California to control home thermostats


The privatization of utilities: the gift that keeps on giving.

I'd invest in the space heater company that does the most business in Northern California.

YOUR GOVERNMENT KNOWS BEST

This is not a new concept. When I lived in Georgia 15 years ago, the electric company had a voluntary program where they would put a radio controlled device that would shut of your AC. They would never shut it off for more than 30 minutes a day. They called it "rolling brownouts". The user got a 5% discount on their bill year 'round.

I did it and I never noticed any temperature change in the house and I got a small discount. Worked for me.

And don't flush your John so often!!!!

Mommy knows best

"When I lived in Georgia 15 years ago, the electric company had a voluntary program where they would put a radio controlled device that would shut of your AC. They would never shut it off for more than 30 minutes a day. They called it "rolling brownouts". The user got a 5% discount on their bill year 'round."

We have it in S Florida with FPL. I couldn't tell you if my AC has ever been turned off. I certainly never noticed it. And I agree with Goatman, works for me too.

But I guess if it helps save energy its probably some kind of Communist plot.

Another case of government gone wild.

Another case of government gone wild.

Isn't it amazing that people scream "global warming! Government do something!" But when the the government steps in to do something the war cry is suddenly "government gone wild!"

Which is it? "government do something" or "government stop intervening"? Make up your mind for christ sake!

id bet a dollar if it had been bush who proposed this the drudge forum would be hollering from the hills about govt intrusion into private lives...cause as so many on this forum say the govt under bush can do no good yet some are willing to let their home be under control of the very govt they despise......how sweet is that?

Goat
You have me confused with somebody else.

It's a hundred times too big, too expensive, too wasteful, too corrupt, too oppressive and too intrusive.

Oh yeah, and too incompetent.

I'll bet California is regulating prices too low, so of course consumption would not be price sensitive. Rationing was a Soviet technique for trying to compensate for prices regulated too low.

It's a hundred times too big, too expensive, too wasteful, too corrupt, too oppressive and too intrusive.

What is? The "control of thermostats" program? I can't speak for the California version, but the Georgia version of it was quite successful. It saved the consumers money and significantly reduced energy cousumption during peak usage periods preventing blackouts and brownouts.

I live in Sacramento and use SMUD for electricity. I already am part of a program with SMUD where they can shut off my AC for emergency situations like was stated above. I save money every month and they have never shut off my AC for over 5 years now. SMUD is a municipal organization (government run) and rates are 30-50% lower than PG&E (private company) which had frequent shortages and took forever to fix down lines from last week's storm....but 'the government' is the inefficient one....keep telling yourselves that....

this is so last year...

speaking as a wife of someone who used to work for an enron affiliate who was TOLD to "power down" when there was enough energy to run the entire nation...just sayin'...

he told me he thought it was "criminal".

It was criminal Nanc, but our anti-Trust Laws have no teeth.

Boone County has a good co-op. Very efficiently managed. Every customer is a share holder.

If Georgia can't accommodate peak usage, they're screwing up on the supply end and on the pricing. What you call successful was a band aid approach. There are no shortages when prices are allowed to float with market forces. Have you learned nothing from the experience of the Soviet Union?

Like I said, they're incompetent!

Goat,

In Georgia it was a voluntary choice you made for which you received compensation. In Cali they are talking about a mandatory program for which you will receive no compensation and have no control over.

Thats a big diff.

Funny thing is in their wisdom of government control over your life Cali has outlawed vent free gas products, the single most efficient zone heating avalible, converting 99% of gas burned to heat. They also require electronic ignition on all gas appliances to save gas with standing pilots, only thing is electronic ignition takes electricity. Yep thats the government I want controlling one more aspect of my life.

I understand, Tao, but it's like I pointed out upthread: People are wringing their hands about global warming and want the government to do something about it. So in California, that is happening. I guess one better be careful what they wish for.

SMUD is a municipal organization (government run) and rates are 30-50% lower than PG&E (private company) which had frequent shortages and took forever to fix down lines from last week's storm....but 'the government' is the inefficient one....keep telling yourselves that....

You have to look behind the curtain. PG&E is a REGULATED private company. California is probably not letting competitors come into the market or it is impossible to make a profit under California regulations.

The Soviet model didn't work for the Russians because it can't be made to work.

In the Enron case, California deregulated the wholesale market, but froze consumer prices. That's why the mess.

No one is touching my thermostat but me -- tonight or next year.
It's cold tonight and I just turned the heat on.

And when he starts to bake in the summer -- I'll control my own thermostat. I know the costs I incurr and I conserve where I can but I want the option to decide -- not some flake politicians in Sacramento telling me how to heat/cool my home.

he starts = it starts

People are wringing their hands about global warming and want the government to do something about it.

