"As part of this process, I looked at the Obama campaign not through the prism of my own progressive views and beliefs but through the prism of a cold-eyed campaign strategist who has no principles except winning. From that point of view, and taking nothing else into consideration, I can unequivocally say: the Obama campaign is making a very serious mistake. Tacking to the center is a losing strategy. And don't let the latest head-to-head poll numbers lull you the way they lulled Hillary Clinton in December."

Ah, the netroot worms turn. Arianna being one of the wormiest.

*Yawn*

It's a bad strategy, whatever you think of Arianna.

Yeah, it's a bad strategy, but wholly expected.

Except by some Obama purists like Miz Obamingtonpost.

This thread isn't about Huffington. It's about Obama's strategy.

What bothers me about tacking to the right is...

Which Obama is the real Obama?

The Obama who beat Clinton, or

The Obama who is running against McCain?

The message Obama is sending is "don't go off on your own. coordinate your message through the Obama campaign, or STFU", and I tend to agree.

Good question. Nobody really knows. FDR campaigned as a centrist and governed as a progressive. I doubt Obama will do the same.

"The message Obama is sending is "don't go off on your own. coordinate your message through the Obama campaign, or STFU", and I tend to agree."

What are you talking about? Who is supposed to STFU?

Because McCain is so far to the right it is only natural that Obama would try to appeal to moderate voters who aren't normally "left leaning" but who just can't go with the right wing crazy thoughts of the New McCain. Permanent tax cuts for the rich, long term occupation of Iraq, etc. are right wing crazy positions which does leave the middle (which generally falls to Republicans) there for the taking by Obama. I think Arianna is huffing something.

Perhaps Arianna can tell us all how well she did with her ex-husband's failed campaign for the California senate?

Arianna is pointing to a real dilema for Obama. Yet she misses the point.

This country has never and won't ever nominate a liberal such as Obama to POTUS.

He has to run to the center--and in the process comes off worse than Kerry with his flip flopping.

The country has 20% in the hard left camp and 20% in the hard right camp.

The rest are in the middle and they might lean to the right or left--but in the end there is not enough for Obama to win.

He is running from his liberal positions--I wish he would be a man and do what Arianna says--stay left. Because he will lose.

Of course we are not even allowed to talk about his liberal positions because that would be an attack.

Wait until the time of the debates--another flip flop issue for Obama he lied about once he got back to the table of his handlers.

Who is running this guy?

"...how well she did with her ex-husband's failed campaign for the California senate?"

Didn't she turn him gay?

Rhandi Rhoades or Arianna?

"He is running from his liberal positions"

No he isn't, he's just trying to also include other positions that will help with independents and Republicans who are so disgusted by Bush and the Republican Party that they are like sitting ducks.
He is just trying to take advantage of McCain's voluntary relinquishment of all moderate voters with his hard line right wing policies that have ruined our economy and have us already in two wars with a third coming if he is elected.
Obama is trying to capture all sane voters, leaving the insane for McBush.

Stay out there on the weirdo wacky left with Arianna, Rev Wright, and William Ayers. That's a good strategy. Attack John McCain because he didn't gain any Presidential experience while he was a prisoner of war for 6 years. That's a better idea.

Danni,

Voting record are clear McCain is to the left of center of the majority of republicans.

Whereas Hillary and Obama are to the left of a majority of democrats.

But other than that, Arriana should keep her mouth shut if she wants her man to win. He's just trying to claim the center, win at any cost. By her pointing this out, it sounds like he's a typical politician.

But go ahead Nulli, keep posting threads which your man is making a mistake, the messiah has a winning strategy, and your throwing a wrench into it, I like it.

Obama, change you can count on, even his own people agree!

"No he isn't, he's just trying to also include other positions "

Politics as usual... say whatever you have to say to get votes.
No change here.

"Voting record are clear McCain is to the left of center of the majority of republicans."

