Poll: Obama, Clinton Close in Iowa

Just another reminder that the 2008 Presidential campaign isn't quite over on the cusp of November 2007. The people actually seeing and engaging with the candidates have a totally different impression than the plethora of national polls would have one believe.

Hi TonyR...just wanted to get a post in here before the Corkster.

Now what ya gonna do Corky, flip a coin?

The big news in the Iowa poll is a statistical tie between Hillary Rodham Clinton at 29 percent and Barack Obama at 27 percent. The same wide-sample discount mentioned above applies to these Democratic numbers as well, but the fact is Hillary has nothing like a lock on Iowa. Nonetheless, the national media continue to crown HRC as the nominee - which is not so bad for Obama, because all this Hillary hype now merely cranks the guillotine blade higher and higher into the air should she lose Iowa. That would open the windows of Heaven to another great flood. In this new poll, it looks as if some of Edwards's support is melting off to Obama. I've mentioned this before, but it's worth saying again. If the combined Edwards/Richardson/Biden vote - 32 percent in this poll - declines in the final stretch to, say, 21 percent, where does that lost 11 percent of the caucus vote go? I think it breaks two to one or better to Obama. And if that's correct, this poll approximately would read: HRC 32 percent, Obama 35 percent.

time-blog.com

Any one but Clinton.

Tony you better be F***ing right....!

As mentioned previously, Iowa has never elected a woman to any national office, so they were a tough challenge for her from the git-go.

That she is statistically tied for the lead here with Obama is a good showing on her part and a possible disaster for John Edwards, who is now putting out the kind of "big change" ideas that one might have expected from Obama.

-people actually seeing and engaging with the candidates have a totally different impression

Of course, Iowa is a caucus. The first secret ballots begin in NH, where both of these candidates have been campaigning steadily up close and personal, and there, as in most states, Hil holds a double-digit lead.

Also, there is this:

www.drudge.com

Edwards plans big for presidency

www.concordmonitor.com

Perhaps you should refer to this thread and take heed Corky. Hillary's leads today are about as important as telling everyone you know what the weather is going to be like on Election Day 2008. You don't know diddly but for regurgitating what the MSM tells you is important while the voters feel exactly the opposite.

www.drudge.com

If Obama wants to tackle Clinton, he should do it -- boldly, publicly and without looking back. Let him say that the United States ought not have dynastic leadership with Bushes and Clintons trading the presidency back and forth. Let him spell out how he is different not just from Hillary Clinton and George Bush but also from Bill Clinton and George Herbert Walker Bush. Obama can, and should, run as the first candidate of the 21st century. It's a good message; arguably the only one that will genuinely distinguish him from Clinton and Clintonism.

www.thenation.com

I'd prefer Bill Richardson or Al Gore, or even John Edwards in a pinch, but if it has to be Obama, well then I say Anyone-But-Hillarious!

Regardless of the polling data, I suspect the real caucus race in Iowa is between Obama and Edwards. If Obama wins Iowa, he'll soon knock Edwards out of the race, and all of Edwards people will go to Obama. If Edwards wins Iowa, it may muddle the race and prevent the emergence of a solid opposition candidacy in the path of Hillary's degenerate shamble towards the nomination. So while I prefer Edwards (Hell, I'd probably vote for Gravel, if the truth be told), it'd probably be best if Obama won the Iowa caucus, so as to maximize the chance that someone other than Hillarious will be the Democratic nominee.

The vast media conspiracy against Obama, eh, TR?

Poor baby.

I live in a split (Democratic, liberal, Christian) household. My wife sees Hillary through a victim prism, a fearless woman who fights back. I keep my mouth shut, mostly, but my fingers crossed for Obama and Iowa.

And it's not visceral for me; I'm just so tired of Hillary. I'm appalled at the dynasty aspect, of course, but more repulsed by this relentless boomerization. Obama's appeal is also generational, but it's MY generation: late boomers, Generation Jones, whatever, born in the late 50s and early 60s, with no Vietnam to haunt us, no campus battles to romanticize, no dead Presidents to mourn. Even Obama's Hollywood liberal contemporaries are the anti-Streisands ( e.g., Clooney, Penn, Robbins), articulate and apparently willing to stay out of the way if necessary. I can't see them crowding into an Obama Oval Office.

