Geeeze, not another debate. Give it a rest. But I'll suppose I'll tune in anyway. *sigh*

I caught both the Obama rally and the Clinton one on C-SPAN till NFL playoffs took over. He was electric, she was lackluster and mechanical and had some act going with the seating that reminded me of Rudy and his phone calls from wifey. She's in trouble.

The fair tax would reduce the tax bite to some percentage of 1% for the rich... depending on how rich and their individual life styles. Republican values are a laugh a minute !

I think I'll turn on the TV on and watch Star Wars instead. At least I'll be entertained.

YomeLib -

If I understand your dialect of English - That the rich would only pay 1%, you are dreaming. People with money spend money. People with more money spend more money. The more that is spent, the more taxes are paid. The "rich" (which is soon to be defined as a household making more than $100,000 if Edwards has his way) will always spend more and are therefore taxed more.

Now there are those devious individuals that SAVE money...yes that is not taxed. That would put you right up there with people like Bill Cliton that maintains accounts in the income tax free Cayman Islands so the Cliton estate won't be plundered should the dems get the chance to "soak the rich". Are those the values you prefer?

A citizen - a big ole fair tax ditto from me on that one. www.fairtax.org

Do the Dems debate at 8pm central?

Having the GOP and DEM candidates shake hands was a nice touch.

Jags 14 Steelers 7.

Great idea to put a debate on a Saturday night.

This country is in trouble.

What's up with these "nuclear attack" hypothetical questions?

21-7 Jags.

"Hillary...the force for status quo"

Hillary....if I'm not winning I'll divide us....

Can anyone seriously question the obvious superiority of the dems over the repubs when it comes to the level of their responses. the repubs talk in bumper stickers, little jokes, and one-liners, and the dems actually talk at length about policy.

Of course, that probably bores (or confuses) most Bush supporters.

But Huckabee believes in Jesus. What more matters?

Can anyone seriously question the obvious superiority of the dems over the repubs when it comes to the level of their responses. the repubs talk in bumper stickers, little jokes, and one-liners, and the dems actually talk at length about policy.

MIDIMAN

The difference is quite striking.

These democrats are the weakest bunch I've seen in a LONG time - probably Carteresque. Not that I've seen any that are stand-outs on either side - but from the Iowa results it looks as though the Democrats are a much more 'torn' party than the republicans which will spell 3rd party and another disaster for the blues.

These democrats are the weakest bunch I've seen in a LONG time - probably Carteresque. Not that I've seen any that are stand-outs on either side - but from the Iowa results it looks as though the Democrats are a much more 'torn' party than the republicans which will spell 3rd party and another disaster for the blues.

Guess it was worth saying twice. sorry for the repost.

FYI: If you repeat the same stupid post twice, it doesn't make it any more intelligent.

Y'all notice Rudy's attempt to rewrite history and pretend that Eisenhower started the program to get a man on the moon???? Unimportant except that it illustrated perfectly just how dishonest he and most of the Republicans really are.
I think if I hear any mor.e about this stupid "fair tax" idea I will vomit, as we head into a serious recession some would pretend that we shouldn't try to encourage those with high incomes to invest in American technologies, etc. which an income tax can do but which a sales tax will not. Oh, it will allow the wealthy to keep a far higher percentage of their incomes but for us working class folks it will just be a tax increase.
Don't let any Hucksterbee try to convince you that you can take less from the wealthy and still finance the government without taking more from some place else...namely from the middle class.
Hillary looked smart, was very convincing in her arguments that talk is easy but accomplishing change is harder. Barack though brought up another point which might be more important, achieving a strong Democratic majority without which no change will occur. I think what he was hinting at was that his role as president (even presidential nominee) would be more helping to elect a Congressional majority than previous presidents. That was his criticism of Clinton, great ideas, great courage but no majority thus not many good results.
Edwards was passionate but he's an also ran...unfortunately.
After the Obama question to the Republicans and then the Dem debate...Barack won both the Republican and Democratic debates.

"These democrats are the weakest bunch I've seen in a LONG time"

Uhh, yeah. That's probably why they outdrew the Republicans 2:1 in the Iowa caucuses.

"but from the Iowa results it looks as though the Democrats are a much more 'torn' party than the republicans"

Please do give us details on how you arrived at that stunningly inaccurate conclusion.

Anybody surprised at how strongly Edwards attacked Hillary as the agent of status quo? I was kind of waiting to see if he seemed to favor one side or the other, but didn't think he'd be that forceful.

On another note, I thought it was striking how much more passion the Dems showed responding to the issues than the Repubs. Seemed more like the Repubs were sticking to a pre-rehearsed script.

"These democrats are the weakest bunch I've seen in a LONG time"

Compared to what, 100 years in Iraq?

"Please do give us details on how you arrived at that stunningly inaccurate conclusion."

He mistakenly tuned into Mexican wrestling.

