Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Matthew Rothschild: It's July 4th again, a day of near-compulsory flag-waving and nation-worshipping. Count me out.

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Its July 4th again, a day of near-compulsory flag-waving and nation-worshipping. Count me out.

Spare me the puerile parades.

Dont play that martial music, white boy.

And dont befoul natures sky with your F-16s.

You see, I dont believe in patriotism.

Its not that Im anti-American, but I am anti-patriotic.

Love of country isnt natural. Its not something youre born with. Its an inculcated kind of love, something that is foisted upon you in the home, in the school, on TV, at church, during the football game.

Yet most people accept it without inspection.

Why?

For when you stop to think about it, patriotism (especially in its malignant morph, nationalism) has done more to stack the corpses millions high in the last 300 years than any other factor, including the prodigious slayer, religion.

Forgot to put that excerpt in quotes.

"Forgot to put that excerpt in quotes."

Don't matter...yer goin' straight to hell along wif th' author...ya damn 'murika hatin', commie bastard.

"That's why I'm not voting for Obama, he won't wear the flag pin. And he's a nigger"

-Cookfish.

The illustrated man shows his patriotism.

seattlepi.nwsource.com

"For when you stop to think about it, patriotism (especially in its malignant morph, nationalism) has done more to stack the corpses millions high in the last 300 years than any other factor, including the prodigious slayer, religion."

Your basic statement is that there is a high correlation between 300 million deaths, and nationalism.

This then would be the anti-thesis of government involvment in peoples lives, corporations, and the nationalization, of any industry. Nationalism, by definition is a form of stating the world should be ordered around the nation. Therefore any activity which contributes to the size, and dependency upon nation and the government in particular, by its very definition creates more nationalism.

Thus you could easily conclude that any taxation, nationalization of industry would be moving closer to the 300 million deaths noted in the arguement.

I doubt this is your political perspective, your just trying to be politically chic and cool. Which really shows you have some cognitive dissonance to resolve.

Gosh, Rothschild and his acolytes are not patriotic because ... they lack sufficient oxytocin and so cannot bond as normal people do, so he and they are alienated and isolated from having emotions they cannot share because of their impediments, and which they therefore do not understand.

That's okay Rothschild, you and your ilk don't need to demonstrate any thankfulness for the protections and bounties that this great country has bestowed upon you. Ingratitude becomes you, ingrate. We understand the shortcomings that beset you as the deprived emotional freak that you are.

"I doubt this is your political perspective, your just trying to be politically chic and cool. Which really shows you have some cognitive dissonance to resolve."

Stuff a falafel in it, Andrea. Condescend to someone else.

Trying to equate "nationalism" with nationalizing an industry is comparing apples to oranges. By that logic any and all government policies are "nationalistic."

"We understand the shortcomings that beset you as the deprived emotional freak that you are.

Posted by Johnson"

Talk about freaks, there's the white-supremacist Drudge psycho bloviating as usual.

I hate following Johnson,but i got to say it.

I don't care nullifidian if you are patriotic or not, it is your right, bought and sold in the blood of our brother soldiers who died for you to have that right.

Sleep tight sleep well.

rwd

Man is the only Patriot. He sets himself apart in his own country, under his own flag, and sneers at the other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries, and keep them from grabbing slices of his. And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood of his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"- with his mouth.

--Mark Twain

we have no rights, we have priveledges (sp?)

I hate rethugs

"That's why I'm not voting for Obama, he won't wear the flag pin. And he's a nigger"


-Cookfish.

Ha! Dance for me, monkey! Sad that the only one of us that ever used that 'N-word' is you. Shows your lack of creative ability, non?

"... a day of near-compulsory flag-waving and nation-worshipping. Count me out."

Translation: I couldn't get a date, so I stayed home and blogged all day, alone. Quality time with the computer

Just now opened my front door and a nice warm wind was blowing strong.
My U.S. flag, put up for the 4th of July, hangs from a pole in the flagholder nailed into one of the porch posts. The flag was completely unfurled as it flew in the wind. A beautiful sight to see as the sun gets lower now in the West.

I love articles like this, and the comments that follow. I need reminding, from time to time, of the douchebaggery that exists in such volumes on the despicable, hateful left.

They're embarrassed of their country. And, speaking on behalf of my country, we're embarrassed because of you. Turds.

" I need reminding, from time to time, of the douchebaggery that exists in such volumes on the despicable, hateful left."

