NO SHIT SHERLOCK what gave them the first clue. Question however is warranted. Why are 25% of Americans STUPID??

Larry Mohr

Larry, the profundity of your retorts never ceases to spawn a deep, deep sense of awe

Damn trool breath stinks to high heaven. I wonder if Listerine makes a mouthwash that kills trool breath. Doubtful.

Larry

Just as I said . . .

Bush is not alone, Greenspan deserves his share of the blame too. Buth should be serving time in Leavenworth.

Stifle thyself Danni. I live in Kansas. I don't need My beautiful air pollutted by these fuckers.

Larry Mohr

Which Bush economic policies do you have heartburn with?

Yes. YOu are right. It is Bush's fault that morons bought houses they couldn't afford. If anything these fuckers should be sent to jail for knowingly buying a house that was above their pay grade

"Why are 25% of Americans STUPID??"

You have it backwards, Larry. I think the 75% who think Bush is totally responsible for oil prices, terrorism and everything else ALSO think Bush went down to New Orleans, put on a wet suit, and dynamited the levee. Besides, I thought you were working with BuffaloBoob in trying to solve the fake moon landing controversy. Or...maybe you're still trying to find Lokisfur or whatever his name is?

It is a poll. the current president will always take the fall for a slumping economy. I'm not defending bush for anything but simply reminding you all that it is a poll.

YOu are right. It is Bush's fault that morons bought houses they couldn't afford.

The policy of the Bush Admin to drive homeownership included putting Greenspan out there pushing opening up alternative financing options. The mortgage industry took that to heart, offering loans to people with no checking of their financial records, proliferating zero down, interest only, and ARM loans. The MI, Bush and too many American's bet the housing market would continue to rise. It didn't. Semantics be damned, it was policy.

Which Bush economic policies do you have heartburn with?

Tax breaks during war - not one, but two.
Borrowing out the ying-yang from China and Japan to finance our debt.
Driving the debt to 2X what it was when he came into office.
Not allowing negotiation for drug prices (Medicare Part-D)
Resultant increase in poverty for America.
Stagnant and declining real dollar wages for 80% of Americans.
An economic plan that benefits rich much, much more than the middle and poorer classes, demonstrated by the huge and increasing gap.
The increasing numbers of people without health care.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there's plenty more.

The economy in 1980 was Carters fault. The economy in 2008 is, uh, uh, Carters fault.

Yours in blissful ignorance,

Bush's 25%

yav- shrinking of middle class.

Spending our money(estimated one trillion) building iraqs infrastructure while letting our own slowly collapse.

Increasing the size of govt and it's employees more than any president in recent memory.

The re-use of voodoo economics.

Wasted money on non functioning missile shields.

$850 billion trade deficit

Price of oil rising from 20 dollars a barrel to 141 bucks. in 7 years.

But none of it is bushs fault! And all the past economic woes are the fault of Carter and Clinton!

Hard Right wingers are stupid.

Yav take a civics class. The Fed is not part of the Bush administration not does the Executive office set the Fed's monetary policy

Get a clue, there are no free wars. Printing money without tax revenue inflates the dollar and the price of imports rises as we see in our gas prices.

The economy in 1980 was no more Carter's fault than the economy in 2009 will be Obama's, though twenty years from now we will hear the constant right wing talking point blaming Obama for our economic problems post-Bush.

But none of it is bushs fault!

who is saying that?

Screw the middle class. Go out and get real jobs and stop relying on the gov't to baby you. If you want healthcare go out and get a career.

If you can't afford gas, donate your car to the United Way and walk to work

I'd like to add one more:

Failure to secure our borders.

"Screw the middle class."

Yes you have....with the help of the rest of the Republican Party. Pay for your own god damned stupid wars for oil, don't borrow the money and expect my kids and grandkids to pay for your stupidity. Everyone who voted for Bush should get a special tax assessed for their stupidty and arrogance.

If you can't afford gas, donate your car to the United Way and walk to work

Posted by timbci at 2008-06-27 09:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do you have any idea how far people commute? And "screw the middle class"?

Frankly, their existence keeps us from a feudal system. You want everyone to be either dirt poor or ultra rich?

I just don't get you people. You do everything you can to lick the ass crack of the elites in this country, spend your whole life hoping to get "fuck you" money to live like a rock star...

And it never happens to 99% of you! All you do is comfort the comfortable and screw yourselves, your neighbors, your country.

Actually traffic has let up so much I'm getting better mileage. Good thing Porsche's long history of endurance racing demands good mileage.