"pre-rehearsed"

That's existential, man.

My question for Romney would be: Being that that you are cynically using name recognition to try to win Michigan, which team where you rooting for tonight, the Pistons or the Celtcs?

Since Mitt is a Liberal Massachusets filp floper, he will say both.

Romney is not a Michigan guy, he was the gov of Mass he is a Mass guy, we want nothing to do with that phony around here.

And I hope that in March 5, the Piston beat the crap out of the Celtincs in Boston.

And the Redwings are hella better than the Bruins too.

Wow I think member and I found something we can agree on. We must be chaneling Obama's consensus

Obama and Huckabee represent the extremes. There is an extreme likelihood both will soon relegated to the trivial pursuit category of interesting political curiosities of the past.

Hillary is unelectable.

Breck girl is unelectable.

Democrats better start looking for a plan D', McCain won't be easy to beat in a general election.

Sorry Zuloser, yer comic relief falls short.

Oh yeah, I see America getting behind a crazy old coot who never saw a war he didn't like. Yeah, that's it. Zoolu, you crazy!

"McCain won't be easy to beat in a general election."

First off, McCain is still a very long shot to even be nominated. Second, do you really think a nation that is screaming for change in the country is going to elect a 72 year old scion of the establishment? I don't.

Could you, perhaps, go into greater detail as to why you think Obama is "extreme". Oh, and also why you think calling Edwards "Breck girl" is humorous?

"McCain won't be easy to beat in a general election."

Yeah, most Americans will agree with him about staying in Iraq for 100 years......hahahahaha!

Some folks just can't face the fact that the Republican Party is yesterdays' news. It's done. Dumbya killed it.
Get over it.

A ham sandwich could beat Hillary in any election; all Obama is the ham sandwich of the moment.

All Obama has is he isn't Hillary, nothing else. He is against big oil and big this and big that and he's all about change and very short on details.

Breck girl is a joke, a hawker of class warfare in an Armani suite and a $400 haircut talking about how he's for the little guy.

Really, the United States is going to elect a black guy named Barak Obama as president?

Better start coming up with the plan 'D' boys, November will be here sooner that you think.

Really, the United States is going to elect a black guy named Barak Obama as president?


What a bigot.

Danni - you sound desperate already, your party is divided and has no solution or message.

Democrat Message: Raise Taxes, Cut and Run in Iraq, cater to our Enemies - Pelosi's itching to visit Iran. Create a new tax on breating - maybe hillary will give carbon credits to every newborn along with the 5000.

Losers. Not one of them has an original thought.

"What a bigot."

And one who can't even spell.

"A ham sandwich could beat Hillary in any election"

Unfortunately for Zooloser, the Republicans can't field a candidate who can even rise to that level.

But I, for one, certainly appreciate his thoughtful and in-depth analysis.

"Breck girl is a joke, a hawker of class warfare in an Armani suite and a $400 haircut talking about how he's for the little guy."

Yeah, as opposed to a real rootin tootin cowboy from Texas who worked for everything he's got....
Zulu judges a man's character by the price of his haircut....brilliant.
So, let's see here, Edwards is a millionaire so it would show his solidarity with the working class if he had cheap haircuts....I bet his hair stylist thinks he's a pretty generous guy....personally I like rick people to be generous not stingy assholes.

You forgot his middle name:

Barack Hussein Obama

Yeah, that's going to win hearts and minds isn't it? I'm curious is he going to wear an American Flag lapel pin if he wins the nomination or will he just fly the flag of Surrender?

"and a $400 haircut "

Mitt got a $400 makeup job.

BFD.

"you sound desperate already, your party is divided and has no solution or message."

Whatever helps you sleep at night between now and the butt-kicking you candidate will be receiving in November.

The Democrats are not divided any more than the Republicans, as anyone with an ounce of political savvy could see. In both parties there are some relatively minor philosophical differences between candidates that will disappear after the nominations.

I suspect from your posts that you are probably not old enough to remember the Reagan-Bush battle for the nomination in 1980. Probably one of the most vitriolic and divisive campaigns in decades. Yet they ended up on the same ticket.

OH MY GOD OUR PARTY IS DIVIDED OH MY GOD!!! NOOOOOO!!! IT CAN'T BE!!! WE MUST ALL MARCH IN LOCKSTEP FOR THE FRIGHTY-RIGHTYS TO VOTE FOR HILLARY!! YES, MASTER, WE WILL TAKE THE WORD OF A NUMB-NUTTED RIGHT WING CRACK SMOKING APOLOGIST FOR BUSH TO TELL US WHAT WE MUST DO TO RECLAIM THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

This has been brought to you by the Rooty Ghouliani campaign for President. 9/11.

Here is the funny part, since LBJ and the New Deal Washington has been all about getting bigger and liberal scams that promise the moon while taking more of the voters take home pay.