Lot of name calling there, but no rebuttal of the points made. Typical.

I never truly understood the derision for patriotism from the left.

Anytime someone on the left gets called on it, they tend to sputter on about how disagreeing with your government is the highest form of patriotism (a Thomas Paine quote usually follows)..

Yet when a day is set aside to celebrate it, they seem disgusted by the "compulsory flag waving and nation worshiping"....

No-one says you have to go fly a flag, slap on a shit-eating grin and BBQwith the kiddies. Why not take the day and watch some historical documentaries, read that Sam Adams Biography, find some of the things in America you are proud of and celebrate it.

Love of country isnt natural.
And if you have nothing invested you have no reason to try and change it. It's real easy to be aloof and spout rhetoric that is "their" problem...

Whether by fate or direction you are part of the geo-political entity that is America, articles like this smack of a teenage "non-conformist" who hates his parents and doesn't wanna be seen riding in the minivan....

Grow up ya little shit....

Go bloviate somewhere else.....

Go bloviate somewhere else.....

Posted by frankf55 at 2008-07-05 08:47 PM

You first..

oh and nanny nanny boo boo..

etc etc

Rothschild? This comes as no surprise as his linage is one of the strongest around for the one world goverment. No national boarders ect. The idea being that removeing the identity of the nations the wars of the worlds will stop and the ruleing class will have lots of minions to do their bidding. He is a spoiled rotten brat whom never had to put in a honest days work, the likes of which are a blite on the face of humanity..



"For when you stop to think about it, patriotism (especially in its malignant morph, nationalism) has done more to stack the corpses millions high in the last 300 years than any other factor, including the prodigious slayer, religion."


Your basic statement is that there is a high correlation between 300 million deaths, and nationalism.


This then would be the anti-thesis of government involvment in peoples lives, corporations, and the nationalization, of any industry. Nationalism, by definition is a form of stating the world should be ordered around the nation. Therefore any activity which contributes to the size, and dependency upon nation and the government in particular, by its very definition creates more nationalism.


Thus you could easily conclude that any taxation, nationalization of industry would be moving closer to the 300 million deaths noted in the arguement.


I doubt this is your political perspective, your just trying to be politically chic and cool. Which really shows you have some cognitive dissonance to resolve.

Posted by AndreaMackris


Bud, if you are going to enter deep water, be sure that you can swim. This analysis pseudo-intellectual and barely understandable.

And your placement of, commas, is lame, too.



Just now opened my front door and a nice warm wind was blowing strong.
My U.S. flag, put up for the 4th of July, hangs from a pole in the flagholder nailed into one of the porch posts. The flag was completely unfurled as it flew in the wind. A beautiful sight to see as the sun gets lower now in the West.

Posted by CalifChris


Nice image. I fly the flag, too, but let's not pretend that there is no point here. We're Americans due to a fortunate accident of birth, and extreme patriotism can lead to the sort of blind loyalty that allows people to be more loyal to an individual leader (especially one who wraps himself in the flag) than to the underlying principles that that flag supposedly represents.

Although I fly the flag, I think the Pledge is lame, and anyone who thinks that kids in school say it is a fool, and probably voted for Bush twice (sorry about the redundacy there). Many of them don't even know it.

"warm wind was blowing"

Warm winds blowing
Heating blue sky
And a road that goes forever

Been thinking 'bout it lately
Been watching some tv
Been looking all around me
At what has come to be
Been talking to my neighbour
And he agrees with me
It's all gone crazy

Well my wife returns from taking
My little girl to school
She's got beads of perspiration
As she tries to keep her cool
She says that mess it don't get no better
There's gonna come a day
Someone's gonna get killed out there
And i turn to her and say texas
She says what?
I said texas
She says what?
They've got big long road out there

Warm winds blowing
Heating blue sky
And a road that goes forever
I'm going to texas

We got to get out of here
We got to get out of here

Well i got a little brother
Several meters high
Yea his built just like a quarterback
And he swears he'll testify
He says he's been to texas
And that's the only place to be
Big stakes, big girls, no trouble there
That's the place for me

I'm going to texas
I'm going to texas
Watch me walking
Watch me walking

-Chris Rea

I wonder if Mr. Rothschild feels the same way about Israel.

It is stuff like this that gives the anti-Semites ammunition. I hear it now, "Jews are just parasites living on the body politic of their host nations".

Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest.

--Mark Twain

Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another.

--Ambrose Bierce

"Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel."

