Look, I'm against the death penalty, but to do such a thing to a child... I find it hard to say they shouldn't just be erased from society...

These 5-4 votes are getting annoying too btw

rob
we need more
woodchippers for these scumbags

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child,"

how bout castration
eunuchify the bastard

He lives to rape again!

It is shocking that the Conservatives get it so wrong, so often.

When will you folks lose your blood-thirsty lust for revenge?

I find it hard to say they shouldn't just be erased from society...

That is what we have prisons for Rob.

I'd say putting the criminal in with the meanest, toughest, long term prisoners would be "a proportional punishment for the rape of a child."
If death ensues, oh well.

Poor Woobie there is just not enough Death and Horror on this Planet for him.

Get an X-box.

DISGUSTING!

When will you folks lose your blood-thirsty lust for revenge?
POSTED BY MANYPATHS
------

It's not so much revenge as it is practicality. Why put these people away for 40, 50, 60 years at $62,500 a year when we can just end them with a $5 chemical cocktail and ensure they will not offend again?

I'm glad the Supreme Court is standing their ground against expanding the category of capital crimes. Child molesters are heinous and evil people, but giving the needle to non-murderers would snowball to other crimes. All of which would clog the courts with particularly difficult cases.

For most of human history, if somebody assaulted your child or any member of your family for that matter, you killed him. Relatively modern pretentions prevent us from doing the common sense thing in these cases today.

DISGUSTING!

Posted by WOMAN

It's disgusting that our governemnt isn't allowed to kill it's citizens for crimes that do not merit death?

Boy, you might want to look into getting yourself a burka. Something tells me that you would love Sharia Law. They kill their citizens for all sorts of reasons.

What is disgusting is your chants for death. I am ashamed to have to share this country with people like you.

"but giving the needle to non-murderers would snowball to other crimes"

We're talking about a crime that most people detest more than murder. I don't think its as slippery a slope as you believe.

And we are ashamed to share the country with people like you Many. Anyone who thinks child rapists deserve anything better than death is on the wrong side of this issue. Plain and simple.

"It's disgusting that our governemnt isn't allowed to kill it's citizens for crimes that do not merit death?"

Obviously you hold kiddie-touchers in higher esteem than the person to whom you are responding.

You do realize that many people think child molestation warrants death, don't you?

These people can never be cured so if they can't control their urges we don't need to have them around. Paying $100K a year to keep them alive isn't in the public interest either.

The compelling reason is SIMPLE.

If the death penalty can be imposed for rape, the victim might as well be killed. Less chance of being convicted. (Assuming rapists are rational)

This is good policy for the child's sake.

Nether,

Please go educate yourself on the costs of capital punishment.

We will all be better off with you being more knowledgeable on the subject.

Then maybe you could come up with a viable reason to support Government sponsored executions.

"Child molesters are heinous and evil people"

This guy was a child rapist, not just a "molester." He raped his 8 year old stepdaughter. Anyone who thinks that a piece of shit like that deserves to be alive has a mindset that I simply cannot comprehend.

"If the death penalty can be imposed for rape, the victim might as well be killed. Less chance of being convicted."

Except for the face that you can still be convicted of rape even if you murdered the victim.

Sully,

You need to educate yourself as well on the costs of imprisonment.

The Supreme Court got this one right.

These people can never be cured so if they can't control their urges we don't need to have them around. Paying $100K a year to keep them alive isn't in the public interest either.

Posted by Sully

I'm not proud to feel this way, but, while I am against capital punishment across the board, there are some things worth going to jail for.

A jury would have a hard time convicting somebody who murdered a child rapist... and if they did, they'd probably get some kind of reduced sentence.

God, a society of blood thirsty, revenge minded Neanderthals.

And you people claim to be advanced........

"Thou Shall Not Kill"

It's more than just 4 words assholes.

The children are the victims, and they pretty much experienced something that might be considered worse than being put out of their misery. They may be suicidal, have many mental problems or even continue the cycle by becoming a rapist themselves. I support killing child rapists. I would be fine with putting them in prison for life if A) Life actually meant Life, and B) they were put in a 10'x10' cage and spent 2 hours a day there with no cable, no weights, no smokes, and nothing else. If they, along with every other prisoners were treated like prisoners, that would be just fine. Then, instead of costing 50k, 60k, or whatever the annual fee is, it would be cost effective and effective all around.

Regarding the Death Penalty, we all know it's much more money that a $6 injection. It's a HUGE amount of money after appeals, after the unbelievable amount of time it takes and all other things considered.

Conclusion? No matter what, the whole system is fucked.

Germany realized after WWII that if the government has the right to take human life then it is just a matter of the reasons for doing so. We never thought we'd have a president who lied us into a war, we don't think we'll have a government that will kill us for little or no reason...avoid slippery slopes.

