We need to declare war on oil.

Here's how such a "war" might work. The president and his administration would have emergency powers to develop, design, create, and implement alternative energy sources -- just like the president can do during a full blown war. And since this would be a war, the trial lawyers and environmental extremists wouldn't be allowed to bring millions of dollars of time-consuming law suits to stop the implementation of these energy sources.

Here's just some of the areas the U.S. could focus on:

Nuclear energy. Its increased use could dramatically lower America's dependence on oil. France gets about 75 percent of its electricity from nuclear power, according to the latest statistics. As of June 2007, the production cost of nuclear power stood at 1.72 cents per kilowatt-hour -- compared to 9.63 cents for petroleum.

It's environmentally friendly and we first led the world in this technology. Yet no new nuclear power plants have come on line in the U.S. since February 1996.

Geothermal energy. You may not know this, but Iceland gets 99 percent of its electricity from geothermal means.

Drill deep into the earth and you get heat. Pour water down the hole and it vaporizes to steam. Steam can turn turbines to create electricity. Advocates say that a fully developed geothermal energy program in the U.S. could provide all American energy needs 2,000 times over.

Geothermal plants already provide thousands of megawatts of electricity to Northern California and Nevada.

Wind power. This natural form of energy also is feasible. American wind energy installations currently produce enough electricity on a typical day to power the equivalent of more than 2.5 million homes, but the potential exists for far more wind power production. Pickens says whole sections of the Midwest could harvest enormous energy from such wind farms.

Coal liquification. This process converts coal into petroleum. Coal liquification been used for some time, but it's costly. Already, the U.S. Air Force is increasingly using synthetic fuels made of coal derivatives, which are far cheaper than jet fuel.

Our government could back developing new technologies to make this work on a mass scale. The U.S. has an abundance of coal. U.S. recoverable reserves are estimated at 275 billion tons, the most in the world.

We need to work at every level to end our oil dependency. Congress needs to pass tax and other incentives for companies to research and develop new energy sources. At the same time, Congress has to incentivize consumers to help create the market for alternative energy.

Make no mistake -- if we waged this war, we all would win.

How do you expect two oilmen to declare a war on their cash cow?

Politicians on both sides of the proverbial aisle have dropped the ball on this for decades. And it's not as if anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence couldn't have seen it coming.

A failure of leadership on the part of the many in order to meet the interests of the few. Sounds like a plutocracy.

you have all of the left wing nuts protesting the development of Nuclear power for decades, the safest most cost effective source of energy we can find.

What do they want? BIO-fuel , the silly overly-expensive production of which, has already tripled food prices. That's what a brianless, Al Gore driven knee-jerk reaction will get you.

OH YEAH BTW because of the libs- we cannot drill in a tiny segment of ANWAR because of the caribou. Uselss bag of bones horned cows that don't even contribute to the food chain.

So now the libs want to say " OH TOO BAD GEORGE BUSH didn't do anything after 9-11 about energy!

You all will not rest until you have completely destroyed my country's economic system.

"You all will not rest until you have completely destroyed my country's economic system."

Yer a fucking idiot, fredo.

Go have another pina colada.

On topic, it must be a cold day in hell...kerrin posted something that actually makes sense.

In 30 years, computers have gone from the size of a bedroom to the size of a cell phone.
Nearsightedness is a thing of the past for most, due to LASIK.
Polio was cured long ago.
Yet...in over 100 years of it's existence, the technology still doesn't exist to produce a viable alternative for the internal combustion engine?
Yeah, right. Anyone that doesn't believe the oil industry pulls the strings in this government just isn't paying attention.

There is little question that America is defending its interests in the Middle East largely because of oil.

Has it finally become that obvious? Next thing you know someone on the Right will say Carter had it correct!

I remember watching Jimmy Carter's 1977 televised speech in which he said dealing with America's oil dependency as "the moral equivalent of war."

Dave, not just a cold day, hell just froze over.

Stanford Oshevky brought us new battery technology. It made the electric car not just viable, but cheaper to operate at current gas prices. GM with Exxon and later Chevron bought his company and took all the car siz batteries off the market. Free markets are an illusion. The American middle class is being milked because the poor have no money and the rich get a free ride.

Awh....such flattery Davieboy.

Now...don't go all mushy on me .
Here ...I'll set you up so you can throw another barb.

I put almost all the blame on the wacky liberal lefties for our predicament. The rest goes to our pandering corrupt pols .

It's hard to declare war on oil when it's $30 a barrel. At $120, suddenly it gains political currency. Fifteen years ago, SUV's didn't exist; now there are 180 million of them. Gas isn't coming down far from here, nor should it. But it does give the country finally an economic reason to overhaul our energy system.