0bama is proof of the truth of that little Mark Twain gem.



"Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel."


0bama is proof of the truth of that little Mark Twain gem.

Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch


Whatever that means.

home.comcast.net

We as a people have not evolved enough to appreaciate the ideals expressed in this article.

It will undoubtedly be met with more "patriotic" bumper sticker slogans,

PS: Matthew Rosthschild is white.

www.thedailypage.com

And when money talks for the very last time
And nobody walks a step behind
When theres only one race and thats mankind
Then we shall be free

G.B.

We as a people have not evolved enough to appreaciate the ideals expressed in this article.

It will undoubtedly be met with more "patriotic" bumper sticker slogans,

Posted by fresno500 at 2008-07-05 10:34 PM |

ahh.. the "you just don't understand" argument.

Deep man..deep...

The fact is the article less attacks "patriotism" and more attacks the political direction the US is/has taken.

To take the tact that patriotism is merely some blind loyalty to country then rage against it is neither original or brave. It's nothing more then a hack maneuver to garner attention for being a "rebel".

Rage on my brother, rage on...don't let the man keep you down..

"Rothschild? This comes as no surprise as his linage is one of the strongest around for the one world goverment."

And just what lineage is that?

"To take the tact that patriotism is merely some blind loyalty to country then rage against it is neither original or brave."

Doesn't have to be original. An honest look at history speaks for itself. Patriotism is nothing more than tribalism.

This Rithchild guy has issues, does he just say this to stir up emotions or is he just so hateful he wants to share it with everyone. I don't understand why people like him contiunue to prosper here and why if it is so bad, he doesn't find a place he likes better.

Hey idiot HillBJ, learn to read. Fuck your stupid. The guy is saying he is NOT anti-American. He is saying he is anti-mindless patriotism. Something you douches on the right wing have trouble comprehending. Which is why fucktards like you are always out looking for people to kill be it in Iraq or on deathrow. God, I can't stand all you dumbass pussy shit righties.

Doesn't have to be original. An honest look at history speaks for itself. Patriotism is nothing more than tribalism.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-07-06 12:05 AM |

The funny thing is your assumption of tribalism as some sort of defacto evil. As if you've somehow "evolved" past such petty things.

Yet daily you participate in "me Democrat good/you Republican bad" discussions using the same tribal mindset.

Tell me when you've decided to stop warring with the conservative tribe and I'll be able to take you seriously.

God, I can't stand all you dumbass pussy shit righties.

Posted by moder8 at 2008-07-06 12:41 AM

mindless partisanship is much more evolved then mindless patriotism I see..

Fuck your stupid.
Posted by moder8

Fuck your stupid what?

OK, I walked into that one TFD. Fuck YOU'RE stupid.

"Yet daily you participate in "me Democrat good/you Republican bad" discussions using the same tribal mindset."

No, I engage in good public policy/bad public policy discussions.

What a joke. Since when did the right ever give a damn about racism? Only people on the right have ever suggested the internment of Muslims in response to terrorist attacks.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-07-05 05:22 PM

Lincoln fucked up. He should've let those rednecks secede. This country would be a lot better today.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-07-05 04:42 PM

I realize a shithead like you can't distinguish between Japanese-Americans and the citizens of the country of Japan. Rightwingers have a difficult time thinking of other ethnic groups as being "real" Americans.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-07-05 02:34 AM

No, Rob. Democrats can do whatever they want, and libs just cheer wildly."


Unlike dittoheads and Bush cultists.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-07-05 01:23 AM


Your slip is showing Nulli. You've chosen your tribe and do your best to demonize the "other" tribe.

If "tribal" differences meant ideological differences you might have a point. But if you were honest you would admit that we're talking about the tribes we are born in, in this case, the nation states.

If "tribal" differences meant ideological differences you might have a point. But if you were honest you would admit that we're talking about the tribes we are born in, in this case, the nation states.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-07-06 02:13 AM

2 sides of the same coin imo. It's simply a matter of attaching oneself to a group, no more anthropologically complex then that.

You define your's through ideologies, people also do it through their leisure activities, their sexuality, and their nationality. Its all about being a part of a group and not a part of "theirs".

To be proud of said group is nothing asinine or new.
To pretend that the culture and ideologies inherent in "being American" are no different then the culture and ideologies of "being German" is more dishonest.

There is a uniqueness and shared history to each nation and to be proud of it isn't something to be scornful of. To be blindly accepting of whatever a government does is not patriotism, and trying to define it as such is what makes this article hack.

