"God revealed to me two things about the timing of the rapture. God specifically told me 2007 was the year, because I was only going to have from 3 to 3 1/2 years to spread the message after my book was published. It was published in June 2004. Then He showed me that me and my family were swimming in the swimming pool the day before the rapture. The fact that we were swimming immediately made me think summer. I was not sure if God was showing me summerlike weather or if He was trying to tell me literal summertime. Since literal summer ended on September 21st, God obviously meant it would be summerlike weather here where I live in Florida. It is summerlike weather here the majority of the year. This year 2007 we seem to be breaking all kinds of heatwave records. Our unheated pool is normally too cool to swim in past October. But this year we have stayed in the 80's until now, which is mid December. Our summerlike weather just keeps hanging on. I can not control or manipulate the weather. It is in God's hands. Once our pool water gets around 72 or 73 degrees we close it down for the year. Even if it stays warm enough to swim all year, 2007 is still the year of the rapture. The prophetic dream God gave me was about the rapture and how the rapture related to my own personal life and the town I live in. The prophetic message that I believe God wants me to share is that the rapture of the church (God's children) will happen this year 2007!! "




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So, what's the point of gloating about the approaching extinction of the human race, but crowing over the glories of science?

If science can't save mankind from extinction, then what good is it? Save as entertainment. And, if it's primarily entertainment, isn't that money better spent on things that are more directly fun before we all die?

What's the difference between a religous person predicting the end of the world in 2007, and a scientist hypothesizing it might end circa 2030?

If being a scientist doesn't save you from being an ass all your life, what good is it? If the world is going to end, why would anyone want to spend that time with an ass?

"THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF IS THAT I RELEASED THE DREAM AT THE WRONG TIME AND GOT THE BOOK PUBLISHED TOO EARLY. MAYBE THE DREAM HAD SOME KIND OF SYMBOLIC MEANING INSTEAD OF A LITERAL MEANING THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE OUT YET. I STILL DO NOT KNOW WHAT I HAVE DONE WRONG AND WHY THE PROPHECY FAILED."


Communication break down, it's always the same

Communication break down, drives me insane.

Happy New Year. Maybe between now and the secular Apocalypse enough will be discovered about human neurochemistry you can be happy for a while despite your best efforts.

Many dems/leftists/liberals on this board predicted we'd bomb Iran.

Just goes to show there are false prophets in all religions.

If the guy read the book with any comprehension he'd have rememberd no one knows the time.

Gullible people are nothing new and without them the liberal ideology of something for nothing would have no traction and there would be no democrat party.

Happy new year.

"Gullible people are nothing new"

Coming from you, that qualifies as a revelation. Welcome to the real world.

For a moment I thought that this was an early Darwin Award entry.

SOB it is!

"Many dems/leftists/liberals on this board predicted we'd bomb Iran."

It ain't over 'til th' fat lady sings...

Besides, most rethug/righty-tighty/neocons on this board (and everywhere else) want to see Iran bombed.

So take yer false prophets/religion crap and file it under flowers and chocolate.

Dave-
What I don't want is Iran to go nuke. If, at the end of the day, diplomacy/bribing doesn't work, then that's the only remaining step and something I'd support. But I don't advocate jumping to that step without reasonably exhausting other channels.

Are you OK with Iran having nukes? If so, why? If not, what exactly would you do if diplomacy fails?

On the rapture topic, no human knows the time or date of His return. And anyone who claims to know is probably someone who's trying to sell you something. Avoid them.

Are you OK with the West having gunpowder? If so, why? ........
-Ancient China

there would be no democrat party.


Posted by Kris_P_Bacon

Except there is no "democrat" party. There is a "Democratic" party however.

"What I don't want is Iran to go nuke."


To think that you can stop any country from aquiring modern technology is completely and totally ludicrous. If Iran wants to, Iran will develop a nuclear weapon eventually, and there's nothing any government can do to stop them. And anybody who thinks Iran would start using nukes if they had 'em is a fucking idiot. N.Korea's got 'em, Pakistan's got 'em, India's got 'em, Russia's got 'em and so fucking what? The only thing that will change if Iran gets a nuke is governments like ours won't be able to threaten them with invasion. Big fucking deal.

And on rapture topic, superstition is yer enemy and should be avoided.

And people think the Muslims are nutty.

"If there is a God, let him strike me down... See? I told you that asdf ljkl asdf lkjlk afkl... oiwerp wepo erpo esdpf!"
-- Steve Martin

What's the difference between a religous person predicting the end of the world in 2007, and a scientist hypothesizing it might end circa 2030?

The difference is: Christians have a perfect two thousand year record of being wrong every year. Some scientists are Christians first, scientists second.

If science can't save mankind from extinction, then what good is it?

It proves that Christian apocalypticism has no basis in scientific fact. I'll take my chances on science.

That God, he's such a kidder!

DAVE-
We disagree on the Iran nuke issue. I think Israel might also have a differing opinion. Whether Iran decides to blow up a nuke or, more likely, use a surrogate to blow up a nuke, arming them as such only brings the world a step closer to destruction.

I think we'll find a way out of this issue without bombing Iran. OTOH, I think Israel won't be so patient. They would be first in line for destruction in an armed Middle East. It's not in our interest to sit back and let our potential adversary load its weapon while we sit back and watch.

Are you OK with Iran having nukes?

Bush is okay with NK having them.