Aside from some of the exotic aspects of his life, Obama is someone I recognize. The thoughtful journey toward faith, the downplaying of race as an issue, the honesty and lack of artifice about his drug use -- I know this guy, I went to college with him, I talk with him after church. He shares a party with Hillary but little else, as far as I'm concerned, and about time.

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com

The vast media conspiracy against Obama, eh, TR?

Poor baby.

Sorry Corky, Hillary isn't the only victim anymore. And just think, you were the one forwarding the agenda to discredit him yourself. Guess that makes you what now?

Obama is the victim of Obama.

www.huffingtonpost.com

www.drudge.com

Check out the comments on Ariana's piece..... er, her article.

I wonder who in the media conspiracy whispered in Obama's ear and victimized him into gay bashing for votes?

"This hasn't been a great moment for Obama and his campaign. If you missed any of this, Pam writes:

In another attempt to connect with people of faith in South Carolina, presidential hopeful Barack Obama has decided to reach out by going on a concert tour with gospel artists, including known homophobe and recloseted homosexual Donnie McClurkin.

It gets worse from there: John Aravosis:

Surprise, surprise, surprise. Obama's anti-gay religious right activist used the opportunity Obama gave him last night to preach his hate to thousands of African-Americans. That's just great. And the white preacher who Obama picked to help explain to the audience that gays aren't minions of Satan? CNN reports that he said nothing at all - just a short little prayer, then he left.

As for Obama, he did a taped introduction in which he praised McClurkin, the religious right activist, as one of his favorites. That's nice, because the way to help combat homophobia in the black community is to make sure the gay-basher is first endorsed by someone as high-ranking as Obama, who then chooses to say nothing about the gay-bashing.

So, in the end, Obama let his "best" and "favorite" artist slam gays to thousands of African-Americans, in his name, and neither he nor his hand-chosen white gay preacher said anything in response. Class act, that Obama campaign. For them, creating a "dialogue" means the gay-basher gets to spread his bigotry to thousands while the candidate and the token gay STFU.

And then:

Obama's campaign now says that McClurkin only wants to cure the unhappy gays. (The rest of us are, I guess, fine to continue trying to kill America's children.)

Even if he didn't realize what McClurkin's views were and that's quite possible --he should have done something to take care of the problem. Pam has more ... "

www.crooksandliars.com

Obama is the victim of Obama.

Only in your hypocritical, narrow-minded world:

Obama's New Ad Could Help Kill Social Security

Report: Obama Spurns Brad Pitt's Offer To Help Campaign

Obama: Navel-Gazer-in-Chief

Obama: Not So Big On Teh Gay

Obama campaign spokesman blasts gays at Gospel concert; white preacher and Obama say nothing

I guess the truth doesn't matter to those like yourself who would rather traffic in smears:

Advocate: I know you're in a difficult position here trying to balance these two constituencies -- but by keeping McClurkin on the tour, didn't you essentially choose your Christian constituency over your gay constituency?

Obama: No, I profoundly disagree with that. This is not a situation where I have backed off my positions one iota. You're talking to somebody who talked about gay Americans in his convention speech in 2004, who talked about them in his announcement speech for the president of the United States, who talks about gay Americans almost constantly in his stump speeches. If there's somebody out there who's been more consistent in including LGBT Americans in his or her vision of what America should be, then I would be interested in knowing who that person is.

One of the things that always comes up in presidential campaigns is, if you've got multiple supporters all over the place, should the candidate then be held responsible for the every single view of every one of his supporters? And obviously that's not possible. And if I start playing that game, then it will be very difficult for me to do what I think I can do best, which is bring the country together.
advocate.com

Spoken like a true statesman, not a robotic Stepford candidate who calculates every word that comes out of her mouth. And by the way, why is Hillary giving back more campaign money than all the other candidates combined times 3?

Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign has returned nearly $1.3 million to hundreds of donors since July 1, including more than $800,000 tied to disgraced one-time fugitive Norman Hsu. The total figure is more than triple the returned donations for the rest of the Democratic field combined.
washingtontimes.com

lmao!

I get that you don't like it when 2 play at your game.

