They should just cite "executive priveledge" like the whitehouse did when hiding evidence.

This story is as old as the hills. It was settled today, revealed years ago. However when the towers came dowm MS probably did lose a huge amount of info. I believe it was the headquarters.....

God damn, it should be straight up treason to misuse 9/11 for personal gain.
They knew damn well that if they said the records were lost on 9/11 that nobody would say "Prove it".

Morgan Stanley, the second-largest securities firm, will pay $12.5 million

Morgan Stanley probably saved billions by doing this.

BTW Emails never die, do they?

They should just cite "executive priveledge" like the whitehouse did when hiding evidence.

Not being president, Morgan Stanley can't do that. What you say? You knew that but you just wanted to bash Bush in an unrelated thread because you thought it would be so original and witty.

You failed. It's been done before ad nauseum.

Emails never die, do they?

I think Karl found a way.

Emails never die, do they?

Nope. And it's absurd that MS actually thought people would believe that. Every corporation, especially one that deals with a financial nature keeps backups off site.

Funny how nothing was lost that recorded their assets!

Funny how nothing was lost that recorded their assets!

Yes, things were lost to gain them assets!

Corporations have no moral sense unless the people running them do. Too often they don't and with too many of them, it's all about money and nothing else. We should remember that the next time some polluter, HMO or credit card company comes out with its bullshit about money being free speech the next time it wants to flood the media or buy politicians to push its cause.

BushCo came into office promising to run the country like a corporation. It's the one promise they've kept.

One wonders since Morgan Stanley essentially stole millions by cheating on legalities (claiming lost emails re production of document requests) concerning their company's arbitration lawsuits with their clients, then what else have they cheated on and stolen from their clients?

If I had large -- or even not so large -- stock holdings with this company I would pay an outside firm or accountant to go over my Morgan Stanley portfolio with a fine-tooth comb.

God damn, it should be straight up treason to misuse 9/11 for personal gain.

You wanna hang $9.11 Guiliani? Bowa will be crushed.

More Corporate sensitivity at work...

A company like MS is required to keep backups and records of emails. There are many regulations guide businesses when it comes to IT environments. Two regulations I can list of the top of my head are HIPPA (for Health related companies) and Sarbanes-Oxley. Then if you do business with Europe you have to get a ISO certification for your business processes which also cover email guidelines.

I don't know any other system engineer that would not have sufficient bakcup for emails.

I got a hiccup in my backup.

FIY Morgan Stanley had 3500 employees
between north and south towers and largest
tenant within WTC's. They probably make
$12.5 million in one good trading day.

You failed. It's been done before ad nauseum.

Funny how you can't just ignore it. You whine as if it's your site.

You knew that but you just wanted to bash Bush in an unrelated thread because you thought it would be so original and witty.

Tell you what, I'll connect the two. Perhaps MS is just following BushCo's fine example.

``Hiding behind the events of Sept. 11 to avoid litigation obligations is unseemly,''

so pleasantly understated, that.

MS isnt the only company to take advantage of the "opportunities" presented by 9/11, is this news?
furthermore, what kind of investment firm wouldnt take advantage of that? If they got a hand-slapping for this, you can be sure theres other stuff they didnt get nabbed for.

war, disaster, and tragedy have made a great many people rich.

If this wasn't a major corporation it would be labeled a criminal enterprise and be dissolved and the top peoople would go to jail. There are two sets of laws in this country.

If this wasn't a major corporation it would be labeled a criminal enterprise and be dissolved and the top peoople would go to jail.

The reactionary speaks.

No, Danni, they could not be labeled a criminal enterprise simply because wrongdoing existed. For it to be a criminal enterprise they would have to be abusing their shareholders' and customers' funds in a manner that kept the corporation in a state of liquidity.

But you would like that, wouldn't you? All the people who have their retirement and 401k savings would lose them like the Enron employees. Then they would be dependent on the government when they retired. And if the government couldn't take care of them all (which would probably be the case) people like you could bitch about that, too.

Danni's rallying cry: "Give us misery so we can complain!"

Goatman your post is so idiotic that I just deleted my response because there really isn't anything to respond to.

Danni's rallying cry: "Give us misery so we can complain!"

Hey, Goat, you gotta keep it all in perspective. Once you realize that Danni arises every morning and discovers that someone has peed in her cereal and that her panties are all wadded up, she lights up her first joint for the day and sits down at her keyboard. We are just observing the results of all this activity.

Goatman your post is so idiotic that I just deleted my response...

Didn't work. But Danni, you have to admit that of all the DR posters, you have one of the most negative outlooks on life. Everything to you is a tragedy or conspiracy or some sort of malfeasance. This is simply an observation, not a criticism.

""Didn't work. But Danni, you have to admit that of all the DR posters, you have one of the most negative outlooks on life. Everything to you is a tragedy or conspiracy or some sort of malfeasance. This is simply an observation, not a criticism.""

Not on life Goatman, you never really see any posts from me about "life." We debate politics here and anyone who looks at the situation this nation is in right now is either angry as hell or they aren't paying attention.
You can call that negativity, I call it facing reality.

You can call that negativity, I call it facing reality.

