilty. If he isn't, we should be ashamed of ourselves.

It is interesting, however, that 2112 can somehow determine a teenager is a terrorist based upon a few minutes of video footage. Who do you think you are, Bill Frist?

Don't worry, celi, pretty soon Obama will be president, kittens will fart rainbows and the world will be a better place.

Who do you think you are, Bill Frist?

Posted by __b__

I don't expect kittens to fart rainbows. I do expect to see the end of Gitmo.

Most of the people in Gitmo were reported by other Iraqi citizens for the equivalent of two years pay. Don't like someone? Turn 'em over to the Americans. Business competition? Turn 'em over to the Americans. Where they're held without trial and tortured. We sure are good at making terrorists.

Hey, where is Armyof1 and all those dumb-fuck oohrah idiots. Let's send them down to gitmo to help torture this little feller.

They could beat him about the head and neck until he pees his pants

That will make them finally feel secure in their manhood.

I do expect to see the end of Gitmo.

Posted by Scrumplet

Both Obama and McCain are in favor of shutting down Gitmo, so no matter what the Guantanamo prison will be shut down.

If I were Bush I would shut it down before I left office so that if Obama wins he can't come in and shut it down as an insult to my presidency...

Both Obama and McCain are in favor of shutting down Gitmo, so no matter what the Guantanamo prison will be shut down.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

But what's not going to happen is that the prisoners are going to be released... where are they going to go then? off to some floating prison barges, away from any scrutiny or jurisdiction? At that point, closing Gitmo only has a P.R. benefit and no other.

But what's not going to happen is that the prisoners are going to be released... where are they going to go then?

As long as they aren't released I could honestly give a fuck... these types of "soldiers" aren't like POWs from any type of standing uniformed army. They aren't going to go back to their countries and live a normal life. They're going to join right back up with the terrorist groups they were with, and go right back to killing innocent people. Fuck 'em... fuck 'em right in the ear.

Ever seen Face Off? Horrendous Nick Cage/John Travolta movie... but in it they had a secret prison on what looked like an offshore oil rig... we need to start building those...

-Ever seen Face Off? Horrendous Nick Cage/John Travolta movie

A Top Ten Worst Movie Ever. Startlingly bad.

I hate the idea of closing Gitmo before Bush/Cheney get a chance to room together there.

As long as they aren't released I could honestly give a fuck...
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

I know, oversight bad and all.

"but in it they had a secret prison on what looked like an offshore oil rig... "
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Does Goatman have anything to share with us?

I know, oversight bad and all.

If someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they weren't a terrorist and never will be, then I wouldn't mind releasing them provided they were tagged like a humpback whale...

As long as they aren't released I could honestly give a fuck... these types of "soldiers" aren't like POWs from any type of standing uniformed army. They aren't going to go back to their countries and live a normal life. They're going to join right back up with the terrorist groups they were with, and go right back to killing innocent people. Fuck 'em... fuck 'em right in the ear.

He killed a guy Rob, fine. Put him in prison. Why are we torturing him? He was 15 years old for Christ's sake. He has zero value for interrogation, so put him in prison and throw away the key if it makes you feel better. What is the point of torturing him? If possible, though unlikely, please come up with something that doesn't involve hand wringing about "them" chopping off heads...this is about us, not "them".

Or why don't we rehabilitate and show him what our way of life really is, and turn him into a translator/CIA spook/next bin laden, what have you? He certainly has more value as a malleable 15 year old pre-tortured than he ever did as a person of interest.

Why is it that you want less than one degree of separation between us and what you deem subhuman? Doesn't that make you the least bit uncomfortable?

If someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they weren't a terrorist and never will be, then I wouldn't mind releasing them provided they were tagged like a humpback whale...

So then you don't oppose Habeas Corpus for detainees?

Make up your mind on what flavor you like your torture Rob...nobody likes a flip flopping Mengele.

"If someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they weren't a terrorist and never will be"
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Don't we need courts to determine that?

"then I wouldn't mind releasing them provided they were tagged like a humpback whale..."

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

that's not gonna incentivize anyone to become a terrorist if they never were in the first place.

