"Skelton ordered the room be cleared of protestors. "Out they go," he said."

Not only did he throw out the vocal protesters, he also got rid of the silent ones who were holding signs. Is that allowed?

Even though I am one of the scumsucking traitorous lying commie democratics who want America to "loose" [sic] so that our enemies can win (in other words, a Bush critic), I think that Petraeus deserves the chance to answer the questions under the conditions of respect that he has certainly earned. The protestors can wait outside without doing any damage to their right of free speech.

But if all they are doing is holding a sign behind his back, how much of a disruption could they be?

One woman was pulled out screaming. Now THAT is disruptive.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

I do not think that protesters, protesting while the hearings are be conducted is a positive thing.

Let the hearings happen. It is not a place for the public to voice its opinion. It is a place for the public to be informed.

There is plenty of time to protest outside of the hearing room.

But if all they are doing is holding a sign behind his back, how much of a disruption could they be?


One woman was pulled out screaming. Now THAT is disruptive.

Posted by ness_gadol


Yeah, but to me these hearings are like courtroom procedures, or at least should be. Of course we know that the members use the cameras for their own theatrics, but signs, etc., would be covered by the nitwit media at the same level as the testimony itself.

I am one of the scumsucking traitorous lying commie democratics who want America to "loose"

Posted by midiman at 2007-09-10 02:03 PM


Well I can agree with yo on that.

What a dolt!!

When Frederick Douglass was asked by a young student what his advice he would give to young people his reply was "Agitate".


Fuck George Bush

Fuck His War.

3700 dead americans

for nothing

100's of thousands of dead iraqis

for nothing.

another report another lie

fuck George Bush

Fuck his war

The war was based on lies, has no meaning beyond the lies projected on it.

America is less safe because of it.

we cannot win in iraq, these words mean nothing.

we will bankrupt our nation, disrupt our military for years and anger the world.

Period.

Shortly before his death in 1895, Douglass was reported to have whispered to a young follower, "Agitate . . . agitate . . . agitate."

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.

...........in Communist Eastern Europe, before the fall of the Iron Curtain, the governments lied to the people so often, that people simply stopped believing anything the government said, regardless of whether it was true or false............

.............America is now approaching that state of mind.........

...........in Communist Eastern Europe, before the fall of the Iron Curtain, the governments lied to the people so often, that people simply stopped believing anything the government said, regardless of whether it was true or false............

.............America is now approaching that state of mind.........

Posted by skizziks at 2007-09-10 03:26 PM

No shit. Look at all those lies the Dems used to get the majority of both houses.

Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground.


To suppress free speech is a double wrong. It violates the rights of the hearer as well as those of the speaker.

"Look at all those lies the Dems used to get the majority of both houses."

For once I agree with you Crisp. The Dems used all those lies, misdirections and phoney boogeymen the Bush administration had been piling on the American people for 5 years.

we will bankrupt our nation, disrupt our military for years and anger the world.

Given that this country is being run by a oligarchy that ignores the needs of the citizens and acts in its own self interest, it might be a good time to start over.

Restore the Constitution and its intents, including the Bill of Rights and other amendments. Increase our representation in the government and flush out DC.

Well I can agree with yo on that.

What a dolt!!

Posted by crispee_oc


You agree with that post of mine and I'M the dolt?

You're not really THAT dumb, are you?

Your side is making itself laughable with these "traitor" remarks.

Midiman,
Am I not supposed to take your word out of context and call you a dolt? Let me think where I came up with that... Oh yeah:

can say many things. To bad it is meaningless.
Posted by crispee_oc


Well, I agree with you on that.

What a dolt.

Posted by midiman at 2007-09-07 05:58 AM

Compared to last year, I'm glad the surge is working and violence has been declining, which also means less death, and some of the troops can start coming home. Iraq still has a long ways to go as it's problem is a very complex one, and needs better political leadership, but until the next Iraqi election, there is nothing they can do about the current government.

The Dem's have turned the Iraq rebuilding operation into a political battlefield for votes, and no general should be swayed by any of them in making their decisions about the situation.

**** No shit. Look at all those lies the Dems used to get the majority of both houses.

Posted by crispee_oc ****

......I did not restrict the remark to either party......both are guilty to various degrees......

......but our democracy has descended to a sad state, and I lament its decline.........

........we should be working to save our democracy at home before we try exporting it in the future...........

For once I agree with you Crisp. The Dems used all those lies, misdirections and phoney boogeymen the Bush administration had been piling on the American people for 5 years.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-09-10 03:33 PM

Bush learned from the best. The previous Administration.

Bush learned from the best. The previous Administration.

Clinton started a massively unpopular and expensive war that he knew he couldn't finish?

"Bush learned from the best. The previous Administration."

Clinton lead us into a war of regime change and occupation that resulted in the deaths of 3700 (and counting) American young people and the wounding/maiming of 10's of thousands more?

I missed that, I guess.

PS: I knew you would never be able to avoid that old "Somebody else, sometime, somewhere, did something so that excuses my guy" defense. {Commonly referred to as a Clinton Deflection(TM)}

"Bush learned from the best. The previous Administration."

I missed that, I guess.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-09-10 03:59 PM

Who better to learn from how to lie, manipulate, mislead... Not a deflection, just the truth. Clinton and company were great liars.

this may surprise some of you but I dont see anything wrong with civil disobedience..
but when they are arrested, throw thier ass in jail rather than move them out and say......bad bad...


ANNOUNCEMENT FORTHCOMING.......


OIL DEAL IN THE WORKS TO BE ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK

and in no part is there a part where bush gets so much from each barrel or sends any to cheney by way of haliburton.......

and IF that works out.....that has to be REALLY BAD NEWS FOR you here as well as the assholes on cspan who are making complete fools of themselves like lantros calling the general a liar BEFORE HE EVER SAYS ONE WORD...........

and the general who said in the opening that this is HIS REPORT AND HAS NOT BEEN finnalized by bush or anyone at the white house....of course remember this american hero is just a liar and a bush lackey......so what the hell...........


HEY TRUTH......please once again tell us about the bush lies...

OIL............agreement doesnt say that IF passed

WMD.....everyone KNEW HE HAD THEM AT ONE TIME..

a part of 9/11......BUSH HAS NEVER SAID THAT........

iraqis deserve freedom...........BILL CLINTON SAID THAT TOO WHEN HE SIGNED THE iraqi freedom act in OCTOBER OF 1998!!!!!!!!!


so now.......where are the lies........
and I am really not trying to be confrontational, just want to read where the lies you talk about are.......

I suppose Bush's Daddy was a straight shooter???

Please don't make me laugh.

Oh, REagan was too.

Uh-huh. Right.

FAct is they all lie but few lie just to drag us into a disastrous war like Dumbya did.

Remember Clinton lied nobody died.

and as to the oil deal.....YES we have heard that before......