No real reform of our energy policies can be complete without including nuclear power, but the enviros have denied even an approach to conversation. But with $4 gasoline, we've got a shot. The economics of nuclear are just so obvious, and those of ethanol so disastrous, that I'm surprised anyone takes these granola-munching enviros seriously about anything. But there ya go. We'll see whether $4 a gallon brings the Sierra Club crowd any closer to reality than they've been for 30 years. My bet? No. Ten years from NOW, we'll be complaining of $12 gasoline, bemoaning the lack of nuclear plants to meet our soaring energy demand, while Birkenstock-clad poseurs will still be telling us the real effort should be in conservation. And we'll go nowhere.

"I put almost all the blame on the wacky liberal lefties for our predicament."

From the article:

The tab for the Iraq war hovers around the $1 trillion mark and grows at a clip of at least $12 billion a month. The Congressional Budget Office projects that the cost through 2017, including hidden costs such as veterans' benefits, could total $2.4 trillion.

There is little question that America is defending its interests in the Middle East largely because of oil.

Ehen even Newsmax finally gets it....
And RIR, how do you fit a reactor into your Ford Focus?

Build me a car that doesn't run need gas and oil, but also doesn't look queer and you'll have the "war" won...

Sticking with these fruity-ass cars like the Prius, or telling everyone who has a car now to ride a train with disgusting bums and crack whores and Dethspud isn't going to work.

Its all about cars... replace what they run on and everything will be fine.

Nutcase,
Exactly...and people defend that sort of thing all the time as if the oil companies somehow have our best interests in my mind when they do that crap.

Kerrin,
Let's not leave out Hillary...her gas tax giveaway that will net us $0.30/day in savings will be paid for by the windfall profits tax that Bush will never sign and the congress is too impotent to override.

"Pols and liberals."

Yeah...we all know how much those damn libruls wanted this war.

Idiot.

"when you tax something, you get less of it, but Mr. Obama seems to think he can repeal the laws of economics. We tried this windfall profits scheme in 1980. It backfired. The Congressional Research Service found in a 1990 analysis that the tax reduced domestic oil production by 3% to 6% and increased oil imports from OPEC by 8% to 16%. Mr. Obama nonetheless pledges to lessen our dependence on foreign oil, which he says "costs America $800 million a day." Someone should tell him that oil imports would soar if his tax plan becomes law."


Yet they worked during WW1, WW2 and Korea-taxing the excess profits. Of course, that was during wartime and the GOPpers will tell you this is shoe-shopping time, except when we have to be petrified by the war against guys in skirts and sandals somewhere in the ME.

As with everything else, including the so called mandated universal health care issue, a war on oil looks good on paper, sounds good in the 1 minute political sound bite but, is little more than pissing up a rope.

You cannot go around the economic reality of supply and demand. And, there is the cost benefit of the product too. Once the price of a gallon of gas reaches the point where it becomes PROFITABLE to develop other energy sources, it will be done. The ethanol debate is a good example. When the price of corn was low it was a good investment for those investors because the govmnt subsidized ethanol production and distribution. BUT, now that the price of a bushel of corn is about $10 it is no longer economical so the plants seem to be closing down. (Had the govmnt not become involved with their subsidies then ethanol probably would not have been an option. Govmnt interference provided a FALSE solution to a real problem but only in the short term.)

So, as another poster said, when the price of a gallon of gas reaches $12 a gallon other alternatives will surface, become reality and gas will be replaced. (A compressed air car is a good example. And, when the price of the HYBRID cars comes down out of the ozone layer, they too will be a good alternative.)

In the meantime, how do you propose to "Declare war on oil?" Price goes down and demand goes up and more gas is pumped and supply goes down and because of this simple fact, prices all of a sudden go up.

Tax me and I take one tractor out of the field, change my strategies and possibly forward contract or hedge a little. I understand the process and in the end, the higher tax on my crop resulted in fewer bushels and because demand went up while the supply was down, I made money. (Govmnt needs to stay out of things because investors, farmers, suppliers WILL WIN and that is the bottom line.)

As has been stated, the laws of economics will never be repealed as some tend to believe. Price ceilings and floors have never worked and will never work. Therefore, accept the reality of higher fuel prices and get on with your lives. Short of that, go buy a bicycle.

Go have another pina colada.



Posted by Dave


carbon copy of he same useless comment you made towards me last time i hit a raw nerve.

you are very repetetive and you do not contribute much to the discussions, save for "I agree" , "I disagree" , and some various ineffective insults.

Yet they worked during WW1, WW2 and Korea-taxing the excess profits. Of course, that was during wartime and the GOPpers will tell you this is shoe-shopping time, except when we have to be petrified by the war against guys in skirts and sandals somewhere in the ME.

Posted by northguy3
* * * *

Uh huh. The fact that they rationed gasoline to just a few gallons a week maybe helped keep prices down, too. S'pose?

