"He[Bush] said of his father, He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice[about Iraq]. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.' And then he said, There's a higher Father that I appeal to.'""

Bob Woodward - "Plan of Attack"

Romney's not getting elected. No need to even sweat this.

However, if he does, we can assume the same level of cronyism that we've seen for the past 7 years. That means, his Mormon buddies will have his ear.

But Rudy will always listen to dress designer Tara Jumon.

You know, because he once wore a dress as a gag, and that's always funny forever. Get it? Do you? It's all I got you know. Now laugh or something. Please. I'm desperate for affirmation.

-Northguy

LDS members are constantly being told what to do. They have a convention twice a year that is designed for just that purpose.

Romney does and will be listening to the 12 apostoles(sp) and the quarm of the 70.

Oh to be a God. That is their dream.

Bush doesn't take orders from his Church either; he takes orders from God.

LDS members are constantly being told what to do. They have a convention twice a year that is designed for just that purpose.

Romney does and will be listening to the 12 apostoles(sp) and the quarm of the 70.

Oh to be a God. That is their dream.

Posted by _2112

Are you LDS? If not then I suggest you try examining the religion before you start bashing it.

It's Quorum of the 70's and they don't advise anyone. My dad was a 70, so I should know.

As for the convention you're talking about it's called General Conference. I haven't watched it in years, but my mother does. From what I know about it, it's more about the spiritual world than the world here.

I am not LDS anymore, but my family is.

As for Romney, I'm not going to vote for him. I don't think he'd make a great president. I think it would be more of the same, just in words we could comprehend.

More of the same:

Hillary
Guiliani
Thompson
Romney

We need a 3rd party now! How about a McCain-Obama run. McCain-Biden. Obama-Powell, the black attack.

Dragonlady.

I have lived among the mormons my whole life and know TONS about their religion. I have examined it quite extensively.

I know all about the Conference and what it is DESIGNED to do. I also know that when any of the so called 'elders' speak much attention is paid by their flock.
---
God Physically came down from heaven and had intercourse with Mary, thus fathering Jesus.

One can become a God over his own world if he lead the correct life.

Try googiling Planet Kolob if you really want it to get strange.

Please don't defend moronism to me, there is no chance in hell you could change my perseption of the cult.

"No president could possibly take orders or even input from religious leaders telling him what to do,"

That Romney has aparently been in a coma for the last 6 years is reason enough not to vote for him.


"My church wouldn't endeavor to tell me what to do on an issue, and I wouldn't listen to them on an issue that related to our nation."

Well now he goes to the complete opposite side, and tells a bald faced lie. His church is not going to cease addressing the government, and he's not going to stop listening to the people. (well he might, Bush did)

The issue isn't not listening to his church, it's not taking orders. Romney seems to be falsely equating the two.
Mormons are American citizens. They are free to tell the President what to do, and he should listen to them, and should endevour to address their grevances.
But he should then do what is in the best interests of America as a whole. If that happens to also be what is best for the Mormon church, so much the better.

Romney screwed the pooch on this answer, across the board.

Romney takes his direction from God above, it isn't his fault that God keeps changing his mind about things.

...yet he got "permission" to accept abortion during the Massachusset's Governors race.

it was Mormon money which surrepticiously killed the equal rights amendment. They are politically active group which strives for acceptance from other Christian denominations while milking our system tax free for all its worth.

2112,

I have lived among the mormons my whole life and know TONS about their religion. I have examined it quite extensively.

Then if you know TONS about it, you would use the terms that they use. Sorry, I was raised in it.
I probably know more dirty secrets about the LDS church than you'll ever know. I also know some of the good things about it.

You are trying to blame all LDS people for the things only some of them do. Many of the things you ascribe to LDS would happen no matter which religion they belong to.

Let me give you an example:

My aunt who is Pentacostal told my mother who is LDS that she needed to come back to the religion of her childhood. My mother thinks that I will come back to the LDS church. Fat chance of either one of them happening.

Here's another example:

Most members of the LDS church give 10% tithe to the church. It's not any different than the thousands that send money to the televangelist on tv because that will save them. Or put money into the plate that's passed at Sunday.

