Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

A Continental airliner leaving Houston had a close call with what appeared to be a model rocket, according to FAA records. The plane was at 4,750 feet traveling 277 mph. "Can you tell me what this is on my 12 o'clock?" Capt. George Stebo asked air traffic control. "It's climbing about 20 miles up. Is that a rocket launch?"

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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.

Alarmist question: How does anyone know this was a model rocket rather than some form of unsuccessful missile attack aimed at the plane? People who launch hobby rockets large enough to fly that high have to know the implications of launching them in a major airport's flight corridor.

People who launch hobby rockets large enough to fly that high have to know the implications of launching them in a major airport's flight corridor.]

Same idiots who play with lasers.

I used to live near an alternate landing path for LaGuardia.... we used to fly kites in the fields under the pathway... until the cops would come and take away our kites.

What else do you expect from Texas?

C'mon, anyone really beleive that this wasn't some good ole boy with a six pack and a brand new model rocket sold to him as the biggest baddest model rocket he has ever seen?

"Billy Bob, this model rocket will shoot up to 5000 feet. You will be just like one of them there NASA guys."

"Shiiiittt. Wrap it up. Toss in a few of them M-100's too, I'm gonna blow up some mailboxes on the way home."

"Yeeehhhaaawwww".

What else do you expect from Texas?

LOL. Right on cue, just a different thread. You guys' knee jerks are too predictible. That's what makes this site funny and boring at the same time.

www.drudge.com

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.

Posted by TrueBlue at 2008-07-03 08:30 AM


Then it's fucking hilarious!

Wow.. Model rockets have come a long way since I was a kid.. Ours were tiny and only the top of the line could make it anywhere near that height..

LOL

What are you? 16?

OMG! LOL? ROTHFLMAO! WTF?

Did I hurt the boo boo feelings? Somehow I think you will find the will to live.

"Alarmist question: How does anyone know this was a model rocket rather than some form of unsuccessful missile attack aimed at the plane? People who launch hobby rockets large enough to fly that high have to know the implications of launching them in a major airport's flight corridor."

Rcade - you are correct. I've been involved in rocketry since I was a kid and I also have my high power certification. I have a couple of issues with this story...

1) 4,750 feet is above the altitude of most hobby rockets, especially anything the general public can fly. It is possible to hit altitudes of a mile or so with a model but it takes some doing and larger motors than most people have access to. Also, a model rocket at that altitude would be coasting at a low velocity and probably arching over, about to deploy it's parachute.

2) A middle of the road high power rocket can hit altitudes like this; I have one or two in my fleet that can do that. However...anyone who's achieved certification (which is required to buy the motors) knows full well that to fly a rocket that weighs over 3 lbs and/or contains more than 62.5 grams of propellant requires an FAA waiver. The waiver will specify the time and location and maximum altitude permitted of the launch and a Notice to Airmen is issued so that both the air traffic controllers and aircraft in the area know about the launch and; if neccesary, the ATC will reroute traffic around the area. This system works very well and the FAA is generally great about working with rocketeers and rocketry clubs are very tough on members to make sure waivers are adhered to. A rogue individual with a certification might fly on their own but they would be well aware of the potential consequences of doing so without proper clearance and also would know that a high power launch is something that is noticeable both to people in the area on the ground and probably visible in the air. Not that there aren't dummies out there of course.


2) The pilot mentioned "20 miles". If he's correct, there are only a very few people in the rocketry community who can hit altitudes like this. It takes very large and expensive motors to achieve this kind of thing. The very elite people who can do this are also the ones who are extremely well aware of the regulations and who don't do stupid things like fly this kind of thing without FAA approval and anywhere in the area of active aircraft operations.

So, my hunch is that the pilot probably saw a jet contrail at a higher altitude that, with certain sun angles, can look like something entirely different. It could have been someone flying a rocket but doubtful (and the rocketry community will be buzzing about this and investigating as well); it could also be a terrorist attack.

But it is highly unlikely that it is someone with a model rocket that they purchased at Walmart or a hobby store.