"I'm glad the Supreme Court is standing their ground against expanding the category of capital crimes. Child molesters are heinous and evil people, but giving the needle to non-murderers would snowball to other crimes. All of which would clog the courts with particularly difficult cases."

Posted by rcade

Here is a hypothetical case for your opinion: Robber goes into a store with a gun and tells the owner to give him money. The owner says FU. The perp aims very carefully and shoots the owner in the chest aiming for his heart. However, he is strung our on coke and a bit shaky and the owner is hit but not fatally. The paramedics come and pump him full of fluids and he has emergency surgery and lives. The perp in later caught and identified by video, prints and DNA.

Please tell me why this should not be a capital crime?

Thou Shall Not Kill.
Eye for an Eye.

They're both in the bible and open to interpretation.

Are you okay with Abortion by any chance, Manypaths?

Just curious.

"Sully,

You need to educate yourself as well on the costs of imprisonment."

A maximum security prisoner easily costs $100K per year in many states. Your condescending attitude isn't warranted given the fact that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

"The attack caused internal injuries and bleeding to the child, requiring extensive surgery, as well as severe emotional trauma, Louisiana prosecutors said."

Posted by Sully at 2008-06-25 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

It's disgusting that our governemnt isn't allowed to kill it's citizens for crimes that do not merit death?

Boy, you might want to look into getting yourself a burka. Something tells me that you would love Sharia Law. They kill their citizens for all sorts of reasons.

What is disgusting is your chants for death. I am ashamed to have to share this country with people like you.

By WOMAN:

You are what's disgusting. Ever been raped as a child by a grown man?? I HAVE! Put a bullet in them I say.

One thing you might want to consider.
Children LIE. Frequently.
Remember all those daycare center witch hunts in the 80s?
The fabricated or leading testimony? The "suppressed" memories?
Would you want to execute someone on that kind of evidence?
Seriously. Think about it.

It's not so much revenge as it is practicality. Why put these people away for 40, 50, 60 years at $62,500 a year when we can just end them with a $5 chemical cocktail and ensure they will not offend again?

Posted by the_nether at 2008-06-25 12:47 PM

Many,

Please understand that if I had my way these people would be sitting in the executioners chair during the trial, and once convicted the lethal dose would be administered, and thank you ladies and gentlemen, and next case. No appeals, no more cost to the tax payer.

Since you are so wise in the ways of capital punishment costs, please explain how filling the system with kiddy rapists to the tune of $62,500 or so a year is more cost effective than that.

Also, there don't seem to be any real concrete numbers on this but I found anywhere from 1.5 to 2 million dollars for a capital punishment case in our current system. In Minnesota we pay the afore mentioned $62,500 a year per inmate, so we only have to house an inmate for 32 years to make the death penalty worth it. I don't know the average age of a child rapist, but if it's anything south of 40 (assuming a life expectancy of 72), then I guess we're making hay.

Are you okay with Abortion by any chance, Manypaths?

I am a male. Abortion isn't and never will be an option that I will have to consider. It's the woman's, and will always be the woman's.

Eye for an Eye? That is exactly what is going to happen to this child rapist is prison. A Hole for a Hole is more accurate though.

Put a bullet in them I say.

Go do it yourself you angry bitch!

The real problem I have with that nether, is that we would be potentially killing innocent people. Until our system is 100% correct, we shouldn't be killing people (and I am for the death penalty in cases where there is absolutely no doubt, if such a thing were possible).

Supremes Reject Death Penalty for Child Rape

Somewhere Dethpud is celebrating like a rock star........

Please understand that if I had my way these people would be sitting in the executioners chair during the trial, and once convicted the lethal dose would be administered, and thank you ladies and gentlemen, and next case. No appeals, no more cost to the tax payer.

There are some third world countries that you would just LOVE to live in.

Go. This is America, and we are more civil in our approach to justice. If you don't like it, go live in China.

"One thing you might want to consider.
Children LIE. Frequently."

Show me a rapist convicted solely on verbal testimony and not physical evidence like blood, semen, etc, and you might have a point. It doesn't happen.

Okay. Just curious. But you as a man. Do you believe that a woman has a right to kill her unborn child? I'm sure that you have an opinion on this. Everyone does.

I couldn't resist posting here...especially since it will be to make an abrupt break from my usual staunch conservatism....

While I have no problem with the death penalty - and pretty much think it should be used more often - the problem with using it in this instance is the nature of the crime and the evidence that supports it. I have seen WAY too many times during a divorce when one party (usually the woman) uses an allegation of rape / molestation / lewd acts against the father to gain the upper hand. These charges can be supported even without the finding of DNA somewhere that it should not be. (I actually had a client that sat in jail for over a year on a lewd mol count waiting for trial on obviously false allegations before he was acquitted by the jury - no evidence but the word of his accuser.)