And of course there has never been a preacher that exhorted his flock to vote for a president??? Isn't that how we got the president we now have, the so called moral majority?? "Vote for values rather than your pocketbook". "Look I'm a christian I listen to GOD". Give me a break.

The LDS Church is no better or worse than any other religion. They all have their skeletons in the closet.

"No president could possibly take orders or even input from religious leaders telling him what to do,"

Better not tell Dubya.


And vernon, I'm sorry my "Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll" bother you. I realise you get upset every time you see Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll. In the future I will only post Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll in posts where Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll fit. In posts where Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll is less applicable, I will limit Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll comments. That way, Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll will be less annoying to you and when you see Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll you will know it is a fitting comment regarding either Rudy is a transvestite or Craig a toilet troll.
I hope this will reduce the annoyance factor of Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll and make Rudy is a transvestite and Craig a toilet troll a more enjoyable post.
btw, for the record Rudy IS a transvestite and Craig IS a toilet troll

FF for NG3

I'll agree with you on it (mormon) not being better or worse than other religions as they all are flawed in varying degrees.

I don't use the correct 'terms' of the religon on purpose Dragonlady. It's fun to do it when you know you are around momos, get some pretty funny looks.

As far as dirty secrets I have pretty much heard them all, Mountain Meadows Massacre being one of the worst. They way blacks were dealt with was also quite a laughable event. Oh, not to forget the whole having to give up polygamy in order to even become a state. That was a duesy!


As far as giving money to an organized religion I thinks its a sham.

God don't need my money!

I still have a particulary ill view on most momos as I have lived among them my whole life and know their unethical business tactis first hand and I know how two faced they can be. Not all, but most.

Mormonism is different. It is a culture by its self. Its position on most matters is a little to the right of center, actually. On abortion, it is OK if it is for the health of the mother or if the fetus is in some way damaged (anencephaly, for example).

The Church is scrupulous in its observance of political neutrality.

As for gay marriage, the church is very conservative, sexually. This is a result of the great emphasis on the eternal family connection. The children born in this life are the family in the next, for eternity. Therefore the powers of procreation are sacrosanct within the religion. These powers are the nascent powers of God.

Male and female, only together, can exercise this vital function in an eternal relationship. Sexual fidelity is an eternal necessity.

These are not bad values. Romney would be guided by them, as he has been guided in the past. No one, I am quite sure, would tell him what to do, as some Catholic politicians have been told by their church, or face excommunication. (If he cheated on his wife, he is definitely out, however. No exceptions.)

Being a fairly liberal Democrat I could not possibly vote for a man who is for the war and against social responsibility, however.

"You know, because he once wore a dress as a gag,

Posted by vernon at 2007-10-22 08:50 AM"

Once Vernon? I think those "jokes" wouldn't get so much mileage if it weren't for that pronounced lisp and his gay roomates. I think he just go ahead and come out of the closet. People would rally around an honest politician.

It all depends which cult you belong to. It doesn't matter much whether your marching orders are from Rome or Salt Lake City if your main issue in life is enhancing fetal rights. Luckily my "faith" (I hate that word; it means believing that which your common sense tells you cannot possibly be true) encourages my using my brain. herm

Donnerboy,

You're an idiot.

You have no idea how much money the church has, how much power it could wield if it wanted to. The fact that they don't use their money and power to push him to the position speaks volumes.

You also have no understanding of the history of the church and what those poor Mormons had to go through in the early days. They were not granted the freedom of religion in the mid to late 1800's like other Americans. They left the country and moved to Mexico to have religious freedom. How sad is that? We couldn't even provide our own people with simple constitutional rights we would flip over today.

One thing is for sure, if they wanted to let the power of the church and it's 5 million members here in the US run unchecked, you would be right to be scared. But don't be, they are not like that.

I remember a song when I was little.

Liar liar pants on fire.

kind of cutesy and sticks in my mind about now...

Romney: I Won't Take Orders from Church


"The hell you won't!"

- Gordon B. Hinckley

M's are just an offshoot of the neocons..

