And in response Rendell founds "Hound" "Hillary/Obama United Not Divided"

She's baaaaaaack!

"that anti-democratic process -- where party officials decided early in the process, based on rules and exceptions to the rules, who they wanted to win --"

And with that one sentence, all possible credibility is down the drain.

Anyone with half a brain, and a modicum of knowledge about the party rules and processes knows that (1) these rules were in effect LONG before Barack Obama was more than a blip on the radar screen, and (2) one of the primary movers and shakers in creating and shaping the party rules was... Harold Ickes.

Pathetic.

I think a Hillary/Bloomberg indy ticket would be better. But he would have to pay her debts first.

These clowns are welcomed guess on Fox News, I wonder why???? There is no core to these people, if they can vote for McCain with all of the differences between himself an Sen. Clinton, than fuck um....See you on Faux Noise.....

In all honesty PUMA/H44/NQ and all the rest of the blogs if you monitor them (as I do cause I have nothing else to do for eight hours a day right now, my boss is retiring), it is the same posters, it is a clique of I would guess about 50 folks (and that is being generous) they keep talking about "millions of people" and "we are 18 million strong" but in actual fact they are about 50 strong, and while they are amusing to watch (the folks over at NQ are akin to watching a kitten chasing its tail in a bathtub), they are pretty much irrelevant to what is going to happen in November. Now don't tell them that "we are a movement we are 18 million people who will not be denied!" spit spit spit spit spit. You get the idea.

Rogers, the lead you wrote is incorrect, and appears to be attributed to me:

A group of Clinton supporters have begun the group Party Unity My Ass (PUMA), which advocates a McCain-Clinton ticket.

Bower is quite clear that PUMA is committed only to not voting for Obama, that there's a lot of diversity within PUMA, and that the McCain-Clinton ticket is something that only he and some PUMA members support:

Q: But Ok... What's the goal, exactly? The main objective? Is it to get Clinton the nomination or to defeat Obama or...

Well the coalition is diverse. I can't speak for everyone. Some will certainly be voting for McCain and are advocating that route. Others will write-in Hillary. Some will vote for third party candidates. But all the groups are very much united in not voting for Obama. The diverse groups are getting along. The number one rule is that no P.U.M.A. voter will cast a ballot for Obama, presently. If he has Hillary as vice president, well then each P.U.M.A. voter, of course, will make that decision.
Many, like myself, want to see a McCain-Clinton ticket, which would be as politically radical as F.D.R.-- It would be a true crack in the system, real change...

Anyone with half a brain, and a modicum of knowledge about the party rules and processes knows that (1) these rules were in effect LONG before Barack Obama was more than a blip on the radar screen, and (2) one of the primary movers and shakers in creating and shaping the party rules was... Harold Ickes. -- CalifChris

Nothing in the rules precluded re-votes in Florida and Michigan.

"Nothing in the rules precluded re-votes in Florida and Michigan."

Which has nothing to do with the proverbial price of tea in China. The premise set forth by the article was...

"where party officials decided early in the process, based on rules and exceptions to the rules, who they wanted to win -"

Which, as I pointed out, is complete BS. The whiners are trying to say that somehow the deck was stacked against Hillary from the outset by rules and processes that favored someone else.

At the time the rules were established, there WAS no someone else - she was the prohibitive favorite. And most of the rules and processes were designed and implemented by the Clinton faithful of the party.

Oh, and I doubt CC would appreciate you attributing my comment to her.

Oh, and I doubt CC would appreciate you attributing my comment to her. -- San An

Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry CC!

"At the time the rules were established, there WAS no someone else - she was the prohibitive favorite. And most of the rules and processes were designed and implemented by the Clinton faithful of the party."

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-06-28 11:36 PM

link? It makes no difference who made up the rules--they have been in place long before Clinton was a blip on the rad3ar in 1992. The dem primary has never benn held like the general election, or like the republican primary. The dem primary gives too much weight to the red states, and Obama is the red state candidate--not the blue state candidate. That's why this election is so close. ALL indicators pointed toward Clinton as the strongest candidate---ALL INDICATORS---except the flawed dem primary.

Again, I am very happy with Obama as candidate. It is the rest of the country that has doubts. Those doubts were not shown by Clinton supporters, and Clinton was still far ahead of where Obama shows now in the polls.

The whiners are trying to say that somehow the deck was stacked against Hillary from the outset -- San An

No, Bower said that, and also said he doesn't speak for all of PUMA.

Yes, of course, it's silly to suggest that the rules were stacked against Clinton from the onset. But in fact, re-votes were within the rules and the DNC instead opted to favor Obama by disenfranchising voters.