I'm thinking a Tesla next, though.

"But none of it is bushs fault! And all the past economic woes are the fault of Carter and Clinton!"

FINALLY! Alex is gettin' it! And I think Carter is actually the one who blew up the levees too!

Everyone who voted for Bush should get an extra exemption on their taxes.

Danii your kids and grandkids just a number and meaningless. Maybe if they become Disposable heroes in a future war their lives would have some purpose.
Danni please tell me who was the last President that didn't issue any Treasuries

Furthermore, war for oil are not stupid. They are reality because oil powers the world.Japan attacked Pearl Harbor becaus of America's oil embargo. The IG Farben companies(Bayer,BASF,Hoechst) financed the rise to power of the Nazi party and the transformation of German democracy into a dictatorship. The driving force behind WWII was IG Farben's ambition to achieve control of the global oil and drug markets and eliminate, by force, any competition

"You do everything you can to lick the ass crack of the elites in this country,"

It appears to me that YOU and your little friends are the ones nominating and electing "elites." have you seen the meals Pelosi has designated for the House cafeteria since she's been speaker? I don't know whether it includes aragula or not, but Obama will have it in the White House once he's elected.
If you don't think Al Gore, Pelosi, Reid, Obama and your other "heroes" are the "elites," I have to wonder about your ability to discern ANYTHING.

"Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because of America's oil embargo...."

No, that was just a proximate cause. Ultimately, Japan attacked America because the Pacific Fleet was a potential threat to Japanese expansion in southeat Asia.

"The drivinf force...."

Was not IG Farben. Corporations were tail to the state's dog in the Third Reich.

I fault the Internet for such fallacies. At some point, people just have to break down and read a few books.

"aragula(sic)"

It's spelled arugula, aka lettuce.

Hmm... SO the middle class keeps us from a feudal system. Hmmm... I think that was taken care of when ALexander Hamilton won the argument with Thomas Jefferson over what economic direction to move the country.

Who the hell wants to live like a rock star. They got no health insurance and are slaves to the record companies.

Who are these so called elites ???? Oh yea the Free Mason conspiracy.

"And it never happens to 99% of you! All you do is comfort the comfortable and screw yourselves, your neighbors, your country."

I can think of no better way of screwing my country thatn voting for a black muslim who wants to borrow money for slave reparations

"I don't know whether it includes aragula or not, but Obama will have it in the White House once he's elected."

There we have the JESTGEGGINGALONG in depth analysis of Obama's presidency in advance.
Amazing.
BTW, do you think they have any Arugula at Kinnebunkport??
Was the spoon in Cowboy George's mouth gold or silver???

"The IG Farben companies(Bayer,BASF,Hoechst) financed the rise to power of the Nazi party and the transformation of German democracy into a dictatorship."

Don't forget to mention the assistance of Prescott Bush, his family is still very proud of his service for the Fuehrer.

The only person in Washington I ever voted for is Ron Paul. Unfortunately gerrymandering in Texas took me out of his district so I can no longer vote for him.

I remain bemused. Given all the reasons for WWII, TIMBCI picks on IG Farben.

"I can think of no better way of screwing my country thatn voting for a black muslim who wants to borrow money for slave reparations"

And when one gets nominated you can vote for him but in the mean time we are stuck with an old white guy and a younger fellow of mixed race background who attended the same Christian church for 20 years for which he has been criticised by the right, you guys need to get your story straight, was he a member of Rev. Wright's church or not???
Now when this Christian man wins the election he will be stuck trying to repair the damage done by the idiot appointed by the SC.

"Black Muslim...."

I'd say TIMBCI is drunk this morning if I didn't understand he's just being mean.

"aragula" Should be corky's new nickname.

I can think of no better way of screwing my country thatn voting for a black muslim who wants to borrow money for slave reparations

Posted by timbci at 2008-06-27 09:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

Good thing one of those isn't running, huh?

Sorry son but Farben Ag funded the Nazi Party and the Japnese Navy was vastly superior to the American Pacific Fleet. The only real threat to Japan was Americvan Manufacturing capabilities.

The Yamamoto was superior to the Arizona

Furthermore, war for oil are not stupid.

Why do republicans hate the free market?

"I'd say TIMBCI is drunk this morning if I didn't understand he's just being mean."

More than likely both, with a healthy dose of dishonesty thrown in for good measure.

"Vastly superior...."

Well, the Japs had more carriers than we did. But no one really knew in 1941 these would be the essential element in naval warfare.

