Proof that the program works....

It's proof of nothinbg than they got lucky-there is no eveidence that any eavesdropping helped in the investigation-only the CLAIM-there's a really BIG difference.

Of course eavesdropping works. Parents have been doing it for some time I'm sure.

Some goofball was on here the other day writing about how he wears sandals to airports, ... whining about fear and his rights violations.

People don't even realize how good they've got it.

"It's proof of nothinbg than they got lucky-there is no eveidence that any eavesdropping helped in the investigation-only the CLAIM-there's a really BIG difference."

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Well that didn't take long. And it was Frank55, no less. Go figure.

You don't like the message. I get it. And now the sources are no good. We get it.

Two kinds of people ask questions: those looking for answers and those looking for a fight.

Eavesdropping working or not working is not the issue.

It's WHO is being eavesdropped upon, and IS there any oversight?

WHile I understand your argument Alex, I don't fully agree, there are times when oversight kills the element of surprise. Whats the old saying loose lips sink ships. look at the existing programs that were being used and how many "Whistle Blowers" told the whole world how we were fighting terrorism...

In reality they released classified information that put programs designed to counter terrorism at great risk or closed them altogether.

Are you so afraid of a violation of your rights? I'm pretty happy that my family, and my country is safe. And I'm pretty sure the goverment isn't going to destoy my rights. But the Left is worried about....

Army- You can get a warrant 72 hours after the fact with eavesdropping. If that somehow ruins the element of surprise or isn't "fast enough"(since the court meets in secret!) then our nation is being run by complete morons.

10 years ago conservatives were railing against this, saying it violated the constitution and was bad because the "court" meetings(go to a judges HOUSE)were secret.

Ah how things change when a new party is in power. Now even FISA isn't good enough for these people. If Hillary or any dem is president next, you can bet republicans will be pro-FISA again...

Let me reiterate:

72 hours AFTER the fact. Any argument that this isn't "fast" or "secret" or "flexible" is simply bovine feces and y'all know it.

I am afraid of completely illogical and unnecessary violations of constitutional rights, and that's what ignoring FISA is. What more does the govt need? A time machine? Something out of "minority report" that can predict crimes in advance of the person even doing them?

The govt can spy right away and don't have to even ask permission until THREE DAYS LATER FOR CHRIST SAKE! And that isn't enough for W?

I'm pretty happy that my family, and my country is safe. And I'm pretty sure the goverment isn't going to destoy my rights.

Sounds like you're not too good and figuring out which way the wind blows. Remind me not to hire you to assess anything beyond...well, anything.

What are you afraid of Alexandrite, and why do you care? This country has been safe since 9/11, and all you do is bitch? And you would be the first to blame Bush if we have another incident.

What are you afraid of Alexandrite, and why do you care? This country has been safe since 9/11, and all you do is bitch? And you would be the first to blame Bush if we have another incident.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-09-11 08:57 PM | Reply

Those that give up esential Liberty for some Temprary security deserve neither Liberty NOR Security and will have lost both in the process.

Larry

Remind me not to hire you to assess anything beyond...well, anything.

Posted by DB_Cooper

Remind me to consider you an ungratefull partisian hack.

So was the country safe after the 94 WTC bombing because of things Clinton did, WISGOD? We didn't get attacked for seven years.

Or are you just full of it?

using the NSA to spy on god damn motherfucking quakers isn't going to stop another 9/11. It's a waste of time, money, and manpower. Sorry, but your instant genuflection to a govt of morons out of control makes me angry, especially given all the evidence in the last few decades of how totally insane, inept, and corrupt our govt actually is.

Get off your knees.

This country has been safe since 9/11

Are you really listening to what the real threats to the American republic appear to be? Even Colin Powell is willing to say publically now that terrorism isn't America's greatest threat. If he's now Swiftboat material too just for speaking frankly about the country he has spent a lifetime serving then you are merely being partisan.

You might want to fold that Bush flag and take a look at what you really love about the country. Be sure it isn't all tied up in one man. The country is greater than "W".

Regards,
etc.

"This country has been safe since 9/11"

The only time this country wasn't safe prior to 9/11, the Clinton Administration issued warrants for, apprehended, tried, convicted, and slapped into jail the culprits.

That's a good deal more than has happened since Bush fell asleep at the switch.

Oh, right, he attacked Al Qaeda by invading Iraq.

Where's Osama?

LOL

What are you afraid of Alexandrite

My government. They are doing more damage to my country than Al Qaeda ever could. And all in the name of saving us from terrorists that could only dream we would be this stupid.

So was the country safe after the 94 WTC bombing because of things Clinton did, WISGOD?

What did he and Madelaine do? Thank the good lord that the Tower basement took the hit? Don't even go there. The survivours of the USS Cole should kick your ass.

"Remind me to consider you an ungratefull partisian hack."

As a partisan hack loser, what you consider about anything is of no significance to anyone other than yourself, and in that instance case it's a case of unwarranted, misplaced, and wildly inflated self-esteem.

When you feel like playing with the adults, show a driver's license that'll allow you entry.

LOL

"What did he and Madelaine do?"

Ask Ramzi and the blind sheikh, retard.

Douche Bag Cooper, great retort, hack. You want to debate, or...

I was talking about attacks on our soil, WISGOD.

If you want to count overseas attacks now, then W hasn't prevented those either. In fact, they've gone up since our invasion of iraq. (I mean elsewhere in the world other than Iraq obviously)

So Albright and Clinton did nothing? The country was "safe" for 7 years and they didn't have to rape FISA,r spy on Quakers, or detain people in the hundreds indefinately with no lawyers, or have secret black site prisons to do it?