No real reform of our energy policies can be complete without including nuclear power, but the enviros have denied even an approach to conversation.

I keep hearing this over-and-over again; basically it's the environmental-lobby that prevents the construction of nuclear power plants and oil refineries, and are responsible for the food-to-oil scheme.

I'd really like to see some statistics to back this up. Does anyone know how much environmental groups spend for lobbiests in DC and how it compares to other groups like the oil or nuclear energy industries, pharmaceuticals, mining, etc.?

"Imagine if President Bush, after 9/11, simply declared war on oil and put the whole nation behind ending our crippling dependence on it."

Yeah, I imagine he would have been impeached. This is in some ways a good article, if the author could just get over the "I hate George Bush" mentality that cripples him.

YES.. we should be looking at coal, we have an almost inexhaustible supply of it, and along with that, wind, solar, nuclear, more domestic exploration (including Alaska) and everything else. In order to make that happen, we have to institute serious tort reform that stops determined nutcases from thwarting progress.

But in the meantime.. we are dependent on imported oil, its just an unpleasant fact of life, and consequently, our national interests lie in the middle east. That doesn't change when Bush leaves the white house, the next president, dem or repub, will face the same reality.

I'd love it if we just tell the Saudi's and all the rest of them to "keep your oil, we don't need it"

we all know how much those damn libruls wanted this war.

Posted by Dave


Do you want the list of who voted for the war? Its public, you could probably find it pretty easily. Hillary, your possible nominee for president wanted it... many others too.

Yeah, I imagine he would have been impeached.

If after over 3,000 Americans were killed by Arab Muslims, Bush came out and said, "Our strategy to make sure this never happens again is to build solar cars," I would have been screaming for his immediate removal, and probably exile to some offshore island.

They don't need lobbyists in Washington. All they need is a lawyer or two to file lawsuits. Even in the most nuclear-friendly locales in America, good luck getting the permitting on a new nuclear facility. Or a refinery. It's not necessarily the legislation, or the legislators--it's the constant legal hassles the enviros throw up.

But that's OK. The chickens are coming home to roost. About the only satisfaction I get these days when I pass a Volvo with plastered over with "Free Tibet" and "Hug The Planet" bumper stickers is that they paid $3.62 for gasoline, just like I do. And that it likely hurts them a whole lot more. Not to mention, they're refusal to consider nuclear power means that we're now burning an extra 20 million tons of coal PER YEAR. And I have a lot of coal.

"Do you want the list of who voted for the war?"

I said "libruls", Asshole, and there's not one on yer un-posted list.

" . . . their refusal . . . "

Apologies.

I would have been screaming for his immediate removal, and probably exile to some offshore island

Ditto..

Posted by nmg_no at 2008-05-05 11:17 AM


To quote Spock, "If I may be so bold..."


I am not actually authorized to award Righto's much-coveted 'Moment of Clarity Award' (TM) for the day, but I do so nevertheless.

K57,

Yeah right, because of taxes we have fewer more poorly maintained roads and bridges. What a load of bullshit.

Was that reference supposed to factually document something? Its nothing but classic rich rationalizations about how we should be glad we're being fucked in the ass?

OPEC is getting the lions share, but US Companies own wells all over the globe. Those in the Carribean are pumped Royalty Free.

If the WSJ says profits at $30/barrel were 7.8% and today at $116/barrel they're 8.3%, someone's lying (again). Consumption (in the US anyway), is down. Inventories and prices in the US are up, with the full blessings of BushCo.

Most of the price increase should be correctly tied to the falling value of the dollar, most definately Bush's fault. That fucker has been running the dollar printing presses at full tilt while borrowing billions to lose a war and growing trade deficits as far as the eye can see. He does it all for fiefdoms just like Enron, which was Shrub's largest supporter ever and a Company Cheney visited and fucked over India for, while supposedly being responsible for running Haliburton, which has fled to the Middle East.

Corruption is rampant and it ain't just the Republicans. It can never be completely stopped, but for us to recover, it has to be severely curtailed.

BOMB Venezuela. Take the oil.
Listen - if push comes to shove, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Manifest Destiny.

"BOMB Venezuela. Take the oil."
Posted by Fredo_C at 2008-05-05 11:30 AM

Looks like the pina coladas are kicking in.

And you wonder why people view you as a fucking idiot.

Dave seems like an angry person.

AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE DEPENDS ON OIL...World civilization is based on oil. We are in deep shiiit...

Dave is a mess.

No, Dave's a killer!

Jeff,
I knew you'd get it!

Not to be out-done by:


"Holy mother of God! It's finally happened!"

"They're fucking horrible-looking!"

"What did the old-man trade for these assholes - a used puck bag?"

I appreciate you confidence in me, Chair.

Chair,


Off-topic for a moment....


