Really?

Shocking!!!

Petraeus' asshole must be hurting after having Cheney hand up his there as the puppeteer.

We need 500,000 to achieve anything close to what they've been touting. What they're doing now is akin to dressing a pig in silk. Sure, it looks better, but it's a lot of unnecessary work and the only outcome is an aggravated pig.

Sen. Larry Craig started to blush when a reporter asked him if he liked to be the one leading the surge or if he like to be surged himself.

"Sen. Larry Craig started to blush"

He seemed nervous; he was tapping his foot the entire time.

If we fought WWII like these clowns are fighting Iraq we would all be speaking German.

No one can say NO to a President, and so the death toll continues to climb. McNamara knew he was doing the wrong thing but didn't go public until he was in his late eighties. Petreas is just another Westmoreland.

Since most of the population in many formerly populated areas is already dead or doing the refugee thing in Syria, there are fewer people left to kill or terrorize. The surge is working? I call bullshit!

The only way I'd be happy is if he came out and said were losing, the surge is not working and by the way George Bush sucks and I hate America.

- The Left.

McNamara knew he was doing

He didn't want to end up like the guy that first made him secretary.

He is a Bush tool nothing more. If He didn't say these things He would have received a lil pink slip right after the Testimony. Is anyone with a lick of common sense surprized at this??

Larry

If we fought WWII like these clowns are fighting Iraq we would all be speaking German. -nutcase


A huge majority understood why we had to fight WWII.

This situation should never have arisen.

All he really said was .... give us another year, a couple hundred billion more dollars oh and probably a few hundred more soldiers' lives so Bush won't have to take the blame for his own fuck up.

Petraeus' asshole must be hurting after having Cheney hand up his there as the puppeteer.

Petreas is just another Westmoreland.

He is a Bush tool nothing more.

Hilarious, yet predictable: you hate the message so you attack the messenger.

When you are done running in circles, waving your hands in the air and gnashing your teeth, why don't you try to substantively address what the man has to say.

Or does that ruin all the fun?

"There is no indication in site to the end of our occupation of Iraq"

Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time today?

When you are done running in circles, waving your hands in the air and gnashing your teeth, why don't you try to substantively address what the man has to say.

Are we talking about Gen Batiste here ROC?

Or does that ruin all the fun?

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 05:44 PM |


Yep, that's the one.

MPaths-

What of Batiste? I know that he hates Rummy with a passion, and was used by VoteVets in a manner that he ultimately retracted, but I don't quite get your point as it relates to what I said to Commonsense, Larry and Nutcase.

Did you hear those Republicans today? Oh my general how wonderful you are. Oh general you are the greatest American ever. Oh general may I suck your balls.

Pathetic.

"why don't you try to substantively address what the man has to say."

Because it was all sugar-coated. What if he had truthfully said the following:

Baghdad has less electricity and running water than it did before the invasion. Republicans undermanned and underplanned at the start of the war. Republicans had no contingency plan when the flowers and chocolates weren't forthcoming. Republicans decided we should guard the oil fields, but not the museums or the ammo dumps. Republicans disbanded the army, as well as the top 20% of the society, and told those folks they could never be rehired.
Republicans were surprised when those folks got upset. What was originally touted by the Republicans in charge as lasting "6 days, 6 weeks, I doubt 6 months", and costing upwards of $50 billion (the $200 billion number was dismissed as way off), is almost in its 6th year, and will cost over twenty times the original estimates, probably closer to forty times. While Anbar has quieted, overall, violence is at about the same level. Iraqi police are just as likely to be loyal to their tribe as the force. Increasing areas are "no-go" zones, where the tribal leaders are the law. No administration official has been able to make an announced trip to Iraq since the invasion. The road from the Baghdad airpport to the Green Zone is still a suicide drive.


So...how about substantively addressing the above?

When you are done running in circles, waving your hands in the air and gnashing your teeth, why don't you try to substantively address what the man has to say.

Or does that ruin all the fun?

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 05:44 PM

The Democrats unanimously confirmed Petraeus before they called him a liar. They also voted for the Iraq war before they voted against it.

When you are done running in circles, waving your hands in the air and gnashing your teeth, why don't you try to substantively address what the man has to say.

Sorry ROC, allow me to clarify.

When other Generals stood up against the admin, what did their response look like?

Gnashing of teeth (FIRED)

OR

Substantively address what they had to say

(the ball is bouncing behind you on your side of the court)

Petraeus Touts Surge

Anyone expect to hear anything different from General Brown Nose.

"They also voted for the Iraq war"

But they didn't vote for undermanning & underplanning. They didn't vote to guard the oil fields but not the ammo dumps. They didn't vote to destroy the societal infrastructure while they were also destroying the civil infrastructure.

Nope, Republicans made those decisions. Republicans made those mistakes. And now, with the stench of this fiasco almost overwhelming, the Rs want to blame the party who was out of power when those decisions were made.

When you give the go-ahead to redo the garage, and 4+ years later it's still in shambles, it's the builder's fault.

Look - did anyone really expect anything else from this four-star apparatchik?. They still follow orders, privates and generals alike, and this guy probably is still robotized from his West Point days. It gives the Bowas, Oorahs, Snipers and their ilk another few weeks to ask why we - the public - hate America and if we would rather surrender in Iraq or Afghanistan. herm

Herm not at all. He is just doing what He was ordered to do. Not surprized at all. EXPECTED more like it.

Larry

I've only had a chance to watch the past hour of the Petraous report. I'll watch the rest of it on C-Span tonite.

If the past hour is the way the whole day has gone, then the Democrats must be devastated.

Petraous is rock-solid.

"Petraous is rock-solid."

Really? Which of the facts of my 6:02 post did he address?

like colin powell he is failing his one true chance. he is failing his moral obligation.

sorry betrayus you lose.

If the past hour is the way the whole day has gone, then the Democrats must be devastated.


Petraous is rock-solid.

Posted by Bowa at



like powell was at the UN?

Listening to the petraous exchange with democrats is incredible.

the democrats don't seem to have a clue. Don't they realize that the new strategy is working. Why do they keep bringing up the past failed st5rategies when obvioulsy America has learned from its mistakes and is pursuing a course that is achieveing success.

If Iraq was baseball game, America would have been down 6 runs in the 4th, but accodring to Petraous and Crccker the US has battled back with 5 runs in the 5th -- yet the Democrats are arguing that because we are still down a run, the game is over and hopeless and we need to forefeit.

Bowa - Is he saying anything different than he said in 2004, when he opined that Iraq was doing just dandy?

Danforth-

Your bitterness about the Republicans and antipathy for the war are noted, but the hi(y)sto(e)rical recitation of how you perceive the war was not the subject of Petreaus' testimony...he was focused on the present security situation.

Where you do address the present, your assessment of the situation (violence in Anbar about the same, no-go zones where tribal leaders are the law, etc.) conflicts with even those of leading Democrats who have been there recently. Personally, I will go with Levin, Biden et al. in what they see over you.

Roy-

I agree that the surge isn't going to bring people together, only they can do that themselves. However, even the most jaded of Dems who have gone to Iraq agree that it is working. The question becomes, will we have the testicular fortitude to retain the gains that have been made?

My guess is, after all the posturing and complaining for the cameras and constituents, the Congress will give Petraeus what he needs to continue through 2008.