An obvious brat. Do people honstly read his crap?

My God, a thick novel of spew - way too much to tolerate!

True patriots have made it possible for reprobate ingrates such as this to spread such crap. Does anyone honestly think that the islamic fundamentalists murderous bastards are actually innocent? My God we have some screwed up people in our midst!

. . . perhaps he eats too much tofu.

MWM-
On the day after Independence Day you are telling me that my choice is to side with the terrorists or shut the fuck up.

No Deal.

4 posts in a row. Is a petulant twat trolling for attention?

"True patriots have made it possible for reprobate ingrates such as this to spread such crap. Does anyone honestly think that the islamic fundamentalists murderous bastards are actually innocent? My God we have some screwed up people in our midst!

Posted by MWMfatherof4"

True Patriots made it possible for ALL of us to use our First Amendment rights, and not just people you agree with, so deal with it. Secondly, nobody except YOU said anything about islamic fundamentalists. I see Rush and Hannity have their lapdogs trained well.

The screwed up ones are those who can't see past their own shortsighted wants and needs and don't realize that they've sold out their founding father's blood, sweat, and tears for the illusion of security. The screwed up ones are those who HAD to have known in their hearts another 4 years of Bush leadership would lead us further down the wrong path but couldn't stomach having someone who thought or acted differently than them leading us back in the right direction. If you voted for a second term under Bush you, YOU are the ones betraying freedom and liberty, NOT the ones who have the courage to speak up against the wrong that is this administration.

Thankfully the leadership you tools voted into power will lose power shortly, and you'll get to see what TRUE Patriots do with the power gifted to them by their founding fathers.

"There is a uniqueness and shared history to each nation and to be proud of it isn't something to be scornful of."

Isn't anything to be proud of, either, since whatever tribe one is born into is a roll of the dice.

"God does not play dice with the universe." Albert Einstein



Top 5 quotes from Albert Einstein

"Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
"Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as [Gandhi] ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth."
"In the middle of every difficulty lies opportunity."
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Bani wrote: " . . . nobody except YOU said anything about islamic fundamentalists." Read the article. It references our current conflict. Newsflash - we are combating islamofacists.

Bani also wrote: "Thankfully the leadership you tools voted into power will lose power shortly, and you'll get to see what TRUE Patriots do with the power gifted to them by their founding fathers." I just hope an Obama Presidency will be much better that the peanut farmer.


MWMfatherof4 is making up stuff that I "wrote" after being here in DR a week?

What kind of crazy is that?


Pokarekare Ana

www.youtube.com

When Americans retort that this is still the greatest country in the world, I have to ask why.--

 Religious Freedom Try that in some of the middle-eastern countries you are so concerned about.
 Free Speech Much on the left have a difficult time with this one. This is why the Fairness Doctrine continues to be brought up by the Dems. President Reagan shelved it. As a result the left does not have a forced audience anymore. Try offering an opposing view on a leftist blog such as Dem Undergrnd. Unlike Drudge, they cant tolerate free speech.
 Free Enterprise - has resulted in the greatest economy in the world. The left continues to screech that we are in depression. Hell we are not even in recession! Yes it has stumbled.
 The US Military - is comprised of the truest patriots, those who would dare make the ultimate sacrifice for liberty.

America is the greatest nation, in spite of the left but I would not have it any other way. Sometimes we need to question what we do. More often than not they validate what we do.

I apologize Bani! DDENTON wrote what I attributed to you.

The long bloody barbarous history of the nation-state should serve as a warning that enemy Americans have most to fear from is their own government. Knowing the inherent dangers of centralized power, the Founders tried to design a system of government that would disperse power. Sadly, the experiment in a Republican form of government has failed.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

America is the greatest nation, in spite of the left but I would not have it any other way. Sometimes we need to question what we do. More often than not they validate what we do.

Posted by MWMfatherof4


They had help:>)


The Rise of the Jewish Empire in North America by Bob Finch

groups.google.com

"America is the greatest nation,"

MOst arrogant yes, greatest???
Only if you ask an American.

The funny thing is your assumption of tribalism as some sort of defacto evil. As if you've somehow "evolved" past such petty things.

Yet daily you participate in "me Democrat good/you Republican bad" discussions using the same tribal mindset.

Tell me when you've decided to stop warring with the conservative tribe and I'll be able to take you seriously.

Posted by GustoGus

that is what I find so hypocritical and hilarious about the whole article and the pseudo intellectuals that support the article..

