Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Staples Hughes, a North Carolina lawyer, was on the witness stand and about to disclose a secret he believed would free an innocent man from prison. But the judge told Mr. Hughes to stop. "If you testify," Judge Jack A. Thompson said at a hearing last year on the prisoner's request for a new trial, "I will be compelled to report you to the state bar."

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"If you testify," Judge Jack A. Thompson said at a hearing last year on the prisoner's request for a new trial, "I will be compelled to report you to the state bar. Do you understand that?"

But Mr. Hughes continued. Twenty-two years before, he said, a client, now dead, confessed that he had acted alone in committing a double murder for which another man was also serving life. After his own imprisoned client died, Mr. Hughes recalled last week, "it seemed to me at that point ethically permissible and morally imperative that I spill the beans."

Judge Thompson, of the Cumberland County Superior Court in Fayetteville, did not see it that way, and some experts in legal ethics agree with him. The obligation to keep a client's secrets is so important, they say, that it survives death and may not be violated even to cure a grave injustice -- for example, the imprisonment for 26 years of another man, in Illinois, who was freed just last month.

A lawyer's broad duty to keep clients' confidences is the bedrock on which the justice system is built, they argue. If clients did not feel free to speak candidly, their lawyers could not represent them effectively. And making exceptions risks eroding the trust between clients and their lawyers in future cases. Experts in legal ethics are quick to point out that the various players in the adversary system have assigned roles and that lawyers generally must tend to a limited one.

"Lawyers are not undercover informants," said Stephen Gillers, who teaches legal ethics at New York University. Indeed, said Steven Lubet, who teaches legal ethics at Northwestern, few clients would confess to their lawyers if they knew the lawyers might some day choose to disclose that information.

The analysis does bend a bit, in two ways, in cases involving death.

Legal ethics rules vary from state to state, but many allow disclosure of client confidences to prevent certain death or substantial bodily harm. That means, several legal ethics experts said, that lawyers may break a client's confidence to stop an execution, but not to free an innocent prisoner. Massachusetts seems to be alone in allowing lawyers to reveal secrets "to prevent the wrongful execution or incarceration of another."

And there is debate over how a client's death affects a lawyer's obligation to keep the client's secrets. Most lawyers and courts say the obligation lives on. But it can be hard to live with the consequences.

"I've never, ever, ever before violated a client's confidence, never," Mr. Hughes told Judge Thompson as he described what his client, Jerry Cashwell, had told him. "But Jerry's dead. My disclosure can't hurt him and I have to weigh that disclosure against the continuing harm" to the lifer, Lee Wayne Hunt.

Other lawyers have recently faced similar choices. In the Illinois case, Dale Coventry and W. Jameson Kunz waited 26 years to speak up about a client's confession that freed Alton Logan, who had been serving a life sentence for murder. The lawyers said their client had given them permission to talk once he was dead. Last month, Mr. Logan was granted a new trial and freed on bond.

A Virginia lawyer, Leslie P. Smith, waited 10 years to disclose a secret that may save Daryl R. Atkins from execution, acting only after the Virginia State Bar gave him permission to speak.

Those lawyers have faced criticism from some laypeople for staying quiet so long. Mr. Hughes, by contrast, was rewarded with a disciplinary complaint for speaking up at all.

"Mr. Hughes has committed professional misconduct," Judge Thompson wrote last year in a decision refusing to consider testimony that seemed to clear Mr. Hunt. The disciplinary complaint against Mr. Hughes was dismissed in January in a confidential decision. But the next day, the North Carolina Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of Judge Thompson's ruling, which had also accepted the prosecution's argument that Mr. Hughes' testimony was properly excluded because it was hearsay. Mr. Hughes is 56 and has seen a few things in a long career as a defense lawyer. He said there was not much reason to focus on his own travails.

"The only consequence for me is the bitterness and anger I feel over Mr. Hunt," Mr. Hughes said. "I go home, have a glass of wine, work in the yard. And there's a guy sitting in a prison camp two counties away, and my feeling is he's going to be there for the rest of his life."