"Why do they keep bringing up the past failed strategies"

WTF are you talking about? Over half my post was about conditions TODAY. Electricity, Water, Tribalism, Overall violence, De-Ba'athification, Cost, and the fact that even TODAY, no administration official has flown to Iraq on an announced flight, and the drive from the airport to the Green Zone is still not safe.

Which of these did Petraeus cover? And why do the apologists keep avoiding the pertinent questons?

Bowa...

80% of Petraeus' own anti-insurgency strategy is based upon the political reconcilliation of the warring factions for peacably agreeing to live together under a central unity government. How much of the political work has been done? How can Petraeus deliver political victories for the Iraqis themselves?

On what planet can 20% of anything be deemed a "success," when the reality is that due to 4 years of ethnic cleansing and of Iraqis leaving violent areas, the levels of violence MUST go down because there are fewer people to foment more violence? Did you factor in these realities as well?

Where you do address the present, your assessment of the situation (violence in Anbar about the same, no-go zones where tribal leaders are the law, etc.) conflicts with even those of leading Democrats who have been there recently. Personally, I will go with Levin, Biden et al. in what they see over you.

Roy-

I agree that the surge isn't going to bring people together, only they can do that themselves. However, even the most jaded of Dems who have gone to Iraq agree that it is working. The question becomes, will we have the testicular fortitude to retain the gains that have been made?

My guess is, after all the posturing and complaining for the cameras and constituents, the Congress will give Petraeus what he needs to continue through 2008.

Posted by rightocenter at 2007-09-10 06:51 PM | Reply


Bwhahahahahah You go along with Biden and Levin but when I reminded You of John McCain You said You don't take Politicians at their word. Funny Dat Be.

Larry

if the last 90 minutes of the hearing was any measure of the whole 6 hourse -- then the Democrats will not have near enough votes to stop funding the war or getting a timetable for withdrawl.

However, even the most jaded of Dems who have gone to Iraq agree that it is working.

Not true. Praytell what metrics are you using to define "working"? And how can we ignore that fact that the military is at its breaking point in regards to the soldiers used for the surge and there extended deployments in an active war zone, something we didn't even do in WWII?

Lastly, tell us in detail how continuing on this course will bring about the cessation of violence in Iraq by the use of our military alone.

MPaths-

Sorry, but I do work for a living, this is only a diversion when I have a few free moments.

Two things are notable about Batiste:

1. He had a very public falling out with Rumsfeld when people started to criticize Wolfie's planning of the aftermath, which Batiste was intimately involved with.

2. He is an ardent supporter of both the invasion and the surge, going so far as to state:

Well, first off, I think we have got to complete the mission in Iraq. We have no option; we need to be successful; we need to set the Iraqi people up for self-reliance. With their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, religious and ethnic complexity that defines that country is nothing new. The Brits had a hell of a time with that in the '10s and '20s of the last century, nothing new at all. And we got to set them up for self-reliance so they can go on it on their own. I think we're going to be successful. There's nothing this country can't do, if we put our mind to it, but we need to do it right. We need to mobilize this country.

Secondary interests are that our withdrawal can not create a humanitarian disaster or an Iraq dominated by another state(s) in the region. This may require a residual force of up to 30,000 US troops for decades to protect the US mission, train and advise the Iraqi security forces, provide a counter balance to unintended consequences of Iran and a greater "Kurdistan", and take direct action against residual Al Qaeda in Iraq. We cannot walk away from our strategic interests.

How much of the political work has been done?

Tony, I'd like to see the whole hearing tonight before I get into a in depth discussion with you. I only saw the last 90 minutes.

I didn't hear Petraous talk about the political situation during that time -- Crocker on the other hand said that as security is established local governemnt, and local reconstruction begins in earnest -- so the pieces for political reconciliation on a national level are coming together as security is established on the local levels.

"if the last 90 minutes of the hearing was any measure of the whole 6 hourse -- then the Democrats will not have near enough votes to stop funding the war or getting a timetable for withdrawl."

You mean they won't be able to muster the 67 votes needed to override a Presidential veto? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.

"Why do they keep bringing up the past failed strategies"

WTF are you talking about?

How about this:

Republicans undermanned and underplanned at the start of the war. Republicans had no contingency plan when the flowers and chocolates weren't forthcoming. Republicans decided we should guard the oil fields, but not the museums or the ammo dumps. Republicans disbanded the army, as well as the top 20% of the society, and told those folks they could never be rehired.
Republicans were surprised when those folks got upset. What was originally touted by the Republicans in charge as lasting "6 days, 6 weeks, I doubt 6 months", and costing upwards of $50 billion (the $200 billion number was dismissed as way off), is almost in its 6th year, and will cost over twenty times the original estimates, probably closer to forty times.
...
Republicans made those decisions. Republicans made those mistakes. And now, with the stench of this fiasco almost overwhelming, the Rs want to blame the party who was out of power when those decisions were made.

We get it, you don't like Republicans.

Tony-

On what planet can 20% of anything be deemed a "success,"

As you yourself admit, that 20% is all that Petraeus can control, and that is bringing security improvements. Will that be enough for the Iraqis to pull their political heads out of their asses? As you note, Petraeus can't do that for them, he can only try to quell the overall violence.

By most measures, 90 days into the surge, that is happening in more and more areas.

Larry-

I bring up Levin and Biden to make the point that I will listen to their assessments even though politically we don't agree. As for McCain, I am not sure what you are talking about, I don't recall ever discussing him with you.

"Where you do address the present, your assessment of the situation (violence in Anbar about the same, no-go zones where tribal leaders are the law, etc.) conflicts with even those of leading Democrats who have been there recently."

WTF are you talking about? I never said the violence in Anbar is the same, I said overall it's about the same: i.e., down in Anbar but up in other places. And where did Biden or Levin say there weren't no-go zones where the tribal leaders are the law? Does Basra ring a bell?

Even Britney Spears did a better job of lip synching...

Ollie North is smirking somewhere.

You must remember ROC Remember when You was trying to state sometrhing when in actuality it was BULLSHIT like usual. That was the time when You was touting those Brookings institute folks claiming they were all anti War then changing their tune when in reality the situation was they were always for the war and You funnily left that part out. Well I brought up the McCain bit and You declared that You don't give too much creedance to Politicians. I will find it and repost it if I can.

Larry

"We get it, you don't like Republicans."

Translation: Yeah, it's all true; I can't refute a single line.

"We get it, you don't like Republicans."

Show me a real one, then let's talk.

I've probably voted for more Rs than Ds in my life. On that "what party are you" thread test the other day I was one box off dead center. My first handle was DanforthRepublican, as I felt then (and still do) it best represented my views.

But these neocon so-called Republicans stand for nothing true Republicans believe in: small government, fiscal responsibility, and personal freedom, to name a few. Instead, the party of Jack Danforth has been replaced by the party of James Dobson, and it's all about cronyism, tax cuts for the wealthiest, codifying inequality, PNAC imperialism, and bedding down with the religious right. To those still voting R: are you happy with this direction of the party?

To those still voting R: are you happy with this direction of the party?


No.


However, they still better represent my viewpoints than Democrats.

Well I brought up the McCain bit and You declared that You don't give too much creedance to Politicians. I will find it and repost it if I can.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:17 PM

Please do, and I usually don't give much weight to what politicians say, I was only making the point to Danforth that leading members of the Democratic Party are agreeing with Petraeus' assesment.

