Fredo: I think you could round out the top ten by looking at Dubya's record. But yeah, suing OPEC is pretty stupid. Last time we pissed saudistan off, they 9-11'd us.

FF for Rob!

Fredo: I think you could round out the top ten by looking at Dubya's record. But yeah, suing OPEC is pretty stupid. Last time we pissed saudistan off, they 9-11'd us.

Posted by northguy3


Well there, sweetie pants, I don't give a SHIT WHO we piss off, (and that includes your buddies the French, BTW)
My point was - this assinine Congress can find nothing do do except file irrelvant lawsuits against foreign entities and these legal actions are non compulsory.
Pelosi should just admit this is the worst, grandstanding do- nothing Congress in the history of our country, and she should also admit that this was her whole concept from the beginning, to simply posture and pander and try to fool the "useful idiots" living in the ghettos and/or the Starbucks....and not really face issues and attack them with real sollutions. WELL good for you fucks. You got your DEM Congress. what a joke. 18% approval at last check......

"Hitler turns north to invade Russia during winter"

Germany invaded the USSR on 22 June, 1941.

Shhhhh, don't confuse the right with facts.

You got your DEM Congress. what a joke.

They'll have a majority next January.

Fredo: Given the fact that the Dems are gonna pick up a lot more seats in November, I'd say the 18% is courtesy of the elected GOPpers who still think Bush isn't a complete fuckup and back him. And even they are starting to sweat.

Hey Zatiochi,

you are a master of minutia...while I could have posted "Hitler stupidly miscalculated and attacked Russia perhaps underequipped as winter approached", I was instead brief for the purpose of clarity.

Any fuckstick knows he attacked at a time when winter would soon be upon him, and this led to the downfall of the German army. tool.

Wiki:
During WWII the only cold winter was in 1941-1942, and the Wehrmacht lacked necessary supplies, such as winter uniforms, due to the many delays in the German army's movements. Hitler's plans also miscarried before the onset of severe winter weather: he was so confident of a lightning victory that he did not prepare for even the possibility of winter warfare in Russia. Yet his eastern army suffered more than 734,000 casualties (about 23 percent of its average strength of 3,200,000 troops) during the first five months of the invasion, and on 27 November 1941, General Eduard Wagner, the Quartermaster General of the German Army, reported that "We are at the end of our resources in both personnel and materiel. We are about to be confronted with the dangers of deep winter."

The Nazi Army did not roll the way USA Army and USMC do- perhaps that is what confused you and you thought that if the Nazis attacked Rusia in June, everything would be decided by July. freak.

So my point is correct, he went north and his attack ended up occuring during the winter exactly as I wrote it.

Kinda like a "Slam Dunk" Fredo?

Hey - but enough about me being smarter than you.

how bout this whole Obama domestic abuse thing?
I mean given the fact that minority males beat their wives regularly.....

could one postulate that the whole OBAMA: "LAY OFF MY WIFE" thing is a set up... an excuse so that she can dissappear from the public eye for a while? I mean, she is going to be fairly severely bruised, maybe even broken bones or 3rd degree burns and such...after the secret" I hate whitey" video comes out.
You think Obama gonna let that shit go without whippin her ass?

"I was instead brief for the purpose of clarity"

No, you were wrong, got caught, and tried to pretend what you posted wasn't really what you meant.

But the backpedaling, goalpost-moving, and twisted rationales are fun to watch...keep it up.

"You think Obama gonna let that shit go without whippin her ass?"

And Republicans are puzzled as to why they don't get the African-American vote.

Fredo's "Mission Accomplished."?

But Hitler's ineptitude in Russia reminds one of a certain deciderer-in-chief who decidered that the Iraq war was gonna be short, cheap and didn't require hardly any troops, what with us being greeted as liberators and all...

Kinda like a "Slam Dunk" Fredo?

Posted by itsme


Hey listen young man, if those Moslem fruitcakes wanna run around chopping eachother's heads off, that ain't really our problem.
we did, in fact, roll thru Iraq in a matter of days and wipe out the regime. mission acomplished.

It actually IS time to pull out of there, let em cleanse eachother for a while.

"in fact, roll thru Iraq in a matter of days and wipe out the regime. mission acomplished(sic)."