Most experts in legal ethics agree that lawyers should be allowed to violate a living client's confidences to save an innocent man from execution, but not to free someone serving a prison term, however long.

"I prefer to draw the line at the life-and-death situation," said Monroe Freedman, who teaches legal ethics at Hofstra. "That situation is sufficiently rare that is doesn't present a systemic threat. If that is extended to incarceration in general, it would end the sense of security clients have in speaking candidly with their lawyers."

The questions get more complicated when the client has died.

Mr. Cashwell, Mr. Hughes's client, committed suicide in 2002, more than a decade after he pleaded guilty to the 1984 killings of Roland and Lisa Matthews. Prosecutors had maintained that Mr. Hunt also participated in the killings, and Mr. Cashwell did nothing to refute them. But Mr. Hughes said that Mr. Cashwell confessed in private that he single-handedly killed the couple after an argument over whether a television was playing too loud. "Lee Wayne Hunt had nothing to do with it," Mr. Hughes said.

Mr. Hunt has one novel avenue left -- applying to the recently created North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission. That board makes recommendations to a three-judge panel that can free exonerated prisoners.

Both the United States Supreme Court and the North Carolina Supreme Court have said the lawyer-client privilege survives death, though they recognized that narrow exceptions might be possible. "Clients may be concerned about reputation, civil liability or possible harm to friends of family" if their secrets were disclosed after they died, Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the majority in a 1998 Supreme Court decision.

Professor Freedman said that room remains for case-by-case analysis, and that Mr. Hughes was probably entitled to tell what he knows.

"If there is no threat of civil action against the client's estate and there are no survivors who continue to believe in the client's innocence," Professor Freedman said, "there is no confidentiality obligation to begin with."

Mr. Hughes said that sounded about right.

"What reputational interest did Jerry have?" he asked. "He had pleaded guilty to killing two people. He didn't have an estate. His estate was a pair of shower shoes and two paperback books."

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an obvious Democrat



an obvious Democrat
~VERNON


Knee jerk Vernon Strikes!

Ok Vernon which one of these players is the Dem and why?

Oh sorry to reply might require a full reading.

Good one, Zap. The guy with the conscience surely was the Dem. Consciences are usually in short supply among Reps. The rigid judge must have been a Rep. Maybe on first name terms with Jesse Helms. herm

It is plain to see we have a legal system, not a justice system.

God. Why does everything have to be Democrat or Republican? How fucking juvenile. Grow up, get a clue, and realize there there are all kinds of people on boths sides of the political spectrum.

Hillary is a lawyer and Obama is a lawyer!

What does this tell you about lawyers.

The judge actually threatened to have this lawyer disbarred for speaking out even after his client had died.

This is what is wrong with our legal system. It is not about justice or truth. If it was then he would have spoke out 22 years ago.

The law actually says that if you as council know your client is guilty then you cannot defend him as innocent yet lawyers every day ignore this part of the law.

A perfect example of this is they guy in CA a couple of years back who killed a girl and was willing to tell authorites where the body was for a reduced sentence. When the deal fell through his lawyers acted like they never knew his admitted guilt. Even worse no disciplinary action was ever taken against them.

Bee Swell

God. Why does everything have to be Democrat or Republican? How fucking juvenile. Grow up, get a clue, and realize there there are all kinds of people on boths sides of the political spectrum.

Posted by goatman


Well said.

During the course of the past 7+ years I've developed a burning aversion to anything GOP.

Conversely, I recognize a very fine individual in our son-in-law... a Republican by birthright, and a prosperous middle aged American.



God. Why does everything have to be Democrat or Republican? How fucking juvenile. Grow up, get a clue, and realize there there are all kinds of people on boths sides of the political spectrum.

Indeed.

"I prefer to draw the line at the life-and-death situation," said Monroe Freedman, who teaches legal ethics at Hofstra.


First we have the oxyMohrOn: Legal Ethics.

Second, anyone expressing these views should spend some time in prison where they can better judge where to draw the line. I suspect the first time they got beaten up or raped they've have a different perspective.