Tony-

It is no secret that the surge can't be maintained indefinitely, which is why these "revelations" by esteemed sources such as thinkprogress.org are so humorous. Think about it, the term "surge" itself means a transient rise and ultimate fall, as in a wave: if it was meant to be longer lasting, it would be called an escalation, as in Vietnam.

Tony, why not reder to him as "General Betray Us"

Because Troofy, the king of talking points, already did in another thread.

JeffJ - are you happy with the direction of your Wolverines?

JeffJ - are you happy with the direction of your Wolverines?

Posted by mOntecOre

OUCH!

Monte-

No need to be needlessly cruel.

Hilarious, yet predictable: you hate the message so you attack the messenger.

When you are done running in circles, waving your hands in the air and gnashing your teeth, why don't you try to substantively address what the man has to say.

Or does that ruin all the fun?

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

You couldn't be any slower on the uptake, could you?

Do you really believe this "report" was done by Petraeus? Do you really believe it was an impartial piece of work?

Actually, you probably do.

Save the dramatics you little queen.

September 15, 2007: Notre Dame (0-2) @ Michigan (0-2).

Word is, after next Saturday, either JeffJ or TonyRoma will be committing hari-kari.

CommonSense that's all these drizzling shits have is dramatic deflections back to the Previous administration who did NOT invade. They are so God Damned desperate to cleanse themselves of that blood that is spilling foirth from their hands they don't know whther to shit or go blind. Common Sense this is at the exact moment where the cyanide in the Grape Flavoured FlavrAid has reached their central nervous systems and they are beginging to wretch.. I should feel sorry for them but WE WARNED them. It's not Our fault that they partook of the Bush Lemming Juice now they have to pay the consequenses. Oh well shit happens right Common Sense.

Larry

"But they didn't vote for undermanning & underplanning. They didn't vote to guard the oil fields but not the ammo dumps. They didn't vote to destroy the societal infrastructure while they were also destroying the civil infrastructure.

Nope, Republicans made those decisions. Republicans made those mistakes. And now, with the stench of this fiasco almost overwhelming, the Rs want to blame the party who was out of power when those decisions were made.

When you give the go-ahead to redo the garage, and 4+ years later it's still in shambles, it's the builder's fault."
--DANFORTH

Yeah, I know.

Hilarious, yet predictable: you hate the message so you attack the messenger.

Bull.
General Patraeus is more than merely "the messenger" in this instance. By agreeing, as respected military general, to put his reputation and status behind what's in this report he KNEW BEFOREHAND that whatever was contained in the report would have added weight and credibility. That makes Patraeus complicit with the Bush spin machine.

Patraeous knew beforehead he would have to sell his soul to do business with the Bush White House. Other generals have told Bush "NO" when Bush tried to use them as his war shills. Patraeus should have followed their example and left with his reputation still intact. Too late now.

Save the dramatics you little queen.

Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2007-09-10 07:50 PM

It sucks when a retort strikes a nerve, doesn't it, but don't worry, a tub of Ben & Jerry's in a dark room will make you feel a little better (if not a lot fatter).

And I save the dramatics for Danforth, who does it for a living. Which leads to...

Word is, after next Saturday, either JeffJ or TonyRoma will be committing hari-kari.

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:52 PM

FF.

if the last 90 minutes of the hearing was any measure of the whole 6 hourse -- then the Democrats will not have near enough votes to stop funding the war or getting a timetable for withdrawl.

Of course! These dog and pony shows are choreographed. It's the role of the party out of power to act stupid and ineffective. It doesn't change when the roles reverse. Boba Bowa has this naive idea that two parties are engaged in a life and death struggle. Hell no! The fight is fixed.

Chris-

By agreeing, as respected military general, to put his reputation and status behind what's in this report he KNEW BEFOREHAND that whatever was contained in the report would have added weight and credibility.

Agreed.

That makes Patraeus complicit with the Bush spin machine.

I get it, and 1+1=3.

Is that because you don't agree with his assessment, or you believe, as does Nocommonsense, that Bush wrote it for him? Maybe Levin and Biden helped edit it as well?

Watching the bleating of the DR Left after this report only gives weight to Rep. Clyburn's statement that if Gen. Petraeus gives a positive report to Congress "that would be a real big problem for us."

Got to hand it to Clyburn, he hit the nail on the head.

Why don't you guys comment on how the democratics were calling Petreus a "liar" before he even spoke before Congress?

God, why don't you Neocon shitheads JUST SAY IT -

- We're not leaving, ever. No matter what happens, we're not going to leave. No matter how much it costs, no matter who has to die. We're not leaving. Fuck you, just give us more money and shut up. -

All this Petraeus crap is just the Nth Act of a play Republicans are putting on to distract the American people. "Just another six months" is like a mantra with them.

And for what it's worth, when Bush announced the surge, he claime d it was to give the Iraqi Government breathing room to consolidate the country. It doesn't matter what the military situation is in any given Shithole six months later, If the Iraqi government doesn't consolidate the country, the surge will be a failure. Not that the Neocon Republicans care, they don't want to leave anyway (see above).

Dalton-

They had no choice, given Clyburn's comments.

Is that because you don't agree with his assessment, or you believe, as does Nocommonsense, that Bush wrote it for him.

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 08:13 PM | Re

Yes to both.

All this Petraeus crap is just the Nth Act of a play Republicans are putting on to distract the American people. "Just another six months" is like a mantra with them.

Yes, they don't want anyone looking at the economy and the loss of jobs and wages. They don't want anyone to focus on the price of oil going up.

It is all deflections and what is really sad is the Democrats just fall in line in collusion with the reponeocon-empirialists.

Get a clue people.

CHRIS

I'm around. I'll wait here for a minute......

I guess the Righty Tighties don't remember that post from a few days back where it emphatically declared that Dubya was going to write the report. Does anyone remember THAT one or is it somewhere in that purposefully fogged up mind of Yours??

Larry

Petraeus will go on foxnews to sell the surge right after his testimony. That tells you all you need to know.

"That makes Patraeus complicit with the Bush spin machine. Patraeous knew beforehead he would have to sell his soul to do business with the Bush White House."

Right on, Chris, as always when there's nothing about immgrants involved.

Those who don't remember history must relive it, and this episode reminds of OberGeneral Von Schtuppenhaus rushing in to announce, "Mein Fuehrer, the surge at Stalingrad is really working. Arbeit macht frei. Stay the course, Mein Fuehrer, und Morgen die ganze Welt."

Of course the Reichstag, if there's still a Reichstag, okays another trillion or so... herm

Alexandrite-
Yes, it does.

I guess the Righty Tighties don't remember that post from a few days back where it emphatically declared that Dubya was going to write the report.

Gee, this is what Gen. Petraeus said to Congress in his testimony today:

"I wrote this testimony myself. It has not been cleared by nor shared with anyone in the Pentagon, the White House or the Congress."

Deflections ehhhhhhhh ROC. Who are You trying to kid. He answers to Bush or has that little tidbit of information escaped Your Mind??

Larry

Dubya isn't capable of writing a report. Reports said the White House was going to write the report. So? Bush still couldn't write 'My Pet Goat' if his life depended on it. He can barely talk without a teleprompter.

I still don't get why the right refuses to hold Bush and Cheney accountable for the mess we're in. Where's their outrage at the 'cakewalk' that turned into the hugest debacle in a generation. Not like Democrats had a single thing to do with the planning or execution of the war since it started 4 1/2 years ago.. 4 years longer than they could IMAGINE it'd be, to paraphrase.

