Well there's always the Chinese......................

Yeeeehaaaaaaa!

Let's ride this puppy all the way into the ground courtesy of the "fiscal conservatives" in the whitehouse!


Yippppeeeeee!

Not only is congress' fiscal irresponsability to blame, but the Federal Reverse made things worse by lowering interest rates so much.

.......Bush's fault...........

........increase spending, cut taxes, borrow like a drunken sailor to make up the difference........

..........worst president ever...........

............can't expect a Sock Puppet to do a man's job.........

Gee, who could have ever seen this coming???????

Condi maybe?????????????????????????
???

Man my retirement is going to be worth a fortune at this rate.

Hey Goatman,
I guess Alex Jones was right!

The dollar will strengthen again when euro and Asian central banks reduce rates there. Either that, or they can expect to see an avalanche of US exports strangle their domestic industries.

Just what I've been saying for the past 16 months--the very best investment returns will be had in equities of US companies--the bigger the better-- that derive most of their profits from overseas markets. And that will stay true for most of 2008, at least.

The Saudis did not lower their interest rates in tandem with ours this week, for the first time EVER.

The saudis, kuwaitis and the rest of our buddies in the ME, who hold about 3.5 trillion of our paper, are planning on dumping the dollar. China has threatened to do the same if Congress gets pissy about poison toys or whatever.
RIR: don't hold your breath on other nations dropping interest rates anytime soon. As for our exports being cheaper, true enough, but other than 747s or F-16s, what exactly do we export?

On the bright side, oil hit another record, which, vernon will be along to explain, is the first step in the return of $30 a barrel oil.

RR knows as much about what he is selling as a used car salesman. The US has been exporting inflation and toxic securities for decades and now the wheel is turning in the other direction. The higher they go the harder they fall.

Keep telling I don't know what I'm talking about RR. I want to see how much you are willing to lose before dump stocks. I expect, a lot.

"LONDON, Sept 20 (Reuters) - Spot gold rose more than one percent to hit a 28-year high at $730.20 an ounce on Thursday on safe-haven buying and a slide in the dollar to record lows against the euro."

As sure as a high fever is a measure of disease, a high gold price is a measure of a currency's weakness.

It's interesting how little interest there is in this topic. It'll take a year or two before the impact hits the clueless masses.

Lou Dobbs show today said Bush is going to sell 20% of NASDAQ ownership to the Arabs in Dubai.

The economy is fine.

Go shopping.

The milk you are buying isn't really $5.00 a gallon.

These aren't the Driods you are looking for.

And a question for RiR.

How can we have a strong export economy coming up in the near future when we don't actually build anything anymore?

As for our exports being cheaper, true enough, but other than 747s or F-16s, what exactly do we export?

Posted by northguy3
* * *

How can we have a strong export economy coming up in the near future when we don't actually build anything anymore?

Posted by TreesGoneWild
* * *

LOL. We're the largest exporter in the world, right now.

Oh, lemme guess: you didn't know that, did you? Guess what else? We're also the world's largest manufacturer.

And a question for RiR.

How can we have a strong export economy coming up in the near future when we don't actually build anything anymore?

Posted by TreesGoneWild at 2007-09-20 07:06 PM

Yeah, RiR, and to add on to Trees' statement --

...and if we don't actually OWN anything anymore, either. Bush is selling off this country assets like it's a fire sale.

I actually didn't know Bush could do that. Did he sell your house? Mine? Did he sell a factory in Idaho? How about the national park?

What the hell are you talking about?

Lou Dobbs show today said Bush is going to sell 20% of NASDAQ ownership to the Arabs in Dubai.

Posted by CalifChris
* * * *

I didn't know Bush owned 20% of the NASDAQ. It's publicly traded, just like the NYSE and the Euronext is. You could have bought it too. So why don't you call up the president and ask him to sell his stake to you, instead of them?

What the hell are you talking about?

Posted by rightisright at 2007-09-20 07:13

Don't act naive, RiR. You know what we're talking about. Bush, since the day he got into office, has been privatizing everything he can get his hands on and selling it off not only to corporations but also to foreign governments. For example -- look at the NAFTA Superhighway -- sold off to a Spanish consortium (and the property it is to be built on will be taken by eminent domain).

LOL. Okay. The NAFTA Superhighway again.

Good news. Now there will be more export and less import. A good balancing act.

Americans go abroad less, and more Europeans will come to America. Tourism.

Keep telling I don't know what I'm talking about RR. I want to see how much you are willing to lose before dump stocks. I expect, a lot.