In the UK - and I don't say much nice about it - the Barristers are intent on finding the facts and pursuing the truth of the matter. Sure beats an adversarial system where the state has the power to both investigate and prosecute, and without a decent defense and perhaps an investigator, you are screwed.

Even in civil court the judges tend to favor the silk stocking firms, and outside the limits of small claims court, erect arcane barriers to pro se litigants.

It may be a "legal system" but true justice is an anomaly.

I see the Garbage has blown in again. Someone needs to hire a Heil and haul it away.

Larry Mohr

Legal stupid stuff...karma always wins



karma always wins

Karma isn't good and bad it just is, it isn't the great cosmic equalizer.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Unfortunately this is one of those times when both sides are (sorta) right.

That said I agree with Judge Thompson for denying the attorney's testimony but I'll be happy to buy Mr. Hughes a drink (Scotch of course) for pushing the issue in an attempt to save an innocent man.

This story made the rounds in a lot of Public Defender offices. It is like one of those hypothetical questions we are asked back in law school. It points out a paradox inherent to legal practice: The law is supposed to be about justice, but being a lawyer means following the law.

some karma busters....for an example ~ one takes on another's karma when one interfers with another's destiny/fate like pulling a catapiller out of its coccoon before it's ready to be born because one sympathizes too much for the catapiller's struggles to become an emperor's moth.

www.inspiring-quotes-and-
stories.com

Taser International Wins Lawsuit to Change Cause of Death...
Posted May 4, 2008 01:17 PM PST

They did not die from the taser shocks, oh no, no, no,no,no,nonoNO, they died of "Excited Delirium!"
If anyone wants to know why lawyers are viewed as scum, this is a good example.

yro.slashdot.org

The law actually says that if you as council know your client is guilty then you cannot defend him as innocent yet lawyers every day ignore this part of the law.

That's not the case, but I can see where many people might misunderstand it. You simply cannot knowingly violate the law. You cannot allow a client to give what you KNOW to be false testimony, otherwise you're suborning perjury.

Everyone is entitled to a defense, that is part of our legal system.

Legally speaking, guilty people aren't "allowed" to go up on the stand and lie either, that's another crime if they do. And very few lawyers care enough about their client to risk being disbarred for them.

As horrible as a situation like this is, confidentiality...absolute legal confidentiality exists under very specific circumstances because the benefits outweigh the problems. A spouse needs to be able to be free to talk to their spouse, thus one cannot be compelled to testify and what one tells a spouse is usually not admissible (under certain circumstances). We need to be able to talk freely to our doctors, unless we present an immediate threat to someone else or ourselves, it's needs to be protected. Religion enjoys the same protections.

Unfortunately it means that some people have information that could save another. But that's the price paid for the benefit.

I don't like that price, but that's the price. And in this case, the price was 26 years of an innocent man's life, which is why the rest of the justice system used to be tailored around the idea that it was better 12 guilty go free than one innocent person suffer.

Another question people should be asking and demanding answers to is when the innocent are convicted, WHY this happens, and how that can be avoided.

The justice system in this instance failed.

This dosen't matter until your the one incarcerated unjustly.

If thats the case, the law needs to be changed yesterday.

Ludicrous what American Justice as been reduced to.

Class, Money, political correctness are more important than truth or justice.

"Why does everything have to be Democrat or Republican?"

Because that's how it is. People are either FOR people, in which case they're Dems, or AGAINST people (and for corporations); they're Reps. A fascist, a nazi, by any other name still smells. herm

A defense attorneys job is never to suborn perjury. In fact, often on the most horrendous of cases, it is not even a defense attorneys job to "win". Rather, it is to insure that the State meets it's burden of proof before a client is convicted, and to point out all the weaknesses in the State's case. Where evidence of innocence exists it is incumbent on us to investigate fully and present the favorable evidence. So long as we insure our clients are being treated fairly under the Constitution we are doing our job. And it is an extremely noble and under appreciated one.
Unfortunately, some defense attorneys, especially ambitious or inexperienced ones lose sight of our true function. In part it's because there is more money in acquittals than convictions. In part it's because the human ego hates to ever "lose". Which is why often the best and most experienced defense attorneys spend most of their energy resolving a case (plea bargaining) to save a guilty client the most onerous consequences of their crimes.

