israel has a roadmap they aint using.

iraq-get used to it.

Would that be like the road out of Germany and Japan?

I think we need a road map to get us out of debt and have a much smaller federal government.

Put that in your D-RI brain and act on it.

Senator: America Needs "Path out of Iraq"

No shit, Sherlock.

Unless Iraqis get a timetable they'll never achieve what we spent so much blood and treasure to help them achieve.

what are the iraqis supposed to do again?

Would that be like the road out of Germany and Japan?


Were there thousands of combat deaths after "mission accomplished" in Germany or Japan?

Didn't think so. Specious comparison.

Were there thousands of combat deaths after "mission accomplished" in Germany or Japan?
Didn't think so. Specious comparison.

Posted by ness_gadol

I don't know about that but we are still there and it's costing a bunch of money which you choose to overlook in Germany and Japan but not Iraq.

1993 .......... 1,213 (Clinton Year)
1994 .......... 1,075 (Clinton Year)
1995 .......... 2,465 (Clinton Year)
1996 .......... 2,318 (Clinton Year)
1997 ............ 817 (Clinton Year)
1998 .......... 2,252 (Clinton Year)
1999 .......... 1,984 (Clinton Year)
2000 ...........1,983 (Clinton Year)

2001 ............. 890 (George W Year)
2002 .......... 1,007 (George W Year)
2003 .......... 1,410 (George W Year)
2004 .......... 1,887 (George W Year)
2005 ............. 919 (George W Year)
2006.............. 920 (George W Year)
2007...............899 (George W Year)

Looks like we did worse under the Clinton peace years than we have doon under the Bush war years.

The Iraq War is like a virus-- it has spread its unhealthiness across the nation-- in the minds of ordinary people once predisposed toward rational thought and action. It confuses the conservative and liberal alike. It affects manner of thought and speech. It distorts the view of many. But most importantly, it slowly eats away at the fundamental strength that this nation was built on, one person at a time.

Iraq is like HIV. One you got it, you got it until either it kills you or you die of something else in the meantime.

Iraq is like a sexually transmitted disease between a whore and a john-- The original deal was consumated under shady and hurried circumstances, in the back of cars, intimate meetings behind closed office doors, greedy hands clutching at flesh and cash in orgasmic ecstacy. The event was powerful in its inception, but now it leaves festering sores and scars. It reduces the potency of the country. It makes others want to stay away from it in aversion. The constant itch of its immorality bothers many, and there is no cure.

The Iraq War was a man-made virus created to infect another part of the world, to spread, yet instead it has effected the maker and emboldened those who it was intended to harm. Delirium starts from the head and works its way down into the extremities. From the President down to the common man smiling at explosions, bpdy counts and dismembered lives on the daily news. And there is absolutely no cure.

So one may pray for two things-- one who is particularly fond of some organized religion may pray for a miracle. We have plenty of such Americans who sit around and hope and pray for a successful outcome. They dream of either miraculous apparitions, beatific raptures or even mushroom clouds in the name of the lord.

We may also decide to pray for purification, and whether that means by water fire, or blood. we may start to question, "Does America need to die in order to be born again?"

There are those that say that all consuming forest fire is ultimately good for the forest.

That's a question worth serious consideration.

Did you know that 47 countries' have
reestablished their embassies in Iraq ?

Did you know that the Iraqi government
currently employs 1..2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know
that 3100 schools have been renovated,
364 schools are under rehabilitation,
263 new schools are now under construction;
and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?

Did you know
that Iraq 's higher educational structure consists
of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
all currently operating?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in
January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know
that the Iraqi Navy is operational?
They have 5 - 100-foot patrol craft,
34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.

Did you know
that Iraq ' s Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
Which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft
(under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night,
and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

Did you know
that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?

Did you know
that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
fully trained and equipped police officers?

Did you know
that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq
that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?

Did you know
there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq ?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals,
83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities
and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know
that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5
have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know
that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?

Did you know
that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq
and phone use has gone up 158%?