My biggest concern isn't what happens IF Iran gets nukes, mainlt cause Iran isn't half the nutcase the zionists want you to believe it is,but what happens to the existing nukes in Pakistan, which already has ties to al queda, who are nutcases, and is slowly falling apart. I expect if al queda gets one, the plane that delivers it to NY will have F-16 escorts, thanks to the Bushies.

Ray, I've never encountered a man that's read as much Scripture as you appear to have done and not understood it.

Oorah's right. Christ essentially said that the End would come as a complete surprise to everyone. I'll bet you could find that verse more quickly than I could, Ray.

Christ's warnings doesn't stop people from second-guessing Him, or making fun of the second-guessers.

"It proves Christian Apocalypticism has no basis in scientific fact...."

Just silly. It never could, because the Second Coming is by definiiton never be available to the scientific method.

Outside of your knowledge or power, Ray. Outside the power of strange people who name-drop individuals I may actually know better than they.

The problem with science, Ray, is that ultimately it's just people and what people do. So, if you have faith in people, I suppose you're just fine. But if you really don't, I sometimes wonder what the hell your talking about.

"It's not in our interest to sit back and let our potential adversary load its weapon while we sit back and watch."

Fear.

It's whats fer dinner.

"What's the difference between a religous person predicting the end of the world in 2007, and a scientist hypothesizing it might end circa 2030? "


Uh, science?

"Ray, I've never encountered a man that's read as much Scripture as you appear to have done and not understood it."

That's your problem, Zed: Ray does understand it.

If you think you are receiving messages from god, see a doctor. If you have friends who receive messages from god for you----get new friends.

Let's see now, the "end" has been predicted pretty much every year now since the so-called evangelicals began quacking about 120 years ago. How many times do you have to be completely wrong about something so "important" as the "apocalypse" before people just give up on this crap? See you all in 2013!

"Uh, science...."

Missed the point. The point is science is just one more thing that dies when people do. The point also is that I've actually seen many more "scientists" predict human extinction than Christians.

It seems to provide some dull pleasure for them that, after they're gone, everyone has too go eventually as well.

Our understanding of physics will be left for the benefit of roaches, who may well prefer to eat the paper it's printed on.

"Ray does understand it...."

I've read Ray's stuff. He's a bright man but he doesn't care to be bright about this. His ideas are what thoroughgoing bias creates.

"2007, and a scientist hypothesizing it might end circa 2030?"

It's not 2030 yet.
There are plenty of nukes.


"began quacking about 120 years ago"

Actually Jesus told his followers it would be in their lifetimes.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Jesus lied.

"There are plenty of nukes...."

Thanks for making my point.

Maybe science, having created those nukes, will kindly stand in their way after launch?

The point is science is just one more thing that dies when people do.

So is faith. Humans invented god, much like Ron Popeil invented the Showtime Rotisserie.

You DO realize that much, don't you? I have no problem with religion, as long as people realize that it's based on the imagination of other humans. When you start to think that your stories have real-life, global implications for the entirety of humanity is when it starts to be a problem.

Ray, I've never encountered a man that's read as much Scripture as you appear to have done and not understood it.

That's comical Zed. The whole freakin Bible is composed of star myths from the Zodiac. I'm in the process now of building my case with graphics.

Yes I know people have been believing this stuff for thousands of ears. That's why physical evidence is so powerful.

"Thanks for making my point."

Translation: "I'm in over my head, don't know what to say, and absofuckinlootly can't admit I'm wrong."

"So is faith...."

Well, Ness---If that's all there is to it, we are all well and truly fucked. And I mean all of us.

"I have no problem with religion, as long as people realize it's based on the imagination of human beings...."

An idea dealt with directly by Scripture. It actually poses a problem in the binary logic so beloved by the "scientists". If you read the book, you of course know what I'm speaking of immediately.

Ness---As a man of medicine, why don't you tell these nice folks what kind of world we could have when people realize to what extent they might be able to implant humans with animal DNA and make just shitloads of profit from that?

Of course, we could all pray the nukes get us before that happens. And prayer is all we'll have, because I expect you people will follow the money.

"Can't admit I'm wrong...."

It would be easier for you to start at the top of this thread and read everything.

When will these religious types pull their heads out of the ass of the church and the Bible? The whole fucking thing is a ruse to keep morons believing the big lie. How many times do these idiots have to predict the end and then be wrong for you to wake up and smell religion for what it is...bullshit!
Yeah...the end is coming this year! Right. And the check is in the mail;I promise I'll pull out;I won't cum in your mouth,etc.,etc.,etc.

Oorah's right. Christ essentially said that the End would come as a complete surprise to everyone. I'll bet you could find that verse more quickly than I could, Ray.

What Jesus meant is that he didn't know when the astrological Age of Aries would pass to Pisces. He said the end of the AGE. It's all about astrology.

"The whole freaking Bible is composed of star myths from the Zodiac...."

Wonderful. The peer-reviewed journal studies supporting this can be found where?

"Wonderful. The peer-reviewed journal studies supporting this can be found where?"

WTF do you care?

"WTF do you care....?"

I don't know. Since we are talking about "real" things, I just sort of wanted to know what other educated perons had noticed besides Ray.

