McCain wants families to make those decisions. Nice sound bite except that millions of families can't afford health care. I guess McCains solution for them is for them to go fuck themselves.

McCain has no problem with the government making those decisions for HIS family--it's YOUR family that doesn't deserve it.

McCain wants families to make those decisions

YEAH!

Except for the fact Most Families Don't hold a Seat on their HMO Board of Directors (the ones who actually make the Decisions that affect your Families Healthcare)!

McCain Rejects Govt Health Care


McCain's got his health care all paid for by the government and he's taken
care of for life. Screw everyone else, right?

Guess committing adultery with a wealthy heiress while he was married and later divorcing his wife (who raised their three kids) so he could marry the wealthy heiress and use her money to get into politics has left McBush with no worries as to where the bucks would come from to pay for his own health insurance premiums.

Besides, why help many Americans with desperately needed health insurance when our tax money can be much better spent waging war in Iraq (and next in Iran) to keep those lucrative war profiteering contracts from never ending. Got to take care of those Republican donors first.

Has McCain ever had to get health insurance on his own? Ever?

The health care stance - and the wealthy second wife who won't release her tax returns - are more positive reasons why people will vote for anyone but a Repub in November. herm

Considering the situation millions of Americans find themselves in concerning health care McCain's position isn't just not to my liking, it makes me think less of him as a human being. Fuck you John McCain.

Wow!!! The libs are foaming at the mouth today.

Never really understood the libs' penchant for wanting to turn over the most visceral and primal responsibilities to the government--health care, shelter, food, physical protection. But I'll pass.

Well, that's what elections are for. If Americans want to vote for "free" government health care, we'll get exactly what we pay for.

RIR

Nothing is free. But it seems you see more value in billions in Iraq rather than saving American lives. I understand your morals completely. You are "pro-life".

"Never really understood the libs' penchant for wanting to turn over the most visceral and primal responsibilities to the government--health care, shelter, food, physical protection. But I'll pass."

I never understood the rights desire to tell the public to go fuck themselves when they can't afford health care and then try to tell them who to fuck, when to pray, who to marry and when to have children---then claim they are for individual freedoms.

Insurance is the problem here. I have never understood paying a little bit of money a month and receiving lots of money in return. The whole insurance scheme should go away...

The insurance industry is deep into ploitics, therfore, corrupt.

"I've made it very clear that what I want is for families to make decisions about their health care, not government, and that's the fundamental difference between myself and Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton,"



The decision many will have to make is Health Coverage or Food....Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....decis ions, decisions.

AAAAHHH.......and WHHHOOOOAAAAAA>..

danni.....nice ..it just warms my cockles to see libs go apeshit when a politician DOESNT use the 'giveme' card....

what he doesnt want has a two word name.
government boondoggle....but what liberals want is yet another government handout that gives them EVEN More leverage over what we do in our everyday life and dont think for ONE FUCKIN SECOND that the stuff you just read above this post is about anything other than that....WHEN it comes to the lib politicians who bring this to us..
ANYONE can get on this site and give us your compasson and caring for the little guy, buts its another when you have to pay for it and then sustain it as the liberal powers that be change it later and tell you what you can have done, WHEN it can be done and WHO can do it.....and now lets see if we can make it through the following reguritated hatred of someone believing that the government has no business in the health care business....
and lets see, one BRILLIANT aspect of hillary's program is if you DONT WaNt it...thats tough shit.....she will have it garnished from your wages....NOW ONE OF YOU SMART LIBS TELL ME HOW THAT "AINT" SOCIALISM......and at least...government interference in my personal life

it just warms my cockles

The cockles of BL2's heart--now there's a disturbing image.

BcBush Act III, no surprises here.

this will be a problem for mccain..i was considering voting for him but this is a deal breaker.