I do not and cannot believe that it is just to take a life except in the most serious offenses and supported by the strongest of evidence. Too often, I have read criminal appeals decisions that essentially say, "yeah there were 15 errors that were made during the trial, and defendant failed to raise some good points - so they are now waived, but no one is entitled to a perfect trial, only a fair one...kill him." That disturbs me greatly.

I believe that a woman has the right to end her pregnancy at any time. It is her choice to deliver a baby into this world and nobody elses.

"Too often, I have read criminal appeals decisions that essentially say, "yeah there were 15 errors that were made during the trial, and defendant failed to raise some good points - so they are now waived, but no one is entitled to a perfect trial, only a fair one...kill him."

How often is "too often?" Since they are appeals cases, they should be accessible online - perhaps you have a few to cite to?

Poor Woobie there is just not enough Death and Horror on this Planet for him.

Get an X-box.

Posted by donnerboy

I start my post saying, "Look, I'm against the death penalty," which I am... there are very few cases where I can see the need to put a prisoner to death... this just happens to be one of those subjects where I'm torn, and I'm certainly not going to stand up for child rapists...

You're an idiot, and you were never a marine.

Child rapists should be brutally and publicly executed, and their corpses should be left in a ditch for the crows and vultures to eat.

It's not about revenge it's about closure. The way it is now seems like these guy get out in few years and (who woulda thunk it?) do it again. It creates a feeling that these "people" go unpunished and breeds fear.

In short, I do not believe that the Government should have any say so in when human beings enter or exit this world.

It is a simple as that.

Go. This is America, and we are more civil in our approach to justice. If you don't like it, go live in China.

POSTED BY MANYPATHS
-----------

Yep, we treat our child rapists a little better here. That's what makes this the greatest country on earth.

What a thing to be proud of, you twat.

Manypaths said:
Put a bullet in them I say.

Go do it yourself you angry bitch!

I say give me a gun! You are damn right I am angry! I am angry that this country's court system does not see ""The attack caused internal injuries and bleeding to the child, requiring extensive surgery, as well as severe emotional trauma, Louisiana prosecutors said." as punishable by death. I do. Call me names, it's typical of liberals.

but giving the needle to non-murderers would snowball to other crimes.

You can be executed for non-murder crimes like treason and espianoge... that has never snowballed into other crimes deserving of capital punishment.

"I believe that a woman has the right to end her pregnancy at any time. It is her choice to deliver a baby into this world and nobody elses."

Posted by Manypaths

Then you disagree with Roe vs Wade?

Okay. Thanks for your honest opinion. So I guess that means the four words, "thou shall not kill" don't apply to everyone then according to this logic, correct?

As long as it's a woman killing her baby, it's okay. But we shouldn't be so hard on a child rapist or a person who's already violated those four words.

a sincere thanks for your candor.

Child rapists should be brutally and publicly executed, and their corpses should be left in a ditch for the crows and vultures to eat.

In some countries they are. Why don't you go live in one?

Joe,

What do you mean, that they should be able to execute you twice?

False convictions based on the word of compromised drug addicts happen all the time. The system fails 10% of the time. Either by releasing the rich guilty or convicting the poor innocent. Ask any black man. Believe me, they know.

For most of human history, if somebody assaulted your child or any member of your family for that matter, you killed him

Unless it was another family member, the most common child molester group. Look at the posting about the Texas swingers. One was a parent. Throw in Johnson's complaints that most child molestation charges(not that I agree with him) are based on "false memories" and you've got a couple of real problems. What kid or his parents is gonna have grandpa the diddler executed (or do we only execute non-relatives?) and how do you recusitate somebody when the kid recants? And if raping a 14 y/o gets you the needle, does 15? And what's the big difference between 16, 17 qnd 18?

From the article:
Police arrested Kennedy a couple of weeks after the March 1998 rape, but more than 20 months passed before the girl identified him as her attacker.

How long would it have taken her if she knew her stepfather (the rapist)would be executed?

A second Louisiana man, Richard Davis was sentenced to death in December for repeatedly raping a 5-year-old girl

That's at the end of the article... Like I said, for the most part I'm against the death penalty... but not in this case. This man should be executed...

That 5 year old girl will never have a normal life after this... she just won't, for all intents and purposes, he did kill her.

"What do you mean, that they should be able to execute you twice?"

No. You claimed that a decision the other way in this case would serve as a reason for rapists to kill the victim, due to some supposed "less chance of conviction" in a murder case.

What I'm saying is that if the decision went the other way, rapists who killed their victims would still be held to the supposedly "lesser" standard of rape convictions when facing their rape charge. They would then be held to the standard for murder on the murder charge.

I am angry that this country's court system does not see ""The attack caused internal injuries and bleeding to the child, requiring extensive surgery, as well as severe emotional trauma, Louisiana prosecutors said." as punishable by death.