Our Flat-Earther dejure burbles up "What's the difference between a religous(sic) person predicting the end of the world in 2007, and a scientist hypothesizing it might end circa 2030? "

Because the scientist isn't producing his prediction out of thin air. In that regard, he's got a couple legs up on those who get their "visions" by chatting with imaginary celestial overlords. Maybe you can call up Pat Robertson and have him advise Yahowee Jehovus to zing a meteor or two my way? Ol' Squint & Hiss doesn't have too much luck being right in any of his hoary predictions either. You guys might have better luck taking your apocalyptic cues from the Psychic Friends Network.

Still thumping? I predict you'll start retorting your shop-worn pious generalities in three...two...one...

Zed, with you it's just sophistry. Move along.

If that's all there is to it, we are all well and truly fucked. And I mean all of us.


Well, duh. Humanity most likely will not go on forever. There will be an end eventually, whether it be from our own hands or the eventual fate of space and time itself. That being said, there is no reason to read some sort of mysticism or divinity into that.

If you read the book, you of course know what I'm speaking of immediately.

I don't happen to have a bible on hand, so perhaps you could post the text. I'm not trying to be snide, I'm just curious.

As a man of medicine, why don't you tell these nice folks what kind of world we could have when people realize to what extent they might be able to implant humans with animal DNA and make just shitloads of profit from that?

What is your point? That is but one possible outcome. Whether or not it is a positive one is yet to be seen. However, I can think of many worse outcomes.

And prayer is all we'll have, because I expect you people will follow the money.

Ah yes. Because the world of religion is entirely disconnected from money and other material things.

You gotta be kidding me.

Zed
You have a habit of changing the topic to non sequiturs when I bring up something you don't want to deal with. There were no peer reviewers during Galileo's time either. Evidence is it's own authority.
It doesn't matter to you anyway.

Ol' Squint & Hiss

FF.

I just sort of wanted to know what other educated perons had noticed besides Ray.

Go to Alexa.com and look up usbible.com.

Zed

The stories of the OT bible come from older discarded religions. It has been well documented. Genesis==Adam and Eve--The Garden of Eden--The Flood--the Tower of Babel. All stories from older religions---and the originals make a lot more sense.

Same with the Jesus myth. He wasn't the only one born of a virgin--or resurrected.

I know many of you are very disappointed, but I assure you no one is as disappointed as I am.

Only some whacked out religious extremist could be "disappointed" that the world did not end in 2007.

Thank you for returning, Bowa, like the prodigy sun after his ass kicking.

Bless ewe and a happy new year.

Amen.

He wasn't the only one born of a virgin--or resurrected.

You're missing the point. He's the only one that MATTERED!

-Sincerely,

John Q. Thumper.

Wow - such venom in here for the people of faith! Interestingly, I don't see these faithful folks exactly going mano-a-mano on behalf of the failed predictor, yet you anti-God types are all over 'em like hyenas. You seem to be proselytizing for your anti-religion vs. these others who are only trying to defend their faith. Why are you guys so anti-God?

It seems that people like Oorah are in the majority of real-world Christians who are subtly dismissing the guy with their own more mainstream Christian view. That is, Jesus says no one knows the day or hour. Why do you counterattack so fiercely? It makes you look more Inquisition-like than most Christians I've seen in my relatively short time in the DR. It looks this: BELIEVE IN NON-BELIEF OR BE BRANDED WITH ANY ONE OF A NUMBER OF INSULTING OR FILTHY NAMES.

Mr. Fair, lay off those vodka chasers after the screwdrivers. It just makes you sound like an ass.

Mr. Fair, lay off those vodka chasers after the screwdrivers. It just makes you sound like an ass.
Posted by Bennybenedictus


Benny - not an impressive response on your part. At least make a retort.

FYI: Last night it was Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and then champagne at midnight. I'm sober now.

Hey, here's some late-breaking news: You don't make the rules, you don't define the game.

Whatever you're doing, lay off: you sound like a horse's ass.

Go away, sober up, and come back when you're ready to play with the adults.

Mrfair

In Revelation, Jesus said he would come soon. Don't you think that after 2,000 years, we can safely conclude Jesus was wrong.

Anyway, Jesus time is almost all over. In not too many years the sun will enter Aquarius on the vernal equinox and the Age of Pisces will fade into history.

Thank you for returning, Bowa, like the prodigy sun after his ass kicking.

It's pretty obvious that I'm the one doing the "ass kicking" here.

Why else would I continue to come back? It's because I enjoy seeing how hypocritical the Lefties here are-- as they get all self-righteous talking about peace, diversity and tolerance, and then quickly resort to namecalling and personal attacks the moment they are faced with a challenge to their worldview.

It's hilarious. And you can be sure -- the "jokes" on you, not me.

Hope you have a great 2008. I know I will.

Belief in non-belief? If you are going to say stupid things like that, don't expect to be treated with respect.

Benny, I'm not making up the rules. This IS the Drudge RETORT, no? Offer an actual retort instead of calling people asses and accusing them of being drunk. See above: I made a couple of assertions.

the Age of Pisces will fade into history.

Not to worry. The Moonies stand ready to fill the void.

Mrfair
In Revelation, Jesus said he would come soon. Don't you think that after 2,000 years, we can safely conclude Jesus was wrong.
Anyway, Jesus time is almost all over. In not too many years the sun will enter Aquarius on the vernal equinox and the Age of Pisces will fade into history.
Posted by Ray


Ray - I'll admit that is one of the most controversial verses in the Bible. We could probably create an entire new DR to work on questions like that. But please address the actual questions in my post.

So now atheism is a left wing conspiracy against religion? Go back to your play pen Bowa.

