Libertarians depend on the rest of us to make wise decisions so that they can continue making their idiotic pompous pronouncements about free markets and such crap. Only intellectual wannabes become Libertarians, anyone with any real knowledge of history, economics, world politics can see clearly that the Libertarian Party is really just a club for folks who let their simplistic ideas of rugged individualism replace real understanding of modern economics. Hey, if it worked in 1776 why not in 2008???

Hey, if it worked in 1776 why not in 2008???

Hope you enjoy the Depression, Danni. Don't say we didn't warn you about the destructive nature of big government.

What is so damn stupid about this party is if they don't provide some type of relief American tax payers will be paying it in the huge economic down turn.

The libertarians all preach and push about this freedom and such but don't ever think about the outcomes if relief is not made.

They would let the country go down the shit hole and continue to say it will come back "eventually" for our benefit.

Idiot fucks, who are worse than the rich, they are even more greedy and that is not by money it is grounded in some messed up rational logic principle.

"Don't say we didn't warn you about the destructive nature of big government."

How about a warning about the destructive nature of privatization, tax cuts for the rich, unilateral invasions and free but not fair trade. How about some warnings about the fact that when corporations run Amerika they do so for their own benefit not the citizen's benefit. If Libertarians ever gained power the end result would be a depression of such proportions that Communism would find fertile ground in which to grow just as it did in the thirties.

Socialism is about neighbor stealing from neighbor through the agency of government. Every nation that tried it has had disastrous results. It should be as obvious as trying to balance a checkbook.

What is so damn stupid about this party is if they don't provide some type of relief American tax payers will be paying it in the huge economic down turn.

The federal government is bankrupt with debt beyond its means. It's only a matter of time before lenders cut them off. Then what are you going to do then?

If Libertarians ever gained power the end result would be a depression of such proportions that Communism would find fertile ground in which to grow just as it did in the thirties.

Who is Danni going to blame when it happens with Libertarians not in power? Because that is exactly the direction this country is going.

"{Socialism is about neighbor stealing from neighbor through the agency of government. Every nation that tried it has had disastrous results. It should be as obvious as trying to balance a checkbook."

The EU sure seems to be doing fine Ray.

"Who is Danni going to blame when it happens with Libertarians not in power?"

Those who have been in power....REpublicans.

Don't get me wrong RAy, Libertarians are harmless in a way because they are such a small party, Republicans on the other hand have already committed the economic crimes against America that could very well do as you predict and bring on a depression. What I am saying though is that it will be Democrats, like FDR, that either manage to avoid that depression or who lead the rebuilding of our economy.

"Who is Danni going to blame..."

Ahhh, Ray. You have made some very salient points...but you are aware that Danni is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, aren't you?

"but you are aware that Danni is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, aren't you?"

And you, sir, are three sheets to the wind.

"And you, sir, are three sheets to the wind."

My lord...way too early for that.

The EU sure seems to be doing fine Ray.

The EU is right behind us. Not having an expensive war machine gave them more leeway, but still they are trending towards bankruptcy.

Danni, the economic crimes come from both parties. Their only difference are on spending priorities. And even there, only in a few areas. Both parties are on a spend and borrow frenzy, frantically trying to spend us out of the recession. The problem is that's what caused the problems they think they can correct.

You have yet to grasp the enormous quantities of debt this nation has accumulated. There is no capital to rebuild the economy. It's all going towards servicing debt. Roosevelt got away with mismanaging the economy because government was much smaller then and had little debt to begin with.

Sorry to tell you, you are living in a dream world.

It's always great to see Danni bitching about how the Libertarians will ruin this country and drive it into a depression.

Who told you that Danni? Which talking points booklet gave you that little nugget of knowledge? You aren't smart enough to figure these things out on your own, so someone had to help you out with it.

Fact is, your party and the Republicans have been in control of this country for a very long time. There haven't been any libertarians in control. So how do you explain the position that we are in now? Perhaps it's time for you to suck it up and let someone else run the show for a while, eh?

You won't though. You'll bitch and complain about the Republicans driving us deeper into dept and threatening America's stability. Will you be bitching when a democrat maintains the status quo?

For some reason, I doubt it. The reasoning of "well, at least we have a liberal in the white house now." just doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for you.