Some idiotic posts defy comment.

OK shitheads wanna argue semantics, let's argue semantics:

what Fredo wrote:
"Hitler turns north to invade Russia during winter"

This is correct- the invasion occurred during the winter.

WHAT ASSHOILES LIKE danforth and zatiochi want to PRETEND I wrote
Hitler turns north in the winter to invade Russia

"Leaning tower of Pisa"

Yeah...a tower that beautiful could've made Pisa famous...if only it didn't lean.

yeah about this michelle Obama video, cant wait to see it. it is difficult to believe that with her written racists remark, her shame of her nation, his racists books, that their isnt some great video of barak and michelle hatin' on whitey at trinity.

is obama as popular as he seems? i just dont get his popularity with all that has come out about him.

*** Stupidity Hall of Fame ****

...
#4. Fredo saying something easily falsifiable, being politely corrected, then repeating said fallacy as truth whilst KNOWING he is wrong.

We are about to be confronted with the dangers of deep winter." That is "five months after" the attack began. You read that bold part? "About to be", as in, not yet but soon, five months after the invasion.....

Read your own links, fuckwit. Better yet, get someone else to read them and explain 'em to you.

And Republicans are puzzled as to why they don't get the African-American vote.

Posted by Danforth


Listen Quayle fan, I ain't running for office so it doesn't matter what I say.

I stepped down rather than run for reelection to the post I hele for 20 years thanks.

So Fredo is saying that we should "Cut and Run".

wow the love, tolerance and acceptance in here is amazing

hele?

typing fast, itsme. use your fucking head. you can't find anything else to attack me on?

on a different subject, i have the honor tonite to meet and assist a wounded warrior coming through charlotte, at the USO in our airport, on his way for burn treatment in SA. i will pass along the well wishes of his grateful citizens.

So Fredo is saying that we should "Cut and Run".

Posted by itsme

sorry missed that.

I am saying we should get the fuck out. do not tie me to Bush administration catch phrases. Racist.

In fact here is the whole perfect plan from another thread:

*** Israeli Source: Bush Will Attack Iran ***

Attacking anytime soon might be a bit hasty.

First you have to establish the emergence of a "post-Iran" region.

Simple.

Here what we have to do.

1. dissolve the Iraqi government

2. faciltiate the further geographic polarization of Sunni and Shia, so that all Sunni are further polarized into dwelling in the west of the country, and Shia are all dwelling in the east, next to brethren in Iran.

3. Annex the Kurdish section of the country, make it the 51st state, or whatever. Firmly establish that 51st state as our fortified base. It sits to the north of both the western Sunni section and the eastern Shiite section.

4. from our base, fully secure and militarize a border, running from the 51st state in a southern direction, cutting off the Sunni from the Shia.

5. intense bombing campaign of the eastern, or Shia section, of Iraq AND IRAN. scorched earth campaign.

6. keep the Sunni closed up in their western corner of Iraq , while US companies turn eastern Irag and all of Iran into the world's largest oil field.

This is not intended to be sarcastic and I think it could work

- posted by fredo_c

Sic'em Fredo.

I usually don't participate in the Nooner, but I got this in an email today and thought I would share it. You might have seen it already, but I got a good laugh out of it and actually think it is a fantastic idea:

George Carlin's Solution to Save Gasoline


Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use.....

The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants!

That would be 11 million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down.....

Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the Border....

When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand them a canteen, rifle, and some ammo and ship them to Iraq .
Tell them if they wants to come to America then they must serve a tour in the military....

Give them a soldier's pay while they are there and tax them on it.....

After their tour, they will be allowed to become a citizen since they defended this country.....

They will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot...

This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves.. ....

If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle, or ammo.....

Problem solved.

i will pass along the well wishes of his grateful citizens.

Posted by scooter28054


well if it matters to you, I am one of those citizens.

This is not intended to be sarcastic and I think it could work

That would be awesome. It'd finally show those goat fuckers who's boss.

Israel is an Appeasing Sissy! Bush has no alternative but to cut off funding and bomb Tel Aviv. Anything less would mean he's a gutless hypocrite, right GZ?

