please don't murder me

Even assuming they were all justifiable and necessary, it does argue for replacement by US military. 195 shooting incidents isn't security, it's combat.

What the fuck are we doing with mercenaries anyway?

.....and why do they not have to follow the same rules as our troops?

This doesn't bother anyone else?

THERE WILL BE NO SHOOTING IN THE WAR ZONE.

WE WILL NOT TOLERATE IT!

Even better-

Dr. Strangelove:

GENTLEMAN! THERE WILL BE NO FIGHTING IN THE WAR ROOM!

Erik Prince = Dick Cheney lite.

It sounds like a plot by the pants-pissing limp wristed liberal Blackwater to embarrass President Bush.

Nice to see we're importing our own terrorists. Way to get those civilians on our side!

According to the Bushies here, that means at least 195 high ranking al queda figures were shot.
Because Blackwater, like Bush, are God's Own Mercenaries.

What are they supposed to do? Get shot at instead?

What are they supposed to do? Get shot at instead?

Another troll!

You still the poor poor college student with kids and proud your making it on your own with no help because you are taking the republican responsibility so serious?

Umm, it is a combat area. They get fired on, they return fire. Now as far as the rules of engagement they do not fall under the UCMJ or uniform code of military justice. There are tons of security companies from all over the world that are over there, but they want to pick on the American one. Trust me there are far worse folks over there that are pulling security for contracts over there. As far as being mercs, blackwater is not a soldier of fortune outfit. Blackwater is not engaged in "combat operations" they are not fighting for a government but defending either personal, equipment or assets. Mercs are like the executive outcomes like organization that came out of places like south africa or other former colonial territories in africa. If anyone saw blood diamond, that is a merc organization, and Blackwater does not fall into that catagory.

They get fired on, they return fire

"In 32 of those incidents, Blackwater were returning fire after an attack while on 163 occasions (84 percent of the shooting incidents), Blackwater personnel were the first to fire,"

gee somebody should savemycountry from the illiterate.

"return fire"

Cue fart-lighting video.

pre-emptively returning fire:
According to the report, which was based largely on internal Blackwater e-mail messages and State Department documents and compiled by the Democratic staff of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, the episode began between 10:30 and 11:30 p.m. on Dec. 24 when the off-duty Blackwater employee, who witnesses said had been drinking heavily, passed through a gate near Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki's compound in the Green Zone.

When confronted by bodyguards to Vice President Adil Abdul Mahdi of Iraq, the Blackwater employee fired his Glock 9-millimeter pistol, hitting one of the guards, Raheem Khalif, three times. Mr. Khalif, 32, later died at an American military hospital.

Blackwater does not fall into that catagory.

Meaning mercs

But they have recruited special forces trained soldiers from all over the world. The hired over 700 guys in Chile and then those same guys got pissed because they were only getting $35 a day.

There's around 35-45,000 "security personnel" in Iraq and about 100,000 support contractors who basically run supply operations and services.

I don't think anyone is picking on Blackwater because it's a US company. It's the publicity they've gotten, and the political influence they have.

It was the Clinton Administration that gave them a federal vending license. But it's ties to the fundamentalist faction has helped them promote their agenda.

Seems to me that historically US Embassies have been guarded by Marines. Now we have private security. NO doubt the guiding hand of the market has saved us from yet another government program, and a lot of money in the process.

Yeah, when some of their contractors make a $1000 a day I'm sure we're saving money. Maybe that's why they're in South America signing up Pinochet's old crew.

Well if you guys dont like contact your represenetive and ask for security personal in iraq to fall under the UCMJ and the rules of engagement that binds coalition forces. But I am sure it will be in vain since it is a foregn country with its own laws, maybe you can contact the iraqi gov't if your that upset. honestly why do you even care, if the iraqi gov't cared they would arrest the people who are involved and try them in a court of law. Blackwater is not bound to any laws other than the ones in the country they operate in. Face it, Blackwater fills a needed job in Iraq and thats not going to change, and all the whining and crying by the liberal left isn't going to change that. They are not in the military so they cannot be controlled by the rules of engagement that ties the hands of our forces. Actually if the rules were laxed on our troops we might be able to get more done.

They are not in the military so they cannot be controlled by the rules of engagement that ties the hands of our forces. Actually if the rules were laxed on our troops we might be able to get more done.

