It's okay, as long as the Chi's don't called their loans.

-GW

Maybe some of them will get to read it..pretty soon it will say "Godless America world largest producer of Korans"

Harraruah!

They produce everything else in the world.

Might as well.

Painted with extra lead, to hasten that spiritual reunion.

Harraruah!

FF

Yeah. I bought a bible printed in China and wtf?? I think they're trying to sabotage our way of life.

When I got to the part about the ten commandments, it said choose one from column A and one from column B.

Still, it came with eggroll, so...

I'd rather have fortune cookies.

I have great respects for Tim Lahe and Hal Lindsey. But I disagree with their interpretation of Revelation casting China as a villain in the end time prophecy. (I'm not Chinese, btw).

Christianity in China is growing by leaps and bounds and within a century it will become a kinder, gentler nation.

Right now, Mugabe is Revelation 13 to Zimbabwe. Burma and North Korea are Revelation 13 nations. Cuba will transition quickly once that old man Fidel Castro is gone.

No Islamic nation will experience a "Reformation" because the ingredients are just not there. It is a flesh religion. It is a religion of laws and rules WITHOUT GRACE.

Yeah, I'm sure it makes one feel ever closer to God knowing their family Bible was outsourced to be made in a country run by godless Communists.

"I have great respects for Tim Lahe and Hal Lindsey"

Agreed. Peddlers of dispensationalist bullshit in the form of fictional tripe who somehow rake in mass quantities of cash do invite a certain awe.

There are nearly as many Christians in China as there are in America.

"There are nearly as many Christians in China as there are in America"

And eventually, just as many Chinese...

This thread made me kinda curious so I went inside and looked to see where my family's Catholic Bible had been made. Written inside the cover was the following publishing info:

"1953 - Catholic Word Press, Chicago, Illinois
Printed in United States"

About as sacreligious as American Flags being made in China. Fucking disgraceful.

Larry Mohr

About as sacreligious as American Flags being made in China. Fucking disgraceful.

Really. Everyone knows that Jesus hates Chinks

Yeah, I'm sure it makes one feel ever closer to God knowing their family Bible was outsourced to be made in a country run by godless Communists.

Posted by CalifChris

Isn't that what Plastic Jeebus is all about? More and more profit-at any cost?

I live in Shanghai and have been over here in China for about two years... This place is more respectful of God and of Christianity than America is. Years ago, the Communist Government realized that Mao's Cultural Revolution did not provide for any spiritual enlightenment and therefore, they changed their views and position on the subject. They are big proponents of Christianity now. TRUE. There are more Christmas Trees, Manger Scenes, Christmas Lights EVERYWHERE, etc around here than you can imagine! Most of them stay up through January! Reminds me of good old Houston, Texas back in the 60's and 70's before you libs took control and systematically began the process of "atheizing" America, throwing God out of anyplace you didn't want to be reminded that He did manifest Himself in the flesh.

DANVED-
It's interesting to hear your take on how China's moved toward more openness.

The college-aged daughter of good friends of ours recently returned from a several week stay in China as part of a Christian youth group. They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese. They did learn some Chinese, but that wasn't their top priority.

My clear understanding from her mother was that she had to be quite careful what she told her mom on the phone... that the students had to very much fly under the radar regarding their faith lest they be shipped back.

So that's a bit different take on the situation vs what you're experiencing. They apparently aren't executing people for Christ - at least not visiting Americans anyway.

There are more Christmas Trees, Manger Scenes, Christmas Lights EVERYWHERE, etc around here than you can imagine!

Don't blame the left and their "Atheizing" for what has happened to Christmas.

Christians have been actively participating in it for a long time now.

Decorating trees...a pagan ritual adapted by the romans to appease the unruly Christian masses. Doing it on December 25th...wasn't that originally the festival of the Sun God?

"They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese. "

Another fine example of lying for jeebus.
In some countries they'd have been executed.
Oh well ...

ZAT-
In your opinion if they'd been murdered would they have deserved it?

Whether we're talking about foreign missionaries or local citizens who wish to worship Christ... when you're in a closed country you HAVE to be very discreet.

One's faith must be strong to place one's life at risk like that.

