Go, Wes!

"Glad to see SOMEBODY is willing to hit McCain with this."

NObody is hitting McC these days. A couple of hard questions - not the creampuffs being tossed these days - and the aging Arizonan "war hero" would implode like the WTC towers.

The current issue of The Nation chronicles this. The Crooked Talk Express boys revel in bed with this guy, willing to give him a free pass straight into November. herm

" couple of hard questions - not the creampuffs being tossed these days - and the aging Arizonan "war hero" would implode like the WTC towers."

No joke man.

If anything he'd literally just go off halfcocked and that would be that. It must really chew at this guy how he lost out to Bush in '00.

His time came and went.

I think forcing McCain to face up to the hard economic times and the REAL causes for them would serve to destroy his candidacy better than personal attacks about his military record. I notice though that few if any interviewers ask him about the effects of making the Bush tax cuts permanent, or of the economic effects of staying in Iraq for a prolonged amount of time. The corporate media doesn't want McCain to have to face real questions about the real issues and so they manufacture controversy like this one. Wes Clarke needs to shut up about McCain's military career.

Wes Clarke needs to shut up about McCain's military career.

Posted by danni

I think Obama and his camp basically told him to do just that Danni...

It was actually Scheiffer that recommended McCain's **FAILURE AT AVOIDING BEING SHOT** somehow qualifies him to be president... which is ridiculous on its face.

CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy-making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Air -- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, "I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it" --

SCHIEFFER: Well --

CLARK: -- "publicly?" He hasn't made those calls, Bob.

SCHIEFFER: Well -- well, General, maybe he --

CLARK: So --

SCHIEFFER: Could I just interrupt you? If --

CLARK: Sure.

SCHIEFFER: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean --

CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.

SCHIEFFER: Really?

CLARK: But Barack is not -- he is not running on the fact that he has made these national security pronouncements. He's running on his other strengths. He's running on the strengths of character, on the strengths of his communication skills, on the strengths of his judgment -- and those are qualities that we seek in our national leadership.

"including allowing his campaign surrogates to demean and attack John McCain's military service record."

If McCain and his supporters didn't hold it up as his primary strength over Obama I would agree. However, if McCain wants to trot out his military career, he has to expect people to look at it and see if he's all he claims to be. I think it's absolutely appropriate for someone as qualified as Gen. Clark to point out that in their eyes McCain's claims and reality don't add up.

Exactly. The excuse used for pounding Kerry in 04 was that he used his military service all the time. If McCain is going to run with his military service out front, then it becomes fair game.

I heard that he told the captors everything they wanted to know, thus earning him the name 'songbird'.

Lipzoidal-
That's what Bush Republicans called him in 2000. I thought it was despicable then, and I feel the same way now.
But that has nothing to do with what Clark actually said.

CLARK: -- "publicly?" He hasn't made those calls, Bob.

Sure he has. He pontificated, based on his experience bbq'ing sailors on the Forrestal and singing to the Cong that the Iraq war would be short, cheap and the sunnis and shia would sing kumbaya together.

He was only totally wrong. Almost Bushlike.

Scary to think of a guy so as Mcsame clueless with his finger on the nuclear trigger.

If McCain is making his service part of his qualifications for the presidency, then scrutinize it hardcore. It was fair for Kerry and it's fair for McCain.

Westly Clark is a democratic retread. Those that served with him in NATO have little respect for Clark. He is obviously trying to get an appointment in the Obama administration if Obama should become the first Arab American President.

Bit of a stretch there by Gen. Clark. I was really pushing for him to be the veep, but don't see that happening anymore. IMO Gen. Clark was trying to hard to get that veep slot and just went overboard.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about military career. I am not voting for someone who admittedly doesnt know how to use a computer.....Grampy McCain.

The one goal of a soldier is to: 1) Not Die. 2) Not get captured.

How are you a 'hero' if you fail at your job?

"1) Not Die."

Horseshit.

It's to make the other dumb son-of-a-bitch die.

I heard that he told the captors everything they wanted to know, thus earning him the name 'songbird'.

