Can't be, why the level of care these guys are getting with the VA has never been better!

ARMY OF NONE

ARMY OF NONE

My grandfather commited suicide and he wasn't even in the army. Is that weird or what?

Five of those suicides occurred in Texas,

the things the left will do just to embarrass the President.

Are they included in the 1,200 a month in Iraq?

Are they included in the 1,200 a month in Iraq?

Posted by shirtsbyeric


May as well throw in the 650 a day in China while you're at it. It makes just as much sense as what you said.

They may feel guilty about lying to kids who then got killed, but most likely they're combat vets with PTSD. It's a rotten life in any case, but the Bush damage to the armed forces surely is as serious as his damage to the country, the environment, the economy and the world. herm

They may feel guilty about lying to kids who then got killed, but most likely they're combat vets with PTSD.

Or it could be that he had just gotten married that morning, had a big fight with his wife because he thought she wasn't paying him enough attention. She said the marriage was a mistake. He killed himself a couple of hours later.

Nah, that couldn't have been it. He was in the army, so that has to be the blame for his every ailment, including his hemmoroids and acne and inability to match his socks.

You can play the "what if" games, Goatman, but the statistics don't lie. Nor do the VA's own numbers, 1000 a month, under their care, attempt suicide. Far greater than the general public, no matter how many "bad marriages" are the cause.

He killed himself a couple of hours later

Pussy.

PTSD has been known to ruin many a marriage so even that comes back to the same place.

YAV....YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT...YOU ARE CLUELESS...the VA has nothing to do with ACTIVE duty or reserve military... medical problems

and it looks like he was taking Anti-Depressants(probably given to him by his BAS)and drinking....not a good idea

the thing is PTSD....is present in every war we fight.....not just Iraq.....you will see sucides related to PTSD

to turn this into a political statement is just plain stupid

You can play the "what if" games, Goatman, but the statistics don't lie. Nor do the VA's own numbers, 1000 a month, under their care, attempt suicide. Far greater than the general public, no matter how many "bad marriages" are the cause

If you've got stats that show a newlywed having a fight, admission that the marriage was a mistake, wife partying without husband same day as wedding has the same as national average suicide rate, fine, I'll play.

But you et al are playing what if games just as well as I am. What level of expertise says that my what ifs are less valid than yours? What makes you think that the army as a group has a higher suicide rate than the group that fits the fucked up parameters above? I know it is chic to blame the ills of the earth on the army, Bush, and republicans -- especially on a liberal blog -- but it does one good once in a while and consider everything, not only the guy's profession.

As far as substandard mental health care in the VA -- yeah, I'm sure there is truth to that. Let's allow the entire country's health care systme to be government run!

and it looks like he was taking Anti-Depressants(probably given to him by his BAS)

Actually, I don't think he was even taking them yet if I read the article correctly. It said he had a prescription written that day with him. So the guy, who obviously already had issues, had to deal with the newlywed wifey thingy without the benefit of medicine that may have helped.

(BTW, where did he get the medicine? VA perhaps? Those bastards. They should've forced it down his throat before he left that day! VA's fault!)

GOt the rates for a group that involves a marriage that fails within its first hours, YAV? Or do not really want to consider all the factors involved?

My grandfather was a veteran. As a doctor, I'm sure he saw some fucked up shit. Doctors, as a profession also have one of the highest suicide rates. He was also a substance abuseer. Let's see, what shall we blame his suicide on? Since this thread is an army/VA hate-fest, there is no need at all to consider his profession or lifestyle choices. We'll automatically blame the army on his suicide without considering anything else.

GOATMAN....YOUR WRONG...Active duty military gets their medical treatment from the military....NOT THE VA

TO ALL THE HAVE NO CLUE

ALL ACTIVE DUTY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES GET THEIR MEDICAL TREATMENT FROM THE MILITARY......NOT THE VA


SO STOP BLAMING THE VA...BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

Now you've done it, Goatman. You better make nice with Judas.

I'm going to find supper. The floor is yours!

I'm to my sister's house for tortilla soup myself in a few minutes.

Some people can lie to their hearts content and some feel guilty. People comfortable with lying become salesman, a group which includes clergy and politicians.

If you are in the Army and you have a psychological (mental) problem they have staff which can diagnose and discharge you. They are not in a position to "cure" any soldiers. They will provide some moral support for spouses but that's about it.

Suicides leave so much hurt for the family and friends they leave behind.

I want to say "Happy Birthday" today, Keith.
I miss you.

Some active duty soldiers do get their care from the VA. Recruiters, and soldiers assigned to the National Guard or Reserve are often 100's of miles from an army post so they will go to the VA. Another group are the ROTC instructors.
PTSD is a very tough disorder to treat, whether in the VA for combat trauma or the local women's shelter for rape or abuse. Treatment is resource intensive and not very effective.
PAX

He was in the army, so that has to be the blame for his every ailment, including his hemmoroids and acne and inability to match his socks.

Posted by goatman


It's too bad that every soldier cannot be as macho as you, so as to not be effected psychologically by seeing people ripped to shreds by war.

Maybe you should take up a new career with the DOD teaching soldiers how to suck it up and not be the pussies that you claim them to be.

Our son Bob called yesterday (BTW, he's flying home over Memorial Weekend - they have four days off)... and a Marine blew his brains out one floor above where Bob was doing laundry recently. Did it on a Friday, no less. It was over a girl.