"No Islamic nation will experience a "Reformation" because the ingredients are just not there. It is a flesh religion. It is a religion of laws and rules WITHOUT GRACE."

actually i think the reformation is going to come the opposite of what you think

islam is spreading
and like i told nanc
we're going to be humping your grandkids into islam

;)

and the no grace thing
please

islam invented a judicial system long before america was even discovered
the problem is it was hijacked a thousand years ago and the law has remained stagnant and thus seemingly ancient

but progressives like me and many others i hope will advance it beyond contemporary thought in my lifetime, but probably in the next 100 years as long as the people of grace (the christian, jewish, muslim and communist :) leaders ) don't nuke the shit out of us

and again
sorry but go to the supreme court
you won't find a engraving of Mohammed there for nothing
his judicial though was very influential in america's early judicial thought

The college-aged daughter of good friends of ours recently returned from a several week stay in China as part of a Christian youth group. They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese. They did learn some Chinese, but that wasn't their top priority.

Posted by OohRah at 2008-06-26 06:24 AM

That bothers me a bit, people going out trying to convert people. I wonder how her parents would feel if atheists were going about actively trying to convert their christian children to atheism. I think sometimes you don't realize you are being a douchebag until someone does the same thing you are doing back at you.

well, considering that the bible is a book of fairy tales, who gives a shit where it's printed?

may the Qi go with you all...

BIG
I think there's a bit more to this. There is a functioning/active Christian group within that universtiy setting. Hannah's group didn't just simply show up under cover of darkness without inside connections.

I assume there are those around there who are open to hearing of Christ, but as an entity the school or its people can't publicly vocalize support for Christianity.

Frankly, from what I've gathered from the missionaries who've visited our church the people in other countries have a greater interest in/thurst for Christ than many Americans. Perhaps in large part because the citizens are warned against it.

In the US we have such freedoms we've become lazy or complacent. Not so in repressive nations. Same thing applies to voting. My guess is we'd see huge turnout if closed nations allowed truly free elections. Iraq is but one example - China could be another, IMO.

They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese. They did learn some Chinese, but that wasn't their top priority.

Posted by OohRah at 2008-06-26 06:24 AM

Fucking lowlifes, imo. Christianity had a chance, early on, to take hold in China, and it flopped.

Thank God.

BIG-
As for atheists converting my kid... that's a challenge Christians face every day as they function in the world. Peer pressure, particularly at the teen level, is huge.

So while it's not "please join my church of atheism" there is certainly the allure of "just do whatever you want - God is for old and weak people."

"islam invented a judicial system long before america was even discovered"

Yes...and Islam hasn't progressed much since then:

BELLA-
Let me try to have you view this evangelism issue in a different light.

Take the abolition of slavery... or any number of civil rights issues. Several DR posters have brought up the gay marriage issue as well.

Proponents of change suffered on multiple levels - perhaps beatings, death, certainly threats & ridicule, etc. But they persevered because they felt their cause was just and correct.

Not everyone who heard them was persuaded to change, but enough who heard the message took up the cause... the cause grew till it became more universally accepted.

Looking back, would you have called those advocates of change "Fucking lowlifes"?

"The world's biggest atheist nation is becoming the world's largest supplier of the Good Book."

What flavor of the Good Book are the Chinese printing up?

Problem with the bible is that there are so many translation and interpretations.

One web site allows you to search for verses in over 50 versions. 50!!!

My favorite is the "genderless" bible being pushed as of late.

How can one quote with any certainty and absolute faith from a book that has been retranslated and reinterpreted a thousand times?

What is your bible flavor of the day?

"They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese"
"Not everyone who heard them was persuaded to change, but enough who heard the message took up the cause... the cause grew till it became more universally accepted."
"BELLA- Let me try to have you view this evangelism issue in a different light."

YEAH!

Didn't help, But Says allot!

In order to pursue "change" ----- one must first lie!
In order to offer your faith to others ------ you must first deceive them!

"Looking back, would you have called those advocates of change "Fucking lowlifes"? "

Nope, but your neighbors kid certainly is!

"islam invented a judicial system long before america was even discovered"

Even today in the name of Islam family members beat each other to death in the name of peace.

jest

"Yes...and Islam hasn't progressed much since then:"

i said it hasn't progressed in a thousand years

did i not??

thats not to say it can't
and it won't in the future

as the world has shrunk (communication)

education is being forced upon the muslims
which is a good thing
and things will change

"Even today in the name of Islam family members beat each other to death in the name of peace."

i can find you examples of this in christianity too in 3rd world nations

its a cultural value not a religious
islam like christianity FORBIDS abuse

"They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese"
"BELLA- Let me try to have you view this evangelism issue in a different light."

YEAH!
So I did!

"They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese. They did learn some Chinese, but that wasn't their top priority."