Jeez, I heard Obama had gay sex and coke parties with his church choirmaster back in the late 1990's, and then had him killed last year when it looked like the whole affair was about to come out...

Oh damn, now see what shameless shit you started, Lipizoidal? Whisper, whisper, whisper....

Being a shitty pilot and a squealer does not a hero make.

Clark is correct. Military service isn't even valuable if you intend to stay involved a pointless war designed to impose democracy on a nation. McCain fought in a war that was lost buy the US. Furthermore he spent the majority of his service in prison and not in war theater.

I have been telling you all this for some time now.

When does crashing your plane make you a hero?

When does giving away military information to the enemy for medical treatment make you a hero?

When does getting a highly sought position in a jet because of who your daddy, make you a hero?

When does losing 5 military aircraft make you a hero?

McCain can run however he wants, but a "war hero" he is not and if he plans on running as a "war hero" he needs to be called out on it.

As an officer in the US Navy, John McCain was a failure. He would have better served this country pumping gas.

Wesley Clark is to the military what Carter is to the Presidency. So consider the source

Manypaths, does your definition of a hero hold true to Kerry and Murtha or just McCain because he is a Repuiblican?

I don't care what political party he is.

Why don't you answer my questions, Political party aside?

How do those question pertain to Kerry?

I do look forward to your effort.

Wesley Clark is to the military what Carter is to the Presidency. So consider the source

Manypaths, does your definition of a hero hold true to Kerry and Murtha or just McCain because he is a Repuiblican?

Where is the "Fucking Hypocrit" Flag?

Why won't the "War Hero" release his Navy records?

If you hear ANYONE mention that McCain is a "War hero", ask to see McCain's Navy records to prove it.

Why won't the "War Hero" release his Navy records?

I served under Clark at SHAPE, albeit not directly and there were rumors no one liked him and he was an asshole.

He's running on the strengths of character, on the strengths of his communication skills, on the strengths of his judgment

In other words, obama has no experience...

Has McCain ever said he was a hero (I'm honestly asking)?

As for experience, McCains time commanding sailors is a hell of a lot more impressive than organizing a community.

By the way, what "community" did Hussein organize. I'd like to find out what the crime rate was, the avergae HH Income, the unemployment rate, and of course the number of empty grape soda cans per block.
My next door neighbor is the block club president. Unfortunately (well, fortunately for me) he's white so he won't be running for the Dem nod in 2012.

So, when somebody gets around to it, the name of the community would be appreciated.

I just heard what Clark, this little scum sucking bastered just said about McCain. This little SHIT HEAD is a ASSHOLE and someone should punch him in the mouth so he can't suck dicks anymore.

You liberals are F-ing nuts.

Anyone who volunteers to serve their country and face death in a war for their country is a hero in my book. That would apply to any Democrat or Republican.

Read this again folks and understand that Egomaniac Wesley Clark is REALLY trying to say which is: I (Wesley Clark) AM QUALIFIED FOR PRESIDENT.

No, being a Navy pilot and subsequent prisoner in a war does NOT qualify you to be President. Neither does being a "Community Organiser" or "turning down a Wall Street job" or being "Black" or being a member of "Black Theology" nor any of the things Barack Obama has done in his life.

Here are the qualifiactions for being President:

You have to be a natural-born US Citizen (a citizen from birth - but not necessarily born in the USA, which is a common misconception).

You have to be at least 35 years of age.

You have to reside in the US for at least 14 years.

Obama on bloomberg TV " I'm going to cancel the Cap gains and dividend tax cuts and restore upward mobility" (The death knoll for the stock and bond markets BTW...)

Now there's a 3 wheeled wagon for you. Upping taxes is going to "restore upward mobility"? That's a pig in a poke FOR SURE. I challenge ANYONE to explain his line of reasoning!

He's running on his other strengths. He's running on the strengths of character, on the strengths of his communication skills, on the strengths of his judgment -- and those are qualities that we seek in our national leadership.

Posted by mcas at 2008-06-30 03:06 PM |

Well--I don't think that working as a community activist and under the Daley machine as a senator for 8 years and one year as US Senator qualifies Obama for anything at all!

