Soldier Used Koran for Target Practice

Not much different than what Dumbya has done to our Constitution.

Not much different...

Posted by ShotgunCheney

That's a completely different topic, and we don't have religious codes about how to treat the constitution.

Funny this douche g.i. figures out how to get sent home. Corporal Klinger must be spinning in his grave.

Freedom of Speech.... right?

Good grief! Now we pay obeisance to the Islamics by displaying special consideration for a collection of printed materials because ... Why? Considering the content of that trash if anyone wanted totake the trouble to respond it would be to demonstrate symbolic revulsion. Print the Koran on paper that can be used as toilet paper, and disposed of in sumps, cesspools, and the like.

Do we find it necessary to manipulate the beast that is Islam since if we don't, its practioners will throw a tantrum? Screw them.

What's step 2 in the surrender process?

I don't know, Johnson. What's the next step in the boor process? This behavior strikes me as akin to the Taliban blowing up statues of Buddha.

Yes, if we can't blow holes through someone's holy book we must be surrendering to someone.

I've met more than one person that defends beating their wife in terms of family values.

What's step 2 in the surrender process?

Posted by Johnson

The "tantrum" you speak of is killing more Americans.

But you're the one who supports the troops. I forgot.

I guess it's the "bring it on" strategy.

This cultural relativism has resulted in our "valuing" other beliefs too much.

Next step, understanding "honor killings" by Islamics in the U.S., and making killing of straying relatives, women of course, by "honorable" Islamics, "excusable homicide." You can walk Muhammed, because your Koran, Hadith, and whatever tells you what to do, and we honor your religious instructions more than our laws. We're understanding people.

Now we are not that circumspect with other religions. You can abase Christian and Hindu and Buddhist texts, but we exalt Islamic idiocy as if it has special value, and should be revered and honored.

Heck, for starters, Muhammed is a child molester by our standards. Oops. Forgot. Cultural relativism. Value what they value because they value it. Disregard your own standards in favor of theirs. Got it.

Yes Sir.

Maybe the U.S. should make an example of this guy and Private Slovik him to demonstrate our sincerity and the depths of our feelings on this matter to the Islamics.

I've met more than one person that defends beating their wife in terms of family values.

Posted by Zed

Funny Flag!

What good is the Book of Proverbs if not to provide justification for spousal abuse?

Political correctness will be our downfall!

Next step, understanding "honor killings" by Islamics in the U.S.,
Posted by Johnson

Right, like the next step after recognizing gay marriage is recognizing beastiality.

Slippery Slope for sure.

Heck, for starters, Muhammed is a child molester by our standards.
Posted by Johnson

Don't be stupid... The biblical Joseph, stepfather of Jesus, is a child molester by todays standards too.

so much for the concept that these are Americas best and bravest.

This cultural relativism has resulted in our "valuing" other beliefs too much.

Sort of like Bush being a dancing monkey for the saudis.

But its nice to see Operation Hearts and Minds is surging right along.

so much for the concept that these are Americas best and bravest.

Posted by Georgeisadrunk

Clearly, by many Americans' standards, this type of behavior is included in the definition of what is meant by America's best and bravest.

"Don't be stupid..."

Fer "johnson" that's a physical impossibility.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-05-18 09:44 AM

The "tantrum" you speak of is killing more Americans.

But you're the one who supports the troops. I forgot.

I guess it's the "bring it on" strategy.

"Do we find it necessary to manipulate the beast that is Islam since if we don't, its practioners will throw a tantrum? Screw them."

According to Johnson there is no need to make any attempt to win their hearts and minds.

Johnson feels we should just bomb them into submission and force our culture and religion upon them because there is no way they would ever consider rising up in insurgency against that.

Posted by Zed at 2008-05-18 09:38 AM

I don't know, Johnson. What's the next step in the boor process? This behavior strikes me as akin to the Taliban blowing up statues of Buddha.

You equate "desecration" of a printed book, a common undistinguished article, with the destruction of those works of art?

America subservient.

A rose is just rose, but a book is not just a book, This is perhaps "serious and deeply troubling". So is the whole idea of mixing the military people from a secular culture into the midst of a staunchly unsecular part of the world. We in the secular West have to be much more careful when in their world than they have to be in ours.

See: www.meforum.org and www.analyst-network.com

The Military got it right, no matter what the arm-chair DR soldier's "think." They disciplined and got the idiot out of the way. I'm sure they really enjoyed going around apologizing for this foolishness.

Good grief! Now we pay obeisance to the Islamics by displaying special consideration for a collection of printed materials because ... Why? Considering the content of that trash if anyone wanted totake the trouble to respond it would be to demonstrate symbolic revulsion. Print the Koran on paper that can be used as toilet paper, and disposed of in sumps, cesspools, and the like.

Do we find it necessary to manipulate the beast that is Islam since if we don't, its practioners will throw a tantrum? Screw them.

What's step 2 in the surrender process?

Posted by Johnson

You are truly a spectactular idiot - a characature of the "boorish American" who thinks the world should conform to our standards.