Good idea , seeing as it has failed miserably everywhere else , and yes , those that don't have medical insurance can go fuck themselves , or do like the rest of us and get a fucking job , and get insurance .You fucking commies need to pull your heads out of your asses . If people can't afford insurance , they should'nt have kids , they should get sterilized , so society does'nt have to foot the bill .They should'nt be buying house they can't afford ,I don't want to support fucking illegals , there should be open hunting season on them , I don't want the schools overwelmed with them , it's bad enough the blacks have to be bused to nicer districts , nicer schools paid for by those who want to work , white , black ,red , purple , I don't give a rat's ass , but to waste fuel bussing them to areas that they degrade is bull shit .I'm sick of the fucking al sharpton quota system of illegitmate blacks , just for the sake of producing more human debris , is bullshit . I do not want to pay their way , fuck'em .

"Good idea , seeing as it has failed miserably everywhere else "

Except, of course, everywhere.

The UK spends about half it's GDP on health care compared to the US (8% vs. 15%, iirc), yet covers all its citizens.

Yup, miserable failure.

But it seems you see more value in billions in Iraq rather than saving American lives.

Iraqis have socialized medicine, courtesy GWB. Maybe the uninsured should pretend to have WMD too.

Like McCain, BL2 has his most excellent coverage.

The rest of you can go to hell.




Rightnut, How's your coverage? What's the premium? Have you had to use your insurance?

"Never really understood the libs' penchant for wanting to turn over the most visceral and primal responsibilities to the government--health care, shelter, food, physical protection. ... If Americans want to vote for "free" government health care, we'll get exactly what we pay for."

I presume that RisR will be able to opt out of the government ever assumes responsibility for the health of its citizens. The rest is arrogance simply beyond belief. It is a short step from "let 'em eat cake." Marie Antoninette opposed socialized bread too. herm

There are countries out there that spend less per capita on their entire universal-coverage comparable-lifespan health systems than we do *just on the billing, profit, and overhead of the system to deny coverage to some people*. South Korea and New Zealand fall below that line, though most universal-care countries spend less than half per-capita what the US does.

It flat out makes America uncompetitive, and small businesses less competitive against larger ones.

This is a serious national security issue and McCain is essentially washing his hands of it.

We have 50 Million American's without health insurance. That means they are not getting preventive care and early diagnosis of disease.

When the next pandemic is developing it will be these 50 Million who will put off seeking treatment but will instead go to work where they could infect many more.

When that happens then Bin Laden is his buddies won't have to plot out how to hit us with a biological attack. We would have already done it to ourselves.

And in the next breath (almost) BLT calls a national health plan "socialism." The old standby. If it does something for people, it's socialistic. I presume that he (?) will join RisR (hell, they may be the same person) on the opt-out list.

The illiterate version of BLT is Rightnut. I wonder if BLT, who does know words of two syllables, agrees with:

"... those that don't have medical insurance can go fuck themselves or ... get a fucking job and... insurance. You fucking commies need to pull your heads out of your asses. If people can't afford insurance , they should'nt have kids, they should get sterilized, so society does'nt have to foot the bill. They should'nt be buying house they can't afford, I don't want to support fucking illegals , there should be open hunting season on them , I don't want the schools overwelmed with them , it's bad enough the blacks have to be bused to nicer districts ... I do not want to pay their way , fuck'em . " herm

I never understood the rights desire to tell the public to go fuck themselves when they can't afford health care and then try to tell them who to fuck, when to pray, who to marry and when to have children---then claim they are for individual freedoms.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob
* * * *

Me either. Tell you what---I won't do any of those things. In return, don't ask me to pay for your health care.

Marie Antoninette opposed socialized bread too. herm

Posted by herm
* * * *

So do I.

"Vote Democrat. It's easier than buying your own bread."

"If people can't afford insurance , they should'nt have kids, they should get sterilized, so society does'nt have to foot the bill."

Sounds like you'd fit in perfectly with China's communist government RightNut. They implemented your policy years ago.

Rightnut's a closet commie?

Who could have foreseen?

A lot of Dumbya's compassionate conservatism going on here...

I don't want to buy your bread either, Yomelib. Is that uncompassionate enough?

MRI in Japan (a private system) $98.
MRI in USA (a corrupt private system) $1200.

Insulin in Africa $3.
Insulin in USA $600.

