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But there is reason to question whether he would be able to perform at average levels with other main pillars of the traditional Democratic coalition: blue-collar whites, Jews and Hispanics. He has run decently among these groups in some places, but in general he's run well behind her.

Obama lost the Jewish vote by double-digits in Florida, New York and Maryland -- and that was before controversy over anti-Israel remarks of Wright.

An undecided Democratic superdelegate told us many Jewish voters are itching for a reason to break with the party and side with Republicans, who have embraced the Israeli cause with passion. A small shift could swing swing states like Florida and Pennsylvania, which have significant Jewish populations.
Obama won only about one-third of Hispanic votes on Super Tuesday -- and did even worse a month later in Texas. A Democratic nominee needs big margins with Hispanics to win states like New Mexico, California, Colorado and Arizona. In the fall, Obama would be running against a Republican with a record on immigration that will resonate with Hispanics.

Then there's the lower-income white vote. Does it seem odd that a woman with a polarizing reputation would be rolling up enormous margins among some of the country's most traditional voters? Three out of every four blue-collar whites in small towns and rural areas of Ohio voted for Clinton over Obama on March 4. The reality is, this is already an electorate with deep cultural divisions -- and that's in the Democratic Party.

Cornell Belcher, Obama's pollster, says most of these voting blocs will unite when the Democratic fighting is done. "You get a snapshot at the height of a battle within the family but after the family squabbles history shows that the family does come back together," he said.

Fair enough. But McCain would be challenging Obama on a range of issues that would complicate this coming together -- issues that Clinton did not use or used minimally because they were not particularly effective in a Democratic campaign.

McCain, by contrast, would have a free hand to exploit a paper trail showing Obama's evolution -- opponents would say reversals -- over the past decade from liberal positions on gun control, the death penalty and Middle East politics. He would exploit Obama's current position in favor of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants and beginning diplomatic talks with U.S. adversaries like the dictators of Iran and Venezuela. Will those issues help lower-income white voters "come back together" with Obama?

Those issues are all in-bounds. What about the issues that most journalists and probably McCain himself will consider out-of-bounds but that, if recent history is any guide, will echo nonetheless in the general election?

The last two Democratic nominees, Al Gore and John F. Kerry, were both military veterans, and both had been familiar, highly successful figures in national politics for more than two decades by the time they ran.

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Both men lost control of their public images to the right-wing freak show -- that network of operatives and commentators working mostly outside of the mainstream media -- and ultimately lost their elections as many voters came to see them as elitist, out-of-touch, phony, and even unpatriotic.

Obama is a much less familiar figure than Kerry or Gore, with a life story that is far more exotic, who is coming out of a political milieu in Chicago politics that is far more liberal.

The freak show has already signaled its early lines of attack on Obama. Polls show a significant percentage of Americans believe -- falsely -- that he is a Muslim. Voter interviews reveal widespread unease with minor and seemingly irrelevant questions like why he does not favor American flag pins on his lapel. Nor have we heard the last about Wright and his fulminations.

Here will be the real kitchen sink: every damaging comment or association from Obama's past, mixed together with innuendo and downright fiction, to portray him as an an exotic character of uncertain values and weak patriotism.

Obama's advisers say they are not naive about freak show attacks. Their response is that Obama's appeal to a new brand of politics, and his personal poise and self-confidence, will allow him to transcend attacks and stereotypes in ways that Gore and Kerry could not.

Obama is indeed poised and self-confident. But the current uproar over his impromptu sociology lesson in San Francisco about "bitter" voters in Pennsylvania raise questions about his self-discipline, and his understanding of how easy it is for a politicians in modern politics to lose control of his or her public image.

Clinton has her own baggage, to put it mildly. But it's been rummaged through for years, so what Democrats see is pretty much what they would get.

The frustration emanating from the Clintonites comes from being unable to say in public what they think in private.

Little wonder why. Bill Clinton's comments comparing Obama's support in South Carolina to Jesse Jackson's were certainly impolitic. But it's absurd to contend, as many Democrats indignantly do, that they amounted to a shocking low blow or to "playing the race card."

The reaction underscored the essential prissiness of the Democratic contest so far. One can be sure the general election will not be such a delicate affair.

....."the party's over....it's time to call it a day...."

Wow Corky, waiting up until just after midnight so you can get ONE MORE thread in.

If nothing else, I admire your dedication.

Hellary thinks She is entitled to the Nomination just because of Who She is and not anything else. She is NOT WORTHY. As a matter of fact She is what is ruining the Democratic Party. Utterly disgraceful.

Larry Mohr

She is sunk. The deathwatch has given her a less than 10% chance of winning the nomination. Get real Hillary.

"If nothing else, I admire your dedication."

It's more like Tourette's Syndrome, Ness. As in OCD and ADHD.

Didn't there used to be a cartoon with a with Chester, the little, bouncy, yappy dog that flitted between the feet of big bulldog Spike? "Hey Spike! Hey Spike! What should we do next, Spike? Did I do good, spike?" He's annoying and constantly trying to get Spike's approval. If you tell Chester to shut up he might shut up for about a minute then pop right back up (as Seaton Begg?) again.