Posted by Ray
* * * *

My average portfolio is up 24% trailing 12 months, and up 8% in the last four weeks.

A better question is how much longer will you sit still for the losses you're suffering in silver? You're down 30% since February. Don't you wish you had bought a CD instead?

LOL. We're the largest exporter in the world, right now.

Oh, lemme guess: you didn't know that, did you? Guess what else? We're also the world's largest manufacturer.

Fortunately for my clients, I didn't invest their money in Dow companies at the high-water mark of the biggest bear market since the Great Depression. At that time, they were in bonds.

For all of the last five years. Recall the study covered 2001 to 2006 and found no scenario in other than 3% of the time in 800,000 variations.

I sincerely doubt what you are saying is the case. You would have to be the Warren Buffet of Warren Buffets to make the claims you are.

BTW?

Toronto is Canada's largest city.

It's thereby the largest magnet for the lowest echelons of society trying to get a job. No friggin' surprise that it has an unemployment rate 1-2% higher.

What's the unemployment rate in Detroit?

I'll help you - quite a bit higher....and so what?

You'll need to tell Canada's manufacturing base that they're through. They need to know to quite, given the growth in the economy they shouldn't be a part of.

Regards,
etc.

RR
My silver portfolio doubled in three years and is still near historical lows. I don't do short term in-and-out investing; that's suicidal.

Since the Fed announced that it cares more about the financial health of its Wall Street friends over the health of the dollar, there 's a darn good chance silver will be breaking over its $15 resistance. In case you are not aware, the dollar broke through a major support line. It's been on a downward slope for the past few years.

Hang around for a few years RR. You're handy as a bellwether of Wall Street herd sentiment.

RisR:

I DID buy a CD at Countrywide (others may laugh, but it's a 5.27 APY).

I'll ask your advice then, you seem to have the financial mojo: I only have $40K savings since I pay into TWO pensions. Where best to put a measly 40K?

I sincerely doubt what you are saying is the case. You would have to be the Warren Buffet of Warren Buffets to make the claims you are.

BTW?
* * * *

What? That my portfolios are up 24% previous 12 months? That wasn't hard--markets in general are up something like 17.

Tell you what, let's go offsite, and we'll make a wager--and I'll document everything I'm telling you. But just don't be like that pussy Moder8, who made a $1,000 bet, lost, then denied having made it.

RisR:

I DID buy a CD at Countrywide (others may laugh, but it's a 5.27 APY).

I'll ask your advice then, you seem to have the financial mojo: I only have $40K savings since I pay into TWO pensions. Where best to put a measly 40K?

Posted by SamBarber

* * *

You were probably better off buying stock in Bank of America--it has a dividend yield of 5.10%, which has NEVER gone down--and you can get the capital gains besides on the shares. Assuming there are any, of course :) If you believe these high oil prices are here to stay, you could lock in an investment in Enterprise Production Partners or Double Hulled Tankers--fantastic dividends (10-14%) but contingent on 65-plus oil. I've got some, but they're not for the faint of heart--the values whipsaw around every time OPEC has a sit-down.

Oops--should have said the dividend at BAC has never gone down--the dividend yield, of course, has seldom been as high as 5.1. It basically means that an investor is better off buying stock in Bank of America, than in buying one of their CD's.

That wasn't hard--markets in general are up something like 17.

"The line separating investment and speculation, which is never bright and clear, becomes blurred still further when most market participants have recently enjoyed triumphs. Nothing sedates rationality like large doses of effortless money. After a heady experience of that kind, normally sensible people drift into behavior akin to that of Cinderella at the ball. They know that overstaying the festivities - that is, continuing to speculate in companies that have gigantic valuations relative to the cash they are likely to generate in the future - will eventually bring on pumpkins and mice. But they nevertheless hate to miss a single minute of what is one helluva party. Therefore, the giddy participants all plan to leave just seconds before midnight. There's a problem, though: They are dancing in a room in which the clocks have no hands."
Warren Buffet Berkshire Hathaway 2000 Annual Report

As I've tried to tell you before, RR, inflationary cycles always end badly - there are no historical exceptions. There's a freight train coming, and you don't hear it.

That wasn't hard--markets in general are up something like 17.

You didn't read a word I posted, did you?

You aren't "up" my investment advice dispensing friend. You. Are. DOWN. DOWN. DOWN. The dollar has made your "gain" something akin to Wily Coyote climbing up the huge rock as it plunges down off the ginormous mountain face and thinking he's made it to the "top".