The fact that the incredible stupidity of this deed escapes you is no surprise, and the fact that it may provoke an increase in violence against our troops will probably only cause an even greater surge of testosterone in you.

Lucky for you, with your head clearly so near your scrotum, it'll be an instant rush.

"With the Islamics, if we want to survive, we've got to mercilessly thrash them, impose our will, take what we want, do what we want, and not be so circumspect in trying to tiptoe around "their ways."

Jeezus, yer a demented motherfucker. I'm glad shitbags like you are a pathetic minority.

Is your recommended strategy to pet the mad dog, saying nice Achmed, and hoping that it doesn't bite you.
Posted by Johnson

No, but if we can't tow the line of our own ideals when dealing with others, when warring against others, if we judge ourselves by the lowest common denominator, saying at least we're not as bad as X, then I don't know how much better we are than the ones we are fighting.

Don't be stupid...

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

You are asking waaaay too much of the DR gasbag Johnson!

I don't know if we should give such special consideration to a book. If someone shot up a bible, I couldn't care less. Some ass clowns would care, but so what. Just like publishing likenesses of Mohamed, to fucking bad.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-05-18 09:50 AM

Next step, understanding "honor killings" by Islamics in the U.S.,

Posted by Johnson

Right, like the next step after recognizing gay marriage is recognizing beastiality.

Slippery Slope for sure.

There is a common element there. The homosexuals and the Islamics are demanding that we change our ways to appease their peculiar practices.

I can understand the anguish of homosexual people, who want their attempted simulation of heterosexual behavior and practices to be viewed as equivalent by the general community, so as to validate their sense of self-worth.

The essential characteristic is that "they" want "us" to change our ways to accommodate "them. It's as if in an apartment, a man was playing drums with vigor at 3 A.M., and telling his neighbors to adopt to his practices.

Homosexuals want to demonstrate affection publicly and not have normal people experience a sense of revulsion. They want the world to change to accommodate them, even in its psychological reaction to aberrant behavior. It's similar to saying, "Smell this pile of shit. Henceforth you shall not perceive that smell as malodorous, but shall experience it as pleasant and advise us that it is a pleasant aroma."

The same thread runs through the Islamic interaction with the West. They unwaveringly demand that the West accommodate them. And they threaten negative actions if we don't, and sometimes take negative actions even if we do. Rather than responding in kind, being wimps, we try to discover ways to appease them.

During the days the Roman Empire held sway, it is said that a Roman could go anywhere in the Empire and not be harmed or attacked. The reason was that such impudence would be met with a swift and sure, and unrestrained response without the Romans engaging in a dialogue with themselves regarding how those being conditioned would "feel," or understanding the offenses committed by the Romans that "justified" the behavior. In some ways, street gangs refusing to be "dissed" show more sense than the American government and people, which instead of a "fire in the belly" response, based on a refusal to be "dishonored," is so self-restrained. If a line has been crossed, it should be regarded as zero-one.

"I don't know if we should give such special consideration to a book..."

Shredding Qurans; shredding Bibles. Before you know it, we're sitting by while one of the ten greatest museums in the world is destroyed under our noses.

Wait a minute....

It's just another one of those great divides in human behavior. Some of us are going to church in a bit and some others of us are opening the beer to pour on our cornflakes.

There is no reasoning with Johnson. He is a hate filled person with no sense of comprehension of humanity. He is incapable of even the most basic of human emotions.

Talking to a monster like Johnson is a waste of time. It would be like trying to convince Pol Pot to have a sex change operation and become a nun.

It is best to just look at it as you pass his posts by, and hope that there aren't too many more like him around. Can you imagine growing up in this twisted minds household? Talk about child abuse--with Johnson as a role model, we could easily come up with another Bundy or Gacy.

Shredding Qurans; shredding Bibles. Before you know it, we're sitting by while one of the ten greatest museums in the world is destroyed under our noses.

Wait a minute....

Posted by Zed at 2008-05-18 10:34 AM

But that's not what we are talking about, you are arguing a slippery slope. We do know that crazy Islamics have no problem destroying other people's religious institutions, which again is another level. We are talking one book among hundred of millions of the same book.

"We are talking about one book among hundreds of millions...."

Sure. And that Bible you wouldn't mind seeing shot up, same deal. Doesn't matter. If I observed you taking target practice with someone else's sacred objects I'd have grounds to wonder when you would start torching cats.

"This behavior strikes me as akin to the Taliban blowing up statues of Buddha."

Nowhere NEAR being "akin" to blowing up the statues.

1. The statues were antiquities, works of art.
The koran was a modern book.

2. The statues were unique, irreplacable.
The koran was one of perhaps a billion,
easily replaced.

Why do you and your little friends feel compelled to rationize EVERYTHING in favor of radical Muslim extremists? Shooting holes in the koran was stupid and childish, yes, but deserving of death? THAT is what your Muslim buddies would do in response. What do you think the Buddhists should do in response to the statues' destruction?

"No where near...."

I disagree. Same class of behavior. Barbarians in small ways look to be barbarians in ways large.

