Agreed. But it gives the politicians something to brag about... as long as they keep this little bit of info quiet.
Biofuel from recycled cooking oil is one thing, but its quite another when you start using land that previously was used to actually feed them.

that sounds promising.

Hemp?

Damn that law of unintended consequences.

Why aren't the liberals in here depending their position that biofuels are the way to go?

After all, this year alone, 30 MILLION people around the globe are being cast into poverty as a result of biofuels.

The world thanks you liberals! Your the best chance for the world by far!

Another few years of liberal control, and maybe a billion people get tossed into poverty.

Great plan, go biofuels! Save the earth!

Global warming! Oil = bad taxes + biofuels = good.

I wish I was a liberal, I would sleep better at night knowing I am saving the earth at the expense of millions of people.

Kuma

Good post Kuma and when Obama, Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, and the libs are done maybe 1 billion more will be in poverty.

Check this little heart warming story of Bio-fuel.

In Decatur IL last summer a man had converted his truck to run on BIO-Diesel. Then he went the extra step and refined used oils form local fast food restaurants to run his truck. Till the state of IL found out about it. He was ordered to pay the state a sum in the area of 16,000 dollers for "Fuel Tax". Check it out on your own, the story gets better, but i dont have the time. Just google it. Laugh, then cry.

This claim is a bunch of bullshit. Those 30 million (if that is the actual number) will starve regardless of our biofuel policy. And I would be willing to bet that the Oil Empire funded the study.
Give me fucking E85 in NJ NOW!!!

What is it you think E85 will do for you (besides give you lower gas mileage)?

GOTTRUTH:
An important topic you have raised.
Yes, we do have to figure out how we are going to pay for the creation and maintenance of our highways. The traditional methond of collecting a tax on the purchase of gasoline and diesel is quickly becoming outdated. But I do agree that the old man in your story should at least get off with a warning first. And then he should be commended for his ingenuity.

How about a choice? How about stripping away the monopoly status that the gasoline industry currently has? How about growing and producing more of our own fuel instead of relying on foreign oil?
E85 is certainly not the one and only true solution for our energy problems. But it is a step in the right direction.

it is 30 million you fucking fucktard.

Thats not bullshit, but if you want to believe whatever the fuck you want just because you can't "see it" first hand, then go on being a card carrying liberal.

You liberal fuckhead NJDevil.

Right now its 30M. When its 100M you still won't hve a fucking clue.

In fact, you won't have a fucking clue unless your own family goes into poverty, and even then you will blame Bush.

Thats how fucked your head is.

Kuma

KUMA
I assume that you can see it first hand? You counted 30 million? And who are you calling liberal? Read some of my other posts and enjoy your humble pie.
I've heard that bullshit being thrown around for months. There have been starving people long before we started to play around with biofuels.
You've been successfully brainwashed. Take a bow.

Who ever said they were perfect? New tecnologies and ideas take time, so there's a blip as we figure things out. Maybe now we'll rethink hemp or garbage. It's not like things are going so perfect as they are.

And for the record, I was never for using raw food as fuel. I would prefer hemp, or used vegtable oil. A guy I work with is touring Alaska right now using a bus he converted to use veg oil that he gets and filters and uses.

"How about stripping away the monopoly status that the gasoline industry currently has?"

Gasoline industry? on gas?

Entertainment industry had a monopoly on entertainment.
The communication industry has a monopoly on communication.
The point is you really said nothing but it sounded good.

How about stripping away the monopoly that the congress currently has? Now there is change we can believe in.

TFDNihilist:
French fry grease is a great idea, but if we go mass market with it, we will quickly realize that we don't eat nearly enough fried foods to provide fuel for everyone.
I'm not married to the idea of using corn. There are many ways of extracting ethanol from plant material and I'm all for research. But I refuse to believe the big lie that biofuels cause starvation. And when I stand up and state that I don't believe it, dumb ass robots like KUMA will tag me as a liberal. They are brainwashed and part of the problem.

KBM:
Thank you for illustrating my point. I was referring to the gasoline industry having a monopoly on our transportation energy needs. But automatically, your mind focused in and read "gasoline monopoly on gas". We must break the mind set that only gasoline can power cars.

well!!
NOW I see the article must be factual, because KUMA wrote "fuck" seven times to defend it. This proves the truthiness of the article.

Thanks, Kuma.