That's that "bet". Again....read the link. A Canadian dollar beat anything you can buy on the Dow 97% of the time out of 800,000 combinations of buy and sell.

The American dollar has lost GINORMOUS buying power. Your "gain", isn't.

What are you not getting? (why am I asking that....you and I used to have these discussions a year or more ago when I last tried to convince you to get yourself out).

Regards,
etc.

I don't care what the dollar does.

Never mind. You used to say the same thing before and still don't understand you are locked inside a box that got tossed over the side years ago.

You just haven't felt the bump when reality decides to impose itself.

Regards,
etc.

FYI

"Although the US owned 21,775 metric tons of gold in 1949, by 1970, the US had only 7,200 tons left
[estimated as no actual figures available]. And with only 7,200 tons, the US still owed 38,879 tons, a
negative net 31,679 tons.
"In only 21 years, the US went from owning 21,775 tons of gold to owing 31,679 tons, an outflow of
53,454 metric tons of the most precious metal on earth. How much gold does the US now actually have?
No one knows because since 1954 the US has refused to allow a public physical audit of its gold."

The dollar is running on the fumes of faith.

"Gold today is valued primarily as an inflation hedge. That is so because when inflation took hold in the 1970s, gold exploded upwards, rising from $35 per ounce in 1972 to $850 per ounce in 1980, an increase of 2,428 % in just eight years.

"Gold's meteoric rise dwarfed even the historic bull run of the Dow from its low of 777 in 1982 to its high of 11,723 in 2000, a comparative rise of 1,510 % that took eighteen years to accomplish. It is little wonder gold is now primarily remembered as an inflation hedge by most.

"What is equally as important, however, is what happened to gold during the Great Depression, the period when deflation stopped the US and world economy dead in its tracks after the collapse of the historic 1929 stock market bubble, then the largest collapse of a speculative bubble in history.

"During the Great Depression, the stock market lost 90 % of its value. If, in 1928, $100,000 had been invested in the Dow, in 1938 the investment would have been worth only $10,000. If, however, that $100,000 had been invested in gold mining stocks, the investment would have increased to $1,000,000 by
1938. Gold is a hedge against inflation and deflation."

Well if you people would let drill for oil (sorry no we might scare the Caribou or spoil the beaches)(didn't stop the Mexicans from drilling in the gulf and taking it out). Or close the boarders (you are just racists) so that we can reduce the cost of the massive social programs (no keep bankrupt social security and do not give people the choice - they actually may make one)we might actually be able to produce a lot here in the good ole USA.

I think Bush actually did start this when he pulled the rug out from under Soros when he stopped supporting the strong dollar. (Cost big George $700M which is why Soros is so pissed at him - and you mindless wacho's are his minions - go figure)

But in the long run this is great for America. We are the most productive people on the planet and the weak dollar makes manufacturing in the US more viable - which increases the jobs here - and one of the reasons that we have 4% unemployment.

(remember "Bush lost us 2 million jobs?" - wrong we are 1 full % point better than Clintons "best economy in a decade" )

Wake up and starting thinking and start believing in America.

Well, if gold is a hedge against inflation and deflation, why isn't it hitting all time highs, all the time?

If you had invested $100,000 in gold in 1980, what would it be worth now? Something like $90,000 or so, this in a time of 5.2% annual inflation during the same period? Hope I'm not going too fast for you, but how can gold be a hedge against inflation, when it's not even keeping pace with inflation during my lifetime?

rising from $35 per ounce in 1972 to $850 per ounce in 1980, an increase of 2,428 % in just eight years

I rode that puppy from my high school days in 1975 through to about Christmas 1980 and then stepped off the hurricane. In grade 10, on the advice of a very senior looking grade 11 friend I bought a 2 ounce wafer and held on to it throughout. By university I had stocks in gold producers (Agnico Eagle was one I recall at the time I liked). I would sit in the back of whatever class I was in and pore over the finacial page of the Globe and Mail (Canada's financial newspaper of the day) and examine the slightest quiver in price changes it would convey.

I remember I missed the peak in gold prices and got out around $600+ somewhere - but clearly remember calling the broker around Christmas in my third year about my "portfolio" and subsequently liquidating.

He did well when some real money came my way.

Regards,
etc.

RR

I don't think you know how to separate the fundamentals from the noise. There has been a major sea change in sentiment within the past few years and you're trying to make a point with 1980 data.