"but in it they had a secret prison on what looked like an offshore oil rig... "
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Does Goatman have anything to share with us?

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-07-16 10:16 AM

Unless it's about getting his ankles pinned behind his ears on his imaginary oil rig, I would say no.

So then you don't oppose Habeas Corpus for detainees?

Military tribunals are just fine...

nobody likes a flip flopping Mengele.

Mengele... you're a fucking retard.

He killed a guy Rob, fine. Put him in prison.

He is in prison.

Why are we torturing him?

How do you know we are?

He was 15 years old for Christ's sake.

So what? He was old enough to kill one of our soldiers... His age didn't stop him from fighting, his age should stop us from punishing him.

He has zero value for interrogation,

That's your opinion... maybe he'd be good practice for training interrogaters.

so put him in prison and throw away the key

He is and we pretty much have.

What is the point of torturing him?

And again, you don't we are... This is someone who joined up with a terrorist organization and killed an American. You can have all the sympathy you want for him, but I say fuck him... fuck his family...

A Federal Appeals Court ruled yesterday that civilians in America can be arrested and held indefinitely without charge unless they can prove they're not a terrorist. The burden of proof is on the arrestee. The government can withhold any and all evidence they possess that could convict or exonerate the accused of the terrorism accusations thus allowing a criminal proceeding with Habeus Corpus.

In America.

Jeez, AU. We'll never have the high ground again.

maybe he'd be good practice for training interrogaters.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Ugh... I think you mean desensitizing interrogators.

So anyone pleading Help me Help me immediatly gets released from detention.

Only if he sobs.

Does Goatman have anything to share with us?

Wouldn't work on my oil rig. The sea water distillers wouldn't keep up with the waterboarding.

The sea water distillers wouldn't keep up with the waterboarding.

Posted by goatman

LOL.

FF

Mengele... you're a fucking retard.

Come on Rob, don't be such a pussy. You support torture of those you deem subhuman. It's ok.

Come on Rob, don't be such a pussy. You support torture of those you deem subhuman. It's ok.

Posted by IraqiBukkake

You know what dickbag, I'm just not going to engage with someone who throws around the Nazi references, because you're just fucking stupid. You have no concept of what the Nazis and Mengele did to millions of people. You're just some fruity ass liberal who likes to throw nazi references around because you want to seem like some great humanitarian, but in reality you're just a tool.

Shut fhe fuck up, Rob!

So, you had an uncle who voluntarily entered a Sauna and then bitched because it was a couple of degrees Fahrenheit too hot?!?!?!

If he would have been tougher he would have embraced the heat.

Seriously, Eskimos are exremely jealous of his experience!

It's amazing how many of you use his torture as a talking point. Where's the proof of that? Is it because an enemy combatant who murdered an American solidier said so? Pull your heads out of your collective ass.

How do you know we are?

He said he was. But that doesn't count of course...

I think I'm finally starting to understand. We are torturing you to get information to use, but when that information includes that you've been tortured, we don't believe you. Perhaps we could torture him to admit that he hasn't been tortured? It's like a mobius strip of torture.

So what? He was old enough to kill one of our soldiers... His age didn't stop him from fighting, his age should stop us from punishing him.

So try him and find him guilty. Should be a piece of cake. Unless you don't have evidence, then you hold him indefinitely until someone finds out, then give him a trial where he is guilty until proven innocent.

You can have all the sympathy you want for him, but I say fuck him... fuck his family...

Where is this sympathy strawman you've made up and knocked down? I reread my posts, and I don't see where I was being sympathetic. Unless due process is somehow sympathy in your twisted world view.

This kid deseves what he gets. FUCK HIM... Big bad crying terorist... BOO HOO.......

Poor baby. why he could have had his frigging head blown off but instead was captured. This misunderstood boy was questioned at length without a nap time.

What does he want, the keys to a Hummer and enough money to go on a date? He was caught throwing a grenade at American troops, an act the resulted in a death. He should be treated like any prisoner of was and no better. Prisoner are normally kept until the end of hostilities or an arranged swap. My understanding is that the war is still dragging on and no prisoner swaps are planned.