You can't argue or logic your way out of a wet paper bag, WISGOD. Thanks for not being on my side of this issue, I really appreciate it.

Debate?

You've been getting your ass kicked up and down this thread.

What's to debate, loser?

LOL

What's to debate, loser?

LOL

Posted by DB_Cooper

OK, I guess you win, Liberal Hack. Now, moveon.org

The survivors of 9/11 should kick your lockstepping ass.

My president beat your president: He lost 3,000 people in one day to Al Qaeda. He wins the prize. Hooray!
Wisgawd

The survivors of 9/11 should kick your lockstepping ass.

Posted by DB_Cooper


BWaaaaWHAAAA! ASk them. I don't think they would even wish what happened to a moveon.org hack like you.

3,000 died on Bush's watch.

Dispute it.

Can't?

Pity.

Alexandrite I hate I really do hate to correct You but the USSCole IS US Soil. It should be considered no different than the soil out back of Your abode.

Larry

Sure eavesdropping prevents "terrorism "

And the death penalty has virtually wiped out murder. And banning condoms from sex education classes has just about wiped out teen pregnancy. herm

So are Embassy's, but that is on the 4th grade agenda for Alex, and Douche Bag Cooper.

3,000 died on Bush's watch - on 9/11

Since then 3700 Americans and 500,000 others have died on Bush's watch

See how effective he is?

Wait for Thursday night and he will say not "Another six months" but "Another 17 months until I am home on the ranch, hey hey"

How about three cheers for "THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER"?

There should be oversight on this program. But, can you trust Congress? They leak everything from both sides. At the same time there are thousands if not hundreds of thousand of foreign contacts every hour. how do you do the paperwork or request constantly?

"So out of concern for 60 Delta Force operators and SEALS who are ready and eager to perform the mission, we lose thousands of people in the World Trade Center. It is a disgrace!"

Revisionist crap. This author wants to bash Clinton for not being clairvoyant, yet gives Bush a pass for purposely ignoring bin Laden for over seven and a half months, despite being told he was the biggest threat to America.

So are Embassy's, but that is on the 4th grade agenda for Alex, and Douche Bag Cooper.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-09-11 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

If that's the case then W isn't "protecting us" as you said. We still have those attacks.

Look, you can't have it both ways, WISGOD. You can't say bush is keeping attacks away(alluding to US oil ones) and then say that embassies count as US soil too...BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL BEING ATTACKED, and you just contradicted your first statement.

This is why I said you can't argue or debate, dude. You just stepped on your own dick and didn't even realize it.

Roy- BILL CLINTON IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR 911.

What was the year for 9-11 again? Refresh my memory.

Wisgawd, I'm not the stooge supporting a guy on whose watch the worst terrorist attack in US history---with a bodycount greater than Pearl Harbor's---took place.

When did the DOJ seek an indictment of OBL for 9/11?

Pathetic.

Clinton's DOJ indicted, apprehended (wow!), and convicted (double-wow!) Ramzi and the blind sheikh.

OBL?

Clerical error?

ROTFLMAO

DB- The last time i checked the website for the FBI's most wanted list...they hadn't updated Osama's crimes since the late 90's. Nothing on there about 9-11.

Our tax dollars at work.

RoyClemmer-
re: the people ofthe world, and particularly this country, have no clue to what really caused this tragedy. Bill Clinton's blatant offensiveness, as a representative of the free world provoked the Muslims into attacking that which offends them so much... The decadence of the West. Do your homework...

You just blamed the terrorist attacks of 9/11 on "the decadence of the West" in general, and on Bill Clinton's "decadence" in particular. What, did you not get a call-back on your application to join al Qaeda?

RoyClemmer-
Bill Clinton's blatant offensiveness, as a representative of the free world provoked the Muslims into attacking...The decadence of the West....Because of the above facts, I believe that Bill Clinton is fully responsible for the attacks on September 11th and the deaths of 3000+ people, including the cost to the taxpayers for the war on terrorism....Don't want to believe me? Read Dick Morris's book....

Oh, I believe you REALLY mean what you say, Roy.

You believe that Bill Clinton caused the attacks of 9/11 because he got a blowjob.

Mmmkay

I just have to see this again, Roy:

Bill Clinton's blatant offensiveness, as a representative of the free world provoked the Muslims into attacking that which offends them so much... The decadence of the West...

Thanks "Roy"

Personally, I blame Lincoln for 9-11.

Look, you can't have it both ways, WISGOD. You can't say bush is keeping attacks away(alluding to US oil ones) and then say that embassies count as US soil too...BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL BEING ATTACKED, and you just contradicted your first statement.
Posted by Alexandrite

And how many on Clinton's watch, and how many on W's. Your problem is that you seem to think you handed Bill the soap to wash his hands.

Alexandrite-
I, like RoyClemmer, blame our deviation from Sharia law.

Wisgod-
Terrorists attacks have increased since we invaded Iraq, but it's probably due to Clinton' s BJ, as Roy has stated.

Our study yields one resounding finding: The rate of fatal terrorist attacks around the world by jihadist groups, and the number of people killed in those attacks, increased dramatically after the invasion of Iraq. Globally there was a 607 percent rise in the average yearly incidence of attacks (28.3 attacks per year before and 199.8 after) and a 237 percent rise in the fatality rate (from 501 to 1,689 deaths per year). A large part of this rise occurred in Iraq, the scene of almost half the global total of jihadist terrorist attacks. But even excluding Iraq and Afghanistan--the other current jihadist hot spot--there has been a 35 percent rise in the number of attacks, with a 12 percent rise in fatalities.