Awwwww Crispee espoues the Pentagon's Talking Points and Propaganda. Why am I NOT surprised.

Larry Mohr

"Did you know
that 3100 schools have been renovated,
364 schools are under rehabilitation,
263 new schools are now under construction;
and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?"

Meanwhile, American schools fall apart.

Most Americans would probably agree with me: The almost half-a-trillion dollars flushed down the Iraqi toilet should have been spent here in America.

Hans

Awwwww Crispee espoues the Pentagon's Talking Points and Propaganda. Why am I NOT surprised.

Larry Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-03-24 03:27 PM |


You are not surprised because you and the left will never find anything good out of this. You would rather continue to cry about how and why we got there and ignore anything positive. Here's a fucking reality check for You and Hans. WE ARE STILL THERE.

HANS

Seeing how we've borrowed the money to fight this war, it's akin to taking out a second mortgage on your house and renovating your neighbor's house with the money. Makes about as much sense.

Meanwhile, American schools fall apart.
Hans

Our schools were falling apart before we invaded and will still be broken when we get out of Iraq.Maybe you should look within your own party for the failing schools. Instead of trying to blame everything on Iraq.

Meanwhile, American schools fall apart.

Most Americans would probably agree with me: The almost half-a-trillion dollars flushed down the Iraqi toilet should have been spent here in America.

Hans

Posted by Hans at 2008-03-24 03:29 PM | Reply |


Schools falling apart in the USA isn't due to lack of funding for the most part. I'll be more than willing to admit I'm wrong if it's the case, but many of the worst performing schools are also the ones with the most money being spent per student (anyone know where there are links for that type of thing? I know school districts vary, but I believe NYC is notorious for having a boatload of cash spent per kid with atrocious results).

That being said, it's always easy to point to any expenditure and say it should be spent elsewhere. The problem is that it's too easy for elected officials to spend our money abroad.
I don't understand why we support Israel and her enemies. Ron Paul seemed to have that one right.

Awwwww Crispee espoues the Pentagon's Talking Points and Propaganda. Why am I NOT surprised.

Of course, Larry. Just as the left side espouses their own talking points and propaganda. Would you rather a one sided debate? There are a lot of leftist blogs out there that will not allow dissenting views. Perhaps those would more suit your cyberspace needs.

Awwwww Crispee espoues the Pentagon's Talking Points and Propaganda. Why am I NOT surprised.

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-03-24 03:27 PM | Reply

Hey! It's Danni's alter ego! When confronted with the inconvenient truth (known as facts to thinking people) just call it 'talking points' not worthy of a response.

Because the truth is that you have none.

BTW,
I have about 5,000,000 in Iraqui Dinar I bought a few years ago through "Betoniraq.com" I think it cost me a few hundred bucks. Today it is worth about 4100 US Dollars. How much did any of you invest????

I have about 5,000,000 in Iraqui Dinar I bought a few years ago through "Betoniraq.com" I think it cost me a few hundred bucks. Today it is worth about 4100 US Dollars. How much did any of you invest????

Is that amount based on the rise in value of the Iraq dinar or the de-valuation of the US dollar?

I prefer investing in gold. No Americans or Iraqis have to die for me to make money.

How about the TRUTH Goatman,

Larry Mohr

Is that amount based on the rise in value of the Iraq dinar or the de-valuation of the US dollar?

I prefer investing in gold. No Americans or Iraqis have to die for me to make money.

Posted by k_g_beekeeper at 2008-03-24 03:56 PM |

The point is there are many ways to help this fucking nughtmare. Getting their financial institiutions in order should be one of the top three priorities.

Vernon You wouldn't know the truth even if it bit You on Your Hiney.


Larry Mohr

How about the TRUTH Goatman,

That is all I am interested in, Larry, is the truth. If you have any evidence that Crispee's list is wrong, I would like to see it.