Its the you fuckers aren't evolved enough to think for yourselves because you have a smidgen of pride of your ancestors that helped establish a republic during a time of monarchy..Little do the snobbish realize its a simply a time to recognize sacrifice and reflect on all this country has endured and what we wish to become.

No, I engage in good public policy/bad public policy discussions.

Posted by nullifidian

yeah right..

BTW the author is a douche and takes many of the precepts unrelated to patriotism that are characteristic of American policy and make them the foundation of why we suck.

I am not a flag waving, 'merica or leave it dipshit. I do believe in honoring the sacrifice of throwing off the shackles of monarchy,slavery,pure unadulterated capitalism and hopefully modern imperialism to push forward as a nation to show the world why the ideals of liberty and justice are still alive.

Independence day should be celebrated as a memorial to the past sacrifice and to the ever evolving change we are capable of as a collective nation.

We can inspire and lead but like all humans we step off the path from time to time.

This American is very thankful for our true patriots - those who make political and military sacrifices for our protection. I don't think the greatness of America is up for a vote at the U.N. - what a joke!

Well, I'm pretty sure I was a northern Banker during the Civil War working for Belmont & Sherman ~ Rothschild agents here in America a few past lives ago:>)

God, I can't stand all you dumbass pussy shit righties.

Posted by moder8

Tolerance is too hard for you. At least you can admit your shortcomings along with your incredible childish rants.

Yeah what Moder8 said.

Larry

"Its the you fuckers aren't evolved enough to think for yourselves because you have a smidgen of pride of your ancestors that helped establish a republic during a time of monarchy."

If you want to take pride in the accomplishments of others in a country you are a citizen of due only to an accident of birth go ahead. It is you goosestepping flag wavers that haven't evolved much beyond the most primitive, warring tribes.

If the human race ever destroys itself in a catastrophic war, the blood will be on the hands of so-called patriots.

A patriot is a right wing version of a socialist. You wanted a paternalistic government, now suffer for it. LOL!

"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."
William Samuel Johnson

You are very confused, Ray. You're comparing apples to oranges. Patriotism has nothing to do with any specific economic policy. The most nationalistic types, the ones that scream about the UN and world government infringing on national sovereignty, tend to be rightwingers like your friends in the John Birch Society.

It's no surprise, either, that the most extreme patriots combine nationalism with "racial" pride, which is a just another side of the tribalist coin.

Patriotism has nothing to do with any specific economic policy.

Like hell it doesn't. Socialism is founded on the same tribalist mentality that necessitate a strong central government. You've been deluding yourself into thinking they are.

Correction

You've been deluding yourself into thinking they are inseparable.

It must be the heat. MY A/C broke down. Correction again.

You've been deluding yourself into thinking they are separable.

You're a fool, Ray. Patriotism and nationalism cuts across economic ideologies. You're just as likely, perhaps more likely, to find a flag waving patriot in capitalist America as in socialist Sweden.

Not so in this country. War has been the most effective means of expanding State control over civil matters. The popularity of welfare expands control over the economic matters. The first appeals to personal safety; the other appeals to economic safety. You're living in the wrong country.

""He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

--Albert Einstein

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."

--Albert Einstein

"A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims."
Ayn Rand

"Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives."
Ayn Rand

"Government "help" to business is just as disastrous as government persecution... the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off."
Ayn Rand

Most prophetic of all.

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
Ayn Rand

Big business is America's oppressed minority.

--Ayn Rand

Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).

Ayn Rand

Ayn Rands philosophy-- is nearly perfect in its immorality,

--Gore Vidal

Something of this implication is fixed in the book's [Atlas Shrugged] dictatorial tone, which is much its most striking feature. Out of a lifetime of reading, I can recall no other book in which a tone of overriding arrogance was so implacably sustained. Its shrillness is without reprieve. Its dogmatism is without appeal. In addition, the mind, which finds this one natural to it, shares other characteristics of its type. 1) It consistently mistakes raw force for strength, and the rawer the force, the more reverent the posture of the mind before it. 2) It supposes itself to be the bringer of a final revelation. Therefore, resistance to the Message cannot be tolerated because disagreement can never be merely honest, prudent or just humanly fallible. Dissent from revelation so final (because, the author would say, so reasonable) can only be willfully wicked. There are ways of dealing with such wickedness, and, in fact, right reason itself enjoins them. From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: " To the gas chambers go!"