WHAT....they got our constitution right the first time......if thats true then whatever happened to those articles of confederation.......wasnt that the name....


this one is supposed to give more central controll and a larger chunk to the kurds........

but of course thats probably just a lie...like everything else...dont you know????????

AND the deal info comes from newsday......

Clinton and company were great liars.

Politicians lie. What differentiates them is the severity and repercussions of the lies.

Lying about a blowjob didn't get anyone killed, and the only financial effect was the millions of dollars that the right spent trying to learn every sordid detail.

Bush's lies have killed many, many people, and have cost this country not only an incredible sum of money, but also the respect of our world neighbors.

Clinton's lies didn't make the world think less of the U.S.

Bush's did.

Get it?

Did you even read that link, Soggee OC?

" The Bush administration's propensity for Orwellian language was demonstrated when Marine Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, justified the air strikes as a necessary response to Iraqi ``aggression.'' The Iraqi government has certainly engaged in acts of aggression in the past, such as its invasion of Iran in 1980 and its invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Yet this may be the first time in history that the use of radar to track foreign military aircraft encroaching within a country's internationally recognized airspace has been declared an act of aggression."

Clinton may have had an incorrect policy, but Bush made it worse. Worse.

As in: the opposite of better.

So if Clinton was "bad," Bush is "worse."

Are you this dense in real life?

Clinton's lies didn't make the world think less of the U.S.

Bush's did.

Get it?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:14 PM |

Funny how you point out only one of the proven lies. Somehow you forget Clinton lied about Saddam and his intentions getting weapons of mass destruction. What's even funnier is the so called mantra how the world thinks of us. Seeing as none of these Countries have refused the billions and billions of dollars we send year after year. Or all the foreign investments into the American economy, the military protections, the thousands upon thousands who want to become American citizens....

Clinton's lies didn't make the world think less of the U.S.

Bush's did.

Get it?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:14 PM |

Just a little less dense than you Ness. At least I only care about America and American interests. Instead of the little whiners crying the rest of the world doesn't like us. Like some little schoolgirl wanting to be popular.

iraqis deserve freedom...........BILL CLINTON SAID THAT TOO WHEN HE SIGNED THE iraqi freedom act in OCTOBER OF 1998!!!!!!!!!

But he didn't invade and occupy the country.
A little difference there don't ya thing?

Hey the Chinese peoople deserve freedom from their oppressors, so do the N. Koreans. We going to invade those countries???

and of course there is NEVER ANY TALK of the countries who didnt go with us and then we find out they were in business with sadaam......


and there is always a lot of talk about bush lies...

and I still havent read one here.....not anything that anyone else didnt believe either.........


and to be fair......there have been some tough and good questions from the last couple of dems.....off coures one was from missiSLippi and the other from american samoa.....

BUT THEY HAD BETTER BE CAREFULL>.......GEORGE SOROS MIGHT BE WATCHING AND THEY will be in a shit load of trouble then next election.........

But he didn't invade and occupy the country.
A little difference there don't ya thing?

Posted by danni at 2007-09-10 04:26 PM

Sure. It is typical Dem policy. All show and no go. Hell Danni you probably have bigger balls than Clinton.

At least I only care about America and American interests.

Yeah, cause the U.S. is floating in a void of it's own influence, and nothing we do internationally will ever have any effect on us in return.

Typical self-absorbed rethug: "Me, me, me, and fuck the rest of you."

Last time I was in Europe, people were treating Americans like jokes. That's not a good feeling.

Like some little schoolgirl wanting to be popular.

Wanting? We WERE popular. To continue your simile, it's more like the well-liked kid who gets caught jacking off in the bathroom. You lose credibility, you lose support, and, most importantly, you lose respect.

In summation, "Don't shit where you eat, my friend."

-WEEN

Ness


I guess you didnt get to France, then.....
or at least talk to the new french president...

anyway........


GEOF DAVIS from kentucky.......FOR PRESIDENT..

he just slammed the dems who had run thier mouths when he just said something about the iraqi parliment getting more things past than our own congress...................YEO
W!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that had to hurt..........


everything we predicted is coming true as I watch this........most dems had thier mind made up before he ever opened his mouth.

they just cant agree with him on anything....
they will get reprimanded by moveon.org and shehaan like dems.............thats called being invested in defeat........

Testifying in a military uniform bearing four general's stars and a chestful of medals,

I would have thought he would show up in sweats and tennis shoes. Why would a general in the army show up at a congressional hearing with his uniform on? The nerve of him.

"it's more like the well-liked kid who gets caught jacking off in the bathroom."

Uhm, hypothetically, I'm sure Ness!

past = passed........(*TOY BOAT TOY BOAT )

Good day, Bushlover,

My, my...aren't you looking more delusional than ever.

Typical self-absorbed rethug: "Me, me, me, and fuck the rest of you."

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:29 PM

I see that dense question is coming into to play. You must not have read your own paste. I will include it so you can try and come back with something that doesn't make you look like a Dem. I mean fool.

"At least I only care about America and American interests."
How does that show me, me, me I,I,I ? If anything it is your side of the aisle who continues to piss and moan about their own selfish interests. I agree with the fuck the rest of you. Except that is to these so called Countries who in your words don't respect us.

Uhm, hypothetically, I'm sure Ness!

I'm just waiting for a "sounds like a personal experience, Ness" post.

That would be incorrect though.






I was never liked. ;)

How does that show me, me, me I,I,I ?

You failed the analogies part of the SAT, didn't you?

LISA BABY.......

hows it hangin?????



interesting info now.....

general going through the various kinds of iraqi military,.

special forces
commandos
security and other police

etc..............media never talks about any of those and IT COULD BE A SECURITY thing but I doubt it...........and he called them "exceptional" at the upper end...........but thats not to say they are ready to take over themselves......

and look at this...


what show was it that showed one thing about or congress....

that they are riddled with....


BAD HAIR>.............abercrombie from hawai is in real need of a combover or something......

but again......just notice the REALLY BAD HAIR IN DC................ha ha



and now of course there is yet another dem who starts off....."thank you for your service" and then calls the general a liar...........how pathetic...........

I was never liked. ;)

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:38 PM

Probably as a result of all that jerking off in the bathroom.

Last time I was in Europe, people were treating Americans like jokes. That's not a good feeling.

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:29 PM

Next time you spend your money in these Countries who don't respect us, get a picture of all the cemeteries where American soldiers are buried. Remind them they would be speaking German, or Russian if it wren't for the United States. The fact you don't stand up to these ungrateful pieces of shit shows you're true colors.

Probably as a result of all that jerking off in the bathroom.

We have a wiener! Er, winner!

The fact you don't stand up to these ungrateful pieces of shit shows you're true colors.

When did I say that?

