Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

The funds that pay pension and health benefits to police officers, teachers and millions of other public employees across the country are facing a shortfall that could soon run into trillions of dollars. But the accounting techniques used by state and local governments to balance their pension books disguise the extent of the crisis facing these retirees and the taxpayers who may ultimately be called on to pay the freight, according to a growing number of leading financial analysts. State governments alone have reported they are already confronting a deficit of at least $750 billion to cover the cost of the retirement benefits they have promised.

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Yes dear reader. State governments can go bankrupt and they will. Maybe millions of government pensioners are going to be sorely disappointed.

So? They are just freeloading scum sucking off of my tax dollars.

Why should I pay for them to sit back on their ass and not greet shoppers at Wal Mart?

I didn't say I was sympathetic. I'm not.


I didn't say I was sympathetic. I'm not.

Posted by Ray at 2008-05-11 08:55 PM | Reply

Of course not. It's all for Ray. As long as I have My Gold and Silver I am fine in Ray's world. Gold and Silver You can't eat. Gold and silver can't shelter You. Gold and Silver can't bring peace to one's life. Yeah We know You don't believe in sympathy.

Larry Mohr

Yes Larry, I have no sympathy for tax sucking government workers. If you are one of them, tough shit. See how much peace you have when you are flat broke.

My sympathy goes towards their victims. Those who go to work every day trying to earn a honest living, only to see taxes and inflation reduce them to poverty.

"Yes Larry, I have no sympathy for tax sucking government workers."

I have no sympathy for corporatists, who spend all their time lying, cheating, manipulating and exploiting both workers and consumers.

That makes both of us.

There are two major forces at work undermining many of these pensions, when you lift under the hood and really start looking hard at the numbers.
The first is that pensions of Northern states are in dismal shape, because of population shift and a declining tax base. And because the politicians that run those states (and others, unfortunately) don't happen to come from the private sector, they react to a declining tax base by raising taxes, which exacerbates the shift. Until and unless and the Michigans and the Illinois and the Marylands start to make their states more hospitable to new job creation and investment, it will only get worse.
But the second factor is longevity. Public pensions simply have to account for the longer life expectancy, and adjust dramatically upward the length of service required to collect pensions. Otherwise, they'll collapse. The rates of return have to be stratospheric to let tens of thousands of police and fire workers retire after only 20 years, and collect pension benefits for another 40 years. Can't work.

"The rates of return have to be stratospheric to let tens of thousands of police and fire workers retire after only 20 years"

We agree on one thing at least. I've wondered for years how government would be able to pay out all the pensions promised. Many of these people retire after twenty and then go to work for another agency and earn a second pension. I know a lady who earned on with INS and is now working towards a second with DEA.

You tell me why a teacher can retire after 20 years of working 9 months a year and still make just about as much off his pension as he was making while he was working.

You tell me why a government worker should get a retirement that is so much better than the private sector.

You tell me why I should support other people with my retirement check.

"Yes Larry, I have no sympathy for tax sucking government workers"
Posted by Ray at 2008-05-11 09:12 PM

Ray, these "tax sucking government workers" are the teachers that educate your kids, the cops that keep all your gold and silver safe, and the firefighters that keep your house from burning down. Their "victims" are members of society that directly benefit from their services!




So? They are just freeloading scum sucking off of my tax dollars.

Why should I pay for them to sit back on their ass and not greet shoppers at Wal Mart?

Posted by 726



so sad.

"You tell me why a government worker should get a retirement that is so much better than the private sector."

YEAH!

There is a country that has the first hand answer to that query ----- the country is called Iraq!


Bang up job thier doinf too!

Why don't all you bleeding heart libs take one or two of these people into your home and keep them if you feel so strong about it?

I don't care what they did when they were working, it's not my problem to support them when they retire just like it isn't your problem to support me when I retire.

People have to take responsibility for their lives and not depend on the big government for freebies.

The only exception is soldiers who fought for this great country. They are the ones that we always overlook.

That'll get Dem voter attention! That hits 'em where it counts.....So, are they still willing to up taxes to pay for one-size-fits-all health care?

My wife wonders why I plan on working until I hit 70. When my state pension isn't any good, she'll understand then.