Theat is why they allowed him on the ballot. same team same as shrub and the skull bones guys, different branch

in their rituals they use the exact same hand sings and cutting throat signs and everything, identical with massons... skull bones, same leaders different branches.

look it up video google com search mormon mason etc...

so are the rhhoades scholars, different branch

ever though about it?

Shrub, clit, shrub, clit

now how about that?
isnt that weird?

no, it is planned.
on video google com

The groups with massive amounts of money are all part and under the same final group, or they would not have been allowed to accumulate that much. Anything over a few million is immediately flagged by the big enlightened sucking monster.
The M's don't have a pittance compared to the enlightened sucking monster.
Estimated weatlth of this monster is 835 TRILLION dollars.
They could buy out the m's a million times.
M's are just a small branch that appeals to the more passive gullible type of passive sheep. hey money is money and whatever they can invent to bring in a few more billion is ok by them, whatever it takes.

Give us a helping had with a little proofreading Camel. ;^)

By the way, Joseph Smith WAS a Mason. Could explain the numerous similarities between that and the religion he invented.

"Give us a helping had"

*hand

Crap, I self-retorted.

"I will now say, not only to our delegate to Congress, but to the Elders who leave the body of the Church, that he thought that all the cats and kittens were let out of the bag when brother Pratt went back last fall, and published the Revelation concerning the plurality of wives: it was thought there was no other cat to let out. But allow me to tell you, Elders of Israel, and delegates to Congress, you may expect an eternity of cats that have not yet escaped from the bag".

Romney: I Won't Take Orders from Church

One of their devout worshippers, Mitt Romney kneels at the altar of the Church of the Most Holy Bilderbergers.

I have an intimate knowledge of the workings of the church as it has reached out and touched my life even here in California"

Posted by Donnerboy

Intimate knowledge, eh? Let me guess, a couple of 19 year olds knocked on your door and you're counting that as "reaching out and touching your life"... Really, how can a church you don't associate yourself with "touch your life" to the extent you're implying?

The same alarmists and bigots like you came out fifty years ago when JFK was running for president. And how many Vatican decrees came from him? I'm guessing the same amount that would come from Romney if he's elected. Believe it or not, that would be even less religious decrees than have come from the current administration! But I don't hear you criticizing Bush's faith - maybe your preacher hasn't told you what to say yet.

Anyways, what policies of the LDS Church would Romney place into policy that the Republican Party isn't already trying to do? Same sex marriage? it's already been tried to be banned by republicans. Abortion? Same thing. Many of the policies of the LDS Church are those of the republicans, and some are even more...liberal... than those of the republican party. Unless Romney is planning on forced conversions, I don't think we would have too much to worry about if he is elected.

By the way, your "Under the Banner of Heaven" book is full of lies and half truths. The author relates deeds of people who have been either excommunicated or never Mormon and then says these actions show that there is a root problem of Mormonism. How retarded is that? That's like saying Protestants did something wrong and so the Catholic Church is bad. But I guess sheep like you follow exactly what the book says and say "Mormons baaaaaaaaad, mormons baaaaaaad." Good sheep.

SanAntonio, a more correct version would be "The Heck you won't!"... :)

One thing is for sure, if they wanted to let the power of the church and it's 5 million members here in the US run unchecked, you would be right to be scared. But don't be, they are not like that.

Posted by triggerman6 at 2007-10-22 03:52 PM

Really? Then why aren't the police down in Arizona arresting all those that are practicing Polygamy illegally right now? Why isn't the Federal Government pursuing fraud charges against the entire town of Colorado city as they lay claim to millions of your tax dollars fraudulently? It has to do with the power of the LDS Church.

The reason the Church can't directly fund the campaign of Mitt Romney is because that is illegal and would raise too many flags and sink him immediately.

The early Mormons were not a peaceful persecuted peoples. They were a radical and potentially violent cult. On Sept. 11, 1857, in Utah Territory, Mormons slaughtered more than 120 California-bound settlers from Arkansas. See the movie September Dawn which Mitt Romney and Church Leaders will not comment on even today.