What did you think of the 4-overtime series win for the Stars?

Yet...in over 100 years of it's existence, the technology still doesn't exist to produce a viable alternative for the internal combustion engine?

Posted by evilpolock

With oil being so cheep, there was no reason to do it. What part of economics don't you guys understand?

Nuclear power is cheeper than oil but Hanoi Jane killed that with a movie. She did have some help from the government with their 'over regulation'.

If we could just invent a long extension cord, electric cars could be used. It looks like you can't have a battery operated car in parts of Calif now with their ban on lead. Oh well, the acid in them damn batteries realy isn't good for the enviroment either.

When someone invents something cheeper than the internal combustion engine that realy works we will get it. Until then don't depend on your government to solve the problem. They haven't solved anything for over 200 years.

"Dave seems like an angry person."

"Dave is a mess."

"No, Dave's a killer!"


You make me blush.

I'm floored. I had the sharks winning it all.
As long as Philly beats the Penguins and injures that bleeding vaginer named crosby I'll be content.

"What did you think of the 4-overtime series win for the Stars?" - JeffJ

It was a great game, both keepers made incredible saves....Nabby's save in the first overtime will be replayed at the SharkTank for years to come.

That being said, it was a bummer the Sharks lost :(

...telling everyone who has a car now to ride a train with disgusting bums and crack whores and Dethspud isn't going to work.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-05-05 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

rcade....I SAID RCADE. Do something about this abusive shit on your website. WE ARE APPALLED AT THE REFERENCE from Rob_The_A_Hole and being included in the same sentence as that idiot Dethspud.

Sincerely,

Disgusting Bums and Crack Whores

LOL @ RAH and RO.

Andrea and Chair,

As an avid Wings fan I was downright scared of the Sharks coming in to these playoffs. Not only were they the hottest team in the league, but they were a match-up problem for Detroit with their size.

I know I am very biased, but of the remaining teams I feel that the Red Wings have to be considered the front-runner at this point.

Yer a fucking idiot, fredo.

Go have another pina colada.



Posted by Dave


we have and have had enough oil in our backyard to have energy independence, but we haven't tapped that resource, why is that? who is the blame for that. think of the the tax revenues and jobs that have been lost and the lives saved had we done so 30 or 20 years or even 10 years ago. what and or who has stood in the way of that reality? big ol mean ol oil? you idiots want to blame oil for making less than .10 cents a gallon profit? when 70% of their profits come from outside the US. you want to blame our interest in foreign oil countries because people that follow your beliefs caused this dependency. you blame bush and the repubs for sending jobs overseas but you are perfectly happy to send national security overseas to hostile countries? is oil in your 401k or mutual fund portfolio? just think of how much these oil companies pay in taxes, 4 times what they make in profits, so could povery and education and healthcare benefited from the taxes that would have been paid by the jobs created and wealth that would have stayed here? not only are you fucking idiot but a hypocrite. your party isnt about issues it is about the cause of the moment or the emotion of the day.

Looks like ol' Scooter's got the answers.

Scooter fer Prezdent!!

Although some of the ideas for energy are good, the idea of "Declaring War" on an economic problem, and granting the accompanying war powers is nothing more than a guarantee of socialism, and ultimately, totalitarianism.

If we start granting war powers just to solve economic issues, do you think the government would ever leave "emergency war powers" status? This guy is a fool, in spite of having several sensible energy ideas.

For thoes of you that don't want to do a search, here it is.

EXXON 2007 Taxes $30 Billion
EXXON 2007 Profit $40.6 Billion

On top of that, they pay me dividends for the shares I have and I am taxed at the rate of 40% on top of that.

If you would only think for a minute. If they didn't pay all that tax, my gas bill would be $30 million a year less. But then the government would still have to get the money from me so I would have to pay $30 million more a year in taxes.

As you can plainly see, big oil is out to screw you and the government is your friend.

If after over 3,000 Americans were killed by Arab Muslims, Bush came out and said, "Our strategy to make sure this never happens again is to build solar cars," I would have been screaming for his immediate removal, and probably exile to some offshore island.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

What's your response now, since he still hasn't punished those who actually did it?

Seems to me, 15 of the 19 were Saudi.

scooter28054
You have aptly described the REAL cause of this, so called, energy crisis. All the lefties can say is "Bush did this, Bush didn't do that".

Dave- You are really the classic Obama supporter. What is your solution to the current crisis?

Seems to me, 15 of the 19 were Saudi.

Posted by Whatsleft

And how many are alive?

An american shot a person last night. Do you blame me?

Just exactly are you trying to get at wha?

I almost forgot. The dems have a majority in BOTH houses of Congress. What are they doing?

Sniper
I do not believe that the great majority of the 9/11 perps were Saudi by happenstance. Could it be you are expressing the desired effect?