Actually the other day they were discussing "voting record" on TV and his is not far out of line with Bush and the rest of the Republicans.....and that was the Old McCain, not the new reinvented McBush who wants to make the Bush tax cuts for the rich permanent, to stay in Iraq indefinitely, etc.

"But go ahead Nulli, keep posting threads which your man is making a mistake, the messiah has a winning strategy, and your throwing a wrench into it, I like it."

He's not "my man," no one calls him a messiah except rightwingers, and yes, I'll will continue to post threads criticizing him from the left as I see fit.

You see, unlike you Bushies, not all of us are cultists.

"Voting record are clear McCain is to the left of center of the majority of republicans."

95% voting with Bush in 2007. 100% in 2008. Nice try.

"Voting record are clear McCain is to the left of center of the majority of republicans."

McCain has voted 100% of the time with the Administration in 2008, 95% last year, and an average of 91.5% over the past 7 1/2 years.

So I assume that the entire party is running as fast as they can away from the Bush regime and claiming it did not represent the majority of Republicans for 2 terms.

Great minds thinking alike Null.

FTA: The Obama brand has always been about inspiration, a new kind of politics, the audacity of hope, and "change we can believe in." I like that brand. More importantly, voters -- especially unlikely voters -- like that brand.

Spud agrees with Arianna here.

Traditional politics in the US have candidates running to the left or right (depending on Party) during the primary season and then running back to the center during the run up to the general.

Playing to the wishy washy undecided swing voters rather than his new base of unlikely voters may hurt Obama more than help him.

Face it, there are hard core rethug voters who knee-jerkedly vote fer wotever asswipe the GOPhers put up.

Fergit about pleasin' them. They aint up fer grabs.

Watering down yer message in order to try and appeal to the fence-sitter set is bad strategy fer Obama.

The new voters who have shown up in droves this primary season and sat through those long caucus sessions in order to garner delegates fer Obama have done so because they are excited by the possiblity of real change not because they like politics as usual.

Original Obama brand is best.

Obama-lite sucks ass.

Barack best learn this lesson and soon.

08ama '08.

Be Well.

A bunch of posts on this thread are just NULLandVOID.......as usual.

I totally HATE to suggest that Murphy is ever right on anything, but the history of at least recent American politics indicates that wooing dead center is how it's done. Yeah, as Jim Hightower noted, there's nothing in the middle of the road but dead armadillos and a yellow stripe, but the land's Murphys fear a real position on anything. I live with the hope that President O'Bama will launch another New Deal to remedy the Bush damage. Nothing less will do. herm

"He is running from his liberal positions"

No he isn't, he's just trying to also include other positions
per Danni----

Are you kidding?

He is flip flopping on everything from public finance, NAFTA, the war, FISA, his pastor, his church, his friends.

It will be great to see commercials from his statements during the primary to now.

Maybe then you will see that Obama is a flip flopper and not just trying to "include other positions"..

At least be honest Danni.

"but the history of at least recent American politics indicates that wooing dead center is how it's done. "

Just ask President Kerry how well that works.

And still Murphy, et al don't have any problem with McCain changing practically every position he's ever held in order to attract the right wing of his party.

Talk about being honest.

Has it ever occurred to y'all that Obama isn't so much moving to the middle as John McCain is moving farther to the right to try to please the wacko religious right and the neocons. With the economy tanking it changes many voter's traditional willingness to go along with the Republican nominee, they can see that "it's the economy stupid." Obama should continue what he is doing and increase his campaign speeches about the economy. The economy is the issue that will decide this election and John McCain is stuck way out on a limb that is cracking and breaking even before November arrives.

Just ask President Kerry how well that works.

No, ask Bill Clinton.

Yeah, nobody has a problem with that McCain. Conservatives and Republicans love him. In fact you never hear anyone say that McCain is a RINO...

All the rightwing talk radio guys and gals are in love with him too...

Jesus fucking christ.

Ask Jimmy Carter too.

Obama is a Marxist and an anarchist!

FACT!

Maybe then you will see that Obama is a flip flopper and not just trying to "include other positions"..