As for the bartimus post at 2007-10-22 06:10 PM...what can say but how wrong can you be? The book is NOT based on LIES (are you a MORMON?) Is is a true story and I am sorry but the author does not apply ALL lessons learned in this TRUE STORY to ALL Mormons. There are books that are better but it is a good read and covers all the bases. He is very up front about the differences in the the Fundamentalists and the LDS church. Have you even read the book? Kindly point out the page that contains the lies and half-truths please...otherwise YOU are lying.

But, the fact, is that Fundamentalist Mormonism is the foundation of LDS church and any rules that have changed have been done so only to allow this Cult to become more acceptable to average Americans (like you. I believe as I am questioning the legitimacy of this particular religion and its hidden agendas that would negate any possibility of my being a "sheep".

Best look in the mirror if you wanna see a sheep... you are trying to find a way to rationalize and accept this Church at face value. How could you possibly do this knowing the history of Mormonism?

It behooves you to look at what the Fundamentalists are doing and what they believe in. The true believers of the LDS actually admire the Fundamentalists for sticking to their guns as it were. (They are also END OF WORLD believers too) and as I have said before Armageddon is just not a good foreign policy.

As for whether or not I have "intimate knowledge" and I know anything about the history of this church...I am not a historian but I know more than I want to about the Brotherhood.

And finally do you really believe there is such a thing as Religious Freedom today? Really? So if I founded a church that conflicts with Christian belief I wouldn't have hard go it?

How naive you are!

have hard go it? = hard go of it?

Really, how can a church you don't associate yourself with "touch your life" to the extent you're implying?

It is a stupid question ... The Christian Church can easily affect those who don't believe in it (GAYS?) so why can't the LDS affect those that have no association with the Church and do not believe?

But I will kindly answer in the interest of Truth.

I have had direct business dealings with corporate businesses and government offices in Salt Lake City. These businesses and even some Government Agencies were controlled by the Brotherhood. Novell Corp was one of them. The Government Agency that was at one time controlled by the Brethren was The Western Region Headquarters of the National Weather Service that is located in Salt Lake City (it's control has since weakened and it's members purged from power but are still present at some levels). I cannot go into further details other than to say that until recently criminal acts that were committed by members of the Church went unpunished for years as the individuals were protected by the Church and those that tried to oppose actions of the Church were blackballed and their careers derailed.

Donner you are retarded.
I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS for all my life and very little of you have said is true.
The history of the church was odd in some ways but for God to restore His gospel of SPIRITUAL growth to a PHYSICAL world I would sure hope it seemed wierd to the worldly. It will never make since to anyone who lacks or rejects spiritual understanding. The gospel is restored and is living but will never be discovered by the spiritually dead.

Why isn't the Federal Government pursuing fraud charges against the entire town of Colorado city as they lay claim to millions of your tax dollars fraudulently?

Posted by Donnerboy

Uh, do you know anything about the recent history of that area? What happened last time the gov't tried to enforce the law in Colorado City? Hundreds of kids were placed into the gov't welfare program that were otherwise leading a "normal" childhood (despite allegations of abuse, which are true, only a small % of kids in these communities are abused. YEs, some were rightfully taken, but most weren't) Taking the kids away from nonabusive homes to put their parents in jail strained the system to the breaking point. It's the same reasons why the federal gov't doesn't deport all illegals en masse - the system just can't handle the strain and it's cheaper to keep 'em on the dole. Do I like the fact that there are polygamists in AZ abusing the system? Heck no. Would I like to see it ended? You betcha, but in this case there really is no credible solution. ("Arrest them all" just doesn't seem to work) It ain't the LDS Church flexing its muscles, it a problem with the government not willing to get involved.

Re: Donnerboy's post about getting screwed in some business deal (you didn't actually say that but I'm assuming that's what happened) I think that really sucks, whatever happened. BUT, what you don't seem to understand is that the actions of a few individuals (or even several individuals) doesn't reflect the values of a whole group. I'm also not sure if I believe the claims of some hidden cabal of LDS Church leaders secretly contolling a portion of the National Weather Service, sounds too Buffalo Bobbish to me...