That is Washington D.C., the Democratic establishment is about and always will be about class warfare and promising voters they will be taken care of if only they send more money to Washington.

So Obama (or any member the Democratic freak show you pick) talks about change that will only make Washington bigger with socialized medicine and government oversight of the oil and so forth.

Children, Obama's new deal is the policies of the past. If you missed the 60's and 70's and 80's and 90's go check out a history book and do some much needed catching up.

Obama is the same tired old jargon and represents the same amount of change as Joe Biden and Todd.

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

"Barack Hussein Obama

Yeah, that's going to win hearts and minds isn't it?"

Didn't seem to bother the folks in a fairly conservative, middle class, and 93% white state like Iowa.

Fortunately, most of America has evolved beyond such petty and juvenile tendencies - leaving you behind in the dust.

"Danni - you sound desperate already, your party is divided and has no solution or message."

Hmmmm...even the Republicans were talking about Obama's message at their own debate. I think you're just slow if you didn't catch it Zulu but it was pretty apparent to everyone else watching.
What solution did the loser Republicans offer to anything????
Health care....Americans should all buy individual policies....oh brilliant that's going to work....NOT!
Iraq.......Stay the course.....! trillion dollars and counting....how much more stay the course can we afford????
Immigration....oh they argued about who's plan was better....even as Bush lets Mexican trucks into America and doesn't enforce our immigration laws or protect our border....and I just didn't hear them criticizing him...no didn't hear them saying he was a terrible president.....
Me thinks you are beyond desperate and right into dilusional.

"You forgot his middle name"

Plus...has anyone noticed he has big ears?

I mean...as long as we're doggin' him about things over which he had no control....

"That is Washington D.C., the Democratic establishment is about and always will be about class warfare and promising voters they will be taken care of if only they send more money to Washington."

I know you must be so worried that they will undo all the fiscal responsibility demonstrated by the current Republican (mis)administration.

Rube.

Psssst.....I hear Obama is.....black!

"That is Washington D.C., the Democratic establishment is about and always will be about class warfare"

True, they are fighting a defensive war against the aggressors in the Republican Party.
Face the truth, Ronald Reagan declared Class War long ago.

ZULU u always were a fearful asshole - enjoy

We are all from a very small population in Africa.

Deal with it.

"hopefully Huckabee will get a lot of time to talk about the "Fair Tax" that he is backing. Eliminate the IRS and let everyone pay "their fair share" sounds real good to me!"

It sounds good to everyone who doesn't understand it.

'What a bigot.'

Am I a bigot or a realist?

Isn't racism for real? If I'm wrong than we can happily do away with anything that waddles and quacks like affirmative action wouldn't you agree?

Bottom line is Borat Obama is no JC Watts, electability rating slim to not a chance in hell.

But nothing would make me happier that seeing Borat Hussein Obama or Hillary Roadhouse Clinton make it all the way to take the Democrat Party Presidential nomination.

Better start coming up with that plan 'D' children.

Borat swing (miss)
Hillary swing (miss)
Breck swing (miss)

Looks like the Dems are out without a single hit.

But who else do the Dems have? How about Looney Tunes Kucinich?

Sad.

Talk about a divided party??
Tonight Mike Hucksterbee demonstrated the GREAT DIVIDE in the Republican party....far greater than any divide in the Democratic Party. His populist comments were diametrically opposed to the Mitt Romney end of the party....and he just won the Iowa caucuses.....Hucksterbee is virtually a Democrat on some issues and he is the leader.....
The Republican pary isn't just divided it is self-destructing right before our very eyes.
Ron Paul is leading the young would be new Republicans like a pied piper away from the traditional Republican Party too.
The Democrats, on the other hand, really pretty much agree on what needs to be done and just have fairly minor disagreement on how to go about it.
Hardly what you could call divided.

Good debate by good Dem candidates all.

Redundantly though, standing or sitting, she still looked and sounded more Presidential than the other candidates in yet another debate.

Plus, some funny charm about likability, a good expose of Obama's fake health care program, a great comparison to Bush's "likeability" and "intuition" and "inexperience", lol!, and an unanswered shot with the fact that Obama's NH Campaign Chairman is a registered lobbyist.

I don't know if it was enough, but they have to be happy with her effort.


Obama made no major gaffes, but still got that "deer in the headlights" look whenever in trouble.

Edwards sounded shrill (in a debate with a woman!) accusing her of attacking Obama when she pointed out policy differences, something NH 'ers don't mind at all.

Bill Richardson still could be a VP, or he has the choice of being the next Sen from NM.

"Bottom line is Borat Obama is no JC Watts,"

And thank God for that.


"electability rating slim to not a chance in hell."

Yes. That would be why all the polls show him winning against any of the potential Republican candidates.

But stretch just a liiiiiiiiitle further. That straw is almost within reach.

