According to what I heard last night, the convention will be held around the time of the 45th anniversay of the MLK I have a dream speech. I am confiden that by then Obama will still have more delegates, both pledged and SDs, than Clintons. I don't think that the Dems will have the, well, to borrow a phrase from a Clinton supporter, "testicular fortitude" to deny Obama the nomination and give it to a less-qualified white candidate. Imagine how alienated many minorities who have been discriminated against while job searching, for example, will feel.

Don't let the door hit your testicles on the way out Hillary! LOL!

Nice job on the editing RCADE thanx.

Maybe Hillary's thinking of 2012.

Take a look at the Pew Research Poll from last week. The national trends are shocking. In March, Barack was tied with Hillary among white voters who are Democrats or lean that way. Now he is down sixteen!

With working class whites, the gap is more devastating. Hillary's ten point advantage from March is now at forty! These trends continued in Tuesday's vote. This is no joke -- it represents an electability crisis.

Barack has become a niche candidate. If you're black, rich or went to an Ivy League school, then you're definitely in his camp. College professors love him. College kids love him. People who wax nostalgic for the good old days of blowing up buildings would swear off ammonium nitrate forever to see him win. And there are many who miss the explosive sixties, just not enough of them to make Barack into a viable general election candidate.

But with other groups that we're told are key Obama constituencies, the numbers are also sobering. Barack's six point lead among those making more than $50,000 per year has become a five point deficit. The college educated, a critical base of support, only favor him by five.

Every signal says the party would be better off with Hillary, and the natural move would be to embrace her and abandon Barack. After all, the process still allows a shift. Why should Barack get the nomination just because the Reverend Wright story didn't unfold until late in the primary season?

The choice between Barack and Hillary is a scary one for Democrats, but it would be easy if they just trusted the process. It's somewhat confusing why they've allowed themselves to be trapped in this box of needing to have Obama be the winner. Is it because of the cash that Barack has showered upon superdelegates?

nomimate him please!!!!

I think the Hillary crew knew that they were not going to win based on non-super delegates for a long time. Her strategy was simply to stay viable and wait for some disasterous information on Obama. I think she already has that with Wright (not only be a racist and Obama clueless) but more importantly saying that Obama is a politician that will say anything to get elected. Rezko's trial is just heating up and we have already uncovered a material lie by Obama whether the press wants to run with it or not. Hillary is just waiting and biding her time.

Obama is already so damaged that he is unelectable - a lot of Hillary supporters already see that but the lockstep Obama and black racists crowds refuse to see the truth. If Obama does not self destruct in the next 2 months due to some disasterous new info, he will get killed in the general by McCain. Dems will be looking back fondly on Dukakis after this election...

Na Na Na Hay Hay Hay Goodbye Hellary. Say Hello to Kitchenaid Pyrex Rubbermaid Roper for Me to name a few. You're done.

Larry Mohr

Well said scooter28054. You are 100% correct here and the numbers will get much worse for Obama in the general. With whites and working class people already fleeing from him it will be a landslide in the general. The sad thing is that McCain is not a desireable candidate, but he will still pull 30%+ of Hillary's voters when it is all said and done and the Republican base will mobilize once again to get him elected. The Dems should be very nervous that the vast majority of votes for Obama came from states the Dems will not win the general even if they ran Jesus Christ himself (a lot of people won't vote for a Jew). Dean's '50 State Strategy' will be seen as an utter failure as the Dems get crushed in electoral college votes.

but more importantly saying that Obama is a politician that will say anything to get elected.

----

I hope you are not implying that Hillary doesn't do the same. That would be crazy talk.

It looks like the dems are on a self destruct road with their presidental canidate just like the reps did with all their congressional seats.

Might be a good deal, dem congress and rep president. Might keep them both on track.

The choice between Barack and Hillary is a scary one for Democrats, but it would be easy if they just trusted the process. It's somewhat confusing why they've allowed themselves to be trapped in this box of needing to have Obama be the winner.

How crazy of us to expect the person with the most elected delegates to be the winner. It would be so much better to let party insiders simply appoint the person they think is the most electable.

It would be so much better to let party insiders simply appoint the person they think is the most electable.
Posted by rcade

How reasonable. I knew you'd come around to seeing the light.
~Seaton "Don't Call Me Shirley" Begger

-How crazy of us to expect the person with the most elected delegates to be the winner. It would be so much better to let party insiders simply appoint the person they think is the most electable.

Sooo, mighty Libs wanting the elitist back room SDs to pick the winner instead of having the pledged delegates already selected by FL-MI be counted.