He's good at making a speech--his judgment on his pastor for 20 years and bomber of the Pentagon and ACORN and REZKO--are not the traits of any kind of good judgment at all. In fact, it's the worse kind of judgment that my 12 year old son would have better sense to avoid.

Clark is a snake and just lost any chance of him being chosen as VP under Obama. What a sleezebag.

Obama threw him under the bus--so the bus count is up to five and a half for the Obama scumbags.

Where are the McCain Radio and Tv Broadcasts that he recorded for the Vietnamese. This is important to bring out. He cost American lives with his betrayel.

Obama on bloomberg TV " I'm going to cancel the Cap gains and dividend tax cuts and restore upward mobility" (The death knoll for the stock and bond markets BTW...)

LOL. He plans on bringing down rich people which in his view "elevates" poor people.

You have to be at least 35 years of age.

You have to reside in the US for at least 14 years.

I think you should also be able to High-5 someone.

Why won't the "War Hero" release his Navy records?

If you hear ANYONE mention that McCain is a "War hero", ask to see McCain's Navy records to prove it.

Why won't the "War Hero" release his Navy records?

Posted by Manypaths at 2008-06-30 05:55 PM

Hey Many--you friggin idiot!

How about that each time he survived being shot down HE GOT BACK INTO THE PLANE TO FLY AGAIN!!!

The Vietnamese offered to send McCain home and McCain said NO--he would stay with his men, his buddies at the Hanoi Hilton.

He probably saved lives doing this and sacrificed his own freedom for the others who were captured and being tortured.

Many--YOU MF SOB!

Where are the McCain Radio and Tv Broadcasts that he recorded for the Vietnamese. This is important to bring out. He cost American lives with his betrayel.

Posted by denvgray

Last I heard they were in Cheney's office.

I think you should also be able to High-5 someone.

Posted by Manypaths at 2008-06-30 06:22 PM | Reply | F

Fucking classic!

Clark must be PISSED that someone as decorated and experienced as him is not going to be President and someone like Obama might be. That must eat him up bad.

Where did Clark say that McCain was "no hero"?

"I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility."

Sounds like this headline is a lie. Where's Rob The Headline Nazi?

"How about that each time he survived being shot down HE GOT BACK INTO THE PLANE TO FLY AGAIN!!!"

Good for him, and good for us. But that's no reason not to release his war records.

"The Vietnamese offered to send McCain home and McCain said NO--he would stay with his men, his buddies at the Hanoi Hilton."

I appreciate that, especially since he was fighting for my freedoms. But again, not a reason to keep his records private.

"He probably saved lives doing this and sacrificed his own freedom for the others who were captured and being tortured."

Yup, but still...no reason not to release his service records.

Look, it was a huge deal 4 years ago with Kerry. Were the Republicans wrong to demand Kerry's records, or are the Democrats right to demand McCain's? Which is it?

"Clark is someone who I have great respect for and had hope he'd be on the ticket"

Clark is a whore. A Dandy. He spent most of his career dancing around the Pentagon giving blow jobs and stroking egos to gain rank.

If you think Osama should be president because of his experience as a "community organizer" then sure, I can see why you have such great respect for Clark, who also did nothing.

THIS TITLE IS MISLEADING. AT NO POINT DID CLARK SAY MCCAIN WASN'T A HERO.

IN FACT, HE SAID:

"He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war."

Look, it was a huge deal 4 years ago with Kerry. Were the Republicans wrong to demand Kerry's records, or are the Democrats right to demand McCain's? Which is it?

Good question, but let's ask it this way:

Was Kerry wrong in denying to releasing his records or were the Republicans right in asking for it??

Kerry still hasn't released his records!

And so friggin what?

Are you expecting the Vietnamese wrote reports and gave them to the Navy?

And if there were confessions--the enemy would have published them.

Some folks are sooo low.

Clark is at the top of the list--followed by the goofballs here at the DR.

Being a shitty pilot and a squealer does not a hero make.

Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2008-06-30 05:28 PM | Reply

I don't care for McCain as president, but you are ignorant, and an asshole. McCain was shot down on his 23rd mission over North Vietnam. Surviving 22 missions under hostile enemy fire does make a hero.