Idiot fucks, who are worse than the rich, they are even more greedy and that is not by money it is grounded in some messed up rational logic principle.

Posted by moneywar

Libertarians recognize taxes for what they are, a form of theft. There's Moneywar with the mentality of a thief, calling his victims, "idiot fucks" and "greedy." He thinks he deserves to decide how you spend your money.

The rational logical principle is property protection. When government becomes the very thief you expect to be protected from, it doesn't deserve to be supported.

Few Floridians were complaining about the free market when the prices were going up, up, and away.

Guess what? It works both ways. And the fact is, had the government not been so involved in pumping up housing (Community Reinvestment Act, HUD, FHM, FNM) you wouldn't have seen the bubble appear at all. Now the people who bought at the very top, or refinanced to pay off credit cards, which they promptly ran back up again--are looking for Washington to create some more mojo, to keep the wheel spinning.

And it won't work. You can't borrow your way out of debt, and housing is a lousy investment historically. And the government is made up of a bunch of morons. So you're on your own, which is exactly where you should have been in the first place.

RisR just coincidentally left out the Fed and Alan Greenspan who held interest rates extremely low to make the Bush 1.5 Trillion Dollar TAx Cut for the rich seem viable.
"You can't borrow your way out of debt" is exactly true, taxes are what will pay down the debt.

"Socialism is about neighbor stealing from neighbor through the agency of government."

Pathetic repitition of Libertarian dogma, incompatible with a population of 350 million.
Simplistic slogans and talking points don't impress me much.

The way forward:
1. Tax the rich.
2. Tax the rich.
3. Tax the rich.

What do y'all think brought us out of the Depression of 1929??
Taxation of the rich.

What do y'all think brought us out of the Depression of 1929??
Taxation of the rich.

Danni - your ignorance of economics and history is near complete. I even wonder if you know how to balance a checkbook.

When counting ALL federal obligations, Washington is so badly in the red that if they taxed every citizen 100% of what they earn, it wouldn't be enough to cover what they spend.

The rich can afford the influence to have tax laws adjusted in their favor. Though on paper we have a graduated income tax, in practice it's close to a flat tax. All you have is the pitifully weak vote that gives the illusion of control.

And who do you think is going to bring us the Depression of 2010? Dupes like you and Money who believed they could bend government to steal for them. Your selfishness blinds to to the fact that a government that steals FOR you, also steals FROM you. You and your type are the losers in this game of rob Peter to pay Paul.

Hey Ray You aren't one of these Psueod Intellectuals who believes Taxing is a very bad thing and if You are paying taxes You are just part of the big grand conspiracy with the Federal Government to rob people blind?? Is that what You really and truly believe??

Larry Mohr

"What do y'all think brought us out of the Depression of 1929??"

WWII

Hey Ray You aren't one of these Psueod Intellectuals who believes Taxing is a very bad thing and if You are paying taxes You are just part of the big grand conspiracy with the Federal Government to rob people blind?? Is that what You really and truly believe??


So it's not much of a stretch for the government to participate in the worst "attack" on this nation since Pearl Harbor, but for the government to be in the business of keeping the populous poor and down-trodden is a gigantic, unbelievable leap?


What do y'all think brought us out of the Depression of 1929??
Taxation of the rich.


Reading the Revisionists' History of the United States again, are you?

"What do y'all think brought us out of the Depression of 1929??"

WWII

Posted by Zatoichi


Let's bomb Iran. That will cause WWIII to start and we can get out of this depression.

Larry

If taxes had a rational connection between what we pay and what we receive, I would be all for them. The problem is that as long as taxes are confiscatory, tax consumers have full license to spend as they see fit without regard to your values.

No conspiracy. That word presumes the parties involved know they are dishonest. It's more of a cultural ignorance as your retort illustrates.

I pay taxes because of the penalties involved if I don't. That's why it is larcenous. No different than a thug confronting you with a gun, offering you a choice between your money or your life. If the thug had been doing this from the time you remember, you would be used to the extortion.

Governments always fail when its citizens give it full license to lie, steal, persecute and murder. It has all the tools it needs to destroy us, and it is.

It only works twice.
And the first time wasn't too hot by '29.

Let's bomb Iran. That will cause WWIII to start and we can get out of this depression.