The Imperial Navy had a numerical edge on the US Pacific Fleet. But in a war they'd potentially have to deal with the Atlantic Fleet as well. The fact is we outnumbered them.

Yamato, Yamato....

Was it superior to the Arizona? It was certainly larger. A moot point. Battleships very rarely fought battleships. I can think of only one such action in the Pacific.

For extra points, TIMBCI---The name of Yamato's sister ship was what?

Kepp on denying it but come Obama will be taking the oath on a Koron not a Bible.

Danni while we are at it we should mention that Joe Kennedy was friendly with the German AMbasador while he was in London in 1938, He saw Germany as the answer to the Communists and the Jews. Looks like Camelot was inclusive as it would appear

If you can't afford gas, donate your car to the United Way and walk to work

Posted by timbci at 2008-06-27 09:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do you have any idea how far people commute?

I am betting the timbicile does not have any clue how the real world works.

TIMBCI----Frankly, son----It doesn't matter if it's a Quran or the Bible. You don't like Obama, that's fine. But you have to understand when you're playing the bigot.

The Atlantic Fleet was busy looking for German subs. Apparently they found a few because I went scuba diving in one off Sandy Hook.

If it wasn't for American Mfg. the Pacific fleet would have been in trouble.

Coral Sea was a disaster but that God for two letters AF.

I don't know the Yamoto's sister ship but everytime I watch Midway I root for the Japanese

"If you can't afford gas, donate your car to the United Way and walk to work"

I'd sooner just park it by the side of the road than give it to those people. Much of your donation is sucked up into big salaries, etc. for the top folks at United Way. Twenty years or so ago here in S. Florida the head lady at the United Way for Dade Co. retired....the retirement package would have made many greedy CEOs jealous, I decided right then they would never get another dime from me.

"If you can't afford gas, donate your car to the United Way and walk to work"

I'd sooner just park it by the side of the road than give it to those people. Much of your donation is sucked up into big salaries, etc. for the top folks at United Way. Twenty years or so ago here in S. Florida the head lady at the United Way for Dade Co. retired....the retirement package would have made many greedy CEOs jealous, I decided right then they would never get another dime from me.

The Yamamoto was superior to the Arizona

Posted by timbc

How was an admiral superior to a battleship?

I give Bush no quarter for anything, but this isn't his fault exactly... it's the way the system works. we've been coming to this point for a century and with 350 mil in the middle class in India, and China not far behind, its gonna get worse.

Hold on to your f'ing hats, America... if you don't sell it to fill your gas tank first.

1) 70% of our economy is consumer spending.
2) Wall Street has been waging a war against working wages and benefits for 30 years, assisted by Politicians and they bribe and Judges they have in their pocket.
3) Bush's has left us with: debts so massive they can never be repaid; job losses; and failed wars.

There is no place for consumer spending to go but down, since our debts are unsustainable. But bartenders, maids and oil companies are enjoying phenomenal growth. That's the place to be.

"It's spelled arugula, aka lettuce."

Thanks, Zat...it's lettuce for the great unwashed and arugula for "elites," right? Goes well with tofu and bean sprouts, doesn't it?

Bush's war outstanding, the majority of our financial problems are caused by the unconstitutional existence of the Federal Reserve. Bernanke is making Greenspan look like a genius..

726 in the real world only the poor suckas really care and are greatly affected by $4 gas. I got some gas this morning and gave the guy $40 but hey he washed my windows and promised me he would get those speculators and build a refinery in his spare time

It should be added htat people would have realized this a whole sooner if Greenspan hadn't unleashed the housing bubble. Its the least any loyal partisan crony would do.

Screw the middle class. Go out and get real jobs and stop relying on the gov't to baby you. If you want healthcare go out and get a career.

Posted by timbci

From the guy in foster care. He focuses on health care cause he's got a meds nurse.

"I give Bush no quarter for anything, but this isn't his fault exactly..."

Sorry but it is his and Greenspan's fault. The Bush tax cuts for the rich are the primary reason the dollar's value has evaporated, the housing bubble was the result of Greenspan's use of low interest rates to make it appear that the economy was booming while no real growth was occuring. Lots of people predicted exactly what is happening now and only fiscal responsiblity such as the painful rise in interest rates as per Carter/Volcker and an increase in taxation for the wealthy will make things get better. There is no free lunch, Republicans since Reagan always pretend there is, this time though they weren't satisfied with a free lunch they also wanted a free war.

"Bernanke is making Greenspan look like a genius.."