The first is that pensions of Northern states are in dismal shape, because of population shift and a declining tax base. And because the politicians that run those states (and others, unfortunately) don't happen to come from the private sector, they react to a declining tax base by raising taxes, which exacerbates the shift

I think that is a very valid point. On the same subject, many northern states pay out much more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending. Has anyone ever seen any analysis of how this impacts their economies?

"You tell me why a government worker should get a retirement that is so much better than the private sector."

Because it was in their employment contract which your government agreed to. You can debate the fairness of government pensions if you want but all of us had the same opportunity to choose to work in one of those jobs. I don't like having to pay tax to make good on pensions any more than anyone else but a deal is a deal....well unless you play the kinds of games corporations do with their workers' pension funds.

dan, a MBA took the company I worked for down the shitter and my pension went south with him. Are you going to prop me up? Start sending your checks on the 15th of the month. Don't miss a month because I have a life style I need to maintain.


"I don't care what they did when they were working; it's not my problem to support them when they retire just like it isn't your problem to support me when I retire."

YEAH!

Expect for that part that the Employer(s) Offered a Pension as part of the Employees Compensation package ---- not as a "gift"

You know the package that's negotiated between the employee and the employer as the terms for their employment! A Contract if you will!

Do you even know what a Pension is?

redneck;

You are just jealous. I retired after 34 yeas in the Fire Department. I LOVE MY PENSION..

You had the same opportunity to try and join as I did. I WIN......

"You tell me why a government worker should get a retirement that is so much better than the private sector."


Because it was mutually agreed upon at the time the job was taken.

Said government worker made the decision to take said job, in part, based upon the promise of the fat pension.

As pro-business as I am, I have very little patience for any entity, be it government or private sector, that tries to weasel out of promises made; particularly when the pension payees made life decisions based upon the mutually agreed upon promise.

Honor your fucking obligations.

If pensions are too costly, re-structure or eliminate them going forward, but honor the promises that have already been made.

If pensions are too costly, re-structure or eliminate them going forward, but honor the promises that have already been made.

Posted by JeffJ

Fine. Anybody that isn't vested only gets SS. The rest of you are on easy street.

What happens when the entity is bankrupt? Don't look now but most of the governments in the US are.

I don't know about you jef but I wasn't asked if I would approve any of the bennifit packages they got. I wasn't asked if I approved the expansion of government. I never get ask anything except why my taxes haven't been paid so they can get re-elected for all their giv-aways.

Do they get your approval jef?

The only exception is soldiers who fought for this great country. They are the ones that we always overlook.

Why should soldiers get a pension if other public servants can't? What makes joining the armed services any better than teaching children (the future of the country)? What makes it better than dedicating your life to protecting others as Police and Firemen do? I could go on and on.

We're you in the armed services Sniper? I ask because I'm trying to understand your point of view.

What happens when the entity is bankrupt?

Then the would-be recipients are screwed.



I don't know about you jef but I wasn't asked if I would approve any of the bennifit packages they got. I wasn't asked if I approved the expansion of government. I never get ask anything except why my taxes haven't been paid so they can get re-elected for all their giv-aways.

No, but you are allowed to vote. We live in a Democratic Republic. Nobody is going to fully approve of what the government does - as any mixed Demographic group, the sub-groups often have conflicting interests.


Do they get your approval jef?

Of course not. However, I am free to emigrate if I feel the government of another country is better representative of my personal views.

The Federal gov restructured it's retirement system in the mid-80's. It is much more cost effective now.

Which country is left that has a much smaller and less costly government that a person can move to?

dfi, I didn't say all soldiers. Peace time soldiers arn't laying their asses on the line and shouldn't get special treatment and yes, I was a combat engineer in the army.




Because it was mutually agreed upon at the time the job was taken.

Said government worker made the decision to take said job, in part, based upon the promise of the fat pension.

As pro-business as I am, I have very little patience for any entity, be it government or private sector, that tries to weasel out of promises made; particularly when the pension payees made life decisions based upon the mutually agreed upon promise.

Honor your fucking obligations.

If pensions are too costly, re-structure or eliminate them going forward, but honor the promises that have already been made.

Posted by JeffJ


Well said. The whiny, bitter people posting here about "Scum-suckers" are despicable. Maybe if these employees were paid more, they wouldn't need the pension package as part of their compensation.

Why don't all you bleeding heart libs...