"Talking to a monster like Johnson is a waste of time. It would be like trying to convince Pol Pot to have a sex change operation and become a nun."

I think almost everyone here can agree on that point.

"Look to be barbarians in ways large...."

While were on this subject, why do YOU think the great American people let the Iraqi National Museum go down the tubes?

"I don't know if we should give such special consideration to a book."

BJ, how do you feel about giving consideration to the culture and laws of the area/nation where our soldiers are stationed?

US troops in Iraq are there, according to Bush, at the will of the Iraqi government. A government that was established by a constitution that states in it's first article is that "No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam."

There were two partners to the cultural disaster of the Iraqi Museum---The looters and those that winked at the looting. Why did we wink?

I have to support Zed on this. Though we disagree on many aspects of Faith, I am not so far removed from my born-again Christian past that I have forgotten the meaning of an act of desecration. Especially from a Military that's been in deep trouble over respecting the right of, and from, religion within their own ranks.

"When in Rome" is so quaint. Like the Geneva Conventions.

We are talking one book among hundred of millions of the same book.

Posted by bigjohn_1972

What does it matter that this is an "item" among millions? What matters is the fact that it is sacred to the people in whose country we are fighting in and that part of our strategy for success is to win their cooperation and approval. Every time one of our soldiers shoots up a Koran or rapes a local girl or shoots up a family it makes our job there that much harder. Consider the fact that we get pissed off at LEGAL aliens in our country only because they don't know our language. What would happen if these people started burning the US flag?

in favor of radical Muslim extremists?

Posted by jestgettinalong

Thank you for another load of bullshit! The Koran is not only sacred to Muslim extremists, it is sacred to all Muslims, even the ones who are helping us. Nice message we are sending if we don't deal with this idiot GI.

johnson

are you kidding me!?
the american military is in a muslim country supposedly on a mission called iraqi freedom
where everyone there thats fighting the americans think the usa is out to get all of islam not just the extremists

and some guy is messing up the propaganda engine more out of the favor of the usa and you are for it?

who's team are you on?? america's or pope pious?

if this same guy wants to do this in the usa.. no one will stop him... but he's not helping americans or iraqi's by doing this... just giving cause for more bloodshed

"This behavior strikes me as akin to the Taliban blowing up statues of Buddha."

Nowhere NEAR being "akin" to blowing up the statues.
~Jest

Behavior, in destroying not the value of destroyed piece.

The behavior is identical, as is the mindset.

"He is a hate filled person with no sense of comprehension of humanity. He is incapable of even the most basic of human emotions."

Oh, I don't know...I think Johnson has a sense of comprehension of humanity. He is appalled at fathers killing their daughters in honor killings, the killing of cartoon artists, authors of books, stonings, beheadings etc. etc. I think that demonstrates a comprehension of humanity. How do YOU feel about those INHUMANE atrocities committed by your little friends? I think he is capable of human emotions too. It appears that, like me, he experiences REVULSION, ANGER, and many other human emotions regarding the activities of your buddies. What emotions besides glee do you experience with your pals' deeds, Boob?

Jestgettinalong

Johnson wasn't as appalled by those things as he is by gays showing affection in public or people of a different religion. Why don't you talk about the things he really hates--anyone different from him. He can be your pal--you guys can start your own little hate club.

"The behavior is identical, as is the mindset."

If you like. However, I don't consider making holes in a common book equal behavior to destroying irreplacable antique works of art. Kinda like I don't consider swatting your child equal behavior to strapping bombs on him and blowing him to pieces. I might be wrong, but I don't think the law considers them equal behavior either...at least U.S. law doesn't.

Blowing some holes in the Koran. That's a great metaphor! I use my Koran for toilette paper.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-05-18 10:24 AM

No, but if we can't tow the line of our own ideals when dealing with others, when warring against others, if we judge ourselves by the lowest common denominator, saying at least we're not as bad as X, then I don't know how much better we are than the ones we are fighting.

What is this "better than" - "worse than" remonstration?

As Dewey observed, there is "in-group" and "out-group" behavior.

We have certain rules that are quite practical in most circumstances, in establishing "in-group" ways of behavior that accord us leeway and prevent others from intruding in our living of our daily lives, subject of course, to boundaries established within the society.

Our interaction with "out-groups" is predicated upon different premises. And as one group arrayed against another, we are not subject to restrictions that provide for a range of consideration provided each member of the "in-group" within a society.

As a group, we are mutually and reciprocally committed to act in behalf of our group against any other group, and without any goal except that our "in-group" prevail.

This process can be better perceived by interaction between two smaller groups in earlier times where the immediate consequences are apparent. The vanquished city has the heads of its leaders displayed on pikes. The city is sacked, its women raped or carried off, and depending on circumstances, its resources in part at least, committed to the use of the conqueror. Remember that the conquered then often continued to pay tribute to the coffers of the conqueror. You are undoubtedly familiar with the drill.

The idea that the same behavior should be indulged toward "out-groups" as toward "in-groups" is an aberration due to flawed thinking, which confusedly confers "rights" as if disposition of "out-group" members was analogous to treatment of members of the "in-group," and in anyway essential in preserving practices related to members of the "in-group."