Pretty pathetic, really.

-How crazy of us to expect the person with the most elected delegates to be the winner. It would be so much better to let party insiders simply appoint the person they think is the most electable.

Sooo, mighty Libs wanting the elitist back room SDs to pick the winner instead of having the pledged delegates already selected by FL-MI be counted.

Pretty pathetic, really.

Corky: Clinton had her shot last night and didn't get it done. Florida and Michigan have nothing at all to do with her losing North Carolina and winning a squeaker in Indiana when she needed a "game-changer."

Sorry Corky but Florida and Michigan broke the rules and must pay the consequenses. Hell even Hellary agreed to not count florida and michigan till She got Her tits in the proverbial wringer and now is behaving like a spoilt child that didn't get their way. Funny Dat Be

Larry Mohr

Dems wish this cat fight would end, but we will fight to see it continue. Hillary would have lost Indiana if it had not been for our operatives.

SSG Thom, Operation Chaos Company Commander

Sooo, mighty Libs wanting the elitist back room SDs to pick the winner instead of having the pledged delegates already selected by FL-MI be counted.

Pretty pathetic, really.


Funny, Clinton's backers like McAuliffe said the MIFL delegates shouldn't be counted until after they realized that's the only chance Hillary had. I guess they weren't counting on the Limburger vote, which gave her a "victory" in Indiana. Do you seriously believe that if Obama had carried those two states, Hillary would be crying for a 50 state count? They'll be seated, just not with the count Hillary wants. Time she set her ego aside and cut a deal to be #2 on the ticket.
It's better to be Veep, than Jane lieberman.

Youve definitely gone over the hill, Rogers. Into Ariana and Tingle-thighs and Matt Drudge Land.

Ah, what short memories some people have.

Merely 3 weeks ago Obama looked at the polls and said that she would win PA and he, being 30 points ahead, would win NC, and that Indiana was "the tie-breaker".

Two weeks ago, after PA, Indiana where he had been leading was a dead heat and he was ahead by 24 in NC.

What's happened since? She shaved 10 points off his lead in NC, and won the dead heat "tie-breaker" in Indiana.

Next up? Double digit wins for her in WV and KY.

More evidence of who can carry the blue-collar vote, and who would lose in the general.

But seriously, you prefer party insiders, as you say, choosing the nominee instead of pledged delegates already chosen by FL-MI?

You prefer party insiders votes counting, but not your own?

You prefer the candidate who made sure your vote would not count by not supporting a DNC approved re-vote?

I'm with the majority here. Go, O'Bama. But phase Hillary out with honor. She might have been the first female president, still can be if the corporations see Barack as really threatening to change anything substantial. Veep, supreme court, senate majority leader or a cabinet post of her choosing., Erect a statue to her and unite to oust the Grand Ugly Party from power in fall. herm

SHE`S GOING TO LOSE BECAUSE SHE FIGHTS LIKE A GIRL. SHE HAS TO FIGHT LIKE A MAN....

Doh...didn't close the tag.

What's happened since? She shaved 10 points off his lead in NC, and won the dead heat "tie-breaker" in Indiana.

So what? She needed a bigger win in Indiana and could've turned the race on its head completely with an upset in North Carolina. It didn't happen for her.

At some point in any political campaign, you have to set aside the spin and look at the math. Math appears to have caught up to Clinton. I do not see how she can survive all of the "presumptive nominee" talk coming from the chattering classes today.

Personally, I don't understand how Clinton got this far before the mainstream media declared a winner. She didn't have any real chance to overturn the pledged delegate leader after Pennsylvania, and the popular vote was a longshot at best.

But she made it to Tuesday as a viable candidate, and the results she needed didn't happen.

I bet Hillary would want Obama to lose in the general election so she could get an earlier shot in 2012.

Hillary First, Party Second, Country Third.
She has her priorities straight.

Funniest quote was this morning, not sure who on the Shillary camp (it was radio, after all)....
"West Virginia is a critical key battleground state"

West Virginia? HAHAHAHA!!! OOOOOHHH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yep, the general election will all key off of....West Virginia!!!


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How many times have they done that already?

But, but, Rogers..... you didn't answer my questions.....

"But seriously, you prefer party insiders, as you say, choosing the nominee instead of pledged delegates already chosen by FL-MI?

You prefer party insiders votes counting, but not your own?

______You prefer the candidate who made sure your vote would not count by not supporting a DNC approved re-vote?"____________



-But she made it to Tuesday as a viable candidate, and the results she needed didn't happen.