Posted by Sniper

Start a campaign, so everyone who thinks like you can donate your social security checks when they start coming in. You can take care of yourself, right?

I'm not worried about my Federal civil service pension because the Treasury can always print up some more money. States and cities cannot do that, fuck em!

Hagbard,

I'll do that, so long as you let me pay the tax rate poor people do and you voluteer to pay the "rich people" tax rate. Then again, I know I'll never see any social security, even though I've paid into it for a long time, so I lose nothing there I haven't already lost.

Maybe if these employees were paid more, they wouldn't need the pension package as part of their compensation.

Posted by midiman

That is a diversion make the cost of labor seem less than it realy is. The auto companies in Detroit did it and now they find themselves in deep dodo.

The employees liked it because they saw it as security for when they retired and the auto companies loved it because they were only looking 1 quarter ahead and made them look like heros and not the assholes they realy were.

What part of economics and saving for your retirement don't you guys understand? You can't spend it all today and still have it next week.

Which country is left that has a much smaller and less costly government that a person can move to?
dfi, I didn't say all soldiers. Peace time soldiers arn't laying their asses on the line and shouldn't get special treatment and yes, I was a combat engineer in the army.
Posted by Sniper at 2008-05-12 02:14 PM


Is that an Al-Qaeda recruitment slogan or what?:]

I'm sure these government workers can pool some money and hire a bomb delivery or antrhax pizza to the Federal Reserve, but they've already devalued the dollar to FOUR PENNIES, maybe less.

What ever happened to that anthrax investigation, anyhow? Did they find what they were looking for? It's gone by way of the DC madam story - buried deep.
Download her cell phone records in ZIP format for yourselves, here's a combined PDF.

Use www.411.com and www.anywho.com to reverse search the phone numbers.

Sniper,


Upon entering the work-force out-of-college, my dad gave me the following advice:

"Regarding retirment...never rely on any income other than what is self-funded. Social security, pensions, etc. may not be there when you actually plan on drawing those benefits. Plan your retirement around what is self-funded and if other options are still there, like Social Security, it's just gravy and makes your retirement even more enjoyable in terms of spending."

Here is San Diego--we are two steps from BK.

The elected officials got in bed with the unions to promote their ponzi scheme and over promised and the taxes will never be high enough.

The only way out of the overpromise is to file BK--because the unions will not negotiate a lower deal and the unions run the cities.

We have librarians--all very good folks mind you--getting a lump sum retirement payment of $300,000--and $120,000 every year after that until they die!

The same for landscapers--the city council people are super uber rich after they retire--the senior cops and firemen too--

They make more when they retire than when they supposedly worked!

It is a stick up to the taxpayers.

The city of Vallejo just filed BK--they blame it the housing problem--not the over promises to the unions that run the city. The unions also got these characters elected.

Because if you actually had an honest person run for office--the unions would keep them out.

Murphy

dan, a MBA took the company I worked for down the shitter and my pension went south with him. Are you going to prop me up? Start sending your checks on the 15th of the month. Don't miss a month because I have a life style I need to maintain.

I've never had a traditional pension and am going to rely entirely on my 401k and IRA.

I'll admit I don't know much about pensions but aren't they typically insured by the federal government?

Who has the last word on this and what might they do.

Our Government, of course. They will just speed up the printing presses until their benefits are once again solvent. Inflation is a most insidious unspoken form of taxation.

KB--

Yes they are--I have one there from a company that did an Enron before Enron made it fashionable.

Probelm is that this program will likely go broke too--or they will only pay the members 30 cents on the dollar.

401k and IRA the only way to go--and divest the money to different plans--not all in one basket so to speak.

Murphy

Nut--cities don''t have a printing machine to print money...


Murphy

"Regarding retirment...never rely on any income other than what is self-funded. Social security, pensions, etc. may not be there when you actually plan on drawing those benefits. Plan your retirement around what is self-funded and if other options are still there, like Social Security, it's just gravy and makes your retirement even more enjoyable in terms of spending."

That was excellent advice.

I also agree with you that when certain promises are made, those that made the promises should be held accountable, whether they be government or corporate. If the managers of an entity do not have the courage to admit these annuities may be underfunded, and take appropriate action for remedy, all monies should be withheld from the managers to help cover the shortfall. Enron and the government are both excellent examples of this type of abuse.