Nothing will ever make Greenspan look like a genius unless you mean an evil genius. Greenspan should be hung.

You like tofu and bean sprouts?
Figures.

I had Chile Relleno del Mar and a Patron margarita last night.

How is nutcase partisan. I used to think he was a Republican but then he was corrupted by Andrea Mitchell

"I don't know the Yamoto's sister ship but everytime I watch Midway I root for the Japanese"

It was the Musashi, she was sunk in '44. She and the Yamato were armed with 18-inch guns, our battleships were 16-inchers. Both the Yamato and Musashi were sunk with air power from our carriers.

"I don't know the Yamoto's sister ship but everytime I watch Midway I root for the Japanese"

It was the Musashi, she was sunk in '44. She and the Yamato were armed with 18-inch guns, our battleships were 16-inchers. Both the Yamato and Musashi were sunk with air power from our carriers.

People shouldn't blame Bush for anything. They should blame themselves for voting for his stupid ass.

It is like blaming a snake for biting you after you pick it up.

The Bush tax cuts for the rich are the primary reason the dollar's value has evaporated

Can you substantiate that?

"You like tofu and bean sprouts?"

Naww..too "elitist." I'm more of a steak or ribs and beer kinda guy.

"I had Chile Relleno del Mar and a Patron margarita last night."

Primo. Comida Mexicano es mejor, especialmente chile rellenos con mariscos. Dos o tres Dos Equis para beber...muy bueno.

"There is no free lunch, Republicans since Reagan always pretend there is, this time though they weren't satisfied with a free lunch they also wanted a free war."

Posted by danni

Free lunch? I think your mistake here is that you assume that the rich take you for a human being. Big Mistake. We're mules. They only need to keep you well off enough to not hit the streets in revolution. Bread and circus, Danni. So far, so good from their perspective.

everytime I watch Midway I root for the Japanese

Posted by timbci

You know, I bet he's surprised how it ends every time too.

The Yamato was sunk in the last days of the war. She was a killer and the flagship of Yamamoto.

"Can you substantiate that?"

I think the government making the decision to stop publishing how much money they were printing tells all you need to know.

That, and watching what's going on....

The Bush tax cuts for the rich are the primary reason the dollar's value has evaporated..

You couldn't be more wrong.. The dollar's value has gone south because the fed prints money so that we can "afford" the massive and increasing spending by our government..

Wouldn't this world of fantasy be a wonderful place if 75% of the American unwashed were right that the President is resposible for everything that happens. The beauty and simplicity of this theory is this: All we have to do is replace the President and everything will be creamy peaches again. Man, if that was true I would join you guys, but unfortunetly I was born with a human brain.

The primary reason the dollar is in the shitter is because we have mortgaged ourselves to the chinese and japanese. The chinese own 28% of our treasury notes and the japanese own 24%.

That was to pay for a war and tax-cuts at the same time. We have never had a war without a tax increase to pay for it. Bush knew if he heaped a tax increase on top of the war the people would rise against him.

The war and the tax-cuts are both Bushie policies so I don't know how you could not put the blame anywhere else but at him.

so that we can "afford" the massive and increasing spending by our government..

Posted by jsprague

You must be thinking of the trillion $ or so that we have borrowed from China and Japan for the Iraqi war, which surprisingly (haha) destabilized the middle east and drove oil prices from $30 per barrel to $140 per barrel. A fucking first grader could have predicted all of this but of course our little bushie and his buddies were acting on a call by God and were thinking "flowers and chocolates".

Another dumb Retort thread. Probably polled residence in the Watts area. I'm sure Mr. Obama massive social spending and taxation agenda will do wonders for it.

BTW: where is my Economic Stimulus check?

It's the Government stupid!

"Who the hell wants to live like a rock star. They got no health insurance"

I'm sure the Health Plan Trustees at AFTRA and AFM will be interested to learn this.

I have a hard time blaming a specific prez for the total health of any economy. The economy like many things will have its ups and downs. I don't believe it's possible for the economy to have increases ALL THE TIME.

If you need to blame someone or something that contributes the most in a downturn BLAME THE PRESS. They love to put out doom and gloom stories.

"You couldn't be more wrong.. The dollar's value has gone south because the fed prints money so that we can "afford" the massive and increasing spending by our government.."

And taxes would be the normal way to pay for those things so that we don't need to just print more worthless money.

"The dollar's value has gone south because the fed prints money so that we can "afford" the massive and increasing spending by our government.."