At least be honest Danni.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-07-01 01:26 PM | Reply

Yeah, right. Try reality.

Ariana just needs something to write about other than "Support Obama"

The message should be "YES" to Obama.

The campaign has to be able to counter the image being made by the right that he is too liberal, too unknown, too inexperienced, all the stuff including race they will throw at him.

He is going to win.

Then, when he's President start complaining, please, when you have to. Not now!

Sorry kids but nobody will ever get elected president in this country leaning very far left or right. I know it sounds nice and all but those who would have to show up and vote to elect such a candidate, usually stay home on election day. Because for those people, no one can lean far enuff to the extreme for their liking.
That being said, Obama can speak through a toilet paper tube and still mop up the floor with John "my friends" McCain in any debate. Unless the only question of the debate was "Share your experiences as a POW."

"All the rightwing talk radio guys and gals are in love with him too...

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2008-07-01 01:32 PM"

That's right - they're not even going to vote for him. Oh yeah, they flip-flopped on that, didn't they?

but the history of at least recent American politics indicates that wooing dead center is how it's done.
Posted by herm

Worked for Gore.... check

Worked for Kerry.... check.

"Yeah, nobody has a problem with that McCain"

I was referring to certain hypocritical posters here on the DR, not radio talk show hosts, Einstein.

And still Murphy, et al don't have any problem with McCain changing practically every position he's ever held in order to attract the right wing of his party.

Talk about being honest.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

You miss the point. None of us are trying to suggest that McCain is anything other than who he is. It's the Obamamites who have assigned Messiah status to Obama. It's Obama who is selling himself as different - change, hope, unity and all of that shit. Yet, every day Obama proves himself to be more and more like any other politician. His being 'different' is being increasingly stripped away. Every day. Pretty soon he'll be perceived as who he is - just another typical Democratic nominee who will be forced to try and win the vote for reasons other than superficial ones.

That's right - they're not even going to vote for him. Oh yeah, they flip-flopped on that, didn't they?

Given the alternative?

Nice deflection, BTW.

The point was that right-wing talk-radio is and always has been very critical of McCain.

Obama is just trying to do the big tent thing. He is centrist in a lot of ways. I think he holds the same beliefs most of America does and thats why he will win.

Voters need to realize that presidential campaigns give us an impression of the candidate but that no positions are set in stone. Remember "read my lips, no new taxes", "no nation building" etc. Concerning ourselves if Obama is leaning too far towards the middle is silly, he is leaning where he believes he needs to lean in order to get elected just as every other president elected in the past 75 years has done. He will obviously be far to the left of McCain, to me that tells me what I need to know.

Right wing wacko vs. moderate to left leaning leader???

Not much of a contest here except for right wing ideologues.

Moving to the Middle is for Losers

Sounds like something Rush would say.

It's no wonder I don't read her stuff.

Gee, a Presidential Candidate that is seeking to lead ALL THE PEOPLE.

This is why some of us didn't want Hillary. After having a polorizing President shove a particular agenda down our throats, we didn't want the same from the other side.

Remind me again why this lady knows anything about winning a Presidential election.

I was referring to certain hypocritical posters here on the DR, not radio talk show hosts, Einstein.

Hypocritical?

It's the Obama supporters who answer every criticism of the Messiah with a McCain deflection.

I was referring to certain hypocritical posters here on the DR, not radio talk show hosts, Einstein.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-01 01:39 PM | Reply

I was refering to posters here too Monroe. Notice the use of the return key before discussing talk show hosts? See that it was an entirely different thought?

There are more than a few people right of center here that dislike McCain and voice that opinion often.

If you want to pick nits be more specific than "et al" douchebag.

"Nice deflection, BTW.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-07-01 01:41 PM"

Thank you, my brutha. How's that post doing, by the way?

"It's the Obama supporters who answer every criticism of the Messiah with a McCain deflection."

Er....they are running against each other in an election, what do you expect????
YOu could make the same statement and reverse the order of the names.

Then, when he's President start complaining, please, when you have to. Not now!