What makes joining the armed services any better than teaching children (the future of the country)?

Without a military to protect you whining liberal teachers, you wouldnt be able to fill the future kids head's with all the crap you want to. Just ask any moderate muslim teacher in the islamic world, especially afghanistan....

Boaz-
It's beyond comical that you berate liberals here as being anti-American and support them there (Afghanistan) against "conservatives" (ie, the Taliban).

It's easy to promise the moon when you will never be held responsible. Everyone is looking for a 'free lunch' and there ain't no such thing.

There are companies out there that are like Enron, bot before and after. I was caught before just like murphy. I had about $40k worth of company stock back in the early 80s and couldn't sell without quiting the company. They finaly went tits up and I lost it all. The guy even sucked as much money out of the regular retirement acount so it was only worth a fraction of what it was.

Bottom line, don't preach to me about the people that will get hurt. I started socking it away like there was no time left. Look maw, no regular trips to the expensive restraunt anymore and no new cars every other year. No more big trips to the south seas. Suck it up people. Cover your own ass, even if it is the size of a small car.

The shorter "Sniper":

I've got mine. Fuck the rest.

Betelg,

If you get yours to begin with, you dont have to worry about the others. If everyone took care of themselves and passed on the responsibility gene, this country would be better for it.

Boaz-
re: "If everyone took care of themselves and passed on the responsibility gene, this country would be better for it."

Posted by boaz at 2008-05-12 04:32 PM | Reply

So, will McCain be receiving the "responsibility gene" from Bush?
Oh, well you don't care, you've got yours.

I've got mine. Fuck the rest.

Posted by BetelG

Like Boaz said, If you all worried more about your retirement and less on pissing away your money now most of you would be in good shape.

We all choose how to spend our money and if you screwed up when you had the money, don't blame me.

Sniper wrote:
"You tell me why a teacher can retire after 20 years of working 9 months a year and still make just about as much off his pension as he was making while he was working."

Answer: you can't do what you describe above.
All teacher retirement systems have a formula in place. Number of years in system + age =X. If that magic number is not met, you can't draw full benefits.
The "X" varies by state.

Why not ask: "how can a soldier work 20 years and retire with full benefits, regardless of age?"

More to the point, why are teachers the only class of citizens forced into contributing to both Social Security and a separate pension plan?

Why not ask: "how can a soldier work 20 years and retire with full benefits, regardless of age?"

Sam,

We dont retire with full benefits at 20 years, we only get 50% at 20 and it goes up 2.5% for every year thereafter. But then again, being in the military is a little more stressful that what our teacher's put up with. I have always said, police, firefighters, the military will always deserve any accolades they get. The military especially because we cant just quit when we feel like it. It is truly a job no one else wants to do..

LOL boaz LOL!!!!

What a political self egoistic hack!


"My job is the most important and strain and stressful and..........and...........and
.......!"

Wow, the pensions of all the hard working government workers in trouble?

If the private sector did business like a lot of the government they would go out of business.

Now the big pensions and high pay and great benefits are starting get stressed? Boohoo.

Scale back your workforce like the private sector. Use more efficient crews and equipment. Quit sleeping behind your desk. LOL!

You know Boaz if it weren't for Liberal Teachers and Liberal people in general You wouldn't be in the Military today paying for all of that Military Hardware that You utilize also the paycheck that You receive by being in the Military. Funny how THAT works out.

Larry Mohr

I always chuckle at those who pretend to think teachers only work five or six hours a day, nine months of the year.

If you truly believe that you were probably not quite smart enough to graduate. If you don't really believe that but pretend you do, you are dishonest.

I always chuckle at those who pretend to think teachers only work five or six hours a day, nine months of the year.
Posted by TedBaxter

You should chuckle. Considering the jobs those lazy fucks are doing, they are doing better than the smart ones placing cones for the white and yellow road stripe painters.

So do you truly believe that, Wis? If so, you ought to tell them to their faces, instead of here where you are safe.


You always make me chuckle.

Ray, these "tax sucking government workers" are the teachers that educate your kids, the cops that keep all your gold and silver safe, and the firefighters that keep your house from burning down. Their "victims" are members of society that directly benefit from their services!