What is wrong with this picture? Is there really such a thing as a free market? Who can possibly believe that horseshit?

Funny, I thought the Republicans were the party of big government?

what a vile pos. He is basically saying F#$K you if you can't afford insurance. I say f the repubs who support these evil ideas

What would these Rtards say if one of thier children developed lukemia? Insurance companies are scrambling to raise the co-pay on the insanely overpriced medications needed to keep cancer patients alive. Especially leukemia patients. I'm sure RiR would have no problem paying $30,000 a year to keep his kid alive each year and would never complain a bit.

And to whoever asked, McCain has never thought about health insurance his entire life. From his birth to the present, the US TAXPAYER has completely footed the bill for everything except the care he received in NVA during his incarceration. His daddy was military, he was military, and at no time did he ever have to worry about health care.

there are already ENOUGH health care plans in place available to families who cannot afford it.

right here in arkansas, there is ARKkids - a health plan for people making less than $38,000 per year - ten dollar copayment paid for by OUR tax dollars.

get a clue people before all you drones are paying health care for people who refuse to work.

we have to pay for our own health care, in addition to the health care of others.

RIR

Why should I pay for an army to protect a pants pisser like you?

BBob,

You don't have to pay for the whole army. Just give RiR a poster of a nude Jeff Gannon holding a M16 and a couple of hand grenades and he'll be happy as a pig in shit.

"a health plan for people making less than $38,000 per year "

Singles, or families with children?

NANC,

Do you honestly think that a family of 5 making 39K a year can afford health insurance? Even in Arkansas?

What about the 39 other states that aren't as progressive as Arkansas and don't even have a plan that good?

And what happens when the working parent gets sick? Do they just have to suck it up and die?

You Selfish bastards really are the scum of the earth. Jesus wouldn't even piss on you if you were on fire.

total, danforth. people with children. or person with children - there must be children involved.

it's only $45.00 for dental/vision insurance here - get a clue! people CHOOSE to stay down. why should we pay for their choices?

axe - it's a state plan for people with children - there's also a plan to help small business people with offering health insurance plans to their employees. MY POINT IS THERE ARE PLANS WITHIN YOUR STATE TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE LESS FORTUNATE! check it out!

"people CHOOSE to stay down"

Can you taste the stupid when you post shit like that?

I never understood the rights desire to tell the public to go fuck themselves when they can't afford health care. . .then claim they are for individual freedoms.

You don't? Let me help you. "Universal" = everyone. "Individual" = one person.

Get it now?

Buffalo Bob wrote,

"I never understood the rights desire to tell the public to go fuck themselves when they can't afford health care and then try to tell them who to fuck, when to pray, who to marry and when to have children---then claim they are for individual freedoms."

Actually Bob government intervention into health care is exactly why it has become so unaffordable in the first place. If it weren't for medicare and medicaid hospitals and doctors would have to charge patients reasonable rates in the first place. With these government subsidies they are more easily able to just charge uninsured patients outrageous prices.

Bee Swell

crackpipejunkie

I guess you never wondered why it works so well in every other fucking country on the planet.

NANC,

You live in a dream world if you think that plan is helping the working man. It might be better than nothing for a single mother with one kid, but real working people can't qualify for those plans. ANYWHERE. They make too much to qualify but not nearly enough to pay $250/week for a family health plan.

You claim to be in a working family. Do you have health insurance that you pay for? What percentage of your take home pay is eaten up by it? What would happen if one of your kids had CP or Leukemia? How soon would your coverage stop? What happens if the wage earner paying for the insurance has a stroke and can never work again and runs up a 2 million dollar hospital bill? (Don't laugh, it happened to a friend of mine. 3 months in intensive care is not cheap.)

Do you think your hand might be out for a little Socialized Medicine at that point?

BBob,

Please ignore CrackPipeJohnson and maybe he will go away.

I guess you never wondered why it works so well

Probably because it doesn't.

Goat,
Name one country with worse health care for working families than the USA. By that, I mean a family of 5 making $40k a year.

What would happen if one of your kids had CP or Leukemia?