Actually, a lot of the people I met had a more favorable view of Americans after meeting one that didn't fit their stereotype of an overweight, mouth-breathing, Bush supporter.

The fact you don't stand up to these ungrateful pieces of shit shows you're true colors.

When did I say that?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:51 PM |

You had that opportunity when you cried about some feeling of not being respected. Maybe you should ask yourself why you didn't elaborate. Since you chose not to I concluded you did nothing.

get a picture of all the cemeteries where American soldiers are buried. Remind them they would be speaking German, or Russian if it wren't for the United States.

That kind of "respect capital" can only last so long. Consistency is more important than a series of noble acts over half a century ago.

For example, let's say last year I rescued one of the 57 cats you undoubtedly own from a tree. You'd appreciate that, and we'd be cool. Since that time, however, I stole your mail, egged your house, and did donuts on your lawn. We're not so cool anymore, right?

You really think, when you come to my door with a baseball bat to cave in my skull, that I can point to that one incidence where I saved your cat and say "See! We helped you out that one time!"? Doesn't work that way.

Since you chose not to I concluded you did nothing.

You're admitting that you put words in my mouth?

That's nice of you. At least you're honest.

"At least I only care about America and American interests. Instead of the little whiners crying the rest of the world doesn't like us. Like some little schoolgirl wanting to be popular.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 04:24 PM"

Talk about a weak analogy.

"Probably as a result of all that jerking off in the bathroom.

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 04:45 PM"

RightO, I posted with 101: I knew 101; 101 was a friend of mine. RightO, you're no 101.

You really think, when you come to my door with a baseball bat to cave in my skull, that I can point to that one incidence where I saved your cat and say "See! We helped you out that one time!"? Doesn't work that way.



Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 04:55 PM

That's your best analogy of our debate?? Are you fucking kidding me? It may have been long ago, but we are still there protecting them. We are still pouring millions of dollars into these Countries who don't respect us. Sorry Ness. I will not feel guilty and will continue to say fuck you as long as there is American presence and dollars going there.

"Since you chose not to I concluded you did nothing.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 04:53 PM"

A certain quote by Walter Matthau in the Bad News Bears comes to mind.

"but we are still there protecting them.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 05:00 PM"

From who?

"but we are still there protecting them.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 05:00 PM"

From who?

Posted by mOntecOre at 2007-09-10 05:03 PM

Not really sure from who. Why are we still in Germany, Japan, South Korea etc. etc. etc.

It may have been long ago, but we are still there protecting them.

Are we now?

Please explain how current U.S. foreign policy is protecting...say...the Netherlands.

Not really sure from who.

Surprise, surprise.

Please explain how current U.S. foreign policy is protecting...say...the Netherlands.

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 05:04 PM

I was talking about our miltary and pacts with these Countries.

How is our foreign policy hurting you Ness?? What have you had to change? Since it is so important in your eyes how the world views us? What has all these terrible policies cost you?

crisp.
you are correct,

there has never been another country in the history of the world who has shed so much blood for others to have freedom from oppression and tyranny.....
something leftists dont want to think about most of the time........



and remember that these are people who write on this site ALL OF THE TIME>.........things that sound EXACTLY LIKE BIN LADEN DID ON his last little speach from the room outside of the cave, just the other day.

AND LADIES AND GENTLEMEN>....

its now MARGARITA TIME IN TEXAS>..

YES!!!!!!!!!

c ya later.
hell for a minute I thought I was watching
on the democrat campaign trail on cspan..

BUT maybe since bin laden cant run for the dem nomination, he could sure as hell give the keynote speach.........and when that happens I hope that we can get a copy of that tape from the other day and see how THEY ARE SAYING THE SAME DAMNED THING.......

Not really sure from who.

Surprise, surprise.

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 05:06 PM |

Well since you are in agreement with Monte... Why don't you step up like a good little Dem and call for all our bases around the world to close and tell all the leaders of these Countries so long?

AND LADIES AND GENTLEMEN>....


its now MARGARITA TIME IN TEXAS>..

I have to agree. Except in Cali not Texas. Although I need have a Margarita in Texas. She tasted salty also.

How is our foreign policy hurting you Ness?? What have you had to change? Since it is so important in your eyes how the world views us? What has all these terrible policies cost you?

I am a citizen of this country. The cost to this country is a cost to me, both monetary and in terms of liberties.

I am a citizen of this country. The cost to this country is a cost to me, both monetary and in terms of liberties.




Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 05:17 PM | R

Such as? I am not trying to be the normal asshole I am, but what have you had to change? How has it effected your day to day life? You posted earlier you went to Europe. So that didn't have any effect. What liberties have YOU been denied? Just you and those you care about. What has changed in the lst 6 years? I have yet to see anything in my life and my everyday practices altered or different.

Why don't you step up like a good little Dem and call for all our bases around the world to close and tell all the leaders of these Countries so long?

I never said that we should close bases.

but what have you had to change?

I wear sandals to the airport because the government thinks I might have a bomb in my shoe. I can no longer say certain things on the telephone because I don't know if someone is listening to me or not. I'm hesitant to join activists groups for a similar reason.

I wear sandals to the airport because the government thinks I might have a bomb in my shoe. I can no longer say certain things on the telephone because I don't know if someone is listening to me or not. I'm hesitant to join activists groups for a similar reason.


Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 05:27 PM |


I just love this one! Thanks for posting it, you folks are to much.

And yet you expect Iraqis to step up to the plate while the democrats chant "abandon them"

Hypocrite.

"while the democrats chant "abandon them" "

Since you put those words in quotes, do you actually have a link where a Democrat uttered those words, or are you just throwing feces against the wall again?

while the democrats chant "abandon them" "

Since you put those words in quotes, do you actually have a link where a Democrat uttered those words, or are you just throwing feces against the wall again?

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 06:05 PM


Incubus I apologize if I am stepping on your toes... Is it feces against the wall when the leader of the Senate says the war is lost from the podium of the USS? How about a co-chair of a committee claiming our troops are terrorizing the Iraqui women and children in the dead of night? You really haven't heard all the negative, vile, disgusting rhetoric from every leading Dem? Under the guise of disent?

If you cant maybe you need to rethink what you ditto heads are being told to think.

news.bbc.co.uk

Posted by Fenderwa41 at 2007-09-10 06:09 PM |

You trust the BBC? Whos is being the dittohead?

So I translated, sue me.

Main Entry: 1abandon
Pronunciation: '-ban-d'n
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English abandounen, from Anglo-French abanduner, from (mettre) a bandun to hand over, put in someone's control
Date: 14th century
1 a: to give up to the control or influence of another person or agent b: to give up with the intent of never again claiming a right or interest in
2: to withdraw from often in the face of danger or encroachment
3: to withdraw protection, support, or help from

And yet you expect Iraqis to step up to the plate while the democrats chant "abandon them"

Hypocrite.