Contrary to Bush's assertion, jihadists have not let the Iraq War distract them from targeting the United States and its allies. The rate of attacks on Western interests and citizens has risen by almost 25 percent, while the yearly fatality rate has increased by 4 percent, a figure that would have been higher had planned attacks, such as the London airline plot, not been prevented.

1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
April 19, Oklahoma City: car bomb exploded outside federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort. Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly 2 years earlier. (See Miscellaneous Disasters.)
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)
2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.
2003
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.
2004
May 2931, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 1119, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.
2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: Suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.
2006
Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy was foiled.
2007
Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy was fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries.

Larry

I'll give bill credit for one more thing(shudder)

His sexual perversions didn't run counter to his own bills. Ie- he fucked a woman, not a man while passing anti-gay legislation.
OK...he fucked a fat ugly woman, but at least it wasn't in a bathroom and no crystal meth or $20 undercover cops were involved.

Don't worry, Wisgod. You'll get your global conflagration, and you'll probably get your war with Iran (you, of course, won't be at risk). But I do wonder how many soldiers will die from the arms illegally sold to Iran by Ollie North and Reagan - true patriots, both. And all because Clinton got a BJ and it angered the more right-thinking folk of Islam...(see RoyClemmer's posts)

Alex gives up, "WISGOD- Since the invasion of iraq...fatal jihadist attacks worldwide have gone up 607%"

I'm disappointed, and since I was hoping for more like 75-85% of these cretin human sacrificers to reveal themselves; put themselves in the "field" so to speak!

Unlike the craven appearance in the face of danger you present, many Americans are still assured that our way of life is the best and that our rule of law, under our constitution, is the finest guarantee of freedom and liberty in this world, in this reality, and compared to Islamic theocratic Sharia.

In what way do you consider it wise to admit defeat in the face of human sacrifice to advance theocratic rule in the ME, if not the entire world?

BTW, I notice that you have picked up 5 more votes from Leftist/Democratics who agreee with your nazi-like effort to dehumanize a fellow American, and in support of the victory of Islam and the Democratic party.

Who needs a coherent foreign policy, cooper? The rapture is coming!

Roy is Niceville.

Which reminds me of a niceville post from PWZ:

"niceville said...
I pray for Rush because I know what it is like to be hooked on drugs and attracted to gay sex. He needs to come to Jesus and use his skills to witness his rebirth.
1:12 PM EDT"

Tadowe-
Tell that to "RoyClemmer"-

Bill Clinton's blatant offensiveness, as a representative of the free world provoked the Muslims into attacking...The decadence of the West....Because of the above facts, I believe that Bill Clinton is fully responsible for the attacks on September 11th and the deaths of 3000+ people, including the cost to the taxpayers for the war on terrorism....Don't want to believe me? Read Dick Morris's book....

BTW, I notice that you have picked up 5 more votes from Leftist/Democratics who agreee with your nazi-like effort to dehumanize a fellow American

Sorry, the word 'traitor' is still ringing 500 times in my ears from our last conversation...could you please repeat that? Oh, my other ear is picking up all the times you called me Goebbles.

Playing victim means you cannot punch people in the junk every two seconds, tad.

Danforth- How do you know that wasn't a spoof? PWZ had a problem with that like the retort did.

It's not that I think you're a liar, but what proof do you have that it's actually niceville who said that?

It should be clear to anyone who has unfortunately read any of Tadowe's posts that Tadowe is a zealot, and he can't call global religious war soon enough.

He pretends to be a patriot, but his allegiance lies elsewhere - somewhere in the netherworld of absolute hatred and genocidal wrath.

Cooper, I found this by accident from the britney page. Tadowe is RATIONAL because he's blasting a right winger, so there's no "patriotism" insults. He's almost likable.

It was on workbench and his opponent was LZK/Armella.

Not looking for it.

In short, Tadowe believes that Islam should be erased from the planet.

Many of you may agree, but regardless of where you may stand on genocide it seems important to point out that that is Tadowe's position.

Gotta go.

Enjoy all

In short, Tadowe believes that Islam should be erased from the planet.

Many of you may agree, but regardless of where you may stand on genocide it seems important to point out that that is Tadowe's position.

Posted by Cooper

"In short, Tadowe believes that Islam should be erased from the planet" Where did he say that?

Dalton asks:

Where did he say that?


He didn't.

Cooper? "Many of you may agree, but regardless of where you may stand on genocide it seems important to point out that that is Tadowe's position"

Cooper?

Jeff- I think it's pretty obvious where one stands if they are pointing out that another poster wished religious genocide to come.

Tadowe HAS often said that war is coming and that muslims will lose.

Cooper has known tadowe for a long time. Many years. So he can recall some earlier conversations you were not around for dalton. I remember some of them as well.

"He pretends to be a patriot, but his allegiance lies elsewhere - somewhere in the netherworld of absolute hatred and genocidal wrath"

Cooper you are one smart sob. The fact that you can put words into people's mouth and then interpret them is impressive. How do you know so much?

so Cooper is someone else? Changing names?

Dalton- Let's post to each for 4 years. I think you'll understand me enough by then to make comments like that.

OK I'm gonna let cooper defend himself now. He's capable.