Everytime this topic comes up and I hear things like this, I wonder why people think they are entitled to health care? I'm a diabetic. It's not cheap to keep my blood sugar under control. But why is that the public's problem?

I wonder why people think they are entitled to health care?

Wow!

I wonder who you think is entitled to health care. Frankly it is astonishing that you feel healthcare is an entitlement in the first place.

Name one country with worse health care

According my aunt (who is quite the socialist, BTW) who lives there, the UK.

Goat,

You have proven beyond a doubt that you are the stupidest fuck in on the planet.

WE ARE DISCUSSING INSURANCE you feeble fuck. Insurance spreads the risk across a population so that when one person has a problem he is not totally screwed. I am happy to contribute to a system where you can get you medicine, whether it is free or at a reduced cost. I don't care. I do this because some day I might need help.

In a civilized society that is the way it is supposed to work. In your Rtard little selfish bastard mind, who knows what happens. Not much, I expect.

UNIVERSAL COVERAGE IS INSURANCE THAT SPREADS THE RISK ACROSS ALL PEOPLE. This is fair.

Frankly it is astonishing that you feel healthcare is an entitlement in the first place.

???

I don't. That was my point. Did you read my post?

Does your aunt actually believe that she is worse off that a family of 5 with no health coverage at all? She may have to wait months to get a free boob job and complains. The mother here has to decide whether to feed her kids this month or get a mamogram for that lump in her left breast.

UNIVERSAL COVERAGE IS INSURANCE THAT SPREADS THE RISK ACROSS ALL PEOPLE. This is fair.

Well, I think everyone should be able to eat steak once a week. So everyone who eats it everyday should spread it around so that everyone gets some. Let's do the same for home insurance. Let's spread that risk. That way I can buy a bigger home, yet not have to pay more insurance for it.

Ain't socialism great!?!

According my aunt (who is quite the socialist, BTW) who lives there, the UK.

According to my manager friend for British airways the healthcare their is great, better than here.

"Probably because it doesn't."

The UK spends about half the GDP as compared to America on health (8% to 15%, iirc), yet it covers everyone. The French spend a lower percentage than us as well, cover everyone, and is ranked #1 by the WHO. The US comes in 37th. Sure, not everyone gets Cadillac Care, but no one loses their home and life savings, either.

The mother here has to decide whether to feed her kids this month or get a mamogram for that lump in her left breast.

So you feel that everyone's personal tragedies should be paid for by the public? Or just health related tragedies? If so, why limit it to health related tragedies? Are they more important than, say, if my house was destroyed by a tornado and I did not have insurance to cover it? Why?

According to my manager friend for British airways the healthcare their is great, better than here.


Lucky him. Just goes to show another fault in that system: Some people are treated better than others.

I don't. That was my point.

I know, that was my point, did you read my post?

Lets keep this real simple, and not mess around with arguments or kind words. I will state it blatantly.

Question: You want my tax money to pay for other people's responsibility to protect their own family from injury and sickness?

Answer: Fuck you. Thats what Charity is for, not Government.

there, now you know where I stand. One more time for liberals, so they get it:

Fuck you.

Kuma

Ain't socialism great!?!

Posted by goatman at 2008-04-29 01:36 AM | Reply



Fine. Guess you should'nt pay taxes either...since they go to cops, firefighters, raods, and sidewalks aming other "socialist" things.

If you truly can't tell the difference between wanting health care that doesn't destroy a family financially, or everyone eating steak, then you're an idiot. Frankly, I don't think a kid should have his life ruined cuz someone in the family got sick, and the HMO's/Insurance companies are greedy motherfuckers.

We pay WAY more for health insurance than most countries and get LESS for the result overall. So the question is: Do you want a very few people to be well at a high cost, or do you want everyone to get the same care at a fraction of what we pay now?

Goat,

You really can't be all that thick!!! It is called Universal Health Care. Everyone pays, everyone is covered. It is a simple concept that works.

Stupid fucks like you lie or pretend to be too stupid to understand the concept.