I never said I expect them to step up to anything. Iraq as it was pre-invasion is gone. It will never come back.

Say Crispee... What kind of feces would you call this?

WALLACE: Now, the president never said that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat. As you saw, you did say that. If anyone hyped the intelligence, isn't it Jay Rockefeller?

ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I'll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11

You trust the BBC?

Well, people always cry foul about the liberal or conservative media in this country, so does it not make sense to go to another, more objective country for news reporting?

I read the BBC and NHK (Tokyo) sites regularly.

HEY TRUTH......please once again tell us about the bush lies...

OIL............agreement doesnt say that IF passed

WMD.....everyone KNEW HE HAD THEM AT ONE TIME..

a part of 9/11......BUSH HAS NEVER SAID THAT........



very simple, wars are only for self defense

iraq posed no threat to the US

Bush knew that and lied and bullshitted you into thinking iraq was a threat

it was a war of aggression

yuou are too stupid to understand that.

"So I translated, sue me."

i.e., Feces.

Typical Rush bullshit. Put words in someone's mouth, then attack them for what they didn't say.

Bush knew that and lied and bullshitted you into thinking iraq was a threat

it was a war of aggression

yuou are too stupid to understand that.

Posted by truthhurts at 2007-09-10 06:21 PM

Including every Dem who voted for the authorization? Or is it just the Republicans who are stupid?

"Is it feces against the wall when the leader of the Senate says the war is lost from the podium of the USS?"

We won the war by April 1st, 2003 We haven't won the peace

What do you call the Vice President of The United States telling a sitting Senator to 'fuck off' on the the Senate floor? OK? For some reason, too many think that expressing our views about our government's actions is no longer acceptable. Thomas Jefferson would take great issue with that idea. Our founding fathers encouraged dissent. That's what a democracy is all about.

As to our overseas image.... Too many Americans, most in fact, have never traveled farther than Mexico or Canada or some vacation spot in the Caribbean. We're in a unique situation being separated from most of the world by oceans.

Ness is right. Our image around the world is very bad because of Bush, and Iraq as well. Telling them we saved their ass in 1944 has nothing to do with foreign trade or our alliances with traditional allies. When our credibility is lost it affects our ability to exert influence in any number of ways around the world.

I wear sandals to the airport because the government thinks I might have a bomb in my shoe. I can no longer say certain things on the telephone because I don't know if someone is listening to me or not. I'm hesitant to join activists groups for a similar reason.


Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-09-10 05:27 PM |


I just love this one! Thanks for posting it, you folks are to much.

And yet you expect Iraqis to step up to the plate while the democrats chant "withdraw!"

Hypocrite.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-09-10 05:59 PM

Happy now?

And yet you expect Iraqis to step up to the plate while the democrats chant "withdraw!"

They want us to leave.

What don't you understand about that?

What do you call the Vice President of The United States telling a sitting Senator to 'fuck off' on the the Senate floor? OK?

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-09-10 06:24 PM

A hero. Pat Leahy is nothing but a old bag of wind. Why do you think Cheney told him to go fuck himself? Would you shake hands with a scum who has shown nothing but contempt for you and the office you hold? Calling you every name in the book? It is to bad Cheney didn't bitch slap him.

Including every Dem who voted for the authorization? Or is it just the Republicans who are stupid?

Posted by crispee_oc




coconspirators but it was politically tough to stand up to your president screaming about mushroom clouds knowingly and deceptively scaring the shit out of americans.

Dateline September 10, 2007

Today Senate Democrats yielded again to Republican demands that they quit calling for withdrawal from Vietnam. As Gen. Westmorland has told us for 35 years now, we need to stay the course. Leaving now would send the wrong message to the South Vietnamese government, who have yet to install a stable and non-corrupt government. Westmorland states that only by continuing to support the South Vietnamese government will they reach political reconciliation with the North enabling American forces to withdraw.

The U.S. casualty toll currently stands at 478,756

(We'd still be in Vietnam if there hadn't been dissent)

thank you larry

of course a week before we invaded iraq, cnn tells the world how the case against iraq was based on embarrassingly bad forgeries.

coconspirators but it was politically tough to stand up to your president screaming about mushroom clouds knowingly and deceptively scaring the shit out of americans.


Posted by truthhurts at 2007-09-10 06:34 PM

Well it didn't seem to hurt Feingold, Obama, and every other Dem who took the time to read up on the Intel and vote their what they read. Not what was politically popular.

NP TruthHurts anytime.

Larry

Gee, Bush didn't say it...just his Secretary of State Bolton, as if a SECSTATE gets to mouth off whatever he/she wants without the President's approval. Pretty damn intellectually dishonest.

from the government's own website:
www.state.gov

more:
rawstory.com



Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 06:27 PM


I'll bet most things sail right over your head.


|ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I'll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11



The man took an unsancitoned trip to the middle east and tipped off Syria prior to our invasion of Iraq. It's called treason.

We'd still be in Vietnam if there hadn't been dissent)

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-09-10 06:36 PM |


Prove it.

Prove it.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-09-10 06:42 PM | Reply

We aren't there now are We.

Larry

"...it was my view..."

This means it was his opinion. Did you know that, and purposefully misdirect, or are you ignorant of what "my view" means?

I'll bet ants sail right over your head.

It is to bad Cheney didn't bitch slap him.

Yeah, cause that's the kind of behavior I expect from my highest elected officials.

Get real.

Prove it.

I will as soon as you prove that invading Iraq has had a positive impact on American security.

Psst CRISPEE

Obama wasn't in the Senate when the Iraq War authorization vote was taken.

Psst CRISPEE

Obama wasn't in the Senate when the Iraq War authorization vote was taken.


Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-09-10 06:49 P

My error American. Not that it changes the post. Which I noticed you didn't refute.

INCUBUS

It took years of public protests and Congressional calls for withdrawal to get us out of Vietnam. I know. I was a young man then.

The Republicans were saying exactly the same things about Vietnam and 'defeatists' back then as we hear now over Iraq.

It was ONLY because of the rising tide of dissent that we ever withdrew. Without it we'd still be there. Well, unless the NVA just totally took over the South. In spite of 500,000 troops in country, millions of bombs and missions, we weren't any closer to 'winning' in Vietnam the day we started drawing down than the day we escalated our involvement on a massive scale in 1965.

We were going backwards the whole time. And it wasn't because we didn't have every single thing the military asked for either. it just wasn't a 'winnable' situation with a South Vietnamese government that refused to 'stand up'. NO one stood in America's way. Even Johnson wanted out a year after ordering our ramp up to the levels we kept for close to another decade. He realized the error of his ways very soon.

Incubus,
I think you gave them enough to swallow. I would bet there are just as many quotes since then by the same Dem leaders running away from their own words. BTW were they all lying and using scare tactics?

Patraeous

Betray us

equals the same thing

Where are you folks?