Keep going: "...the massive and increasing spending by our government..." coupled with

....tax cuts causing not just record deficits, but record increases in debt burden.

The Fed would not have had to print all that money had Bush gone with the true surplus budgets delivered to his doorstep by his predecessor.

It's both the spending AND the tax cuts. The world is telling the US to get its financial house in order. Are we listening?

"If you need to blame someone or something that contributes the most in a downturn BLAME THE PRESS."

I think that is known as blaming the messenger. If the press is guilty of anything it is of being too quiet about the disaster that the Bush economy was bringing....most were aware but their corporate owners didn't want the truth told...it wasn't....people actually believed the housing bubble would continue indefinitely....that those increases in home values were actually sustainable profits on smart investments....poof....reality bites.

The Bush tax cuts for the rich are the primary reason the dollar's value has evaporated..

You couldn't be more wrong.. The dollar's value has gone south because the fed prints money so that we can "afford" the massive and increasing spending by our government..

And the way to pay for it is by printing money, not telling anyone how much we're printing, and trying to stay ahead of the curve on the resultant continued devaluation of the dollar - if I understand the point being made.

The strategy being, park your assets overseas, make currency plays, and on domestic stocks, look for those companies that receive enough of their income from overseas so they can play the currency restatement gain for "gain."

I could be wrong, or course.

America was created by wealthy people who didn't want to pay taxes to fund a war. Sound familar.

America was founded to be the playground for the rich while the mules worked in the fields picking cotton and chopping wood

Yes. YOu are right. It is Bush's fault that morons bought houses they couldn't afford. If anything these fuckers should be sent to jail for knowingly buying a house that was above their pay grade
Posted by timbci at 2008-06-27 08:29 AM

YEAH!

We know already ----- Bush was Solely Responsible for the Largest Increase in Homeownership before he Wasn't Responsible for it After it Fell Apart.

Did you forget how you all crowed that nonsense when it appeared a success. It was "Bush did this" and "Bush Presided Over That" everyday!

YEAH!

And here is some of that song --- from BEFORE it turned to shit and all of a sudden, after being "Solely Responsible" (as elders and others had said) was excused of any "reasonability".

The reality is that I will be soon buying a house in foreclosure in FLorida. Damn good deals down there and eventually I will sell it and make some mullah. Wouldn't it be great if I sold it back to the same sucka who lost it to the bank

"The Fed would not have had to print all that money had Bush gone with the true surplus budgets delivered to his doorstep by his predecessor."

"TRUE" surplus, Danny? Was all that "surplus" money in the same "lockbox" with Algore's Social Security" money?

All on paper, Danny, projected over ten years IF, that's IF, Danny, the revenues stayed the same and spending didn't increase. And IF the dog hadn't stopped to shit, he'd have caught the rabbit...IF my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle...IF there was no recession, IF 9/11 had not happened, IF....

Bush surely didn't help matters by losing his veto pen for seven years, and the "earmarking" azzholes in the Congress kinda went nuts which didn't help matters...lots of blame to go around.

"Grover Norquist predicted that the ownership society would be Bush's greatest legacy, remembered "long after people can no longer pronounce or spell Fallujah."

I think that Grover will be best remembered for his comparison of the US Government with a baby drowning in a bathtub. I think I hear the "baby" splashing and coughing right now. When we are all dealing with the consequences of the disastrous Bush economy (really the Reagan economy) we should all remember that these fucks planned this, it is part of their agenda to destroy the federal government as we know it. They aren't bothered by $4 gas prices, their homes aren't being foreclosed, they aren't fighting in Iraq. They are trying to set up a permanent aristocracy based on wealth and they aren't too far from succeeding.

"If anything these fuckers should be sent to jail for knowingly buying a house that was above their pay grade"

What about the folks who, presumably, went to business school and are making these outrageously stupid loans? Should they be thrown in jail, too, and for longer, since they're supposed to know better? Of course, a cynic might believe it was merely done for all those upfront fees. But 125% LTV? No need to verify income? Who's in charge here?

Who knows the first thing about humans and their money patterns and signs people to a contract that stretches their budget now, and resets at a much higher payment in two years? It sounds like folks needing just enough time to get away.

Yes, I believe people should be responsible for what they sign. But I doubt many of us could accurately predict how much house a bank would pre-approve today. At times like that, we rely on the loan officers---whom we're paying---to guide us through with our best interests at heart. Now it seems we're merely paying them to have their best interests at heart.