The problem for the Dems is that Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter, Giuliani or Romney on their worst day could kick Barot Obamas ass in a debate on Obamas best day ever.

Obama has nothing, Obama is a big fat sack of hot air.

If Obama had a record it might be different, but the boy has nothing. All Borat has is he isn't Hillary.

Better come up with a rough draft of Plan 'D' soon cause Borat is weak kids.

Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter, Giuliani or Romney....none of whom could even beat Mike Hucksterbee......Are any even in double digits in poll numbers????
One thing we know for sure...none of the above will ever be president.

Huckleberry is the Democrats dream candidate just as Billary and Osama are to the Republicans. McCain will gain in NH and will have a good shot. The Democrats don't want that. Yes, he's old and a bit senile but he's much more stable and likeable than most, if not, all of the other candidates.

Yeah John McCain's campaign song will be "bomb bomb bomb...let's bomb Iran"

That's going to play real well these days....hahahahahaha!

You can call Obama and Hillary clinton names but it just shows that you don't have anything of substance to say about them....one of which will be your next president.

'One thing we know for sure...none of the above will ever be president.'

Let's see, at this point four years ago John Kerry was the Democratic steamroller no Republican could contend with wasn't he?

And so 'we' will have to see what happens in coming months.

If you really believe Borat Hussein Obama will be president than you just keep believing danni, you just keep believing.

Faith is a wonderful thing.

Fortunately for Obama or Clinton America has had four more years of Bush. I think he has effectively ruined any chance for a Republican victory and the economy will be the icing on that cake...and it will be getting worse through '08.

'You can call Obama and Hillary clinton names but it just shows that you don't have anything of substance to say about them'

That's because they are without substance.

Neither one has ever pushed through a single piece of noteworthy legislation, other than squawking from the sidelines they have no record.

"Yes, he's old and a bit senile but he's much more stable and likeable than most"

Wow. Just wow.

"Let's see, at this point four years ago John Kerry was the Democratic steamroller no Republican could contend with wasn't he?"

No, he was never that.

Now, time to put Zooloser on *ignore*

-Wow. Just wow

That is what they are down to, the candidate of semi-lucidity.

I may re-think voting for Dennis the K and Elizabeth the Red Giant, as even 'Lil D might get elected against his bunch of losers.

And Zuloser knows losers.

Wow, just wow.

Yes, it's scary isn't it. An actual war hero that is running for President (not scared to wear a US flag on his lapel) leading in almost every matchup hands down.

I looked at your poll numbers and it looks as though McCain was your only hope and even then a very slight hope....now consider how the polls underestimated the Obama victory and the Dem turnout in Iowa....considering most young people don't have land line phones....and your polls are meaningless at best.....and it is doubtful that McCain will end up with your party's nomination....and probably about your weakest candidate will......

It will be an interesting year though. Now off to bed for me.

Thanks Danni, I never thought I would see the day a democrat rejected a poll. I didn't think you guys wiped your ass without consulting zogby.

Let's see, at this point four years ago John Kerry was the Democratic steamroller no Republican could contend with wasn't he?

And so 'we' will have to see what happens in coming months.


FYI four years ago Turd Blossom was crowing about a permanent majority for the Repugs and we all know what happened in November of 2006 when ya'll got a 6 million vote drubbing.

Try that with electoral votes and see what you get, Zuly.

"Yes, it's scary isn't it."

No, what's scary is someone who thinks electing a candidate they admit is old and a little senile is a good thing.

And I guess your idea of "leading hands down" means being within the margin of error in every matchup, and dead even with Obama.

But we do have some lovely parting gifts for you.

'It will be an interesting year though. Now off to bed for me.'

Have a good night.

Peyton Manning is funny on SNL - gotta go. See you guys in the soup kitchen.

-See you guys in the soup kitchen.

We'll be sure you get an extra serving.

Time for rest.

Remember. Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Nighty night all.

"Winners go home and fuck the prom queen."

I'm guessing you must have read that somewhere.

'Nite.

-Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Some deep voice musta just called out, "Honey, are you home?, at Zuloser's house.

Corky - I thought the debate was pretty good, although I think its time for Richardson to go.

I was a little surprised that Edwards went after Hillary so hard. Overall I thought she did well, but sometimes came off a little too angry and cynical.

I don't agree with your "deer in the headlights" assessment of Obama. I thought he seemed generally calm, collected and thoughtful.

My biggest impression is how much more passion the Dems showed for the issues compared to the Repubs.

McCain / Lieberman 08? Could it be?

"McCain / Lieberman 08? Could it be?"

Gee, that'd be swell. 2 old white DC establishment insiders who would be a combined 154 years old at the end of a second term. JUST what America, let alone the Republican Party needs.

I had to read that twice Corky. Then just about spit my beer out.

FF.

Regards,
etc.

Mark Halperin's (Time) grades:

Obama A-

Edwards: B+

Clinton: B

Richardson: B-

Halperin on Obama...