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-09-10 07:04 PM |

1 Scrambling.
2 Looking for the right talking points.
3 Praying for a deflection from the truth.
4 All of the above.

INCUBUS

Congress voted to give the authorization for Bush to use as a last resort. Instead, Bush used it as a first resort before weapons inspections were completed, before our allies agreed it was time. despite the urgent calls from our ME allies not to do it, in spite of evidence that to do so would lead to chaos and a destabilization that would be hard to recover from.

That's where everyone gets confused.

Bwahahahaha! To prove his point, Incubus uses an assessments from 5 to 10 years ago.

Clinton, by his actions, thought Saddam was contained well enough, whereas it was Boy George who occupied and invaded. But you don't know the difference between rhetoric and invasion...do you? Clinton, by his actions, thought Saddam was contained well enough. It was Boy George who occupied and invaded. Big difference, in case you hadn't noticed.

BTW were they all lying and using scare tactics?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 07:03 PM |

Of course not, dems don't lie or use scare tactics.

It's all Bush's fault. Gessshhhh everyone knows that.

Bwahahahaha! To prove his point, Incubus uses an assessments from 5 to 10 years ago.

Clinton, by his actions, thought Saddam was contained well enough, whereas it was Boy George who occupied and invaded. But you don't know the difference between rhetoric and invasion...do you? Clinton, by his actions, thought Saddam was contained well enough. It was Boy George who occupied and invaded. Big difference, in case you hadn't noticed.

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:06 PM |

I guess you missed BL2's post at 7:06

iraqis deserve freedom...........BILL CLINTON SAID THAT TOO WHEN HE SIGNED THE iraqi freedom act in OCTOBER OF 1998!!!!!!!!!


so now.......where are the lies........
and I am really not trying to be confrontational, just want to read where the lies you talk about are.......

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-09-10 04:09 PM

Why would Clinton need a Iraqi invasion plan if he thought they were contained????

We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose.

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:10 PM | Reply

We know for a fact Saddam violated the UN Cease Fire Agreement at least 17 times. We know there were hundreds of backdoor deals from the UN Oil Fir Food Report and can't account for billions of dollars. We know Saddam was receiving illegal silkworm missiles from China...

US Senators who voted YES to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq:



Allard, Wayne (R-CO)
Allen, George (R-VA)
Baucus, Max (D-MT)
Bayh, Evan (D-IN)
Bennett, Robert (R-UT)
Biden, Joseph (D-DE)
Bond, Christopher (R-MO)
Breaux, John (D-LA)
Brownback, Sam (R-KS)
Bunning, Jim (R-KY)
Burns, Conrad (R-MT)
Campbell, Ben (R-CO)
Cantwell, Maria (D-WA)
Carnahan, Jean (D-MO)
Carper, Thomas (D-DE)
Cleland, Max (D-GA)
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY)
Cochran, Thad (R-MS)
Collins, Susan (R-ME)
Craig, Larry (R-ID)
Crapo, Michael (R-ID)
Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
DeWine, Mike (R-OH)
Dodd, Christopher (D-CT)
Domenici, Pete (R-NM)
Dorgan, Byron (D-ND)

Edwards, John (D-NC)
Ensign, John (R-NV)
Enzi, Michael (R-WY)
Feinstein, Dianne (D-CA)
Fitzgerald, Peter (R-IL)
Frist, Bill (R-TN)
Gramm, Phil (R-TX)
Grassley, Chuck (R-IA)
Gregg, Judd (R-NH)
Hagel, Chuck (R-NE)
Harkin, Tom (D-IA)
Hatch, Orrin (R-UT)
Helms, Jesse (R-NC)
Hollings, Ernest (D-SC)
Hutchinson, Tim (R-AR)
Hutchison, Kay (R-TX)
Inhofe, James (R-OK)
Johnson, Tim (D-SD)
Kerry, John (D-MA)
Kohl, Herb (D-WI)
Kyl, Jon (R-AZ)
Landrieu, Mary (D-LA)
Lieberman, Joseph (D-CT)
Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)
Lott, Trent (R-MS)
Lugar, Richard (R-IN)

McCain, John (R-AZ)
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY)
Miller, Zell (D-GA)
Murkowski, Lisa (R-AK)
Nelson, Bill (D-FL)
Nelson, Ben (D-NE)
Nickles, Don (R-OK)
Reid, Harry (D-NV)
Roberts, Pat (R-KS)
Rockefeller, John (D-WV)
Santorum, Rick (R-PA)
Schumer, Charles (D-NY)
Sessions, Jeff (R-AL)
Shelby, Richard (R-AL)
Smith, Robert (R-NH)
Smith, Gordon (R-OR)
Snowe, Olympia (R-ME)
Specter, Arlen (R-PA)
Stevens, Ted (R-AK)
Thomas, Craig (R-WY)
Thompson, Fred (R-TN)
Thurmond, Strom (R-SC)
Torricelli, Robert (D-NJ)
Voinovich, George (R-OH)
Warner, John (R-VA)

Which ones of the above, Rs or Ds, voted to underman or underplan? Which voted to ignore the ammo dumps and museums and guard the oil fields? Which voted to de-Ba'athify?

Fact is, authorization or not, the neocon architects who have been calling all the shots since day one are responsible for this clusterfuck, something you'll never hear from the so-called "party of responsibility".

Because what happened was the information that we got on the intelligence committee was, was relatively consistent with what I was getting from former Clinton administration officials

In an interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in the latest issue of The New Yorker, Edwards said: "I was convinced that Saddam had chemical and biological weapons and was doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons. There was some disparity in the information I had about how far along he was in that process. I didn't rely on George Bush for that. And I personally think there's some dishonesty in suggesting that members of the United States Senate relied on George Bush for that information, because I don't think it's true. It's great politics. But it's not the truth."

EDWARDS: Well, the first thing I should say is I take responsibility for my vote. Period. And I did what I did based upon a belief, Chris, that Saddam Hussein's potential for getting nuclear capability was what created the threat. That was always the focus of my concern. Still is the focus of my concern.

So did I get misled? No. I didn't get misled.

Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York. "The intelligence from Bush 1 to Clinton to Bush 2 was consistent" in concluding Saddam had chemical and biological weapons and was trying to develop a nuclear capability, Clinton said this morning. And Saddam's expulsion of weapons inspectors and "the behavior" of his regime "pointed to a continuing effort" to produce WMD, she added

Crispee please do get more educated upon the subject matter at hand. Saddam Hussein did NOT Violate any cease Fire. He did not reinvade Kuwait. The Permanent Cease Fire was put into place APril of 1991. It was Formally ended in UN Resolution 687 articles 33 and 34. Who did Saddam Hussein reinvade or hell even invade after APril 1991. Who did Saddam Hussein attack??