" appreciate that, especially since he was fighting for my freedoms."

In Vietnam? How so?

"Anyone who volunteers to serve their country and face death in a war for their country is a hero in my book."

But does it mean that said person would make a good president or sound foreign policy choices? Absolutely not. It is possible to honor and respect McCain's military service and still question whether it makes him a quality candidate.

"In Vietnam? How so?"

As a member of the military, under orders from his civilian commanders.

For someone with the handle of Commonsense--you sure don't have any.

Where is the "Fucking Hypocrit" Flag?

Posted by Manypaths at 2008-06-30 05:41 PM | Reply

Perhaps someone is trying to be kind to you and not use it

"Good question, but let's ask it this way:"

Huh? Think of it first next time. But...I'll play. The Rs had every right to see Kerry's records.

Now...where are McCain's?

It is possible to honor and respect McCain's military service and still question whether it makes him a quality candidate.

Posted by jpw at 2008-06-30 06:39 PM

And what pray tell jpw--are the qualifications of one Mr. Barack Hussein Obama?

For the folks who hated this line of attack when it was Kerry--it sure is amazing you would do the same thing to someone else who is a Republican.

Puling hypocrites!

I don't care for McCain as president, but you are ignorant, and an asshole. McCain was shot down on his 23rd mission over North Vietnam. Surviving 22 missions under hostile enemy fire does make a hero.

Posted by vernon at 2008-06-30 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Surviving 22 missions under hostile enemy fire does make a hero"

That's convenient! I guess each and everyone involved in combat is a hero. Funny that you seem so vitriolic when it comes to Kerry serving in Combat, but when it's your parties 5th choice that we're talking about, then he's too holy to be talked about the same way.

Being called 'ignorant' and an 'asshole' from you is quite comical. Remember Sweet-Tits, I'm just parroting the SAME EXACT WORDS that your fellow righties have used here to describe the 'traitor' with the 'black love child'.

Get your own house in order before you you feign shock and horror at my comments.

For someone with the handle of Commonsense--you sure don't have any.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-30 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

"" appreciate that, especially since he was fighting for my freedoms."

The war in Vietnam had nothing to do with fighting for Americans' freedom.

Murphy-
There is no part of McCain's service that Clark "questioned". (which is more than I can say for the rabid Bushlings of 2000)

Fighting for one less communist country is fighting for that one country to be a democracy.

So yeah--that is fighting for our freedoms.

If you get too many friggin dictatorships or communists running the countries around the world--that could and would end up with less freedoms for the US.

Murphy-
So you see "fighting for our freedoms" as offensive in nature, ie - we go to other lands to impose our freedoms by force, (in self-defence)?

Fighting for one less communist country is fighting for that one country to be a democracy.

So yeah--that is fighting for our freedoms.

Would somebody kindly tell Murphy this is now 2008.

Bullshit, Murphy. Vietnam had nothing to do with "fighting for democracy." The U.S. government supported rightwing thugs in Saigon all along.

Boyd--

What Clark said and his tone was derogatory to McCain and his service to this country.

Like McCain is holding his being "shot down 5 times" and held prisoner to be a qualification.

He just couldn't keep his mouth shut--and Obama sacrificed Clark because he wanted this out in the MSM.

And while we are at it--why didn't Obama serve? Oh he was too busy being a community activist and playing pool.

This is going to back fire because McCain does keep the subject on his service and his long experience in the Senate--both of which Obama has NOTHING!

Obama dutifully threw Clark under the bus.

Hey Murphy, how did losing the Vietnam war diminish your freedoms?

Murphy-
Did Clark say McCain was, "shot down 5 times"? If not, I'm not sure who you are quoting.

Null--I am not going to entertain your revisionist history of the Vietnam war.

It started with the French and then Eisenhower, then Kennedy then Johnson and ended with Nixon.

The reason given was to stave off another communist country.

This is personal--phuck Clark and phuck you!

"The reason given was to stave off another communist country."

The reason given?

?????

What was the real reason, then?

"And what pray tell jpw--are the qualifications of one Mr. Barack Hussein Obama?"