Why? Who the hell is Dalton?

Alex, I appreciate that. I have been here for some time. I don't get to post a lot b/c I have children that need my attention to homework, bed, and supper. But, I know that Cooper is Boyd and he has a history of putting words in people's mouth and that is why you are going to allow him to defend himself?

recent quotes from Tadowe, part I-

It is plain to see that Leftist/Democratics are intent on losing to that evil, that bloody and inhuman sacrifice of men, women and children to advance an evil god and a blasphemer prophet!

What does that have to do w/ wiping out a religion?

Now, Dalton, I can't imagine how that quote from Tadowe could be interpreted as somehow antagonistic towards an entire religion, so I'll dive down a few hours for more...stay tuned.

"In short, Tadowe believes that Islam should be erased from the planet." Cooper?

Just words in people's mouth right?

You have gone from ""In short, Tadowe believes that Islam should be erased from the planet." To "antagonistic" that is quite a stretch.

Can't wait until the great Pinche Mao shows up to put you assholes in your place!

Can't wait until the great Pinche Mao shows up to put you assholes in your place!

Posted by JEFF_J

Cooper quotes TADOWE, "It is plain to see that Leftist/Democratics are intent on losing to that evil, that bloody and inhuman sacrifice of men, women and children to advance an evil god and a blasphemer prophet!"

Thanks, Cooper, you're my BUD!

Well, just more stuff like this: The cowards of Islam are too busy hiding behind their women and children, or running to the mosque for protection, to conduct any sort of war. So, they let blood on the altar of Allah in order to dictate their goatherder's will on the rest of humanity ..., and how Alexandrite is like Goebbels, and how Islam is evil.

But you got me. I can only find where Tadowe states over and over that Islam's god is evil, has a false prophet, and must be ...

Cooper, if a prophet/religion calls for the destruction of all people who refuse to kneel to their religion... Is that evil? Or are you going to defend that type of thought?

I can't imagine how I made the leap from one claiming that an entire religion was evil and lead by a "blasphemer prophet" to that person's desire to exterminate those "animals", but I sure did.

It should, jeff, but maybe you should try flowers.

Dalton-
re: Cooper, if a prophet/religion calls for the destruction of all people who refuse to kneel to their religion... Is that evil?

Sure it is. Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live...

"...bloody and inhuman sacrifice of men, women and children to advance an evil god and a blasphemer prophet!...

Nothin' scary about that kind of talk. I don't recall the Nazi's saying that Jews should be exterminated either; they just talked about them as vermin who were tribal, worshipped the wrong god, killed Jesus, and were taking over.

Cooper,


How would you characterize the level of threat (or lack of threat) that Islamic extremists pose to the US in the short-term AND long-term?


PS - I am quite confident that Tadowe is referring to the extremist element and not ALL Muslims in his posts that you've reproduced.

Jeff says, "PS - I am quite confident that Tadowe is referring to the extremist element and not ALL Muslims in his posts that you've reproduced."

Really, Jeff, I would prefer that you not reply on my behalf. Could you do that for me, at the least?

I mean: ALL MUSLIMS who have not made frequent accusations of heresy against those who pervert, defile Islam with their use of human sacrifice!

The Sufi do it, the B'hai so criticize this evil ...

... but not the mullahs of shi'ite or sunni sects ... not any wahabi fanatic (in their world domination genocidal goals) ...

They are supporters of human sacrifice in their silence, and along with the Leftist/Democratic traitors who demand defeat in Iraq for partisn political gain ... political terrorist (sucker fish) benefitting from terror and the rule of terror ...

Scumsucking traitors ...

Really, Jeff, I would prefer that you not reply on my behalf. Could you do that for me, at the least?


No problem.

Cooper what about the words ..." He pretends to be a patriot, but his allegiance lies elsewhere - somewhere in the netherworld of absolute hatred and genocidal wrath"

Are you questionining whether he is a patriot? The very thing I have seen you change your name over!

"Nazi's" blah blah blah... you have no argument.

I mean: ALL MUSLIMS who have not made frequent accusations of heresy against those who pervert, defile Islam with their use of human sacrifice!

The Sufi do it, the B'hai so criticize this evil ...


Have you seen the recent documentary Islam vs. Islamists?

I caught most of it (I missed the first 20 minutes or so) and it really does a good job of illustrating the distinction (within Islam) that you are alluding to.

I mean: ALL MUSLIMS who have not made frequent accusations of heresy against those who pervert, defile Islam with their use of human sacrifice!

Case in point.

Which is why Tadowe feels free to refer to ALL MUSLIMS as "subhuman" and "evil" lead by a "false prophet".

I, too, would appreciate it if you wouldn't pretend to speak for Tadowe, Jeff.

Cooper,


How disingenuous can you get?



PS - I asked you a straightforward question about a half an hour ago - response?

JeffJ-
re:They are supporters of human sacrifice in their silence, and along with the Leftist/Democratic traitors who demand defeat in Iraq for partisn political gain ... political terrorist (sucker fish) benefitting from terror and the rule of terror ...

Scumsucking traitors ...

The difference between Tadowe's statements and your kennel-logical tampon jokes is that Tadowe is that certifiable lunatic who wishes the world be cleansed of all non-Tadowe. You seem to be a sane person who digs the locker-room banter and butt-slapping -- purely heterosexual, of course -- fun of a clubhouse.

Jeff-
I missed the "straightforward" question. What was it?

Oh. Was it this?

