FInders Keepers. If Spain had wanted the booty that badly, they should've been looking for it and brought it up themselves.

I love this treasure hunting stuff.

The article said

Spain has filed a suit in Tampa against Odyssey to clarify the details of its discovery, to prevent future recovery efforts and to claim back what has already been discovered. But the company refuses to reveal specific information about the treasure, admitting only that it was found around 180 nautical miles west of Gibraltar....

Wouldn't being 180 nautical miles AWAY FROM Gibralter put the treasure found in international waters and out of the hands of Spain? Doesn't that make any treasure found up for grabs and belonging to the ones who found it?

Plus the treasure hunters are claiming that the "pieces of eight" found on the ship do not necessarily mean that the ship was a Spanish ship and therefore any findings belong to Spain.

Anybody know about the international water boundary?

Goat

You must have been typing your post at the same time as me so I'll ask you my question 'cause I want to know -- .

When does the boundary line for "international waters" apply so that no particular country can make a claim on anything found?

This is a perfect case for a userblog I put up on October 15th about an international treaty -- "Law of the Sea Treaty" -- Bush signed onto and gave away U.S. sovereignty over the seas. Here is a main paragraph from it --

President Bush is about to take his country by the hand and make a great leap forward into world government. [Bush] has signed on to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, or the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST), which transfers jurisdiction over the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian and Arctic oceans and all the oil and mineral resources they contain, to an International Seabed Authority. This second United Nations would be ceded eternal hegemony over two-thirds of the Earth. It is the greatest U.N. power grab in history and, thanks to George Bush, is about to succeed.

Okay, Bush signed away our former rights of the sea over to his globalist pals. So then what happens in a case like this one? From this treasure story, apparently Tampa, Florida was to hear the case but with our sovereignty over the seas now given away by Bush to a globalist "International Seabed Authority" agency -- WHO DECIDES WHO GETS THE TREASURE??

Seriously, can anyone answer this for me?

I dunno CC. I do remember that when I was in the Navy we could get tax free cigarettes once we were 3 miles out of port. They were $2.50/carton. (not a typo)

But Russians are making claim to the N pole, so who knows?

(continued from the end of my post above. I put a double 'blockquote" by mistake.

"Okay, Bush signed away our former rights of the sea over to his globalist pals. So then what happens in a case like this one? From this treasure story, apparently Tampa, Florida was to hear the case but with our sovereignty over the seas now given away by Bush when he signed onto the LOST agreement with the globalist "International Seabed Authority" agency --then WHO DECIDES WHO GETS THE TREASURE?? The U.S. or the globalist agency?

Seriously, can anyone answer this for me?"

Nobody expects the Spanish Imposition!

What's new? With the US claiming ownership of Iraq and Russia claiming the Artic, might still makes right. It's the law of nations.

Goat

I thought this LOST agreement Bush just signed our country onto would be of real interest to you working on an oil rig because disputes that might come up for oil found within U.S. jurisdiction would have to now be settled by this globalist agency instead of U.S. courts -- not a good thing. Maybe I've read this wrong -- or it doesn't apply in your case but -- "authority over OIL and mineral resources" would cover any oil deposits found in U.S. territory, right?

"...the Law of the Sea, or the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST), which transfers jurisdiction over the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian and Arctic oceans and all the oil and mineral resources they contain, to an International Seabed Authority....

It's the law of nations.

Posted by Ray at 2007-10-17 08:47 PM

Not anymore if the individual nations have turned over their national laws to some globalist agency under the LOST agreement -- like Bush has now done with the U.S.

Well, this treasure finding lawsuit combined with change of sovereignty due to the signing of the LOST agreement should make for an interesting finding as to who has the final jurisdiction to try the case.

It's a facade Chris. They are designed to give the appearance of international cooperation while under the control of the federales and its corporate friends. Watch Asia. They're not playing that game.

"authority over OIL and mineral resources" would cover any oil deposits found in U.S. territory, right?

I know that the oil companies lease the rights to drill in certain areas. I don't know who the lessor is, however. It's always been a mystery to me, too. I's just goes with the tow and keeps the electrons movin'. *grin*

I's just goes with the tow and keeps the electrons movin'. *grin*

Posted by goatman at 2007-10-17 09:02

And pick up tax free cartons of cigarettes outside the 3 miles line when the chance comes up - **grin cough grin hack cough grin**

"3 miles line" -- should be "3 mile line"

Well, I'm more interested in the treasure hunting part of this story than the legalities. What an exciting job to have -- discovering lost treasure!