Did I say Obama would be a better president or that he is eminently qualified? I was commenting on the ridiculous notion that questioning whether his military experience is as valuable as is being made out is equal to slandering it entirely.

And why don't you call McCain his full name, John Sidney McCain? Fuckin hack...

There was no reason.

To rise alone.

We are always risen.

From the seeds we've sown.

OH ROKY!

Sidney?

Shit, we'll suffer for that too if McCain is elected.

"Null--I am not going to entertain your revisionist history of the Vietnam war."

You're always unintentionally entertaining, Murphy. Now answer the question. How did losing the war diminish your freedom?

Yes Boyd--

He said,

"I don't think flying around in a fighter plane getting shot down 5 times..."

They have been showing his video with Scheifer all day long on all the channels.

"The reason given was to stave off another communist country."

The reason given?

?????

What was the real reason, then?

Posted by BetelG at 2008-06-30 07:09 PM

Boyd--that is the reason--Null says it wasn't.

I'll take Sidney over Hussein every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

""The reason given was to stave off another communist country."

In other words it was a proxy war that had nothing to do with freedom or democracy.

Murphy-
Point me to the video of the "shot down five times", please.

"getting shot down 5 times"

So?
-Chuck Yeager

Null--I am not going to entertain your revisionist history of the Vietnam war.

It started with the French and then Eisenhower, then Kennedy then Johnson and ended with Nixon.

The reason given was to stave off another communist country.

This is personal--phuck Clark and phuck you!

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-30 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

Tis a funny thing about America. We just LOVEEEEE to tell other Countries how they should run their Country. Bt another Country dictating how we should run ours and the people get all indignant and say how dare they tell us how to run Our Country. How uppity of them. Why that is blasphamious to the nth degree. Funny dat Be.

Larry Mohr

"Kerry still hasn't released his records!"

Wrong(again)....

W. Clark is a hypocrite. Doesn't anyone remember that when he was running (and lost, of course) that he based his campaign on one thing???

MILITARY SERVICE RECORD.

Yeah--Null don't you feel good that 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam and another 2.5 million were slaughtered when the Dems voted to cut off the funding?

All because it was a proxy war--for who?

Against the Soviets? Are they not communists?

Would it not have been good for a country that was being oppressed under communism to have one friggin friend to come to their aid?

The war was managed horribly and our country suffered greatly.

But that doesn't give you license to denegrate and spit on people who served in Vietnam.

My Dad came thisclose to being shot down saving another pilot. So when I say this is personal--the attacks on McCain--I mean it.

Murphy-
I've listened to the entire interview and couldn't find the "shot down five times" bit.

Can you help me out with why you said Clark said that?

And of course JFK got his PT Boat shot up and that qualified him to be CiC.

Where is the indignation over that?

Obama has no military experience at all.

You cannot question McCain loyalty to this country and there are sure as hell questions about the Obama man who never served and sits around for 20 years with bombers and pastors who hates AmeriKKK and Rezko to get a deal on his property.

"Null don't you feel good that 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam "

Why would I feel good about that, dumbass? My side wanted to bring the troops home.

"2.5 million were slaughtered when the Dems voted to cut off the funding?"

That's bullshit.

Nobody here is denigrating those who served in Vietnam, so stop lying.

He said,

"I don't think flying around in a fighter plane getting shot down 5 times..."

They have been showing his video with Scheifer all day long on all the channels.

Murphy-
Are you sure the "shot down five times" slur wasn't from Republican Bushites in the 2000 Republican primaries (along with the "Manchurian candidate" fun and the illegitimate black baby bit)?

Minutia notwithstanding, 'Nam was a proxy war against Communist expansionism.

Granted, the CIA grossly overstated Soviet strength. Nevertheless, Communism was (and still is) a human tragedy. Over 100 million murdered in the name of the workers' paradise.

We can denigrate US foreign policy all day long; particularly in regards to the countless failures of the CIA to provide accurate intelligence - and we'd speak a fair amount of truth in doing so. Nevertheless, the US was right to oppose Communism - oppose it with every tool within her arsenal.

Where did Clark say that McCain was "no hero"?