Posted by sitdown

He's already let us know that he's not going to owe anything to anybody if he's elected because of his campaign financing.

The only thing I've got to get him to listen to me now is my vote.

He's got to understand that my vote is his to earn, not his to bank on.

But I'm from NY, so WTF am I talking about anyway?

"Then, when he's President start complaining, please, when you have to. Not now!"

In other words, progressives should keep their mouths shut and pray that Obama doesn't really mean it when he talks like a hawk on Israel, appoints hawks to his foreign policy team, appoints free traders and Walmart shills to his economic team, etc.

We've been down that road before.

"It's the Obamamites who have assigned Messiah status to Obama."

No Jeff, its a silly right wing talking point. And when you repeat it, it kind of overshadows any validity of the rest of your post.

Perhaps you personally haven't deliberately overlooked all the many inconsistencies and reversals by McCain, while criticizing Obama for anything that could be perceived as a change of position, but many others have.

I, for one, understand that some compromises have to be made. Some of them I'm OK with, some I don't like as much. So far, none of them have been of a magnitude to change my mind about who will be the better leader for the country.

It's the Obama supporters who answer every criticism of the Messiah with a McCain deflection.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-07-01 01:42 PM

These same loons were supporting Kerry and encouraging him to ask McCain to be his running mate? Now of course like Lieberman they are the antichrist, jew loving, war mongering, Bush backing...

The Baseless, and Failed, Move to the Center' Cliche

"It's the Obamamites who have assigned Messiah status to Obama."

No Jeff, its a silly right wing talking point.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

"It's the Obama supporters who answer every criticism of the Messiah with a McCain deflection.

Posted by JeffJ"

So drawing a comparison between two candidates running for the same office is a deflection?

Jeff, what has happened to you?

I, for one, understand that some compromises have to be made. Some of them I'm OK with, some I don't like as much. So far, none of them have been of a magnitude to change my mind about who will be the better leader for the country.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-01 01:47 PM

Didn't you defend the Boy Wonder when he gaffed in his debate? Where he said he would not enforce the current immigration laws or do anything about the sanctuary cities who harbor illegals? I think you backed Obama and said sometimes anarchy is needed? Is that a compromise you are OK with? That doesn't raise the magnitude flag? Ignoring the Constitution as the POTUS?

No Crispee, I didn't. In fact, I wasn't involved in any such discussion here.

Go make stuff up about someone else now.

Obama's going to draw the ire of some folks on the retort. He today said he wants to expand Bush's faith based programs.

Arianna may be correct. The rhetoric has to remain hot to keep his crowds enthusiastic. He has to evoke Bobby and Jack Kennedy, and Eugene Mccarthy while adhering to a Horatio Alger ethos that will pull moderates from the center.

As for triangulating, he needs to select then send forth national security, agriculture, economy, and energy policy wonks from his "pre-convention kitchen cabinet" who will reassure centrists in those 4 policy areas that his tent of advisors is very wide and will ultimately include centrists.

But ultimately, Arianna has to agree that any administration will need to pull somewhat from the center or it will be as popular as the Bush Cheney administration has been.

Make that a sarcastic "popular" as the Bush Cheney guys have been.

the larger point is that Obama is OWNED BY WALL STREET.

Translation NO CHANGE.

Flippity floppity fuckity, the phucking phrase "flip flop" is going to fwop food up from my esophagus. Not fun!

No Crispee, I didn't. In fact, I wasn't involved in any such discussion here.

Go make stuff up about someone else now.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-07-01 01:57 PM

Really? You claim you didn't discuss the first dem debate in April 2007? You didn't defend Obama and Hilary in regards to their postion on illegal immigration? Next you are going to say Tony Roma backs Hilary.

Translation NO CHANGE.

Posted by nutcase

It's becoming a race between a turd sandwich and a giant douche.

"Obama-lite sucks ass.

Barack best learn this lesson and soon."

-D Spuddish One

Some of us read the pander content on this new bottle early on and found it contained old wine.