Rightocenter-
The testimony is from Petraeus and Crocker. The report will be written and issued by the White House.

It's really not that difficult to understand.

"Really? Which of the facts of my 6:02 post did he address?"

Wholy shit Dan, I didnt realize the General was there to answer your questions. Oh wait, what was I thinking, it doesnt fucking matter what you think. You assholes made up your minds long before this report was due out.

Yes there were mistakes made but now lets talk abou some facts since you libs think you are all knowing of them.

1. The democrats voted to go to war (before they voted against it).

2. The democrats read the same intel that the president did.

3. The democrats voted overwhelming to send the General over and listen to his report. (unless of course they didnt get the news they wanted)

What you really need to do is STFU and get a life. And for the dickhead that said he hates America, you can especially go fuck yourself.

ROC,

Anymore, we have to look for what they don't say as much as what they say, as in "It is my intent to resign on September 30."

No one actually believes Dubya wrote it, heck there were some three-syllable words.

Right after Petraeus referred to the testimony he had written, he stated the testemony wasn't "cleared" or "shared". That doesn't mean an earlier draft wasn't, or the thrust of the presentation. Do you really think Bush was hearing all this stuff for the first time, and had nothing to do with the content of the report?

Danforth-
It's my understanding that the testimony and the report are two different things. Testimony will be given by Petraeus, but a report will be written and issued by the White House.

Wholy shit Dan, I didnt realize the General was there to answer your questions.

Of that I have no doubt.

sickofLibs-
re: And for the dickhead that said he hates America, you can especially go fuck yourself.

get a grip:

The only way I'd be happy is if he came out and said were losing, the surge is not working and by the way George Bush sucks and I hate America.

- The Left.

Posted by MFDVR at 2007-09-10 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag

70% of Iraqis don't think the surge is working.

I guess Iraq AND America are full of subversives and traitors who don't watch FoxNews and aren't aware of how sunny everything is due to our Dear Leader's brilliant '6 month tops..probably 2' war plan.

"but now lets talk abou some facts..."
1. The democrats voted to go to war (before they voted against it)."

Not paying attention, are you? The Dems didn't vote for undermanning, or underplanning, or de-Baathification, or what to guard (oil) and what to ignore (ammo). Republicans did all that. Not a single Dem (or Republican member of Congress) voted for incompetence beyond the imagination when it came to planning.

"2. The democrats read the same intel that the president did."

Not paying attention, are you? A few days ago, a thread was up regarding info Bush had that wasn't in the intel reports.

"3. The democrats voted overwhelming to send the General over and listen to his report. (unless of course they didnt get the news they wanted)"

And a Friedman or two later, what do we have to show? Is the government finally coming together, are the sectarian factions getting along? Or have we come six more months down the road to only find more dead Americans and an even larger bill to pay?

"What you really need to do is STFU and get a life."

Spoken like someone who has absolutely no defense for these clusterfuckers. Quick: tell the guy asking uncomfortable questions we'll all have to answer one day to shaddup. Typical republican behavior these days.

We have occupied Iraq for no better reason that to steal their oil. But the dirty bastards won't sign over their oil rights.

What to do now? Shrub knows, send more troops. Use better counterinsurgency strategies. More importantly, spend tons of money announcing in chorus that Patreas is a genius and the surge is working.

What the mental midgets on this site don't understand is that there are still at least twenty million people in Iraq and they don't want us there. They cannot directly confront their oppressor so they do what any rational person would do, in Vietnam, France and Poland...you lay low and wait for opportunities to sabotage the occupying Army. Constantly nip at their heals, with mortors and IEDs.

Eventually the enemy will figure out that it is more expensive to stay than it is to buy the oil at free markets prices. The electorate has already figured this out. But the politicians are slow learners, primarily because they are preoccupied with their plausible storylines, rather than stopping the bleeding.

Vietnam 2: The Movie

God, we've heard this all before. At least those of us old enough to have lived through Vietnam. Westmoreland saying if we only stay the course... Republicans calling people traitors for doing the American thing and dissenting to an unpopular war that's stuck in a quagmire.

Same movie, different actors and less jungle

General Betray..us on the warpath.......

"Same movie, different actors and less jungle."

Yup, Rambo sweated as much in deserts as in jungles. And the light at the end of the tunnel is a little dimmer. Well said, American Unity. herm

Word is, after next Saturday, either JeffJ or TonyRoma will be committing hari-kari.


Roma's got the advantage.

My team will likely be playing without their starting QB (Henne). This should put our offense on par with ND's offense; which is to say - SHITTY.

So, the game will likely come down to defense and special teams - Michigan is arguably among the worst in the country on both of these fronts (we do have a pretty good punter though).

My prediction: Notre Dame by 2 touchdowns.

It doesn't matter what they say. Nothing will be done by the Dems except huff and bluster. Same as it ever was.

they're all one and the same. I still plan on NOT voting for clinton, obama, edwards etc. But I will vote for Kucinich.

Plus look for Michigan to win this weekend and the Oregon Ducks to lose.

Stick,


Plus look for Michigan to win this weekend and the Oregon Ducks to lose.


I just sent TonyRoma an email congratulating him, in advance, for the Irish's pending victory against Michigan. Michigan's starting QB, Henne, is likely not to play due to an injury. Admittedly, he's been disappointing so far this season, but he's still a senior and a 4-year starter. Basically, his absence will likely neuter our offense and our defense is even worse than ND's offense.

So Bush's pet says what he was trained to say.....shocking.

Even if the wingnuts were right, and the surge is working(it isn't, at least not in any meaningful way)that only proves Bush is either a liar or incompetent or both.

IF the surge of extra troops is working now, then it would have worked 2 or 3 yrs ago and who knows how many untold lives would have been saved. How many billions not thrown down the toilet?
How many hundreds of thousands of US weapons wouldn't be missing and presumably in enemy hands?

He is doubly incompetent for having fired top Generals, including the Joint Chief, who told him he needed more troops.

Either that or he and his entire administration has been lying for 4 yrs when stating that troop levels were adequate. Or once again, they were just plain incompetent, or stupid, or all three.

You make the choice:

Liars
Incompetent
Incompetent liars
Stupid

If I had been a Bush supporter over the past 7 yrs, I'd be feeling pretty stupid myself right about now.

"If I had been a Bush supporter over the past 7 yrs, I'd be feeling pretty stupid myself right about now.

Posted by briwo"

Those who don't feel stupid for still supporting Bush were already that stupid and wouldn't have anything to compare their usual state to.

By the way, I stopped by Rush's website tonight after listening to right wing radio for 45 minutes in my car this afternoon just to see what the new talking points were. You can read every single one you've heard here at Rush's site - and avoid the falling crackers for his platoon of parrots here. No shit. Verbatim. Baaaaawk!! Cracker?

BFD -- all Petraeus did was to suggest bringing our troops back to pre-surge levels. That's nothing. A few months of Bush's "surge show" and we're back to square one.

Bush is going to run out the clock in order to leave the mess he's created to the next president. Par for the course based on the totality of his life.

Petraeus can improve security, but that will only hold if the political situation improves dramatically. Since the surge started that end has gone downhill.

Baghdad, the main thrust of the surge saw the former 65% Sunni majority turn into a 70% Shia majority as Sunni fled the city for fear of their lives from the Sadr militia and others. However, consider that New York had far less murders last year than Baghdad had last month.