Be a quiet little POW and play volley ball, eat better than you ever have and enjoy better medical care than millions of home grown Americans.

It's like a mobius strip of torture.

Posted by IraqiBukkake
Funniest thing I've heard here all month.

You know, when they took him, they fucked up.

"Two to the chest, one to the head ,
knocks them down down, keeps them dead."

Some folks need retrained.

I'm for sending em all back.
Two pound of c4,GPS/remote detonator stuffed in their guts.
Track em to their buddies with a drone.
"Suicide Bomber" American style.

Does his country want him back?
Some apparently don't.

You know what dickbag, I'm just not going to engage with someone who throws around the Nazi references, because you're just fucking stupid. You have no concept of what the Nazis and Mengele did to millions of people. You're just some fruity ass liberal who likes to throw nazi references around because you want to seem like some great humanitarian, but in reality you're just a tool.

I am Rob the Tear Duct, and I approve this message.

Fruity ass liberal...heh. Leave it to you Rob to turn torture into some left vs. right issue. Take a look at my post history. I know you don't take a position until you assess WWDD. (What Would Dubya Do?) I, on the other hand, am an equal opportunity offender.

"Why is this kid in a secret prison being tortured?"

Hardly torture, and hardly secret, but lets get to some facts. From reading the book below, I discovered, unfortunately he was exposed to OBL, and alQaeda's elite. His family (father in particular) brought him up in this environment. Its possible he has been be able to piece together the pecking order and help with identification of those individuals, to stop future 9/11's. Perhaps as part of his trial he would be given special consideration for information given, you know... a deal.

We won't be swapping prisoners.

Terrorists have 0 (zero) prisoners
in their posession. Imagine that -
no Americans being served ethnically
correct meals and no taxpayer lawyers
for American non-existent prisoners.

Captured Americans are tortured (really
tortured) then they are murdered.

You libreals are ONCE AGAIN displaying
compassion to the WRONG SIDE. Pussies!

Secret prisons what a great idea! Maybe one day our kids can know the joys of a secret prison when they are in the wrong place wrong time! What fun it will be no record of arrest no record of incarceration; they'll just be gone!

Tell me please, WHY DID WE FIGHT WWII? WHY DID WE "FIGHT" THE COLD WAR?

FFS

ok
war prisoners are war prisoners
and i'm not saying release or not to release

but

statements like this

"Is it because an enemy combatant who murdered an American solidier "

are stupid

america invaded HIS country. he was fighting back.

the soldier died durring war
its not murder

its war

if its murder
how many people did the american soldiers "murder"

exactly

stop saying stupid things
and stick to the facts

and rob
if we let him go back to his country
its far from living a "normal" life as you and i know

its afghanistan
it sux.
its like being in prison

"
We won't be swapping prisoners.

Terrorists have 0 (zero) prisoners
in their posession. Imagine that -
no Americans being served ethnically
correct meals and no taxpayer lawyers
for American non-existent prisoners.

Captured Americans are tortured (really
tortured) then they are murdered.

You libreals are ONCE AGAIN displaying
compassion to the WRONG SIDE. Pussies!

"

are you saying we should sink to terrorist levels?

or one step above

if you believe we are the greatest country in the world
then lets act like the greatest country

not a "if they do it, so can we"
childish crap

"america invaded HIS country. he was fighting back."

What??? We invaded CANADA???? How come I missed this trip? Damn it, I always go places that are sandy, hot and beer free...not to mention that the Canadian babes are smokin hot...

Trooper missed the memo from Ann Coulter to invade Canada..;o)

Cry me a river. He killed an American soldier and attempted it to be more with his grenade lobbying.

And when he was apprehended he got roughed up in the process--continuing to fight off the soldiers.

What friggin torture?

He should have been killed on the spot--but they captured him--since he looked like a teenager.

They should have done the Kerry thing and just shot him in the back.

They should have done the Kerry thing and just shot him in the back.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-07-16 03:26 PM

Ankles UP! Dumbass.

Itsey bitsey--go check yourself--idiot!

Wipe your mouth--there's some bullshit around your lips.

"They should have done the Kerry thing and just shot him in the back.