--Whittaker Chambers

The Abridged Atlas Shrugged


"It sure is hard to find good men now-a-days. I wonder what the hell is going on," Dagny smirked to herself as she entered the towering monolith to capitalism that was the headquarters of Taggart Transcontinental. "There are so few men like Hank Rearden, the man who single handedly invented a new greenish tint metal that is far stronger than steel," she said bursting in on her brother. "There are too many like you, Jim," she mocked.

"Well, if that's the case, you so-not-a-woman-and-I-can't-
believe-a-woman-wrote-this, why don't you go redeem yourself by sleeping with him. By being his servile little mistress you'll serve the cause of capitalism far better than you have," Jim mocked.

www.spudworks.com

Ayn Rands philosophy-- is nearly perfect in its immorality,

--Gore Vidal

What is Vidal's definition of immorality?

1) It consistently mistakes raw force for strength, and the rawer the force, the more reverent the posture of the mind before it.

Oh bullshit. Chambers was a statist. Raw force is the domain of the State.

From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: " To the gas chambers go!"

Give me a fucking break with that bullshit!

What is Vidal's definition of immorality?

Posted by Ray

I think it's got something to do with pure, unbounded, self-righteous narcissism.

The Ayn Rand Seal of Approval. It's Rational!

www.saintaardvarkthecarpeted.c
om

I think it's got something to do with pure, unbounded, self-righteous narcissism.

Perfect definition of a socialist. They think they are entitled to the plunder of what individuals produce. Hope you enjoy the collapse of the welfare-warfare State.

"Ayn Rand is the greatest human being who has ever lived. Atlas Shrugged is the greatest human achievement in the history of the world. Ayn Rand, by virtue of her philosophical genius, is the supreme arbiter of any issue pertaining to what is rational, moral, or appropriate to mans life on earth.--

--Alan Greenspan

"Perfect definition of a socialist."

That's funny coming from someone who reads shit like Rand's "The Virture of Selfishness."

Perfect definition of a socialist.
Posted by Ray

Right... it's the SOCIALISTS who only think about themselves.

Thanks for setting me straight.

It's capitalists who focus on the individual, ray.

Socialists focus on the community.

"They think they are entitled to the plunder of what individuals produce. "

Yes, everyday capitalists dream up new ways to rip off the product of workers.

Ayn Rand was certainly one confused; and ultimately stupid woman. She honestly believed that the best minds in mankind, once freed of menial labour, would just spontaneously behave well and for the good of all mankind, and thus should not be limited. According to her, great intellectual minds will, by raw nature, work in tandem for greater goals. Funny, it took me about 10 seconds to think of Edison and Tesla to disprove that. A few more seconds took me to Disney and Fleischer.

She was entirely incapable of perceiving the core selfishness of mankind, while at the same time randomly thinking how to defend against something she didn't seem to think existed. I mean, on one hand she thinks that individual rights are sacrosanct... but then wants to ensure that the government doesn't get in the way of business.

The biggest oppressors of individual rights has pretty much always been the greedy. And where do the greedy end up? That's right, at the head of the same places she thought needed no regulation. Now mind you, it IS good for society at large these people end up there.. because they perform a valuable function. But the same skills and mindset that got them there also prevent them from stopping before it harms others. Unregulated capitalism would turn into corporate-sponsored fascism pretty quickly; because without regulation some small group _will_ end up owning everything eventually. It's all about balance. Go too far into socialism, and that collapses also. Both collapse because neither extreme makes allowances for Greed. And greed is the one force Objectivism seems to think doesn't exist among the truly intelligent.

The entire Rand philosophy is a hilarious exercise in selective blindness and the clear result of someone who's never had to actually deal with being poor. Her family lost a business, but gee golly gosh, she sure never had to starve. She had too much privilege, went through a whole lot of mental gymnastics to come up with a philosophy so laughable it flatout states that there are no conflicts between peoples rational interests in a rational society.

In the end, Objectivism is the philosophical equivalent of jerking off to anime porn. It's pretty sexy on the surface, and if you fool yourself hard enough, it even seems real. But when you get down to it, there's no substance at all and you're getting yourself excited about something that can never be, because of some fundamental differences with _reality_.

......so quit quoting Rand like it backs up some kind of argument, folks. It makes you sound smart but it's really just embarrassing.

That's funny coming from someone who reads shit like Rand's "The Virture of Selfishness."

Define your terms.