Opps my last post should be directed to Whatsleft.

Sorry Sniper.

From the article:

"I remember watching Jimmy Carter's 1977 televised speech in which he said dealing with America's oil dependency as "the moral equivalent of war."

In the years since, every president and presidential candidate has repeated the call to lessen America's dependence on foreign oil. Yet little has been done."



Carter even installed Solar Panels on the roof of the White House only to be taken down ASAP by Alzheimers Reagan because he thought "they sent the wrong message".

What message was that? Simple. 'Solar won't make my Oil buddies rich'.

AS I hinted at before, different technologies ARE being tested and some coming to bear fruit.

Some guy in FRANCE has invented a compressed AIR car. He demonstrated that car on CNN about 3 weeks ago as I remember??? It is small now but he says it will be larger in a few years and carry up to 5 people. The compressor is run from a small gas engine BUT, the car will (Supposedly???) travel at normal road speeds and get in excess of 100 miles per gallon. This prototype is being tested in France right now. Production supposed to ramp us gradually and the cars introduced in the US by next??? year. Larger autos to follow. Cost at first about $20,000 or so.

Our dependence on oil will continue unless a new technology, such as the compressed air auto, replaces the OLD technology. This is a given in ALL economic strategies. Why is this so damned hard to see folks, or are the blinders on so damned tight we have tunnel vision?

In the meantime WE WILL continue to pay more and more for a gallon of gas and there aint nuttin anybody can or should do about it.

Yet...in over 100 years of it's existence, the technology still doesn't exist to produce a viable alternative for the internal combustion engine?
Yeah, right. Anyone that doesn't believe the oil industry pulls the strings in this government just isn't paying attention.

Posted by evilpolock at 2008-05-05 09:46 AM

I'd like to comment on the above statement as well. Apparently, evilpolock believes that the oil industry is in control of all the governments in every nation. I suppose this is why all other nations fuel their vehicles with gasoline, too. Have you ever heard the saying, "Build a better mousetrap, and the people will come knocking on your door"? Believe me, when an inventer discovers an alternate fuel source that can compete with gasoline, we will know about it.

Christopher Ruddy, NewsMax: Imagine if President Bush, after 9/11, simply declared war on oil and put the whole nation behind ending our crippling dependence on it.

Imagine if Newsmax had published this 6 years ago instead of being brainless shills for junior's administration.

What's your response now, since he still hasn't punished those who actually did it?

Posted by Whatsleft

Do you have any idea how many hundreds of thousands of Arab Muslims are dead?

Also the Taliban and Al Qaeda were wrecked in Afghanistan... they may be making some kind of resurgence now at the will of the Afghani people, but they'll get their asses kicked again... plus they can't use the whole country as a training ground for terrorism anymore. AQ's leaders are either dead, captured, or in constant hiding...

We haven't gone far enough, and we still need to capture/kill two main guys (and our soldiers are busting their ass every day to do so) but to say we haven't punished those who were responsible for 9/11 is assinine...

OH YEAH BTW because of the libs- we cannot drill in a tiny segment of ANWAR because of the caribou. Uselss bag of bones horned cows that don't even contribute to the food chain.
Posted by Fredo_C

Who is Anwar? And why would we want to drill into his tiny segment.
OHHHH, you mean ANWR!!!!
It's always humorous when the clueless spout off moronic opinions.

Yeah, A-Hole is right!!
How many people who had nothing to do with 9-11 do we have to kill before you get that through your thick skull!!!??

No real reform of our energy policies can be complete without including nuclear power, but the enviros have denied even an approach to conversation.

How about we have bushie's butt-buddies at Helliburton build one in your back yard?

rAh,

What does obliterating innocent people have to do with punishing, or more importantly stopping further aggression against us?

Pakistan's Secret Service sent $100,000 to Mohamad Atta prior to 9-11. We have taken NO action against the agency or the man who wired the money. The Saudi's have refused to let us follow the money trial through their country or even fully investigate the barracks bombing. We have taken NO action against the Saudis.

Scalia insists that torture is NOT punishment so by his logic we certainly have NOT punished any of the one or two perpetrators we have actually caught.

Israel first master, Saudi Arabia second master, China third master Japan fourth master. Thus there is no time or resources left to serve US citizens.

Nutcase, Saudi Arabia cannot be criticized. They're junior's friends!!!

How many people who had nothing to do with 9-11 do we have to kill before you get that through your thick skull!!!??

Posted by RastaCyborg


Bullshit they had nothing to do with 9/11...

the hijackers, the people who helped plan the attacks, the leadership of Al Qaeda, their financial backers, the citizens that think its okay to carry out suicide bombings against us or israel or other western countries come from all over the Middle East...

All of the above lead to 9/11... few if any in the region are innocent.