Upon further review, I think you're right that the hed overstates the comments Clark made. I rewrote it to "Clark: McCain Never Led in Wartime."

"And of course JFK got his PT Boat shot up and that qualified him to be CiC."

That made him neither qualified or disqualified. Just like McCain's experience does not qualify him or disqualify him.

Murphy-
I also Googled 'Wesley Clark and "shot down five times"', and I get nada regarding McCain.

Why would I feel good about that, dumbass? My side wanted to bring the troops home.......Nobody here is denigrating those who served in Vietnam, so stop lying.

Your side denigrated the shit out of those who were serving at that time.

Jeff J-
Do you think we should have nuked them?

"2.5 million were slaughtered when the Dems voted to cut off the funding?"

That's bullshit.

Nobody here is denigrating those who served in Vietnam, so stop lying.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-06-30 07:31 PM | Reply

That's not BS--that is the friggin truth.

Right on Murphy and Humanear. On another note, it's perfect that we're actually talking about Wesley Clark's distorted view of McCain's service record - if there is one thing that McCain is solid on, it is his service to our country.

Barack is a turd for "backing out" of his strong consideration for having Town Hall style debates. He knows his strength is on the podium and that McCain is a disaster on the podium. I suppose these are the politics of change, but it seems less intimate to me. It would be great to see McCain and Obama in Town Hall style meetings at least 6 times between now and November. No moderators, just a clock and the audience. This would truly test both candidates and give the American people the opportunity to truly evaluate both candidates on merit and substance.

"I don't think flying around in a fighter plane getting shot down 5 times..."

Nope. Clark didn't say what's in your quotes.

Are you comfortable with your loose regard for facts?

Obama has no military experience at all. -Murphy

You don't say?

What proportion of 47 year old men do?

It could be a good thing that he doesn't, but you can't get into that, can you?

Do you think we should have nuked them?

What??

"Minutia notwithstanding, 'Nam was a proxy war against Communist expansionism. "

It was a proxy war against a rival superpower. It had nothing to do with communism or democracy or freedom. The Soviet Union could've been a fascist capitalist state as far as the U.S. was concerned. This was geopolitical power politics with the sole goal of maintaining U.S. global domination.

It had nothing to do with communism

Actually, it had much to do with Communism.

Other than that, I agree with the remainder of your post.

Boyd--go to the you tube and play the friggin interview. He said it.

And McCain's experience is wholly better than Obamas --who has none-nil-zilch-nada-nin-zero!

This is coming from the man who almost started World War III????!!!!

"But General Clark's plan was blocked by General Sir Mike Jackson, K-For's British commander.

"I'm not going to start the Third World War for you," he reportedly told General Clark during one heated exchange."

And McCain's experience is wholly better than Obamas --who has none-nil-zilch-nada-nin-zero!

So Murph....are you suggesting that Obama lacks experience?

;-)

"That's not BS--that is the friggin truth.

www.aiipowmia.com

Remember the killing fields??--1975??--evacuation?-
- because the Dems wouldn't provide any more funding for the South?? Any of this ringing a bell?"

Now you're changing the subject to Cambodia. Given that the U.S. paved the way for the Khmer Rouge by destabilizing the Cambodian government, by a massive bombing campaign, and by invasion, that's probably not a good idea. Especially considering the U.S. supported the Khmer Rouge and it took the North Vietnamese to drive them out.

"Upon further review, I think you're right that the hed overstates the comments Clark made. I rewrote it to "Clark: McCain Never Led in Wartime."

You can always count on fair headlines from Rcade, regardless of what Rob The Headline Nazi says.

Null,

Good catch regarding Cambodia vs. 'Nam.

Regarding 'Nam....

Although the carnage wasn't as severe as predicted, a couple of hundred thousand S. Vietnamese 'lost' during the 're-education' period plus the "boat people" who fled and then subjected to brutal piracy is nothing to sneeze at.

Funny that you seem so vitriolic when it comes to Kerry serving in Combat, but when it's your parties 5th choice that we're talking about

Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2008-06-30 06:45 PM | Reply

How lame and pathetic you are. Desperate to put me on the defensive, I can see.