Cooper,


How would you characterize the level of threat (or lack of threat) that Islamic extremists pose to the US in the short-term AND long-term?


PS - I am quite confident that Tadowe is referring to the extremist element and not ALL Muslims in his posts that you've reproduced.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-09-12 12:10 AM | Reply

Are you still "quite confident" about the question?

You seem to be a sane person who digs the locker-room banter and butt-slapping -- purely heterosexual, of course -- fun of a clubhouse.


That is fairly accurate.


I missed the "straightforward" question. What was it?


Here it is:

Cooper,


How would you characterize the level of threat (or lack of threat) that Islamic extremists pose to the US in the short-term AND long-term

Really, Jeff, I would prefer that you not reply on my behalf. Could you do that for me, at the least?


No problem.

Well, it seems as if Tadowe didn't see your bared throat as appetizing. Perhaps he sniffed that you were, if not a Jew, at least a Christian.

JeffJ-
I think it is a threat. I think it's more of a threat since 9/11, and I think that if lunatics such as Tadowe succeed in attacking Iran we'll manage to radicalize 70 million Iranians who might otherwise not fall for Achhhhhhmadinejad's desire for his population to abandon the struggle for democracy and unite behind him and a desire to protect themselves from the Tadowes.

Cooper,


Thanks for answering my question.

Got to stop being a Bully Yourself if You want to stop being attacked.

Larry

JeffJ-
I had the displeasure of listening to a conversation between to men who had no chance of actually serving, and who had no children who had any real chance of serving.

The conversation was between Newt Gingrich and Sean Hannity. The spoke eagerly of their desire to bomb the major refineries in Iran. They thought that it would energize the forces of democracy, as well as getting their own vicarious rocks off!!

Idiots.

Right Wingers love attacking people that haven't attacked them first. They thrive upon that. Then the fuckers bitch and moan when they get pissed and retaliate.

Larry

Coop,


had the displeasure of listening to a conversation between to men who had no chance of actually serving, and who had no children who had any real chance of serving.

The conversation was between Newt Gingrich and Sean Hannity. The spoke eagerly of their desire to bomb the major refineries in Iran.


I missed that one.

I have listened to Hannity interview Gingrich on a few occasions, but I don't recall that particular discussion.

JeffJ-
It was today. Gingrich mentioned that "we" could cripple Iran with a strike on their major refinery, and then suggested that this would actually help the nascent democratic movement in Iran.

We've become a nation of Tadowes, with the exception that Tadowe - while defensive when challenged - knows what he is saying, and these people do not.

Here's a fun fact, JeffJ...wait ...first a quiz:

What percentage of Republicans do you think believe that Saddam was "personally involved" in 9/11?

What percentage of Republicans do you think believe that Saddam was "personally involved" in 9/11?


Well, since the ultimate horse's mouth, Bush, has said, unequivicably, that Saddam wasn't behind 9-11....



Now, some connections have been made (rightfully so) between a degree of cooperation between Saddam and Al Queada prior to 9-11.

Jeff J-
Such as?

From your source, Cooper:

"Do you think Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11th, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon?"

.

Yes No Unsure
% % %
ALL adults 33 58 9
Republicans 40 51 9
Democrats 27 63 10
Independent 32 60 8

I'd really like to get to the crux of this "cooperation between Saddam and Al Queada prior to 9-11.

Thanks for lookin' that up, and proving what I typed.

Now, if you could establish something kinda like "cooperation between Saddam and Al Queada prior to 9-11", I'd be in heaven.

I'd really like to get to the crux of this....


A tentative relationship was formed - nothing more


It is what it is.

Oops.

Meant to say, "A tentative relationship was formed, if that."


A tentative relationship was explored is a more accurate characterization.

Jeff-
Gee, would you care to parse a bit more...maybe choose your words better? I'd hate to pin you down on something that was just a typo...

"Because we could understand it, we could help our partners through a long process of monitoring and observation, realizing that the perpetrators had actually obtained explosive liquids, hydrogen peroxide, which they would condense, or try to condense to an explosive," Mr. McConnell said.

Which they could? Or try to?

Which is it?

Nothing but rhetoric here to justify a civil rights violation.

Eavesdropping without constitutional law is nothing but a violation in true protection of its citizens.

Anyone who thinks different is doing and showing nothing but total ignorance.

The Hoover years proved this to be te case and now you few are trying to regress our country back to those trying times.

Is this what you intend to stand by:

A. A tentative relationship was explored is a more accurate characterization.

Or...

B. Now, some connections have been made (rightfully so) between a degree of cooperation between Saddam and Al Queada prior to 9-11.


Got a preference?

So, was there "cooperation" which the 9/11 Report flatly disputes, or was there...um...well they are both arabs and kinda brown...

More importantly, if nothing but for my own edification, do you think that Saddam was "personally involved" in the attacks on 9/11?

Cooper,


Jeff-
Gee, would you care to parse a bit more...maybe choose your words better? I'd hate to pin you down on something that was just a typo...


It's very late here in Michigan and I've got to hit the hay.


If your query is genuine, broach this subject with me again (after work hours as my source materials are at home, not at work) and I'll provide the context you are requesting.


Until then.....

It is very clear that the neocon-empirialist are not well educated and lack common practical sense.

The justify the war deaths by comparing them with our country's car accident deaths but are willing to sacrifice our constitutional civil laws with fewer deaths involved then the flu.

Soon the terrorists won't be the enemy, our own government will be.