"Yes, of course, it's silly to suggest that the rules were stacked against Clinton from the onset."

And yet that's the portion of the article you chose to highlight for the summary.

BBob

Everything you just wrote is true. I'm not picking one side or the other with either of them -- just looking at the hard facts and you're correct. I feel the polls and stats are way too close -- much closer than they should be for any Democrat presidential candidate going up against an unpopular McCain and the horrendous legacy left by eight years of the Bush Administration. So close it leaves no room for error.

And yet that's the portion of the article you chose to highlight for the summary. -- San An

C'mon, you're too smart to get stuck on this. I highlighted Bower's comments about the DNC's skewing the primary for Obama because (1) they did, (2) the comparison to the Bush 2000 win is apt, and (3) I've been harping about the same thing for months.

So Bower got a minor detail wrong. Rogers got a major point wrong when he rewrote the lead, and you don't seem to be in an uproar over that.

If you ever needed to make a choice between McCain or Obama take a look at the war plans Israel has in store for us. The last guy they want is Obama because AGAIN they are trying to drag the U.S. into yet another war in another Middle Eastern country, this time Iran. Who's after Iran? Do we then nuke Syria for Israel? Then Egypt and after them Jordan? Does it ever stop? It seems Israel won't be happy until every single Muslim country is a parking lot. Nothing against Israeli people but I'm sure fed up with their government always using us for their wars. Iran is no threat to the U.S. It's weapons cannot reach our country. If Israel wants to take out Iran then they can do it themselves.

Here's a short clip from the article:

...Despite offering incentives, the West has failed to persuade Iran to stop enriching uranium. Israeli officials believe the diplomatic process is useless and have been pressing President Bush to launch air strikes before he leaves office on January 20 next year.

They apparently fear that the chances of winning American approval for an air attack will be drastically reduced if the Democratic nominee wins the election. Mr Obama advocates talks with the regime in Tehran rather than military action.

That view was echoed by Mr Shavit, who said: "If [Republican candidate John] McCain gets elected, he could really easily make a decision to go for it. If it's Obama: no. My prediction is that he won't go for it, at least not in his first term in the White House

"Hell No: P.U.M.A. Spokesman Will Bower on Post-Clinton Party Unity" - Original article headline.

"Will Bower is spokesperson for P.U.M.A., which stands for "party unity my ass," an organization he founded and launched on Facebook and that is made up largely of Hillary Clinton supporters." - First paragraph of article.

So exactly how is Rogers' headline so misleading?

"So Bower got a minor detail wrong"

No, he got a MAJOR premise wrong. And you jumped on it.

If you really consider that a minor detail, then there's really not much to discuss.

Oh wait - I see. You're talking about the content of the actual summary and saying Rogers changed it.

I've seen him change headlines before, but never seen him alter the content of a summary. Strange.

and you guys still cant get over 2000......what a bunch of knuckleheads.........

PUMA is a bunch of sore loser fems.

"and you guys still cant get over 2000......what a bunch of knuckleheads........."

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-06-29 01:02 AM | Reply

The thousands who have died in Iraq since 2000 can't seem to get over it either. They are the real losers in that election. All I have to worry about is $5.00 gas and paying more taxes than the rich. Probably the only campaign promise W has kept---too bad he made the promise to oil companies and his rich buddies.

I think Obama puts America first--very refreshing.

CalifChris

someone was telling me the other day that if an attempt is made on Obama, it will most likely come the barrel of an Israeli weapon.

Phx you lost get over it. your votes don't count. say hello to the glass ceiling.

The thousands who have died in Iraq since 2000 can't seem to get over it either. They are the real losers in that election. All I have to worry about is $5.00 gas and paying more taxes than the rich. Probably the only campaign promise W has kept---too bad he made the promise to oil companies and his rich buddies.

I think Obama puts America first--very refreshing.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008

jibberish......right off a moyers or mahr telecast.
can you get one of the 'senior economy correspondents' from the daily show to say this too

Ummmmmm BLT You get more ACTUAL news from The Daily Show than You do on Foxnews. Funny Dat Be.

Larry Mohr

Blt

It is obvious Bush doesn't put America first, and neither do you.

Obama couldn't be any worse--at least he isn't buddies with the bin Ladens. At least the bin Ladens didn't bail him out of a business problem. HW Bush was having a meeting with a bin Laden family member on the morning of 9/10.

Oh boo hoo! You lost - get over it.

mwmfatherof4

Do you think you won? War--countries bailing out on the dollar--economy in the shitter--4.00 gas. Was that your goal?

mwmfatherof4

mwmfatherof4 is wetting his pants at the thought that his government, Foxnewscorp, and the talkradio attack dogs might have been wrong about most everything the last seven years.

newsflash: everyone in the world knows it already. Anger-denial-acceptance.