There is the selfishness of an individual who feels he deserves the rewards of what he produces, assuming he produces things others value enough to pay for.

And there is the selfishness of the lazy who think they are entitled to what an individual produces, with no compensation.

The first is virtuous. The second is criminal.

Yes, everyday capitalists dream up new ways to rip off the product of workers.

Posted by nullifidian

Holy shit! Doesn't begin to compare to taxes.

"In the end, Objectivism is the philosophical equivalent of jerking off to anime porn."

That's why teenagers love it. At their most selfish, narcissistic period of life, they love a philosophy that tells them their selfishness is actually a virtue.

Socialists focus on the community.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Every where I look I see a community losing homes, jobs and falling into bankruptcy. Capitalism is dead.

State Worship Day is hardly exclusive to America. Ah, times were better when i was a kid and could buy fireworks... Before the nanny state decided that I needed to be protected from myself or some such b#llshit...

The biggest oppressors of individual rights has pretty much always been the greedy.

Is anybody paying attention to the massive waste, opppression and incompetency of the political class?

There is too much bullshit here. I'm going for a swim to clean myself off.

He's not patriotic because he's a querulous ingrate. Thank God, we aren't "forced" to listen to such spew, as we did when the Fairness Doctrine was in force. Thank President Reagan for ending that absurd policy. People like this have some audience, fortunately only a minority.

"There is a uniqueness and shared history to each nation and to be proud of it isn't something to be scornful of."

Isn't anything to be proud of, either, since whatever tribe one is born into is a roll of the dice. -- Nulli

Great topic!

I don't think the real issue is "accident of birth," though. Would you argue that it's inappropriate to be proud of a parent?

Also, would you make the same argument about shame -- i.e., that as U.S. citizens we shouldn't feel ashamed of the Bush Administration's foreign policy?

I think the real problem is when patriotism takes the form of believing that your own country is better than someone else's.

"I don't think the real issue is "accident of birth," though. Would you argue that it's inappropriate to be proud of a parent?"

In general, pride becomes increasingly irrational as one moves from a small circle--loved ones--to larger circles--one's city--to even larger ones--one's nation state. It would seem pretty silly to be proud of the planet.

Hell, why not go one step further, and be proud of the Milky Way, the best galaxy in the Universe! We're No. 1! Milky Way! Milky Way!

Everybody believes that their country is the best because they happened to be born in it.

"There is a uniqueness and shared history to each nation and to be proud of it isn't something to be scornful of."

Isn't anything to be proud of, either, since whatever tribe one is born into is a roll of the dice. -- Nulli

Heh, "you didn't do it so you can't be proud of it".

Last refuge eh nulli?

I'm proud of my family when they do something good. I'm proud of my favorite sports team when they win a championship. I'm proud of these things because they are things I actively choose to involve myself in.
I've chosen to involve myself in my country and its politics since before I turned 18, I've chosen to become a part of "the history" of which I was accidentally born to.
The fact that you can't make this distinction, and would rather sit aloof and reign down contempt speaks volumes.

The other side of that coin?

I feel shame when my country does something idiotic.

Oh, of course you don't feel shame for it either.. You've decided to wall yourself away and simply place blame....

Since you're so fond of quotes, here's a few for ya Nulli...

All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.
--Edmund Burke

A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.

--Mahatma Gandhi

If you're going to be proud of things you had absolutely nothing to do with, why stop with the particular nation state you were born in? Why not pride in the Universe?

In general, pride becomes increasingly irrational as one moves from a small circle... -- Nulli

Rationality is beside the point -- it's just as irrational to be proud of a parent. Not like their accomplishments are yours.

To the extent that pride and shame affect behavior, they can be useful, though -- to motivate people to push for policies they can be proud of, and fight the ones they don't want to be associated with.

[Patriotism] ...is a word which always commemorates a robbery. There isn't a foot of land in the world which doesn't represent the ousting and re-ousting of a longline of successive "owners" who each in turn, as "patriots" with proud swelling hearts defended it against the next gang of "robbers" who came to steal it and did--and became swelling-hearted patriots in their turn.

- Mark Twain

"Rationality is beside the point -- it's just as irrational to be proud of a parent. "

Except for the fact that being proud of a parent doesn't lead to the bloody wars and rivalries that have plagued mankind from the beginning.

Except for the fact that being proud of a parent doesn't lead to the bloody wars and rivalries that have plagued mankind from the beginning. -- Nulli

Being proud of your country doesn't have to, either. Pride and shame, in fact, motivate some of us to actively oppose the war in Iraq.