Hairy Anna and also D'ohbermann are among the netroots purists threatening Obama as if he were the first candidate to ditch his pandering to the far Left in a Primary in order to pander to the middle in the General.

Happens all the time. Of course, Miss Hillary wouldn't have had to make such a stretch, since she was more honest with the Left about some of her middle positions to begin with.

"You didn't defend Obama and Hilary in regards to their postion on illegal immigration?"

No Crispee. I did not.

Why would anyone need to defend the Obama's and Hilary's position on immigration when it is virtually the same as McSame's. It looks like a non-issue in this election except that McCain is unpopular among Hispanics because of other Republicans.

You know what the true problem is with Obama?

No one really knows him.

He appeared out of no where and caught the eye of folks because of his 2002 stance on the war.

The MSM covered up any vetting of this guy until it was too late. ie. after the video of Wright came out.

It was too late to change course.

He is a liberal--There are a few folks here that want him to maintain his liberal positions--Null Spud, Many, etc.

And damn winning the election. Because he would then be at least true to himself and why the left really likes the guy.

Some of the issues that McCain has changed positions on--ie illegal immigration (although I don't see him changing at all--just the order in which to get the issue resolved--and Obama is almost the same rhetoric), energy, tax cuts, and other issues--McCain appears to have a reasonable explanation for his change.

Folks may not like his stance...But everyone Knows McCain. He has been around since Moby Dick was a minnow.

That's why the MSM doesn't make a big heyday over McCain--He changed his stance on energy because we are paying $4.00 a gallon--wouldn't you want the leader of the country to recognize the need to change a position when the facts show a change?

But the MSM do go over Obama and his changing positions--because we really don't know Obama and his changing comes in as a negative towards him and the campaign.

It was announced that the NRA is going to spend 15 million in ads against Obama and showcase his various positions on guns. They have a lot of material and it will be the truth. And Obama will call it an attack.

Because we are not allowed to talk about his positions when he changed them--Obama can't be honest with himself or the people. That is why he will ultimately lose the election.

Why would anyone need to defend the Obama's and Hilary's position on immigration when it is virtually the same as McSame's

Don't think I remember McCain being invited to the dems first presidential debate last year. As usual you miss the point again. Both candidates said they would not follow the constitution and enforce the immigration laws on the books. They also claimed they would allow santuary cities to remain.

obama is still greater then mccain

rather have a left leanding guy pander to the middle

then a middle right leaning guy pander to the right

obama > mccain

and when mccain panders to the right

he panders to the far right

He appeared out of no where and caught the eye of folks because of his 2002 stance on the war.

He was handed the US Senate seat in 2002 running unopposed in the party and general election. He then is pimped out by the dems in their 2004 convention using him to attract minority and the youth vote. They guy reads a speech he never wrote and suddenly he is presidential material???

actually he writes many of his own speeches

at least the most famous of his speeches he writes

what makes him presidential material is

a) he ran the nomination process and was selected

b) he is smarter then the average joe

c) he enspires the masses

he is presidential material as is mccain

problem is mccain is a sunday morning flap jack flip flopper king, who used to be in the middle but has pandered himself to the rightest of right wing conservatism and the bush agenda.

"McCain appears to have a reasonable explanation for his change."

Riiight! I want to hear his reasonable explanation for making the Bush Tax Cut for the rich permanent in an era of falling dollar value and rising deficits. Purely a political ploy to gain the favor of the far right. As unprincipled a stance as I have ever seen in my lifetime considering the dire economic condition of this country.

"They guy reads a speech he never wrote and suddenly he is presidential material???"

Oh.. .who writes his speeches Crispy, I've read that actually, unlike most politicians, he does write his own.

"...who used to be in the middle but has pandered himself to the rightest of right wing conservatism and the bush agenda.

Posted by klifferd

if it ain't broke....

Remember, it's only losing the war in iraq that has Bush's numbers so low.

If McCain can convince people that he can actually win in this quagmire, he's going to be a stronger contender than anyone gives him credit for.