So does a drunk driving accident, a driving error or an on the job accident. Or the rape of an adult woman.

Off with their heads?

So I guess that means the four words, "thou shall not kill" don't apply to everyone then according to this logic, correct?

You are trying to put words into my mouth. I do not consider terminating a pregnancy as killing.

I understand that you do, and I won't even try to change your mind.

You and I see it differently. That's all.

again:

I do not believe that the Government should have any say so in when human beings enter or exit this world. (That is a period at the end)

"I do not believe that the Government should have any say so in when human beings enter or exit this world."

What about statutes that require DNR orders to be signed by a capable party prior to becoming a vegetable, in order for life-saving treatment to be removed? Should we delete all of those laws and let the doctors decide?

Please tell me why this should not be a capital crime?

Because it's not murder.

people only get the death penalty here in the USA when the case contains overwhelming evidence.
Flimsy murder cases cannot even qualify for a possible death sentence. So why should we be worried about this happening in the case of a child rape case?
Surely if it is a divorced mother as the only eveidence against the father accusing the father, I would imagine then that this case could not carry the death sentence.
On the other hand a repeated offender with overwhelming evidence ( forgive me I am not a lawyer but there is some terminology or something to describe that there is overwhelming facts against the defendant , and the defendant does not and cannot refute the evidence).
THESE kind of cases, as murder cases do now, ought to have the death penalty as a sentence for child rapists.

"In some countries they are. Why don't you go live in one?"

What a stupid fucking arguement. This country was designed so people could disagree with public policy and change it.

Hint - The way you can tell your arguement sucks is when it can be easily turned back on you: There are plenty of countries, not this one, where people can't express a political opinion or seek changes in policy. Why don't you go live in one of them?

What I'm saying is that if the decision went the other way, rapists who killed their victims would still be held to the supposedly "lesser" standard of rape convictions when facing their rape charge. They would then be held to the standard for murder on the murder charge.

Since most rape convictions are based on victim's complaint and testimony, I don't think a dead victim would work out too well in the trial.

But back to the article-the girl originally claimed two boys raped her-anybody want to say they should have been executed based on her original testimony?

"It's not so much revenge as it is practicality. Why put these people away for 40, 50, 60 years at $62,500 a year when we can just end them with a $5 chemical cocktail and ensure they will not offend again?

Posted by the_nether at 2008-06-25 12:47 PM

As stated above, the average cost per inmate per year is 25k and it costs more to execute someone than to jail them for life. Reason being, they're placed in death row (costs 90k per year), there are numerous legal proceedings that are costly, death penalty cases cost more to try (almost 50% more), etc. The costs to kill someone far exceed the costs to jail them--sometimes at a 2:1 ratio.

"Since most rape convictions are based on victim's complaint and testimony, I don't think a dead victim would work out too well in the trial."

Actually, most rape convictions are based on a totality of evidence including verbal testimony, physical evidence (blood and semen), lack of an alibi, etc. Further, in the dead victim example, it is fairly easy for a doctor conducting an autopsy to conclude that the victim was raped - typically the offender's blood, semen and pubic hair would not be in the victim's vaginal area unless he raped her.

Show me a person who was convicted of rape based solely on verbal testimony and you might have a point. Until then, STFU.

Flimsy murder cases cannot even qualify for a possible death sentence.

And yet, people on death row are proven to be wrongly convicted and set free at an embarrassing rate, Fredo.

Joe asks..."How often is "too often?" Since they are appeals cases, they should be accessible online - perhaps you have a few to cite to?"

How about:

DeWolf v. State, 96 Okla.Crim. 382, 256 P.2d 191
Davis v. State, 123 P.3d 243
Selsor v. State, 2 P.3d 344, 2000 OK CR 9
Douglas v. State, 951 P.2d 651, 1997 OK CR 79
Bland v. State, 4 P.3d 702, 2000 OK CR 11

All of these are available at www.oscn.net. There are plenty more there if you care to read them. My question to you is "Isn't ONE time 'too often' if you are the one that is accused?"

And yet, people on death row are proven to be wrongly convicted and set free at an embarrassing rate, Fredo

Substantiate that comment.

freed from DEATH ROW at an embarassing rate ??? you sure ???????

DeWolf v. State, 96 Okla.Crim. 382, 256 P.2d 191

Are you basically questioning the "harmless error" doctrine? These cases involve overwhelming evidence of guilt.

what rate wouldn't be emabarassing to you, Fredo?

A federal appeals court Monday threw out the conviction of a 36-year-old Carlin man found guilty of raping a 9-year-old girl in 1994, saying DNA testimony from a Washoe County Crime Laboratory scientist was "misleading" and "unreliable."

damn. We missed out on a good old public beheading.