I would like to knwo how there was a surplus if Rubin was issuing Treasuries. TO my knowledge Treasuries were regularly auctioned every week of did the Fed close its doors-

"Wouldn't it be great if I sold it back to the same sucka who lost it to the bank"

Just be careful when you come down here that some guy who lost his house doesn't jack your car and kill your ass. When enough Americans lose homes, lives, etc. chaos will be the result. The America that Rethugs create will not be one they actually want to live in.

"All on paper, Danny, projected over ten years IF, that's IF"

The biggest "if" is "IF" GEORGE W. BUSH HAD NOT BECOME PRESIDENT AND THE NEOCONS HADN'T BEEN GIVEN A GREEN LIGHT ON PNAC.

we should all remember that these fucks planned this, it is part of their agenda to destroy the federal government as we know it.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised but you have completely gone off the deep end.

whatever, another wacko left wing conspiracy theorist who is 100% guaranteed to be miserable and failing their whole entire life.

at least you are not alone....thank God you have this place!!!

"All on paper, Danny, projected over ten years IF, that's IF, Danny, the revenues stayed the same and spending didn't increase. "

Good Gawd, Jest, I smacked you around on that months ago and you're reposting it?!? You're getting senile, old man.

You couldn't be further off. You're actually suggesting Clinton proposed budgets freezing government spending for a decade, and assuming the tax revenues wouldn't change.

Do you know how idiotic that is, even on it's surface?!?

"What about the folks who, presumably, went to business school and are making these outrageously stupid loans?"

If they went to a real business school and got a good job they paid off their student loans with their first bonus.

Many banks such as JPM/Chase give signing bonuses to MBA grads to pay off their student loans

"I would like to knwo how there was a surplus if Rubin was issuing Treasuries. TO my knowledge Treasuries were regularly auctioned every week of did the Fed close its doors-"

But that's not the barometer. Treasuries are always being redeemed as well. The question is: were they auctioning off less than were being redeemed (surplus), or more than were being redeemed (deficit).

Danforth,

If you approach life with the idea people have your interest at heart, you and your money will easily part.

A simple rule, but golden rule.

Danni. I will buy the house and rent ti to him so his kids can go to that second rate public school.

Public school is for peasants

Don't worry everyone. People will remember that it was all the democrats fault, despite the cons control of all 3 branches of government just in time for the next selection (think Reagan).

would it be too much if I said, "don't hate the playa, hate the game?"

50% of this coutry signed off on Bush's policies when they elected him in 2004.

"whatever, another wacko left wing conspiracy theorist who is 100% guaranteed to be miserable and failing their whole entire life."

Riiight and the S&L Scandal of the 80's was an accident too. Pretty easy to figure out....who made money, who lost money???

And hell, it isn't as if I and lots of others didn't predict exactly what is happening right now back when Bush was first appointed. It's like pretending that no one could have predicte the Iraq disaster or imagine terrorists turning planes into missiles and flying them into buildings.....gee Republicans don't seem to be able to imagine much of anything..

"50% of this coutry signed off on Bush's policies when they elected him in 2004."

That really is the most amazing thing about this....some of those morons still refuse to admit they were so wrong...hey a few are posting right here in this thread. I think it proves that some folks simply are incapable of learning.

"You couldn't be further off. You're actually suggesting Clinton proposed budgets freezing government spending for a decade, and assuming the tax revenues wouldn't change."

No, Danny...what it means, Danny, is budgets without a recession to decrease revenues and without something like 9/11 to increase spending. Or are you saying Clinton had provided for all that in his PROJECTED budgets with the "surplus?" There was no suplus, Danny. It was all a "maybe," IF....

And you called it a "true" surplus...LOL. Take a look...

"While not defending the increase of the federal debt under President Bush, it is aggravating seeing Clinton's record promoted as having generated a surplus. It never happened. There was never a surplus and the cold hard facts support that position. In fact, far from a $360 billion reduction in the national debt in FY1998-FY2000, there was an increase of $281 billion.

Verifying this is as simple as accessing the U.S. Treasury website where the national debt is updated daily and a history of the debt since January 1993 can be obtained. Considering the government's fiscal year ends on the last day of September each year, and considering Clinton's budget proposal in 1993 took effect in October 1993 and concluded September 1994 (FY1994), here's the national debt at the end of each year of Clinton Budgets:"

Fiscal Ending National Debt Deficit
Year
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

"Japan attacked Pearl Harbor becaus of America's oil embargo"

And look how well it worked out for them as well;-)

BobB FF for your snake comment. Right on.