Hey Goat. I'm not people and I don't speak for others. Global warming is another hoax.

California has long been the State gladly moving the quickest towards becoming a police state. The government in that State wants to control everything.

If you are a long-haul trucker going through California, it is against the law to smoke in your truck. They banned all smoking in the workplace and I was warned that they consider a truckers truck to be their work place even if they are living in that truck 40 weeks during the year.

Now, you might not be a smoker, and you might even HATE smoking... fair enough. You don't have to like smoking though to hate the erosion of freedom that has become overwhelming in that State. The smoking issue is only one area too.

Sorry, Ray. You are right, my retort doesn't apply to you. But I'll stick by my guns that those who DO wring their hands about global warming have no room to criticize what California is doing.

Yeah! Let's have more big government telling us stupid people what to do!

Ron Paul is just a throwback crackpot who want to take us to the 1800's, what we need is more big government and less freedom, yeah, that's we need!

LOL

True, true especialy ironic given that it is california where this is happening.

Reading the responses most of the ones saying this is a bad idea haven't been the biggest supporters of the war on warming, but they probably also don't live in cali.

I live in Sacramento and use SMUD for electricity.

SMUD also took the perfectly viable Ranco Seco power plant off-line, for purely political reasons, removing 550 Megawatts from the state power supply. How smart was that?

Member you keep forgetting fredom is authority.

I mean to have true freedom you can't just have people doing what they want to do. That just would not work out.

Taowarrior, I flagged your comment as funny, even though it's actually sad that many people in this country actually think in that Orwellina fashion.

We have always been at war with the climate.

So let's do things like they do in the Kazikstan--the heat stays on--when they want --from November thru April and then it turns off--throughout the entire building--or in this case the entire state.

Arnold is a baffoon--or is it the legislature?? Can't tell them apart.

Next they will be parsing out toilet paper at the public restrooms. No more for you!

Murphy

"You have to look behind the curtain. PG&E is a REGULATED private company. California is probably not letting competitors come into the market or it is impossible to make a profit under California regulations."

SMUD does not seem to have any issues running as a non-profit while PG&E constantly cries to regulators to get higher rates and stop SMUD from expanding into PG&E markets - all while charging 30-50% less for electricity. The free market is great - but it does not work critical services like energy, medical care, highways, etc. The proof is in the pudding.

I don't have a square to spare, unless of course you do a little tap dancing for me. What is your stance on global warming?

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-01-11 11:17 PM

Hmmmm......

Regards,
etc.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-01-11 11:17 PM

Hmmmm......

Regards,
etc.

I know, I know. I forgot to check before I posted.

I mean to have true freedom you can't just have people doing what they want to do. That just would not work out.

Posted by TaoWarrior at 2008-01-11 11:34 PM


That is what the electric bill is for--

You can keep the temp where you want and then pay for it..


Murphy

Member glad the scarcasm came through in my post, I know that doen't always. Although I guess Rudy G should get the FF since that is almost a direct quote from him.

Sad isn't it.

Ahh but Murphy if someone can't afford to stay as cold or warm as they want then they are not free, they are opresed by the elites who use more power and drive the cost up. Clearly the only answer is to require everyone to have the temp set to the same level that way all can be equaly free in their comfort.

I live here in SoCal. I can count on one hand the number of times I have turned the heater on in the past year. (That is why God created blankets and sweaters.) I can count on two hands the numbers of times I have turned the AC on in the past year. (That is why God created cold beer and ice coffee.)

I'll jumper out the thermostat and run it a full blast all summer like I always do. Thats what all bills paid is all about.

I know a lady who is a socially responsible civic minded good citizen, who when there was an impending water shortage, voluntarily reduced her usage, while others were profligate.

So, the powers that be established a lower base for her based on historical usage, and she pays more for water over that base rate. Her profligate neighbors have a much higher base rate, and pay less for water.

Beware. Be wary.

If you cooperate, you'll likely suffer adverse consequences.

Oh happy day! Danni's dream is coming true! A government that takes care of you from cradle to grave.

Doesn't bother me much. I rarely run the AC in the house, even during the hottest days of summer...because I'm not here. Working from 6am to 6 or 7pm has its advantages.

I have a window unit on a thermostat in my office and my bedroom. The one in the office is to keep my computer equipment from overheating and is always turned on. The one in the bedroom only gets turned on when I'm home.

This is outrageous! I can understand offering this on a voluntary basis, but that's NOT what they plan to do:

"The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers' preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities' suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers' wishes."