Larry

Bwahahahaha! To prove his point, Incubus uses an assessments from 5 to 10 years ago.


Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:06 PM |

What a bunch of partisan hack traitors you people are.

Just 5 years ago? What year did we invade Iraq, genius?

saddam hussein wasnt a threat
sorry you are wrong.


NO EVIDENCE

forgeries an embarrassing fake.

would we be in iraq if bush hadnt pushed for it?

Clinton, by his actions, thought Saddam was contained well enough, whereas it was Boy George who occupied and invaded. But you don't know the difference between rhetoric and invasion...do you? Clinton, by his actions, thought Saddam was contained well enough. It was Boy George who occupied and invaded. Big difference, in case you hadn't noticed.

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:06 PM |

BILL CLINTON SAID THAT TOO WHEN HE SIGNED THE iraqi freedom act in OCTOBER OF 1998!!!!!!!!!

Why would Clinton need a Iraqi invasion plan if he thought they were contained????

Since you had time to talk about responsibility when it comes to being wrong. Here is your chance to answer the question. Again.
Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 07:11 PM

Oh and Crispee I wouldn't be bringing up that Oil for food deal if I was You. We were chgiefly responsible for those backdoor deals and we was the chief violator of said UN Oil for Food Program. You REALLY want to go there Crispee??

Larry

Inky-

Right now all the usual suspects are putting their fingers in their ears and covering their eyes because they never want to be reminded that the heroes of the Left said the same things that "Bushco" said prior to the invasion. Unlike the Administration, they can now disavow those statements, saying that they were "misled" or "lied" to. By whom, it is unclear, but the implication is that it was Bush and Cheney.

Who knew that they were weaving their web of deceit as early as the first Clinton Administration? For a couple of "stupid war criminals", they are pretty damn clever.

LOL

saddam hussein wasnt a threat
sorry you are wrong.


NO EVIDENCE

forgeries an embarrassing fake.



would we be in iraq if bush hadnt pushed for it?

Posted by truthhurts at 2007-09-10 07:23 PM |

Yet you omit every quote posted by Incubus as though they never were said. Shocking.

We know Saddam was receiving illegal silkworm missiles from China...

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 07:16 PM | Reply


Prove it!!!!!!!

Larry

They're disgusting Righto... As Tad accurately refers to them "Puling Hypocrites"

You don't step up the rehtoric for 8 years of a Democrat presidency, then vote to go to war and get a pass in my book.

Screw em all. I hope they rot in hell.

Traitors, the lot of em.

Oh and Crispee I wouldn't be bringing up that Oil for food deal if I was You. We were chgiefly responsible for those backdoor deals and we was the chief violator of said UN Oil for Food Program. You REALLY want to go there Crispee??

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:24 PM

Abso-fucking-lutely. I don't give a rats ass which people are implicated. As far as I am concerned this story has been pushed under the rug. If our Government was as involved as the French, Germans, Chinese etc. then they should be charged and punished. Even if it is Bush, Cheney, Rice Rove....

Right now all the usual suspects are putting their fingers in their ears and covering their eyes because they never want to be reminded that the heroes of the Left said the same things that "Bushco" said prior to the invasion. Unlike the Administration, they can now disavow those statements, saying that they were "misled" or "lied" to. By whom, it is unclear, but the implication is that it was Bush and Cheney.

Who knew that they were weaving their web of deceit as early as the first Clinton Administration? For a couple of "stupid war criminals", they are pretty damn clever.


LOL

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

That is typical of You ROC You declare Dubya is responsible for the Military but Yet You lack the courage and baqlls to accept Dubya is to Blame. You righties want to rid Yourselves oif thaty Blood that is Upon Your hands for Your supporty of the illegal invasion of Iraq. It's not going awqay RightOCenter never will it go away. You have to accept responsibility for Your support. Something You righties declare all of the time. Republicans are the moral major they are the party of Responsibility. Well when push comes to shove Where are You with Your personal responsibility. No where to be found. You can not take ownership of Your actions nor deeds when they go south. I call that immature. Why am I not surprized.

Sincerely
Lawrence Mohr

Yet you omit every quote posted by Incubus as though they never were said. Shocking.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 07:26 PM |

I once was shocked but not any more.

"Here is your chance to answer the question. Again."

Here's my answer. Again:

One invaded and occupied, to the tune of thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of lives, and, eventually, trillions of dollars.

One didn't.

Do you know the difference between rhetoric and invasion?

For example, there has been a lot of jawing about North Korea over the last few years. Is that the same as invading?

"Jordan has made clear its choice for peace and normalization with Israel," Armitage said, calling Jordan "an important U.S. friend" and citing its 2001 free trade treaty with the United States.

"U.S. assistance provides the Jordanian government needed flexibility to pursue policies that are of critical importance to U.S. national security and to foreign policy objectives in the Middle East," Armitage said.

Economic and military ties to Turkey were cited by Talbott and Armitage in justifying waivers of U.S. penalties to Iraq's northern neighbor. Indeed, their memos advocated hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the U.S. allies.

Talbott's memo praised Turkey for deploying troops to the peacekeeping mission in the former Yugoslavia, policing heroin trafficking through Turkey, and cooperating with enforcement of the "no-fly" zone in northern Iraq by allowing U.S. and British jets to use Incirlik, Turkey, as a base.

Armitage's memo said Turkey "provides irreplaceable assistance in countering the threat the Baghdad regime poses" and lauded the U.S. ally for sending troops to Afghanistan after the September 11, 2001, attacks.

"The primacy of Turkey's role as a front-line ally in the war on terrorism is expected to assume even greater prominence and urgency as the global war on terrorism continues," Armitage said.

Deputy State Department spokesman Adam Ereli told CNN Tuesday the waivers were given to Jordan and Turkey every year since 1998.

He called both countries "special cases" in which the money Saddam made through the smuggling did not allow him weapons.

"With Jordan and Turkey the circumstances were unique," Ereli said. "We approached them in a way that preserved key alliances and didn't help the regime of Saddam Hussein."

He added that Saddam's smuggling to Syria, which the United States tried to curtail, raised far more concerns because of the possibility of "dual use" goods reaching Iraq.

Larry

You can not take ownership of Your actions nor deeds when they go south. I call that immature. Why am I not surprized.

Sincerely
Lawrence Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:31 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e


Would you like to compare who has stood behind their vote between Reps and Dems?

You call that proof Crispee?? Laughable.

Larry

Larry,
I say open a investigation. That is utter bullshit. Where is the fucking press on this?

"Just 5 years ago? What year did we invade Iraq, genius?"

Bwahahahaha! Where among those statements is a demand to invade and occupy, Einstein?

Still don't know the difference between talk and invasion, do you?