CAIRO, May 21 -- Syria and Israel announced Wednesday they had begun indirect peace talks through Turkish mediators, relaunching negotiations broken off in 2000.

"The two sides have begun indirect talks under Turkish auspices," Olmert's office said in a statement released Wednesday. "They have decided to conduct the dialogue in a serious and continuous manner with the aim of reaching a comprehensive peace."

Syria and Turkey confirmed the indirect talks in statements of their own minutes apart. Turkish officials said the discussions were taking place in Istanbul and would probably continue from month to month in rounds of a few days at a time.

While it isn't just Bush that wants us to cut down our gas usage, that is a minor issue. I could stand behind this plan 100%. I would add, take away the anchor baby clause and substitute military service as a path to citizen ship. If you die in service, you may name a friend or relative upon starting your service that may take the citizenship immediately in your place upon your death without them serving providing they pass security vetting.

Who else thinks this is a great idea?

Posted by moomanfl


This is just perfect!
This is the quintessential sad viewpoint of a myopic, ingrateful , unamerican liberal piece of shit.
This is the viewpoint a person who can only concieve of a young American being a member of our military as some sort of punishment. As if the only reason people are in the military is because they have no hope, no choice, they are TRAPPED in the military.

It is beyond disgusting - your lack of the concept of honor and duty to others that drives these young men and women into service.

Yeah, in that contemptible bastard George Carlin's world, the military is a punishment for suckers.

NG3,

You missed the most important part: Olmert has agreed to give back the Golan Heights as a prerequisite to the talks.

THAT is real appeasement, Rtards!!!

Oh but the liberals SUPPORT THE TROOPS, right?

They don't even have one iota of respect for the troops !!!!

I usually don't participate in the Nooner, but I got this in an email today and thought I would share it. You might have seen it already, but I got a good laugh out of it and actually think it is a fantastic idea:

George Carlin's Solution to Save Gasoline"


That alleged Carlin routine is fake, a hoax.

not in the region being discussed.

roger that Fredo

Fredo the hypocrit complains that Dems don't suppor the troops?

Check our the votes on the current GI Bill legislation. This bill would help the troops more than anything the Rtards have proposed in 8 years. Guess who opposes it? The fucking Rtards including Chimpy and McSame.

The asswipes like Fredo and his chicken-shit brigade of selfish greedy bastards wouln't help a US serviceman or vetran if thier lives depended on it.

Olmert has about 10 minutes left in his career

Fredo the hypocrit complains that Dems don't suppor the troops?

Check our the votes on the current GI Bill legislation. This bill would help the troops more than anything the Rtards have proposed in 8 years. Guess who opposes it? The fucking Rtards including Chimpy and McSame.

The asswipes like Fredo and his chicken-shit brigade of selfish greedy bastards wouln't help a US serviceman or vetran if thier lives depended on it.

Posted by axe

Sometimes a post comes along that is just so uninformed and stupid, you can only shake your head. words sometimes escape me -
so let me try to explain to you, poor shithead, what is at work. The DEMS attached completely unrelated issues to the bill, to try to get them rammed thru:
MAINLY: a path for illegals to get fast tracked to citizenship, AND misconcieved ethanol production requirements coupled with MORE wasteful farm subsidies.

SO, AS WARNED FROM THE BEGGINING....BUSH WILL, AND SHOULD, VETO this BILL if it gets thru to him, because the add ons are very stupid and dangerous and too big to let slip by > THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT the dems SHOULD NOT BE TRYING TO ATTACH THESE ITEMS TO a military funding BILL! just fuckin fund the troops and fight the other battles as a separate issue!!!!! asshole DEMS are killing this country HOLY FUCK OPEN YOUR EYES

That alleged Carlin routine is fake, a hoax.

Posted by nullifidian


So is your career in music

SO, AS WARNED FROM THE BEGGINING....BUSH WILL, AND SHOULD, VETO this BILL if it gets thru to him, because the add ons are very stupid and dangerous and too big to let slip by > THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT the dems SHOULD NOT BE TRYING TO ATTACH THESE ITEMS TO a military funding BILL! just fuckin fund the troops and fight the other battles as a separate issue!!!!! asshole DEMS are killing this country HOLY FUCK OPEN YOUR EYES

Posted by Fredo_C

I think they let this guy out a little early. They should make sure he takes the meds THEN release. Our Vet health care is slacking...