The day that ANYONE would control any part of my life in my own home is the day I'd pack and move!!

That is what the electric bill is for--

You can keep the temp where you want and then pay for it..


Murphy

Posted by MURPHY

sorry guys..energy is not subject to the free wheeling laws of capitalism like many think. Without energy governments don't exist effectively so energy will always be regulated and a national security issue..Just because you are tepid and want to cool down and have the cash to pay for energy doesn't give you the right..

The problem with so many in this country is that people think if they have the money they are entitled to do what they wish as much as they want.. well sorry guys and gals THAT world is disappearing . Welcome to the 21st century where we will be approaching 9 billion people all wanting the same thing you want.

too fucking many people = less quality, less available and more money for the product.

Ron Paul is just a throwback crackpot who want to take us to the 1800's, what we need is more big government and less freedom, yeah, that's we need!

Posted by member2586

yeah the 1800's were so fucking wonderful..

civil war, 3 depressions, rampant disease and poverty..

the mean lifespan in the 1800's was 25..

Here it comes. Ha, Bush and Co listening in on phone terrorist's phone calls is nothing compared to this invasion of our freedoms.

SMUD does not seem to have any issues running as a non-profit while PG&E constantly cries to regulators to get higher rates and stop SMUD from expanding into PG&E markets - all while charging 30-50% less for electricity.

You don't get something for nothing. Somewhere in that labyrinth, SMUD is being subsidized by taxpayers.

The free market is great - but it does not work critical services like energy, medical care, highways, etc. The proof is in the pudding.

In case anybody noticed, California is one step away from bankruptcy. The proof will come.

Times have changed while no one was paying attention. All of us will never act responsibly about saving or not wasting energy. Only individuals can act.

I keep my home at sixty degrees in the winter unless there's company coming. I use a dehumidifier in the summer. I replaced every lightbulb for which I buy electricy with compact florescent bulbs.

My landlord put on a new roof, replaced all the windows with inert gas-filled windows, and reinsulated the entire building. He bumped everyone's rent up fifty dollars. The tenants still have individual control over their heat and cooling. My utility cost went from an average of 150 dollars per month in 2003 to 90 dollars per month on the utility company's 2008 budget plan in central WISCONSIN!

Of course anyone can keep their personal environment at whatever temperature they want. This is America. Be prepared to pay out the ass for your profligacy, however! I have better things on which to spend MY money.

The reason California is becoming a police state is that Dems control both houses. Dems = big governemnt, they know what is best for us..... It is really becoming a pain in the ass to live here. But the weather is great, mid 60's today.

Dems = big governemnt, they know what is best for us.....

Oh please! The Republicans differ only on what is best for "us." One party is socialist; the other is fascist.

I mean to have true freedom you can't just have people doing what they want to do.

That's exactly what true freedom is. Doing what you want to do, BUT being willing to accept/pay for the consequences of your actions.

The problem with so many in this country is that people think if they have the money they are entitled to do what they wish as much as they want.

No they can only do what they wish as much as they can afford. If you understood free market capitalism, them you would understand why that produces the most effiecient use of available resources and why rationing (government regulation) only produces shortages.

"In case anybody noticed, California is one step away from bankruptcy. "

But, but, but...Ahnold can borrow his way out of that, just like last time...right?

Red,

Sorry guess I didn't get the scarcasm through quite as well as I thought.

You might want to read the writings of Herr Guiliani for more beautiful freedom is authority quotes.

I'm afraid I can't quite agree with Guliani or the Cali government on the ammount of control we should give to the government but it is clear some do. From what I have seen sadly it appears a majority do.

Keep your hands off of my thermostat!!! I'll decide what temperature setting is best for me and my family, not some politician.

If there is an energy shortage, then why not consider expanding the energy grid by building another power plant? Oh, that's right, we're talking about California. Nevermind.

They are introducing "smart" meters in Ontario. You can blow all the electricity through them you want, but they are going to bill at a rate based on the present load on the system, not the flat rate we were accustomed to.

In other words, if you let the house warm up a little more during peak periods (or cool down - but most of us are on natural gas for heating), do your laundry later on in the evening, that sort of thing, you will find it won't hit you. If you choose to pump up the AC all day long, or run the laundry right at rush hour when everyone is coming home, they will bill you at a higher kw/h charge.

Freedom to consume whenever you want, but of course as we all know, comes at a price it seems.

Regards,
etc.