I say open a investigation. That is utter bullshit. Where is the fucking press on this?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 07:45 PM | Reply

Why gee billyjoebob(Just a bullshit name I spewed) When it happened You republicans had all of the Government sewed up so You see the reason why we didn't have any investigations because the new breed of Republican party isnt one of Responsibility. No they are the viewed as the rubber stamp party. Why isnt the Media over this. Who owns the media?? Just a few conglomerates and we all know where their loyalty resides now don't We Crispee??

Larry

"Here is your chance to answer the question. Again."

Here's my answer. Again:
Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:37 PM

Danforth,

YOU posted Clinton thought Saddam was contained. I asked why he felt the need for a Iraq invasion in 1998 if he thought they were contained? Just going by what YOU wrote. If you can't back up YOUR post then the only conclusion is you are in error or what you posted was bullshit.

Here is your chance to answer the question. Again."

Here's my answer. Again:

One invaded and occupied, to the tune of thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of lives, and, eventually, trillions of dollars.

One didn't.

Do you know the difference between rhetoric and invasion?

For example, there has been a lot of jawing about North Korea over the last few years. Is that the same as invading?

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:37 PM |


Hey retard, Clinton set the ball up for Gore to spike. The only thing that happened on the way to the Net was Bush was there instead of Gore.

When it comes to foriegn policy there's no difference between parties, just politics. Something it appears that you partisan hack traitors never understand.

It's time to stfu, support your country in unity and show the islmofacisist's some REAL RESLOVE.

If your party wasn't calling for withdraw and playing politics for the last almost 5 years and showed some resolve to win these Islamofacist thugs would be disappearing a hell of a lot faster than they are today. But instead you've invested yourselves in the defeat of our country and placed innocent Americans in danger for purely political gain.

Disgusting.

You call that proof Crispee?? Laughable.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:44 PM

What proof would you like Larry? Are you just busting my chops? Since you have access to our Gov. regarding the Oil for Food scandal you should have access to the illegal sales of silkworm missiles to Iraq which violated the UN Cease fire agreement.

Just a few conglomerates and we all know where their loyalty resides now don't We Crispee??

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:48 PM |

The party who holds the Majority of both Houses?

There were NO Silkworm missles that violated the UN Resolutions. Nice try though Crispee I will give You that.

Larry

Just a few conglomerates and we all know where their loyalty resides now don't We Crispee??

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:48 PM |

The party who holds the Majority of both Houses?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

No try the Republicans thats who.

Larry

Still don't know the difference between talk and invasion, do you?

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 07:45 PM

Is that the latest talking point, Jack? I do know that the Dems certainly talked about what a bad guy Saddam was, there is no debate about that, but certainly didn't do anything about it.

Larry-

I have said it before and will say it again, s l o w l y so that you can understand it: The Bush Administration is completely responsible for the invasion of Iraq, the failure to anticipate and plan for the aftermath and for cleaning up the mess.

The point that you keep (deliberately) missing when these quotes are posted is that Bush was acting on the same intelligence that the Clinton Administration had, and instead of talking about it, did something. Right or wrong, that is where we find ourselves today. You, on the other hand, completely disavow any responsibility, as the citizen of the country that invaded Iraq, to want to do anything to clean up the mess that your country, right or wrong, created. I know that you didn't vote for him, but most of your neighbors did...are you going to sedede from the Union all by your lonesome?

"If (the Dems weren't) calling for withdraw and playing politics for the last almost 5 years and showed some resolve to win these Islamofacist thugs would be disappearing a hell of a lot faster than they are today.

What a steaming pile of bullshit. There's not a single way the neocon architects have wanted to prosecute the Iraq war where they've been thwarted by the Dems, or anyone else on this side of the pond. They've had all the money, all the time, and all the troops they chose. The fact it's a clusterfuck after 4+ years is all the doing of the Republicans. And the desperation with which those responsible for this fiasco are trying to distance themselves from it is like a driver trying to blame his ultimate location on the passenger riding in the trunk.

Waaaaaaa!!! Don't blame us! We were just the party in charge! Blame the Democrats!!!

The point that you keep (deliberately) missing when these quotes are posted is that Bush was acting on the same intelligence that the Clinton Administration had, and instead of talking about it, did something. Right or wrong, that is where we find ourselves today. You, on the other hand, completely disavow any responsibility, as the citizen of the country that invaded Iraq, to want to do anything to clean up the mess that your country, right or wrong, created. I know that you didn't vote for him, but most of your neighbors did...are you going to sedede from the Union all by your lonesome?

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

NO Sir funny that You say the same information when He was told Repetedly by the CIA and Others that Saddam Hussein did not have WMD. Dubya knew Saddam Hussein didn't have a thing but Yet invaded anyways(We all know the REAL reason was to secure the oil for His Oil industry buddies) Oh and How is it MY Responsibility for cleaning up someone elses shit. I am sorry but this Right or Wrong bullshit wiull not fly with Me either. I am not the one who invaded Iraq. That was Dubya. This notion about My Country right or wrong ios the same exact tactics they used in vietnam IT IS BULLSHIT ROC and You know it.

Larry

Incubus con Saddam Hussein did not have silkworms because none were found. Oh and please please don't say they are still hidden somewheres because I will laugh at Your face.

Larry

There were NO Silkworm missles that violated the UN Resolutions. Nice try though Crispee I will give You that.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 07:56 PM |


worldandi.misto.cz/_MAIL_/
pla.html

Since 1996, the People's Republic of China (PRC) has supplanted Japan as ... Beijing has helped Syria with its ballistic missile and sold Silkworms to Iraq.

Since 1996, the People's Republic of China (PRC) has supplanted Japan as ... Beijing has helped Syria with its ballistic missile and sold Silkworms to Iraq. ...
worldandi.misto.cz/_MAIL_/
pla.html

I guess you want the entire cease fire agreement posted also Larry?

"I do know that the Dems certainly talked about what a bad guy Saddam was, there is no debate about that, but certainly didn't do anything about it."

What an out-and-out lie. No-fly zones, containment, and massaging world opinion suddenly count as nothing.

"You, on the other hand, completely disavow any responsibility, as the citizen of the country that invaded Iraq, to want to do anything to clean up the mess that your country, right or wrong, created."

I was completely for the war in Afghanistan. I was completely against the war of choice in Iraq. How, again, is this my mess? I'll be paying for it, one way or another, the rest of my life. Isn't that enough, or do I have to embrace this insanity as well?

"Bush was acting on the same intelligence that the Clinton Administration had"

He invaded in 2003 with intelligence from over two (probably three) years prior? Oh, Gawd, he's even more of an idiot than I imagined.

SHOW ME THE MONEY CRISPEE SHOW ME THE MONEY. Saddam Hussein did not have silkworms but nice try crispee. I know You can not understand that.

Larry

They've had all the money, all the timeand all the troops they chose. The fact it's a clusterfuck after 4+ years is all the doing of the Republicans. And the desperation with which those responsible for this fiasco are trying to distance themselves from it is like a driver trying to blame his ultimate location on the passenger riding in the trunk.