Thats the one Larry. Spike and Corky, errr, I mean Chester.

The Hillary campaign has turned itself into the Republican campaign against Obama after he gets the nomination.

"The Clintons are trying to inflict death by paper cuts to Obama in the face of mounting apathy. "Bitter" and "cling" aren't news. Obama doesn't hide his education and intelligence, even if they are dubbed elitist.

While the Clintons try to pretend that their own $100 million income makes them working class heroes, the polls move incrementally up and down. The bald fact is that Obama's integrity has registered with almost everyone he might attract, and the Democratic party has silently given up on Hillary."

-Deepak Chopra

Ah, that famous political Common Tater Deepak Chopra.

At least the post is substantive, instead of the pathetic whining above about what I post from the usual suspects.


"But it's absurd to contend, as many Democrats indignantly do, that they amounted to a shocking low blow or to "playing the race card."

The reaction underscored the essential prissiness of the Democratic contest so far. One can be sure the general election will not be such a delicate affair."

This article from the Lefties at Politico blows away several popular myths such as, "the kitchen sink", "the race card", the unusual "nastiness" of this contest, and the myth that the Clintons have hit Obama with everything they could have.

When the primaries are over and there is very little difference in delegate count and popular vote between these candidates, SDs will take into account when they vote who can best win in the fall.

Having alienated much of the Dem base as described in the article, and having disenfranchised voters in FL and MI, and having supplied the GOP with more TV ad material they could have ever possibly hoped for, Obama has done himself or his Party no favors.

"Having alienated much of the Dem base..."

You talking about THIS "Dem base", Corky..? With this group behind him, how could anyone not vote for Obama?

"Jodie Evans, a Code Pink leader, gathered at least $50,000 from friends and associates and donated it to Obama's presidential campaign, according to information compiled by the nonpartisan watchdog group, Public Citizen.

Evans and her son, a student who lives at her Southern California address, each also gave the maximum individual allowable donation of $2,300 to Obama's campaign.

The donations have raised questions about Obama's association with the more radical elements of his base. Code Pink has harassed, vandalized and impeded military recruiters across the United States in a campaign it calls "counter-recruitment." The group also gave $600,000 to the families of Iraqi terrorists in Fallujah, whom it called "insurgents" fighting for their homes.

Evan's radical ideology fit with the other founders of Code Pink, which is notorious for its attempts to shut down the Berkeley Marine Recruiting Center, occupying congressional offices, intimidating families of soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq, attacking opponents and disrupting Congress while dressed in Pepto Bismol-colored outfits." by Catherine Moy

"Having alienated much of the Dem base as described in the article,"

Apparently from some of the latest polls both in PA and nationwide, as well as interviews with PA voters, that may not be as true as you would love it to be.

Corky, your hysteria is out of control.

NOBODY except the Democratic Party has had anything to do with voters in Florida or Michigan and whether they are dienfranchised

Did anybody see the author of this piece get hammered by Chris Mathews last night? You should have seen him squirm. Basically Mathews called him out and said this is a piece that the Clintons wanted "out there" and that they used Politico - which is unabashedly pro-Hillary (i.e., Ben Smith's blog) - to get the message out. Now campaigns do this kind of stuff all of the time, but it was funny to watch this guy squirm last night and try to deflect.

On that I have to go, final day of tax season. I'll check in with you guys and gals later on this week, if I still have my sanity.

You mean like the latest poll in Indiana showing her with a 16 point lead? Or the latest poll from PA showing not only a 20 point lead, but that 23 percent credited his ads with their decision against him?

That must really chap his scrawny ass, spending millions on ads that turn people off to him. Rudy Obamiani.

But, as no one seems to have any relevant argument against the Politico writers popping so many Obamyths in this article, then I guess they must be right.

"NOBODY except the Democratic Party has had anything to do with voters in Florida or Michigan and whether they are dienfranchised

Posted by sitdown"

Obama, unlike Clinton, has refused to call for re-votes in Fl and MI. The DNC won't act on legit re-votes without both candidates.

So Obama has essentially disenfranchised voters in those states, voters who will not be there for him in the fall.

"Chris Mathews and he loves, or seems to love, Obama."

Ol' Tingle Thighs announced on Colbert last night that he has since childhood wanted to be a Senator (lmfao!), and all but threw his hat into the ring.

Oh, and Corky - the "latest" poll which is Quinsipiac shows Clinton with about the same lead as before - 6 points. And Gallup shows Obama still up by 10 nationwide with this issue having little or no impact.

Sorry.

*Quinnipiac

Ok I really have to go, but I can tell you right now (and I have been wanting to come here and post but have been slammed) that this "bitter" thing isn't going to hurt Obama and he will still come out with the nomination no matter how desperately the hard drinking Hillary Clinton tries to undermine him. The fact that she is now throwing other Democrats under the bus - Al Gore, John Kerry, and Teddy Kennedy to name a few - shows that she can't unify this country let alone her own party, and the SDs are going to be turned off by her "my way or fuck you, I don't care if you are a fellow dem" mentality.