Fredo-Gov. Ryan pardoned 4 men on death row in Illinois in 2003. I suppose they just happened to be the only 4 innocent guys ever put on death row, though.

And joe-if the victim is dead, how's that verbal evidence get introduced?

"And joe-if the victim is dead, how's that verbal evidence get introduced? "

Like I said - maybe there isn't verbal evidence. Many times physical evidence is more reliable because the victim isn't being cross-examined by a scumbag lawyer who only wants to make her look like a whore. My only point was that you can still be convicted of rape even if you kill the victim.

And Joe-ever hear of consensual sex? It leaves semen and hair too.

No, I am providing you with cases where the court has heard numerous errors that were made, correctly pointed out that you are not entitled to a "perfect trial", merely a "fair one" and that under THOSE circumstances, you can be executed.

Harmless error is a purely discretionary finding that the appellate court gets to make to "cure" an error at trial. I am well aware of it. My point is that you can't undo the death penalty and there are some cases where other evidence is excluded or errors are deemed "harmless", even in these cases.

As stated above, the average cost per inmate per year is 25k and it costs more to execute someone than to jail them for life. Reason being, they're placed in death row (costs 90k per year), there are numerous legal proceedings that are costly, death penalty cases cost more to try (almost 50% more), etc. The costs to kill someone far exceed the costs to jail them--sometimes at a 2:1 ratio.
POSTED BY __B__
-----------

Also as stated above...

"Please understand that if I had my way these people would be sitting in the executioners chair during the trial, and once convicted the lethal dose would be administered, and thank you ladies and gentlemen, and next case. No appeals, no more cost to the tax payer."

POSTED BY THE_NETHER AT 2008-06-25 01:08 PM

"ever hear of consensual sex? It leaves semen and hair too."

Does it leave signs of a struggle? A dead body, too?

You are being deliberately obtuse. There are ways for doctors to tell if a dead victim has been raped. Just because you don't know (or are pretending not to know) that is irrelevant and not worth discussing any further.

"I am providing you with cases where the court has heard numerous errors that were made, correctly pointed out that you are not entitled to a "perfect trial", merely a "fair one" and that under THOSE circumstances, you can be executed. "

I'm reading another one now. Your extraction of that "principle" from these cases does not appear to be appropriate. Not much else I can say to you other than the fact that the decisions regarding ineffective counsel in the Davis case have nothing to do with getting a perfect trial. I'd argue that there's no such thing as a perfect trial anyway, since lawyers and judges are human beings. We aren't talking about evidentiary errors, but criminals coming back and saying "my lawyer should have argued X or Y" even though they are free to terminate their lawyer at any time.

Why not just give them everything and make them responsible for nothing...Oh...They do...

Fredo-Gov. Ryan pardoned 4 men on death row in Illinois in 2003. I suppose they just happened to be the only 4 innocent guys ever put on death row, though.

Thanks for the evidence about 4 particular men. so that makes 4 out of , let's see..... how many people are there, and have there ever been, on death row?

BTW what you "suppose" , I guess does not matter. Show me the facts - what is the rate of death row "mistakes"

"Please understand that if I had my way these people would be sitting in the executioners chair during the trial, and once convicted the lethal dose would be administered, and thank you ladies and gentlemen, and next case. No appeals, no more cost to the tax payer."

So the justice system is perfect and OJ didn't do it? Nether. you are too much of a badge bunny and order follower if you seriously believe cops and prosecutors and juries don't lie or fuck up.

Imagine spending years on death row for a brutal murder that you didn't commit, until one day, finally, your life is saved and your name is cleared.
Tonight, meet three men just like that and hear their stories. First of all, Ray Krone. DNA evidence freed Krone after 10 years, four of them on Arizona's death row, for the brutal stabbing death of a young woman. Gary Gauger, sentenced to death for killing his own parents, despite no physical evidence. Three years later, his verdict overturned. And Ronald Keine, 10 days away from the New Mexico death chamber for the murder of a New Mexico college student, until another man's confession got him a new trial.

Try the google, Fredo.

Joe,

I understand that there is no such thing as a "perfect trial". You are exactly correct that we are all human. However, don't you think that the stiffer the penalty that is handed down, the closer to perfect we should be? Don't you think that just as the burden of proof is the highest we impose that the standard of review should be equally strict?

If an attorney screwed up and failed to make an argument or call a witness or raise an objection or make a point that might have changed the outcome of the trial, don't you think that should be done before we EXECUTE someone? That is my position, not that the death penalty is wrong.

Liberals can be counted for having a compassion attack for the assailant - but NOT the victim.

Silly Liberals getting it wrong again.

Thanks a pantload, assholes.

So, if a rapist rapes a child and the penalty is death, why wouldn't he just murder the child after he rapes her/him since the penalty is the same? This decision will probably save the lives of many children.