It's pretty obvious that I'm the one doing the "ass kicking" here.

You must have a sore ass.

Actualy I do belive that Jesus hit it on the nail with the in the lifetimes comment.

Sorry folks but the trump and the shout already happened near on 2000 years ago and the elect were all raptured, we are the decendants of what was left.

If you doubt me turn on the news and tell me that you think this is a world that God would allow his elect to live in.

The Jehova's Witnesses hit it 144,000 is all God is taking and they are done gone.

Party on Wayne, Party on Garth

Ray - in any case, I do not agree with Rapture-predictors and never have.

"It's pretty obvious that I'm the one doing the "ass kicking" here.
Posted by Bowa"

You just earned yourself a great big Funny Flag.

Mrfair

In this insane world we live in, I'm driven by a passion for truth.

The issue about the end of the world is only controversial within the constricts of theology. Jesus wasn't predicting the end of the world, he was predicting the end of the Age. At the turn of the first century, the sun was passing from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces.

So now atheism is a left wing conspiracy against religion? Go back to your play pen Bowa.

Huh?

When did I say that?

Ray, You must have me confused with someone else on this thread. Guess I have you so unhinged and twisted up that now you are just attributing any comment you disagree with to me.

LOL

May I suggest "ben gay" for that rear of yours. Some of my Liberal friends told me that it works wonders. And they would know, they've had a "sore ass' for a year, from all that kicking President Bush has been doing.

"from all that kicking President Bush has been doing."

Yeah, over 3,900 at last count.

You should be proud.

No limit on the amount of blood that should be expended for partisan purposes, right?

You should be proud.

I am Doc. I am. I am very proud of what our nation and troops are doing to promote democracy and prevent the spread of Islamo-fascism throughout the world.

And the only people I see acting out of partisan purposes instead of for the good of the whole nation is those Democrats in Congress who are determined to hand their own nation a defeat in Iraq. Thankfully, they have not been able to achieve their goals.

And they would know, they've had a "sore ass' for a year, from all that kicking President Bush has been doing.

Only in your dream world kid. One year to go and it's going to be a humdinger. Not to mention the years of aftershock sure to follow. You can't see these thing in your little world

"It's hilarious. And you can be sure -- the "jokes" on you, not me." -Bowa

Bowa, write this down....this may be the only time I agree with you ever.

If you just look at the mockery and foulness of all the non-believers on this thread, you would think they have something about faith that they innately fear worse than any evil mentionable.

Of course, for those that get the bible...not only is it expected, but a strong reinforcement that proves that God is telling the Truth.

Now if you could only see how much bullshit was in the affairs of men that you support.

Two different issues. And you mockers shouldn't treat the word of God like you do the word of Gov't....Read Ephesians 6:12 and you will realize that they are in conflict with each other.

Hey, but what do I know, right????

Bowa,

Near as I can tell politics did not enter this thread until you did. Must you screw up so many conversations?

What's the difference between a religous person predicting the end of the world in 2007, and a scientist hypothesizing it might end circa 2030?

Um, there is actually a connection there.

Too many religious wingnuts have a deep personal faith in what they percieve of as "God's Plan" (tm)

One of the reasons that too little is being done to keep this planet from mass extinction is because of religion.

Like James Baker being put in charge of the enviroment and then saying there's no need to do anything cos the rapture is coming.

Like too many folk on the earth replicating themself until the world's population has reached such dangerous levels.

Can't suggest moderating that cos it's everyone's God given right to reproduce as much as they like cos "God sed so" (tm) ie. "Go forth and multiply".

Beside's ...sex education, birth control and abortion are SO DARNED IMMORAL!

Wot? Like FUCKING ECO-CIDE ISN'T MORESO?

To much faith in "God's Plan (tm) has lead directly to too little faith in man's ability to see the dangers of over-population, over-pollution, and under-education.

People who actually believe in an "End Times" scenario should be kept as far as possible from the levers of governmental control.

Instead America only votes for folks who are religious.

That's just fucking nuts.

Of course it's not just religions fault.

Cognitive dissonance sowed on the subject of global warming and then bought into by brain dead asswipes and sold in blogworld by astroturfers is also a significant contributer.

Be Well.

PS: Bowa thinks Dumbya is "kickin' ass".

Damn, is that moron ever right?

Dumbya don't kick ass he fucks ass.

He's been fucking America and much of the world up the ass since the day he was selected.

Bowa likes being fucked up the ass by Bush.

Been going on so long Bowa don't even need lube no more.

Bowa's the neo-classic "Righty Not-So-Tighty"

Near as I can tell politics did not enter this thread until you did. Must you screw up so many conversations?

Whatsleft, I didn't screw up anything. You can blame "BennyBenedictus" for that. I can't help it if people are so drawn to me that they must make almost every thread about me when I appear.

My initial comment on this thread was in response to the preachers apology to his congregation telling them he was disappointed that his prophecy did not come true. I said, "Only some whacked out religious extremist could be "disappointed" that the world did not end in 2007".

Certainly not a "far-right" position by any means. But enough to get under "BennyBenedictus" skin so much that he needed to deflect the thread and make a comment about me personally saying, "Thank you for returning, Bowa, like the prodigy sun after his ass kicking."

LOL

Given that I don't agree with him...I decided to respond to his comment.

But don't try to blame me for starting this. Take it up with Benny.

"...you wouldn't know truth if it knocked you down and pissed all over you."

You sure as hell didn't notice it.