Posted by bartimus


He's right. I was too narrow. I have no sympathy for you stupid morons who either work for government or who vote Republican or Democrat. You got the government you deserve - good and hard.

SNIPER IS ON WELFARE.. FUCKING HOMO....

Ray; Go fuck yourself.

I have a government retirement and YOU are paying for it. MORON...... Laughing all the way to the bank.

Ray; Go fuck yourself.

Government parasites say the nicest things.

I start collecting SS this month and I plan to work as long as practically possible. I figure it won't last much more than ten years. That's when you'll have to live on mudcakes. Laugh while you can, dimwit.

"I'll admit I don't know much about pensions but aren't they typically insured by the federal government?"

Many are, by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (the PBGC).



Which is bankrupt, and has been for years.

64.233.167.104

"But then again, being in the military is a little more stressful that what our teacher's put up with."

True story. I had an uncle, he retired as a Lieutenant Commander from the Navy and then decided he'd try teaching. Make a long story short, he ended up as an insurance adjuster.
A day in some classrooms is as stressful and as dangerous as most military people ever face. Sure some military people face combat but not most and even the ones who do can shoot back.

Cant shoot back if your dead.

Pension? What's a pension?

Welcome to the privet sector

Orange County when tax revenues were high gave the police union a sweetheart retirement package. Now the morons can't figure out how to pay for it.

all I can say is, if the Government re-nigs on those pensions for those millions of people, its going to be civil war part 2, but much worse.

Kuma

I spent the last two weeks arriving at school at 7, leaving at 6. Four of those nights i also went back to school after dinner for concerts and other activities. But, BL2 and I are just lazy fucks, according to Wisgod.

I spent the last two weeks arriving at school at 7, leaving at 6. Four of those nights i also went back to school after dinner for concerts and other activities. But, BL2 and I are just lazy fucks, according to Wisgod.

We can clearly see why our kids of this nation are uneducated, we see your posts all the time and how idiotic and out landish they are and it all makes sense.

Please tell us about midwinter break, winter break, pre break, and spring break as well as the every other week friday off for teacher conference and such.

You are lazy fucks.

Moneywar: Parenting would be the reason why our kids are uneducated. Idiots raising idiots generally raise idiots.

I don't think parents are the problem but you go ahead and think our schools are great while the parents are the problem, it will serve your cause well.

Idiots with idiot ideas, are counter productive to the future of our nation and blaming the parents for bad education is just silly.

Our school systems spend most of the time with our children in educational class rooms yet our children are not be educated.

Our children up the the 4th grade stand at the top in education when compared to the rest of the world and stand at the bottom by the time they graduate. Parents clearly are not the problem.

"yet our children are not be educated"

No shit.

As in most things simple answers don't hold the key to success. Choosing between parents and schools as the responsible party for the low achievements of students is foolish. Both share responsiblity. I don't doubt that Sam Barber is a good teacher but if a student enters his class who hasn't been properly prepared in earlier grades there is little he can do to make up for that deficiency. We have a real problem with reading levels and other basic skills which parents have to shoulder some of the responsibility for. America has millions of homes where no one ever reads a book, television is on 24/7, and parents stressed from working and raising families have little patience or energy to oversee homework. Full time mommies are a thing of the past for most kids and day care substitutes for one on one time with mom after school.
Our entire society needs to be restructured so that parenting can be as important of a job as the other low wage positions that many moms have to do to help make ends meet.
Isn't it interesting that as women entered the work force inflation and wage stagnation changed their entry from a choice to a necessity. Today many corporations can accurately claim that they need to import skilled workers because there aren't enough educated Americans. Perhaps if those corporations hadn't undercut the wages of single bread winners over the past thirty years many moms would be home and their kids would be well educated.

This is all the fault of "wmens lib". If women would have stayed home where they belong, we would not have this problem.

**** Of course not. However, I am free to emigrate if I feel the government of another country is better representative of my personal views.

Posted by JeffJ *****

.....what country would want you as an immigrant ?......

6655321 Makes a good point.

Obama supporters are all idiots, and idiots can't raise kids, because then the kids turn out to be idiots.

And thus explains why we have so many democrat idiots.

That settles it.

Kuma

"This is all the fault of "wmens lib". If women would have stayed home where they belong, we would not have this problem."