And if your house is eaten by a tornado and you don't have insurance, FEMA will be along in a few weeks to write you a check. That is already in place and you pants pissers usually are first to bitch about that, too.

Lucky him. Just goes to show another fault in that system: Some people are treated better than others.

Yep, at least they are getting treated, a might better than our current system.

Your afraid of losing your entitlement in the avenue of having to share it with those who don't have it.

Kuma/Johnson/CPJ,
Go fuck yourselves. The adults are trying to explain a simple concept to a very thick goat.

"You want my tax money to pay for other people's responsibility to protect their own family"

Yes. It's called the police, the fire department, the military....

I loved it when McCain, responding to Elizabeth Edwards comment that all of America would just love McCain's own gov't health care for themselves, referred to it as a "cheap shot".

Is Medicade considered evil socialism as well?

I guess when families can't pay for grandma to live in the nursing home she should hit the streets. And if she needs heart medication there's always prostitution.

WTF is it with people bitching about having to pay to help others? Cuz they're are hangers on that don't pay as much? Tough shit. ANY system you come up with is going to have freeloaders, be it the neighborhood watch or medicare ect ect... but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We all have to pay for shit we don't use. It's called being a responsible adult. Get over it.

Who said that everyone is entitled to health care in this country and on what do they base that tenet?

re:"You want my tax money to pay for other people's responsibility to protect their own family"

Yes. It's called the police, the fire department, the military....

That's also a "cheap shot", Danforth!

Hey, um dumbfuck Danfuck.

Police, fire and military?

Your comparing military and police to getting sick?

Are you a fucking 3 year old, or just ignorant.

AXE,

Fuck you, and fuck you 100x more. When McBush wins in 08, I am going to mock your ass 100x worse.

I was on a plane flying back from Hawaii in 04 when they announced Bush won again. All I could hear out of like 200 people on the plane was like maybe 20 groans from the stupid liberals who had no tact.

So what did Kuma do to prove his worth?

Out loud, in a firm voice I said

"Kerry SUCKS, GET OVER IT"

And you know what? not a damn democrat said a word, because your all spineless sea cucumber wussies with no backbone.

Kuma

they're = there are.

McCain just lost any chance he might have had at the election with this move.

Wait 'till the Swift Boating start!!!

100 years of free health care for the Iraqis but not one penny for US Citizens. Unless you are married to a rich trollop and cunt.

And if your house is eaten by a tornado and you don't have insurance, FEMA will be along in a few weeks to write you a check.

Geez, I didn't know that. I'm cancelling my home owner's insurance tomorrow!

Kuma/Johnson,

Please crawl back up GZ's bunghole.

Your comparing military and police to getting sick?

Are you a fucking 3 year old, or just ignorant.


OK. So the military and police can protect us from each other and outside dangers, but the govt says "fuck you" when you get cancerous tumors?

Interesting.

Keep in mind the asshole selling universal healthcare as socialism(McCain) has better healthcare than you will ever have. For the rest of his life. Oh, and you paid for his awesome healthcare.

So are you 3 years old or just ignorant?

Spoken like a true Republican.

Who said that everyone is entitled to health care in this country and on what do they base that tenet?

Posted by goatman at 2008-04-29 01:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Where in the Constitution is there anything about a Fire Department? I don't think it exists, and yet we as a people decided it was - given the circumstances- a really fucking good idea.

"Police, fire and military? Your comparing military and police to getting sick?"

I'm pointing out those most afraid of "socialized" medical care have no problem with the other "socialized" aspects of our society: police & fire protection, food inspection, clean air & water, roads, and the military, to name a few.

"When McBush wins in 08, I am going to mock your ass 100x worse."

Bwahahaha! When McBush loses, The Poster Known As Kuma will slink away forever, or devise yet another handle.

And if your house is eaten by a tornado and you don't have insurance, FEMA will be along in a few weeks to write you a check.


I think any kid with stupid or unlucky parents should just be homeless when their house is destroyed. Fuck em, right?

Where in the Constitution is there anything about a Fire Department?

No where. Excellent point. That's why there are no federally funded fire departments. They are municipally funded.