These clowns are welcomed guess on Fox News, I wonder why???? There is no core to these people, if they can vote for McCain with all of the differences between himself an Sen. Clinton, than fuck um....See you on Faux Noise.....

Posted by celisary at 20

uh excuse butthole..

on fox news sunday we have heard ed rendel and tom portman and bob barr......from a clinton supporter turned for obama to a former bushman republican rep and the libertarian candidate........
you cant get more fair and balanced than that....
and in fact, later I wil give you my full report on the sunday news shows.
I am sure you are all waiting breathlessly for THAT........

Ummmmmm BLT You get more ACTUAL news from The Daily Show than You do on Foxnews. Funny Dat Be.

Larry Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr at

uh larry.....bud....you are a good guy but you really do yourslef no favors when you say something like this........
its a comedy show, sir, and every piece of film that you see HAS BEEN DOCTORED AND EDITED to make a 'funny' and usually at the rightwing expense.
ALTHOUGH to be fair....he does go after the left when he can get a laugh........

"Funny Dat Be."

Larry...how long have you been a Spudkins understudy? You know what would be great? If you could master his third person writing skills, coupled with your caps trick, it would make YOU the the biggest joke on the DR istead of just an also-ran.

AND IT just so happens that meet the press is now on.....and LARRY>.....remember the lineup on fox...
well on Meet the press.
they are starting off with TWO DEMOCRAT GOVERNORs....are you telling me they couldnt find ONE REPUBLICAN GOV to go after them?
YES......in the next segment they have a republican gov....ARNOLD.......oh please.......a "kennedy republican" is going to be balanced to the liberal dems on RIGHT NOW........
and on MTP they NEVER HAVE THEM GO TOE TO TOE like they do on fox....what a bunch of pussies.......

Rogers, the lead you wrote is incorrect, and appears to be attributed to me ...

Sorry about that. I've corrected it. I had trouble figuring out what PUMA wants.

Exuse me but I think the article is about broad ass's loss to Obama.

My appology, I misspelled Excuse:

Excuse me but I think the article is about Hilary's loss to Obama.

My appology, I misspelled Excuse:
Excuse me but I think the article is about Hillary's loss to Obama.
--------------

Oh dear, Sambarber and Buff Bob have me upset - I have now misspelled apology! My God people! She lost!

I wonder if this was a P.U.M.A.'s operation.

Vandals spray-painted "Obama Smokes Crack" and other hate messages on 60 city vehicles parked across the street from City Hall in downtown Orlando.

Investigators said the vandals painted the messages -- which appear to be politically motivated -- after dark Saturday night.

It would make me more inclined to vote for him. If this type of person doesn't like him that speaks well for Obama. Perhaps it was some of the angry broads.

where party officials decided early in the process, based on rules and exceptions to the rules, who they wanted to win

Was that around the point where Hillary had 200 pledged superdelegates before the first vote was cast in Iowa??

"BUSHLOVERTWO".....If you really believe that Fox News is "Fair And Balanced"..you are one of the last fools that believe that. Even Fox employees admit that they lean way over to the Right. I also watch the Fox program this morning how about that Fair and Balanced group to discuss the weekly happenings in politics.

BRET HUME...RIGHT WING HACK
MARA LIASSON...THE ONLY RIGHT WINGER ON NPR
BILL KRISTOL...NEO-CON RACIST PRICK
JUAN WILLIAMS...FOX NEWS BOY TOY
CHRIS WALLACE...TRIES TO BE FAIR, BUT LEANS TO THE RIGHT........

ABC BY THE WAY IN THERE DISCUSSION HAD TWO LIBERALS AN TWO CONSERVATIVES AS GUEST....

Fair an Balanced my ASS!!!

and finnaly little georgie.

vanden houvel and adriana huffington and byron york and hugh hewit

vanden houvel. with the nation
huffington with the huffington post
yorkan ex clintoniste
hugh hewit....talk radio

yeah boy....thats some real balanced debating......

and of course huffington drug out the old talk radio smears and vanden houvel just needs a stiff one up the ass.....
byron york REALLY needs to iron out that bigass curl on the right side of his head

and AS YOU MIGHT EXPECT ME TO SAY.......hewit kicked their ass with the facts....(Im joking)

ABC BY THE WAY IN THERE DISCUSSION HAD TWO LIBERALS AN TWO CONSERVATIVES AS GUEST....

GIVE ME THIER NAMES......