This is the quintessential sad viewpoint of a myopic, ingrateful , unamerican liberal piece of shit.

Somebody tell this sad pathetic fuck what side of the political isle I am on since he is obviously too stupid to understand it himself.

Hint: I am neither liberal, nor a democrat as pretty much everyone else that has been posting on this site for the past 4 years knows.

As for the above immigration plan degrading the value of service to the country via the military: what kind of drugs are you on again??? The whole point was that service in the military is much more admirable and worthy of respect than sneaking across the border, sucking up jobs, using our resources that they aren't entitled to, and not paying their fair share of taxes. On the contrary, military service is HIGHLY respectable and would earn the gratitude of the American people WHILE it also proves there worthiness to be called an American Citizen.

Here I was about to defend you a bit on your Hitler/Russia comments, but after this moronic rant by you I think I will let you fend for yourself. What a moronic fuckwit you are.

"CHILL"

yeah, you sound like a little liberal ingrateful punk. Even the name implies that you think you're just so fuckin cool and smart, huh?
So what is it about veterans? are they all in hospitals on medication? is that what you are saying?

That alleged Carlin routine is fake, a hoax.

I couldn't care less whether it is legitimate Carlin or not. I just care that I happen to agree with what it says and could support the plan.

Ron Paul got 15% of the Oregon GOPper vote. McSame couldn't pull more than 72% of the Kentucky GOP vote, in spite of no one else running.

Here I was about to defend you a bit on your Hitler/Russia comments, but after this moronic rant by you I think I will let you fend for yourself. What a moronic fuckwit you are.

Posted by moomanfl

my despair at missing your support is boundless.

I was referring to George Carlin, ass.

And while you are now persuing it, let me tell you that the military contains a lot of highly skilled, intelligent DEDICATED AND PRINCIPLED individuals. So you are as bad as some liberal punk ass who has no respect for these indivduals if you think it is equivalent to fill up the military with freakin Paco and Fernando from the mesa.
How would you like it if I said some completeley uneducated ass is just totally fine and adequate to do the job that YOU do, moomanfl. ( if you in fact HAVE a job, ya cunt)

"That alleged Carlin routine is fake, a hoax.

Posted by nullifidian


So is your career in music

Posted by Fredo_C "


What a goofy fucker.

"I couldn't care less whether it is legitimate Carlin or not."

I couldn't care less whether you couldn't care less.

I was correcting the false attribution.

Null, at least I gave your shit a look, once....

Actually, it's cool.

my despair at missing your support is boundless.

Agreed, you are too stupid to feel chagrin. Duly noted.

I was referring to George Carlin, ass.

Well, since you blasted what was said in the post I made (reposting his alleged words), and I happen to agree with those words, you were by proxy also referring to me. Get a clue moron.

And while you are now persuing it, let me tell you that the military contains a lot of highly skilled, intelligent DEDICATED AND PRINCIPLED individuals.

No shit, Sherlock. I tried to get into the Navy once, and the Marines twice. I was turned away by them because of hearing loss. However because of my advocation of the Marines, my brother joined and served 6 years. While being younger than me, he is my hero and the person I look up to and respect the most on this earth. I just wish I could have been with him in Iraq.

So you are as bad as some liberal punk ass who has no respect for these indivduals if you think it is equivalent to fill up the military with freakin Paco and Fernando from the mesa.

Are your white sheets in the wash or are you wearing them while you type?

How would you like it if I said some completeley uneducated ass is just totally fine and adequate to do the job that YOU do, moomanfl. ( if you in fact HAVE a job, ya cunt)

It is bad enough seeing a "completeley"(sic) uneducated ass posting under the name of "Fredo_C".

yeah, you sound like a little liberal ingrateful punk. Even the name implies that you think you're just so fuckin cool and smart, huh?
So what is it about veterans? are they all in hospitals on medication? is that what you are saying?

Posted by Fredo_C

;-)

How would you like it if I said some completeley uneducated ass is just totally fine and adequate to do the job that YOU do, moomanfl. ( if you in fact HAVE a job, ya cunt)

It is bad enough seeing a "completeley"(sic) uneducated ass posting under the name of "Fredo_C".