1. My party? Who is the candidate for the Independent, non-aligned Conservatives? I did not get that letter.
2. Kerry? Is he running for president too?

Does the fact that he faked injuries to get Purple Hearts and escaped further combat have ANYTHING to do with A nAVAL AVIATOR WHO WAS SHOT DOWN AFTER 22 SUCCESSFUL MISSIONS?

3. Read my post: I'm not a McCain supporter

4. You are a dick, and not in the way a girl likes

Null,

Just as long as you don't try to sic Rob on my headlines, you and I won't have problems!

;-)

Jeff-
Over a million S.Vietnamese "'lost'" by dying for "freedom", as Murphy describes it.

YAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!

THEY CHANGED THE HEADLINE!!!

GOOD WORK, MODS!

Jeff-
...but they probably would have died in a worse communistic way later, so I guess our bombs are full of mercy as well as chock-full of freedom.

Murphy-
You can't find where he said, "I don't think flying around in a fighter plane getting shot down 5 times..." etc., because he didn't say it.

So who did, or did you just make it up and put it in quotes without really understanding that you were stating as verifiable fact that Clark said that?

Murphy never gets tired of making a fool of herself.

It sucks, because I happen to really respect her, but lately she's losin it.

Bet,

You raise some fair points.

I don't pretend that US intentions regarding 'Nam were 100% noble; not even close.

Nevertheless, until the end of the Cold War, our government, regardless of who occupied the White House, treated the thread of Communist expansionism as a grave threat.

Fact is, 'Nam was less dubious than some of our adventures in Latin America (post-Ike).

A lot of the foreign policy woes of the US can be attributed to the CIA. A truly effective intelligence agency requires a degree of secrecy and non-Democratic authority that is simply not a good fit for our degree of government transparency. Couple that with a culture of CYA at all costs and it's no wonder that time and time again presidents have made bad decisions based upon terrible intel.

Anyhow, it's easy for all of us to be armchair quarterbacks.

Boyd--

I just ran thru the you tube--

Hey BetelG You got to remember the right don't care about how many US Bombs kill. They just say oh that's no big deal it's just collateral damage. It's not a big deal at all. AMericans are too God damned arrogant for Her own Good.

Larry Mohr

They cut the part out that he said "5 times".

Of course they did, sweetie....

Was McCain shot down 5 times?

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-30 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why don't you look it up?

Anyhow, it's easy for all of us to be armchair quarterbacks.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-06-30 08:08 PM |

The founders rejected that philosophy, though it's hard to tell these days, what with the "moderate" authoritarians running around from station to station dispensing conventional wisdom.

"They cut the part out that he said "5 times".

You can read his lips and the sound is different from his word and mouth."

And what's the time on that video when this happens?

"I don't believe riding around a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification."

Boyd--is this something that is less derogatory than adding "5 times" in the statement?

Boyd--is this something that is less derogatory than adding "5 times" in the statement?

No, it isn't.

Nevertheless, Boyd has a tendency toward parsing semantics and asking a lot of meaningless questions in lieu of making declarative statements and actually engaging in to-and-fro discourse.

If not, then why didn't you use the actual quote instead of using and defending the fake one ad nauseam?

Where'd you get the "quote", and will you trust them as a factual source in the future??

Later all.

asking a lot of meaningless questions

Meaningless to you, maybe.

parsing semantics

When it's a quote attributed to a person, the words (within quotation marks!) are all there is.

Shall I make up some quotes and attribute tham to Jeff or Murphy and then argue that it's in the spirit of what they actually said?

I mis-heard the "5 times"--I could swear he said it--must be the slurring of his accent.

It doesn't take away his derogatory tone and Clark is an idiot.

"I don't believe riding around a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification for president".

"I don't believe riding around a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification for president".

It isn't.

If you get too many friggin dictatorships or communists running the countries around the world--that could and would end up with less freedoms for the US.

Posted by MURPHY

This chick murphy is too far gone. Give her a break, guys.

Murphy-
What came of this?

They cut the part out that he said "5 times".

You can read his lips and the sound is different from his word and mouth.

"I don't believe riding around a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification."