YEAH!!! KILL EM ALL, LET ALLAH SORT EM OUT!!!

Pakistan's Secret Service sent $100,000 to Mohamad Atta prior to 9-11. We have taken NO action against the agency or the man who wired the money. The Saudi's have refused to let us follow the money trial through their country or even fully investigate the barracks bombing. We have taken NO action against the Saudis.

Would you have us go to war with the entire region? I think that may be coming some day, but for now let's try regime change and nation building in Iraq. Hopefully they'll take to at least some form of Democracy and capitalism and calm down a little...

If not we can try your way of all out war...

YEAH!!! KILL EM ALL, LET ALLAH SORT EM OUT!!!

Posted by RastaCyborg


If Iraq doesn't work like I said, we can try Nutcase's idea of all out war...

And I do think it will come to that sooner rather then later...

They don't need lobbyists in Washington. All they need is a lawyer or two to file lawsuits. Even in the most nuclear-friendly locales in America, good luck getting the permitting on a new nuclear facility. Or a refinery. It's not necessarily the legislation, or the legislators--it's the constant legal hassles the enviros throw up.

I've been in the environmental consulting field for over a decade, and have never had a single project stopped-dead because of any environmental issues (out of 1000's of projects). Nearly everything can be mitigated in some way or another and what can't, usually gets wavered by the DEP, EPA, Army Corps, DSMRA, etc. Stories about spotted owls and bats flying into turbines are extremely rare; these are actually examples of shoddy environmental/biological surveys and poor planning, and not systematic failures in the permitting process.

I think nuclear plants are their own can of worms, because nobody wants them in their own backyards. For most power plants, you can stick them in a rural area, with few local inhabitants, and you wont have much of an issue. I suspect the problem with nuclear plants, is that while people generally don't object to living 20 miles from a coal plant, very few people want to be anywhere near the nuke. My aunt lives in Pottstown, PA within eye sight of the Limerick power plant; as soon as it went up, their property values fell dramatically.

As for oil refineries, I'd really like to see some specific details regarding a few people holding up construction with lawsuits. My firm has done numerous projects for Marathon Oil in Ashland, KY and we never had any issues. The oil industry also has enough money and laywers, I'm not convinced a few people could really hold them up in court. Given that they're making a whole lot of money and there isn't any shortage, I believe the reason there aren't more refineries is simply the lack of incentive.

"the hijackers, the people who helped plan the attacks, the leadership of Al Qaeda, their financial backers, the citizens that think its okay to carry out suicide bombings against us or israel or other western countries come from all over the Middle East...

All of the above lead to 9/11... few if any in the region are innocent."

That's like saying that, because there are Crips and Bloods (or Mafiosos) committing crimes who come from a bunch of the United States, anyone who lives in the United States "region" is guilty of their crimes and responsible for their actions. That's illogical.

Spock

Spock,
I'm sure A-hole would have no problem with large portions of our population being eliminated as well.

Hell I have been saying the Iraq War was all about Oil control ever since I landed up here at the Retort 4 Years ago. Is it FINALLY becoming obvious?? Hell if a dumb hayseed from Kansas could figure t out why Couldn't the vast majority of You?? Me thinks most knew they just didn't have the fucking balls to admit that Dubya was trading blood for Oil. I TOLD YOU SO


Larry Mohr

That's like saying that, because there are Crips and Bloods (or Mafiosos) committing crimes who come from a bunch of the United States, anyone who lives in the United States "region" is guilty of their crimes and responsible for their actions.

You might want to add on that the crips and bloods would be backed by federal and state governments, large portions of Americans would have to agree with what they were doing, or think it was actually the Jews doing the drivebye shootings, plus our wealthiest citizens would have to be funding them, the US Gov't would have given them all of Utah to train in, and for decades they have been attacking China and its allies, while those of us who do not support the Bloods and Crips sit back and do nothing to stop them...

After all that... yeah... the rest of us would be guilty.

Me thinks most knew they just didn't have the fucking balls to admit that Dubya was trading blood for Oil.

Okay, well we've killed 500,000-1,000,000 arabs...

where's the oil? If we're trading lives for oil, shouldn't we be seeing quite a few tankers at this point?

Yeah Rob, the oil was going to be for us. Time to grow up.

...and haven't you been disputing that 500,000 number forever?

...and haven't you been disputing that 500,000 number forever?

Posted by RastaCyborg



that was for you guys since its the number you cling too... I don't think our troops have killed anywhere near that number... but I suppose its possible that Arabs have killed around that many Arabs...

Hey Rob dipshit I have posted the link to how much Oil we get from Iraq several times now. If You are too lazy to click on it that ain't My poblem.

Larry Mohr

Yeah Rob, the oil was going to be for us. Time to grow up.

Posted by RastaCyborg


Okay can you show that Exxon or Shell or BP is getting millions of barrels of free oil?