"4,750 feet"

Somehow I don't think it said "Estes" on the motor.
I don't think it existed at all. Just another UFO that was really a mirage. Soon a Youtube video will be available to clear it all up.

And if it was real, the FAA is PISSED.

An Estes Rocket reach one mile high in 10-15 seconds. The article clearly says he was flying a 4750 feet, which is under one mile high.

They are very light being made of cardboard tubes and balsa wood. They are much less dangerous than a high flying bird, one could say zero danger to a commercial airplane, unless they were loaded with explosives. But in that case it would be difficult to engineer a package that would reach that height. Not to mention how extremely difficult it would be to hit a moving target. It would take more than the standard designs available in hobby shops.

Now that I see that this was the incident in May and not a new one, there was a discussion on the Rocketry Forum about this incident :

www.rocketryforum.com

"Soon a Youtube video will be available to clear it all up."

Good...let's get BuffaloBoob on it right away!

Sounds like the reporter wanted to sensationalize the event.

"A Continental airliner MIGHT have been only a minute away from colliding with what the pilot described as a model rocket that shot past his cockpit window"

Ahhh but the real story was...

"Can you tell me what this is on my 12 o'clock (in front of his plane)? It's climbing about 20 miles up. Is that a rocket launch?"

20 miles up? Where was the danger at 5000 feet???? If the projectile flew past his window and was 20 miles up seconds later that would be something like mach 10.

"We're trying to figure out a location to see if this is a problem for us," the dispatcher said. He tells another pilot who spotted the contrail that "we're keeping you south of that suspected area."

Well since it takes time to keep that plane away from the area it would be miles away as well as miles up. Close call? Come on!

"An Estes Rocket reach one mile high in 10-15 seconds. "

It is nearly impossible to hit 1 mile with an Estes motor. The longest burning motor is an E9; with the maximum delay time it would pop the chute at about 11 seconds from launch.

Even with multistaging it's pretty tough to break 3,000 feet with Estes motors. I've tried.

[citation needed]

"This high flying rocket roars to ultra high altitudes - over a half mile high! "
www.estesrockets.com

Bird strikes can be a bitch.

www.rapp.org

teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu

"one mile high in 10-15 seconds"

5280ft/15sec


If

A = 21,120 ft/min climb rate or better.

B = Bought at a hobby shop.


=0

Dammit, the fucking software thinks Dirac notation is HTML. Crap!

"This high flying rocket roars to ultra high altitudes - over a half mile high! "
www.estesrockets.com

Exactly Zat...I actually have one of those. You can possibly hit 2500 feet or so. But a three stager like that has a tendency to weathercock a lot (fly into the wind) especially since it's relatively heavy and slow initially at launch. It isn't going to come close to a mile though.

"It isn't going to come close to a mile though."

Posted by DCinMA

Maybe if I had hardpoints on my Baron.

Thanks for the info and link, DCinMA.

"Maybe if I had hardpoints on my Baron."

Now that sounds cool...fun way to launch though I'd sure want a time delay if firing a larger motor that way so I could drop it before it lights. Some of those composite motors burn very hot and would make interesting marks on the wing or fuselage if lit right next to it...

"would make interesting marks on the wing or fuselage"

Better not use a fabric-covered bird then.

A J-3 cub?

www.gla.ac.uk

oops

Then it's fucking hilarious!

Nah. Then it's just fun that you can't see.

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.

Posted by TrueBlue at 2008-07-03 08:30 AM | Reply |


Or gets a sucking chest wound.

A lone pilot sees a UFR (Unidentified Flying Rocket) why get overly excited? My husband saw a potted plant by his chair today -- guess what, no plant exists by his chair.

Without a confirmation incidents such as this should not become an operation blue-book waste of tax dollars.

There IS a problem with sucking chest wounds....


They suck.

I agree with DCinMA ... that was NO model.

I have launched model rockets and mine have never gone much above 1,000 feet. (but I am not an elite rocketeer).

To get a "rocket" to 20 miles takes some big bucks and some real know how!

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