Thank you.

Goat- So municipally funded healthcare would be Ok with you?

Federal or state or local, it's all coming out of the same people, goat. American Taxpayers.

"They are municipally funded."

Socialists!

Goatman-
There are federally funded fire departments, just as there are federally funded police services, and federal health care plans for our lovely senators.

I'll say this one more time, you painfully slow goat:

It is not federally funded. EVERYONE PAYS for it. Right now the best vehicle we have to administer it is Medicaid, a system run by the insurance companies in 50 states. Trying to spread it out to municipalities would be so stupid that only a Republican could think of it.

I'd be cool with local plans that could collaborate in negotiation with drug companies, etc.

Goat- So municipally funded healthcare would be Ok with you?

Yep.

They are municipally funded

What a sad defense.

There are federally funded fire departments

WHere?

Goatman- You'd still have to pay for other people's healhtcare either way, so why do you care if it's federal or municipal?

That makes no sense...

It is not federally funded. EVERYONE PAYS for it

The feds mandate it. They collect the money from EVERYONE. They distribute it.

Sounds federally funded to me.

Goatman-
In all of the armed services, for one.

We already have municipally funded health care. It is called being too poor to have insurance and you go to the emergency room for everything and the city pays for it.

Dosn't work to well for working families who don't want handouts, though.

And it is expensive as hell.

Don't believe me, just go to any big city hospital emergency room and take a look around.

And Goat is not lying, he really does prefer this system.

Trying to spread it out to municipalities would be so stupid that only a Republican could think of it

It wouldn't have to be spread out over all municipalities. Only the ones who want it.

That's the beauty of legislation at the lowest level of government. There is not a one size fits all. Our founding fathers knew that. That is why they were against big government.

What a sad defense.

NOt a defense, a belief.

How sad you think I'm being defensive.

So instead of paying $1000/month for your family's health insurance and another 6-7% of you paycheck for Medicare, why not pay a flat 10 or 12% for everything?

Makes too much sense unless you are not a working man with a family to support. The bottom line is that the system would be cheaper for everyone except Warren Buffet and his buddies.

Hey, I need the government to fund my loans on my 8 properties, since its kind of expensive.

Can you pay for that danfuck and alexanfuck?

These liberals are idiots.

Hey dandumb, the federal government does not have a fire department, as Goatman already told you.

I bet you feel like an idiot don't you? Wait, your mom told you that too many times, its ingrained in you now.

Kuma

Goatman- You'd still have to pay for other people's healhtcare either way, so why do you care if it's federal or municipal?

That makes no sense...

I can't believe you don't get this. Was Civics not a mandatory course in your HS?

No, I would not still have to pay for other's healt care as you claim. At least not unless I wanted to.

If I live in a city that has laws that I don't like, (llike mandatory health care) I move to another one.

Goatman-
In all of the armed services, for one.

The armed services are specifically authorized by the constitution. If they see fit to have a fire department, then the US taxpayers have to pay for it.

Please tell me this was simply a weak deflection. I know you aren't that dense.

" I need the government to fund my loans on my 8 properties, since its kind of expensive. Can you pay for that"

No one is suggesting that. No one has, either.

Feds also federally fund the construction of new firehouses sometimes. Take idaho falls(ID) for example.

Does this firehouse serve a federal interest such as the National Forest Service? Or is it strictly for the local town.

Hey, I need the government to fund my loans on my 8 properties, since its kind of expensive.


Yes, because that's EXACTLY the same as you going bankrupt for testicular cancer treatments because insurance companies denied your claims...since they wanted to save money.

OTOH, you don't really have any balls, so don't worry about it.

Goatman- I'm fairly confident that most municipalities would do universal healthcare if the govt denied it to them for another 10 years and the insurance costs got worse. Then where will you move? Nevermind the fact that no matter where you live...you're paying for some homeless guy's trip to the ER whether you like it or not.

Did they teach you that in High school? Thought not.

Seriously goatman...who do you think pays for ER visits by poor people?

You do. Get over it.

Danforth, your wrong again.