Calm, relaxed and comfortably swathed in the new mantle of frontrunner. Very well prepared both substantively and stylistically for what a determined Clinton brought his way, although he might have shown more graciousness when the likeability issue arose. Defended himself but didn't get drawn into a colloquy that would take him off message. Overall, did not encounter too many mines throughout, and kept things sober and understated. Wise enough to parry the night's final question, and rather than revisiting a past debate error, offered a concise version of his positive message.

Facebook poll post-debate, most presidential:

Obama 46%
Clinton 25%
Edwards 21%
Richardson 8%

Trying to be as open-minded as possible, I came away from the debates tonight feeling that some of the Republican candidates had good performances. Ron Paul was good (only Repub to speak the truth about the cause of radical Islam). Romney seems very knowledgeable about health care. Rudy made some good points. McCain also performed pretty well. But, Fred Thompson...Fred Thompson, folks, is a dinosaur who did nothing but, scoff at Ron Paul and rephrase the question in the form of an answer. What a deadbeat.

On the Dem side...will somebody please give Bill Richardson directions back to New Mexico. Charley Gibson allowed this 2-percenter to have way too much air time. Very impressed with John Edwards performance. Barack and Hillary looked tired.

Moment of the night was when Edwards put Hillary in her place when he noted that when the voices for change speak the status quo are quick to try and silence them.

Overall, good performances from most candidates. And a great moment when candidiates from both parties were on stage together.

Obama '08

Gotta agree with you Real.

I thought the Repubs didn't make any real mistakes, but they also didn't have any fire or passion.

The effects of Obama's win in Iowa are just now being polled in NH. Professional pollsters say the full effect won't be felt until Wednesday, one day after Tuesday's primary.

Still:

Latest NH polls:

Rasmussen - Obama by +12
American Research - Obama by + 10

Tied or leading by a small margin in other NH polls. The momentum is huge for Obama. We won't see the full effect until the NH results come in Tuesday night.

I think the Dems have found the candidate that excites people to vote FOR someone instead of against someone else.

A retired Master Sgt. who attended Obama's stop in Nashua this morning said he's a life long Republican but will back Obama. Seeing a lot of that. Precinct captain for Obama who's never voted Dem working for Obama in Iowa.

And a great moment when candidiates from both parties were on stage together.

It sure was. I don't recall ever seeing that before. Great symbolic moment for a nation hungry for unity.

Ooops...

Said one:"He almost changed my mind."

Great symbolic moment for a nation hungry for unity.

What a great sentiment! If that's not something everyone can agree on, I don't know what is.

It's very exciting to see the bump Obama is receiving in NH!

The Repubs, other than Thompson, would all be a large improvement over Bush. Thompson gives off a vibe that he really isn't interested in running for President and proving himself to the voters. He exhibits the same arrogance and lack of curiosity as the White House's current resident.

The Democrats...the top three...are head and shoulders above any of the Repubs. Hillary scares me because I think she is too beholden to special interest groups. But, I would vote for her over any of the Repubs.

Obama '08

GOAT

We really are hungry for unity aren't we? I say let's put those with the megaphones on both sides of the aisle - those telling us we should deride each other rather than decide to do great things together - in their proper place. We want something better for America that can only be accomplished with a working majority of average citizens like you and I putting political differences aside long enough to see the overwhelming number of issues in which we share a common stake in resolving once and for all for the benefit of all.

Take us for example. Two strangers from differing sides of the political spectrum striking up a friendly conversation that led to our sharing a glass. It was a pleasure meeting such a good person. I don't want to look at myself as an R or a D. I am an A. American. We're all in a boat together that's gone adrift. Where we end up and how soon we get there depends on our charting a course and having a majority of Americans rowing in unison and in the same direction towards a place we used to live in: The United States of America.

Where we end up and how soon we get there depends on our charting a course and having a majority of Americans rowing in unison and in the same direction towards a place we used to live in: The United States of America.

What a great post. And the analogy at the end was so appropriate. It seems both ends of the political spectrum are rowing in opposite directions so instead of going somewhere, we are going in circles in this huge ocean of life

Welly well well!

Spud does luff a good debate! Laws Yes!

And Spud got to hear a good debate tonight.

The Democratic debate!

Spud also watched the GOPhers one too but Spud wouldn't classify it as a good debate, except maybe in the "Good fer a cheap laff" context.

First off, the difference between the two debates?

It was the difference between Night and Day.

The only one who spoke any truth or sense in the GOPher debate was Ron Paul and the other GOPhers immediately tripped over themselves in an effort to shout him down each and every single time.

Fuggin' Morons!!!

Then they concentrated on shit-kicking Romney which was kinda funny fer Spud. After Mittens kids helped deliver the Wyoming Caucus to him they were eager to knock him down a few notches.