Danni

corky

but obama wrote his 2004 speech himself

and we know he wrote the race speech himself

the majority of speeches are rehash speeches anyways

victory blah blah, here is my position, here is the other guys

fine, speech writer do it.

but the important ones
the ones that give people the chills
obama writes himself.

"They guy reads a speech he never wrote and suddenly he is presidential material???"

Oh.. .who writes his speeches Crispy, I've read that actually, unlike most politicians, he does write his own.

Posted by danni at 2008-07-01 03:55 PM

OH?? Did he write the speech at the 2004 Dem. convention? Which is what you failed to paste or comprehend.

Remember, it's only losing the war in iraq that has Bush's numbers so low.

I would think gas prices pretty much sum up the Presidents approval ratings. When the prices go up the ratings go down.

hagbard

i don't discount mccain
or any republican on the chances of them winning

but the facts are

mccain is a ultra right wing panderer, and that itself makes him even more dangerous.
he is kissing the rove machines ass
and they know how to fling mud better then any other mudslingers can

bush is looked down upon for more then just iraq
but yes iraq is big time

but we have already lost
it was obviously a pointless war in that no wmd's were found, its taken years and hundreds of billions, well over 4000 soldier lives, and who knows how many private us citizens have died.

even if we leave tomorrow
and alls good there
we lost
iraq won
iran won

"OH?? Did he write the speech at the 2004 Dem. convention? Which is what you failed to paste or comprehend."

yes he did
according to the corky newsweek article

"His boss is a best-selling author who doesn't really need his help, having written the 2004 speech that catapulted him onto the national stage. "

yes he did
according to the corky newsweek article

Apparently I was wrong and can taste the size 13 shoe.

but we have already lost
it was obviously a pointless war in that no wmd's were found, its taken years and hundreds of billions, well over 4000 soldier lives, and who knows how many private us citizens have died.

even if we leave tomorrow
and alls good there
we lost
iraq won
iran won

Posted by klifferd at 2008-07-01 04:08 PM

Too bad Obama won't speak these words. Even though he more than likely believes it is true.

"OH?? Did he write the speech at the 2004 Dem. convention? Which is what you failed to paste or comprehend."

yes he did
according to the corky newsweek article

all I can say is...whoever wrote those speeches

Pretty dam good speeches!

We should vote for that guy!

What bothers me about tacking to the right is...

Which Obama is the real Obama?

The Obama who beat Clinton, or

The Obama who is running against McCain?

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-06-30 05:38 P

remember HC... it is a MORAL imperative that we WIN the election.

I would tell you who the real Obama is but the Rethugs are watching! Besides you already know... you felt the chills at least once too!

So Shhhhhhh!

He has to win or it really doesn't matter now does it?

So the qualification for POTUS is the ability to write a Speech? WOW!!!

Here is the truth--MHO--

Obama has no experience in economics--

McCain has 10 years on the Senate Commerce Committee.

Obama has no military experience.

McCain has 22 years, including the courage and loyalty he showed while in the Hanoi Hilton. And 16 years on the Armed Forces Committee. He has travelled just about everywhere including Iraq.

Obama has no qualifications or experience in crossing the aisle. He voted 130 times "Present".

McCain has been doing it for 26 years in the Congress. McCain Feingold, McCain Kennedy, the Gang of 14.

Obama claims he had the right judgment on the war.

EEEHHHHHH--Obama was following what his liberal south side Chicago constituents would expect of him. He did nothing of courage as he was going with the status quo.

McCain being the maverick went against everyone including Bush in 2002 on the management of the war. He called for a change in strategy and fully backed the plan for the surge. He went with Campaign Finance--again going against the party. He went with the damn M-K illegal immigration bill. Crossing the aisle and being a maverick--against the party. Exhibiting more courage.

Everytime someone brings up Qualifications--is bad for Obama--because he has none at all.

you felt the chills at least once too!

So Shhhhhhh!

Posted by donnerboy

Yeah, I felt it once... but he was talking about race. like last August or something. He never does that anymore... not the way he did when I rushed to the internet, sent him my resume and my home phone number. I thought his "race" speach was weak in comparison.