One has to wonder who all this underhanded shit really hurts!
I mean, these kids had an opportunity to learn some valuable and marketable skills in a world that is becoming more global and more Chinese every day! But instead they ran around bothering people with their preaching and no doubt rude/condescending behavior towards their host's culture as their "priority"! Now im sure most of the Chinese students blew them off and Stupid White Ghosts so it's unlikely they had any impact so the ones who really suffer are these brainwashed kids who have squandered their future --- and perhaps the future of our country (while we grow whacked religious fanatics, they grow engineers and chemists and mathematicians) .

Considering their shoddy workmanship, I actually like it when they busy themselves making things I'd never use. Ever so slightly decreases the chances that they'll take over production of stuff that I do use.

My favorite is the "genderless" bible being pushed as of late.

Posted by ZOT at 2008-06-26 09:04 AM | Reply

Is that the one the preacher reads from at same sex marriages?

Frontline Christianity in China Special

Chk the video

Yeah Sully don't You find it utterly disgusting that You could buy 10 Identical things made in China and they would all break faster than the same identicle thing made in America. It's utterly disgusting how Corporations have became so fucking greedy. Take for instance the Maytag washer and dryer. I went to Home Depot the other day and seen the Maytag washers. They are junk now a days cause they are really Maytag branded Whirlpools. If that ain't fucked up I don't know what is.

Larry Mohr

RED-
They were only there for a couple, maybe three weeks. I dare say they were exposed to about as much Chinese culture/language as they could in that short a span.

By the way Hannah is a 4.0 student... a brainiac who also happens to love the Lord. The two aren't mutually exclusive. She is anything from rude and condescending - in fact I'm impressed she got up the courage to go there. She's always been pretty reserved.

You sound awfully bitter this morning. What's up?

smart missionaries are the worst
cause they think they KNOW the answer to the eternal question

there is no answer
only faith

and choosing a faith isn't based on intelligence either

the smarter you are doesn't necessarily mean all of a sudden you are going to find the answer to which is the true religion.

probably cause the answer is
there is no true religion.
i am a firm believer that its not important which faith you choose as long as you have some sort of faith. (yes even athiests have a faith in something unless you are a niahlist... ve are niahlists, ve beleive in nothing.)

"Is that the one the preacher reads from at same sex marriages?"

Posted by anton

No. The one used is the version in which Adam and Steve are first at bat. And the snake isn't really a snake.

"You sound awfully bitter this morning. What's up?"

What's up you ask? The fact that this student represents Me, my Country and my Faith in a foreign land ------ using lies!

And you approve of this ---- justify it even!

Then people like you sit around and pontificate (again using religion as a tool of manipulation and machinations) as to why a majority of the world views Americans as ignorant and selfish fools!

Must be becuase "They Hate our Freedoms" right!

kjv is supposedly the closest in interpretation to original documents.

all others would be corrupt - bent to suit the masses. there are a couple of bibles that have even had the gall to leave Yeshua out of certain verses.

rev. 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

There are nearly as many Christians in China as there are in America.

interesting this post is up, i watched a frontline piece on this a few days ago. Christianity is spreading rapidly in china, and yes mostly under the radar, but the gov't has added religion to its constitution. some places worshiping openly is safe, mostly not. either way, great news and very encouraging.

"yes even athiests have a faith in something unless you are a niahlist... "

My brother is an atheist and he believes in nothing. But he's not one of these atheists who can't wait to tell you that he is one and how that proves his superior intelligence. He actually believes that organized religion can be good for kids because it teaches them basic morality (yes, I know this comment will elicit the obligatory jokes about pedophile priests).

sully
i'm not an athiest

but i do agree with your brother's view

organized religions biggest problem is that the practitioners somehow feel it obligatory to force their beliefs on others. Like they have seen the light and know for absolute certain that if they don't people are going to burn in hell.

and scooter
"Christianity is spreading rapidly in china"
so is islam, more battles to ensue haha:)

"kjv is supposedly the closest in interpretation to original documents. Posted by Nanc"

An opposing point of view:

RED-
Americans largely take their freedoms for granted. Look at the percentage who bother to vote.

I'm suggesting when people like the Iraqis (voting) and people in China (religion) who historically haven't had the freedoms we enjoy are afforded the chance to experience that freedom, they more rabidly embrace it. Is that a bad thing? Certainly not!

Frank and Zat: just curious - why do you refer to Jesus as "Jeebus?"

"kjv is supposedly the closest in interpretation to original documents."

Would that be the English translation, the French translation, the Russian translation, the Chinese translation, the Spanish translation, etc.?

Funny thing about languages is there can never be a perfect translation. Translation is far more than simple word replacement. There are cultural, situational, and idiomatic referents that can't be adequately expressed when moving from language to language.