Holy Shit! That's more than died in combat! Bush's fault!

It is SO sad !

"(Suicide) Results 2005:

Male Rates
Veterans: 31.5 to 35.3 per 100,000
Non-Veterans: 17.6 per 100,000

Female Rates
Veterans: 11.1 to 12.3 per 100,000
Non-Veterans: 4.5 per 100,000"

Based on the above numbers, it is better to be a woman at war, than a man at peace. Sex change anyone??

Marty men COMPLETE suicide more often than woman because we prefer more direct methods like a shotgun or tall building than drugs or whining.

Marty men COMPLETE suicide more often than woman because we prefer more direct methods like a shotgun or tall building than drugs or whining.

I've never heard of a "suicide" where a woman was able to kill herself by whining.
Usually it's called "murder" 'cause some guy shot her to shut her up.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a thread like this brings out the assholes who don't bother to read the article and just spout the usual bullshit, though I also notice that some should know better..

From the piece, in quotes:

"As a recruiter stationed in River Oaks and Rosenberg, Andersson often worked six days a week, routinely got home after 11 p.m..."

60-70 hour weeks with one day off?

"Making matters worse, Andersson felt uncomfortable in the role of salesman for the Army. He was painfully honest with prospective recruits..."

Good soldier, bronze star, but he couldn't "sell" the deal. Guess they didn't cover that in jump school.

"His superiors repeatedly criticized him for failing to meet his goal of signing two new recruits a month and assigned him five-page essays or extra duty as punishment..."

Well there you go. Guy isn't cut out to be a recruiter but instead of transferring him they add extra duty.

"If recruiters failed to sign up enough prospects, their commanders told them they were failures, Rodriguez said. "They tell you, 'That's why your buddy in Iraq doesn't have a full battalion, because you're letting him down,' "he said."

Nothing like a pep talk to boost morale.

"...an officer took Andersson to Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio..."

So the VA is at fault? It is "government health care" but I think the failure here has more to do with the culture. And on that point, even the Democrats aren't talking about taking over the hospitals and doctors. More like an expansion of Medicare Part B where the patient pays a premium and a co-pay.

I used to do medical reviews for a VVA service officer, and read plenty of studies on PTSD. The guys most likely to come out of it have strong support from their families and friends, and early treatment. A stressful environment coupled with alcohol accentuates the problem. Marital problems, divorce, separation from children, a lack of understanding, all contribute.

The most pronounced effect is nightmares in which traumatic events are revisited, night after night. Fatigue sets in. Some have hallucinations. One vet told me that driving a stretch of highway he had to keep his eyes on the road because if he looked at the hills he often saw a line of soldiers marching through the trees.

Ironically it's the chickenhawks and armchair soldiers who address their own inadequacies and fears by calling these guys cowards and pussies.

"Andersson earned a Bronze Star with valor for saving the lives of two other soldiers during a firefight."

Sounds like a real trooper to me, and a true loss for our country.

My grandfather was a veteran. As a doctor, I'm sure he saw some fucked up shit. Doctors, as a profession also have one of the highest suicide rates. He was also a substance abuseer. Let's see, what shall we blame his suicide on? Since this thread is an army/VA hate-fest, there is no need at all to consider his profession or lifestyle choices. We'll automatically blame the army on his suicide without considering anything else.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-19 05:55 PM | Reply |

Dude your on a deflection fest... Yav throws the stats in your face, you keep dodging.. good stuff.

What do You expect KnightHawk?? Goaman is soo full of shit most of the time I don't know wh I even respond to Him. Mabe cause I am an idiot but who knows.

Larry Mohr

Yav throws the stats in your face, you keep dodging.. good stuff.

Yes he throws stats at me. They are good stuff. Ilove seeing them. But I like seeing ALL of them -- not just the ones that support the debater's side. What's wrong with hearing all the stats and not just one side of them?

Oh, I know. Knighthawk and Larry are afraid that their little version of the world would be upset.

Talk about deflection! WHy not answer my question, knighthawk? What do we blame my grandfather's suicide on? Larry, feel free to jump in since you think that one side of the story is all that needs to be told in order to come to a a valid conclusion.

As I said, since this is an anti-army thread, my grandfather obviously killed himself because of trauma he suffered in the army right? Just as we have absolutley no need to consider the sergeant's domestic and marriage problems, we have no need to consider my grandfather's substance abuse problem or his profession if we want to know why he offed himself. It HAS to be the military's fault.

How can people like you go through life ignoring all the facts when coming to a conclusion?

Mabe cause I am an idiot...Lennie MohrOn

Nothing like the retort within a retort.

What do we blame my grandfather's suicide on?

Was he active duty at the time?

Was he in combat? Was he afraid for his life because one of his patients tried to kill him? Was he ever diagnosed by a physician with a psychological disorder?

Did he know that his "substance abuse" had caused irreparable damage like Hemingway?

Or maybe like Ernie there was a hereditary factor?

You see, it's not a relevant question because we don't know much about Gramps, but we do know something about Sgt. Andersson. We know something about combat-related PTSD, and we know about the pressures put on him in a job that he was ill-suited to perform.

Apples and Oranges Goat. You should know better.

I'm pleased to see questions asked.

Is it possible the sergeant would've committed suicide had he never been in the service and confronted with the same failed relationship issues? I say yes, it is possible. The fact he was in the service does not automatically make them to blame for his suicide.