You sir are full of it. Women should have equal rights to work and be paid the same as men but FAMILIES should be able to afford to choose that one parent stay home with the kids. Today's mothers don't "choose" to work, they are forced to work because of REAGANFUCKINGOMICS.

Settle down, Danni.


Women have 3 purposes in life:

Cooking
Cleaning
Fellating

I don't know about you jef but I wasn't asked if I would approve any of the bennifit packages they got. I wasn't asked if I approved the expansion of government. I never get ask anything except why my taxes haven't been paid so they can get re-elected for all their giv-aways.

Do they get your approval jef?

Posted by Sniper

yes you did dumb ass when you elected your state representatives and officials. IF you didn't vote too bad. In most states its MANDATORY to contribute a percent of your salary that goes into the pension fund. If you pull out of the pension system then you get a pretty low rate of return for the time the money was in there.

Why the fuck should YOU be the sole decider what to do for a state of millions?

I think a good first step would be for the house and senate to forgo their pensions. Not like any of them need them.

But I think they should pay for their own health insurance too and we all know that aint never gonna happen.

Today's mothers don't "choose" to work, they are forced to work because of REAGANFUCKINGOMICS.

Posted by danni

I wish I had another profile here under which to say this, but....

Didn't women entering the workforce depress the wages in whatever job class they entered?

If a woman is willing to work for less, then that becomes the new starting wage for that job, right? As more and more women entered the workforce, fewer and fewer jobs were of a kind that could support a family of four. Is that reaganomics?

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely an equal rights kind of person, but men have never been able to choose to go to work.

HAGBARD I think I have to agree with you there. Perhaps my hatred for REagan spilled over a bit this morning. I really do despise that jerk though and may he rot in hell.

I don't think parents are the problem but you go ahead and think our schools are great while the parents are the problem, it will serve your cause well.

Idiots with idiot ideas, are counter productive to the future of our nation and blaming the parents for bad education is just silly.

Our school systems spend most of the time with our children in educational class rooms yet our children are not be educated.

Our children up the the 4th grade stand at the top in education when compared to the rest of the world and stand at the bottom by the time they graduate. Parents clearly are not the problem.

Posted by moneywar

never place blame on the parent.. always "the system"

this isn't alchemy.. you can't turn lead into gold, or shit into ambrosia but fucktards like you blame "the system" and never the fact the genetic pool needs a system shock of chlorine.

HAGBARD I think I have to agree with you there....
Posted by danni

Whew... I really was afraid of drawing your wrath with that post. Bullet dodged (*wipes sweat from brow). Thanks.

HAGBARD I think I have to agree with you there. Perhaps my hatred for REagan spilled over a bit this morning. I really do despise that jerk though and may he rot in hell.

Posted by danni

with the current cast of characters running for president I would take zombie reagan..

images.google.com

this isn't alchemy.. you can't turn lead into gold, or shit into ambrosia but fucktards like you blame "the system" and never the fact the genetic pool needs a system shock of chlorine.

Posted by Legio

SCOTUS Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famous phrase is "three generations of imbeciles is enough" and surely he is right, bu who is going to decide where that eugenics line is drawn Legio?

Reaganomics worked just fine. Well it did for those of us who were wiling to go out and work.

"Reaganomics worked just fine."

If you like deficits it worked fine.
If you like union busting it worked fine.
REaganomics was the nick name for trickle down economics which caused the HUGE MESS that the economy is in today. Spending without taxing, irresponsible belief in fairy tales of imaginary growth.

Perhaps my hatred for REagan spilled over a bit this morning. I really do despise that jerk though and may he rot in hell.

Posted by danni

Isn't it something when a former conservitive democrat is held up as the big conservitive for the republicans? Where have we lost our way?

Today's mothers don't "choose" to work, they are forced to work because of REAGANFUCKINGOMICS.

Posted by danni

Lady, you are full of it. They are forced to work so they can afford a fleet of cars, a maid, eating out three or more times a week, a house big enough to hold half of the neighborhood, thoes amoung other equaly important reasons. OH! I forgot all the vacations around the world. We have to have a regular house, a beach house, a mountain house, and a big bus to travel around the country to all of our houses.

Women should make up their minds what they want to do. Raise a family or have a big buck job. No parents at home is one of the big reasons we are having so many social problems now.

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