You keep bringing up history. So, let's look at the LDS Church over the past 150 yrs - maybe in a less biased way. We'll even do the negatives first
CONS = polygamy, treatment of blacks (although to be fair, mormons did allow blacks to be baptized, plus you'd have to hate most other religions at this time as well), Mountains Meadow Massacre (which IS acknowledged by the church leaders, there's an interesting article written by one of the leaders just a few months ago on the whole unfortunate and evil affair)

OK, now look at the PROS - Conduit for millions of people to feel spiritual enlightenment, excellent life training program for young men, service to millions of people around the world (did you ever consider how much they did for the Tsunami victims, Katrina victims, and millions of other victims??), largest womens organization in the world, most efficient welfare program in the world (even the gov't wants to model itself after the LDS Church), etc. etc. etc.

Wow, to me it looks like the PROS win. The LDS Church has admittedly done some not so good things in the past. But they do a heck of a lot of good today and I think you completely disregard that in your posts.

So when you suggest that the LDS Church is this evil twisted thing, you're only looking at one side of the picture, and a very small side at that. Whether personal experiences or anything else cloud your view, just remember that not everything about the mormons are bad.

One question - if you have a co-worker/friend/whatever and you find they're mormon, does your opinion automatically change when you learn this info? Cuz if it does, that's called being biased. And I believe, based on your totally unobjective posts, you are completely biased.

Most politicians pretend to believe in God and act as if they have great Faith. And then they all do whatever is most politically expedient once they get into office. Whether Romney claims to be a Believer or not, who cares. We all know in the final analysis that like any other politician he is full of shit when it comes to religion.

Romney: I Won't Take Orders from Church

Romney had his fingers crossed behind his back

Guy gets a knock on the door. It's a couple of Jehovah Witnesses. Being a hot day he invites them in, gets them a soft drink and offers them a seat on the couch.

He says, "OK, boys. Whadda ya wanna talk about?"

One Jehovah Witness looks at the other and says, "We don't know. We've never gotten this far before".

And I believe, based on your totally unobjective posts, you are completely biased.

Posted by bartimus at 2007-10-23 01:06 AM |

ummm it is true! I am biased against all nonsensical Religious Dogma...especially when it comes to Religious Nuts running my country. I would feel the same way if a Priest or a Bishop or a Scientologist or were running for President.

Re: your bartimus at 2007-10-23 01:06 AM post.

I work for the government so it was not about me losing a business deal. The Government wasted millions staying on the Novell operating system so that the Brethren could make more money and cost the taxpayer untold millions in fraud waste and abuse. I am also intimately aware of the power of the Brethren to influence personnel decisions as I mentioned before. They also control their members by threatening to remove them from the Church or demoting them or condemning them for questioning the "faith".

You are either in denial or very naive about the evils done by this Church and that are still being done today in the name of this so called church.

The situation in Colorado City is much more complex than you let on. Even if the people wanted to escape they cannot. Until recently even the police were in on the scheme (and probably still are if they can get away with it). The town is so remote if you tried to escape the police would bring you back for punishment for your evil ways. There are about 10,000 active members of this very dangerous sect of the LDS. Many women and children and even men want to escape but cannot. Warren Jeffs is the tip of the iceberg.

You mention a few positives and say how they outweigh any negatives...you are showing YOUR biased here. YOU have obviously drank the koolaide....

First there are much better ways to true spiritual enlightenment and other Universities provide much better training opportunities it would be much better for these youths to serve their country and community and to slave for the Church. Those Opportunities or Callings are nothing but forced slave labor for the church and of course you are evil and condemned if you do not comply. All churches provide some strength to its members a strength in numbers. Some people can find no other support mechanism that the church and they of course exploit this to gain members.

Lets get to brass tacks here.

The LDS Church is nothing but a Scam.

LDS is a fake Religion based on another Religion that is distortion of the truth in itself. How weird is that? For crying out loud they wear magic underwear and got the Word from the bottom of a hat with a magic reading stone!

Are there some nice Mormons? Of course there are! I just don't want lunatics running my country even if they are pleasant lunatics.

anyway Bart enjoy your delusions...