There is "them" and there is "us," and any undue sensibility in identifying with them and pretending they are members of our group as if our treatment of them affects how we treat ourselves, our group members, is erroneous.

If our enemies are determined, ferocious, and unrestrained, emulating them isn't a matter of "better" or "worse," it's a matter of being better able to defend yourselves and avoid the consequences of defeat. You are recommending a mindset that would make us more vulnerable to defeat because we are not willing to make the extreme effort in behalf of our group, tribe, city, country, whatever. Now that's "bad," having an attitude and behaving in a way more conducive to our own subjugation. Review the whys and wherefores of your proposed value system.

The consequences of defeat are "bad." Mobilizing your forces and being victorious provides "good" conseuqnces. What is the basis for the system you imply exists that would command "values" resulting in conduct inimicable to our well-being. I suppose that sufficiently "sophisticated" (in the most remote sense of the term) arguments can be formulated to recommend national suicide as a course of action that is preferable. The inhibitions you suggest are proper is again, beginning the slide on a slippery slope to national disaster to the detriment of all members of our society.

Where are the Bible burning DR libs today? Where are those who believe religion in general is sacriligious? Where is the burn all these books crowd if you feel like it?

Now, I believe our military personnel may not want to incite local populations with these acts....but, that issue is debatable. Should we allow the personnel to express their feelings/belief and say to hell with the sensitivities of the populace?

Oh, I don't know...I think Johnson has a sense of comprehension of humanity.

Posted by jestgettinalong

Sorry, that doesn't cut it. It can't be one-sided. Reprehensible, inhuman behaviour has to be condemned on both sides not just the ones you are fighting against. America is supposed to be an ideal democracy that has progressed to a higher level. Unfortunately that vision has suffered in the last few years as we have started to drop down towards the level of our enemies.

Blowing some holes in the Koran. That's a great metaphor! I use my Koran for toilette paper.

Posted by fwthom at 2008-05-18 11:04 AM

The Koran and the Old Testament are the same book. Christians and Muslims worship the same god. They just don't accept Jesus, and take the OT more seriously than Christians. I hear Genesis is great for wiping your ass--wait till you stand before Jesus, and see if you can explain its properties.

johnson
your long winded verbose responses don't mean you know what you are talking about.

he's in the military... he's not a civilian

he isn't guaranteed all the rights of a civilian

and by doing this he's only putting his fellow soldiers more in danger.

and you're too obtuse and stubborn to understand

he's back home now
he can blow as many holes in as many books as he wants

but only a fool would back someone doing it in a war zone when the goal is to get the iraqi people as a whole on the side of the americans

"He can be your pal--you guys can start your own little hate club."

Gee, Boob...'pears to me YOU are the one experiencing all that "hate" emotion. Has Johnson peed in your cereal or what? Actually, the only thing I can think of at present to dredge up any hate is the INHUMANE actions of your little Muslim friends.

buffalo

one correction

muslims do accept jesus and the virgin birth

they don't believe in his divinity however

he's not god or the son of god

he's a man

I use my Koran for toilette paper.

Posted by fwthom

...and before going out for a night on the town you spash your face with some toilet water.

jest am i a little muslim friend causing inhumane actions??

"Reprehensible, inhuman behaviour has to be condemned on both sides not just the ones you are fighting against."

Granted. However, in THIS instance I don't consider shooting holes in a koran inhuman behavior. As I said before, it was a stupid, thoughtless act that would be underserving of of the kind of response Muslims are known for. His comrades should give him an ass kicking for exposing them to unnecessary danger.

Posted by YAV at 2008-05-18 10:52 AM

When in Rome" is so quaint. Like the Geneva Conventions.

Well, both relate to times gone by.

The Geneva Conventions were devised as a set of rules addressing circumstances that no longer exist. There are new ways of war. The Conventions were supposed to accord protection to civilians, but now you would accord protection under those documents to people who deliberately target civilians, making their application oxymoronic.

People who target civilians, hide among civilians, and act in contravention of what were goals of the Convention are to be protected? That would result in us being enablers of conduct that the overall undertaking sought to avoid. Really?

The West has become dedicated to ritual killings. Instead of acknowledging we want to destroy our enemies, we employ time-consuming rituals which are intended to denigrate them, and which we satisfy ourselves it does for us. But their supporters are never convinced by the exercise. What does the ritual accomplish? We should get back to basics.

My reference to the Romans is quite different in that it was an example of how behavior can be controlled if those with the overwhelming power demand that they receive "respect" at least as demonstrated by absence of hostile "onduct."

jest

i wouldn't call this inhumane either

i agree with you that its stupid and thoughtless

and also careless and i agree his comrads should beat his ass for doing something so dumb

Oh, I don't know...I think Johnson has a sense of comprehension of humanity.
~Jest

LOL yea as long as humanity can be very narrowly defined.

"His comrades should give him an ass kicking for exposing them to unnecessary danger."

I totally agree, and then his superiors should send him home and discharge him with an undesirable discharge immediately, possibly have him serve some time in prison as well. If those soldiers at Abu Ghraib deserved to be punished so does this asshole.