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt)expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.
-Ludwig von Mises

I really have a problem with "weak-dollar" proponents and all the arguments they make about how good it is. What is the point of having a weak dollar, which in theory would attract foreigd direct investment, if everytime a foreign wants to buy something the congress goes into a xenophobic fit? Besides, having a weaker currency means having a lower standard of living

rising from $35 per ounce in 1972 to $850 per ounce in 1980, an increase of 2,428 % in just eight years

* * * *

Yep. Then it dropped down to under $300 in 1982, rebounded briefly, then trended down for the next 15 years or so. It's now at $740, something like that.

Which means that if gold is a good hedge against inflation, I guess we've had no inflation at all since 1980. Is that right? Or not?

Well, if gold is a hedge against inflation and deflation, why isn't it hitting all time highs, all the time?

Amateur sophism from someone who claims to be an expert in market timing. It's your money kid.

I never claimed to be an expert in market timing--that would be you. Gold is one of the worst long-term investments in history, but you're all in. THIS time it's different, you insist. Which is what I've read out of the goldbugs since I've been alive.

There is only one investment over the course of time that outpaces inflation, after taxes and maintenance charges. It isn't cash, obviously. Not short-term paper. Not bonds, after carrying charges and taxes, except at the most recent tax rates.

Not real estate, after property taxes and maintenance. And certainly not precious metals, which have the highest brokerage charges of all and the longest trendline of doing NOTHING. No, it's equities. If you could go back in time to almost any year in the last 200 and could invest your money in only one thing, I guarantee you it would be a stock. And if you could only invest in a certain class of investments, you'd pick a class of stocks--maybe not US equities, perhaps, but stocks.

I'm no smarter than anyone else. Which is why I don't make million-dollar bets against history. Good luck with yours.

Well, if gold is a hedge against inflation and deflation, why isn't it hitting all time highs, all the time?

Amateur sophism from someone who claims to be an expert in market timing. It's your money kid.

Posted by Ray
* * * *

By the way, you're the one who claimed that gold is a hedge against inflation, as well as against deflation. Now common sense should tell you that the dollar is always either losing value or gaining it. So my question merely begs itself: if whatever the dollar does causes gold to rise, why is it only $740 an ounce?

why is it only $740 an ounce?

I would guess that is because the price of gold doesn't fluctuate wildly like the dollar.

Paper money only has a fiat value, where as gold has a solid constant value.

Inflation is a hidden form of taxation created by the fiat federal reserve system.
Go back to the gold standard and kill inflation.

Wake the Fuck Up America!
George Carlin tell'n the truth.
video.google.com

Posted by JeffnDenmark

The problem is that some people get off on assuming the position. Most voters are into s&m and they want to be dominated.

Ron Paul on Federal Reserve, banking and economy
www.youtube.com

Posted by JeffnDenmark

That is what is happening now, bankers made bad business decicions and Daddy Federal Reverse is bailing them.

Greenspan was on Cabuto on Tuesday and he was talking about how campitalism triumphed over centrally planned economies and I was thinking about how ironic that statement was. We have a kind of centrally planed economy here when a group of people set interet rates. But the problem is that these people oftetimes get it wrong, whether on purpose or by accident.

Silver coins and strips of silver or gold in bills to the set value established by the government. Then, the money will always be worth its face value ... or more ...

Crazy dude, now I finally understand why all my smart former classmates in the tech biz have been buying up all those software packages for French, German, Italian and Dutch like hotcakes, and moving. When they move to a Eurozone country with a solvent economy like France or Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands or Italy, they earn their salary in Euros, they don't have to worry about their jobs being outsourced or being replaced by an H1-B scab from some cut-rate other nation, they make more money for more decent weekly hours, get to send their kids to strong public schools and just generally have a better quality of life.

Incidentally not one person is going to Britain, New Zealand or Australia (a couple to Canada but now unsure about the choice)-- those countries are in even worse shape than the USA as far as their debt, and many of them are also mired in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Congrats George W, you and your fellow idiots have managed to bring down the USA.

Although to be fair-- I'm a Democrat, for full disclosure purposes-- Bush has also had plenty of help from pseudo-Democrats like Hillary Clinton, who is also a big supporter of the war in Iraq, and also of the H1 visa program that's killing what's left of our tech industry. Way to go to you too, Hillary, you've also had a hand in pushing the self-destruct button.