"Because that's how it is. People are either FOR people, in which case they're Dems, or AGAINST people (and for corporations); they're Reps. A fascist, a nazi, by any other name still smells. herm

Posted by herm"

How fucking juvenile.

Posted by goatman

The law is supposed to be about justice, but being a lawyer means following the law.

Posted by moder8

That being the case, the law is stupid.

another example of why lawyers should never be in charge of anything important.

Common sense, in the legal profession, is uncommon.

Charles Dickens (181270)
QUOTATION: "If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, ... "the law is a ass--a idiot.

right on nmg.

Herm,

I know Nazis and fascists smell bad, but why would you keep pointing out that this inevitable endpoint of socialist governemnts stinks? We anti-socialists already know that....that's why we're anti-socialists.

The writ of Habeus Corpus used to mean something. someone is in jail and they shouldn't be....

It is plain to see we have a legal system, not a justice system.

Posted by Sniper

This is true. Emphasis on System.

The writ of Habeus Corpus used to mean something. someone is in jail and they shouldn't be....

Posted by Lipzoidial

But if the evidence can't be presented in court, it doesn't exist.

Emphasis on System.

"an obvious Democrat

Posted by vernon at 2008-05-04 03:17 PM"


"God. Why does everything have to be Democrat or Republican? How fucking juvenile. Grow up, get a clue, and realize there there are all kinds of people on boths sides of the political spectrum.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-04 07:57 PM"

No shit, Goatman. And what's weird is that juvenile Vernon is our resident septugenarian. An ancient juvenile - go figure.

The Goat's "how fucking juvenile" (quoted in full) would score few points in a debate contest, but if he has any REAL rebuttal I'll listen.

Ryker weighs in with "I know Nazis and fascists smell bad, but why would you keep pointing out that this inevitable endpoint of socialist governemnts stinks? We anti-socialists already know that....that's why we're anti-socialists." I've tried to explain that nazis and fascists are right wing, not left, but he seems to be blind.

Or deaf, if someone's reading to him.

How sad to go through life merely labeling yourself as "anti" something. herm

Maybe "anti-something" means that you want to exclude that "something" from the status quo. It doesn't mean that you are not for "something."

We create our fictions and values, and then defend them as if they were holy writ.

Remember when therapists were not permitted to report certain information from patients, information whose none-disclosure might result in harm to others. Well, those "rules" were changed, and now some reporting of patient confidences to avoid harm to others, is compulsory.

Quite possibly, these "values" set up in our legal system, require review, and possibly change. The therapy "system" managed to survive this change in values.

The idea that even revealing statements of a dead person, who is impervious to harm, and who in this particular case did not even have a reputation to protect, was subsidiary to maintaining "rules" that resulted in continued long-term incarceration of a possibly innocent man, tortures the idea of "justice." It certainly outrages the consciences of people not in thrall to "rules" as values superior to the living of his life by an individual human being.

Maybe we should enact a "rule" requiring that a certain number of members of the bar in each state be hung each year. It would be relatively simple to justify to the populace. Justifications may be specious, but they're easy to formulate. Maybe Chairman Mao had some valid social insights when he conducted his purge of the pious bureaucrats in China.

The piety of lawyers and their willingness to sacrifice a man to the maws of "the justice system" and perpetuate an injustice, is quite demonstrative of moral bankruptcy.

To take that one step farther, the looser that brings fourth a frivlous lawsuit should have to pay for all the legal costs of that suit.

the looser that brings fourth a frivlous lawsuit should have to pay

The cause of action is termed Malicious Prosecution.

Prove it and you can be awarded all costs and damages.

The Goat's "how fucking juvenile" (quoted in full) would score few points in a debate contest,...Herm

Maybe as few points as your sophomoric "they're Reps. A fascist, a nazi, by any other name still smells." If you are going to accuse your opponent of weak debate tactics, you may want to avoid doing it yourself in the same thread

Takes a whole bunch of Socratic brain-power to call the other side Nazis and then bail.

Pretty weak, Herm. And tired.

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