The government refuses to force utilities to upgrade, the lobbiests fight every attempt to force the issue of efficient production and distribution.
One half of my bill here in Ohio, exists to recoup exessive generation costs going back 30 years, often for generating capacities never realized. The fact that I also paid to build the inefficient power plants, not only thru the charges I pay every month, but the tax money that funded the plants construction, the utilities claimed they could not afford.
Last I checked the cost to taxpayers here in Ohio was in the neighborhood of 10 billion dollars. To add insult to injury, the regulating authority is made up of industry insiders and business elites. And there is no guarantee of service. But you still have to pay.
Corporate extortion backed up by government regulation that ensures the people have no say.

Isn't it amazing that people scream "global warming! Government do something!" But when the the government steps in to do something the war cry is suddenly "government gone wild!"

Posted by goatman

The earth's temp hasn't risen in the last 6 years!!

Who is the person that is to say what the correct temprature of the earth should be??

The only thing the government is good at is taking our money and giving it to someone whod dosen't desrive it. They just use it to buy votes to keep themselves in office.

They can keep the hell out of my house and home forever. I may want my house at 72 and the guy down the street may like 68.

Six years?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Try a thousand:
www.worldclimatereport.com

Posted by Zatoichi

Boo..Hoooo... I guess you know what the correct temprature is.

The thermometer we use was invented in 1714.

I guess chief Crazy Horse kept the temprature records in the western US prior to 1900. Even then, there wasn't anything like weather stations in most of the US or rest of the world for that matter.

To tell me that the average temprature of the earth has risen 1/2 a dregee in the last several hundred years is a scam. There wern't many temprature recording devices around the world until just the last few years.

Near as we can tell other planets in our solar system are warming. I guess it's them damn SUVs and green house gasses.

In case anybody noticed, California is one step away from bankruptcy. The proof will come.

Posted by Ray at 2008-01-12 09:10 AM |


The United States has been broke for decades. It's no problem though we've still got some presses and some Ink. Our owners will decide when it's time to stop the presses. Right now they aren't finished tooling up.

To save on electricity I'm thinking of bathing on a monthly basis. Think Mrs Oohrah would notice? Or care?

Okie doakie...I live right on the ocean in SoCal and I've never felt it necessary to turn my heat on in the winter. I live in an all-electric apartment and the heater is in the ceiling and uber-expensive to run, even if it's just an occasional night or two. On those rare occasions that the temperature gets down to the low 40s at night, an extra sweatshirt, in conjunction with a ski cap and a pair of sock slippers, is all I've ever needed. In the summer, my proximity to the ocean takes care of the air conditioning.

I'm a frugal old geezer.

the mean lifespan in the 1800's was 25..
That is a misleading statement. It is true, but what this stitistic doesn't take into consideration is the the fact that more children died back then. So if you take the statistic from about age 10, and don't count infant deaths the age average goes way up. On average people were healthier and stronger than we are now, and they lived to ripe old ages.
If you walk through an old grave yard you will see many deaths under 10, but you will see many in their 90s and 100s.

The United States has been broke for decades. It's no problem though we've still got some presses and some Ink. Our owners will decide when it's time to stop the presses. Right now they aren't finished tooling up.

The big problem with that is that the Chinese finance backing of that dollar now thru loans and own us now. If they decide to stop backing the dollar you can use the dollar for toilet peper.

I swtitched my computer back to window and now I don't have auto spell check.

Newsworthy Kris.

Regards,
etc.

If you walk through an old grave yard you will see many deaths under 10, but you will see many in their 90s and 100s.

Posted by JeffnDenmark at 2008-01-12 02:03 PM |


Very true Jeff.

No one is touching my thermostat but me -- tonight or next year.
It's cold tonight and I just turned the heat on.
And when he starts to bake in the summer -- I'll control my own thermostat. I know the costs I incurr and I conserve where I can but I want the option to decide -- not some flake politicians in Sacramento telling me how to heat/cool my home.
Posted by CalifChris


Chris - I agree with you. I lived in CA for years and was always suspicious of the Hacks in Sac. You'll notice nobody quoting The Governator in this article. I wonder what he thinks?

The Governator has pulled off one of the greatest switcheroos in the history of American politics.

If he were a Churchill (Winston) he would have "crossed the floor" to sit with the other guys. In California, he's managed to pretend he is a Republican, yet act like both a Repub and a Dem. He not only borrows and spends, he taxes and spends.

Californians stupify me in their willingness to be hoodwinked by this guy. Populist yes. Good for the long term health of that state, doubtful.

Regards,
etc.

TPS - bingo. Thats CA for you. How else do you explain the wild swings between Pat Brown - Ronald Reagan - Jerry Brown - George Deukmajian - Pete Wilson - Arnold...etc etc

D'OH! Mental block of Gray Davis...