Posted by savemycountry at 2007-10-02 12:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

You make it sound as if it would be somehow difficult to say "hey, you want the contract, you operate under the same rules of engagement that are good enough for our own troops".

Bush doesn't give a fuck about hearts and minds and this is proof.

Well that's one way to win the hearts and minds. At least if you can find their hearts splattered on the grounds.

And everyone bitches about al Queda beheading people with knives.

Blackwater Involved in 195 Shootings

While I fully support the investigation into Blackwater's conduct and they shuld be held accountable for any violations, I think some perspective is necessary.

As anybody who watched Ken Burns' documentary "The War" knows, the atrocities comitted by our troops (The Greatest Generation) in WW2 far exceed the few incidents that can be attributed to our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Of course, those went unreported because any negative information about US conduct during the war that would put the US in a bad light was never released to the public, by the government or by the Press who were complicit in their desire to boost morale, promote optimism, and achieve victory.

If the Lefties on drudge.com held our government and troops during WW2 to the same standards that they hold today, they would be calling FDR a "War Criminal" equal to or worse then Hitler, and they would be calling the troops war criminals as well and screaming that they should be jailed for murder.

If the Lefties on drudge.com held our government and troops during WW2 to the same standards that they hold today, they would be calling FDR a "War Criminal"

Well-known Leftie and Comsymp Curtis LeMay told Robert McNamara that if Japan had won the war, the two of them would've been tried as war criminals. McNamara agreed.

War just somehow doesn't seem to bring out the best in people. To pretend that the "other side" is "criminal" and "our side's" actions aren't is just plain stupid.

By waging a war of aggression, Bush has placed himself in the box as a war criminal. And if the Blackwater crew has acted as it appears they've acted, then they can join him in mounting a joint defense.

""While I fully support the investigation into Blackwater's conduct and they shuld be held accountable for any violations, I think some perspective is necessary.""

Yes. We need to remember that these thugs with Blackwater were making many times the amount that our troops are, were given better living conditions, less risky assignments, etc. Our troops are subject to the military's laws while the thugs thought they were immune to any and all prosecution and could kill people for fun as we have seen in earlier reports. The perspective all this brings us to is that it is a recipe for disaster to allow crony capitalists to create private mercenary forces and bill Uncle Sam ridiculous amounts of money to do what our troops do with honor and courage for far less money. The perspective all this really brings is that we have a criminal administration and they have hired mercenary thugs while America doesn't have a clue.

Mercenaries do what mercenaries do. If you think this is bad, wait until it's discovered mercenaries tend to lend their services to the highest bidder. Boy, won't Bush be surprised.

Bowa, IF the Germans DID NOT believe that the Americans had a consistent value to treat prisoners well, they would have reacted to us the way they did the Russians, and I can promise you the war in Europe would have continued at least through 1946 in places like Norway and the Alps.

You're going to have to get your mind around the fact that many, likely most, of the American soldiers that fought WWII were "Lefties" by the standards of Rush Limbaugh.

195 shootings in a war zone over 2 years? Yeah, that sounds like something to get your panties bunched over...How many shootings happened in New Orleans last night?

You are wrong, Savemycountry, the personel of Blackwater, particularly US Citizens employed by Blackwater, are bound to the laws and codes of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA.
It is an CONSTITUTIONAL absolute.
No one, not even Criminal george w. bush, can set these laws aside.
precedent cannot stand, as the precedent was illegal to begin with. Often without the knowledge of the people, until well after implimentation.

Since no Constitutional Ammendments have EVER set aside the covenants of authority, and the prohibitions upon authority, contained within the articles of MY document.
The supreme court, nor congress, nor the exective have the authority to nullify, set aside or ignore the language.
Even the attempt to do so is labeled as sedition within the document.
When the government becomes an entity, superior to the constitution and the will of the people, when the interest of business and religion supercede the rights and liberty of the citizen, you are engaged in acts of sedition.
Since it takes a constitutional ammendment to authorize the housing and support of foreign armies, at the expense of the citizen, the very existance of Blackwater is illegal. A private, paid militia, not held to the laws of this nation is illegal. Congress has no authority to fund these entities. In any fashion or design.
An act of sedition by congress, the state department, the intelligence community, the military.
All for something other than the security and liberty of the citizens of this nation.