Posted by moomanfl

So then you do not deny you are unemployed?
hmmmmm.....thought so.



;-)

Posted by Chill


I guess this is your way of saying "yup!, uh huh!, all cwazee army guys are silly insane whackos"

;-)

Posted by Chill


I guess this is your way of saying "yup!, uh huh!, all cwazee army guys are silly insane whackos"

Posted by Fredo_C

;-)

So then you do not deny you are unemployed?

Not at all. It just isn't relevant. I drive tractor trailers for a living and do programming for fun not that it effects one way or the other what I think about the military. Only a moron would think that it IS relevant.

hmmmmm.....thought so.

It is pretty obvious that you don't think at all, but don't let me intrude on your delusions of intellectual capacity.

Fredo-o, thanking you for brighting up my day. Great posting! Take care.

;-)

I guess this is your way of saying "yup!, uh huh!, all cwazee army guys are silly insane whackos"

Lighten up, Francis.

Lighten up, Francis.

Posted by moomanfl


Funny Moom. This guy has a short fuse my God. His boyfriend wanted to take his turn as the catcher or something... Great for a laugh though!

my despair at missing your support is boundless.

Agreed, you are too stupid to feel chagrin. Duly noted.
incorrect, not only are emotions not directly tied to intelligence, I am A. intelligent, and B. not concerned particularly about you and your support

I was referring to George Carlin, ass.

Well, since you blasted what was said in the post I made (reposting his alleged words), and I happen to agree with those words, you were by proxy also referring to me. Get a clue moron.
incorrect again, i can think someone is an asshole , but yet still respect a different person that agrees with ONE of the assholes concepts. George Carlin has time and time again shown himself to me as an asshole. and up until now, you have not

And while you are now persuing it, let me tell you that the military contains a lot of highly skilled, intelligent DEDICATED AND PRINCIPLED individuals.

No shit, Sherlock. I tried to get into the Navy once, and the Marines twice. I was turned away by them because of hearing loss. However because of my advocation of the Marines, my brother joined and served 6 years. While being younger than me, he is my hero and the person I look up to and respect the most on this earth. I just wish I could have been with him in Iraq.
you sound like a loser. Sorry to hear that

So you are as bad as some liberal punk ass who has no respect for these indivduals if you think it is equivalent to fill up the military with freakin Paco and Fernando from the mesa.

Are your white sheets in the wash or are you wearing them while you type?
actually my vestings are red- it's a seniority thing

How would you like it if I said some completeley uneducated ass is just totally fine and adequate to do the job that YOU do, moomanfl. ( if you in fact HAVE a job, ya cunt)

It is bad enough seeing a "completeley"(sic) uneducated ass posting under the name of "Fredo_C".
this STILL doesnt really make sense

Fredo-o, thanking you for brighting up my day. Great posting! Take care.

;-)

Posted by Chill


You are welcome. have a nice day.
God bless and hope to see you again soon.

incorrect, not only are emotions not directly tied to intelligence

Partially correct. The excessive display of emotion such as your rant reflects is well known to cloud judgement (ie. the application and exercise of intelligence and reason).

I am A. intelligent

Need evidence of this since I haven't seen any evidence of this from you yet.

B. not concerned particularly about you and your support

You were definitely concerned enough to go on a rant. As for my support and your apathy: some people are just too stupid to understand that allies, even if they aren't felt to be useful at the moment, are a valuable thing to have. I guess you are a regular one man army that don't need no stinkin' backup. Good luck with that, moron.

incorrect again, i can think someone is an asshole , but yet still respect a different person that agrees with ONE of the assholes concepts.

True, however I saw no sign of this nuance.

George Carlin has time and time again shown himself to me as an asshole.

Granted. However, even assholes occasionally have a point.

you sound like a loser. Sorry to hear that

Suuure... an injury that keeps your from serving even though you have tried multiple times of your own free will to join makes you a loser... what a mental midget you are.

actually my vestings are red- it's a seniority thing

No surprise there.

this STILL doesnt really make sense

Again, no surprise. Try to get one of the neighborhood kids to explain it to you. Don't feel bad, sometimes we all need to get some instruction from a more intellectually capable person.