Oh PS Hillary, none of us in my Democratic neighborhood will vote for you if you're nominated. (Hey, maybe you'll even thank us, since then President Giuliani with be stuck with the blame for the financial and geopolitical tsunami that's gonna strike the USA in 2009.) Maybe in 2012 we can then pick, oh, an actual Democrat to run on our ticket.

I am voting for Lawrence Mohr thank You very much

Larry

So with the dollar being so low now, does that not negate all the profits and increases in the stock market? I mean, if you had $100,000 US 5 years ago in stocks, and now they are worth $130,000 US, but $130,000 US isn't worth dog shit anymore, didn't you just in effect loose money (and pay capital gains taxes on your loss)?

Silver coins and strips of silver or gold in bills to the set value established by the government. Then, the money will always be worth its face value ... or more ..

The problem with that is there is not enough precious metal in the world to support an economy as large as the US.

One of the things that prolonged the Great Depression was lack of currency. There physically was not enough coin to grease the wheel.

Where was it all? Under people's mattresses, in rich folks vaults, buried in a coffee can, anywhere but in circulation.

Money is a con game, as in "confidence". As long as the money is believed to have value, it has value. When that goes away you get hyperinflation, as in Weimar Germany.

So with the dollar being so low now, does that not negate all the profits and increases in the stock market? I mean, if you had $100,000 US 5 years ago in stocks, and now they are worth $130,000 US, but $130,000 US isn't worth dog shit anymore, didn't you just in effect loose money (and pay capital gains taxes on your loss)?

Only if you are converting to a currency whose value has increased vs the dollar.

RE: Great Depression.

Among other factors, the Great Depression was caused by protectionist trade wars. The U.S. had a TRADE SURPLUS then and yet congress passed the Smoot Holly tariff, smart huh?

The Federal Reverse deepened the Great Depression, because the raised interest rates causinng a lack of liquidity. As as said in another post, a group of Fed Governors can't always get the economy right, and many times they get it wrong with catastrophic results.

Silver mentions, "The problem with that is there is not enough precious metal in the world to support an economy as large as the US."

That argument is specious. The only requirement is to remove the bullion from private ownership and place it into money or jewelery; along with other vital needs for the metals, and which purchase by private individuals or companies would be regulated.

"One of the things that prolonged the Great Depression was lack of currency. There physically was not enough coin to grease the wheel."

See above.

"Money is a con game, as in "confidence". As long as the money is believed to have value, it has value. When that goes away you get hyperinflation, as in Weimar Germany."

Not with the cold, silver or other precious metal in the bill or coin, itself. If someone wants to horde gold -- they will have to horde bills. Same with silver ... hold a lot of coins, or no silver at all. In that way, no one will be able to actually horde the bullion during times of economic difficulty and plus the bill or coin will always have its intrinsic value ... not determined by "trust".

ah....none of this really matters anyway....

for instance the only reason this thread is even here is because of the record day at the market this week......

we know it and everyone else does too....

Tad, could you say that again? Just once? I think I'm starting to wet myself. What a mensch!

I seem to remember an infaltionary era right after the Vietnam War which the Ford administration tried to combat with spiffy slogans like WIN. Then Jimmy Carter was elected and the Republicans have thus blamed him for the inflation that started under Nixon ever since.
I expect we will experience a similar era. WArs aren't free no matter what type of tricky bookkeeping the administration uses to keep the costs out of the budget.
The difference between today's and yesterday's inflation is that the corporate world will try to keep wages from rising even while inflation eats away at our buying power thus reducing labor costs and eliminating that pesky middle class.
No one should be naive enough to not realize that the big money has known exactly what has been coming and has manipulated every facet of the economy to give themselves opportunities to make billions while the working class stagnates.
It's called class war and it started with Ronnie Raygun. BTW, Ronnie wasn't on us working folk's side in case you hadn't guessed.

Boa asks, "Tad, could you say that again?"

Again! I love it! The incapable mock those who can reason their thoughts. They pretend that their effort at insult elevates themself above those who have been the ones to actually express themselves, on subject. It takes nothing more than a written snear and a snide one-liner to do so! Who needs education? Who needs experience? Who needs to think about a subject; any subject?

The only requirement is that you insult ('kill') the messenger and have others congratulate you on your fine retort and which put that upstart in their place ...

What a murder of mensch they are!

even while inflation eats away at our buying power

A few days ago you were hinting that the fed worried too much about inflation, Danni. Did you come to your senses?

The difference between today's and yesterday's inflation is that the corporate world will try to keep wages from rising even while inflation eats away at our buying power thus reducing labor costs and eliminating that pesky middle class.