I see reality, but I don't put a negative spin on it. Face it Danni, You do. Let's just look at your post that brought this up. You said,

If this wasn't a major corporation it would be labeled a criminal enterprise and be dissolved and the top peoople would go to jail.

Yet what happened there was nowhere near a criminal act that required dissolution of the company. That's what I mean about being negative. You call it reality. I don't see any version of reality that would allow this company to be dissolved because of missing emails, and I think you are smart enough to know the same. I just think you wanted to put a negative spin on it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you really do think hundreds of thousands -- maybe millions -- of investors who have their retirement savings with Morgan Stanley deserve to lose it all because MS should be dissolved on account of lying about missing emails. You don't much sound like a liberal who cares about other people to me.

""Yet what happened there was nowhere near a criminal act that required dissolution of the company.""

Let's see what happens to you or me if we lie to a court and claim that information is not available and later the court finds that we lied.
I don't want to see any of those people lose anything and I will bet you those lost emails did cost them money.

Let's see what happens to you or me if we lie to a court and claim that information is not available and later the court finds that we lied

You pay millions of dollars in fines like morgan stanley did, that's what happens. I never said their crimes should be ignored. I strongly disagree with your thinking that it is necessary to dissolve the company. If that isn't an overreaction to the situation, I don't know what is, Danni.

""You pay millions of dollars in fines like morgan stanley did, that's what happens.""

Baloney, as your buddy Scooter Libby discovered perjury is punishable by jail time...unless you have friends in high places.
With "millions of dollars in fines" it is just a mathematical calculation to determine whether or not it is profitable to tell the truth. If Morgan Stanley avoided losing more than the fines then they came out ahead on the deal. And you accuse me of not caring about the investors who lost their money???? I think you seem pretty cavalier about investment companies committing perjury and ripping off retirees and such.
Or is it just that you saw my post and decided to disagree with whatever I said???
Yeah, that's probably the most likely scenario.

Yeah, you convinced me Danni. That scooter libby argument did it. Morgan Stanley should be dissolved for hiding a few emails. To make sure this draconion measure is equally applied, the senior officers should be publicly flogged as well before they are drawn and quartered down Wall street.

Or is it just that you saw my post and decided to disagree with whatever I said???

Danni -- I ignore (as in don't respond to) 90% of your posts. See what I mean about you overreacting?

Excuse me for believing that perjury is perjury regardless if you happen to be an executive with a big corporation or not.
Kind of goes back to my original post...There are two sets of laws in this country.

""Danni -- I ignore (as in don't respond to) 90% of your posts.""

Couldn't prove that by me this morning. So far you have responded to nearly 100% of my posts.

But hey, now that you say that I will ignore 100% of yours.
Have a nice day.

Couldn't prove that by me this morning. So far you have responded to nearly 100% of my posts.

I look at the big picture (all your posts). You see the world through blinders (what is happening only today).

Didn't work. But Danni, you have to admit that of all the DR posters, you have one of the most negative outlooks on life. Everything to you is a tragedy or conspiracy or some sort of malfeasance. This is simply an observation, not a criticism.

Posted by goatman at 2007-09-28 08:48 AM | Repl

I don't find that at all about Danni's posts.
Her responses are almost always all well-reasoned and thought out. It's just that you righties don't like the message. DR isn't flooded with Pollyanna-posters 'cause living in Bushworld doesn't bring out much in people to be Pollyanna about -- unless you're a corporate war profiteer or one of their stockholders.

This blog is news and politics -- unfiltered. If it's "phoney perky Pollyanna posts" you're looking for then go to FR or Lucianne.com or any of the other pro-Bush blogs who sugarcoat Bush's destructive policies and war.

Keep up the good work, Danni, you're a spur in the tightyrighties' boots.

Keep up the good work, Danni, you're a spur in the tightyrighties' boots.

And also a spur in the boots of those who look for the truth. However, I don't exactly call exagerrations and lies good work, however.

However, I don't exactly call exaggerations and lies good work, however.

One man's known truths are another man's perceived exaggerations.

One man's known truths are another man's perceived exaggerations.

Is your perceived thruth the same as Danni's? i.e. Morgan Stanley as a corporation should be dissolved for illegally lying about and hiding a few emails?

Is your perceived thruth the same as Danni's? i.e. Morgan Stanley as a corporation should be dissolved for illegally lying about and hiding a few emails?

Posted by goatman at 2007-09-28 02:39 PM

No. The only people who would be hurt would be the smaller shareholders and all the employees of Morgan Stanley. Those guilty of the fraud and deception are already nicely taken care of with their savings/stock dividends in trusts and off-shore bank accounts. I don't believe in hurting thousands of regular hard working folks just to get even with a few at the top.

Goat --

I left you a "thanks" later at night on yesterday's Nooner which has now been taken down so doubt you'd seen it -- thanks so much for your help on how to get a Yahoo email account. Set it up last night -- thanks to you! great suggestion and much appreciated.

No. The only people who would be hurt would be the smaller shareholders and all the employees of Morgan Stanley.

That was my exact argument to Danni. But apparently she thinks you should kill flies with a Howitzer.

I just think sometimes Danni gets pounded on harder on DR when her posts aren't that much out of line with a lot of the others posted on here but she gets singled out and picked on more.