These days, there's another candidate with whom I have ALOT more in common... and he's not the Senator from AZ.

Obama can have my vote any time he wants it. He knows how, I've since written the campaign to beg them to come get my vote...

He's not gonna get it by default just because McCain sucks.

I want to believe. Today I just don't.

But like I said upthread, I'm from NY, so I could vote for Satan and it wouldn't make a difference because Obama has NY locked up.

"These days, there's another candidate with whom I have ALOT more in common... and he's not the Senator from AZ."

The unmentionable one? The only progressive still running? I agree. Obama's not going to get my vote by default either.

The unmentionable one? The only progressive still running?
Posted by nullifidian

Obama can have my vote any time he wants it. He knows how, I've since written the campaign to beg them to come get my vote... -- Hagbard

He seems to be a lot like Bush in the sense that he's quick to say "f*** you" to anyone who doesn't worship at his feet. Knowing he needed to court women voters, he sneered "sweetie" at a Michigan reporter. Knowing that he needs to court Michigan, he screws up every time he's there (sweetie, Muslim women). But the best is that knowing he needs to court working class voters, he announced he'd rip out the White House bowling alley and construct a basketball court.

This last one blew my mind -- completely pointless except to say FU.

he sneered "sweetie" at a Michigan reporter

He didn't sneer.

He called her "sweetie" cos he didn't know her name.

The lady in question wasn't offended in the least.

Luckily fer her because the GOPhers tried to make this non-issue into an actual story she ended up getting an exclusive interview with Obama.

Good fer her sez Spud.

Shame on the Righty Tighty asswipes.

he announced he'd rip out the White House bowling alley and construct a basketball court.

He joked about it after the media made a big deal of his lack of bowling skills and to emphasize the fact that he's a force to be reckoned with on the roundball court.

"blew my mind"?

Seriously?

Wot a tiny, fragile mind you must have.

08ama '08.

Mamma sed Barack You Out!

Be Well.

He didn't sneer.

He called her "sweetie" cos he didn't know her name.

The lady in question wasn't offended in the least.

Not entirely true.

She admitted that she wasn't offended by the 'sweetie' comment - much ado about nothing as far as I am concerned.

She was a bit offended that he brushed off her question and never got around to answering it.

The 'sweetie' thing was a faux pas IMO. I don't believe he meant it to be demeaning in any way. While some might take offense to it - try that with a man-hating, rabid feminist - I don't believe he meant it to be offensive.

So drawing a comparison between two candidates running for the same office is a deflection?

Jeff, what has happened to you?

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Nothing at all.

Let's review:

1. Murphy points out certain Obama transgressions

2. Obmaites respond with legitimate McCain deflections - as you pointed out

3. Obamaites then go on to accuse Obama detractors as hypocrites while simultaneously failing to address the initial charge - Obama transgressions.

It's the leap from 2 to 3 that I am challenging.

Don't care--not important.

I call my softball players sweetie alllll the time.

Too many names--but by the end of the season I had them all.

"McCain being the maverick went against everyone including Bush in 2002 on the management of the war. He called for a change in strategy and fully backed the plan for the surge. He went with Campaign Finance--again going against the party. He went with the damn M-K illegal immigration bill. Crossing the aisle and being a maverick--against the party. Exhibiting more courage."

Murphy all that is true and is to his credit, no argument. But then he caved on the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich and on Torture. Sorry but Torture would have been an issue I would have thought we could depend on him, if he will overlook torture then he will overlook anything to get elected.
John McCain's character is what is going to cost him in the end.

Murphy all that is true and is to his credit, no argument. But then he caved on the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich and on Torture. Sorry but Torture would have been an issue I would have thought we could depend on him, if he will overlook torture then he will overlook anything to get elected.

John McCain's character is what is going to cost him in the end

Woo Hoo!

Danni Fer The WIN!

Be Well.

wow, I like that bitch huffington. So WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN.