That 5 year old girl will never have a normal life after this... she just won't, for all intents and purposes, he did kill her.
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Monumentally stupid flag^

"Please understand that if I had my way these people would be sitting in the executioners chair during the trial, and once convicted the lethal dose would be administered, and thank you ladies and gentlemen, and next case. No appeals, no more cost to the tax payer."

POSTED BY THE_NETHER AT 2008-06-25 01:08 PM

Yeah, that should do wonders for ensuring we don't execute innocent people. Brilliant.

While you're at it, why not allow cops to shoot criminals who admit guilt? Why waste the time on a trial?

what is the rate of death row "mistakes"

What number would it take to raise your conscience?

LOL

Besides, today the death penalty isn't a lot different from anesthesia. A guy might worry what awaits him but it's not like getting hanged, or the electric chair. So I don't see the revenge angle at all. Dump the guy into the general population and he'll have a taste of hell right here on Earth.

Personally I'd have to be completely convinced that someone had committed the crime before voting a death penalty. Any shred of doubt and I'd vote no because it is an irreversible action.

Monumentally stupid flag^

Posted by Jay

And you know this because you were once raped as a 5 year old girl?

Monumentally ignorant flag...

like i said

the removal of his genetalia and penole needs to happen

rob
i agree with you that i'm torn

i'm against the death penalty

but some people are so twisted
that only some sort of twisted punishment will prevent them from doing these things again.

being a sex offender AND a dickless wonder
might be the way to go

btw
don't people like this guy
normally get murdered in prison??

i mean why then should we keep him alive

isn't that cruel and unusual punishment??

Monumentally stupid flag^

Posted by Jay

Says the guy whose parents named him after a letter.

No, but I'll take being "raped as a 5 year old girl" over being "raped and murdered as a 5 year old girl" any day of the week.

I'm not trying to minimize what happened to these victims, but for Rob to say that "for all intents and purposes, he did kill her" is being very capricious about life and death.

"So, if a rapist rapes a child and the penalty is death, why wouldn't he just murder the child after he rapes her/him since the penalty is the same? This decision will probably save the lives of many children."

maybe but it will also allow a lot more rapage.

the death penalty has already been proven to not be a deterant in crimes

the death penalty's main purponents argue that its better for society since there is no cure for child raping. Since there is no cure, eliminate the people that are twisted as to prevent them from doing it again.

Lots of stuff worth pondering here:

Is Woman (upper case) really a woman (lower case)?

How did the killing of a non-killer disintegrate again into a reproductive rights forum?

Since killing a killer in MY name reduces me to the level of a killer, does killing a child raper reduce me to the level of a child raper?

Has anyone ever seen 101 Chair and any of the SCOTUS Fascist Four in the same room? I see the bogus paratrooper as a perverted caricature, like Ann Coulter, but wonder if a turd masquerading under that pen name really lives in an institution for the criminally insane. herm

Posted by 101Chairborne

Says the guy whose parents named him 101chairborne?

Northguy -

while it is a provable fact that people have been released from death row - surely i hope you agree that child rapists should be killed (if not also tortured)when there is irrefutable proof (including DNA evidence) to convicet them.

In the cases that you pasted above, ( BTW what does "google" mean ?) it appears those people were convicted without suppporting DNA evidence.

COME ON, join me? won't you? Can we agree that if there is overwhelming proof including DNA evidence, and if the ofense is particularly egregious, that the rapist of young children should be erdicated from the earth ??

WHO'S COMIN' WITH ME ????? !

"the death penalty has already been proven to not be a deterant in crimes"

I'll believe that when I see an executed guy return.

but for Rob to say that "for all intents and purposes, he did kill her" is being very capricious about life and death.

Posted by Jay

Well I don't know who this "Rob" is that you speak of; BUT I was pondering this weighty issue and I was actually thinking to myself that the mind and life of that poor young raped child is a ruined one. that poor little one is never going to be close to normal. Most likely they will be forever consumed by the unimagineable horror of the inexplicable violent rape. What's the difference if they were dead. If you believe in the afterlife, perhaps death is better.

Let's not forget we are talking about CHILDREN as the victims here. As opposed to, let's say if I, an adult male, was gang raped by a group of soccer moms in the bathroom of TGI Fridays.

but for Rob to say that "for all intents and purposes, he did kill her" is being very capricious about life and death.

Posted by Jay

Well I don't know who this "Rob" is that you speak of; BUT I was pondering this weighty issue and I was actually thinking to myself that the mind and life of that poor young raped child is a ruined one. that poor little one is never going to be close to normal. Most likely they will be forever consumed by the unimagineable horror of the inexplicable violent rape. What's the difference if they were dead. If you believe in the afterlife, perhaps death is better.

Let's not forget we are talking about CHILDREN as the victims here. As opposed to, let's say if I, an adult male, was gang raped by a group of soccer moms in the bathroom of TGI Fridays.