JeffJ-
You have provided a great service. When I read that 40% stat I just assumed that these people were idiots. But you have provided the context. I know that you are not an idiot, but so consumed with and by the currents of an ideology that you can convince yourself of anything.

Thank you. It'll come in handy when you pretend that the world's leading scientists never considered irradiation from the Sun in climate projection - so it's not a total loss.

A tentative relationship was explored is a more accurate characterization.

Meaning you have crap, as I could say that about the US and USSR during the height of the Cold War and back it up with more convincing arguments and evidence.

Are you so afraid of a violation of your rights? I'm pretty happy that my family, and my country is safe.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-09-11 08:43 PM

that is because you are a retard...retards are generally happy no matter what.

You and your country are not any safer today and in fact is less safe.

You are living in a fantasy world.

"In what way do you consider it wise to admit defeat in the face of human sacrifice to advance theocratic rule in the ME, if not the entire world?"

Tadpole foolishly tries to distort the Democratic position once again!

No one is admitting defeat in a fake war that was perpatrated by a corrupt Republican regime.

It is not defeat to admit to a mistake.

Our stated goal in entering Iraq was regime change (CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT TO OCCUR HERE IN AMERICA) and we have accommplished that goal.

Mission Accomplished!

Now begin the withdrawal.

That does not mean surrender- it means do whatever we have to do to get out.

As long as there are radicals out there that want to kill americans we will never be "safe".

However, the amount of intel we have gathered through operations such as this gives us a better global picture of who we are dealing with and gives us a broader list of people we need to pay special attention to...

nothing wrong with intelligence gathering Army..

We have been gathering Intell for decades. Bur we did in accordance with the law of the land.

So it is about following our own laws and protecting the Constitution while we gather that intelligence.

Every time this President violates the law (and he HAS violated the law) he weakens the Constitution and he violates his own oath of office in which he swore to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America.

SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

If he has violated teh LAW Donner then why have there been no charges brought, why have there been NO IMPEACHEMNT hearings.

The law is open for interpretation. Look at how the freedom of speech laws have been perverted over the years. Hell anytime the ACLU can defend NAMBLA as free speech we know the law has been perverted...

You guys - you are so concerned about BUSH you do not even pay attention that the listening saved the lives of potentially hundreds of people. There is a facist groups (Al Queda and IRAN ) that are trying to kill us - but you are more concern at attacking BUSH (that will be gone in a year) that save your uncle or neighbor....If you are not doing something wrong..what do you have to worry about?

Army don't be stupid ... he violated the law.

"The President's shocking admission that he authorized the National Security Agency to spy on American citizens, without going to a court and in violation of the Constitution and laws passed by Congress, further demonstrates the urgent need for these protections. The President believes that he has the power to override the laws that Congress has passed. This is not how our democratic system of government works. The President does not get to pick and choose which laws he wants to follow. He is a president, not a king."

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) in response to President Bush's admission ....that the president personally authorized wiretaps of individuals who emailed or phoned other countries.

If you are not doing something wrong..what do you have to worry about?

Posted by foshaffer at 2007-09-12 04:13 PM

retard

As an American it is my duty to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

If Bush continues to weaken the Constitution then Bush is an enemy of the Constitution.

foshaffer- you keep your blinders on and refuse to see why there are people willing to die to attack America. You just keep believing that the only way to do defend America is to become like them.

The "war" will go on forever with that kind of thinking. They are not all evil and they are not all out to kill us.

-maybe they are all out to kill you though

Donner, again thats fine in print but then why have no charges been brought up. Could it be that because of loopholes he actually never broke the law.

If he had done so he would have been impeached by now. He hasn't no charges have been brought. You probably believe 9-11 was an inside job as well don't you...

"Because we could understand it, we could help our partners through a long process of monitoring and observation, realizing that the perpetrators had actually obtained explosive liquids, hydrogen peroxide, which they would condense, or try to condense to an explosive," Mr. McConnell said.

They don't seemed to know which peroxide they have yet the eavesdropping caugt the terrorists.

Now that they are caught, why is it they still don't know which type of peroxide they have?

Maybe this fabricated story is not as terroristic as they are making it out to be.

"Intel Chief: Eavesdropping Caught German Plotters"

or... not...

"In a new embarrassment for the Bush administration top spymaster, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell is withdrawing an assertion he made to Congress this week that a recently passed electronic-surveillance law helped U.S. authorities foil a major terror plot in Germany."

Please, please spoon feed us more koolaid!

Sincerely,

The Right

The effect of an ideological imperative on rational thought, and the establishment of unreasonable priorities, is evident in the comments of those who would elect to have death and mayhem occurring as preferable to eavesdropping on conversations of those intent on doing them harm.

If this is not indicative of insanity, then insanity requires redefinition.

What's the new leftist motto, "Better dead than heard." It once was "Better red than dead." Those are both inanities. But leave it to the left to reduce its "ideas" to bumper sticker expressions. their declarations are best left unexamined by them, since if they are analyzed they represent mindless expressions which defy comprehension.

Paranoia is a difficult ailment to forsake. It provides protection against amorphous threats, which give rise to anxiety. Anxiety is very difficult for people to endure. It's preferable to crystallize an "enemy," even if the concept represents a figment of an imagination rather than demonstrable fact. Check DSM-V for paranoid and schizophrenic. Then identify with the definition and declare your self-esteem increased as someone has seen fit to describe you.