He's gonna get his ass whooped when his Mommy comes home and searches his web history.
I think that he is either a young teenager or a very stupid adult.

He's gonna get his ass whooped when his Mommy comes home and searches his web history.
I think that he is either a young teenager or a very stupid adult.

He's gonna get his ass whooped when his Mommy comes home and searches his web history.
I think that he is either a young teenager or a very stupid adult.

He's gonna get his ass whooped when his Mommy comes home and searches his web history.
I think that he is either a young teenager or a very stupid adult.

It is my understanding (if my reading is correct) that ethanol actually takes more energy to produce it that it actually produces... or am I wrong?

Depends on who you ask and when you asked. From my understanding, we currently derive 1.5 units of energy from every 1.0 put into the process. Brazil is over 8 to 1 with their sugar cane. And your mileage is reduced between 25% to 33.3%. If the unit price of E85 exceeds those parameters, I would suggest passing it up and using traditional gasoline in your flex fuel vehicle.

"Simple and energy positive design - Coskata's process can produce up to 7.7 times more energy than what is used in making the ethanol. Corn-derived ethanol produces approximately 1.3 times the energy required (Argonne National Laboratory)."

My numbers are close to OZARKAGGIE, and he or she seems to know what they are talking about. I feel pretty good right now.

There are probably more studies indicating that corn ethanol is a net energy loser than the opposite, so you can stop congratulating yourself.

As far as Coskata, it sounds good, but whether it's corporate hype or the real deal remains to be seen.

nullifidian:
Feeling pretty good and congratulating myself are 2 different things, with regard to confidence levels. I do not argue with you regarding the number of studies indicating a net loss. It all depends on who is doing the science, who is crunching the numbers, and WHO IS SPONSORING the research project.

That's probably true. I would be highly skeptical of ethanol industry studies that show a net energy benefit for corn-based ethanol.

its in many sources, you fucktard idiots.

And what is it? You read it in many articles, read the sources, and since you don't agree with it, its not true?

Welcome to card carrying liberal central, can I take your order?

You fuckheads. Studies for YEARS backs this study. Nobody here refuted the articles sources, they just said its not true.

Wow, did your liberal professor teach you that in College on how to debate?

How about some mother fucking links to debunk this article DIRECTLY:?

Wait, liberals are incapable of debate, they can't stand it.

I guess this one goes in the liberal playbook called:

#3 Conspiracies by the right.

Kuma

I am quite taken by the wonderful words from KUMA. I've been reading some of your recent posts. I had to laugh at your claim to know what a true Christian is and isn't, or course it was peppered with "you fucking fuck face fucktards"

"You fuckheads. Studies for YEARS backs this study. Nobody here refuted the articles sources, they just said its not true."

What is your problem, Kuma? You keep attacking "liberals" but in fact most liberals probably agree with this study.

How about some mother fucking links to debunk this article DIRECTLY:?

From the article:

"...several aid agencies and analysts have warned of the possible downside of biofuel crop cultivation. One UN adviser went as far as describing biofuels as a "crime against humanity".

Golly Gee. How can you debunk aid agencies AND a UN adviser? They know the truth! We're CRIMINALS!

Guess KUMA's food stamps don't as far as they used to...

nullifidian:
I gladly accept your criticism and comments on my postings. It helps make me a better human being. But don't interfere with KUMAs rant. Read some of his recent postings and you will be entertained, I promise.
Jesus must be very proud of him.

"You keep attacking "liberals" but in fact most liberals probably agree with this study."

And yet the liberal man on point pushed this problem on the poor.....

Corn-based ethanol has just as much support from Republicans as Democrats these days. The difference is that some Democrats are smart enough to recognize a mistake, while most Republicans just want to continue this corporate welfare.

ethanol causing poverty? have they looked at the price of crude lately? corn lobbyists wouldn't have a row to hoe if oil wasn't so damn high.

That's what happens when you feed your car with corn.

BTW... GM cars are made to run with a rich fuel mixture which is good at 70 but eats your wallet around town.

John McCain's flipflop on ethanol.

Yes, this fuel using corn and soy is not helping the planet and its poorer population.

But the good news is that the answer is already there and waiting to burst out: the Microsoft of Alternative energy is already underway --- but it will take a while to rid off this present day fossil fuel which is in the dinosaur world awaiting its extinction.