The democrats want to immediately step in and fund all homeowners in trouble.

I can be in "trouble" real quick when I know the government will save me.

you get it yet? Dandumb?

Goatman is owning you guys, everything you say is not factually correct, its your emotion talking.

Typical libs, emotional decision makers. Too bad Goatman has a thinking brain, while you all don't.

He just owned you guys several fold over, and you STILL DONT UNDERSTAND.

I laugh in all your faces, your all fools.

Kuma

Seriously goatman...who do you think pays for ER visits by poor people?

You do. Get over it.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-04-29 02:27 AM

Goatman claims that he shouldn't pay for it, so I guess he would turn people away from emergency care even.

Would you, Goatman?

The Federal Fire Department was established in 1982 and is currently the largest fire department
in the Department of Defense (DOD).

As I said upthread betelg, the military is spelled out in the constitution. If they see fit to have fire departments, we the taxpayers have to fund it. You do know that the Department of Defense is the military, right?

I'm jumping in for one post.

Medicaid paid for by the states is not the solution. The burden is not distributed fairly as some states have a much higher Medicaid cost than others. California is going broke paying for their uninsured and/or very low income on Medicaid.

Instead, solve this whole problem of no insurance through use of the Medicare program and expand it to everyone -- not just those on Social Security. Medicare is already in place and you can choose your own physicians. Medicare is not free. Medicare costs about $100 a month and pays 80% of the cost with the patient (or extra supplemental insurance policy) covering the other 20% so it's not a handout.

Stop letting Bush control and fix at a high cost the price of prescription drugs as a payback to the big pharmaceutical companies as he has been doing. Let prescription drugs be negotiated by Medicare the same way the VA negotiates for the price of drugs.

And stop Bush from continually cutting back the amount of hospital and physician Medicare fees as he has done every year since he's been in office. Bush is driving physicians out of their chosen professions and/or into retirement as he has slashed funds to Medicare by huge percentages. This is a fact.

later

Hey doesn't the US Forestry Service have their own Federally Funded Fire Departments??

Larry Mohr

Seriously goatman...who do you think pays for ER visits by poor people?

You do. Get over it.

I know I do. I can't stop that. I don't want to pay for everyone else as well.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why everyone in this country is entitled to health care and on what do they base that tenet?

I'm diabetic. I spend a lot of my own money to manage my blood sugar. Why should you have to pay for that?

Goatman-
Um...this is a fire department for a city, yet funded by the DOD. Hence, a municipal (backup) fire department funded federally.

How do you feel about turning people away at the emergency room door?

Goatman claims that he shouldn't pay for it, so I guess he would turn people away from emergency care even.

Posted by BetelG at 2008-04-29 02:29 AM | Reply | Flag:


Nah. A guy dying from a gunshot wound should just drive to the ER in another municipality. Think of all the money our economy saves from the people that don't survive the trip.

"I don't want to pay for everyone else as well."

Studies have shown folks with health care don't use the ER as a first option. I've sat on health committees for over a decade; we see that all the time.

Goatman- I'm fairly confident that most municipalities would do universal healthcare if the govt denied it to them for another 10 years and the insurance costs got worse. Then where will you move?

Well, if that happens in 10 years, it happens. That doesn't mean I have to support it today, does it?

"Why should you have to pay for that?"

We all have a stake in your health.

"Why should you have to pay for that?"

Because you need it, and as a fellow citizen you're my political brother. If you can afford it, then fine, but - as current conditions perpetuated by you exist - if you were to show up at the emergency room without ability to pay, I wouldn't wish you turned away.

Hey doesn't the US Forestry Service have their own Federally Funded Fire Departments??

Yes they do, Larry. Forest fire prevention is one of their missions.

I'm diabetic. I spend a lot of my own money to manage my blood sugar. Why should you have to pay for that?

Posted by goatman at 2008-04-29 02:34 AM | Reply | Flag:


Because leaving the cost to insurance companies and private buyers(you) doesn't work. It might 'work' for you, but people are dying because they can't receive the medications or doctor visitations they need. The insurance companies have turned into a giant monster that is gobbling everyday people up, goatman.