I never posted an article about Obama until you formed your right-wing echo chamber on Hil.

But, as is obvious to all but the most infatuated Obamites, it is the candidate himself that is responsible for his campaign, not his opponent or the media.

Playing him as a victim is laughable.

Playing him as a victim is laughable.

Sort of like the most powerful political machine in America doing the same thing? Yes, it is laughable that Hillary continues to lash out at her detractors instead of answering simple questions on why she does what she does. But thats what arrogance and limited ethics does to someone.

Who's always participates in Congressional prayer sessions, usually led by the most homophobic Republicans on the Hill? Oh, that would be HILLARY CLINTON! Hypocrite!

Praying.

What a terrible thing for a person to do.

She should be shot.

Praying.

What a terrible thing for a person to do.

Yeah, especially when the "prayers" are for the spiritual redemption of those unfortunate members of the GLBT community. I'm sure they welcome the concern of religionists that continue to discriminate against their civil rights.

-when the "prayers" are for the spiritual redemption of those unfortunate members of the GLBT

Your link please to prove that that is what those Senate prayers entail?

If this is the best you can do to combat Obama's gay bashing tour..... it ain't near enuff.

Says the smear-mongerer supreme! LMAO!!!!!

Where'd that title come from Corky, out your ass? Smells like it!

Always being the first to resort to the ad hominem instead of retorting the point has become a trademark with you, TR.

Must be because your lies are so hard to defend, eh?

Your link please to prove that that is what those Senate prayers entail?

PS

Since you made up that title..... keep your hands off my ass!

And from the LA Times:

Polls don't reflect Obama's star power

Considering the competition, said David Axelrod, Obama's chief strategist, Obama is doing just fine in Iowa.

"We are in a dead-even race with the greatest political brand name and political machine in the Democratic Party," he said, referring to Clinton. "And the reason for that is that people have gotten a chance to know him and see him on television and in person."

Furthermore, Axelrod said: "We don't have the resources or the candidate time to run a race to change national poll numbers, nor do I think we have to. This is a sequential contest, and we're spending time where the process begins."

www.latimes.com

Your link please to prove that that is what those Senate prayers entail?

Just as soon as you provide one listing facts on when Obama personally bashed gays. Do you have that much contempt for reaching out to all members of society, or just those you can extract money from regardless if they're legal or illegal to begin with?

Whether Barack Obama (D) ultimately becomes President of the United States, the senator from Illinois has already made history in Charlottesville. At his Monday night rally at the Charlottesville Pavilion, he pushed attendance at that two-year-old venue to beyond its capacity. "We estimate it was a total of just over 5,000 people," says Pavilion manager Kirby Hutto. "That's way beyond anything we've ever done. I'm surprised we could fit everyone in here."

Before presidential hopeful ever spoke a word, former state senator Tom Michie said that in all his years in Charlottesville politics, he can only recall one instance of political fervor equal to this one. "The last time I can remember something like this was in 1960, Lyndon Johnson made a whistle stop at the train station and we had a mob this big," he says.

For all the anticipation buzzing through the attendees, and the more than $300,000 they had plunked down to see the Chicagoan, Obama did not disappoint. After a $2,300-per-person pre-rally event at downtown sushi restaurant Ten, and an introduction from Gov. Tim Kaine, he took the stage to U2's "City of Blinding Lights." For 50 minutes, the audience listened in rapt attention, staying pindrop quiet until exploding in tempestuous applause on cue.

thinkonthesethings.wordpress.c
om

Unfortunately, the demise of Obama's campaign has been prematurely reported. Anyone thinking that his candidacy still doesn't have great life in it just aren't paying attention to real people instead of media-driven poll data.

Forgive them Tony, they are weak little lemmings, nothing more, nothing less.

Hillary's talking about abandoning the politics of hope' again.

Rather than continue to be used a sheepish medium for the Clinton campaign talking points, the mainstream media should ask her what the heck does she mean by the politics of hope'? Does she believe in the politics of hope' herself?

She throws it back to Obama so frequently as if she's saying "I'm sorry you don't believe in the tooth fairy any more or in Santa Claus any more." Is she saying that it is an impossible goal for politics and so we should just go ahead and be nasty? Is she saying that she's the one aligned with the politics of hope and Obama isn't? That one would be a hard sell given her being on record as calling him "naive" and "frankly irresponsible." What is she saying???