If you just look at the mockery and foulness of all the non-believers on this thread, you would think they have something about faith that they innately fear worse than any evil mentionable.

Bocaink, my own personal view is that for someone to have such a strong belief that God does not exist, they must first have a strong knowledge of who God is -- and have decided by their definition of what God must be, He does not exist. So in essence, Atheists prove God's existence because they maintain so strongly that they can prove that He does not exist.

As a Christian, I wish I had as strong a knowing as atheists do in God. They seem to know who He should be far better then me. While athesists know God so well they can reject his existence, I have to take it on "Faith" that He exists -- thankfully it is a faith that has been strengthened by a number of life experiences that let's me know that I am not running the show, He is.

Now if you could only see how much bullshit was in the affairs of men that you support.

I think there is always plenty of "bullshit" in the affairs of all men -- those that I support, those that you support -- humans are very fallible, humans make mistakes. My political views are in disagreement with many people here...that doesn't make me wrong, it just means that I have chosen to post to a site that is populated mostly by people who don't share my politics ...in fact, if anything -- the correctness of my views have been strengthened by putting them up against those that disagree-- and I have found few, if any compelling arguments made by anyone here to change my political beliefs at all.

And Spudders,

Please don't cast all believers into such a narrow box. People with and without faith are easily led into stupidity. I don't know where in the bible it says to screw the environment because the rapture is coming. Although, I do think the Earth will destroy people before we destroy the Earth. It's bigger and extinction is proven science.

I think our leadership should have a strong moral belief to make THEMSELVES stronger people...the problem always comes when they think they understand "God's Plan" and really take the works of God into their own hands....that is the sign of a false witness. The whole point is to be good, faithful people who trust God, and leave the affairs of God in God's hands. Anyone who uses the name of God to carry out their own agenda, misses the whole "Render unto Caesar" lesson of Jesus.

The affairs of men should be undertaken from a worldly perspective....likewise, people who try to analyze faith and God through scientific method and philosophical rationalization, do don't understand the first tenet of faith.

Once again...they are too separate entities...and both of the offender-types are as wrong as each other.

That's why I think it is so important to read and understand what the Bible is really about....because it makes this discernment so much easier.

With that said....all the best to ya. You would make a darn fine re-believer.

err that was "don't understand the first tenet of faith"

"do" was a false start....5 letters, repeat second post.

Youknownothing.

You can't handle the truth.

You don't even have a passing relationship with reality in any form.

Truth is so far beyond yer ken it's scary.

Do you believe in the Rapture?

Do you believe in an end times scenario?

Spud don't.

If yer gonna come on here and just hurl insults you will be treated like the WOB that you are.

If you wanna share some of these alleged truths you say are beyond Ray's grasp do go right ahad and attempt to enlighten folks.

Then you'll go from being a mere WOB to a DR laughingstock.

Fer you that's a promotion.

On Topic?

Crazy Seventh Day Adventist lady tries using the Public Transport system as a way of proselytising?

The Bus company was right to kick her ass to the curb.

Be Well.

"I have found few, if any compelling arguments made by anyone here to change my political beliefs at all."

Hence, why I said I can agree with you once.

Your political views are not just different, they are misguided and fueled by a disdain for the fundamental principles of America.

These prognosticators ought to stick to predicting the economy. At least they are bound to get it right once every few years. These rapture folks so far are batting .000 and will continue to do so.

My initial comment on this thread was in response to the preachers apology to his congregation telling them he was disappointed that his prophecy did not come true. I said, "Only some whacked out religious extremist could be "disappointed" that the world did not end in 2007".

First, I did NOT mention any particular comment. My statement, and I quote myself, was:

Near as I can tell politics did not enter this thread until you did.

Oops, wrong thread fer the whole "Bible Bus" thingy but WTF, religious wingnuttery is religious wingnuttery where ere you find it.

I don't know where in the bible it says to screw the environment because the rapture is coming. Although, I do think the Earth will destroy people before we destroy the Earth. It's bigger and extinction is proven science.

~BocaInk

Here's the deal on that. The biggest and most virulently political religious group in the US is undoubtedly the Evangelist crowd. Recently on a CNN special Spud learned of an Evangelical minister of a mega-church who had an enviromental epiphany who tried to preach the message of good stewardship of the earth as being a moral neccessity. Members of his own flock left after he was criticised by leaders of the evDEVILical movement that such talk "took the focus off the proper concerns" of the evDEVILicals.

Which were, incidently, keeping gay folk from achieving equal rights via blocking gay marriage legislation and making abortion illegal (ie contributing to the over-population and misery of the earth)

Basically, they were saying you can't preach that moral, sane and neccessary message because you must spend all your time preaching an immoral one.

Even when you take the rapture out of the equation the politicised evDEVILical movement in the US is part of the problem not part of the solution. An impediment to equality and morality and sustainability not a means toward that end.

Spud left the Catholic Church because Spud outgrew them in a moral sense. If they ever want to catch up to Spud it's them who will have to run to catch up. Spud'll wait for 'em if neccessary but there is no way in hell that Spud is gonna back backwards to them.

Spud was a little disapointed in your perception that the earth is too big to kill and that "the Earth will destroy people before People destroy the earth".

We live in an age where we will, from this point on, continue to hand down to subsequent generations a planet that has been deeply lessened by our deliberate and/or unthinking foolhardiness.