I'll believe that when I see an executed guy return.

Posted by Danforth

You need to meet a friend of mine named Jesus Christ. (not that he was a murderer, though)

being a sex offender AND a dickless wonder
might be the way to go

Posted by klifferd

Except that with child molesters as well as your run of the mill rapist, it isn't about the sex necessarily, but about the power...

I think prison with an identifying scarlet letter might be appropriate... alot of guys in jail are fathers you know.

What's the difference if they were dead.

Fredo, would you love your daughter less if she was raped?

Everyone here who disagrees with the 5-4 ruling is right to do so. But as citizens, we dont have to agree with it becuase what we think does not matter. What the conservatives on the court think does not matter either. As you always here the right saying about the liberals on the court, you can not be an activist and vote what you think should be. you should only vote to interpret the constition, where it clearly states no cruel and unusual punishment. The death penalty traditional is issued in eye for an eye cases. It is sick what some people out there do to our kids, and as a father, I would play out my own death penalty if someone raped my daughter. But, the CONSTITUTION says differently. NO CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT. So from this. whether you agree or not, today's decision was the right one (no pun intended).

Jay I would not love my daughter less if she was raped. unfortunately, though, her life, her mind, her relation to the world and everything around her would be destroyed. I fear she would love me, other people, and life a lot less. we are talking about an immature psyche here.

BTW whAT IS YOUR POINT? Is it : Because I would still love my daughter, never mind the animal that totally fucked her up? That is kind of a wierd selfish kinda fucked up viewpoint that I think you are trying to develop here.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child,"

An Eye for an Eye?

That's biblical. How dare the Supreme Court apply a religious theme to their decision.

That's a violation of the separation of Church and State.

I'd love to hear these justices tell us the true proportional punishment for the rape of a child.

I'm sure what they'd suggest would be struck down by this same Supreme Court if the suggested punishment was passed into law.

Perhaps if the rapist was sold into slavery for the rest of their lives would be sufficient punishment. It's legal under the Constitution - if convicted is the key word for slavery. There's lots of jobs the rapist should be given that no one else will do. I can think of some...

FREDO; The problem with your 'egregious" idea is you are now creating a new level of crime. If some sicko grabs a 5 y/o off the playground and rapes her, you'd kill him, right? what if uncle bob or grandpa has been sneaking in to her room for a couple of years? would you want to execute grandpa too?
"Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often fathers, uncles or cousins; around 60% are other acquaintances such as friends of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases. "

Remember that in the case posted, the girl accused two other boys. Usually the cops would have been happy with that and they'd be facing the death penalty.

PETROUS here's another idea kinda in the same vein -

let's actually indulge the "eye for an eye" concept-

Why don't we sentence child rapists to the same fate. Let's bind them and rape them in the ass. Ah except: because the punishment has to MATCH the crime, we will need to think about the physiology for a moment. In order to match the heinousness (sp?)of a fully grown male raping the smaller physical size of a child, we would need to make the raping instrument that is used on the offender proportional. Like perhaps if we ass raped all child rapers with the wide end of a baseball bat, about a 16 inches deep, for about an hour. That would be OK, I would accept that in place of the death penalty. scan back over my posts in the thread you will see I am not being smart -ass sarcastic.

The problem with jails is we believe proportional punishment means time behind bars.

For crimes, time in jail is insufficient.

With free food, clothes, medicine, education, health, gym, libraries, (and in my State we've had problems with assorted extracurricular activities) etc. - jail is no longer sufficient for crimes.

Vindictive. That's the word.

Most of you are vindictive people. You need to realize that.

May you feel better about yourself with each life that is taken by your government.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child,"

Guess they don't think of the victim now do they!

I go back and forth on this issue of the Death penalty in general--

It costs more--but the deterrent works since the guilty is put to death.

Why not compromise? Let's put the stepdad in this case out into the general population.

Fredo, that may be proportional, but you can be guaranteed that the Supreme Court would say that it is unjust punishment.

Do you think people should be beaten for crimes of assault with a deadly weapon?

Proportional. To the courts - all they think about is time in jail. We don't 'punish' criminals.

OK NGuy forget the word egregious.....bad choice on my part.....

let's say if it is not like a "date rape" of a 16 year old girl where there may have been some evidence of consent....

what I am saying is: murder cases can have a certain level of criteria that make prosecutors seek the death penalty. what if we had those guidelines for the rape of a child and these guidleines included DNA evidence ?

and yes, in your example , i would see that grampa rode the lightning. I think I might wanna see grampa fry even more than the playground guy. Grampa just seems a little more twisted, in some way.

Douche. Thats the word.

Manypaths you are a douche. You need to realize that.

May your douchey ignorance bring you years of bliss.