Bowa, IF the Germans DID NOT believe that the Americans had a consistent value to treat prisoners well,

LOL

Zed, you keep believing that Zed. That somehow our soldiers today are less humane then the soldiers during WW2 -- you would have to be nuts to believe that.

In fact, the fighting was so much more personal and in close quarters in WW2 , the soldiers had a visceral hatred for the japs and krauts and they murdered and tortured our enemies to a much greater extent then is going on now in Iraq.

We just never heard about here because the governemnt and the POress decided early on that the public didn't need to hear about the horrors of war that might hurt our nations morale and resolve.

It would seem that the contractors are really the "phony soldiers"...if they were paid what soldiers are paid would they still be in Iraq?

Bowa, so the Blackwater heroes of today are better than the phoney soldiers of WW2?
Man, you are a real patriot, aren't you?

195 shootings in a war zone over 2 years? Yeah, that sounds like something to get your panties bunched over

While I tend to agree with you 101, in putting Blackwater guys on the same plain as gang-bangers and drug dealers, lets not forget to put 9-11 in perspective,too. 3000 killed is only about 1/5 the number of gun related deaths, and 1/10 the number of alcohol related deaths in 2001, so why again did we get our panties in a knot over that?

blackwater(haditha redux)

Prince, 38, said existing laws and regulations provide an adequate level of accountability and oversight for contractors in battle zones. But, "Blackwater believes that more can and should be done to increase accountability, oversight and transparency," he said.

Prince said the company supports legislation written by North Carolina Democratic Rep. David Price, a longtime advocate of increasing the legal oversight of contractors. This week, the House will consider a bill by Price that would make all contractors subject to prosecution in U.S. courts.

---In more than 80 percent of the incidents, called "escalation of force," Blackwater's guards fired the first shots even though the company's contract with the State Department calls for it to use defensive force only, the report said.
---this is just a stupid statement, so dont shoot unless you are already wounded?

---Blackwater bills the U.S. government $1,222 per day for a single "protective security specialist," it said. That works out to $445,891 on an annual basis, far higher than it would cost the military to provide the same service.
---these guys are former spec ops, triple canopy, dyncorp same deal, these are the best of the best, the most professional.

how is it they are mercenaries? they are not engaged in offensive ops, they guard people.

these are volunteers that are paid very well, if they werent there then you would have 18-20 yr old kids in their place putting more soldiers at risk for bush's oil, you idiot libs need to make up your mind.

Most of the "contractors" are hardened combat veterans, many of then with elite special forces backgrounds.

They do a "good job," and so they are criticized.

They are alleged to have driven away from ambushes without stopping to determine if Iraqi civilians were injured as a result of collateral damage.

It is difficult to envision the detachment from reality of the politicians and the media, when a column escorting a protected person, comes under fire, is criticized for fleeing the scene when under fire. It is ambushed and returns fire as it is waylaid. Now, the firing continues. The "mission" of the contractors is to protect their charge. Nevertheless. some rather confused people would have them stop, continue to engage the attackers, and expose their charge to harm. Then they are supposed to conduct an investigation?

The initial claim makes it seems as if there was an exchange, which had ended with the contractors in control of the place of engagement. That was not so. But the media continue to misrepresent circumstances. Rely on them.

Should that reporter from Time Magazine, who contrived the Haditha story with his Iraqi helper, who "just happened to be" sympathetic to the terrorists, be called to answer for his charges. Shouldn't false charges that negatively impact those falsely accused, result in criminal liability for the accuser? Should Time and its irresponsible employees be barred from the war zone and any interviews with the military? Scandalous.

It's a good thing that that demirep, that lowlife Murtha, who is a king of pork, and has disreputable associations, is being sued, and called to answer questions in court concerning his libelous or slanderous claims regarding our troops in Iraq.

It costs us (at least those of us who pay the bulk of taxes - in other words, progressives from blue states) about $450,000 per Blackwater security wanna-be soldier. That is way more than it would cost to have soldiers doing that duty, which they've done in past wars. But, of course, how would that help corporate America? How would the greedy fucks in the Bush Administration and Congress get their pockets lined?

"these are volunteers that are paid very well, if they werent there then you would have 18-20 yr old kids in their place putting more soldiers at risk for bush's oil, you idiot libs need to make up your mind.