We've tried it your way. It sucks.

If my tax money can stop people from croaking because an insurance company wants to cut costs, then so be it. Otherwise, what do we even have a govt for?

"Well, if that happens in 10 years, it happens. "

It probably will; the economies of scale will demand it. The current models peg medical inflation to mirror regular inflation. Anybody here believe that?

How do you feel about turning people away at the emergency room door?

Depends on what it was for and who they are.

Alex,

I laughed at your 2:34...sadly.

Is there a tragically funny flag?

"That's why there are no federally funded fire departments. They are municipally funded."

-Goatman, just not too long ago...

We all have a stake in your health.

No you don't. If I die, they'll find another ET to take my place and keep the oil rig running. Someone will buy my house and pay its taxes. Believe it or not, I am replaceable. *grin*

Goatman-
re: "Depends on what it was for and who they are."

What if they are you, you are possibly dying, and you can't pay?

"your all fools."

Are you really that dumb?

Hey, Kumface, try to remember the first rule of blogging:

When insulting someone else's intelligence, try not to spell it stoopid.

We've tried it your way. It sucks

I don't necessarily agree, except for excessive lawsuits, but maybe the focus should be on fixing the current way instead of sliding closer to socialism

Goatman-
God forbid socialism:

It's you, you are possibly dying, and you can't pay. Should you be turned away from the emergency room?

What if they are you, you are possibly dying, and you can't pay?

I don't want to sound contrived or like I'm avoiding the question, but dying of what? A stab wound by a mugger? Yes, that is a societal issue. Dying of cardiovascular disease because I don't take care of my health? No

I really want you to answer that question, Goatman. It's really more out of curiosity at this point than snark or belligerence.

Believe it or not, I am replaceable.

In your job, yes. As a person?

No.

So your plan is to have folks fill out a lengthy questionnaire while bleeding to death?

Just dying. But you must consider the issue - regardless of the cause - that you would be treated if you could pay.

Should payment be the deciding factor in health care?

Goatman-
I don't think you've thought this through.

So your plan is to have folks fill out a lengthy questionnaire while bleeding to death?

I'm no doctor, but if someone is bleeding to death my guess would be that it is more likely from a stab wound than a cardiovascular disease.

Goat- so are bad genes a societal issue?

Or do we just turn away the guy that ate at mcdonalds once too often?

"I'm no doctor, but if someone is bleeding to death my guess would be that it is more likely from a stab wound than a cardiovascular disease."

Okay...not bleeding, but having a heart attack. Must you discern the root cause before proceeding?

Dying of cardiovascular disease because I don't take care of my health? No

Posted by goatman at 2008-04-29 02:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

Like I said, ANY system human beings create will have hangers on. Those who get more benefit from the system than they put in it. But you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you'd like to start doing that, my blue state wants the tax money, that went to most red states roads and bridges, back.

And maybe rural electrification was a shitty idea, now that you mention it...

"I'm no doctor, but if someone is bleeding to death my guess would be that it is more likely from a stab wound than a cardiovascular disease."

It's clear that you are not a doctor, as you confuse the ethical code of conduct of doctors with the moral equivalent of a Marquis de Sade in his first year toward a degree in economics.

Dying of cardiovascular disease because I don't take care of my health? No

Posted by goatman at 2008-04-29 02:48 AM | Reply | Flag:


Ah. but to even KNOW the root cause of the persons failing health, an ER will perform many expensive diagnostics. And you'll be paying for those even if they refused the man care for making bad choices, as is your wish.

So how do you solve that problem?

Should payment be the deciding factor in health care?

Most everything else that benefits us as individuals is decided by what we can pay. Why should health care be any different?

So should we all get the excellent health care that the president, senators, and the rich get? That would be impossible to pay for. That being the case, will we make sure the that their standard of health care is lowered?

Reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut book (can't remember which one, I read 'em all 30 years ago) that everyone was equal. Those with excellent eyesight had to wear vision crippling glasses. Those who were stronger had to carry weights all the time.