Once this hits the market in a viable and broader scale, ordinary investors will become millionaires and plenty millionaires will be generated. Think of those who invested in Microsoft before it plateued. This of those who got stock option by accident (early employees) in Aol in the early stages.

America, you are about to astound the world and create riches for the planet. Americans, don't forget the God of your forefathers: the God of the Bible.

God bless America.

America is far from perfect, but God has chosen America to be a blessing to the world. To be a blessing, you must be blessed first!

Saudi Arabia, better diversify now or America is about to shove it --- your oil!

And the big oil corporations, get off your arrogance and begin strategizing to transition a huge chunk of your investments to non-fossil fuel, or you will be reduced by the proverbial David.

God bless America!

" Once this hits the market in a viable and broader scale,"

What is "this"?

Non-corn, non-soy, non-palm, non-fossil alternative fuel. Do your own homework, allocate or save some money, and put it where it will skyrocket.

Too much clues right? Can't be clearer than this.

And help the poor when you prosper.

"Non-corn, non-soy, non-palm, non-fossil alternative fuel. "

Lot of "non's" there. Are you going to specify these miracles or just talk out of your ass?

Took Spud a while to wrap his wee head around the notion that "Meat is Murder".

This idea that corn may also be starving folks to death is still a little too nouveau to grok completely.

That sed, the idear that the ethanol subsidies in the US are an complete waste of money and an unstoppable sop to Big Agra that neither the Dems nor the Reps seem to be able to repudiate is a no-brainer.

A good bad example sez Spud.

Be Well.

/With that sed, the tater o' doom is now leave the glowy warmth and comfort of the soothing yellow Drudge Retort, as ya do,
stage left.

Typical liberal policy - never look beyond the first "feel good" step to see the ramifications of what the policy will have.

Life is a game like chess..not checkers. A "feel good" move can have dire impacts later on. This is a perfect example; Biofuels to save the planet (that doesn't need savings as CO2 warming is a hoax) starve people, "Silent Spring" war against DDT - and millions in Africa die due to mosquito carried infections, Wind Power - causing massive killing of migrating birds. "Tax the rich" Clinton move on boats puts thousands of workers out of a job.

But ..go ahead...vote for OBAMA...get taxed to the hilt, have policies that gut our ability to produce and keep our standard of living, attack businesses that keep us employed and prosperous, don't drill and watch gas go through the 8 dollar mark grounding planes and the high paying jobs of building them, maintaining them, servicing them and flying them go out the window.

He is your next "feel good" step ...into the demise of the US as a world leader...but that is what you want anyways...

"Good post Kuma "

Posted by fwthom

When the likes of Kuma has an acolyte, I know the End Is Near.

"French fry grease is a great idea, but if we go mass market with it, we will quickly realize that we don't eat nearly enough fried foods to provide fuel for everyone."

Posted by NJDevi

Well, there is an easy solution to that: America must consume more fried foods. It must be done for the good of the nation. At great personal sacrifice, I will step up and increase my gobbling of Popeye's chicken (spicy!), Wendy's fries, Dairy Queen onion rings, and Outback onion blossoms.

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can gobble up for your country!

Are you with me?

Typical liberal policy - never look beyond the first "feel good" step to see the ramifications of what the policy will have.
Posted by foshaffer

So says a supporter of "Attack first and plan later" GWB.

In Truth, I am doing my part by avoiding as much as possible ethanol laden fuel.

For years, I had been purchasing 10% ethanol gas for my vehicles. A few months ago, I discovered a Phillips 66 station that sells no ethanol fuel. It does cost a few cents more per gallon. I started using it in my Subie and have discovered that I am obtaining easily 10 to 15 percent better mileage, which more than offsets the few pennies more in price. Verified by my ScanGauge II I installed a couple of years ago. Amazing.

If I was on the fence before, I am truly convinced that ethanol is little more than a scam.

I get sick of hearing this lie. Go look in the dumpster of any given grocery store what will you see?
We throw away tons and tons of food everyday. People are starving for political reasons not supply problems.

If you cross reference the places that are starving now with the places that were starving in say the 1980's I am willing to bet that you will have a point for point mapping or close to it.

This is just more BLAH BLAH BLAH! from the plutocracy.

As oil becomes rare and the price continues to rise, food prices are going to skyrocket anyway - unless we have viable alternative to oil. Doesn't matter how much food we grow if you can't get it to the people who need it. Using corn to create ethanol doesn't seem to work out well but we are going to have to try different things that may be painful in the short term for the good of the long term.