How about the TRUTH Goatman,

Larry Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-03-24 03:58 PM

2005?2008? You would have been the first to cry foul if I posted this in 2005. It would be nice if you had anything to refute the statistics. Calling Bush a liar only goes so far.

Goatman didn't You see My snopes link?? Oh and go down to the clickable response link at the bottom of the page.

Larry Mohr

Crispee why don't You go to the fucking link I provided before You spew Your Bullshit Capisce??

Larry Mohr

Crispee why don't You go to the fucking link I provided before You spew Your Bullshit Capisce??

Larry Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-03-24 04:06 PM |


I did go to the link. So what? My source was from the dept of defense link. Snopes claims they can't prove it true. Or prove it false. Now what???

Goatman didn't You see My snopes link??

Yes I did. Snopes neither confirmed nor denied that list. It went so far as to say that would be difficult. (I tried to C&P that, but snopes seems to disallowed that)

Meanwhile, American schools fall apart.

Posted by Hans

Meanwhile we spend more per pupil than any other country and yet our education system is near the bottom of the industrilized countries. So what's your point?

"You are not surprised because you and the left will never find anything good out of this. You would rather continue to cry about how and why we got there and ignore anything positive. Here's a fucking reality check for You and Hans. WE ARE STILL THERE."

OK, then give us a list of benefits to the United States that has resulted from the sacrifice of lives and money in Iraq.
Oh, and if you include anything on your list like American security or other disproven bull shit then we will know that all you've got is the same tired talking points.

Easiest way to resolve Iraq.

Step one: go to UN.
Step two: tell UN, "We are going to leave Iraq. If you want to send some people there to keep the peace, we'll be glad to assist."
Step three: set date for pull-out of forces, except for the UN contingent force that'll we'll provide.
Step four: if no UN response, there is no contingent force to leave behind.
Step five: We are outta there.

The UN is the peace keeping force needed there.

Now, for my real pet peeve: The US promises to have forces in Iraq, but our forces (and expeditures) will not exceed the second highest contributor to Iraq.

stepping off box.

BAGHDAD, 28 August 2007 (IRIN) - The Iraqi Ministry of Education has warned of the possible low attendance of pupils at schools in the coming year, saying it expects at least a 15 percent drop compared to previous years. Parents have blamed the government for the poor protection of their children and many have opted to keep them at home.
Posted by truthhurts


Too many bullies at school. They should sue.

A little bookkeeping for Sniper's post. I went to Sniper's source when he originally posted these numbers, I imported them into Excel, I summed them, I looked at the numbers. For many of the years Sniper claimed were Clinton's they were, in fact, Bush 41.


1983: 2,465
1985: 2,252
1986: 1,984
1987: 1,983

Not to mention the total number in the Military under the different Presidents makes the percentage of deaths/in Service under Clinton half that of the current President.

"Meanwhile we spend more per pupil than any other country..."

Actually, from what I've found the USA is second to #1 Norway. Behind the USA are France, The Netherlands and Canada.

"...and yet our education system is near the bottom of the industrilized countries."

Your own education experience is hardly a nation-wide indicator.

"So what's your point?"

Did you know that 47 countries' have
reestablished their embassies in Iraq ?


actually it is 43 and most of those are in the coalition of the billing

there are around 195 countries in the world

so another way of looking at it is only 22% of the world's countries have embassies in Iraq

Did you know:

To make Iraq the basket case it is today is going to cost American taxpayers $3 TRILLION?

Why do the Cons, who won't spend a dime on our real needs here, think this is money well-spent?

Let the Iraqis spend their own money making a successful society.

I think we need a road map to get us out of debt and have a much smaller federal government.

Out of Iraq, and everywhere else for that matter.

Mission Accomplished.

It doesn't matter whether it's a success or a failure. It doesn't even matter whose fault it is.

All that matters is that our effort there is unsustainable, in terms of military readiness and actual $ cost. Disengaging from Iraq is a national security imperative.

All that matters is that our effort there is unsustainable, in terms of military readiness and actual $ cost. Disengaging from Iraq is a national security imperative.