Mass Extinctions at a rate never seen before are already upon us. The coral reefs are dying, the ice caps are melting, the water becomes more and more poisonous, the air becomes more and more polluted, bio mass is disappearing at a stagerring rate both on land and in the sea.

Wot will we tell the succeeding generations?


Oops sorry, we thought the rapture was coming or that Global Warming wasn't caused by man AINT GONNA CUT IT.

Sorry ...we were greedy, ridiculous, stupid, short sighted, propaganda blinded sheeple would be more truthful but it's still a lousy excuse.

Spud comes to teach morality V3.0

There is still time to learn.

Be Well.

Spud, who cares what you believe.........

POSTED BY YOUKNEWWHO


It would seem YOUKNEWWHO DOES!

Your political views are not just different, they are misguided and fueled by a disdain for the fundamental principles of America.

You may believe that, but it is not true. It is because I love this nation and believe in the fundamental principles of America that I believe as I do. And I find it unfortunate that you would accuse me personally of having disdain for this nation that I love so much, when you don't even know me.

In fact, if anything it is this "intolerance" of other peoples viewpoints and the breast beating of the self-righteous that claim America for themselves which is polarizing this nation-- and that intolerance can be found on botht the left and Right.

As I have said many time before, I might think the views of many people here are misguided and wrong and would be terrible for America if put into practice - but I don't believe that they hold those views because of a "disdain for the fundamental principles of America", I am in no position to make that judgement. I don't know anyone here. In fact, I always give people here the benefit of the doubt that though we may disagree, I believe that they believe as they do out of love for this nation -- a love for America that we all share -- Democrat and republican, Liberal or conservative.

And what really saddens me is that so many people here, rather then show a basic respect for the diversity of opinion that can and should exist in this great country -- they choose instead to demonize, dehumanize, and villify those they disagree with with vicious namecalling and personal attacks. No real dialogue is ever possible, once you've reduced another to a hateful name or characterization. And that goes on quite a bit here. That's why I do my best to attack "positions" not "persons" who I disagree with...in order to keep this dialogue open. There are others here who also seem to try and keep away from personal attacks, and those are the people here who make the site enjoyable.

Bee Swell

Spud challenged youknownothing to come up with just one idea, just one truth that he claims to know and wot does he come up with?

Nothing.
Nada.
Bupkiss.

Diddly divided by squat and multiplied by zero.

Thanks fer proving wot a total waste of bandwidth you are.

Spud already knew, of course, but it's always nice to have you confirm it yourself.

Wott a waste you are.

A confirmed anti-Christian.

Hot Air and Hate is all you'll ever have.

Not. Good. Enough.

Spud pities you.

Be Well.

I said you brought politics to this thread.

Whatsleft, when Benny "welcomed" me back by saying that I had got my ass kicked like the prodigal "sun" -- he wasn't talking about my movie reviews -- he was talking about his opinion on the political discussions I have on here all the time. So like I said, Benny is the person that opened the door to the political deflection with his comment. And I just responded.


Does this mean you believe that it's a good idea to post in as many threads as possible as a means of disrupting the entire site? It sure seems that way.

It means that I read the articles and posts I like and respond on point, and then obviously some people here see me posting on the site and decide to launch a personal attack against me and deflect the thread.

So if you are so concerned with thread deflections where I post, then start a "Don't attack Bowa personally anymore" campaign. But leave me out of it.

Later.

It is because I love this nation and believe in the fundamental principles of America that I believe as I do.

All you are doing is cheerleading for the destruction of this country. The first step to coming out of your state of delusion is to recognize it.

Position: Coming up with myriad reasons to go to war and put friends and family into harm's way that change constantly.

Position: Motivating people out of fear of unknown instead of protecting people from known dangers.

Position: Torture and pre-emption as foreign policy

Position: Calling those who do not support status-quo un-American and Subversive.

Postion: Supporting strong-arm Dictators in the name of freedom and democracy

Position: Deregulating wealthy while pushing more regulations on the less wealthy.

Position: Borrowing money from our largest economic rival while spending that money in a way that garners no return on investment.

Position: record budget deficits instead of balanced budgets

Position: Signing Statements, thus eliminating the need for the legislative branch beyond war funding.

Position: Intruding on citizen's privacy rights while refusing any degree of executive-branch transparency.

Position: Using a dead man to scare up the public when the political heat is on

Position: Sounding like a stuttering fool at the public instead of an accomplished statesman.

Position: Obstruction of both environmental and biological scientific breakthroughs on personal grounds.

Position: Alienating allies abroad and refusing diplomatic relations with enemies.

Position: Contracting security operations abroad without holding them accountable for anything.

Position: Continued contracting with said operatives who cannot account for hundreds of billions of federal money.

Position: Abdication of responsibility during large-scale natural disasters in non-Republican geographic areas

Position: Obsessing over security while either allowing the overwhelming majority of cargo into the nation unchecked or by attempting to outsource such security procedures to foreign companies with relations with our supposed enemies.

....

You are right Bowa....I'm willing to talk about the issues ANYTIME you would like.

Atheists prove God's existence because they maintain so strongly that they can prove that He does not exist.

It's impossible to prove a negative.

How can one prove that Unicorns don't exist?
Or Fairies or little green men from Mars?

It's up to religious folk to prove that God exists not vice versa and religious folks can't.

Simple as that.

God is real in the sense that if you don't at least pretend to believe in Him you can get killed by your fellow man. Most athiests are smart enuff to know that. Historically, denial of God or even challenging the tenets of the church was a one way trip to a shallow grave usually via the torture table.