'I dunno CC. I do remember that when I was in the Navy we could get tax free cigarettes once we were 3 miles out of port. They were $2.50/carton. (not a typo)"

Same with me when i was on CV-41, that now resides in in SD.

You must have been in the same general time i was.

It used to be law of the sea, until govts figured they'd try and steal from these salvagers.

International Waters is not so international anymore.

Ah, maties. All that treasure makes me go 'RRRrrrrrrrrrrr !!"

Nobody expects the Spanish Imposition!

Ha! FF fer Cookfish!

Give us yer dubloons or we'll put you in the comfy chair agin!

Pieces of eight?

"Pieces of eight
The search for the money tree
Don't cash your freedoms in for gold
Pieces of eight
Can't buy you everything
Don't let it turn your heart to stone

Styx and Stones may break ones bones
but cheesy pop really really hurtZ!

Be Well.

Same with me when i was on CV-41, that now resides in in SD.

You must have been in the same general time i was.

'75 - '81 (unless you ask Buffalo Bob -- he'll tell you I wasn't)

How'd they get the midway to South Dakota? *grin*

I's just goes with the tow and keeps the electrons movin'. *grin*

Posted by goatman at 2007-10-17 09:02

And pick up tax free cartons of cigarettes outside the 3 miles line when the chance comes up - **grin cough grin hack cough grin**

Can't buy cigs on the rig. In fact, can't buy anything here. No money exchanges hands here except at the poker table -- and you'll get fired for that if caught.

Besides, I quit smoking when I had to start paying more than $2.50/carton. I'm a cheap bastard

Being a cheap bastard who's tight with a buck is okay if that's what got Goatman to quit smoking.


Posted by CalifChris at 2007-10-18 05:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

*Hasn't had a cigarette in about 4 days.*

Do you people have any idea what time it is?

Yeah, for me in California it's really late!
Or, for everybody back East, it's really early.

*Hasn't had a cigarette in about 4 days.*

I've got my vices but smoking isn't one of them :)

And now I'm now heading off to bed -- ** double yawn***

G'night all

Spain will argue its within its 200 mile economic zone as set out in UN Convention on Law of The Sea 1982.

An exclusive economic zone extends for 200 nautical miles (370 km) beyond the baselines of the territorial sea, thus it includes the territorial sea and its contiguous zone.[3] A coastal nation has control of all economic resources within its exclusive economic zone, including fishing, mining, oil exploration, and any pollution of those resources. However, it cannot regulate or prohibit passage or loitering above, on, or under the surface of the sea, whether innocent or belligerent, within that portion of its exclusive economic zone beyond its territorial sea. Before 1982, coastal nations arbitrarily extended their territorial waters in an effort to control activities which are now regulated by the exclusive economic zone, such as offshore oil exploration or fishing rights (see Cod War). Indeed, the exclusive economic zone is still popularly, though erroneously, called a coastal nation's territorial waters.

Good info, Odie1. However, how is Spain gonna argue that this law applies in this case? The salvage can hardly be classified as a natural resource. I thought the UN 1982 law only applied to natural resources (ie fishing, mining, oil) and not items that are, well, not natually occuring (Like Pieces of 8!) If they want to get technical about who the gold "originally" belonged to, well, then they should pack it up and ship it on back to the Americas. I really don't think Spain has a leg to stand on in this case.

Actually folks, if memory serves, the issue here is not international boundaries but Admiralty Law which is a whole education unto itself. Virtually every nation is signatory to it and agrees with its jurisdiction.

Some of it's fine points: If a vessel in distress--regardless of whether it's in boundary waters--requests assistance, and the master of the vessel or an individual employed by the vessel's owners remains aboard during assistance and recovery, then the owners retain all rights to the vessel and its cargo. If the vessel is abandoned however, full salvage rights go to whomever boards and brings the vessel into port, regardless of what port that might be. When a vessel founders, things get a little murkier, and if no salvage effort is made by the owners, then GENERALLY, the primacy of salvage rights goes to the national government of registry (under which flag it was registered) In this case that would be Spain.

The issue of national boundaries at sea comes into play when a vessel appears to be in violation of national law and is physically within the jurisdiction thereof. So Spain acted to keep a vessel--physically within its sovereign waters--that it believes is in violation of its laws, from exiting. This is a totally separate issue from the physical location of the salvaged wreck, and a right recognized by all sovereign nations.

As to whom legally owns the wreck and its cargo, that issue must be argued before Admiralty Court and the winner takes all, although there is usually a settlement paid to the original owner(s) heir(s) etc. to keep the peace.

*****Spain Forces Treasure Ship Into Port ******

.........time to bring democracy to Spain......