"Make Ethanol at home!

www.efuel100.com"

Posted by member2586

Is that shit for real?

I mean how can you pull that off without violating some tax code or something?

And isn't it basically a small moonshine maker?

Make Ethanol at home!

www.efuel100.com

Posted by member2586


FYI

Johns Hopkins Burn Center

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-05-21 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:LOLWorthy

"Make Ethanol at home!

www.efuel100.com"

Posted by member2586

Is that shit for real?

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2008-05-21 02:58 PM

I mean how can you pull that off without violating some tax code or something?

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2008-05-21 02:59 PM

Dunno, but even though I don't subscribe to the whole AGW bullshit, I do feel that we should be more conscientious of our environment because of the large LOCAL impact that it can have. Add that to the current oil problems, and this sounds like a great idea. Hell, even without environmental concerns, just the savings in fuel costs alone make this attractive.

I wouldn't rush out to get a pre-order now, but if after the 4th quarter this turns out to be a reality and not just "vaporware", you can bet I will be buying one.

TREES -

Good to see you back again! Is your other project all done now so you'll have
some time to come back and start blogging on DR again? Hope so.

"Hell, even without environmental concerns, just the savings in fuel costs alone make this attractive."
--MOOMANFL

Precisely!

"I wouldn't rush out to get a pre-order now, but if after the 4th quarter this turns out to be a reality and not just "vaporware", you can bet I will be buying one."
--MOOMANFL

My version of rushing out to buy something that expensive would be sometime around 2010, maybe...

Chris!

One project morphs into another...it never ends.

However, I have given up on getting anything meaningful done today so I thought I'd wander on over and see what you lunatics were up to.

I've been very entertained. :)

I'm gonna try to get back into the swing....things are going to be mighty "interesting" as we move toward November.

Hours and hours of entertainment await.

How have you been Chris?

That just made my day, Rob.

Thank you.

Posted by TreesGoneWild


It can't be said enough how funny I am.

It can't be said enough how funny I am.

Yeah, but cheer up. Looks aren't everything, Rob. :-)

BTW... you got a laugh out of me with that one too, even though I think the ethanol thing is a good idea.

It can't be said enough how funny I am.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-05-21 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Legal question:

Last month I was visiting my son and his wife in Killeen TX. Both of them, as well as one of their friends, ran errands in my truck that weekend. (it was easier than do the vehicle shuffle in the driveway) One of them ran a red light and got caught on camera. I got a ticket in the mail and an order to pay a $75 fine.

Am I liable for this if it wasn't I who ran the red light?

"Am I liable for this if it wasn't I who ran the red light?

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-21 06:25 PM"

No. (Not in Oregon anyway.) However, they may still try to prosecute you for it. Is it clear from the pic that you are not the driver? Are you willing to throw the actual driver under the bus? (Perhaps a better question is, are they willing to take responsibility for their actions?)

If someone ran a light in my truck they'd damn sure pay the ticket - camera or no. Otherwise points will be on your license Goat.

Ditto on what Monte said. It was your vehicle that ran the red light, so unless the guilty party is willing to own up to the deed you will end up being "assumed" to be the guilty party. Don't know the law in TX, but if you fail to show up for the court date etc., etc., they can suspend your license. (Here in NC that is). Think about it. You can pay the fine and costs (whatever that is) or drag your family member into court with you who will then be required to pay the fine and costs (which they will probably ask Dad for *LOL*) so you are between a rock and a hard place. If it were me, I would hire an attorney and get it reduced to a non-moving violation, that way there won't be points on your (or the offenders) license.

Is it clear from the pic that you are not the driver?

No. The picture shows only the back license plate and an inset of the light (it was indeed red) with some computer data I presume tells the status of the light and location, though it is indecipherable to the layman.

Brit: I thought that according to our constitution I had the right to face my accuser. Is the accuser the camera? The person who runs the camera? Either way, neither can positively ID me as the person who ran the light.

BTW, I don't know who ran it. I know of three people other than me who drove my truck that weekend. The ticket tells the time and location, but I don't remember who drove it at 5:41 PM.