All of the GOPhers other than Ron Paul still think that a pre-emptive war strategy is a good and neccessary one.

Idiots!

McCain stilll hauling out the same tired old line about America and Iraq being "safer but not safe" Crowing about how their were "only" 23 deaths of US service people in Iraq like that was a great thing or sommat. Still promoting Gen Dave as being the second coming or sommat. He looked as old and tired as all his sound bytes were.

Thompson taking punch at the Clinton years as being a "holiday from history"? Who writes this crap?

Rudy still in complete denial trying to sell the massive BS that the rise in jihadism in the ME and around the world having "nothing to do with American foreign policy" How stupid does he think folk are?

Mittens the magical Romulan talking about how he "thoroughly understands Jihadism" and in the same breath declaring that "we owe a debt of gratitude to Bush". WTF?! America owes a shitload more money because of Bush but gratitude? Howsabout a jail cell fer the evil fuck? Romney came off as a too slick slick piece of unmitigated horse shit tonight. Lying his ass off through his ever present fake plastic grin. So not in touch with the grim view on the ground. The rising unemployment. The recession lurking in the wings. The rising inflation wiping out the BushCo tax cut fer well over half of America. This guys feet don't even touch the ground.

Huckleberry Hound-dawg still using the Islamo-fasccist terminology. Acting like a petulant child saying how he "supported the war and the surge first". Timed withdrawal? Not me sez the Huckster. Why tell our enemies when we are gonna leave? Umm maybe because the only time the violence starts to quell is when it looks like America is gonna leave perhaps?

In the Dem debate it was surmised that the surge had less reason for the decline in Iraqi violence than the fact that the Dems won so big is '06 and the Iraqis became more optimistic that their long nightmare was coming to an end.

All in the GOPhers came off as a group of insulated, deluded chuckleheads with the exception of Ron Paul.

Spud luffed the way Thompson kept harping on his undying faith in the ability of "free market solutions" somehow unaware that empowering the multinationals and deregulating and privitising and encouraging outsouring and other so-called free market solutions were actually a large part of the current problems. Spoken like a true former lobbyist.

McCain saying that inflation was the real reason why health care costs twice as much per capita in hte US than in any other developed nations.

But enuff about the greed merchants and shills fer wots wrong with America wot did Spud think about the only real debate, the one with the Dems?

TBC.

Be Well.

Great Post AU!

Tater

Your post made a lot of very valid points and cut thru a lot of the BS to nail it down.

Fuggin' Morons!!!
Idiots!


I'm glad that was not written by an American. It is the very hatred exhibited in his post that keeps America devisive and rowing in circles. It is amazing that there are some who believe that a far left or far right agenda is good for the country. It is moderation and acceptance of boths sides that make things work -- not "fuggin' moron" or "Idiots!" mentality.

Let's hope that slimy mentality stays north of the 49th and doesn't ooze its way down here.

First off before Spud starts talking about the Dem debate did anybody notice a very significant factor there tonight? The fact that they had largely stopped their knee jerk trashing of Hillary (with the exception of one swipe at "Hillary-care) and only talked about Barack Obama and his message of hope and real change.

Spud sure as hell noticed.

There's a "real change" right there! ^_^

Luffed the first question and all the candidates response to it. Essentially they were asked "Has the surge worked?" They were asked this like it was an undeniable reality. They all answered in the negative. They were all right to do so.

Barack held as he always has that it was "a mistake to go in in the first place" He noted that it's costs were "upwords of 1 Trillion and may end up costing 2 trillion in money largely borrowed from China" The results of suge Barack noted was to "bring the violence levels back to where we were two years ago" Hardly a stunning success. Barack also made points by declaring that America had to be "as careful getting out of Iraq and we were careless going in". Strewth!

Hill sed at one point that to believe in the success of the surge "required a suspension of disbelief". Asked if she still held that position she re-affirmed it. Good on Hill fer that thought Spud. She repeated her sound bite that it was "time to bring the troops home quickly and responsibly" a coupla times. Her heart wasnb't really in it though, thought Spud. She sounded as old and tired as John McCain. In fact, after so much time spent stump speaking her voice was begining to resemble that of Bea Arthur of Maude fame. Spud liked her line about telling the Malarkey government that there would be "no more blank cheques coming". She also wondered aloud wot was to be the fate of all them Iraqis who have sided with the US who will most likely be subject to harsh reprisals. Spud flashed on the final days of Saigon before it became Ho Chi Min City and all the blood that flowed from those unlucky enuff to miss those last few helicopters. Made Spud sad did that. Over 100,000 Iraqis face that same fate.

Bill Richardson seemed almost lost on that stage. He's painfully aware that it's largely a three way race and he just barely managed to squeak in with his 2% of the last caucus. Bill didn't make any real gains tonight but Spud would still like to give him the Miss Congeniality award for the evening. He did the "why can't we all get along" thing?" in such a way that Rodney King woulda been proud. Apparently Bill's answer ot everything tonight was eitehr A) But I'm the only one here who was a Governor and B) Can't we just hug this out? Nice guy is Bill. Too nice fer the times. Sorry.