Come on, compose a composition in fifty or so words as to why you reject attempts to eavesdrop on conversations. What if only one massive attack were interdicted as a result of the practice. Let us all know why preventing such damage is less important than avoiding eavesdropping. What's the consequence of eavesdropping - in real terms - that you find so objectionable?

You folks do realize that "the law" is pragmatic and is reinterpreted to enable this country to function.

Oh,I forgot. You folks pride yourselves on being irrational and emotional rather than responding to concerns that are real. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Alas! Alack! It's probably worse to lose your mind. Let us know.

Johnson,

Now all that double talk saying absolutely nothing is fun to read, what are you really trying to say?

Proof that the program works....

Posted by armyof1 at 2007-09-11 08:10 PM

Proof That You Are A "TOOL", Stop Being A Kool-Aid Drinker !!!! He And The "ENTIRE" Administration Are Liars !!!

-Sarge

You folks do realize that "the law" is pragmatic and is reinterpreted to enable this country to function.

So the country is not able to function without eavesdropping????

If that be the case they are eavesdropping on more than terrorists they already know.

But isn't that the issue, the government is assuming all people are terrorists and listening in allows them to find the real ones.

"Come on, compose a composition in fifty or so words as to why you reject attempts to eavesdrop on conversations."

(sigh...)

The issue is not whether to "eavesdrop", but how, and under what protections.

Hmmm.

Late Wednesday afternoon, McConnell issued a statement acknowleding that "information contributing to the recent arrests [in Germany] was not collected under authorities provided by the 'Protect America Act'."

Admits to lying to congress to get the act passed, now doesn't this put a twist on the issue.

Got caught so admits it, wonder what else has been misleading.

I have to laugh here, I said from the beginning things were not as they seem and these idiots think I am the fool.

Reading just isn't in their understanding.

Money,
They want o believe the Lies, how do you deal with a person who puts their Faith In Corrupt Liars?

You give them the Facts and they Repeat the Lies they are told and once they are exposed they go into Denial Mode, and place the Blame on the Democrats.

I'll tell you what it is they spend 6 Hours A Day being Programed hearing Rush and Sean Yelling the Democrats are The Devil, and are to Blame For Adam And Eve being Expelled from th Garden to Osama Bin Laden !!

-Sarge

This is the first time a story on a thread has been refuted while the thread was running.

Maybe all the stories coming out of the WH folks should be checked and triple checked. Might cut down on threads about their claims by 85%

A river tells no lies but a dishonest man stands at its shores and still hears them.

Americanunity-
At this point they should probably be sworn under oath before the gag is removed.

You know it's funny. The NFL Condemned the Patriots for spying on the Jets and The Bush Administration who claim to be Patriots get caught lying about spying. Coinkadink I think NOT.

Larry

"Americanunity-
At this point they should probably be sworn under oath before the gag is removed.

Posted by Cooper"

Ya. I'd consider a muffled 'uh huh' or head nod a 'yes' when they take their oath

In fact, straight yes or no answers might be the best course where witnesses from some quarters are concerned. Seems when asked certain inconvenient questions they manage to somehow not answer it but get off on spinning about unrelated things.

Even the last couple of days when Petraeus and Crocker were answering specific questions, too many of the answers ended up being "in Al Anbar...', which is only 5% of the population, all Sunni with no sectarian fighting, and hardly representative of mixed provinces where most of the large problems are. Then there's the south where Shia factions are fighting for conrol amongst themselves.

For example, just now I'm watching a rerun of today's press conference with Petraeus and Crocker.

A reporter asked, "would you say we'll be there for 5 years'. The answer has nothing to do with the question.

I'm not saying Petraeus is being dishonest, it's just that too many direct questions didn't get direct answers the last few days. Between live an reruns, I've seen both hearings in their entirety. I was just hoping for more direct answers on some of the key questions regarding our efforts, and his views on how long he can conceive we'll be there.

In other words.....way too much spin in general all the way around about Iraq

I think we all want clear answers on questions like 'how much time are you willing to give the Iraqi government to get it's act together'.

Watch for Bush to emphasize Al Anbar and Al Qaeda in tonights speech. Problem is again, Al Anbar is 5% of Iraqi population, and Al Qaeda/Iraq is that or less of the fighters in Iraq with sectarian fighters the overwhelming problem.

More like "proof that bushbots will suck on anything that comes through the barrel hole and compliment the taste.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2007-09-13 03:52 AM | Reply

LOSERS!!!!

MORE Proof that you LIBERAL WIMPS take pleasure in things that make this country look bad...

YOU PEOPLE ARE WORTHLESS contributions to society...

Come on, compose a composition in fifty or so words as to why you reject attempts to eavesdrop on conversations.

Eavesdropping without a warrant constitutes a violation of our 4th Amendment rights. If allowed, the Constitution loses all meaning, all value. No part of our Constitution is more sacred than any other. If one Amendment falls, they all fall. And the enemies of freedom win and America dies without a shot fired.

52 words.

Amyof1- you're the dope that posted the first comment saying this article was "proof" that the "program works"

Except it wasn't, so now you must throw your little hissy fit, since reality kicked your ass. Again.

""YOU PEOPLE ARE WORTHLESS contributions to society...""

Somehow it is our fault that Mike McConnell is a liar. It's unpatriotic now to demand the truth.
These right wing nuts are laughable.

"As an American it is my duty to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic."

Posted by donnerboy at 2007-09-12 05:02 PM

I wonder Donner, just when did you take that oath?

I wonder Donner, just when did you take that oath?

