one of the most powerful couples in politics isn't history just because of one fall.

these are two powerful people who are still very much in the thick of things regardless of this year's election.

chillary will be given an important post in this administration should obama win... perhaps even a supreme court seat. is that 'toast'?
even if mccain wins, chillary will be in the public eye as she has years to go in new york... she'll be around for as long as she wants to be.

out of sight is not necessarily out of mind in politics.

all the best.

Ozark -- Great link -- interesting analysis. Unfortunately, the GOPs have won the claim on the electorate's more middle-of-the-road voters time and again. And if the DEMs stray too far from the center, they will lose a lot more elections. This cycle may prove the analogy of the post break-up mate rather than a real shift in the political leanings of the voters. If Obama wins in November, if he disses the centrist voters too much, he will be a one-termer. If he disses the centrists before November, he'll be a flash-in-the-pan, has-been candidate by December.

"That's true in policy -- where the Clintons started pushing against the party's more liberal left wing on issues in the early 1990s, when Bill Clinton pushed for welfare reform and free trade, for example.

She ran this year, first as a pro-military hawk, criticizing Obama's vow to meet with foreign dictators and his proposal to raise Social Security taxes on those who make more than $100,000 a year."

What's amazing is the fact that people who normally consider themselves "progressives" or "liberals" supported her at all this year. Did her supporters really think she would be any more progressive than her husband? Did they think her vote on the Iran bill didn't reflect her true, imperialistic views?

"And if the DEMs stray too far from the center, they will lose a lot more elections."

The Dems haven't strayed too far from the center at all, the Republicans have drifted way off to the right but they also have the corporate media to help elect their people. If you had a really fair media in this country no Republican would ever be elected again. Come on, look at the immense debt they have created, the wars they have created, the poverty, the unemployment, etc.
The only thing recent history teaches us is that Americans are easily swayed by right wing liars.
Hey, why didn't Obama have his flag pin on????
OMG!!!

Please, America, no more Bushit or Clintscum.

We can do better than that.

I hope.

Danni,
Good post. I am still amazed that anyone ever tries to defend this administration for anything they've done. I mean, how many screw ups are enuff for the right to finally admit this has been a total cluster for the past 7.5 years?

Danni, I concur with "The Dems haven't strayed too far from the center at all, the Republicans have drifted way off to the right but they also have the corporate media to help elect their people." They have a LOT of money behind some very extreme causes. And their think-tank extremists should have made a LOT of money over the past 7 years, the way the Treasury was opened up to no-bid contracts, unessential corporate welfare, and black-box recipients with little or no oversight. Then of course there's the umpteen how many of billions of dollars unaccounted for in Iraq and elsewhere.

If they were smart, the coffers are filled to use that money electing another arch-conservative friend of the arch-conservative plutocracy.

The Clinton era ended when BushII stole the election. Shrub has repaid us with $4/gallon gasoline, unsafe workplaces, increased pollution, falling wages under a falling dollar. If you compare the Stock Market, housing and gasoline prices, the economy is in the fucking tank, just like after BushI.

Shrub went to war with Clinton's Army, but Bill's terms are too far back to count anymore. His welfare policy, personal bank account and coverup of cocaine smuggling show him to be closer to the Bush's than most people understand. At least the Clintons took the pulse of the country and balanced the budget.

"If they were smart, the coffers are filled to use that money electing another arch-conservative friend of the arch-conservative plutocracy."

Periodically they declare a time out on the fleecing of America to allow the economy to recover a bit. If we are allowed to have a Dem for four or eight years it is just an econmy repairing break so that the next round of corporate theft can begin.
Remember the S & L Scandal, when Bush II was elected I remember telling people that we would have an even larger economic crisis at the end of his term. They are utterly predictable.

Danni,

How can you say that. The dems have not drifted to the left, he have made a sharp left turn. I think the gop has stared to drift a bit to the center.