Edwards was the real surprise tonight. Obama rawked as Spud knew he would but if Spud were to be perfectly honest Edwards tied him in terms of "winning" the debate tonight with his eloquence and passion for change. He made an excellent point about how violence levels decreased in Basra after the Brits announced they were piulling out. He alos made points by saying that he would attempt to bring all the troops oput of Iraq within 9 to 10 months and end all combat operations immediately. That would lessen the violence stupendously fer both American troops and Iraqis.

TBC

Be Well.

On a slightly funny note Spud did develope a new nickname fer Bill Richardson tonight. Spud is call him "Thumper". Not as in "Bible Thumper" like the GOPhers Huckster and Mittens but just because he kept tapping his podium to underscore his points making a non stop series of thumps during all his time at the mic. Spud was gonna call him "Tapper" but Spud thought folks might mis-percieve that to be a Larry Craig thing.

Here's a weird thing Spud caught. Bill sed the Iraqi War had cost the US "570 Billion dollars" Edwards sed "600 Billion". Hill didn't put a price tag on it. Spud believes that the "1 trillion dollar price tag approaching 2 trillion (after all the Vets come home and need treatment)" by Obama was more realistic.

Everybody pointed out how the Iraq misadventure had caused Afghanistan to fail and OBL to escape. A point worth noting thinks Spud.

Then there was a break.

Be Well.

Thanks GOATMAN. Just speaking from the heart.

TY too Repug.

I'd hazzard a guess that I merely said what 90% of us here at Drudge feel that way whichever side of the center we're on.

I'm glad that was not written by an American. It is the very hatred exhibited in his post that keeps America devisive and rowing in circles.

Issues, issues, issues and specifics, specifics, specifics
That's what I want to hear about. I want to hear meat and potato talk about what is going to be done right now. Yes, it's nice were all kumbayaing together but platitudes don't fix the real stuff we have to deal with -- rising unemployment, disappearing health insurance, Bush's free trade agenda run amok that's almost destroyed this country, use of pre-emptive war as our foreign policy, stagnant wages, our disappearing middle class.

Somebody has to stay on earth until everyone flying high with their happy balloons right now decide to come back to earth and see and discuss reality -- unpleasant though it may be.

I live in reality - in the here and now -- not in some distant "future full of hope and dreams." What is going to be done about the very real problems now facing my nation? Not "dreams, the future, all togetherness" -- which will all come to a screeching halt the minute the last song is danced to and the music stops playing at the next Presidential inaugral ball.

I watched only the Repug part of the debate. I can barely tolerate Huck, but the rest of them are NUTS.
The ignore the history of our involvement in the middle east. Anyone who thinks that our foreign policy has no effect on terrorism IS A MORON.
Same old, cut taxes, let the market take care of all our problems, Fuck the poor, fuck the people who do not have heathcare and back corporations over the middle class every chance they get.
Yeah, I trust big business to worship the almighty dollar and kiss the ass of profit,that is what they are designed to be.
What amazes me if how so called Christians also worship capitalism, and the dollar over the teaching of their Christ.
If Repugs had their way we would have 6 day work weeks, child labor, no OSHA, no Unions and a slave like work force.
The perfect capitalist society. Fuck democracy.
From the Right

AU

My personal political opinion doesn't reflect on the fact that you wrote a terrific post! You should be a personal speechwriter for someone. You definitely have the talent and a way with words.

You should be a personal speechwriter for someone.

speechwriter? He should run for office with his upthread post as his platform!

Spud,

You give Thumper a lot more credit for his performance than I do. I thought he rambled, his thoughts weren't well organized and he controlled more air time than his 2% would have dictated.

As I stated earlier, I thought John Edwards was very impressive. And his calling Hillary on her bogus claim as an agent of change was the best part of the debate.

Ron Paul was the star of the GOP debates. But, as you said, the others jumped in to silence him. I had never heard a GOP politician ever articulate, as Paul did, what is at the core of Islamic hatred for this country. The US history of meddling in the affairs of third world countries is absolutely the source of such hatred toward us. The world does not hate Americans or our freedoms or liberties. They hate the actions of our government.

Obama '08

Yo, NAVYVET50, I see we are of the same mindset tonight.

After the break...

The moderator made the point that folks were responding much better to Obama and Edwards impassioned pleas for change and that Hillary was being percieved as "unlikable". Hill under-played this and got a sympathy laff by declaring that thatt statement "hurt my feelings".

Awwww! Po' thing!

The fact that nobody even seemed to notice Bill Richardson enuff to discuss him apparently hurt Bill's feelings too. It was a little levity that was pleasant, fer Spud anyway.