Posted by danni

* * * *

Um, if labor costs are falling, where is all the inflation going to be coming from? Do you realize you're arguing for mutually exclusive things?

"So with the dollar being so low now, does that not negate all the profits and increases in the stock market? I mean, if you had $100,000 US 5 years ago in stocks, and now they are worth $130,000 US, but $130,000 US isn't worth dog shit anymore, didn't you just in effect loose money (and pay capital gains taxes on your loss)?"

Only if you are converting to a currency whose value has increased vs the dollar.

Posted by goatman

Conversely.... A significant source of my income comes from Europe which is converted by their banks/my credit union into dollars. Since Bush was elected while the foreign currency amounts have increased by about 10% the dollar value has increased by over 50% because of the dollar generally becoming worth shit abroad. I am vastly closer to cleanly poor than filthy rich so, try as they might, BushCo can't quite get a 100% success rate with their grand wealth transference schemes to the wealthy from the rest of us.

Needless to say, the personal profit I get from Bush's mismanagement of America does not persuade me that he is other than THE WORST FUCKING PRESIDENT EVER.

"The incapable mock those who can reason their thoughts. They pretend that their effort at insult elevates themself"

Ya gotta love the self-retorting retort.

GOATMAN I think I started realizing we already have too much inflation, it's just that somehow employers have managed to not reflect that inflation in wages. I think the FED should have worried about inflation several years ago but now to continue high interest rates will be too much of a shock to the economy. The lowering of interest rates may help alleviate a little of the foreclosure problem by helping some sell their property before foreclusure. I doubt though that even with the interest rates a little lower it will make much of a difference. We had a vaporizing of equity and that huge loss will take a while to be absorbed by the economy, I think hard times are on their way. I just don't know how hard. I do believe that the Bush economy will add to his legacy of failure.

.... A significant source of my income comes from Europe

I don't presume to know your portfolio, but if a significant source of your income comes from Europe, then as a wise investor, you should have a significant portion of your portfolio in European stocks, in which case, you are doing quite well. In fact, American investors with a well rounded portfolio will have some foreign stocks to hedge off a declining dollar.

the fed worried too much about inflation

The simple fact that the dollar is losing value (some of it programmed in) is in of itself an indicator of inflation. Naturally the stock market goes up because it now takes more dollars to by the same value.

What the fed is really worried about is the bubble that we live in. No solid basis for our currency, and tons of debt. If the Euro continues to gain acceptance as a reserve currency, even worse perhaps to become at least an alternative to the dollar as the exchange currency in the oil markets, then dollars will continue to fall--at some point even precipitously.

What we need is a stable rate of interest, say 3-4%, and let the markets adjust accordingly. This roller coaster monetary policy only feeds the arbitragers and day traders.

I think hard times are on their way

Today AAMOF, according to the chicken little prognosticators.

""you should have a significant portion of your portfolio in European stocks""

Bbbbbut, I thought European companies were all going broke because of wages and national health care systems, etc.
Seems here in the US we get the worst of all worlds...we don't get the benefits, we don't get the health care system, we don't get the job security, we don't get the wages.

Seems here in the US we get the worst of all worlds...we don't get the benefits, we don't get the health care system, we don't get the job security, we don't get the wages.


What benefits?
job security is not government guaranteed in Europe
Our wages are comparable to Europe.

And we don't get the excessive taxes.

""you should have a significant portion of your portfolio in European stocks""

"Bbbbbut, I thought European companies were all going broke because of wages and national health care systems, etc."

They are, that's why European governments subsidize thier industries so heavily. Those subsidies help boost the companies to profitability. So, in all essence, investors in European companies make much of thier profit off the European taxpayer.

but if a significant source of your income comes from Europe, then as a wise investor, you should have a significant portion of your portfolio in European stocks

The income is in the form of savings and pensions converted early to annuities, some in sterling, the rest in what is now Euros. As for investments, I have transferred about 95% of my portfolio which was in a mixture of large, medium cap and low-priced stock Fidelity funds into cash funds leaving a small amount in the low price one which is a closed fund that I don't want to be locked out of long-term. Some portion of all those funds was international and that's really as much exposure as I want internationally.

If any of this sounds like I know what I'm really doing, I don't. I've done this without any "professional" advice whatsoever. I just mistrust in my gut(I'm a bit like Chertoff, really!) what seems to me to be the current unstable state of the market and won't get back in for some time to come -- I saw the subprime thing coming a mile off and I'm no expert but come on, who could miss that. Naturally what I'm hoping for is some sort of major meltdown where I can jump back in somewhere near the bottom. Of course this is selfish but ....