Fer every one man who is lead to his beliefs in God and any specific religion there are a dozen more who are there due to inheritance.

As a Christian, I wish I had as strong a knowing as atheists do in God. They seem to know who He should be far better then me. While athesists know God so well they can reject his existence.

Did Man make God or did God make Man?

That's the only real question.

Someone once sed and Spud is paraphrase...

"I submit to you that we are all athiests. The only difference between a religious man and me is that I believe in one less god than him. Once he understands why I have rejected every other God he might have a clue as to why I reject his"

Here's wot Spud believes...

This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

~Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama is one smart cookie!

"Be Kind"

-Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

Be Well.

All you are doing is cheerleading for the destruction of this country. The first step to coming out of your state of delusion is to recognize it.

back at you Ray. I believe that Bush's "war on terror" policies here, in Iraq, Afghanistan and around the world has saved the lives of millions of people around the globe by preventing the rise of Islamo-fascism in the same way, in hindsight, the world wish it could have done in the 1930's and stopped the rise of nazism preventing the horror to come in WW2.

History will determine if Bush was right -- but there is nothing I can do or say that will change your mind, nor you, mine. We approach our worldview from a different perspective and we each think we are right -- but that doesn't make either of us any less patriotic or true Americans.

This lecturing will bounce off Bowa like water off a duck's back. He's a window into the mind of a professional politician. He loves the vicarious feeling of power. Watch.

No sooner did I hit the send button when Bowa posted ahead of me to prove my point. Was I right or was I right.

Bowa: quick history lesson.

Islamo-fascism was a term made up by neoconservatives in the gov't and the media.

Nazism was a term made up by the Nazi party themselves.

Islamo-fascists don't call themselves "Islamo-fascists."

Nazis called themselves "Nazis"

This may not resonate with you, but to those that understand how propaganda works, it does greatly.

That's the difference.

I submit to you that we are all athiests. The only difference between a religious man and me is that I believe in one less god than him. Once he understands why I have rejected every other God he might have a clue as to why I reject his"
-Dethspud


-Sam Harris
Letter to a Christian Nation

As a kid my mom used to take me to see well known evangelists who'd rail on about the 'for sure' ending of the world. First it was 1968, then it was 1970, and on and on. First it was the USSR, then China, then ...

RAY - You wuz right

RAY

Just wanted to make sure I wished a wonderful New Year 2008 to you and your family.

Thanks for being my "financial advisor" of sorts throughout the year. *grin*

Happy New Year 2008 to DOC!

Got the grill and blender going? I'm on my way over.

Difference is people may have been estimating that the govt moves indicated a likelihood of Iran attack but no one claimed God told them it was going to happen.

"when Benny "welcomed" me back by saying that I had got my ass kicked like the prodigal "sun" -- he wasn't talking about my movie reviews --"

That's right, Bowa, I wasn't talking about your "movie reviews." I'm not into dog and pony shows, or donkeys.

I was talking about your performance on the DR, where you regularly get your ass handed to you but are so obtuse you don't realize it.

Bowa, you are one of the classic running gags on the DR.

Enjoy!

Mr Faire: Better luck next time!

*Smooch*

Thanks Chris. And may you sail in a sea of calm in the coming year of turbulence.

Chris, we sometimes disagree and you're one of the better and best-intentioned posters on the DR. Ray, I thoroughly enjoy your website. Both of you, good wishes for the new year.

PS: And Lisa, Oohrah, and AU

PPS: There are others, of course.

PPS: And for those of you who kno who you are, fuck off!

BOCAINK:

Position: Coming up with myriad reasons to go to war and put friends and family into harm's way that change constantly.
There was a myriad of reasons to go to war in both Iraq and Afghnaistation. Some more important then others. The mission has changed as conditions on the ground and the poltiical environment in the world has changed.

Position: Motivating people out of fear of unknown instead of protecting people from known dangers.
I disagree -- Terrorism by Islamic extremist factions is a real and present danger.

Position: Torture and pre-emption as foreign policy
Torture has never been a part of any official US "foreign policy" as you suggest and it is not now. That "torture" happens during wartime is a given -- and based on the self-righteous views of many Lefties here, Lincoln, FDR, Sherman, Grant and many of the remaining WW2 veterans would be put on trial as "war criminals" if they had their way.

As for "pre-emption" -- given that we live in a world in which WMD's exist that could render a nation incapable of defending itself after being struck first -- I believe that a "preemptive defense' is a legitmate response to a "urgent" threat. Just ask Israel. Unfortunately, because the US did not find WMD's in Iraq as we expected, America has lost the authority to use this important tactic for at least a generation.

Position: Calling those who do not support status-quo un-American and Subversive.

I don't do that. And I have stated why in a previous post. On the other hand, you seemed to suggest that I was "un-American" when you said, "Your political views are not just different, they are misguided and fueled by a disdain for the fundamental principles of America." Is that what you are doing? And if so, and you find people who call people who believe as you do "Unamerican" then why would you engage in the same kind of hate?

Postion: Supporting strong-arm Dictators in the name of freedom and democracy.

You will have to be more specific. Politics makes strange bedefellows and our entire history is one in which the US has backed and had relationships with less then savory characters at one time or another to promote US policy at the time.

Position: Deregulating wealthy while pushing more regulations on the less wealthy.