Posted by scooter28054 at 2007-10-02 11:28 AM"

I'll take the $100,000 volunteer over the $450,000 volunteer. Thanks for asking.

It costs us (at least those of us who pay the bulk of taxes - in other words, progressives from blue states)


I didn't realize that the wealthy (those who pay taxes) were "progressives" (sic) and thus are the base of the Democratic Party.

I always thought the wealthy voted for Republicans.


Gee, we learn something new every day on the DR.

I guess there's hope for you yet, Jeffy.

"" didn't realize that the wealthy (those who pay taxes) were "progressives" (sic) and thus are the base of the Democratic Party.

I always thought the wealthy voted for Republicans.""

They used to but then figured out that Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy will end up costing them when the bills finally come due and have to be paid. They finally figured out there is no free lunch (or war).

They do a "good job," and so they are criticized.

A Blackwater USA employee under investigation in the killing last December of an Iraqi bodyguard in an off-duty confrontation was so drunk after fleeing the shooting that another group of guards took away the loaded pistol he was fumbling with, a report to a House committee said Monday.


The guards, employees of Triple Canopy, another private military contractor, returned the weapon to the Blackwater employee, who smelled of alcohol, and escorted him away from their guard post in the fortified Green Zone, the report said. Shortly afterward, the police detained the man, a 26-year-old firearms technician whom the report did not name, at the Blackwater camp inside the Green Zone, but determined he was too intoxicated to be interviewed.
When confronted by bodyguards to Vice President Adil Abdul Mahdi of Iraq, the Blackwater employee fired his Glock 9-millimeter pistol, hitting one of the guards, Raheem Khalif, three times. Mr. Khalif, 32, later died at an American military hospital.

But Blackwater pumps a lot of cash into the GOP's pockets, so we can understand how they keep getting those fat no bid contracts.

Prince has contributed $200,000 to the Republican National Committee since 1998, and also has supported the candidacies of conservatives such as President George W. Bush and Senator Tom Coburn.
Cofer Black, the company's current vice chairman, and national security advisor for Mitt Romney, was the Bush administration's top counter terrorism official when 9/11 occurred (and didn't he do a great job then). Blackwater has become home to a significant number of former senior CIA and Pentagon officials. Robert Richer became the firm's Vice President of Intelligence immediately after he resigned his position as Associate Deputy Director of Operations in fall 2005.
Blackwater is currently the biggest of the US State Department's three private security contractors.[1] At least 90% of its revenue comes from government contracts, two-thirds of which are no-bid contracts.

195 shootings in a war zone over 2 years? Yeah, that sounds like something to get your panties bunched over...How many shootings happened in New Orleans last night?

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2007-10-02 09:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

You truly have a gift.

The ability to ignore something and then make some botched comparison.

Yes, Mr. Apples&Oranges, you truly are gifted.

Ex-seals, black ops, blackwater, civilians are shot dead, Is that Coffee I smell, Jeez people wake up, our government has participated in many loathsome activities, wanna stop it? Run For Office.

How do we go from WW2 soldiers to mercenaries (NOT SOLDIERS) of today?

Also, when did Iraq declare war on us and make propaganda films about how they would enslave the US citizens as their armies marched across our lands?

Are you tards seriously comparing WW2 to Iraq and WW2 soldiers to contract mercs?

They are not in the military so they cannot be controlled by the rules of engagement that ties the hands of our forces. Actually if the rules were laxed on our troops we might be able to get more done.

Posted by savemycountry at 2007-10-02 12:44 AM | Reply |

I disagree, they can be totally controlled, its called a contract stipulation. If they breach the contract they lose.

And do tell what you think the troops are being currently restrained from other than wanton genocide?

Oh yeah, they break a contract stipulation and what happens??? Jail??? Hardly.
A soldier breaks the rules that's where he goes.

They are a bunch of thugs turned loose without the necessary discipline.
Hearts and minds in Iraq....riiiight.

Face it, the only way Bush can cover the responsibilities in Iraq and elsewhere without instituting a draft is to outsource the jobs previously done by the military and National Guard (Katrina).

And to institute a draft would threaten all those Young Republicans (and their $$ donor parents) with the horrors of service. There are only so many TANG posts and medical science has eliminated the horror of butt pimples. And with mark Foley gone, the whole intern don't ask/don't tell excuse is gone. And Airport toilets crammed with College Republicans would get obvious.