Alternative energy is a hoax. YOu will never be able to power this country without adding nuclear reactors to the mix so keep dreaming

Timmie,

I hate to break it to you but nukular power is alternative power.

Ya stupid git.

We COULD have been building breeder reactors and working on fusion, but NOOOOOOO, elect Reagan and the oil will last forever.

So we do NOTHING.

Bravo! America! Bravo!

The Tesla sure looks sweet.

A few windmills and solar panels and I could commute for free (Well, except for the car.) with zero emissions.

"YOu will never be able to power this country without adding nuclear reactors to the mix so keep dreaming"

Nuclear isn't a feasible solution to the transportation issue. Its part of a larger solution but not a complete one.

Zat,

Horse Caca.

Assuming the wind is blowing (which it doesn't all the time) the top end Windmill produces 250 KW of power. A Nuke plant (medium size) produces 1,786 MEGA Watts. So, assuming the wind blew 100% of a the time, you would need 70,000 Wind mills which take up 230 square feet of space.

So doing basic multiplication, it would require 14 MILLION square feet of space or apx 3000 square MILES of space. Normally the current wind mills work only 30% of the time (top end) so it would be apx. 9000 square miles! of land to just produce the same power of a single plant. The current ones are slaughtering birds like crazy...just imagine how many birds would be slaughtered with this.

In Virginia the power plant is actually buried and the lakes used for intake and out take of water is sold for lake front property and is some of the best fishing around.

"In Virginia the power plant is actually buried and the lakes used for intake and out take of water is sold for lake front property and is some of the best fishing around."

I know someone who lives by one of these lakes in NC. They give all the local residents pills to take in the case of a meltdown. My friend and his wife joke about it but you can tell it is the back of their mind. I think the pills might be a fast acting poison.

What do you think will happen when you burn your food and not eat it.

Good grief, some innocent indicated that the Republicans support the biofuel industry as did the Democrats, but that the Democrats have learned that it is in the corporate interest, and the insinuation is that the Democrats will abandon their farmer constituents, and lobbyist contributors.

I need to chortle when someone finds virtue in a politician. If you investigate their positions, you will find them universally, okay there may be an exception or two, self-seeking and self-aggrandizing regardless of partly label. The successful politician takes positions that will increase the probability of his re-election considering his contituency.

Most of these politicians have private agendas, and all of the rest of their actions are posturing.

There are more people than the Earth can sustain. Many will live on the margin. Others will perish.

Let's advance our own interests and maintain our standard of living. Where there is competition for resources, and there is a shortage of rexources such as commodities, food, and water, there will ultimately be strife. Let's insure that we get ours and keep it. There isn't enough to go around.

The Chinese are being particularly provident, tying up sources of supply, slowly but it is a constant and cumulative effort.

We'd do well to dismount from our cultural high-horse, and abandon the "selling of democracy" except where it confers an advantage on us. We need to be pragmatic and remember who God helps, those who "help themselves." We should abandon our pretense at being the world's savior, and raising eveyone's standard of living, and intervening to cure AIDS, and providing seed, and accepting economic refugees who burden us, and whatever. We should relinquish "the white man's burden." It's not only unappreciated, it's counter-productive. We should be unashamed in advancing our own interests.

Let the Devil take the hindmost. If we keep trying to assist the hindmost, we'll end up there with them.

Posted by Sully at 2008-06-26 11:10 AM

I think the pills might be a fast acting poison.

ZOT:
I'm on the case. Just had a Whopper and doubled up on the onion rings. God Bless America!!

SALARYMAN:
AMEN!!

TIMBCI:
E85 and Biodiesel are only part of the solution. Give me nuclear power too. Let's separate some H's from the O's and really give our cars a tiger in the tank.

Bullshit !!1

OPEC Entered The The Food Futures Market This Year, Hmmm I Wonder Why ? The Commodities Market Control Food Not Farmers !

Oh By The Way Sugurcane Has 5 Times The Energy Output Of Corn But Florida Brought Land From A Sugarcane Company Not To Grow Sugarcane While There Gov Wants To Drill Of Florida's Coast !

Why Does Brazil Only Use 1% Of There Farm Land Yet They Export Ethanol Things That Make You Say Hmmmmm.

PLEASE READ:

BIO-FUEL