Corky what is so wrong with Obama standing on principle that Florida and Michigan Broke the rules and He believes in following that Mandate?? Seems Hellary wants to go against Her agreed upon stance cause She is stuck in the big muddy and sinking fast. Funny Dat Be.

Larry Mohr

What's wrong with following the DNC rules that allow for a re-vote?

Other than Obama might lose those elections and the nomination?

He endangers the entire Presidential election for Dems by not endorsing re-votes.

The only thing that will damage the Presidential Elections for the Democrats is Hellary and Her Karl Roves cheap shitty whiney shots towards Obama.

Larry Mohr

Corky Lieberman is just pissed off because she's backed a loser. Her brother Joe Lieberman has now come out to question whether Obama is a Marxist and that he's far to the left of his positions. Given that Lieberman's are pocket Republican's that just means that Obama is a centrist.

Hmmm, still no counter to the arguments in the article, eh?

Must be true then.

Honestly, why should I respond to you with anything other than snark, derision and contempt? You're just another Rovian partisan that refuses to answer one simple question.

Um, what question is that?

"Hmmm, still no counter to the arguments in the article, eh? Must be true then."

The sun rises each morning, passes across the heavens, sets in the west each evening. This goes on, day after day, week after week, month and after month, and, somehow, Corky McBegnstrip, you still manage to learn so very little.

Nobody is saying that the authors didn't say what they said. But a sufficient retort is to observe, "So what?" The same reaction your endless toadying for Hillary provokes.

The fact that people aren't interested in wasting a tremendous amount of time and effort arguing with you and dealing with your Billary Cheerleader's Tourette's says nothing about whether they agree or disagree with the points - let along whether those points possess or lack merit.

All it says is, they probably think tons of the stuff you're posting is bullshit.

So, you treat it like bullshit: You scrape it off your boot and move along.

But, gawd, it's fun to watch you whirl.

Careful, your petticoats are showing.

I bet Mr. Backpage 5 dollars he would not post my comment. He didn't. He owes me big time.

Um, what question is that?


Posted by Corky at 2008-04-15 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag


The same one that I've asked you multiple times over the last few weeks of months:

Will you, Corky Lieberman, vote for the eventual Democratic nominee be it Clinton or Obama?

Ok, I am going to try and sneak this one by Mr. Backpage's censor button.
"What Could Clinton Say?"
Being unable to pass a true and just word from her lips, and not being the required gender to publicly move said lips, (Monica L. deferment in effect), she should keep those lips closed.

IT MADE IT!!!

How special for you Ellis, I don't think you really understand the moderation policy here.

Sooooo, Doctor Strangelove wastes bandwidth but has no retort to these Obamyths being exploded either? Nor to the analysis about Obama's dismal performance among the Dem base?

Quelle surprise.

Reagan(IQ)

Perhaps you should drop the ad hominem when asking a question, then perhaps you could get an answer.

You are correct. Since I have not read the policy I can not understand the moderation policy, and further more, I do not care to read about the Moderation policy.

"no retort"

As I've told you on another thread, McBegnstrip, once you get yourself educated and actually undestand the meanings of some of the words you misuse, e.g. "retort," you won't look quite like the little lickspittle bootlicker you've become.

But, really, do play on.

And do, please, watch those petticoats.

Corky, will you vote for the eventual Democratic nominee be it Clinton or Obama?

I'm not sure yet, Reagan.

The first time I voted for Prez was for George McGovern, and both these candidates represent the Dem Platform which is overwhelmingly the policies of McGovern from so long ago.

And though I think it ridiculous that we not have both candidates in a Dream Ticket, giving us the first woman and the first black, firsts that may take another 20 years to accomplish, and which would give us the strong possibility of 16 years in the WH, the cynical opportunism Obama has exhibited by disenfranchising my vote in Fl may be enough to make me register independent and vote for Nader.

The only ones who disenfranchised the voters in Florida are the Florida Democrat leaders NOT Obama. Please do so ever try yet again Corky.

Larry Mohr

Fair enough. While I disagree with your thought of voting for Nader, I can understand your point. BTW my first presidential vote was for JFK.

I disagree with voting for Nader, too, lol, but I may have little other choice. Unfortunately, there are literally hundreds of thousands of Dems who will vote for McCain in FL and MI, likely giving him the nomination if Obama is the Dem candidate.

That is why some friends describe Clinton as seeing herself on a mission to save Democrats from themselves.

----

Pure elitism there. She knows better than other Democrats.

SHE HAS TO FIGHT LIKE A MAN.BRING IN THE SHOTGUN.Obama is a son of a bitch.Taking care the business,,,

Corky -- This is new news. I also heard that Barack Obama would lose Florida in a McCain v. Obama match, but Hillary Clinton would win a Clinton v. McCain match. Interesting.