"jest am i a little muslim friend causing inhumane actions??"

I don't know...are you? I certainly hope not.

danni

as a muslim, i don't know if i would go as far as putting him in prison

but a discharge of some sort is necessary

either that or some lowely duty as a potato peeler on some subarine.

"I don't know...are you? I certainly hope not."

unless you call making metal music inhumane, and some might. :)

as long as you realize that a generalization against all of us (muslims) doesn't make sense

"I totally agree, and then his superiors should send him home and discharge him with an undesirable discharge immediately, possibly have him serve some time in prison as well. If those soldiers at Abu Ghraib deserved to be punished so does this asshole."

We can ALL thank the Almighty that we were NOT Danni's children. Can you imagine the punishment we'd have received for breaking a window? If this ignorant soul deserves all this for shooting holes in a book, what would she have done to us?

My reference to the Romans is quite different in that it was an example of how behavior can be controlled if those with the overwhelming power demand that they receive "respect" at least as demonstrated by absence of hostile "onduct."
~Johnson

Why do we pay the Arabs for oil?

Why not demand it's delivery or at least an exclusion zone around the oil fields while we remove it from the ground.

Why pay homage to the arabs when they had no knowledge of it's value before we started drilling for it?

The Geneva Conventions were devised as a set of rules addressing circumstances that no longer exist.

Yeah. Morality. Another "quaint" relic.

Posted by klifferd at 2008-05-18 11:08 AM
he's in the military... he's not a civilian

he isn't guaranteed all the rights of a civilian

and by doing this he's only putting his fellow soldiers more in danger.

and you're too obtuse and stubborn to understand

When someone who identifies and sympathizes with our enemies, his fellow Muslims, rebukes our actions because they harm our mission I take notice, as your good-will and good intentions are unexpected.

I'm not contesting the ability, the power of the military, to remove the soldier from the combat zone.

I'm questioning the entire mindset that has resulted in our catering to our enemies rather than having them try to cause us to moderate our conduct.

The idea of "spreading democracy" among Islamics to whom the secular state is at best subsidiary to theidea of the umma (with some fault lines, of course), is not an exercise of brilliance. Many realpolitik observers have found that this aspect of Bush's policy has compromised our ability to accomplish what should be our goals of acting in our national interest.

Setting up a national government in Iraq, and ostensibly investing it with the powers that Bush did instead of maintaining an occupation was a serious strategic error.

My observation is that we had better "condition" the Iraqis and other Muslims that they need to accommodate us rather than buying into their idea that they are the ones to be accommodated. If a clash is necessary to establish this principle, then it is long overdue. And we should show no reservations in our use of power.

Our reluctance to assert the requirement that they adapt themselves to meet our needs or suffer the consequences operates to our detriment. That we defer to them because we want to avoid adversity, riots over the depiction of Muhammed and the like, is the problem.

We need to overcome our reluctance to confront them so that they fear the consequences of not complying with our demands rather than vice versa.

The insolence of the oil producing countries in continuing their current policies and negatively impacting our standard of living and way of life, demonstrates the failure of our appeasement policies. We need to establish our ascendancy. If not, them we can find and produce oil from among the embers of what remains of them. They need to be induced to be docile and compliant. We are evidently not accomplishing that with our importunations.

Posted by Zap at 2008-05-18 11:37 AM

Why do we pay the Arabs for oil?

Why not demand it's delivery or at least an exclusion zone around the oil fields while we remove it from the ground.

Why pay homage to the arabs when they had no knowledge of it's value before we started drilling for it?

I recognize the tenor in which the questions are posed. But that aside, they are good questions.

Of course, some of the statements relate to arguments we put forth to justify our appropriation of oil. I don't think that justification is necessary, but it seems to be an exercise people indulge nowadays, so why not.

Essentially, we need the oil. It is essential to our well-being and maintaining our standard of living. We have the power to take the oil. God helps those who help themselves. Let's help ourselves instead of directing our energies toward becoming philosophers, ethicists, and moralists, who justify our poverty. We can't afford to support such pastimes if we are impoverished. Maybe we should dispatch them with "all the lawyers," as Dickens character said.

"Why pay homage to the arabs when they had no knowledge of it's value before we started drilling for it?

Posted by Zap"

Bring back Manifest Destiny?

"This behavior strikes me as akin to the Taliban blowing up statues of Buddha."

Jesus.

Its a stack paper of which there are millions of identical copies. The Buddhas were unique works of art.

Perspective. Get some.

"Returning to the question of being loved or feared, I sum up by saying, that since his being loved depends upon his subjects, while his being feared depends upon himself, a wise Prince should build on what is his own, and not on what rests with others. Only, as I have said, he must do his utmost to escape hatred." - Machiavelli

Value what they value because they value it.

Johnson: How do you propose that the U.S. turn a Muslim country into a democratically governed ally without showing respect for Islam?

If you support the war, you really have two choices: You either respect Islam as the predominant religion in Iraq, which will remain predominant under any form of government the Iraqis create, or you subjugate the populace and force Christianity on them -- making Ann Coulter's fondest wish come true.