"If you approach life with the idea people have your interest at heart, you and your money will easily part. A simple rule, but golden rule."

My father was a Realtor for over 35 years. He was proud of few things, but that ethical distinction---vs. a real estate agent---was important to him. I can't count the times I overheard him tell someone on the phone they just couldn't afford that particular house. I know he hated doing it (and I hated having to do the same recently for my neice), but he hated more the thought of someone getting into a house only to lose it all a few scattered months or years down the road.

When I went to buy my first house, I went through a Realtor in my town, and at one point, I commented to my father I got the feeling sometimes he wasn't working FOR me. I got upbraided: Don't kid yourself! He's not! He's working for the seller, that's who pays him.

It certainly made sense. That, when you pay someone, they should have your best interests at heart. Which brings me back to the loan officers the home buyers are paying.

Paying to con them, it turns out.

Public school is for peasants

Posted by timbci

Thomas Jefferson just flipped you the bird...

Public school is for peasants

Posted by timbci

so says the man who can't get a date.

Jest,

Try comprehension. I never claimed Clinton presided over balanced budget, in fact, I've corrected folks who have claimed it. But the budgets Clinton delivered to Bush's doorstep were true surplus budgets.

"what it means, Danny, is budgets without a recession to decrease revenues..."

When did we have a recession during the Bush years? Bush chose to decrease revenues via tax cuts.

"...and without something like 9/11 to increase spending"

Well, now you're just grasping. Bush increased the size of government more than any Democrat's wet dream.

I really, really want a Democratic-controlled massive majority in the Congress and a Democrat in the WH.

I want to watch another Congress/WH destroy more of our nation.

Do you really believe that the ownership of destruction of our nation resides on one party?

We really need to oust them all. The Congress drafts the Bills. They control the purse. The President guides the nation internationally.

Both are to blame. Problem is the Congress moreso than the WH. We change the guard in the WH. But, the Congress has the same people in there from Clniton's days, and some go back to Carter and even before that ( I think ). It just seems that way.

I bet the poll asking if Congress is to blame for the lousy economy, the percentage would be roughly the same. 75%. The approval ratings prove that.

"My father was a Realtor for over 35 years. He was proud of few things, but that ethical distinction---vs. a real estate agent---was important to him. I can't count the times I overheard him tell someone on the phone they just couldn't afford that particular house."

Me too...been retired for a long time now. I don't know how buyers are "qualified" for loans nowadays, but back when I was in the business there were formulae for determining the amount of loan a buyer could receive. It was cut and dried. "Qualifying" a buyer to see what price home he could purchase was the first thing you did before looking at the first house. Your dad was no doubt telling someone he could not qualify for the loan to purchase the property. It wasn't just an opinion, it was set down by a hard and fast formula.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor becaus of America's oil embargo"

And look how well it worked out for them as well;-)

It worked out pretty well. They got their country rebuilt by America and get the US to provide their national defense. Pretty cool.

Public school is for peasants

Posted by timbci

Thomas Jefferson just flipped you the bird...

Thomas Jeffersen was a fool who wanted the 13 colonies to be a nation of farmers

Shit man. YOur father was a realtor. He had a woman's job. Next think your going to tell me he baked cookies on Sundays while your momn watched football and drank beer

Bush is systematically looting and dismantling not just the American economy, but the sum total of its very social fabric. The current market disaster shows every sign of becoming a full-blown panic within weeks as not even The Fed can stanch the flow, and the major inflation we'll undergo in light of Bush's gross war will not be felt until well into the O'Bama presidency. Watch for $10 loaves of bread and $50-a-gallon gasoline, neither of which working folks will be able to afford.

Meanwhile Bush and Cheney will take their stolen billions to Swiss banks and Paraguayan estates and live in luxury that the rest of us can only dream about. And someone, somewhere STILL opposes impeaching the sons of bitches! herm

"Well, now you're just grasping. Bush increased the size of government more than any Democrat's wet dream."

Not grasping for anything...I freely admit Bush has been a fiscal and spending DISASTER. I accept the fact that this administration's free spending policies have the economy in a mess. He has certainly been no conservative to MY way of thinking. BUT...to be honest, you have to accept the fact that there was never a surplus during the Clinton administration. Just look at the national debt and deficit figures from the Treasury department. True, the deficit was decreasing, but the DEBT was increasing each year.

And the People will re-elect most of Congress and supplant the President with another that cares just as much about America.

In the end, the two parties will continue to disintegrate the country - but outlining their own pockets and their wealthy contributors.