There is no privatization of utilities!
Everything utilities do is regulated. They are even used to collect taxes from you. The taxes are added to your bill and you think the money is going to gas, electric, or telephone. It is just a collection agency for the state and federal government. Next time you receive a utility bill, read it.

id bet a dollar if it had been bush who proposed this the drudge forum would be hollering from the hills about govt intrusion into private lives...
Posted by cheka at 2008-01-11 10:45 PM

But of course, you can only formulate that hypothetically because W would never do something as sensible as this.

And if he did, I'd congratulate him, after I got up off the floor.

Here it comes. Ha, Bush and Co listening in on phone terrorist's phone calls is nothing compared to this invasion of our freedoms.
Posted by sawdust


Snarkdust - Are you implying Bush and Co should leave terrorists alone?

Are you implying Bush and Co should leave terrorists alone?

Well if our military left Iraq and Afghanistan, the "terrorists" would have no one to terrorize but themselves.

"Are you implying Bush and Co should leave terrorists alone?"

Well if our military left Iraq and Afghanistan, the "terrorists" would have no one to terrorize but themselves.

Posted by Ray


Ray - thanks for being Sawdust's spokesman. My question was in response to his comment about Bush & Co. listening in on terrorists' phone lines. I guess I assumed he meant right here in the US.

MrFair
Sawdust doesn't make sense. Bush & Co. would have to assume every American is a potential terrorist. The process of listening without warrants in itself is an invasion or our freedoms.

The way I see it a foreign power has already taken over this country: Washington DC.

"Just because you are tepid and want to cool down and have the cash to pay for energy doesn't give you the right.."


Actually, it does. If I am cold and want to warm-up and I can pay my bill it means I have the right to do so. Same if I get cold. I understand your point and please don't think me cruel but if it is available for me to use and I can afford to use it, then it is my right to use it. And yes, I also think this applies to drugs though I don't use.

"Just because you are tepid and want to cool down and have the cash to pay for energy doesn't give you the right.."- Ray

WHAT!?! Please show me anywhere in our Constitution where it states that you can't cool off or warm up if you feel the need to do so. Where does it state in The Bill of Rights that US citizens are not allowed to stay at their perspective body temperature comfort level?

Everday our government creeps furhter into our lives and business in one way or another, and you sound like the kind of person who feels as if our government knows best for all of us.

Well, if that's the case, then I'm sure that you have no problem with us being in Iraq. I realize this is a state issue but, unfortunately, the feds have swallowed up and screwed up uncountless issues that our states are much better equipped to handle.

Having money gives you the right to waste energy? I swear, the best quote I've read lately was:

A Libertarian is a Republican with a bong.

Ayn Randian nonsense only foments revolution. I know at least a few of you have read her stuff and actually seem to believe the world works her way.

Believe it or not, I am more of a Libertaran than a Republican, and that's a pretty good description. Although, I do believe that drugs should be legalized whether I do them or not.

But that really has nothing to do with having money and wasting energy because you have it. For goodness sake, there are plenty of dems jetting aroung in private jets and a million other energy wasteful things, yet somehow it's okay for them, because they "care" so much about the environment. Buch of doodoo if you ask me.

'If the neocons have their way, Awnold will be our president.': WRONG. The man is way too much to the left for the conservatives - he's as bad as McCain, and Opympia Snow, etc..

they are so progressive out there.......

I don't see anything wrong with this if it's strictly voluntary to receive a discount of some sort. It wouldn't work in Houston, where the temperature and weather changes quickly and often. I'm sure there are other cities that have the same problem. Does anyone know if this only applies to homes in CA., or do businesses and other commercial spaces are included (no, I didn't read the whole article)?

Ayn Randian nonsense only foments revolution. I know at least a few of you have read her stuff and actually seem to believe the world works her way.

Well seeing how the heavy hand of the State drove manufacturing out of this country, doesn't that come pretty close to Atlas Shrugging? Now comes the ugly aftermath.

Rolling Blackouts? Are they still a problem?

I haven't heard of the widepsread 'rolling blackouts' since Bush's buddy Ken Lay (Dead...heh heh) and his boys at Enron used them to manipulate the energy prices, all while causing deaths. But they, what are a few deaths when there's a new Lear Jet to be bought.

"Well seeing how the heavy hand of the State drove manufacturing out of this country, doesn't that come pretty close to Atlas Shrugging? Now comes the ugly aftermath."

The state didn't drive manufacturing out of this country. They pursued lower labor costs, as any profit-maximizing organization would do. It's Econ 101. Atlas Shrugged is pure hokum.