Another funny moment came when the moderator asked Bill the question "Is relative youth a deterent?" Bill went "Eh? Wot's that sonny?" Okay, actually he just asked the guy to repeat the question Spud saw the humour in it.

Hillary tried to defend herself on the perception that she wasn't an "agent of change" by pointing to her "35 years of making change".


Hill did note that electing a woman POTUS was a real change and got an obligatory round of applause for that. Spud still thinks it would be better if the first woman POTUS wasn't also an ex-FLOTUS.

Apparently, FLOTUS looks good on a resume fer POTUS in Hill's book. Oddly enuff she never mentioned her time being a legal beagle fer Wal-Mart. That page on her resume is redacted, oddly enuff.

Obama got a laugh when the moderator asked him to comment on all the GOPhers commentary on him that was asked in the first debate. Obama wryly noted that he was switching back and forth between the GOPhers and the Redskins game (They lost) apparently not all that interested in their lame assed opinions. Spud laffed at THAT!

TBC.

Be Well.

Richardson was right about the most important item NOT discussed, education. Without a trainable workforce, all the discussion about the economy, taxes, and the middle class will be moot.

Last post. Honest!

Everybody took time out to notice that BushCo has been an unmitigated disaster in both foreign and domestic policy but blind folk half-ways around the world can see that all too clearly.

Beyond that? Spud was kinda amused by some of the commercials. During the first Debate Spud noted that one of it's proud sponsors was teh good folk from the Florida Department of Citrus. Wot's the matter the New Hampshire department of Citrus wasn't quick enuff on the draw there or wot? Just when Spud was wondering about how he was gonna stay up fer the entirety oof both debates a Cialis commercial came on.Spud found the timing there funny. Not THAT kind of "up" thought Spud. Spud also had a quiet chuckle during the GOPher debate when an ad fer sleeping pills came on? Listening to GOPhers drone on endlessly it seemed kinda redundant.

All in All? Obama and Edwards tied tonight. Hillary came in a distant third. Bill "Thumper" Richardson as previously mentioned got the Miss Congeniality award.

Ron Paul was the only one of the GOPhers worth listening but every time he opened his mouth the other ass-wipes jumped all over him.

Spud approved of the "ask the question and then get the fuck out of the way" format tonight as well as the back to back double-header kinda approach.

NAWOB.

Obama '08.

Be Well.

PS: Hillary playing the "why are those nasty boys (ie Obama and Edwards) ganging up on me?" was, admittedly, a bit of a chuckle fer Spud.

Spud felt that both Obama and Edwards are taking this election "deeply personally" and that that's a good thing.

Spud thinks that Hill was just playing canny politics tonight and that the grueling campaign trail is taking a lot of the stuffing out of her.

Obama is going down like a 40 ounce malt liquor at the club on saturday night.

Obama is going down like a plate of fried chicken in a room full of hungry black guys.

Obama is going down like a Lesbian on a porno set.

Obama is going down like Spuds mother after a drunken fight with her loser husband who bitch slaps her for ever having Spud in the first place.

Yep the only thing going down faster than Obama is Spuds pants when Buffalo Bob comes a callin.

Bee Swell

Tater

Your post made a lot of very valid points and cut thru a lot of the BS to nail it down.

~CChris

Thanx fer the kind words CChris. ^_^

...that slimy mentality

~Das Goat

Awww, why d'ya gotta be such a hater, Goatman?

Is that a "Texas thing" that Spud can never really understand?

^_^

Be Well.

PS: No need to respond to that question Goat just tell Spud all about yer day and maybe share a muffin recipe or two or three or four...

Let's hope that slimy mentality stays north of the 49th and doesn't ooze its way down here.

Posted by goatman

Obama is going down like Spuds mother after a drunken fight with her loser husband who bitch slaps her for ever having Spud in the first place.

Yep the only thing going down faster than Obama is Spuds pants when Buffalo Bob comes a callin.

Posted by DUMSPUD

Goat,
So much for the audacity of hope!

Awww, why d'ya gotta be such a hater, Goatman?

"Slimy mentality" doesn't quite rate up there with "fuggin' morons" and "idiots", but for you, spud, I'll work on it if you like!


... maybe share a muffin recipe ...

And here's a muffin recipe just for you, spud. But if I were you, I'd double the amount of bran it calls for. You've got a lot of shit to get out of you.

6 cups boiling water
6 cups whole bran cereal
3 cups shortening
9 cups white sugar
12 eggs
12 cups buttermilk
15 cups all-purpose flour
5 tablespoons baking soda
1 tablespoon salt
12 cups whole bran cereal

DIRECTIONS
In a large bowl, add boiling water to the first 6 cups of bran cereal, cool.
Cream shortening or margarine, sugar, eggs, and buttermilk together. Add to bran mixture. Stir in flour, baking soda, and salt. Fold in the 12 cups