Posted by sickoflibs at 2007-09-13 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Brilliant.

Bush needs more people like you.

"MORE Proof that you LIBERAL WIMPS take pleasure in things that make this country look bad..."

Dude. Liberals haven't been in power for many years. Blame the NeoCons who took over the GOP and replaced pragmatism and fundamental values like fiscal conservatism, values like civility, and using America's military might in the wisest and most prudent ways for narrow agendas, bully tactics. and reckless spending.

No one forced the GOP to abandon being set firmly in doing the people's business instead of spending like drunken sailors and acting like bullies in the halls of Congress and the world stage. The GOP forgot who it was and allowed itself to be taken over by those who've left the party and the country's reputaion in shambles through pure arrogance and empty rhetoric.

When a 3% pay raise for our military is called 'too much' by the White House, yet they will spend hundreds of billions on a war frought with shameless 'cost plus' profiteering, when the White House refuses to fund cops on the streets of America and college grants for $21 billion as 'too much' but asks for another $200 Billion appropriation for Iraq we'll have to borrow, blame the GOP. They did it all on their own with no help from Democrats and forgot who they represent - American citizens who elected them.

The best thing you can do, rather than point the finger at the 'left' is to look the the three pointing back at at the GOP. Iraq is a mess, we're borrowing our childern's futures to fight it, and Iraq wouldn't have been the mess it is if only wisdom and the desire to seek guidance from the best regardless of party and make sound decisions hadn't been replaced with gross arrogance and a 'Not Welcome' sign to all but partisan hacks.

Name me one massive program or war we couldn't afford enacted between 1970 and 2000. Hard to do isn't it. "Liberal" is a disengenuous and outdated word. "Conservative" has come to mean something completely different than it did when Bush 41 left office. Vicious partisanship isn't working. Yelling into the radio isn't working. What does work is when we have a 2 party system that return to working respectfully with each other and for the interests of all Americans, and presidents who do what's in the best interests of all of us, not a priviliged few.

"As an American it is my duty to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic."

I Did, So What About It ?

-Sarge

I wonder Donner, just when did you take that oath?

Posted by sickoflibs at 2007-09-13 10:14 AM

once a Marine always a Marine

SEMPER FI

SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

I Did, So What About It ?

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge at 2007-09-13 12:21 PM

So when are you going to start defending the Constitution instead of the President and your party?

So when are you going to start defending the Constitution instead of the President and your party?

That has to be directed at Sickoflibs, not Sarge.

This is pretty funny.

Watching Armyof1 get bitch slapped with the truth and turn to complete rage was classic. I just can't understand why so many people are like this. Do you care about the Republican Party, do you care about winning the argument, or does your heart lie with your country?

So many lies and you still can't let yourself admit that you were wrong. Its ok, it happens sometimes.

So when are you going to start defending the Constitution instead of the President and your party?

That has to be directed at Sickoflibs, not Sarge.

Posted by YAV at 2007-09-13 02:28 PM

actually I think it was for Army of none and Sick of truth...

Amyof1- you're the dope that posted the first comment saying this article was "proof" that the "program works"

Except it wasn't, so now you must throw your little hissy fit, since reality kicked your ass. Again.

Posted by Alexandrite



Alex,

The article says:

"Four intelligence-community officials, who asked for anonymity discussing sensitive material, said the new law, dubbed the "Protect America Act," played little if any role in the unraveling of the German plot. "

IMHO, that is not "hard truth" Who's to say these guys, Isikoff and Hosenball didn't just make this up? They are strong opponents to the evedropping laws, their credibility is lost on a statement like that. Any jackass could write that and say a little birdie told them.

Watching Armyof1 get bitch slapped with the truth and turn to complete rage was classic

Can you point out where this article talks about the "truth"?

Just curious. I'm not a big proponant of spyng on people, but I don't know how to combat today's terrorism.

Donner - Typical you guys have to revert to name calling when you are stuck.

You say that you are defending the "constitution" by supporting the limitations on wiretappings.

Show me in the constitution it says anything on wiretappings. There is none. Show me where it says "right to privacy"...if that was the case you could bring someone into your house and kill them - but the gov. would not be allowed to interfere as it was "private". This could also be extended to child abusers or anything else deemed "private".

So your high and might "defending the constitution" is just bullshit and the type of arrogance I see all the time in these posts as if liberal thinking is equivelent to intelligence.

The privacy right (so to speak) has been extended from Article 1 -freedom of speech but it has only been extended from that with 4 different court rulings of which one has been overturned.

This administration has gone out of its way to make sure it was on solid legal ground when engaging in wiretapping. The attack on this only serves to limit the ability to defend ourselves (as did the Clinton administration Chinese Wall that they put up between the FBI and the CIA - which lead DIRECTLY to 9/11)

You hatred for this admin. clouds your views and exposes the lack of logic in any of your (and others on this site) arguments.

Useful idiots. You discuss the decor of the lounge in the Titanic, and ignore the fact that there is "a problem" that must be addressed to alleviate consequences by interdicting to the extent possible the efforts of those who seek to harm us.

Why not just watch soap operas on TV, and ignore reality. Get caught up in the illusions presented by smoke and mirrors.

Useful idiots. You discuss the decor of the lounge in the Titanic, and ignore the fact that there is "a problem" that must be addressed to alleviate consequences by interdicting to the extent possible the efforts of those who seek to harm us.

Why not just watch soap operas on TV, and ignore reality. Get caught up in the illusions presented by smoke and mirrors.