Obama has already explained that for him, politics of hope' means he won't get into personal attacks but will still draw contrasts on policy/leadership differences. However, what exactly does Clinton mean when she keeps talking about abandoning the politics of hope'?

Do your jobs, mainstream media. Ask the logical questions.

thinkonthesethings.wordpress.c
om

It's interesting that Hillary's campaign has issued a preemtive attack, prior to tonight's debate. If you wonder where Corky get's this crap from, look no farther than:

www.politico.com

-Just as soon as you provide one listing facts on when Obama personally bashed gays.

I never said that he did.

But you stated that:

"the "prayers" are for the spiritual redemption of those unfortunate members of the GLBT"

Link, please.

Already seen it W, but thanks for the heads up. I'd love to see Hillary asked the above questions tonight, wouldn't you? I don't think she'd be prepared for it. Her campaign is likely too arrogant to believe someone might question their own corruption of Obama's message.

"Clinton's campaign links to a YouTube of Obama at the Democratic National Committee winter meeting last February, saying:

"Over the next year of a primary and ... the next two years leading to the election of the next president, the campaigns shouldn't be about making each other look bad. ... [O]ur rivals won't be one another. ... We are tired of a politics of division. We are tired of politics of fear. We want a politics of hope. We want a politics that unifies this country."

Wow!

Too bad TR doesn't subscribe to Obama's (former?) position of "campaigns shouldn't be about making each other look bad.".

I never said that he did.

Yes you did, over and over again through the use of "Obama's gay-bashing tour". Can't you at least be honest about what words truly mean? 's means possession Corky and all your disembling won't change grammatical reality.

And since when haven't religionists prayed for the redemption of everyone that doesn't agree with their version of faith? Its what they live for and what their faith demands of them.

Too bad TR doesn't subscribe to Obama's (former?) position of "campaigns shouldn't be about making each other look bad.".

You just can't stomach that the first shot was fired by Hillary and her attack dogs, can you?

"She throws it back to Obama so frequently as if she's saying "I'm sorry you don't believe in the tooth fairy any more or in Santa Claus any more." Is she saying that it is an impossible goal for politics and so we should just go ahead and be nasty? Is she saying that she's the one aligned with the politics of hope and Obama isn't? That one would be a hard sell given her being on record as calling him "naive" and "frankly irresponsible." What is she saying???

Obama has already explained that for him, politics of hope' means he won't get into personal attacks but will still draw contrasts on policy/leadership differences. However, what exactly does Clinton mean when she keeps talking about abandoning the politics of hope'?"

So, Obama leaves the personal attacks to the likes of you, eh?

-the use of "Obama's gay-bashing tour". Can't you at least be honest about what words truly mean?

You are projecting again.

And creating strawmen again.

I and the articles I posted claim that he is cynically using a gay basher to gin up certain prejudiced voters, not that he is homophobic himself.

Particularly cynical coming from a black candidate, as many people have noted.

You are projecting again.

No, you're dissembling as usual. Stop using Obama's name as indicative of him being on tour. Words mean what they mean. The only strawman is your own refusal to acknowledge that language is defined by grammatical usage, not by your personal opinion on the matter.

You are truly juvenile in trying to blame others for your own insolence.

- insolence

Respect has to be earned.

Sorry if you think me "uppity".

Obama's campaign manager is threatening to quit if Obama doesn't stop grabbing his ass.

and if Obama won't stop calling him "Slappy".

Obama was overheard saying that if he could be anyone else in life, it would be Michael Jackson.

Obama's staff complains that he's a frequent 'crop duster'.

Obama driver complains about all of the BBQ sauce.

Obama can never have enough Kool's.

Obama driver complains about all of the BBQ sauce.......and watermelon seeds.

You bitches!

You know Tony is gonna blame this on me.

You know Tony is gonna blame this on me.

Well, I could start cracking on Hillary if you'd like.

Obama's tour bus has a special cooler stocked with cherry cola.

Obama's tour bus has a special cooler stocked with cherry cola........and Hennesy.

Hillary has a special assistant whose sole purpose is scouring local markets for Tab.