One of the greatest mistranslations/
misinterpretations involves the Commandment "Thou shall not kill." From the original Hebrew, it should read "Thou shall not murder." The difference between the interpretations is one of intent.

I think they are using a Homer Simpsonism, Fair.

to original documents

Please explain what you mean by "original documents".

I need a laugh. This should be good...

I think they are using a Homer Simpsonism, Fair.
Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Thanks San. Interesting but not so surprising, considering the toxic levels of lowbrow BS mixed with thoughtful discourse in here.

original documents equal
the emporer constantine version of the bible

RED -

"In order to pursue "change" ----- one must first lie!
In order to offer your faith to others ------ you must first deceive them!

"Looking back, would you have called those advocates of change "Fucking lowlifes"? "

Are you refering to Barack Obama?

In order to pursue "change" ----- one must first lie!

Society needs to bring back lions' dens.

Apparently it's OK to trick people into doing what YOU want them to do.

"Hey Dan, look at the cute lil kitty cat in this cage."
/push/
/slam/
/lock/

kjv is supposedly the closest in interpretation to original documents.

Posted by nanc at 2008-06-26 10:03 AM | Reply

We don't have any originals. The KJV is a beautiful translation, but it is not the closest to the earliest manuscripts. Sorry about that.

Burma and North Korea are Revelation 13 nations.

take NK off the list, they're Bushbuddies now.

They were there to evangelize at some Chinese university... and went there under the guise of studying Chinese"

"BELLA- Let me try to have you view this evangelism issue in a different light."

From the people who bitch that the koran allows muslims to lie to infidels.

They're also the top producer of U.S. flag lapel pins.

We don't have any originals. The KJV is a beautiful translation, but it is not the closest to the earliest manuscripts. Sorry about that.

Posted by anton at 2008-06-26 11:55 AM

That is correct! We have copies of copies of copies. The KJV is not even one of the best copies. There are also tens of thousands of transcription errors. Several fall in some key areas and in at least one case I can remember the story of the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", words attributed to Jesus himself, is, apparently completely made up!

One significant error falls in the discussion of the Trinity and one in the Baptism of Christ by John the Baptist.

God could have done a better job of getting his "Word" to us here INTACT in this Century...IMO.

KJV survived so long and shaped the thinking and language of the English speaking world. One reason was that English was not evolving fast like the last 100 years --- now even me a KJV lover has to read other versions, as I'm uncomfortable in using expressions thee thou verily giveth, etc.

The passage in John 8 was not made up, but was missing in some documents --- but that does not make it less authentic. John was the only disciple who died of old age and his book was circulating before he died. The fact that he left it that way indicates he approved of it. There are many elements even the best scholars do not know, and we do not need to know if God decides that way. Focus on what is revealed and not speculate on what we cannot or do not know for sure.

My brother is an atheist and he believes in nothing.

Actually it is theists who believe in nothing. Reality is not so hard to like. Try it; you might like it.

The Chinese might not be so dumb. Look what Christianity did to the Roman Empire.

Reality is not so hard to like. Try it; you might like it.

Reality 24/7 ? Please, nooooooooo. I couldn't take it! (grin)

I thought it was the nihilists who believe in nothing.

Everything you need to know in life, you can learn from "The Big Lebowski".

The Big Lebowski is why I have a Coffee Can List rather than a Bucket List.

The Big Lebowski is why I have a Coffee Can List rather than a Bucket List.

Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

Seriously, did anyone catch what it said on the outside of the coffee can -- and I'm sure the Cohen bros did on purpose? It said "dark roasted". Nice touch.

Best line from any movie, EVER--(at least the best line of any movie at a bar in a bowling alley):

"Nihilists? F--k me. Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, it IS an ethos."

I love the line:

The Dude: Then you know he's got emotional problems, man.
Walter Sobchak: You mean... beyond pacifism?

Posted by MrFair at 2008-06-26 10:20 AM

Frank and Zat: just curious - why do you refer to Jesus as "Jeebus?"

The passage in John 8 was not made up, but was missing in some documents --- but that does not make it less authentic...

OH...nice twist ... let's put it this way EZ... it was NOT in the earliest documents but appeared in the later documents. Not missing as YOU so cleverly say.

It was inserted into the later documents for effect...ummm MADE UP!

enjoy your made up KJV....

The Dude: Then you know he's got emotional problems, man.
Walter Sobchak: You mean... beyond pacifism?

Posted by goatman
* * * *

LOL. Yes, that was a great one too.