Not to worry -- if it offends allah, this guy will be spending the afterlife in hell.

"You either respect Islam as the predominant religion in Iraq, which will remain predominant under any form of government the Iraqis create, or you subjugate the populace and force Christianity on them -- making Ann Coulter's fondest wish come true."

Posted by rcade at 2008-05-18 12:03 PM

Gosh--I wonder what Johnsons choice would be--my my, what a tuffy.

"...making Ann Coulter's fondest wish come true."

Clearly, this is also johnson's fondest wish.

Its a stack paper of which there are millions of identical copies. The Buddhas were unique works of art.

Perspective. Get some.

Posted by sully

since you have so much perspective, what would you do if you saw a group of muslims burning one of about a million american flags at Arlington National Cemetary?

Johnson's rant against gays was the part i didn't get. How one can compare a subset of people who just want the same basic civil rights as others around them have, when they aren't hurting anyone, to a bloodthirsty, vengeful, mysogynistic delusional religion is beyond me.

Personally, I think the soldier who did this deserved to be punished for it, but strictly because he is a soldier, and no, he does not have the same freedom of speech the rest of us have. Military personnel have given that up whenever it compromises their mission, which an attack like this does.

However, were he a civilian, I would applaud this act. Islam is in the business of litarally taking itself deadly seriously, and perhaps the best thing for the world would be for them to be scorned and reviled as a backward and pathetic group. Not persecuted, mind you, as that strengthens spiritual beliefs for the most part, just kind of derided globally as mankind's ignorant savages, untill they get over it.

And yes, before someone points it out, I am prejudiced against islam, as I am prejudiced against various atrocities such as stoning women for daring to be raped. I can never refer to islam as a religion of peace because i have read the quran and it is vindictive, full of violence, and malignantly aimed at converting or subverting the rest of mankind to create Allah's kingdom right here. The only ones calling it a religion of peace are the apologists for it with their milktoast version that is sadly not shared by a vast number of muslims, and people who are trying to placate them before another temper tantrum gets an artist or writer killed because he didn't properly revere their invisible friends.

Finally, I'm sick of our side bending over backwards for them. You know what? Western values are better. Just plain fact. I don't believe in any god, fairy, easter bunny, or whatever, but at least our deluded religious beleive in a god who said something about turning the other cheek, which means not just reacting out of rage, but gives the option of rational discourse. And sure, christians who cling to the old testament are out there screaming at society things like "Katrina was brought on us because we allow gays in our society," and "911 happened because we support abortion and god is punishing those innocent people because of it (paraphrased)," but our society is for the most part better, because we freely call these people nut cases and can say "shame on them." The problem with muslim societys is how often they either listen to their most fundamental and militant, or at least stand aside and silently applaud. I won't call ours as bad as theirs until i see little christian kids strapping bombs on their backs. Last of all, please note, you will NEVER see an atheist suicide bomber.

I'm afraid that we will see a lot of these soldiers coming home with this frame of mind or lack there of. Are we training a new generation of right wing extremist, Anti-Religious BIGOTS!!!

Granted. However, in THIS instance I don't consider shooting holes in a koran inhuman behavior. As I said before, it was a stupid, thoughtless act that would be underserving of of the kind of response Muslims are known for. His comrades should give him an ass kicking for exposing them to unnecessary danger.

Posted by jestgettinalong

First, I was responding to your post about Johnson's comprehension of humanity. I did not specify that what this soldier did was inhumane. I agree that it was thoughtless and exposed his fellow soldiers to unecessary additional danger, however, it was reprehensible in that this "book" is sacred to the people we are supposed to be there helping. If this is not the case, then just say so, "we are here to steal your oil" and then, of course, this kind of behaviour would fall perfectly in line with that mission.

I say we put them all in "Internment camps" and 60 years from no we can apologize andf give them all 20,000 bucks. The Japanese seemed okay with it.

Two things that are Okay to burn..The Koran and the Mexican flag..I am good with that, seems like free speech to me, Just ask the America Flag burners and the Christian haters. This place is full of them

Posted by zeropointnrg

Johnson?.....is that you behind those Foster Grants?

How odd, and silly. I'm one of your christian haters, i guess. I don't really hate them, i just hate them trying to impinge on my freedom with their beliefs, and i want them to get treatment for their psychotic belief in an invisible friend, but why ask me about that? Burn any flag. It's only a symbol - what if your flag is burned, do you somehow lose your patriotism, and maybe your ability to fly? Noooooo! no more happy thoughts lol. Korans and mexicans flags are both ok to burn too. Oxygen reacts freely, I hold nothing against it. Why would you ask us? And the internment camp part? How very sad.

"...since you have so much perspective, what would you do if you saw a group of muslims burning one of about a million american flags at Arlington National Cemetary?"