I do not think it matters. Once the people see how ill-equiped obama is we will have anothe 8 years of republicans.

Nut,

What does the prez have to do with gas prices?NOTHING......

I don't think this will be the last of Hillary.

My gut tells me that whoever is elected in November will likely be a one term President. Our country faces many challenges, and unfortunately for our next President, dealing with them will not be politically expedient or popular.

If McCain is elected, the field will by wide open for the Democrats in 2012.

If Obama is elected, there is little chance that he'd be able to make any real progress in Iraq, and from what I've read we'd still have 50,000 troops in Iraq by 2012. I also have doubts that he'd have the political clout to make any real changes to economic, health care, or energy policies. He's running a campaign on change, and I just don't see him having the clout to work with Congress to get past the various institutional flaws. I think he sincerely wants to change how things are done in DC but unfortunately, in doing so he could very easily alienate himself with the public and his own party (akin to Kennedy vs. Carter).

I'd really like to see a successful Obama Presidency but I feel like there are just too many historical parallels to the Carter administration. They both ran grass root campaigns against established party candidates, they're both party outsiders who want to bring ethics to Washington, and they both are essentially in response to corrupt administrations (Nixon & Bush). Obama is running a campaign on change and if change doesn't come, he'll be toast.

Unless Obama has a modern equivalent to Hubert Humphrey as VP (if one exists) to reign in Congress, there will be a lot of infighting with his own party. I suspect he'll also pick former high ranking brass for VP, which may help him get elected but not necessarily help in his presidency.

Well, that's my crystal ball :-)

I should also add, that by the 2012 election the electoral college distribution will change based on the 2010 census. It'll be very hard for a Democrat to win based entirely on the northeast and west coast.

This is why she gets away with saying her gender is what stopped her -- remarks like up top, with the word whore. This is ridiculous, that in the 21st century, we still insult women by calling them whores.

"How can you say that. The dems have not drifted to the left, he have made a sharp left turn."

Yeah right, the Dems wanting to balance the budget after years of Republican borrown and spend is a hard left turn....riiiiight. The Republican party has taken us to some bizarre political place where responsibility isn't even a consideration. Look at the deficit, look at the value of the dollar...it is directly a result of Republican irresponsible fiscal policies.

"If McCain is elected, the field will by wide open for the Democrats in 2012."

If McCAin is elected this country will be bankrupt before 2012, we will not even be able to buy the fuel for our military. REmember the Soviet Union's Navy tied up to the docks rusting away????
Americans think we are immune but we can only borrow and spend so long before we run out of credit and we are rapidly approaching that place.

"This is ridiculous, that in the 21st century, we still insult women by calling them whores."

In politics men get called whores just as much as do women. If she is that sensitive she has no business in the rough and tumble of American presidential politics.

If obama is elected it will be carter all over again.

Better than another Bush.

Also, your premise is faulty. But what else is new?

If obama is elected it will be carter all over again.

Posted by 08r4ever

Not that opinion is biased or worth more than piss running down your leg..

The Clinton brand of politics -- an often ad hoc mix of triangulation and confrontation that Obama criticized as too combative and out-of-date for a new era -- lost its luster in the party."


In other words she couldn't blame it on the evil, vast rightwing conspiracy? That her policies and unfavorable ratings stunk? You got to love it from a repub angle.

She will not wait until 2016 if the Boy Wonder wins. It wouldn't surprise me if she and Bill slowly split the dems and do a little sabatoge on their new buddy.

"Not that opinion is biased or worth more than piss running down your leg.."

Well put.

"Floppy proponents claim he's progressive, know nothing about him."

Hillary is not Bill and Barrack is not Hillary or Bill. George Bush is a Republican but he isn't anything like George Bush 1.
These idiotic types of comparisns are meaningless.

Have the chances of Bill and Hill splitting up increased or decreased?