Hillary will berate her staff if her Joan Baez CD's aren't correctly placed in their case.

Hillary will not leave the hotel without a clean pair of knee high compression stockings.

-scouring local markets for Tab

Tab Hunter?

Tab has other plans......

examinedlife.typepad.com

I know, I know. Next time I download from your MyPlace files I should ask first. Sheeesh!

Hillary called one of her male staffers a 'chauvenist pig' when he tried to hold open a door for her.

Hillary was asking one of her staffers for some fashion advice.

Her staffer suggested that Hillary should consider wearing a skirt.

Hillary whipped her coffee mug at the poor woman upon hearing that suggestion.

Hillary hasn't shaved her armpits since 1968.

At the behest of her campaign manager (Bill) Hillary has purchased her first bra since 1971. She'll only wear it during the summer when she is forced to remove her waist coat.

When Chelsea was 3 Hillary called her a 'stupid bitch' when she skipped the letter "H" when reciting her alphabet.

grabbing his ass.
Slappy
uppity
Kool's.
watermelon seeds
BBQ sauce
obama likes overweight bleach blondes

Are you fuckers all drunk or sommat this morning?

Wot next? Big Black Dick jokes?

Ms Sarah once described the DR as a "kindergarten".
At the time Spud thought she was insulting the intelligence of the posters here but now it looks like she was insulting the pre-school kids.

Sheesh!

Obama was wrong to hire a re-closeted gay homophobe gospel singer for his deep southern campaigning.

Hillary is a corporately co-opted global elitist who's Neo-liberal agenda differs from BushCo's more in style than in substance.

Take the pronouncement of the professional talking heads and pundits and pollsters on the issue with a large grain of salt as they are more in the business of manufacturing opinions than in realistically appraising them.

Obama, Kucinich, Edwards and Ron Paul are the only real candidates in this race.

A vote fer any other candidate is a vote fer a gnatzi fuckover.

A vote fer AmeriKKKa.

An act of political suicide.

Be Well.

Hillary hasn't shaved her armpits since 1968......which, coincidentally, was the last time she used deodorant.

Hillary never uses dental floss.

Hillary programmed her laptop to label any web-pictures of dead US soldiers as pornography.

"Hillary never uses dental floss.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-10-30 02:20 PM"

What? She just uses your little pecker to clean between her teeth?

She just uses your little pecker to clean between her teeth?

No, she uses the string from your wife's discarded tampons.

Hillary was overheard as saying that she thinks penises are ugly.

"No, she uses the string from your wife's discarded tampons.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-10-30 02:31 PM"

From the firecrackers? Really?

"Hillary was overheard as saying that she thinks penises are ugly.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-10-30 02:32 PM"

Except JeffJ's "tiny, little cute one," that is.

Hillary has said she is considering Gloria Steinem for a cabinet post.

The firecracker?

I never heard that one.

'tis funny.

Hey everybody, this thread is mentioned and linked on the front page of Real Politics.com. I'm sure the new viewers will find much relevance in Jeff's ongoing comments...NOT!

Correction: Real Clear Politics.com

Tony, you must be very happy with the debate yesterday.

I actually thought Obama won. But I did a qucik search this morning an dit seems most of the Democratic bloggerss and media thought Edwards won.

No matter. Hillary lost. She's been bloodied.

Bowa...

See "Clinton Bombs in Debate" thread on the backpage.

Tony,

I deserve to be knighted, or annointed into Sainthood after articulating such eloquence yesterday.

I deserve to be knighted,

Thank you so much for putting this into my head:

Pickering: Tonight, old man, you did it!
You did it! You did it!
You said that you would do it,
And indeed you did.
I thought that you would rue it;
I doubted you'd do it.
But now I must admit it
That succeed you did.
You should get a medal
Or be even made a knight.

Higgins: It was nothing. Really nothing.

Pickering: All alone you hurdled
Ev'ry obstacle in sight.

Higgins: Now, wait! Now, wait!
Give credit where it's due.
A lot of the glory goes to you.

Pickering: But you're the one who did it,
Who did it, who did it!
As sturdy as Gibraltar,
Not a second did you falter.
There's no doubt about it,
You did it!

For the rest of the day (at least).

Hawkeyes....what do they know?