Also, wouldn't that drastically increase supply? Isn't there some basic rule about supply and demand in economics? I think there is...

that was for you guys since its the number you cling too... I don't think our troops have killed anywhere near that number... but I suppose its possible that Arabs have killed around that many Arabs...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

...so you use that number to support your lame assertion that those responsible for 9-11 have been punished but think it's a ridiculous number when people complain about the high death toll.
You're a piece of work.

Hey Rob dipshit I have posted the link to how much Oil we get from Iraq several times now.

Free oil? We just get it? We pull up with our tankers fly the Red, White and Blue and they fill 'er up with free oil?

Oh please by all means, post it again, I would love to see how much free oil that we get from Iraq.

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

The basic rule of supply and demand??
HAAA HAA HAAAA!!!
All of the oil companies have made enormous record profits over the past five years. Wouldn't the basic rules of supply and demand dictate that one oil company should sacrifice some of the profit to lower prices and therefore edge out the other oil companies?
In the fairy tale land of Supplyanddemandia that's how it works!!!
Unfortunately, the real business world is back room deals and government payoffs. You can be sure the oil companies are getting a better deal than they would have if Hussein had switched his nationalized oil industry over to the euro.

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries



Address:www.eia.doe.gov


6th Country down

Posted by LarryMohr


But we're paying for that oil... you said we were trading it for blood...

Why would we go to war for their oil, and then pay them for it?

Larry,
A-hole actually believes that "No blood for oil" means that we (the citizens of the US) will be getting the oil for free if our soldiers die fighting for it. I think he's in 3rd grade or something.

A-hole actually believes that "No blood for oil" means that we (the citizens of the US) will be getting the oil for free if our soldiers die fighting for it.

Larry said we're trading blood for oil... plenty of blood... where's the oil?

Well, A-hole, there's lots of oil leaving Iraq right now.
Before the war, Saddam Hussein would have decided where it went and he was about to attach it to the euro.
Today, American oil companies decide where it goes and they get it at a much smaller price.
We can put up links with pictures if that was too complicated.

Yeah Rob "We" are paying for it with Soldiers lives. something in which You support and I don't so how is that blood quotent on Your hands today?? Are You gettng tired of it driping from Your hands YET??

Larry Mohr

...and no, I don't believe the situation was better with Hussein controlling the oil. I also don't believe that 4,000 Americans and thousands of Iraqis should have lost their lives to change it to the current situation.

RastaCyborg Saddam Hussein went to Euro's back in November of 2000. Just a FYI.

Larry Mohr

Well, A-hole, there's lots of oil leaving Iraq right now.
Before the war, Saddam Hussein would have decided...

Yes, but we're paying for it...

And before the war there was an embargo and a very small amount of oil leaving Iraq... If all we wanted to do was just start importing his oil again, don't you think that would have been the easier way to go? Probably could have convinced him not to go to the Euro in exchange for lifting no fly zones and embargos and such pretty easily too...

Yeah Rob "We" are paying for it with Soldiers lives

Um... actually we're paying for it with money...

Um... actually we're paying for it with money...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

...and WHO is getting that money....c'mon, you can do it.

Actually no we're not paying for it with Money. But do let Your delusions keepYou going Rob. They must help You sleep better at night.

Larry Mohr

...and WHO is getting that money....c'mon, you can do it.

Posted by RastaCyborg


SO you admit that we're paying money, and not dead soldiers for oil... okay, good. That's a start... can you help Larry?

Actually no we're not paying for it with Money.

Uh, actually we are.

I think we'd be pretty lucky if the oil companies decided to sell us the oil that THEY are getting from Iraq. It makes more sense for them to sell it to China.
So, to make it easier for A-hole to understand, it shouldn't be "No blood for oil"; it should be "No blood to allow massive international oil companies to control the flow of oil from Iraq and therefore make huge profits selling it to the Chinese".
Doesn't convert to a chant very well, though.

Greenhouse emissions are utter fucking nonsense...There is no way to have a modern society without them, and there is no significant evidence that we can do damage with them. Now, if we can understand that, then we might get somewhere with energy policy.

We will never dump oil because of mythical greenhouse emissions (oil and gas are simply usefully-concentrated biofuels). We will dump it when it becomes more expensive than another comparable alternative....period! Right now, there isn't one even close.

Nuclear large scale would be great IF they solve the waste-disposal problem...Of course, it doesn't help you with cars....

Biofuels are a joke...they are extremely weak versions of coal that cause food prices to go up...

Electricity is great if they learn to make better batteries...right now, the batteries aren't good enough..Of course, electric cars would drive up our use of coal or nuclear astronomically, so if you're really worried about greenhouse gases, electric cars don't help too much.