I feel more peace of mind in this position which is worth more to me than any gains I might make by being in the market right now when I don't trust it.

Can the shrub do any more harm?

"And we don't get the excessive taxes."

Posted by goatman

I like to do comparisons between what we pay and get, and what they pay and get.

While we don't pay the "excessive" taxes as in the western Euro countries, we (Americans) pay more out of pocket.

Example is health care. They have socialized medicine and pay for coverage through the levy of higher taxes. We have a maze of corporate-based health insurance providers for which we pay varying rates for varying plans with varying co-pays. If you have a checkered health history and are not with a corporate plan, you will pay significantly higher rates and risk even being denied insurance (as happened to a friend, who, oddly enough, is an RN).

It's pretty much a wash. While the average Euro's home and car are not packed with techo gee-wizardy, gotta-have gadgetry, or useless blingage, in certain respects they seem to enjoy a higher quality of life. The US seems to be more focused on quantity of life.

Meanwhile, back on the front, a 7-year old currency conceived by an economic, quasi-political union of basically socialist countries is kicking the crap out of the US dollar globally. Which has the side effect of jacking my vacation plans considering I would have to pay over $100US for a single tank of in a small rental car (based on a 60-liter tank capacity).

The "excessive taxes in Europe" canard is always being trotted out by right-wingers in America implicitly suggesting that they are a bad thing and, of course, we here in America must not have them because it's bad and we're American and not like those socialists over there and in Canada. Socialists become Communists, when they are really all fired up about something or other from the usual menu of things they get all fired up about. As if there were no right-wingers in Europe and Canada who have adjusted to those systems and on the whole find them quite acceptable.

I've lived and worked in Britain, France and America and briefly in Germany and Ireland too. "Taxes" as far as I'm concerned is that portion of your income that is not available to you because it has gone "somewhere else". That place or function being something "basic" that you need to live in the manner to which you have become accustomed as a member of a Western democracy. Some systems take it up front, others are rather more deceptive about how, when and where they take it from you, but take it they all do.

Take what's euphemistically known as universal health care and compare it to what is euphemistically called managed care. What's the difference between being "taxed" for it and paying insurance premiums and having deductibles, copays and limits and exclusions of every conceivable kind. Or states with no state income tax. You should try their property tax rates and all the other exotic little "fees" they come up with when you think that makes them a great place to live.

The only thing that matters is the bottom line. Granted, our situation has been exacerbated by that moron in the White House but it seems to me that any so called superiority of the American system over others I've experienced is illusory in those terms. They are all about the same, currently I'd say it's better in Britain where I still get to quite a bit. That can be put right quite easily once we get rid of Bush and they get a right-wing government to fuck things up over there and they're about due for one sometime in the next five or six years.

LOL. We're the largest exporter in the world, right now.

Oh, lemme guess: you didn't know that, did you? Guess what else? We're also the world's largest manufacturer.

Posted by rightisright at 2007-09-20 07:09 PM | Reply

Well that would explain the massive trade SURPLUS we have been enjoying for the past 30 years.

Oh wait....

We are also the largest importer in the world as well and our import far outweigh our exports. Hmmm.....failed to leave that side out of the equation.

With the dollar dropping look for the trade deficit to grow as it will cost more $$$ to import and sell less $$$ to export.

didn't you just in effect loose money (and pay capital gains taxes on your loss)?

Only if you are converting to a currency whose value has increased vs the dollar.

Posted by goatman

Ahh, isnt that the point of the article!

Which is refected in every import you buy, including your oil!

I bet the shoes on your feet are made in China.

You Neocon loving Republicans really are full of sh!t. You say your for small government, lower taxation, yet support the federal reserves policys of a back door tax by printing billions of dollars in a way that devalues the incomes of Americans who need it most, those earning lower middle income wages cant just ride there savings inflation in the stock market because 98% percent of their income is not being converted to assets the way the wealthy does. It is class warfare, it is taxation to pay for big government payout to greasy corporations that is putting the average american in a shitty job. My neighbors used to build cars at the steel plant. Now they sell imports on the telephone.

Americas monatary system and manufacturing industry is being gutted. Jimmy Carter was the last president that actually seemed to give a fvck about the middle class.

Love That Bush !!!

Greenspan Was Right !!

-Sarge

With the dollar dropping look for the trade deficit to grow as it will cost more $$$ to import and sell less $$$ to export.