The surge was touted as a way of giving the government time to restore political stability and reconciliation. That hasn't happend. The Sunni have walked out of the government as has Sadr's contingent. Petraeus's gains will only make a difference if the political situation matches the strides he's attempting to make in security. No signs of political progress happening anytime soon. Thus, this surge could end up only ensuring that Iraq will be handed off the the next president with 100,000 or more regular U.S. forces in country and $12 Billion a month going to the military and Bush's cronies in the 'cost plus' sector.

The guy is an honorable guy, but what do you expect form a military officer reporting on his own plan with Bush looking over his shoulder? Anything short of a disaster would be viewed as "success" under these conditions. Bottom line - does anyone really think that Petraeus or any other thinking being is satisfied with the current outcome and status?

Funny how the bleeding liberals are saying the Generals data is not right, when they have been twisting the facts for the last 20+ years to meet there political agenda, they just cant stand any good news from Iraq, so they like most of the media keep twisting the facts and fooling the general masses into thinking what they WANT them to see. whats really sad is the dumbed down masses that think ABC, CBS, NBC BBC are actually reporting the truth, thats the real problem here, .. Thanks God for FOX and talk radio at least you get the other side of the story..

I'm impressed with this propaganda machine. They convinced us for a few weeks that there were WMDs and now they've turned an utter disaster into victory.

Good job until the cows come home. Then we will see what a great hero Betrayus is.

Funny how the bleeding liberals are saying the Generals data is not right,

Posted by kc101 at 2007-09-11 07:04 AM | Reply

The selective inclusion of violence numbers is evident: bullets entering the back of the head count, those entering the front of the head don't. "If a bullet went through the back of the head, it's sectarian," the senior intelligence official said. "If it went through the front, it's criminal." [Washington Post, 9/6/07]

Warfare between Shiite militias is not included in the violence statistics. According to a spokesman for the Baghdad headquarters of the Multi-National Force-Iraq (MNF-I), warfare between rival Shiite militias are not included in the military's statistics. "Given a lack of capability to accurately track Shiite-on-Shiite and Sunni-on-Sunni violence, except in certain instances," the spokesman said, "we do not track this data to any significant degree." [Washington Post, 9/6/07]

GAO Report Found That "Violence Remains High" In Iraq With Little Political Progress. "A Congressional report Tuesday said "violence remains high" in Iraq, with little political progress and mixed results on security a day after President Bush visited Anbar province and struck and upbeat tone." [Reuters, 9/4/07]

The surge I planned is working perfectly. I am doing a great job.

Ignore the daily body counts, lack of political progress and that the Iraqi police force is nothing more than a gun and a badge for armed militias.

Sincerely,

General David Petaeus.

W


















M



















D

















?

Incubus_Con

Jesus Christ, get a life.

US Senators who voted YES to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq:



Allard, Wayne (R-CO)
Allen, George (R-VA)
Baucus, Max (D-MT)
Bayh, Evan (D-IN)
Bennett, Robert (R-UT)
Biden, Joseph (D-DE)
Bond, Christopher (R-MO)
Breaux, John (D-LA)
Brownback, Sam (R-KS)
Bunning, Jim (R-KY)
Burns, Conrad (R-MT)
Campbell, Ben (R-CO)
Cantwell, Maria (D-WA)
Carnahan, Jean (D-MO)
Carper, Thomas (D-DE)
Cleland, Max (D-GA)
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY)
Cochran, Thad (R-MS)
Collins, Susan (R-ME)
Craig, Larry (R-ID)
Crapo, Michael (R-ID)
Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
DeWine, Mike (R-OH)
Dodd, Christopher (D-CT)
Domenici, Pete (R-NM)
Dorgan, Byron (D-ND)

Edwards, John (D-NC)
Ensign, John (R-NV)
Enzi, Michael (R-WY)
Feinstein, Dianne (D-CA)
Fitzgerald, Peter (R-IL)
Frist, Bill (R-TN)
Gramm, Phil (R-TX)
Grassley, Chuck (R-IA)
Gregg, Judd (R-NH)
Hagel, Chuck (R-NE)
Harkin, Tom (D-IA)
Hatch, Orrin (R-UT)
Helms, Jesse (R-NC)
Hollings, Ernest (D-SC)
Hutchinson, Tim (R-AR)
Hutchison, Kay (R-TX)
Inhofe, James (R-OK)
Johnson, Tim (D-SD)
Kerry, John (D-MA)
Kohl, Herb (D-WI)
Kyl, Jon (R-AZ)
Landrieu, Mary (D-LA)
Lieberman, Joseph (D-CT)
Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)
Lott, Trent (R-MS)
Lugar, Richard (R-IN)

McCain, John (R-AZ)
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY)
Miller, Zell (D-GA)
Murkowski, Lisa (R-AK)
Nelson, Bill (D-FL)
Nelson, Ben (D-NE)
Nickles, Don (R-OK)
Reid, Harry (D-NV)
Roberts, Pat (R-KS)
Rockefeller, John (D-WV)
Santorum, Rick (R-PA)
Schumer, Charles (D-NY)
Sessions, Jeff (R-AL)
Shelby, Richard (R-AL)
Smith, Robert (R-NH)
Smith, Gordon (R-OR)
Snowe, Olympia (R-ME)
Specter, Arlen (R-PA)
Stevens, Ted (R-AK)
Thomas, Craig (R-WY)
Thompson, Fred (R-TN)
Thurmond, Strom (R-SC)
Torricelli, Robert (D-NJ)
Voinovich, George (R-OH)
Warner, John (R-VA)

That's a lot of "THEY"s....

Want some more "THEY"s, or is that enough to refresh your memory for a while?

A freaking leftist whines and pules, "Jesus Christ, get a life."

What enjoyment! I'm plotz with natches! The leftist/democratics weeping and crying in the streets!

I'm actually feeling a bit sorry for you slavish dupes of leftist/democratic treasonous propaganda! Here is your lying, antipatriotic leadership SHOWN TO BE RANK HYPOCRITES! ... and you stooges grit your teeth in shame and chagrin!

With these quotes, it is plain to see that each and everyone of your candidates is a filthy traitor in wanting to lose this war, leave in defeat and win a victory for you gangsters and subversive vermin!

Scum sucking traitors is what they are! Suck it up, subversive scum ....

Where are all our little leftist-socialist friends this morning. Has MoveOn forbidden them to attend today?

The selective inclusion of violence numbers is evident: bullets entering the back of the head count, those entering the front of the head don't. "If a bullet went through the back of the head, it's sectarian," the senior intelligence official said. "If it went through the front, it's criminal." [Washington Post, 9/6/07]

by JimmyWallback at 2007-09-11 08:36 AM | Reply | Flag:


Asked and answered yesterday by the General. Washington Post - FALSE

You obviously didn't see the testimony... I wonder when the post will retract it and what page it will appear on...



Incubus_Con

Jesus Christ, get a life.

Posted by JimmyWallback at 2007-09-11 08:45 AM


Translation, let me up , let me up, get off me...

Hypocrites and traducers the whole lot of you.

First of all,

Thanks God for FOX and talk radio at least you get the other side of the story..



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

and second,

anyone else just skip over all of that tired old crap of quotes of Democrats saying that Hussein was a bad guy?