Posted by argh at 2008-03-24 05:17 PM


That's pretty impressive. How long have you been getting daily Pentagon briefings? And where do you find the time to blog. You're amazing! No, you really are. I'm impressed.

I prefer investing in gold. No Americans or Iraqis have to die for me to make money.

Posted by k_g_beekeeper at 2008-03-24 03:56 PM


You're joking, right? You can't possibly delude yourself to think that what's going on in Iraq has nothing to do with flucuations in precious metals.

Get a grip.

CRISPEE OC

Saw your list.

Did you know they had many times every spin figure you listed before we invaded?

Electricity 24/7, no civil war, Christians worshiped openly (rather than their Archbishops being assassinated), on and on

And we had 4000 more living members of our armed forces and 30,000 more wounded - many of them permanently.

We weren't borrowing money from China to fight our battles either. Couple that with the %600,000,000,000 (billion) trade deficit - that means $600 BILLION more stays there than comes here EVERY year.

You a Commie lover or something? Where do you think they spend our money? I'll tell ya (among others):

-Building up their military
-Building infrastructure to increase manufacturing capacity so MORE of our jobs can go there

When the oil runs out the roads will be clear. That place will turn back into a barren dessert.

A little bookkeeping for Sniper's post. I went to Sniper's source when he originally posted these numbers, I imported them into Excel, I summed them, I looked at the numbers. For many of the years Sniper claimed were Clinton's they were, in fact, Bush 41.
* * * *

Bush 41 was president from Jan 98 to Jan 93. So what are you talking about?

Just give me a link that says he's wrong. I know who was president and when.

Using the actual figures from the Congressional Research Service report cited above, the total military deaths under each of the two administrations are as follows:

Bill Clinton (1993 - 2000) ............. 7,500 deaths

George W. Bush (2001 - 2006) .... 8,792 deaths

I believe I came to the same totals, RiR. Of course Bush has 2 years to add to the total. Also I did the ratios between total Active Duty to Deaths for a rate. Clinton's comes in at .05 and Bush 43 comes in at .11. FYI.

Bush 41 was president from Jan 98 to Jan 93.

...I know who was president and when.


Posted by rightisright


The self-retorting retorts are just pooping up all over today.

RiR?

Hello?

I wish Jack Reed would get off his ass and come out and endorse Obama.

Sheldon Whitehouse too (the other Rhode Island Senator)

The path out of Iraq was rejected by the American people. The path out of Iraq was the election of 2000.

"Did you know:

To make Iraq the basket case it is today is going to cost American taxpayers $3 TRILLION?

Why do the Cons, who won't spend a dime on our real needs here, think this is money well-spent?

Let the Iraqis spend their own money making a successful society.

Posted by johnjkavanagh"

I've argued that the US Congress controls the purse and it is the Congress to blame for the deficits and the National Debt exploding.

I'm told the it is the President's fault because the President presents his budget.

Ok, then why didn't Clinton spend $3Trillion dollars on the US before Bush could blow it away?

Petrous if you have needs why don't you open up your wallet and buy all your fellow AMericans an ice cream cone

Petrous if you have needs why don't you open up your wallet and buy all your fellow AMericans an ice cream cone

Petrous if you have needs why don't you open up your wallet and buy all your fellow AMericans an ice cream cone

Posted by timbci

Because we are a society, a people. I know that concept is foreign to you selfish "me, me ,me" types. Do you deny your family? If Uncle Joe showed up at your door tired and hungry would you kick him to the curb?

If Uncle Joe showed up at your door tired and hungry would you kick him to the curb?
Posted by TFDNihilist


What if he was a mean drunk, to boot?

The term General Welfare never meant for the public to support every need of every American.

I support the chance to stand up on your own.
I don't support standing you up on my effort.
When my effort is no longer there, you'll fall down again. That achieves nothing.

What if he was a mean drunk, to boot?

Posted by MrFair

Then I'd try to get him in AA.

TFD - touche.