Posted by JimmyWallback
* * * *

You've got it backwards. A weaker dollar will lower the trade surplus, and increase the capital account: it will make foreign companies less competitive, but US assets more so.

""Guess what else? We're also the world's largest manufacturer.""

We manufacture hamburgers.

Ya gotta love Matt Drudge for covering this as if the Euro and Canadian dollar *ROSE* against the US dollar.

Just another closeted gay tool of the administration.

A guy with "weenie" in his name should be the last person talking about gays...

You've got it backwards. A weaker dollar will lower the trade surplus, and increase the capital account: it will make foreign companies less competitive, but US assets more so.

Yes eventually, after the rebalance. But initially, everything we buy from China will be more expensive and everything we sell will be cheaper.
So the trade deficit will likely rise. The only bright spots will be in aerospace and automotive.

But for all products not made in the US (electronics, textiles, anything plastic)
It won't go back down until US companies begin to bring factories back to the US from China.
But the dollar would have to hit rock bottom before any CEO will give up their communist slave wage workers to rehire Americans.

Ya gotta love Matt Drudge for covering this as if the Euro and Canadian dollar *ROSE* against the US dollar.

Both versions (dollar fell, euro rose) are equally correct since there is no absolute reference, not even gold as some would like to think. But only a partisian hack would make a statement like:

Just another closeted gay tool of the administration.

Bush & Cheney...


"Success, Success, Success !!!!"


The way we correct the problem now is gut Social Programs and get rid of Social Security.


"Success, Success, Success !!!!"

But only a partisian hack would make a statement like:

Just another closeted gay tool of the administration.

Posted by goatman at 2007-09-21 04:09 PM

I'm not a partisan hack and I would say that.

More results of the Republican suck ass policy..

I hate how these right wing snivelers claim they are Sooo Patriotic and then support either willingly, or through blind ignorance, the planned deconstruction of this nations economic soveriegnty through our international banking handlers.

Just read that the ECM banking system is worried that the euro is too strong - hurting exports which in turn hurts the workers when the products they manufacture do not sell overseas due to the higher costs.

Conversely, our products are now cheaper and that increases our products sales overseas.

The "excessive taxes in Europe" canard is always being trotted out by right-wingers in America implicitly suggesting that they are a bad thing... etc.

Posted by blueinbushland at 2007-09-21 11:41 AM

Well-said Blue. I've been living in Germany going on 12 years now, after 32 years in the US, and I think that gives me a decent perspective on the two systems. Over here, yes, initial taxes are higher than in the US, not nearly as high as you'd expect (except for gas, which is a pet-peeve of mine, but oh well) and all those little "extras" that Americans pay in order to pretend that they don't pay high taxes are MISSING over here. There are no exorbitant traffic fines, no huge co-pays, no oppressive property taxes, none of that crap. What you see is what you get, and it all goes into a very well organized pot with plenty of oversight. In the US, it's a game of grab what you can and do your best to pass the buck onto someone else. And in the end Americans probably lose MORE (just guessing here) of their income than Europeans, or at least Germans, do.

And here's the crux of the bisquit. In the US, the money that you lose is basically thrown away. You get essentially NOTHING for it. The infrastructure sucks, health care sucks and schools suck. Because the system is so haphazard, filled with people sticking their fingers in the leaky dyke and looking for sneaky ways to get around the politician's mantras of low-taxes. It all sucks, basically. But you get to feel all cozy and warm in your red white and blue boxer shorts and your 23 hours of daily commercials on TV and your POS cars that nobody else in the world really wants regardless of how third-world low the dollar sinks.

Um, if labor costs are falling, where is all the inflation going to be coming from?

Well, if you are the schooled individual you say you are in business and present yourself to know a little about the economy why don't you know that Labor has not effected inflation since the early 80s.

In fact, inflation has help raise wages, inflation is the only thing that has kept the wages from being any lower.

But than again, I thought you said you went to great educational institutions.

Why not stop the bull shitting for once for you far right support and actually start conversing in things you know.

Um, if labor costs are falling, where is all the inflation going to be coming from?

I just have to comment on this again for how stupid a statement.

Well, prices raising for major record profits these last 6 years for one.

Printing endless supply of money for war and foriegn trade for another by keeping the interest rate down.

Off shoring labor will reducing available jobs deflating wages.

But you go guru boy, you seem to know so much about the economy and inflation.

In fact the declining dollar has nothing to do with inflation ....... right?