I think that partly, we're getting into the distinction between pride and arrogance.

"Love of country isnt natural."

Actually, the desire to identify with and belong to a group for the purpose of mutual cooperation and defense is a very core human instinct. We wouldn't died off a long time ago without it.

"We wouldn't died off a long time ago without it."

I was either trying to say we wouldn't be here without it or we would have died off a long time ago without it.......

And 4th of July is a fun holiday. I don't know why people have to shit on it as we have too few holidays as it is. I feel very fortunate to be here rather than say, Somalia. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the people, ideas and actions that have made this country a good place to live. Doesn't bother me that some people don't want to celebrate the holiday but you can stay home without being pretentious about it.

Actually, the desire to identify with and belong to a group for the purpose of mutual cooperation and defense is a very core human instinct.

So is tribal warfare.

Doesn't bother me that some people don't want to celebrate the holiday but you can stay home without being pretentious about it.

The 4th of July commemorates the freedom to be pretentious.


"The 4th of July commemorates the freedom to be pretentious."

Everyone is free to be an asshole. Only assholes think it is their duty to exercise that freedom.



Yes free to be an asshole too. Everybody has one.

"And 4th of July is a fun holiday. I don't know why people have to shit on it as we have too few holidays as it is."

If any day is appropriate to discuss the meaning of patriotism, it's the 4th of July. Of course, the flag idolaters don't like it, but that's just too bad.

It just came to mind. There are twice as many assholes as pricks.

"Of course, the flag idolaters don't like it, but that's just too bad."

Yes, anyone who enjoys the holiday and allows himself to feel fortunate to live in a free country once a year is a "flag idolator".

Grow up.

RAY-
Good observation. Still, over 6 million links pop up for "trannies." Wouldn't that skew the assholes to pricks ratio just a bit?

The flag waving sheep like Sully want everyone else to shut up. Guess that's why they call them "patriots." Ironic.

G.K. Chesterton:

Saying

"My Country Right or Wrong"

is like saying


"My Mother, Drunk or Sober"

I love national holidays. It the time when thoughtful Americans get to vent their disgust at what this nation has become.

Memorial Day is the time to trash the soldiers that wage war on other counties.
The 4th is the time when the slaves think they are free.
By Labor Day, we get to spend what we earned after taxes.
Election day we get to choose the best liar.
Thanksgiving if you can afford a turkey.
Christmas reminds us how Christian wars ravaged Europe for three hundred years.
On New Years, we celebrate a year of screwing ourselves. We are Americans.

Been away for a week enjoying the sun & beaches of Florida.

On a more serious note about the holiday... for many years I'd been "proud" of being an American and did the corny flag waving and other things associated with the holiday without really... I mean really thinking about the sacrifices and crap people went through to help make us what we are. You

Our church did a "Freedom Celebration" the Friday evening before we left town 6/28 and highlighted the church members who'd served in our military.

It really hit home with me that our nation was built and continues to be defended by those who sacrifice for the greater good. It brought tears to my eyes seeing our son's photo along with others flashed on the screen as reps from all branches of the military marched to the stage. From Amazing Grace to the Star Spangled Banner, it was emotional.

We are truly blessed to live in America - warts and all. And I think at the end of the day, both lefty and righty on the DR would admit to having much more in common as Americans than differences.

Oohrah

It was a rough estimate, so I looked it up.
Google shows 28,600,000 links to asshole and 12,200,000 links to prick.

"Everybody believes that their country is the best because they happened to be born in it."

Yup. Just as the Roman Comic Book is the RIGHT one, because it was the one your stupid f#cking parents exposed you too when you were a kid.

Grow up.

Posted by Sully

Ironically it is children who believe indiscriminately what adults tell them.

RAY-
Sounds like you have plenty of "research" ahead of you. Me? I went straight for "trannies" and found more than I cared to view.

It really hit home with me that our nation was built and continues to be defended by those who sacrifice for the greater good.

Every freaking tyrant in history appeals to the "greater good." It's undefinable.

I mean really thinking about the sacrifices and crap people went through to help make us what we are.

The real sacrificers are the men and women who go to work every day to make a better life for themselves and their families. They are not the politicians who send young men to war. Nor are they the young men who naively believe they are fighting for liberty. They are fighting for the enslavement of ordinary Americans.

I went straight for "trannies" and found more than I cared to view.

This country is one too many for me.