Well, I don't know what he would do, but first I would declare a jihad. Then, I would behead them, burn their bodies and then drag them through the streets before I hung them on a bridge. THEN, I would get everyone I could to hijack planes and fly them into mosques and sacred sites. THEN, I would get my buddies and we would put on bomb vests and go into the markets in Middle Eastern countries and blow up all the women and children we could. Does that about cover it or do you think my response was too tame for flag burning?

Don't forget to kill one of your daughters if they fratenise with them too!

I would declare a jihad. Then, I would behead them,....

Posted by jestgettinalong

Thanks for confirming that you are at the same level as they are.

It is just sad to see the left here give more leniency to Jihadist, because they hate there own people so much, yet call chrisitians "psychotic" people who travel around the world feeding the poor with donations "not taxpayer" money , bringing medicine to sick communities and sometimes being killed for it. But that is Okay, they will keep doing it and so will I because despite the bad stories you see or People like Hagee ,who Knows if he studies any scripture at all, that God has reserved a final Judgement, he does not "punish" anyone for anything and for him to say so is wrong and his attempt at the spotlight. God simply waits, waits for all his children to finally look up and say, "we need your help" so Yes, there are many who gives us all a bad name, But the majority go forth in silent anonimity doing good work and being blamed for the Hagee's of the wqorld.

And what is most puzzling is chrisitian haters do everything they can to put a stop to the "evil christians" work here and in other countries. I wonder how many more people would starve or die of a disease that has been cured here if the Christian Haters had there way, again another example of the lefts willingness to sacrifice the lives of others for their own selfish, self-centered agenda

since you have so much perspective, what would you do if you saw a group of muslims burning one of about a million American flags at Arlington National Cemetary?

Shoot 'em all.

We have the power to take the oil.

God helps those who help themselves.

Let's help ourselves instead of directing our energies toward becoming philosophers, ethicists, and moralists, who justify our poverty.

We can't afford to support such pastimes if we are impoverished.
~JOHNSON

Why the pussy out with the God reference.

Your sence of values can't stand on there own?

Shoot 'em all.

Posted by CalifChris

but...but...it's only one little flag! There must be millions of the things all over the place. What's the big deal?

Best of luck trying to get the Saudis to give you cheaper petrol after this. LOL

No, seriously. These stories... and other similar ones... get around. And there are consequences in tiny ways. Like the insult the gov. of Pakistan's NWFP gave to NATO ("it's about time you did some soldiering"). Like the Saudis showing Bush the finger when he groveled for cheaper fuel. etc etc.

The only people you harm are yourselves as cooperation gets dinged every time such stories make the rounds.

Keep it up.

"since you have so much perspective, what would you do if you saw a group of muslims burning one of about a million american flags at Arlington National Cemetary?"

If Muslims purchase their own American flags they can burn them like crazy and I don't give a shit. My self worth is not connected to their opinion of my ethnicity or culture.

What Arlington National Cemetery has to do with it is beyond me. This soldier shot the book in a shooting range. Shooting ranges are for shooting. I supposed it is illegal to start a fire at Arlington.

"The only people you harm are yourselves as cooperation gets dinged every time such stories make the rounds.

Keep it up."

I love this shit. As if every American got together and voted to shoot up that stupid fucking book.

It was the actions of one guy. He bought the book. It was his property. Its none of my business and its none of your business what he did with it.

Idiots looking to get all excited about some stupid insult are always going to be able to find one. To pretend that the rest of us could stop any American at any time from ever "insulting" religious wackos, even if we wanted to, is ludicrous.

100 years from now, long after the ME oil fields dry up, these idiots will be begging us to come over and shoot at their Korans, arcade style -- 3 shots for 25c.

Yep, these clowns have the planet by the short hairs now, but by the end of the 21st century they'll be back in the stone age groveling at the free world's doorstep.

I supposed it is illegal to start a fire at Arlington.

www.vvgeocivtrenches.com

Idiots looking to get all excited about some stupid insult are always going to be able to find one.

But tosser is a pak and oh-so superior to us inferior amreekans

will this sincere apology now keep you all from
wanting to blow us off the map and send us to
hell?

What I see as the base problem here is the old "Ugly American" perspective. The one that doesn't care who the locals are, what their customs are, what their standards of behaviour are. Took us a long time to shake that characterization. Seems we're now eager to regain that image.

oh-so superior to us inferior amreekans

You said THAT word! My God!

its none of your business what he did with it.

But it is my business. I see how many agree with him here. I read the "chatter".

Others in positions of power in muslim countries also read "chatter" and behave accordingly.

Trust me, it is not as simple as you might wish it to be.

"But it is my business. I see how many agree with him here. I read the "chatter".

Others in positions of power in muslim countries also read "chatter" and behave accordingly.

Trust me, it is not as simple as you might wish it to be."

No, reality is that you it just as simple I said.

You can either mind your own business or you can choose to be offended by what other people believe.

You want to pretend this incident is so deep but in reality you are just being a drama queen.

will this sincere apology now keep you all from
wanting to blow us off the map and send us to
hell?

Only if your sister is a blonde and you ad her to the pot.

Then we're done.