I believe in the free-market and capitalism and disagree with the premise of your comment. And based on the "fundamental principles of America" there is far too much regulation and taxing of private enterprise as it is.

Position: Borrowing money from our largest economic rival while spending that money in a way that garners no return on investment.

If you are asking whether the trade deficit with China is problematic. Then I agree with you.

Position: record budget deficits instead of balanced budgets
We are a nation at war, and one that subsidizes the defense of Westernized nations all over the world by providing protection and allowing them to have much smaller militaries then they would if the US wasn't there for them. Obviously it has become a thankless job, and one in which we get very little return on. But I don't see how we relieve ourselves of our commitments which have increased exponetially since WW2, anytime soon.

Position: Signing Statements, thus eliminating the need for the legislative branch beyond war funding.

Again I disagree with your premise. President's have used signing statements throughout our history to clarify their positions on the bills they are signing into law-- they have no "force" by themselves though they can be used (by the judiciary for example) to understand the intent of the President

Position: Intruding on citizen's privacy rights while refusing any degree of executive-branch transparency.

Again I just disagree with your premise. The Executive branch has acted in accordance with the constitutional separation of powers -- and as a wartime President, Bush has far more transparency and less power then many other Presidents in his position. As for the intrusion on citizen's "privacy rights" that unfairly and dishonestly villifies policies and programs which were set up after 9/11 and have helped to prevent another attack on this country. As I have said before, if there was ever any proof that surfaced that Bush was using these programs to spy and intrude on political enemies, then I would be the first to call for impeachment. But even Dianne feinstein, for example, said the NSA wiretapping was an "impressive program"

Position: Using a dead man to scare up the public when the political heat is on.

Not sure who you mean. But in general I find that the left believes that anything Bush does, or anything that happens in the world is done by him s to manipulate the american public.

Position: Sounding like a stuttering fool at the public instead of an accomplished statesman.
His awkward speech aside, Bush has proven to be an accomplished "stateman" and a very smart politician. Just ask the democrats.

Position: Obstruction of both environmental and biological scientific breakthroughs on personal grounds.
I don't know what breakthroughs you are talking about. I do know that Bush was the first president ever to publicly fund stem cell research though. And he never did anything to block private funding of it.

Position: Alienating allies abroad and refusing diplomatic relations with enemies.
I think we may have allienated the "chattering class"....but it seems liek we have very strong relationships with our allies -- and with France and germany it hasn't been as good as it is now for a long time.

Position: Contracting security operations abroad without holding them accountable for anything.
Again, I disagree with the tone of your comment. That the security operations for travel of diplomats, private contractors, etc. falls outside military jurisdiction is structural problem that needs to be addressed. But I think outfits like "blackwater" get a bad rap, given how dangerous their mission is and how few incidents of questinable activity there has been.

Position: Continued contracting with said operatives who cannot account for hundreds of billions of federal money.

I'm in agreement with you on this one. Heads should roll.

Position: Abdication of responsibility during large-scale natural disasters in non-Republican geographic areas

Again I disagree with your premise -- katrina was primarily a failure of the state and local governments -- and Democrats just scapegoated the Bush adminsitration and tried to put it all on them.

Position: Obsessing over security while either allowing the overwhelming majority of cargo into the nation unchecked or by attempting to outsource such security procedures to foreign companies with relations with our supposed enemies.

We haven't been attacked since 9/11, so knock on wood, so far the Bush administration has obsessed over security in al the right places.


You are right Bowa....I'm willing to talk about the issues ANYTIME you would like.

Me too.

later...have to run.

"later...have to run."

Of course you do.

Toodles, pussy.

Doc - And may you too sail in a sea of calm in the coming year of turbulence.

Thank you, Ray. I'm coming off some knee surgery and am hoping to be able to go diving with my son in March. It's a goal. They do help. Keep up your website. It's a boon to some of us.

Mr Faire: Better luck next time!
*Smooch*
Posted by Bennybenedictus


What?

Does the RNC pay you by the word, Bowa? How else to explain your endless bloviating?

PS: And Lisa, Oohrah, and AU
PPS: There are others, of course.
PPS: And for those of you who kno who you are, fuck off!
Posted by Doc_Sarvis


Doc, not that my fragile ego needs this or anything, but in which category do you place Mr Fair?
;0)

How else to explain your endless bloviating?

POSTED BY BILL_OREILLY


Sad & Lonely...

Does the RNC pay you by the word, Bowa? How else to explain your endless bloviating?
Posted by Bill_OReilly


Bill - it looks like Bowa was simply responding to Boca's long list. Wait - Do you think maybe the DNC is paying Boca by the word?

First of all Spud, extinction is proof that the Earth will kill us before we kill it, not the opposite...the sun will still rise and set without coral reefs. It may become unihabitable, but exist nonetheless. We are in essence arguing the same point....and I wouldn't look to a church or a movement to find God. You can find him in the Bible and in a personal relationship pretty easily...I wouldn't bend backward for any religion myself....but my relationship with God is undeniable. I don't agree with most "religious" people, but I feel the Holy Spirit nonetheless.

As far as Bowa:

I love it....He wants to discuss these issues but he has to run.



Put it this way, like the "Nazi" post I was making, you assume that we are fighting a known enemy. (I agree we have enemies, but they are far from "Known"

But I rebut nonetheless:

"Myriad Reasons" Because every 'legitimate' reason either proved to be false, or not a good enough reason to send our troops into combat. To compare