Posted by MURPHY"

Another fine example of Christian compassion. Oh wait... he's a brown boy, and a Muslim to boot so f' him!

You are a complete and utter disgrace.

he's a brown boy, and a Muslim to boot so f' him!

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-16 03:39 PM | Reply

No, more like "He killed an American, fuck him".
I can see why you'd be all for not shooting him though...

in any case, the double standard continues:

an iraqi killing a u.s. soldier is a terrorist, a u.s. soldier killing an iraqi civilian is...a soldier.

Welcome to fantasy land, aka the neocon agenda.

Ankles UP! Dumbass.

Posted by itsme at 2008-07-16 03:34 PM | Reply |

She's been at it so much lately that rcade should just add a special flag for her.

Chairborne, did he in fact kill an American? I don't know much about the evidence against him. But if he did, then let's bring him to trial for the appropriate charges. I don't like the idea of a 15 year old being held indefinitely on unproven charges, regardless how heinous those charges.

"No, more like 'He killed an American, fuck him'."

I'm reasonably sure he is only accused of killing an American. And no one saw him throw the grenade.

However, I don't really expect anything better from you because you, well, you. I just thought Ms. Christian Charity would be a bit less barbaric.

Silly me.

"I can see why you'd be all for not shooting him though..."

Oh, and just for the record, I'm against shooting anybody that hasn't been proven guilty of anything.

Oh, and just for the record, I'm against shooting anybody that hasn't been proven guilty of anything.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-16 03:54 PM | Reply

That would be tough on the battlefield Sally.

"That would be tough on the battlefield Sally.

Posted by 101Chairborne"

Dumbass Response of the Day Flag

Dumbass Response of the Day Flag

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-16 04:03 PM | Reply

Interesting Sally. I was actually thinking your response about shooting somebody before being proven guilty was pretty fucking stupid given the circumstances.
You realize he was captured by american forces after a 4 hour firefight (sounds like a battlefield to me dummy) don't you?

Holy shit you're stupid.

Being called stupid by the likes of you just doesn't really pack the wallop you envision in your own mind.

"You realize he was captured by american forces after a 4 hour..."

I'm not familiar with the UMCJ section that says its OK to shoot someone you just captured in battle in the back. But since you're such an all-knowling, macho military type guy, you must be right.

I'm not familiar with the UMCJ section that says its OK to shoot someone you just captured in battle in the back. But since you're such an all-knowling, macho military type guy, you must be right.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-16 04:19 PM | Reply

Sally,
Maybe your limpwrists can scroll up and find where I advocated capturing him? Or even Murphy for that matter?

You're too dumb to follow along aren't you?
"Kill him on the spot" means just that.

Like a typical woman, you can't keep your emotions from getting in the way.

Scamper off.

"You're too dumb to follow along aren't you?"

Again, dear 101, your insults have impact only in your own mind.

Sorry you are unable to distinguish between emotions and ethics. Sorry, but not particularly surprised.

The whole taking prisoners thing in the heat of battle is a bit dicey. Lot of confusion, noise and andrenalin pumping. One wrong move on anyones part and you have an "Oh shit" moment. If you haven't been there, it is difficult to really imagine...

send him back to bagram and let our allies there try him

Sorry you are unable to distinguish between emotions and ethics. Sorry, but not particularly surprised.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-16 04:34 PM | Reply

You rolled over awfully quick there Sally. Hey, at least you realized you were arguing against something nobody said and had enough sense to bail.

Wanting to follow the constitution and habeas corpus does not equal "sympathy for terrorists"

Why don't you right wingers get that?

I didn't roll over, especially not for you. You're the one who went away for 2 hours, then thought maybe I wouldn't still be around.

What a lame act. He pulls his shirt down and shows his bruiseless skin, saying ouh my shoulder, and "I don't have eyes or feet"?? WTF how stupid does his act have to get for some to see it for what it is, an act?

How did he feel when he killed the GI, was he crying for his moma saying help me, help me, help me? or was he screaming allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar???

He's obviously well fed, if he doesn't care to eat. Many here scream torture, yet even the canadians aren't buying the BS. It's obvious most of the dr left will never convict any terrorist caught by the US army, irregardless of their guilt. You should be ashamed of your spinelss guilt complex. THEY are the enemy, wake up!