Bush knew more than they did (this one time, anyway), and they've admitted that they were misled, wrong, etc., and no longer support the war. In other words, they've COME TO REALIZE that it is a disaster, unlike the rosy scenario crowd which feels compelled to repeat the same old deflections that now fly with the help of my down arrow key.

Inc:
Did you just discover fine art of copy/paste? :

Posted by OohRah at 2007-09-11 08:52 AM


Na OoRah. I just think this time of year is an appropriate time to shove their hypocrisy in their face.

I also live rural and don't use the computer for a whole lot of stuff so I'm still on dial up... To cheap to pay for satallite. So it takes a lot of time to dig the stuff up. But this week it seems fitting to take the time.

anyone else just skip over all of that tired old crap of quotes of Democrats saying that Hussein was a bad guy?

Not just a bad guy, but a bad guy who had and was developing more WMD's. Which was the populist view of Saddam long before Bush came into office -- and is the reason why the whole "Bush Lied Us Into War" bumper sticker will never prompt a congressional investigatin into the way intel was diseeminated to/from the executive branch in the run up to the war.

Everyone, Democrat and Republican spanning two adminitrations, was complicit in believing the populist view of Saddam's threat level which was embraced by inbtel agencies around the world.

and second,

anyone else just skip over all of that tired old crap of quotes of Democrats saying that Hussein was a bad guy?

Bush knew more than they did (this one time, anyway), and they've admitted that they were misled, wrong, etc., and no longer support the war. In other words, they've COME TO REALIZE that it is a disaster, unlike the rosy scenario crowd which feels compelled to repeat the same old deflections that now fly with the help of my down arrow key.

Posted by midiman at 2007-09-11 09:04 AM |


That's rich! lmao... allow me to translate for you.

You stick your fingers in your ear and shout LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA


Nobody I know sees it as things being a "ROSY SCENARIO" but we do see it as a war voted on by BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS and BOTH PARTIES were a party to it, and how we view our lives is how we believe our country should conduct its business.
We made a PROMISE, we broke it and it's our job to finish the job of FIXING it.

Gen. David Petraeus is not a trator, he is doing his job and he is doing it well. I am against this war but I am not willing to throw this man under the bus to make my point.

That being said....it does not matter if the surge is working. Our military will ALWAYS be able to cement some security while we are there, but as soon as we back down the violence will return. To make this work we need to be there forever. Im not willing to make that sacrifice of life or treasure. We need to leave. We should not have INVADED to begin with. The region is LESS stable now that we are there.

NO WMD's.... The heck ya say...

Pay special attention to the timeline and then ask yourself why this asswad wasn't brought to the whipping post.


WALLACE: Now, the president never said that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat. As you saw, you did say that. If anyone hyped the intelligence, isn't it Jay Rockefeller?

ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I'll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11.

This is petreaus' moment in time, but lying obfuscating etc he is failing his test.

kind of like powell in February 2003

If he thinks this will help him look where Powell is now.

it is not a congressman or senators job to collect and evaluate intelligence.

With the intelligence agencies receiving the pressure they were from the white house the intelligence presented to the congress was not the truth it was the spin (the fixed intelligence) that the WH wanted.

were they culpable in not resisting it? absolutely.

but to say there was even a strong consensus that SH had WMD is an out and out falsehood.


NO EVIDENCE

EMBARRASSING FORGERIES

2 2 word phrases that should have been enough to stop bush from his war of agressioni

"George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq"

That was old news when he said it. Everyone already knew that..... oh, except for the Reichwing Koolaid'ers.

Its not ABOUT Gen Petreus or the surge! None of that matters. The war is wrong and not the best thing for this country or our security. We need to leave REGARDLESS of how well or not well the surge works. Wrong is wrong, why is that such a difficult concept.

Dicrediting Gen. Petreus is a weak argument against the war. Keep focus. The war is wrong, we need to leave, does not matter if progress is being made. Progress toward what?

Its not ABOUT Gen Petreus or the surge! None of that matters. The war is wrong and not the best thing for this country or our security. We need to leave REGARDLESS of how well or not well the surge works. Wrong is wrong, why is that such a difficult concept.

Discrediting Gen. Petreus is a weak argument against the war. Keep focus. The war is wrong, we need to leave, does not matter if progress is being made. Progress toward what?

Its not ABOUT Gen Petreus or the surge! None of that matters. The war is wrong and not the best thing for this country or our security. We need to leave REGARDLESS of how well or not well the surge works. Wrong is wrong, why is that such a difficult concept.

Discrediting Gen. Petreus is a weak argument against the war. Keep focus. The war is wrong, we need to leave, does not matter if progress is being made. Progress toward what?

sorry for the double.

idiotcon, you REALLY should check your references.

Posted by truthhurts at 2007-09-11 09:15 AM |


Go screw yourself you willing dolt.... I remember how the dems talked when they thought they'd be the ones carrying the ball.

As we speak people (traitors on your side) are trying to flush those quotes, articles and all writings that convict leftist dem traitors from public record.

Your party leaders are out and out traitors and those of you that follow them and apologize for them are ignorantly willing gullible traducers.

The war is wrong and not the best thing for this country or our security.

Petraous and Crocker made a compelling case which says otherwise.

Which is why the Democrats lost.

After the one/two puch by Petraous and Crocker there is no way they will be able to cut off funding for the war and hand America the defeat they so desperately need.

As Thomas Sowell said today, "many Democrats have bet the rent money on an American defeat in Iraq, and without that defeat they could find themselves in big trouble in the 2008 elections.

Politically, the Democrats are caught between Iraq and a hard place. Their left-wing base has been angrily pressing them to cut off financial support for the war in Iraq but Congressional Democrats dare not outrage the rest of the country by doing that.

Leaders of the Democrats in Congress have already tried various ways of sabotaging the war effort, with arbitrary timetables for withdrawal and financing the war for only short periods, so that President Bush would be forced to pull out American troops and could then be blamed for the defeat.

But that hasn't worked either because not enough Democrats in Congress are willing to risk political suicide by obstructing the military in ways too blatant to pass muster with the public.

The next best thing politically for the Democrats is to say that the situation is hopeless. The last thing they need to hear is that there is now some progress in Iraq." www.townhall.com

Apparently, someone's Word of the Day calendar turned up "traducers" on September 11.

Hans

Apparently, someone's Word of the Day calendar turned up "traducers" on September 11.

Hans

Posted by Hans at 2007-09-11 09:29 AM |


Fitting to say the least;-)

Apparently, someone's Word of the Day calendar turned up "traducers" on September 11.

Hans

Posted by Hans at 2007-09-11 09:29 AM |


Never stop learning... You should try it.... Pull your head out of your ass on occassion. I'm sure it'll help.

Do have anything to add to this? The "THEY" part that is?


I'm impressed with this propaganda machine. They convinced us for a few weeks that there were WMDs and now they've turned an utter disaster into victory.

Good job until the cows come home. Then we will see what a great hero Betrayus is.

Posted by TurnLeftb42late at 2007-09-11 07:34 AM |

And the "few weeks"

What say you?

The war is wrong and not the best thing for this country or our security.

Petraous and Crocker made a compelling case which says otherwise.


and in February 2003 Powell made a compelling case for invasion of Iraq, all proved to be lies but still...

you send your dove to declare war and your hawk to declare peace

you send your general with the highest reputation to make the surge argument.

unfortunately time will tell that his predictions and assessments were wrong.

Got some things to do. I'll check back later...I think it's going to be a quiet day here.