I would hire an attorney and get it reduced to a non-moving violation

That's a racket. People who run lights should have points on their license, and increased insurance premiums.

Safe drivers should be rewarded and bad drivers punished.

Think about it. You can pay the fine and costs (whatever that is) or drag your family member into court with you who will then be required to pay the fine and costs

Aren't there 5th ammendment issues at stake here? Let's say I take my son into court and he admits that he drove my truck that day, but takes the 5th ammendment on whether he ran the red light or not. He cannot be forced to testify against himself. I wonder if that would get me off the hook and keep my son from becoming the responsible party.

No, Goat, not realistically anyway. The prosecutor does not need your son's admission in order to prosecute him, the same way that s/he would not need your admission in order to prosecute you (if you were the one who was driving). People who take the 5th get prosecuted every day.

I agree with Ozark. Plus, if the goal is simply getting the fine reduced for showing up and shedding a few crocodile tears, paying an attorney is not necessary.

Goat - if you care to fight this, you can. There are attorneys who specialize in that kind of case. hire one. Pay him or her $500. You'll probably win. Woo hoo!

I wonder if that would get me off the hook and keep my son from becoming the responsible party.

If he'd had an accident then it would be your insurance that would be charged because you are responsible for your vehicle regardless of who is driving. If you think some traffic judge is going to play games with the 5th Amendment you're sadly mistaken.

Most of them in St Louis County - 100+ municipalities and everyone has a traffic court - are often paid on a percentage basis. Half of them are pettifoggers who need some extra coin for their mistress. Everyone is guilty.

Pay the ticket, eat the points. Next time you won't be loaning out your vehicle. LOL

Legal question:

Last month I was visiting my son and his wife in Killeen TX. Both of them, as well as one of their friends, ran errands in my truck that weekend. (it was easier than do the vehicle shuffle in the driveway) One of them ran a red light and got caught on camera. I got a ticket in the mail and an order to pay a $75 fine.

Am I liable for this if it wasn't I who ran the red light?


Yup you're the registered owner. I got hit with one a few years ago and asked the same questions. Be thankful there are no points involved.

Y'all're probably right. I'm gonna get stuck with the fine. Needless to say I'm not going to spend $500 on a lawyer and if my son had to pay, he'd "borrow" the money from me. *grin*

Fortunately I've had only two moving traffic violations in my life and the last one was over 15 years ago, so I'm not too worried about points on my license or my insurance premiums going up.

Using the "you are the owner" arguement, could I be prosecuted if someone used my gun to commit a felony? The car owner thing is kind of a scary precedent.

Why not have the family member own up to being the driver--they can get the ticket reduced, usually suspend the fine for whatever time?

It won't affect their record if they go to driving school to reduce the ticket.

You could do the same hassle too..

We have these cameras all over CA--But they have them taking the photo of the driver along with the light and license plate. They have tried to fight these in court and lost. They used the same argument with facing the accuser--courts did not buy it.

It is real apparent when you see this happen too--lights going off--they ran the late yellow and got caught.


They want someone to pay the fine--either you or your family member..

Murphy

I learned the hard way that under Missouri law you are responsible for your vehicle.

Personally I think this deserves its own thread.

You could go to court and try to plea down, get a suspended sentence, probation. You'll still pay the fine and costs.

The car owner thing is kind of a scary precedent.
~Goat


Indeed, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe if you lend your porsche to a friend who get busted with His drugs in your car you can lose your wheels.

Why not have the family member own up to being the driver--they can get the ticket reduced, usually suspend the fine for whatever time?

I'm not sure who the driver was. THree people other me used the truck that weekend. I'm sure the one who ran the light knows who they were, but I'll bet they all deny it if I bother to ask.

What a nice family you have, Goat. You must be so proud.

What a nice family you have, Goat. You must be so proud.

Yes, I am.

Interesting question Goat.

I let one of my friends borrow my car for a munchies run when we were both a little drunk. Had he gotten in a wreck or pulled for DUI, I don't think I would have been the one responsible. Seems like a weird double standard.

"Yes, I am.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-21 07:42 PM"

Happy to borrow your car, but will lie to you about whether they ran a red light. Republicans, I presume?

Happy to borrow your car, but will lie to you about whether they ran a red light. Republicans, I presume?