With every child rapist that gets three hots and a cot for 40 years instead of a cold slab in the prison morgue, you can feel warm and fuzzy knowing that in your douchey eyes, justice has been served.

Douche

Boy the truth stings in the Nether regions don't it?

Douche? Is that the best that you can do you vindictive little troll?

So let's make the punishment for rape of a child mandatory life in prison without the possiblity of parole.

There has to be some degrees of evidence met to qualify. You can't put away someone who had consentual, statutory-rape, sex.

That would relieve the anti death penalty folks minds and help the punish by death crowd breathe easier since the pig can't get out to do it again.

Deterrance voila!

I wouldn't waste my best on you douche. It's just the most fitting description of you.

Now put those fingers back in your ears and resume screaming "vindictive" at everything that walks by. That'll enlighten us trolls.

Vindictive. That's the word.

Most of you are vindictive people. You need to realize that.

May you feel better about yourself with each life that is taken by your government.

Posted by Manypaths

Many,

Vindictive? I don't agree. When my child does something wrong, there are different levels of punishment. The level of punishment varies upon the action.

I am not being vindictive. I'm a caring parent. The purpose of the punishment isn't to cause pain and discomfort. It is to change the behavior of the child to conform with the laws (currently, those laws at home).

When the child goes into the real world, the laws out there will be far more harsh than I ever delivered. I want my child to have respect for the law and disgust for the unlawful.

Society demands respect from society. It isn't vindictive to expect citizenry to respect the rights of others and it should be expected that the lawless are punished to protect the citizenry.

Manypaths you can use the word TROLL against people eighteen times in any thread you want but it does not place you on any level above any poster here, including me, the misunderstood and ignored but mighty FREDO...

It it self evident that when it comes to the concept of the rape of a little child, you are clearly interested in the protection of the rapist.

You know at the end of the day i couldn't really care less about anybody or anything posted here on this stupid website, so when I say this please trust it is with extreme sincerity - you need to get your head screwed on straight. You are going to have some problems in this world somewhere down the line. good luck.

So let's make the punishment for rape of a child mandatory life in prison without the possiblity of parole.

Amen, Murphy.

Vindictive.

Voting for anyone except a Republican because of Bush and voting for anyone except a Democrat because of Clinton is vindictive.

Justified, probably, but still vindictive.

Hell I don't know why eveyone isn't jumping on board with my idea of baseball bat ass rape as a sentence.

A. avoids the death penalty
B. doesn't cost a lot of taxpayer $ - hell you could get volunteers, I'm sure
C. Extreme deterent
D. I think it COULD past muster with the Supreme Court if they are going to base it on "eye for an eye" and also I do not find it that "unusual" a punishment.

So let's make the punishment for rape of a child mandatory life in prison without the possiblity of parole.

That's not punishment. That's life without worries.
Granted, it's life without kiddies, too, but it is still without worries.

Giving a criminal everything they need to survive for the rest of their life isn't justice nor punishment.

The Constitution forbids unjust punishment. But, punishment, when just, is constitutional.

Punish them. We need something better than just jail time and community service.

It it self evident that when it comes to the concept of the rape of a little child, you are clearly interested in the protection of the rapist.

The only thing that is self evident is that you are an idiot.

We send these people to prison where they are treated as the worst of the worst. Pedo's don't do very well in prison there Skippy.

But seek your revenge and seek their death, but realize that you and I are very dirfferent and I could not be more proud of that. As I know, that I sit on the side of American Justice and I am on the correct side of what is right and what is wrong.

See you in court bitch!

It is shocking that the Conservatives get it so wrong, so often. Posted by Manypaths at 2008-06-25 12:37 PM

"You need to meet a friend of mine named Jesus Christ."

Send him over. I'm in the book.

Nope. you have to come to Him.

Petrous,

Change the behavior is different from eliminating all behavior.

Seeking blood and death as punishment for a rape crime is vindictive.

Throwing them in jail is punishment. I don't care how long these people are in jail or if they ever return to society. But I do care that people feel that our elected officials can play the role of God by ending the lives of human beings on this planet.

NOBODY IN THIS WORLD should have that power or anyone else, but some people in here think differently.

I disagree with those blood thirsty individuals.

When it comes to dogs we call it 'putting them out of their misery'.

Why do you consider it punishment when it pertains to humans?

Rotting in jail getting ass reamed by Bubba in cell #2 seems more "proportional" don't you think?

It's the "LET'S KILL'EM JAKE" crowd that wants to let these fuckers off by putting them out of their misery.

I say, let them rot!

"Nope. you have to come to Him."

D'you mean He's NOT everywhere, as is claimed?

"You need to meet a friend of mine named Jesus Christ."

He's still dead by the way.

Over 2000 years and counting.

"Nothing's going to bring him back.......He's Gone!"

Thanks for the reminder though. You blood-th