Johnson's worldview is a reflection of the one held by the ancient Romans. It worked well for the Romans. Here's a clue - we, are not the Romans, nor did we set up our country to be a copy of the Roman empire. So, in order to become like the Roman empire, our system of govt. would have to be scrapped. Therefore, Johnson is promoting the overthrow of our govt. and proclaiming sedition. Good thing for him that he is an anonymous poster on an internet forum.

Reading Johnson's posts (and those of the same opinion as him) I get the feeling that he's almost in tears because the U.S. won't act the way he _demands_ it act. A little strange given that if it did, it would need to view any who it considered a danger to be treated with dire consequences. Starting with people who insisted that their worldview must be adopted, even though it is contrary to the wishes of the country. Amusing that people like Johnson would therefore be among the first lined up against the wall.

But this is merely a forum for expressing one's opinions, so Johnson (and those of his opinion) remain vastly amusing.

No one wants to tackle the implications of the loss of the Iraq National Museum? Too bad, as the subject is appropro to this thread as well as several other subjects.

The first starkly clear evidence there was not merely something flawed but something sick about the American invasion of Iraq was the looting of Baghdad and specifically that Museum.

A number of points were made that day---None of which were lost on the Iraqi populace, among them--

1) We hold your culture and nationality in the utmost contempt. We spit on it, won't lift a finger for it. As someone above stated---Quran and toilet paper, one in the same.

2) While the professional army of a civilized state can be counted on to quickly restore order on a defeated foe, it wasn't worth our time or effort---Thereby demonstrating we have no interest in either professionalism or civilization.

Trust me, it is not as simple as you might wish it to be.

Nope, it isn't. But it will be in 100 years.

"Saudi who?"
"Iraq? Isn't that what I do to start a pool game?"
"Iran? 1st person past indicative of 'to run', right?"
"Pak? What I do just before a trip?"

You want to pretend this incident is so deep

No... it is you being you. It is something.. after listening to the stories of torture... we come to expect.

The pattern stands.

Sure. And that Bible you wouldn't mind seeing shot up, same deal. Doesn't matter. If I observed you taking target practice with someone else's sacred objects I'd have grounds to wonder when you would start torching cats.

Posted by Zed at 2008-05-18 10:44 AM

Wow, you certainly like to stretch things. You compare desecrating a book with torturing a living breathing animal? If you really believe that those two things are synonymous, then I fear there is no reaching you.

Tosser

Only if your sister is a blonde and you ad her to the pot.

Then we're done.

Posted by Tosser at 2008-05-18 02:16 PM

Still working on getting yourself a blonde, I see.
Hang in there, kid. Maybe some blonde tourist will visit Pakistan, see you and fall immediately in love - or lust. (grin)

"Pak? What I do just before a trip?"

Sez someone from a country that begs for table scraps from the Chinese....

See... We are on the way up. You are on the way down.. shitty dollar and eveything.

In 10 years ... the way you're going...next president McCain.... you will be in the basement. I have no idea where you will be in 100 years.

"Others in positions of power in muslim countries also read "chatter" and behave accordingly."

I love all these insinuated threats too. As if Westerners are going to live in constant fear of offending the big bad Muslims.

Let's pretend for a moment that this monitoring of our behavior for these imagined offenses ended with consequences other than smelly mobs jumping up and down and making pointless threats. Let's say the Islamic crazies starting following up on every threat for real. What do you think "the West" would do?

History says it wouldn't be pretty for your lot. So save the threats and mind your own business.

"If you really beleive these things are synonymous...."

One of us doesn't understand human nature. That wouldn't be me.

To be blunt, nice people don't go around smearing shit on things. If you're sufficiently mean as to smear shit one place, you're mean enough to do it someplace else.

Still working on getting yourself a blonde, I see.

I am going to strike gold soon. I can feel it.

Maybe some blonde tourist will visit Pakistan

Pakistan has plenty of blondes... but they are all fake.

It blows me away that we have to actually DEBATE elements of ordinary respect. What a world. And someone above thinks people like me are "psychotic".

"It blows me away that we have to actually DEBATE elements of ordinary respect."

Go live in a country where fathers kill their daughters for talking to a man and everyone calls them heros for it and then see how much respect you have for the local values.

Everyone deserves basic respect as a human being but ideas need to be judged on merit. Some people choose to respect the ideas inspired by the Koran and others are disgusted. And it is really none of your business where any individual falls.

Only if your sister is a blonde and you ad her to the pot.

Incredible that tosser sees an ugly American and becomes indignant, but fails to see himself as an ugly pak.

Such is the stuff hyporcrites are made of . . .

I love all these insinuated threats too.

Oh, you feel threatened???

LOL... that wasn't my intention, dear. I was simply saying, you won't get first class service in muslim countries when your state-department Baboos come calling.

THIS is EXACTLY what happened when some American General came to see Mushi just now. His trip became a waste of time despite all the money you are pouring into Pakistan.

You just won't get your money's worth. Simple.

Again....I am soooo sorry for scaring you. LOL

"But ideas have to be judged on merit...."

Right. My idea was you don't go around insulting or destroying another guy's sacred objects. You don't agree. That's you concept of merit.

"And it's really none of your business where any i