The war was presented and authorized as a LAST resort. It was never presented as a given. Only to be used if Saddam failed to allow inspectors. We know the inspectors were asking for 2 more months they were denied.

OK Facts are we're there. I think Petraeus is an honorable man and doing the best job yet commanding U.S. Iraq forces in what could be called a terrible situation at best. However, the '6 month' surge was designed to give the Iraqi government a chance to get it's act together. Ambassador Crocker, who only answered one question yesterday, does't have a rosy story to tell. A return to pre-surge levels is now the best case scenario for the next 18 months. Iraq is far from stable and sectarian violence is rampant. A civil war rages as militias fight for control.

Now we have the latest '6 months' tacked onto the last '6 months' we were told this surge would last because the Iraqi government is in disarray with little or no progress being made politically. Military success will not guarantee political success. Diplomatic efforts remain a largely untried last resort for the WH.

Welcome to the 'new' new latest 6 months more as those who planned the attacks on U.S. soil regroup, plan, mock us, and live at large on the 6th anniversary of that horrible morning, and our president has yet to be held accountable his own for the tragedy Iraq became on his watch while Americans call each other traitors.
My how far we've come from the morning of 9/11 when we were all Americans in this thing together. We're a nation divided. That may be the biggest tragedy of all.

We're a nation divided. That may be the biggest tragedy of all.


And discussions like this one continue to expose the crew of neanderthals such as incubus, et al, for what they are, by giving them a forum to make their laughable "traitor" charges while holding fast to bumper-sticker talking points and simple-minded interpretations of reality. There was no vote on "the war", the vote was an "authorization", and the intent was NOT immediate war, but rather to support the president should such a war be necessary. Anyone who can still say that this war was NECESSARY is a true fool. The fact that they can't see the true nature (perhaps too subtle for them?) of the vote is testimony to the feebleness of their intellect, which is already evident.

Come on Midiman, it isn't as if they have been doing the same thing for five years is it???
They have???
Oh, sorry.

Don't look for America leaving Iraq anytime soon. Why? Because our involvement in that fiasco is to advance zionist (not Jewish) interests, and those interests have not been secured yet. Whether a man like Richard Perle, an unindicted co-conspirator in a 1970's Israeli espionage case, or a President who believes he is doing God's work and is content even if it results in the onset of Armegedon, too many leaders in this administration see Israel's enemies as America's enemies. While the focus yesterday was on Iraq, the big elephant in the room was Iran.

That is why Petraeus' reiteration of the Bush demonology of a "proxy war" and accusations of intervention by Iran is so frightening. We already know through the courage of a whistleblower that the military is transporting nuclear warheads to Barksdale AFB, the jumping off point for Middle East air operations. Can we not expect that this administration's animosity towards Iran will have consequences, especially as the "nothing is off the table" Democrats will not challenge it?


Perhaps the President of Iran is right in saying that Israel will blow away with the wind (only to be misrepresented as calling for extermination)- much as the poet described the kingdom of Osymandias- but does that justify a new war? Or perhaps America is going to hell in that man's opinion, does that justify a new war? The Soviets and Chinese have thought worse. But war is for control of territory and this administration is the one that wants to gain control in the Middle East. The US can trade for oil, it can coexist with non-democratic governments, but it can only protect Israel by controlling the Middle East. Bush knows the mission, Petraeus knows the mission, even the Democratic leadership knows the mission. Iraq now is merely the gateway to Iran.

all liberal papers with there own agenda, typical jimmy... get a life, why dont you move to Canada, they would love you there..

Come on Midiman, it isn't as if they have been doing the same thing for five years is it???
They have???
Oh, sorry.

Posted by danni


Yeah, you're right, sorry to say. :-)

"all liberal papers with there own agenda,"

KC101

When's the last time you bought a newspaper. Mine was probably 3 or 4 months ago. Most people aren't buying newspapers these days in case you weren't aware of that fact. However, everyone has a radio in their car that has 10 hours a day of nonstop rightwing blowhards who rarely let anyone but sycophants on the air.

KC101,

Can you please go in for "De-Programing" you repeat Exactly Word for Word what Sean And Rush say. Dude you sound like a Parrot. I use to be a Rush Robot "Ditto Head", I use to be glued to the TV when he was on in the 90's and even had a Clinton Backward Running Watch he use to sell, until I did My On Research on what he was saying and Discovered he was Lying !

So maybe if you did read a News Paper or Anything else other than NewsMax maybe you would get some "Objective Information"

-Sarge

""Is this the same man testifying before the Senate committee as we speak?""

Tony, I seem to remember another, very respected General who joined the administration and had his credibility destroyed, or at least severely damaged, when he presented the reasons for invading Iraq. I think this president puts these generals and former generals in a position where they have little choice except to further the agenda of the white house. I don't really blame Patreus but in 18 months people are going to be asking him, "why didn't you resign rather than "sell" the surge."

Bush knows the mission, Petraeus knows the mission, even the Democratic leadership knows the mission. Iraq now is merely the gateway to Iran.

Posted by njreader at 2007-09-11 11:31 AM |

Zactly, there's no partisanship when it comes to foriegn policy, just politics. The Big Players on both sides of the aisle are only to accutely congnizant of what's at stake.

I beg to differ with the entirety of your post though.

No, we can not exist with Sharia or Communism and it would be the epitome of self absorbtion to not intervene on behalf of those that do.

As a Christian I believe that Jesus was the only perfect being he died for our sins and that he also died in order to remove the law from us. Knowing our weaknesses, and allowing us to live and to learn from our mistakes(freewill) enables us to learn forgiveness because we learn that we are in such need of it ourselves. I do not believe you can know true forgiveness until you've truly forgiven yourself.

I can't imagine living under Sharia law and I can only sympathize for those less fortunate that do.

What is to be gained/learned from a life under Sharia, where, when free will is exercised it's often punishable by death?

Our souls all mature at different rates and times.

Does not God Judge and discipline right here on this earth by the laws of nature?

How many people are willing to share their life with an Adulterer?

How many people are willing to share/live thier life with a theif?

How many people are willing to live/share their life with a Liar?

How many people are willing to live/share their life with someone continually jealous or covetess of others?

These things are judged right here on this earth by God's laws of nature and the condition of the human heart he created.

If you practice these things most in society will shun you. If, after you practice these things and see the error of your ways most in a loving society will forgive you.

We are here to learn, to be molded and shaped by God's natural laws and the condition of the human heart he created.

I beg to differ with the entirety of your post. We can not co-exist with the evil of communism or Sharia,and it's immoral not to try to help those that do.

We're at war not only for resources that should be shared with the world in order to lift it up but we're at war with an ideology that kills the human spirit also.

Imagine a world where women are denigrated and sexually mutilated at a young age so that they won't wander. Imagine a world where the hands of a petty thief are chopped off. Imagine a world where the daughter that winds up pregnant out of wedlock can be killed by her own father. Imagine a world where a woman is raped and she's afraid to report it for fear she might be accussed of deserving it and be stonned to death.

Just imagine.

It can't be done all at once or overnight by men, but America has been a LIGHT to the world and has done more good for the world than any other country in the world before us.

Jesus said, you will not finish converting(showing them the way) them all before my return, that doesn't mean we should stop trying.

Truth,

Would that be the same intel that the Clinton Administration had as well. Damm Bush must be good if he can go back in time and twist intel for the prior President.