Posted by member2586

Don't think that those madmen won't try it. Historically, it's proven way to divert the masses' attention from their economic failures.

Let's bomb Iran. That will cause WWIII to start and we can get out of this depression

We have to wait till they get nukes first so they can nuke Isreal and THAT will start WW3

Why do bailouts always go to mega-firms like Bear-Stearns and those bankers losing their shirts due to the mortgage crisis? Why do the bailouts never go to the little guy? Oh that's right. I forgot. Because Republitards only believe in personal responsibility when it doesn't affect their profit margin.

Simplistic slogans and talking points don't impress me much.

1. Tax the rich.
2. Tax the rich.
3. Tax the rich.


Hmmm... Danni, you you really believe that the rich in this country are so rich because of free market capatalism? Or could it really have to do with the corporatist ties between our government and corporations? Are you naive as to how much back scratching really goes on between the two groups? That is fascism, not free market capatalism.

So your solution to everything is to raise taxes.. I have challenged you time and again as to why you (and most others here) NEVER advocate cutting spending.. Why is it that you can't see the inexorable we have dug ourselves into? Why is it that you believe taxing the shit out of rich people (or anybody else) will either pay off our debts or encourage economic growth?

There haven't been any libertarians in control. So how do you explain the position that we are in now? Perhaps it's time for you to suck it up and let someone else run the show for a while, eh?

Damn straight.. We have tried the left way and the right way.. They are two different paths that essentially lead to the same destination. People like Danni will be disillusioned that everything is better while a dem is running the show without ever considering that it took both parties and a shitload of sheeple to get us where we are.

Moder8 . Your knowledge of finance is appaulling. The little guy was directly affected by the bailout of Bear Stearns. Bear Stearns had $13 Trillion in Derivative Contracts, Perhaps you would have liked all these contracts to have been unwound and dumped on the market. I am sure that would have done wonders for Americans Pension Funds and 401K.

Let['s tax the rich and punish them for working their asses off. They studied hard to get into college, then went to college with the help of student loans. Now that they have finally worked hard and long hours most of their adult life let's punish them and give entitlements to all those idiots who went to work at Target after high school and very sought to better their economic situation because it was too hard.

Why do bailouts always go to mega-firms like Bear-Stearns and those bankers losing their shirts due to the mortgage crisis? Why do the bailouts never go to the little guy? Oh that's right. I forgot. Because Republitards only believe in personal responsibility when it doesn't affect their profit margin.

Posted by moder8

Ummm.... Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Dems in charge of Both houses of congress. The President can only propose a bill or a budget. Congress is the only body that can both propose and pass bills and budgets. In order for a fedral bailout to occure congress has to approve it. If the President vetos a bill Congress can over rule it.

There is not a warm bucket of piss difference between the dems and the republicans in congress.

There is not a warm bucket of piss difference between the dems and the republicans in congress.

Now there is a nugget of truth..

The EU sure seems to be doing fine Ray.

God I wish you liberal, EU loving pussies would just MOVE there and leave the U.S. to those who really love it...

" have challenged you time and again as to why you (and most others here) NEVER advocate cutting spending.."

Because government spending raises wages. WAges are what makes the economy work. You seem to think that revenue gained through taxation disappears. It doesn't, it reemerges into the economy through spending. I don't really care what the government spends it on it still energizes the economy. When taxation is too low wealth just concentrates because there is no reason to make investments which generate jobs and MORE WEALTH. Why was the largest middle class in the history of the world created during a time of incredibly high income tax???? Because taxes levied by a Republic are not the same as taxes levied by a monarchy. The taxes levied in our nation do not sit in a vault, they are used to create infrastructure which empowers entrepreneurs to start businesses never before dreamed of. How many tax dollars went into the creation of the internet (thank you Al Gore)?
Now tell me that those dollars were wasted.
How many dollars went into the creation of the Interstate Highway System.
Now tell me those dollars were wasted.
How many dollars went into NASA???

Puhleeeeeeez. Taxation of the wealthy creates more wealth, more jobs, more everything.

The idea that low taxation, small government, free trade will make us safe, prosperous and leaders of the world is disproven by the very things that did make us safe, prosperous and the leaders of the world. It's like you want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Wait for it Danni..........wait,..........
..just wait for it. Some reporightie will be here in a few to take your good post all the way to some unlogic extreme.