I saw rohmn emanual..... a raging socialist
and the guy with him was a mealy mouth moderate

then there was nader......a wacked out has been who knows what.......ANYTHING but a conservative..

so who were these two and two's???????

and of course exchanges between hume and williams are legendary as to their complete polar opposites on most issues......
and maura has great looking lips.,,,,,so dont mess with her......( wow....was that a sexist statement or what?)

and wallace is a great questioner.
just this morning he went after rendel about obama's flips.....and then went right after portman for the same 'charge' and he did it with the same veracity....something brokow certainly didnt and I think little georgie is intimidated with arianna and vander houvel.........

BRET HUME...RIGHT WING HACK
MARA LIASSON...THE ONLY RIGHT WINGER ON NPR
BILL KRISTOL...NEO-CON RACIST PRICK
JUAN WILLIAMS...FOX NEWS BOY TOY

and lets look at yo.

a right wing hack only because you dont agree with him.....what a simpleton way to look at issues and people with opinions contrary to yours

mara.......I disagree that she is a rightwinger. I mIGHT call her as middle as possible for npr and OF COURSE if they arent raging socialist, you THINK they are rightwing...

krystol......if you are calling someone names like this at least SPELL THE FUCKING THING RIGHT....
and again....typical liberal jibberish.....you disagree, then the right is racist and a dick....another immature and ignorant way of looking at issues and people who with opinions contrary to your own

and juan.....you call him a BOY toy and then have the gall to acccuse someone else of being racists...

as I have said on numerous occasions..

you are sick and in need of some professional help.HEY maybe redneck can help you out.......

BRET HUME...RIGHT WING HACK
MARA LIASSON...THE ONLY RIGHT WINGER ON NPR
BILL KRISTOL...NEO-CON RACIST PRICK
JUAN WILLIAMS...FOX NEWS BOY TOY

and lets look at yo.

a right wing hack only because you dont agree with him.....what a simpleton way to look at issues and people with opinions contrary to yours

mara.......I disagree that she is a rightwinger. I mIGHT call her as middle as possible for npr and OF COURSE if they arent raging socialist, you THINK they are rightwing...

krystol......if you are calling someone names like this at least SPELL THE FUCKING THING RIGHT....
and again....typical liberal jibberish.....you disagree, then the right is racist and a dick....another immature and ignorant way of looking at issues and people who with opinions contrary to your own

and juan.....you call him a BOY toy and then have the gall to acccuse someone else of being racists...

as I have said on numerous occasions..

you are sick and in need of some professional help.HEY maybe redneck can help you out.......

Celery is crazier than a shit-house rat.
Is there any doubt he angrily mutters to himself as he walks down the street?

I'll bet he rides a 3 speed bike with a giant orange flag on it.

Sorry about that. I've corrected it. -- rcade

Thanks.

I had trouble figuring out what PUMA wants.

It's remarkable how little understanding there is between many Clinton and Obama supporters. (I don't mean this sarcastically -- I'm equally mystified, but from the other side.)

I hope PUMA's members go ahead and vote for anyone but the Democratic Nominee but I hope they are at least honest enough to admit that down the road when they will no longer be considered Democrats and will be left behind when Obama wins and begins repairing the damage left behind the Bush AND Clinton administrations.

More like Poor Useless Menopausal Assholes really

Larry

It seems that rather than having embraced the truth that blind loyalty to a party for any voter is counter productive, they are just pissed that their person didn't win the nomination.

"Because Hillary didn't win the nomination, I'm going to vote for someone who believes all the opposite things she believes. Someone who will nominate Supreme Court justices who will take away women's rights. Someone who will back tax cuts for the wealthiest, 100 years in Iraq, and more of Bush's cowboy diplomacy. And someone who will veto all the legislation Hillary would have backed. That'll show 'em!"

-Pumette

Its pretty clear the Clinton's want McCain to win. It is within the Clinton's power to make sure these groups are dissolved. But they won't. They'll distance themselves in an imaginary way and hope they help to bring down Obama.

According to the article, these people started a group opposed to Clinton aligning with Obama, and called the group "Off The Bus".

I can't believe it.... "Bus"?! "BUS"?!!! What kind of code word is THAT? What a racially charged term to use. Everybody knows that blacks were forced to sit at the back of the bus for years. This whisper campaign, this campaign of using racially-charged words, has GOT TO STOP!! Racial harmony is the lynch pin of our society. Don't let the racists in the Clinton camp ruin it.

these people started a group opposed to Clinton aligning with Obama, and called the group "Off The Bus". -- se4ny

Danforth had it exactly right with his 9:50 post.

Fortunately, their lunacy is thoroughly obscured by their irrelevance.