She can still end up with the popular vote and Obama without enough delegates to win.

I understand that some Libs are SO Obamanated that they think he can win the general election without blue-collar Dems or Hispanics.... without Florida or Michigan or Ohio or PA, but surely you aren't one of them?

Ah yes, west virginia!!! That bastion of intellectual thought and philosophical reflection. You know there are some hillary voters there. Uneducated, white, fat, toothless and they still believe unions are relevant.

I wonder what they will do when Robert Byrd stops pumping 90% of the highway appropriations into that state.

- I do not see how she can survive all of the "presumptive nominee" talk coming from the chattering classes today.


You musta missed Iowa and NH and Super Tuesday and Ohio and Texas and PA.

The MSM has her dead before each one, just like now.

When, pray-tell, have they ever been right in this race?

Why do You continue to spout that lie that Hellary won Texas?? Texas is Obama's "Baby" Oh and what about all of those other States Obama won?? Don't they count for anything?? Funny dat Be in spades.

Larry Mohr

To those who write off Obama, if he becomes Democratic candidate to be beaten by McCain in the general election don't jump to conclusion for some of these reasons.
1. Wait for the debate, I believe Obama would be stronger and come out more presidental in a debate
2. Four more years of Bush. With GWB popularity at a all time low, the democrats need to make McCain look like he would follow the foot steps of GWB.
3. McCain lack of knowledge. He even said he not good with economics, use that against him.
4. Character. Ok he was a war hero, but I know the Democrats will do this, look into his past his first wife waiting five year for him to return home from Viet Nam her car accident and McCain dating while he was still living with her,he come off as cold and not caring and not a very good Family man.

Time she set her ego aside and cut a deal to be #2 on the ticket.
It's better to be Veep, than Jane lieberman.

Posted by northguy3

Ah this is grand, we all get to electioneer !

Including these Limbaugh oriented righties who insist on Billary being the nominee.

If I were Obama (I'd be a young black man instead of an old white guy) and I'd choose a respected running mate.... not a person(s) despised by well over half of the electorate.

And I'd say thanks, but no thanks to the Clintons campaigning for me.

After the volumes of dirt shed by the Clintons, who needs them ?

If America can't bear the idea of a charismatic young black president then we will surely end up with Bush III and endless GD war.

She can still end up with the popular vote and Obama without enough delegates to win.

You're dreaming. Obama was winning more uncommitted superdelegates than Clinton *before* Russert and the rest of the media bigwigs declared the race over.

Now, superdelegates are facing the reality that if they don't join Obama soon, he'll get to the magic number without them -- and thus owe him no favors.

She's toast.

I understand that some Libs are SO Obamanated that they think he can win the general election without blue-collar Dems or Hispanics.... without Florida or Michigan or Ohio or PA, but surely you aren't one of them?

Clinton's lost black voters and college-educated voters, two groups that have been strong parts of the Democratic vote.

The demographic game you're playing -- where the only voters and states who matter are the ones who back Clinton -- is just as phony as Clinton's slam against elite economists.

Merely 3 weeks ago Obama looked at the polls and said that she would win PA and he, being 30 points ahead, would win NC, and that Indiana was "the tie-breaker".

Didn't Hillary say something about NC being a game changer? Well, the game has changed. Instead of whining about not winning, get in there and help Obama win. Convince all of your supporters that McCain is not an option, and neither is sitting home. Tell them that most of the negative stuff you said about Obama was just a campaign strategy, your only hope to win, and not the gospel truth. I know: tell them you misspoke, are only human, etc. Tell them you love the democratic party and this country and that so does Obama.

Most of the 'Big' states Clinton touts as her reason for the nomination go Democratic anyway.

When voters face Bush 3.0 or Obama, Obama will win huge.

Current party identification favors the Dems by almost 20%

oops sorry forgot to turn off italics

RC -- I believe as you do. The next couple of days will see the screws turn very tihtly against Ms. Clinton. The graciousness with which the Clintons take this will seriously affect how well the DEMs do in November.

As I said all along, it it tough when a highly regarded politician campaigns for a family member against others in his or her own party. When Mario Cuomo began pulling for his son Andrew, it was as if the rest of the party loyalists were being asked to re-prove their loyalty all over again by backing the former governor's son. It was even worse with Hillary and Bill -- Both could have been "kingmakers" during the campaign, by employing their influence judiciously, but they severely alienated the independent DEMs this year.