And to do so now, after 6 years of no sacrifice/tax cut GWOT would be another admission of failure on Bush's part. It's so much better to just borrow the money from China, take kickbacks and let the odd innocent Iraqi die than to have to face reality.

Interesting that the lefties want those representing us in life and death situations to be restricted so that they can't operate as effectively.

Why?

Oh, you prefer Americans to die. No sense of affiliation with your fellow countrymen out on the line taking the risk and doing your dirty work?

And yeah, continue to trivialize the value of oil.

""Interesting that the lefties want those representing us in life and death situations to be restricted so that they can't operate as effectively."""

Interesting that the right wants to kill, rape and murder with impunity.

No sense of affiliation with your fellow countrymen out on the line taking the risk and doing your dirty work?

Johnson-you do realise that many of Blackwater's mercenaries aren't Americans, yet when they shoot their into trouble, American troops have died getting them out of it? As for doing "my dirty work", sorry I didn't vote for the war or the Failure-in-Chief who's running it. They're just being used to cover for the failures created by Bush and Rummy. But feel free to sign up-the money's good and you can shoot whoever you want.

""
Oh, you prefer Americans to die. ""

Why do you bother to post idiotic crap like that???
ARe you really that stupid???
Yes??
Oh.

Oh, you prefer Americans to die. No sense of affiliation with your fellow countrymen out on the line taking the risk and doing your dirty work?

And yeah, continue to trivialize the value of oil.

Posted by Johnson at 2007-10-02 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which countrymen are those? The ones standing right next to our soldiers who don't have to follow the same rules? Those ones?

These guys and gals are fine representives of the US of NRA.

AS always the RNC/NRA/Blackwater is working hard to preserve the American Way of death.

You want controversy? Just wait until the Bush administration outsources the mercenary trade to Dubai.

You want controversy? Just wait until the Bush administration outsources the mercenary trade to Dubai.

Posted by Apocalypto at 2007-10-02 03:49 PM |

Hasn't Halli moved its HQ already?

You truly have a gift.

The ability to ignore something and then make some botched comparison.

Yes, Mr. Apples&Oranges, you truly are gifted.

Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2007-10-02 01:44 PM | Reply


It's not too hard to ignore 195 shootings in 2 years whilst in a combat zone you silly little fucker.

It's not too hard to ignore 195 shootings in 2 years whilst in a combat zone you silly little fucker.

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2007-10-02 05:04 PM | Reply

This might be a little more difficult:

"In 32 of those incidents, Blackwater were returning fire after an attack while on 163 occasions (84 percent of the shooting incidents), Blackwater personnel were the first to fire," Waxman, a vocal critic of the Iraq war, said.

Couple that with abu grabass, the recent allegations of planting evidence, the baiting, the raping and killing incidents that are whitewashed and you're starting to paint a pretty grim fucking picture of what's going down.

Just who the fuck does the u.s. think they are?

Terrorist is what terrorist does.

To bad the dumbasses in Iraq dont stay out of Blackwaters way, then they wouldnt get shot.All you non combat,non military seeing ,sorry fucks can kiss my ass. There aint nuthin you can do except piss and moan on this vile website.Enjoy!

All these private security firms are an insult to the men and women who still wear a uniform.

Gen. Petraeus who commands 160,000 troops get paid $180,000 annually and that piss-ant ex-seal makes a million for commanding 800 ex-military panty-waste losers, taken from our tax-paying wallets.

What a travesty. Our soldiers, sailors and Marines aren't good enough to provide security? This is the message that these hearings tell the American people. if other countries wish to use private security firms, that's fine. We're not the Europeans. Thanks God.

I'd like to personally whup all their mercenary asses and take their money and hand it out on a street corner in New Orleans.

Fuck 101 and his grredy ass republican butt buddies...faggot.

I'd like to personally whup all their mercenary asses and take their money and hand it out on a street corner in New Orleans.

Fuck 101 and his grredy ass republican butt buddies...faggot.

Posted by ArmyVet at 2007-10-02 07:20 PM | Reply | Flag


I'm sure you're a real ass kicker buttercup. Internet toughs are really impressive.

Go practice up on your stuffed animals tough guy.

Internet toughs are really impressive.
Posted by 101HairyPalmChairborne


No, not really, muffin.