That would be one part of the end of the "Clinton era"

Don't know if its over. Possibly for Hill as prez, but unless she screws this election over, Chelsea may have a shot down the road a piece.
I think Dubya has toasted a Bush's chance for the next 100 years. It'd be hard to run as a relative of a failed President. That's why Poppy was crying when he talked about Jeb.

I kind of almost get the feeling that the GOP is running a half-hearted effort for McCain.

I think they know their odds are slim this year and I don't think McCain is liked very much among Republicans...

but he's been this pain in the ass for years now, so why not give him his shot when he most likely won't win? He'd never run again, that's for sure.

"Nut,

What does the prez have to do with gas prices?NOTHING......

Posted by 08r4ever at 2008-06-09 10:28 AM"

Naive Flag. (Newsflash: starting a war in a formerly oil-producing country is one place to look, idiot.)

08r4ever,

Well even if he is Cheney's puppet his job title still leaves Shrub responsible. Cheney set in motion energy policies with the intent to raise the price of energy. Cheney clearly and publically stated this objective in August 2000. He implemented that plan in secret meetings with Ken Lay and other major industry players from the oil companies. Besides suspending fuel efficiency standards, they provided tax credits for heavy vehicles, like Hummers. Invading Iraq and constantly threatening Iran has had a horrendous effect on gas prices. These are just obvious things. Who knows what chicanery they plotted in secret.

katieberry at 2008-06-09 10:28 AM -- Astute analysis. The demographics are shifting away from teh liberal states toward the South and Western states. Will the population shift take with it the Northeastern and West Coast intellectual and cultural values? Probably not enough to change the Electoral College balance toward red states over blue states.

The Clinton era is over. The Bush era is over. Get over it, America!

Nice talk from Dems.

If the CLinton ere ais over who is currently the elected official that represents the state of NY in the US Senate???? Just asking.

If Hiltlery, Osama Obama, or the shoe salesman cared about their constituents they would have resigned before they ran for the presidency.

"It's been a long, long time comin'
But I know a change is gonna come."
Sam Cooke

Doubt it buy'

Obama is pulling the party to the extreme left.

He is going to lose in November and Hillary will run again in 2012.

Like all losers in the Dem Party that lose the election--Obama will be out for the next run.

It IS interesting how quickly the "Gore Era" and the "Kerry Era" dissipated into the, "Anyone But Gore or Kerry Era" after they, like 8 or the last 11 Dem candidates, lost.

Irrelevant flag.

TWO TERM LIMITS ON ALL POLITICIANS=NO ERA!
(this especially applies to trash like the clintons)

"'Not that opinion is biased or worth more than piss running down your leg..'

Well put."

Note to self:

Scratch Danni for the editor's job.

Is the Clinton Era Over?


one can only hope and pray

Thank the lawd that the Bush era certainly is. Jeb wouldn't be able to get elected dog-catcher after this fiasco. And the "little brown ones".....no way. I don't think Chelsea will want to be an elected official - of course it's too early to be sure, but I doubt she'd want more of this. As for the QuackCorkSeatonBeggarFish era, well, it's hard to say something is over when it never really began.

"Lawdy, Lawdy Miz Butterworth!! Po' some syrup up in there, Honeychil', or I'll bruise right up!" - Aunt Jomama

The Clinton Era never got started.

Bill Clinton was the greatest President of the last fifty years. Hopefully Obama will prove to be a worthy Democratic successor.

VOTE OBAMA '08!

Oh, come ON people! Who hasn't thought to themselves "Hillary will lobby for the Veep slot and then hire a hillbilly white supremacist to whack Obama so she can assume the throne." End of the Clintons? Not hardly!!

I guess I would just like to say, Hillary is no Bill Clinton and never will be. If she she was, she would have listened to her husband instead of taking many of the positions she did: The war, the running under cover for fire, trying to take credit for accomplishments under her husbands administration and then refusing to release the documents-maybe that's politics, but it is also lying. She lost because she could not lead like her husband