Yeah, I agree. Do whatever it takes to defeat scumbacg tax raising democrats, short of shooting them,

"Do whatever it takes to defeat scumbacg ... democrats, short of shooting them"

Sure is good to know that rightie icon stops short of shooting. herm

Danni--

We don't torture--those who do get put in prison.

As for the tax cuts--he didn't like them in 2001 because there was nothing in the bill to stop the spending or make cuts.

He wants them now because they help the economy.

No one is addressing Obama and his problems with running to the center to get away from his liberal positions.

Obama has the character problems--he sits in the pews of the Amerikkk preacher for 20 years. He shows great character.

Nov 5 is gonna be a barrel of fun listening to the Murphys, etc. crying in there whatever.

" I want to hear his reasonable explanation for making the Bush Tax Cut for the rich permanent in an era of falling dollar value and rising deficits"

Ha! Danni and her talking points. Get ready danni...he is for increasing everyone's taxes, with the bulk falling on the middle class, despite what you hear...he's all about hand outs.

Like an example of hurting us? Try 10.5% sales tax in his state, increasing cap gains and dividend taxes, upping social security tax, upping the cost of EVERYONE'S health care....

"Torture" another glib talking point, spoken by the left WHICH APPROVED the US tactics, before acting like they didn't....

Same old tired stupid shit, by "Danni"....You'd make a great delegate from Fla(silenced by the dnc)....except you eat to much and they are on a health kick this year at the DNC.

"He wants them now because they help the economy."

Yeah a devalued dollar sure helps the economy. $4.00 per gallon gas make the economy go.

"Ha! Danni and her talking points. Get ready danni...he is for increasing everyone's taxes, with the bulk falling on the middle class, despite what you hear...he's all about hand outs."

Davethewave isn't bothered by the fact that Obama has laid out a plan which does not raise the taxes on the middle class, in fact lowers them because Davethewave is not part of the reality based community.

Kos Calls Obama a Backstabber
Posted on July 1, 2008

Maybe what looks like cowering to me is really part of that "moving to the center" stuff everyone keeps talking about. But there is a line between "moving to the center" and stabbing your allies in the back out of fear of being criticized. And, of late, he's been doing a lot of unecessary stabbing, betraying his claims of being a new kind of politician. Not that I ever bought it, but Obama is now clearly not looking much different than every other Democratic politician who has ever turned his or her back on the base in order to prove centrist bona fides. That's not an indictment, just an observation.

Now I know there's a contingent around here that things Obama can do no wrong, and he must never be criticized, and if you do, well f*ck you! I respect the sentiment, but will respectfully disagree

"Obama has now said that he opposes California's initiative to ban gay marriage"

Where is the flip-flop here, Kerrin? Is it impossible to support the state's right to decide the issue, but take a side in the debate?

"and that he would use federal law to end such efforts:"

Could you provide a link (something besides a blog) to that, because I've not heard it, and the source you cited doesn't say that.

Hmmm. Guess Kerrin was distracted by something shiny and went wandering off.

I call my softball players sweetie alllll the time. -- Nanc

I call friends, including friends who are professional women, "sweetie" also. But context matters.

He didn't sneer. -- Spud

The video is pretty damning. And let me go out on a limb here, and guess that you've never been in any kind of white-collar workplace with professional women. Trust me, he knew he was being a jerk. He raised red flags with male friends who are Obama supporters.

he announced he'd rip out the White House bowling alley and construct a basketball court.

He joked about it...

Yes. But he ought to know it wouldn't play that way, and since it was in response to a question about the NBA, it was completely gratuitous.

I think there is a difference between moving to the middle and playing to the middle.

I think there is a difference between moving to the middle and playing to the middle.

Posted by WilliamJ at 2008-07-02 06:12 PM |

Kind of like a radio dial. He starts to the far left and the low numbers,(IQ of dems) the further right he goes the higher the numbers.(IQ of repubs)

"The IQ of repubs"??? A mythical number, but surely preceded by a decimal point? herm