Out of 90,000 caught 200 or so were sent to gitmo, the worst of the worst....

Yeah, that work, dinner, and family some times have a way of keeping me away from showing you what a retard you were.

You didn't roll over? Well I sure don't see where you addressed the whole "capture and shoot in the back" strawman you created.
So, let's pick up where we left off Sally: Show me where I (or Murphy) suggested this mutt should have been captured and then shot in the back.

I'll wait patiently while you attempt to make a deflection.

This ought to be funny...

"THEY are the enemy, wake up!"
-----------------

Hey DTW, ya got THAT right Bub!

Libs LOVE the enemies of the god ole USofA. I thank God for the GWB administration!

FACT!

"It's obvious most of the dr left will never convict any terrorist caught by the US army, irregardless of their guilt."

I'd be more than happy to vote to convict if proven guilty. I'd even consider the death penalty. But some of us have concerns that extend beyond pure rage and vengeance and see the larger picture.

Nobody even saw this kid throw a grenade. He was just the only one who survived (barely) the assault on the house. Maybe he did it, I don't know. But let the case be tried and proven.

I didn't create a straw man, 101. I was addressing Murphy's point that they should have just shot the kid in the back, and asking her exactly how she reconciled that with her oft professed Christianity.

You agree with her, I don't. Simple enough for even your tunnel vision to encompass?

Start at 326pm and work down from there. I'm going to go enjoy the evening with family. I'll rub your nose in it tomorrow if I get the chance.

Tell me, should Kerry have given the teenager he shot in the back a trial too SanAnne?

I have no problem giving convicted soldiers not in uniform jail for a LONG, LONG, time.

The WSJ had an article today saying the war and the surge has really humiltaed IQ in irag. Remember alzari with his call to arms, saying this was their most important fight? If we do things right, AQ AND Iran's image will be diminished.

"Tell me, should Kerry have given the teenager he shot in the back a trial too"

Well, since that never happened I guess it doesn't matter what my opinion on that is.

"I'll rub your nose in it tomorrow if I get the chance."

Ah yes, the blustering, bloviating, bullying and bullshitting = victory posturing.

I didn't create a straw man, 101. I was addressing Murphy's point that they should have just shot the kid in the back, and asking her exactly how she reconciled that with her oft professed Christianity.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-16 06:51 PM | Reply

Yeah I may have bought that had her post not made it crystal clear that she didn't think he should have been captured.
I may even had bought the shit you were trying to sell if you didn't literally type "I'm not familiar with the UMCJ section that says its OK to shoot someone you just captured in battle in the back." seeing as though you made that up.

The context was that they shouldn't have taken him captive. Had you been able to comprehend, you'd have known that. Had you known the kid was on the active battleground you also wouldn't have been stupid enough to talk about "innocent until proven guilty". He was working on landmines just prior to the assault on the house.

Nice try though dummy.

"Yeah I may have bought that had her post not made it crystal clear that she didn't think he should have been captured."

The original point, before you entered the scene, had nothing to do with whether or not she, or anyone else thought he should have been captured at all. The point was about her advocating he should have just been shot in the back.

But the subject is really whether or not detainees like this kid can or should be held forever without being charged or tried. Murphy just spiced it up a bit with her little Christian compassion.

By the way, I don't believe Ms. Murphy's post actually specified if shooting him in the back should be in lieu of, or in addition to, capture. FWIW

"THEY are the enemy, wake up!"
-----------------

Hey DTW, ya got THAT right Bub!

Libs LOVE the enemies of the god ole USofA. I thank God for the GWB administration!

FACT!

Posted by James_Dean at 2008-07-16 06:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is the average American voter. Thinks only in black and white terms.

God help us.

"By the way, I don't believe Ms. Murphy's post actually specified if shooting him in the back should be in lieu of, or in addition to, capture."

I will take that back. Her prior sentence does indicate they should have shot him instead of capturing him.

Well, actually they did shoot him 3 times in the chest during the battle, but he didn't die.

Again, the shooters need retrained. An insurance shot to the head always pays off.