Ops, I forgot, you dont want to remember that Clinton said the exact same thing as far as Sadams capabilities and threat.

As far as INCUBUS quotes, they are dead on. If you care to take the time and look them up you will see but I am sure you are more happy denying them.

Face the facts, asswad, if Presiddent Bush has actually done what you claim he had done, he would have been impeached years ago. The fact is that all you have are lies and wishful thinking. When you can actually prove some of your accusations let me know.

Truth,

Are you fucking serious? Is your turbin on to tight? You are really going to post another BLOG and call that evidence? No wonder you are so damm stupid, you believe everything that you read on a blog. That shhit had been posted by someone just as stupid as you.

You want to make all these claims of torture. Now all you have to do is prove it. And here is a little secret for you "A LIBERAL BLOG IS NOT PROOF"

Sickof...

What about the now declassified NIE report delivered to Congress in the fall of 2002? Did you forget that it contained the ACTUAL FACTS regarding Iraq's then capabilities?

State/INR Alternative View of Iraq's Nuclear Program

The Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research (INR) believes that Saddam continues to want nuclear weapons and that available evidence indicates that Baghdad is pursuing at least a limited effort to maintain and acquire nuclear weapon-related capabilities. The activities we have detected do not, however, add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing what INR would consider to be an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquire nuclear weapons. Iraq may be doing so, but INR considers the available evidence inadequate to support such a judgment. Lacking persuasive evidence that Baghdad has launched a coherent effort to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program, INR is unwilling to speculate that such an effort began soon after the departure of UN inspectors or to project a timeline for the completion of activities it does not now see happening. As a result, INR is unable to predict when Iraq could acquire a nuclear device or weapon.

In INR's view Iraq's efforts to acquire aluminum tubes is central to the argument that Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program, but INR is not persuaded that the tubes in question are intended for use as centrifuge rotors. INR accepts the judgment of technical experts at the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) who have concluded that the tubes Iraq seeks to acquire are poorly suited for use in gas centrifuges to be used for uranium enrichment and finds unpersuasive the arguments advanced by others to make the case that they are intended for that purpose. INR considers it far more likely that the tubes are intended for another purpose, most likely the production of artillery rockets. The very large quantities being sought, the way the tubes were tested by the Iraqis, and the atypical lack of attention to operational security in the procurement efforts are among the factors, in addition to the DOE assessment, that lead INR to conclude that the tubes are not intended for use in Iraq's nuclear weapon program.

Confidence Levels for Selected Key Judgments in This Estimate

High Confidence:

* Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.

* We are not detecting portions of these weapons programs.

* Iraq possesses proscribed chemical and biological weapons and missiles.

* Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.
Moderate Confidence:

* Iraq does not yet have a nuclear weapon or sufficient material to make one but is likely to have a weapon by 2007 to 2009. (see INR alternative view, page 84).

Low Confidence:

* When Saddam would use weapons of mass destruction

* Whether Saddam would engage in clandestine attacks against the US Homeland.

* Whether in desperation Saddam would share chemical or biological weapons with al-Qa'ida.

""Jesus said, you will not finish converting(showing them the way) them all before my return, that doesn't mean we should stop trying.""

ER....so Bush was correct when he originally called the invasion a Crusade????
I thought you righties were misguided before, with talk like that....I know you are crazy.
We're apparently in this war to begin "converting" the Muslims.....OMG!!!!!

I never said the intel was true. What I said was President Bush did not go to war on manipulated intel.

I never said the intel was true. What I said was President Bush did not go to war on manipulated intel.

Posted by sickoflibs at 2007-09-11 03:59 PM | Reply

Sure did. I know it's tough pill to swallow but someday When You are in Your rocking chair whittling away at Your false teeth You will finally accept reality. I just hope and pray that You do not have a heart attack because of it.

Larry

I never said the intel was true. What I said was President Bush did not go to war on manipulated intel.

The FACT that the INR disputed almost every single point of Bush's rationale for invading Iraq and deposing Saddam is prima facia evidence that the other intel WAS cooked and purposefully misleading. How can one arrive at two totally opposite opinions if one is being faithful to finding the actual truth instead of shaping that truth into the form you want it to take so you can forward your own agenda?

As I said before, if this was true, he would most likely have been impeached.

Again, and you can spin it however you want, there is no evidence of your accusations. Just because you want to interpret something with a liberal twist does not make it fact.

By the way, I am not a big fan of President Bush but you are innocent until proven guilty. SO PROVE IT!!!

Danni Drivels....ER....so Bush was correct when he originally called the invasion a Crusade????

(Absolutely, only an illiterate could conclude otherwise)

I thought you righties were misguided before, with
talk like that....I know you are crazy.

(you delude yourself in order to deny reality believing you can save your own ass.)


We're apparently in this war to begin "converting" the Muslims.....OMG!!!!!

(As well as socialists and communists. BEGIN? Hardly, it's been happening throughout history, that you haven't kept or can't keep up is whose fault?)

Willingly ignorant traitors, the whole lot of you.

Any information coming out of the Generals mouth has to pass through several preliminary procedures.

First the raw information comes out of Shrubbie's mouth, then the onerous task of exiting Dickie's ass from which it must enter the matching orifice of the Generals. Last but not least the much awaited facts emerge and we are informed.

Keith, you are a dumbass.

(September 11, 2007) -- WASHINGTON -- Rep. Jim Walsh, in a dramatic break with the White House, returned Monday from a trip to Iraq saying it's time to bring troops home and stop funding the war.

The moderate Republican from Onondaga has struggled for months with conflicting emotions about the war.

"Before I went, I was not prepared to say it's time to start bringing our troops home," Walsh said. "I am prepared to say that now. It's time."

Walsh's announcement came as Gen. David Petraeus, the U.S. commander in Iraq, told House members that the troop "surge" has made progress.

But Walsh said he saw little evidence that much has changed in Iraq since he last visited four years ago. He said he hopes to meet with President Bush to convey his change of heart.

SICKOFLIBS

There are worse things in life.

I could be a conservative like you.

Sitting below a dumbass on the old frame, is the conservative hemorrhoid.

This country needs an ectomy.

I believe I posted this before...seems like at least a year ago now...still applies

The Plan

In the beginning was the Plan.
And then came the Assumptions.
And the assumptions were without form.
And the plan was without substance.
And darkness was upon the faces of the soldiers.
And they spoke among themselves saying, "It is a crock of shit and it stinks."
And the soldiers went unto their Sergeants and said, "It is a pail of dung and we cannot live with the smell."
And the Sergeants went unto their Captains saying, "It is a container of organic waste and it is very strong such that none may abide by it."
And the Captains went unto their Generals, saying, "It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide by it."
And the Generals spoke among themselves, saying to one another, "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very powerful."
And the Vice President went to the President, saying unto him, "This new plan will actively promote growth and vigor of Iraq with very powerful effects."
And the President looked upon the plan and saw that it was good.
And the plan became Policy.
And this is how shit happens.

""Willingly ignorant traitors, the whole lot of you.""

I'm sure you are enlisting today so that you can go over there and convert some Muslims. Take plenty of bibles with you because I am sure they will be in demand. Keep us here on Drudge informed about your progress. Go get em cowboy.
Oh, good luck.

Does the left believe that Petraeus is lying to help the President?

"Does the left believe that Petraeus is lying to help the President?"

Yes, no, and maybe but maybe not.
Cordially,
"The Left"

As I previously said Keith,

You are a dumbass!