Son is moderate, daughter in law very, very liberal, the friend of theirs who also drove it that day -- I have no idea. I never thought to ask political affiliation of a person who wants to borrow my car.

Unless you report your car as stolen, the law assumes you gave permission for your car to be driven (by whomever is behind the wheel) along access to the carkeys.

IF you insist on paying the ticket and IF you do not want to say to the cops who did the driving (if you even know) then I would take a couple additional steps to cover my butt.

I would send in the check to the authorities for the amount owed but I would then also draft a letter to the Traffic Court (return receipt requested) saying something to the effect that:

"I am the registered owner and my car was not stolen on the date/time of this traffic violation. However, there was a group of young adults at the residence where my car was parked and one of them used my truck although I do not know the identity of the particular driver. Although I am willing to pay the fine for the traffic violation committed while the truck registered to me was being driven, let the court's record reflect that I, Goatman, was not the driver nor was I a passenger in my vehicle at the time of this violation."

Here is a scenario where you, as the registered owner, could get in real trouble for loaning out your car.

Say you just write a check for this ticket of a photo of your car used on that date/time without any letter to the court denying you were even in the car nor the driver. You have then acknowledged full responsibility. BUT let's take this scenario a step further. Let's say these kids were all partying and drinking that day -- maybe some underage. A few minutes later on that same highway ANOTHER video photo camera catches this car registered to you involved again but this time it's in a hit and run/DUI incident. It won't take the cops long to put two and two together to figure it was the same car, same registered owner (you) and you would be charged for both violations -- one way more serious than running a red light because you did not tell the court it was not you behind the wheel.

Pay for the ticket if you want, tell the court you are not sure who might have driven it so you cannot name anyone who might have been the driver, BUT get it on record even by a simple letter that the court knows it was NOT you behind the wheel.

Not to make a real big deal out of this but if you allow your truck to be driven YOU are the one responsible for what happens while it's on the road and God help you if it happens to be some underage kid making a beer run who gets into an accident. By allowing your keys and car to be used on the highway the law considers you culpable and/or at least an accessory.

Maybe I've got this wrong. Some of the lawyer types on here can tell you better than I can if this is correct but I would definitely want it on the court's record that although I'm paying the fine and admit it was my truck, I was NOT the one behind the wheel.

ps -- I don't know how serious Texas is about DUI's but in California a couple of them can make your life hell and the State can take away your driver's license and in some cases even your car. You really want to be careful who you let use your car if there happened to be any partying and alcohol involved.

Texas had no problem with drinking and driving (so long as not drunk) until the Feds greenmailed them into changing their law. Fucking Feds.

Texas had no problem with drinking and driving (so long as not drunk) until the Feds greenmailed them into changing their law. Fucking Feds.

Seldom do you make sense, mcore, but you get credit for this moment of lucidity you allowed to pass your fingertips, to your keyboard, out of your computer to be modulated and transmitted through cyberspace for all to see.

Anyone here a runner with kids? How big do they have to be before you can throw a kid in one of those jogging strollers?

I only run if the mother of the kid is looking for me -- in which case, I ain't worried about jogging strollers!

How big do they have to be before you can throw a kid in one of those jogging strollers?

Jogging stroller? What are you, some kind of pansy?

Make that kid RUN.

Anybody following the Hagee stuff?

It's going to get interesting.

It can't be said enough how funny I am.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-05-21 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag:


Yeah, I saw the ad you took out in the NYT, good thing too because I had almost forgotten.

Thanks for the reminder!

Posted by TreesGoneWild at 2008-05-21 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

RCADE took that ad out....we told him the checks he sends us aren't quite enough. So he jumped to our request in praise of Rob, WisGod, Ride_on......

.....and don't be hatin'......

Anyone here a runner with kids? How big do they have to be before you can throw a kid in one of those jogging strollers?

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-05-21 08:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Throw him in the jogger from conception on....it's all good.

How big do they have to be before you can throw a kid in one of those jogging strollers?

Jogging stroller? What are you, some kind of pansy?

Make that kid RUN.


Posted by ness_gadol at 2008-05-21 09:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Run, run from that Ness G(awd)ol coat hanger.....