They are all RICH. There are no poor Democrats in Congress.

Herm. Have another beer son.

Real Americans bake their own bread and working folks is code for dumb shit that was too fat, slow, and stupid to get into college.

Herm I thought the Bush compound was in Columbia not Paraguay

Petrous. I heard that Lautenberg is poor. LOL

JESTGETTINGALONG's criticism of the Clinton "surplus" is fair but it should also be remembered that Clinton (like virtually all Dem. presidents including Obama) inherited a huge deficit from his predecessor who operated under the economic theories of Voo Doo just as did Reagan who was know to say "deficits don't matter." Any reasonable person knows "deficits do matter" but Republicans have a way of lying to themselves and to the American people and convincing them that common sense is an outdated and overrated thought process.

Show me a Congress that is planning to pay off the entire National Debt and actually have plans to do it - then I'll believe it.

So far, the Congress has never presented a plan to pay the debt in full.

BS on Clinton's term making headway with the ND. Take a look at the numbers. The accruals outgained any payment towards it.

Hmm the term "Voo doo Economics" was invented by Bush 41 when he ran for the Republican nominee against Reagan.

I really hope that we have a civil war soon

Deficits don't matter. Let Danni's kids pay off the damned deficit.

"And the People will re-elect most of Congress and supplant the President with another that cares just as much about America."

Not to worry...we will reelect 98% of the 535 assholes who have been in D.C. for DECADES, BUT...a president with two years Senate experience who stands for CHANGE! Hope and change. You watch, he "hopes" he can "change" those 535 assholes AND the thousands and thousands of people on their staffs, bureaucrats in the State Department, Treasury, etc. About the only thing that will change will be the curtains in the Oval Office.

Thomas Jeffersen was a fool who wanted the 13 colonies to be a nation of farmers

Posted by timbci
And the Constitution is just a piece of paper.....

"Hmm the term "Voo doo Economics" was invented by Bush 41 when he ran for the Republican nominee against Reagan."

Obviously, why do you think I used that reference??
It just further shows how cynical the man was, he knew Reaganomics was nonsense yet he still mostly continued the same ideas....though he finally did let one tax increase pass....I'll give him credit for one thing...he was much better than his POS son.

" BUT...to be honest, you have to accept the fact that there was never a surplus during the Clinton administration. "

Jest, I've not only accepted it, I've stated it, and posted the fact I've corrected people who have claimed otherwise, on multiple occasions. You must be missing something to think I've "yet to accept" it.

Chill. Actually the constitution was a piece of crap. It should be torched and we should use the map on the back to find the buried treasure to pay off the deficit

"Shit man. YOur father was a realtor. He had a woman's job."

He ended up vice-president of the corporation, idiot. And a lovely package when they were bought by Coldwell Banker.

"Next think your going to tell me he baked cookies on Sundays while your mom watched football and drank beer"

My father never baked in his life, but my mother LOVED football. Thanks for your concern. And your obliviousness to the overall point.

Which Bush economic policies do you have heartburn with?

Posted by OohRah at 2008-06-27 08:29 AM

I have heartburn with any stupid motherfucker like George Bush and his asswipe side kick Dick Cheney who get up and tell the American People..."Deficits don't matter... Ronald Reagan proved that"

Now look where were at ... DUMB-ASS !!!

I have said it once and I will say it again. THE United States of America is an experiment whose time has come and gone. It is time to break up the country

Did deal. Corporations have so many VPs. I became a VP at 27. Big f...ing deal. If he was given a package that means is wasn't wanted and was irrelevant. Maybe he was just incompetent.

If your father truly loved your mother he would have helped her bake

USATrueandblue. WE are not in the same place. YOu are rolling in the mus with the pigs eat husks of corn and I am eating filet mignon

Who is playing with the troll again?

Jeese.

"(Big) deal. Corporations have so many VPs"

His had two.

"If he was given a package that means is wasn't wanted and was irrelevant."

Oh, he didn't leave at that point. It was for his portion of the buyout.

"If your father truly loved your mother he would have helped her bake"

Both times?

Jealousy makes some folks try to denigrate the accomplishments of others. Sometimes sad failures show up here pretending to be rich and successful but usually it is pretty obvious that they are really just the opposite. It never seems to occur to them that we who post here notice how much time they have on their hands to post.

Which Bush economic policies do you have heartburn with?

Posted by OohRah at 2008-06-27 08:29 AM | Reply | Flag

I'd have to say it's the policy of NOT HAVING A POLICY!