If the Clinton's do a whole lot of nice talk, and start whacking away at the Rovian politics of the GOP, they might elevate their stature. If they act petty and revengeful, they will find the independent DEM contingent very much opposed to their style and message.

The only ones who made sure Florida voters were not counted is the Florida Democratic Leaders. THAT is who You should be bitching to.

Larry Mohr

Keep the italics, Gal, They are as pretentious as you, and almost as obnoxiously condescening.

Corky,

How were the rules set going into this Primary regarding MIFL?

Why should they now be changed?

Do you really expect us to believe you and Hillary would be for counting these states if the situation was reversed?

This is getting sad.

Corky,

According to Chuck Todd even with FL and MI counted, she is unlikely to win the popular vote. It will be close, less than a hundred thousand but no cigar. No one who is a fair broker can honestly say MI should be counted as is. No one. Wolfson claims Obama chose not to be on the ballot because he knew he would lose there, which is, of course, an unmitigated lie. How low are the Clintonites willing to go for a victory? How dumb do they think voters are? If Hillary doesn't watch it, she won't just lose this nomination, she will lose her NY senate seat as well.

Soory people but white blue collar men from Pennsylvani, Ohio, and Michigan are never going to vote for a black man who wants slave reparations

Soory people but white blue collar men from Pennsylvani, Ohio, and Michigan are never going to vote for a black man who wants slave reparations

Does Obama want slave reparations?

I haven't heard that.

Keep the italics, Gal, They are as pretentious as you, and almost as obnoxiously condescening.

Ah, gee, Corky, the next thing you know you'll be telling me I'm a latte drinking elitist. Sticks and stones, buddy, sticks and stones.

sad

No, sad is when the DNC approves a re-vote, but one candidate declines to enfranchise voters because he fears he will lose a fair vote.


Now, that's sad. Almost as sad as some said disenfranchised voters supporting the candidate who fucked them over.

Sad like wanting the party insiders to decide the election instead of already chosen FL-MI delegations from certified state elections.

"never going to vote for a black man who wants slave reparations"

Good to hear the people with whom you're so in touch will be voting for Obama.

(Get a clue: He's never said he favors slave reparations.)

The Michigan/Florida stuff is a deflection, Corky. The resolution of those states had nothing to do with last night's vote.

At least in the fall, Hillary won't be blamed for his gaffes and his friends.

So you concede the race is over?

If Obama has some candidacy-killing scandal in his future, Clinton would've found and used it by now. She wants the presidency more than anybody.

Personally, I think Obama has as much chance to beat McCain as Clinton would have. And using it against the first viable black presidential candidate is just as offensive as using Hillary's gender as a reason not to nominate her. Obama's not the only one who has to defeat prejudice. A lot of dumbshits won't vote for a female president either.

Corky,

It is over. She lost. If not, by what criteria are you going by that she should be the nominee?

Now the question arises. Will you vote for Obama in the general election?

Sooo, mighty Libs wanting the elitist back room SDs to pick the winner instead of having the pledged delegates already selected by FL-MI be counted.

Pretty pathetic, really.


Posted by Corky at 2008-05-07 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Howard Dean was on the Daily Show saying that the fucktards of FL & MI will have their delegates seated after all.

p.s. Using the word 'elitist' to describe anything you don't like makes you sound stupid.

"Does Obama want slave reparations?

I haven't heard that.

Posted by BenFranklinn at 2008-05-07 02:13 PM"

No, but when has TIMBCI been right before?

The hope for the Clinton camp was that by seating the delegates from Michigan and Florida, it could substantially cut into Obama's pledged delegate lead and overtake him in the popular vote. Neither looks possible now -- even if the campaign get the delegates seated based on the voting from those primaries. The campaign hopes it could get the pledged lead under 100 or close to it by seating those delegates the way it would want, spokesman Phil Singer said.

The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee on May 31 "will consider two challenges," Singer said. "We believe RBC will seat those delegates."

But Singer acknowledged that neither of the two challenges the RBC will take up calls for delegates from Michigan and Florida to be seated in the way the campaign would most like -- with a net of 58 delegates. (Currently, by the NBC count, Obama leads by 166 pledged delegates. So even with the 58 delegates, Clinton would not get under 100. Potentially with blowouts in West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico, it's possible.)

Lest we forget that in January Hillary said Michigan and Florida won't count anyway.

That's right, AU. Guess she didn't mean it, huh?