He said 5 times--I just heard it on Savage!

Was McCain shot down 5 times?

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-30 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Was McCain shot down 5 times?

McCain destroyed 5 planes while in the military.

First, as a student pilot, he crashed while trying to land in Corpus Christi. Pilot error.

Second, he lost a plane after hitting a power line near the Iberian Peninsula. Again, pilot error.

While flying back from the Army/Navy football game McCain crashed a third plane due to unspecified "mechanical failures". Spud calls this "covered up pilot error".

The fourth was on the USS Forrestal. Allegation have been made that it was John Sidney McCain III who wet-started his jet that caused the missile on the jet behind him to tske off and hit the ship. Of course the official story is that it was the fault of the guy behind him. Many servicemen were killed in the subsequent fire.

The fifth and final one was when he was shot down over North Vietnam during his 23rd mission on Oct. 26, 1967.

20 hours of air combat in total.

5 dead planes.

He got 28 medals fer all that.

If he hadn't been the son and grandson of Admirals he prolly would not have been given all those chances.

No hero.

He a hero only in the same way Dumbya is a cowboy.

He's a fake one.

Don't be fooled again.

Be Well.

This is a huge mistake for Obama to go after McCain --his service and loyalty for the country.

The only fake person is the empty suit Obama.

So since Obama says he won't question anyone's patriotism in this campaign--will he quit since he sent Clark out there to do just that?

Oh that's right--he threw Clark under the bus.

will he quit since he sent Clark out there to do just that?

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Obama is a fake --this is surrogate talk--same as Obama talk.

He said months ago that Obama didn't have the qualifications to the POTUS--when he was rooting for Hillary.

He is a snake.

"This is a huge mistake for Obama to go after McCain --his service and loyalty for the country."

It would be a mistake if he did that, but he hasn't, so what the fuck are you talking about?

Shall I make up some quotes and attribute tham to Jeff or Murphy and then argue that it's in the spirit of what they actually said?

Accuracy is important, I'll give you that.

Nevertheless, Murph backed off (indirectly) the '5 times' comment and asked point-blank that if removing the '5 times' comment made the comment any less derogatory. Yet, you still continue to harp on the '5 times' comment after it's no longer important to the topic at hand.

At what point do you move on from that and actually address her point?

"since he sent Clark out there to do just that?"

When are you going to stop lying?

"This is a huge mistake for Obama to go after McCain --his service and loyalty for the country."

Obama always praises McCain's service to his country and never "goes after" him as regards his military record.

If you'd paid even the slightest bit of attention wotsoever you would know this.

That sed, Spud aint Obama walking the political tightrope of expressable opinion and thus Spud feels perfectly free to speak his mind on the PTSD case, non-hero, cover-up artist and loser aka John McCain.

And Spud aint alone in that.

Be Well.

"Nevertheless, Murph backed off (indirectly) the '5 times' comment....."

Was that before or after she accused unnamed nefarious forces for altering the audio?

Hey hey hey...Let's all agree Obama isn't yellow....

Clark is a surrogate for Obama--if you don't think this was planned out--I have some farm land in Iowa for you.

Clark was derogatory and being an ass for saying that McCain's service does nothing to qualify him for POTUS.

Which is hugely amazing since it only highlights the fact that Obama did nothing except put up posters as a community activist and play pool in the hood.

Bet,

I cede your point regarding the inaccuracy of the quote.

Are you willing to finally push that aside and address the broader point?

Ms. Murphy, as is her wont, tends to make many statements of "fact" that turn out to be not so factual. Just like on this particular thread where she declared Kerry never released his military records (false), and swore that Clark said McCain was shot down 5 times (also false).

This happens so often and yet she is baffled as to why no one thinks she has any credibility as we try to discern which are the lies and which are simply the unquestioned talking points she throws out.

Obama always praises McCain's service to his country and never "goes after" him as regards his military record.

That's true. Just as Bush praised and defended Kerry's service all-the-while having his surrogates trash Kerry's service.

This is the same thing, although on a much smaller scale. So far.

MURPHY ROCKS. Consider her opinion and quit being small leftie dicks.