Fuel cells are great if they learn how to make them cheaply...they haven't yet, and then you'd have to work out the distribution logistics of the water, which on a global scale is a logistical problem....If you're an environmentalist, you might be worried about what dumping all that water into the air will do in arid environments, but I haven't heard of any concern over that...The Left should be questioning it, but they're not smart enough....

Solar panels are weak, region-dependent, and highly polluting at the moment....If they develop non-polluting, powerful panels, that'd be great for buildings....it'll never be powerful enough for cars....

So, should we GO TO WAR ON OIL, THEN? Wanna drop emissions....go back to a medieval lifestyle...of course, lifespans will drop precipitously, but hey, what's more important?

All of the oil companies have made enormous record profits over the past five years. Wouldn't the basic rules of supply and demand dictate that one oil company should sacrifice some of the profit to lower prices and therefore edge out the other oil companies?

Posted by RastaCyborg

First off it hasn't been for over five years. Second, the law of supply and demand dosen't recognize sacrifice. Tird, who is the big oil company in China where much of the new demand is comming from. Is that one of the big oil companies we all hate?

Do you have any idea ho long ago it was that a new refrinery was built here in the US? Do you have any idea how long ago it was thet the damn mouse counters had the oil shale projects in Colorado shut down? I remember real well, I was there.

If there is such huge profits in oil, I guess that you and a bunch of your lib buddies should start an oil company and cash in on all the big bucks. Aw, that would mean you would have to devote the rest of your life to that so I know it won't happen.

From the descovery of an oil field to oil at the refinery is about 15 years now, do you think you could borrow that much money?

A-hole, I find it humorous that you're avoiding the elephant in the room and focusing your argument on your delusion about Larry believing that we're actually exchanging human bodies for oil.

If there is such huge profits in oil, I guess that you and a bunch of your lib buddies should start an oil company and cash in on all the big bucks. Aw, that would mean you would have to devote the rest of your life to that so I know it won't happen.

From the descovery of an oil field to oil at the refinery is about 15 years now, do you think you could borrow that much money?

Posted by Sniper

Do you think I have any desire to be rich?

Rastacyborg,

Libs aren't about rich. They're too lazy for that. They do want POWER, though, to boss people around. They particularly like to take money from some and give it to others, thereby weakening the power of the people they take the money from, and buying the friendship of the leeches they give the money to....

They are VERY generous with other people's tax money, but as a group, do not give to charities....They're all for public education, but fight any measure which would make it effective...afterall, educated people grow up to make their own money and don't need liberal help to get by....

No, liberals don't care about rich. Of course, most of them already are...they just didn't have to do any work to get there.

"Carter even installed Solar Panels on the roof of the White House only to be taken down ASAP by Alzheimers Reagan because he thought "they sent the wrong message"."

Just because you keep repeating this it doesn't get any better.

Carter installed solar water heating panels on the WH roof in 1978. Reagan took office in 1981. The solar thermal panels were remove when ths roof had to be repaired in 1986.

blah blah blah
whole lotta nothin'
unsubstantiated crap
blah blah blah
shit that has nothing to do with this thread
blah blah blah
-Jonryker

Do you think I have any desire to be rich?

Posted by RastaCyborg at 2008-05-05 03:27 PM



Too funny!

Carter installed solar water heating panels on the WH roof in 1978. Reagan took office in 1981. The solar thermal panels were remove when ths roof had to be repaired in 1986.

Posted by kerrin57

...and why didn't Ronnie have them re-installed? They were used for another 20 years at Unity College.

Do you think I have any desire to be rich?

Posted by RastaCyborg at 2008-05-05 03:27 PM


Too funny!

Posted by kerrin57

I'm glad you're amused.

EXXON 2007 Taxes $30 Billion
EXXON 2007 Profit $40.6 Billion

On top of that, they pay me dividends for the shares I have and I am taxed at the rate of 40% on top of that. Sniper

Snipe, you might want to fire your accountant; tax on dividends is 15%.

Do you think I have any desire to be rich?

Posted by RastaCyborg at 2008-05-05 03:27 PM | Reply


$0.35 a mile?

10-4 bitch.

Hey Chairpoodle,
Do you work the TA Truckstop at the Transit Rd. exit? I saw a Lot Lizard there who reminded me of you.

Bad oil - BAD - I drink your milkshake!

You were the one that claimed we were "punishing the 9-11ers", not me. I pointed out several holes in your argument and your response is I am advocating "All Out War"? You are also confusing "Democracy and Capitalism" with "Sole Sourcing Contracts to BushCo cronies while cancelling existing deals illegally. Any ordinary intellect (including Jesus) would understand this to be stealing, with a gun.

We are in a stalemate. The locals don't like being robbed so they are systematically sabotaging oil production and will continue to do so until we leave. Shrub is too dense or indifferent to ever adjust to this reality.