I love it when in their most masturbatory fantasizing the loonies here suggest that neither Clinton nor O'Bama could win in November. The my-guy-could-beat-your-guy rhetoric is fun but futile. The fact of the matter is that either Dem would win in a landslide over whatever the Party Of Bush puts up as an alternative, because the election will be a referendum on Bush.. herm

-The Michigan/Florida stuff is a deflection, Corky. The resolution of those states had nothing to do with last night's vote.

I will take that as a "No Comment" on my very legit question as to why you would support a candidate who refused to endorse a DNC approved re-vote in Florida, thereby negating your own vote.

Sacrifice to Holy Obama, one can only assume.

But she made it to Tuesday as a viable candidate, and the results she needed didn't happen.

Posted by rcade at 2008-05-07 12:37 PM

exactly... she got there using her nasty kitchen sink scorched earth Rovian tactics and they didn't work.

She got there using all the muscle of the Clinton Machine she could muster but it wasn't enough.

Obama has held out against them all. There is something there that is different this time.

The Republicans are now faced with something new. Something they were not quite prepared for.

We have a Nominee that will totally wipe the Republicans off the map...that North Carolina Speech was awesome!

Hillary best cut a deal now.

Somehow, I get the vague impression that Corky will not be voting this November. Having over-extended himself in support of one candidate, Corky apparently would rather have a rival candidate from within his Party(whose views he mostly agrees with)lose the general election, even if it means having a candidate (whose views he mostly disagrees with) from a rival Party win.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Talking about not knowing what one is talking about....

Obama wannbe Tom Daschle said last night that the votes of 2.3 million people in FL and MI were a, "moot point".

As long as that is the case, my vote for Obama is also a, "moot point".

Clinton said that the Michigan vote "won't count for anything." (New Hampshire Public Radio 10/11/07).

Why is the supposedly Obama-loving media letting her off so easily as she's flip-flopped on this?

"Sad like wanting the party insiders to decide the election"

Isn't that Hillary's only hope, Corky? It's ok for Hillary to win by SDs but not Obama?

And what's with this popular vote shit? It's an inaccurate measurement to begin with as there is no way to factor in caucus attendance (which would undoubtedly favor Obama) and is completely irrelevant anyway as the system selects the nominee by delegate number alone.

Face it, Hillary is finished.

Corky--seriously consider voting for McCain in the general--if Hillary is not the Dem candidate.

Obama will not win the general..

Murphy

The democrats are the ones who are finished. Obama is not electable.

He already lost Florida before it started. Doomed. He doesn't have the white vote. Doomed.
Every friend the guy has hates the USA is a radical, an ex terrorist, or a race peddler. DOOMED.

Doomed, doomed, doomed.

No chance. Stupid democrats. Should have went with Hillary.

Don;t worry, ill be back to mock your stupid asses every step of your loss.

Kuma

"Doomed." Say it often enough, K, and at least YOU will believe it. herm

Kuma is one funny mo-fo.

Were any of these pundits some of the same ones who called Hillary the "inevitable candidate"?

Who is going to tell HIllary?

They are talking and some are turning blue in the face and --oh--oh--No--I don't hear Hillary saying good luck and good night..


Murphy

You never get everybody.

These blue collar "working class" whites are the "Reagan" repugs. Screw them. They are about as loyal as Leiberman.

A few people here are forgetting a couple of key facts: in MI in particular ALL candidates, including Hellary, agreed that those delegates would not count. All the HONORABLE ones took their names off the ballot. Hellary did not. And with only her name on the ballot, no surprise she won and now wants those delegates counted.
But do we need yet another prez who changes the rules in the middle of the game to benefit them? The fact that she left her name on the ballot tells you she knew in advance what she was going to do, and how slimy is that?

As for our Dem nominee Obama and how he'll fare against Bush III (McCain), a lot of people seem to think they know things based on how he's done in
certain states against Clinton. Well, Obama v Clinton is a very different race from Obama v McCain. The general election is many months away and once it's down to Obama v McCain and people start focusing on that, McCain's weaknesses will be under the spotlight just as Obama's have been for the past months.

Obama's got his weak points including that many people in this country are still ignorant enough to be worried about the color of his skin, or what the pastor at his church said at one point or another (as opposed to just looking at Obama's record....), but McCain is a train wreck waiting to happen for the Republicans. They'll try
their usual dirty tricks, but nothing will untie McCain from the administration that's led our economy from a surplus to the ditch, and into this country's least popular war EVER, so he's going down as fast as Bush would if he were able to run again.

This will be a landslide for Obama, and if we DO elect someone like McCain to carry on the policies of this pathetic Bush administration? Wow. We're even dumber than I thought.

Obama-Webb 08