Waaaaaaa!!! Don't blame us! We were just the party in charge! Blame the Democrats!!!



Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 08:00 PM |

You forgot to add this important little fact..And all the Dems aiding and abeting the enemy by calling for withdraw from an Illegal war that was voted on by the UNITED STATES CONGRESS.

Why would any Iraqi stand up when is all they read and hear and see in their news is the propaganda put forth by islamofacists that America is going to abandon them.

You truly are a fool. And your leaders are traitors to their nation.

" I asked why he felt the need for a Iraq invasion in 1998 if he thought they were contained? "

I must have missed something: when in 1998 did Clinton invade?

When in 1999?

When in 2000, as he was President all year?

WHAT?!? He didn't invade? He just had plans drawn up, as any prudent leader would? Telling.

possibly maybe coulda might by chance potentially could have some kind of weapon is not acceptable reason to invade a country.

one person had the authority.

he misused it.

NO EVIDENCE

documents were embarrasssing.

all the senators in the world dont make one decidererererer.

we would not be in iraq without bush's sole decision to invade iraq.

he pushed it and it became us policy.

fact.

Incubus con Saddam Hussein did not have silkworms because none were found. Oh and please please don't say they are still hidden somewheres because I will laugh at Your face.

Larry



yeah Larry the guy pleaded guilty because he was innocent.

I gotta get some food be back shortly I hope. Give them hell Danforth. May the rue the day they supported Dubya.

Larry

PS Me thinks they already do and are now lashing out.

WHAT?!? He didn't invade? He just had plans drawn up, as any prudent leader would? Telling.

Posted by Danforth at 2007-09-10 08:12 PM |


But whenever the Bush has contingency plans it's a crime....

Hypocrite, partisan, subversive fools.

within 3 days bush's press rep said that it was a fact that SH had wmd and it was reported to the UN that NO EVIDENCE existed.

that is enough to convict.

Incubus_Con sez:

"...Illegal war that was voted on by the UNITED STATES CONGRESS."

Zzzzzzt. WRONG! Congress never declared war.

"You truly are a fool"

Coming from a moron like you, who doesn't even know the difference between rhetoric and invasion, it's a badge of honor.

"But whenever the Bush has contingency plans it's a crime.... "

On the contrary. Bush had better have plans to invade Iran. But here are two more words with different meanings:

Planning and Invading.

AMERICANUNITY

Thought you might check back onto this thread -- off topic but -- left you a response to your post on yesterday's Nooner (on the Pinwheel helicopter deal)

Also, I finished that article about the stealing of millions of our tax dollars by Bush-approved contractors (with the blessing of this White House) and the depth of the corruption sickened and even actually surprised a cynic like me.

I knew about war profiteering and the lies told as reasons about going into Iraq but the deep level of the corruption and theft and the PROOF that the White House (Bush/Cheney) were up to their necks in it too made me want to throw up. Seriously. I think the part where the CPA had intentionally been set up as a conduit for them to steal the billions was unreal and Bush fighting in court to say the CPA was NOT a government agency therefore no court could try any corruption case? That part blew me away..

That article makes "Baghdad Year Zero" look like a child's fairy tale in comparison. And the part about the contractors using our soldiers to make trips back and forth across Iraq in empty trucks and subjecting them to attack for no reason except to hick up the billing coss for their own profit was unbelievable. Explains it now why Bush never wants this war to end. Why isn't he and Cheney in jail?

Will dicuss that article with you more when you are around. Just got finished with it. later

Larry-

You say the same information when He was told Repetedly by the CIA and Others that Saddam Hussein did not have WMD. Dubya knew Saddam Hussein didn't have a thing but Yet invaded anyways

So all the dems who are quoted above knew that Saddam didn't have WMD's or the capability to reconsititute those programs but said those things anyway? So they were lying as well, in 2002-2003? Thanks for clearing that up.

Danforth-

No-fly zones, containment, and massaging world opinion suddenly count as nothing.

and

I must have missed something: when in 1998 did Clinton invade?

When in 1999?

When in 2000, as he was President all year?

WHAT?!? He didn't invade?

Of course not, what with all that "massaging world opinion" going on. That has to count for something, right?

subversive fools.

What does that even mean?

And you paste a definition from Webster's online or where ever, I'll ask you again.

Dan and Larry,

How can you continue to post to those repo-empirialist who have been saying the same lie for the last 4 years. "If you don't agree with us you are an Islamist terrorist supporter."

Why not just ignore their posts it is by far greater in showing the positives toward the democratic side. Keep allowing them to push the same ole lying rhetoric must get boring.

ROC,

Saddam didn't attack anyone during Clinton's term. He didn't even attack us on 9/11. That has to count for something, right?

So all the dems who are quoted above knew that Saddam didn't have WMD's or the capability to reconsititute those programs but said those things anyway? So they were lying as well, in 2002-2003? Thanks for clearing that up.

Danforth-

No-fly zones, containment, and massaging world opinion suddenly count as nothing.

and

I must have missed something: when in 1998 did Clinton invade?

When in 1999?

When in 2000, as he was President all year?

WHAT?!? He didn't invade?

Of course not, what with all that "massaging world opinion" going on. That has to count for something, right?

Posted by Rightocenter at 2007-09-10 08:24 PM | Reply


I don't care if God and Jesus Himself said what Democrats vsaid ultimately it is what Dubya does and what He knew that is key. He knew there was NO WMD in Iraq He was told repeatedly. Yet You want to deflect upon the Democrats like some child blaming His Sister for breaking the good china. Dubya broke it He is responsible for it.

Larry

Moneywar I don't know I guess I am getting mighty sick of their lies their deflections and ultimately their deflecting all of that blood that continually pours from their hands that they are so desperate to remove from themselves that keeps Me posting to Them MAKING THEM REMEMBER WHAT THEIR SUPPORT AS WROUGHT.

Larry

Incubus' turn to post partial debunked quotes?

Yee haw.

Larry,

All that's needed is a post something like this.

"The wasted blood of American lives is on the Republican hands, they are willing to close their eyes to objectively evaluating their parties behavior."

Leave it at that, truth will hit em hard.

" Give them hell Danforth."

I just tell the truth about 'em and they think it's hell.





(h/t to hst)

SHOW ME THE MONEY CRISPEE SHOW ME THE MONEY. Saddam Hussein did not have silkworms but nice try crispee. I know You can not understand that.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 08:09 PM

I guess they didn't violate UN Resolution 1441 either? I don't know what proof you want. They found silkworm missiles in Iraq. That is a fact Larry. They know they were sold fom China.

You are becoming as insignifigant as a pimple on a gnats ass(credit Larry Mohr)when you post your dribble about all Repubs this and all Repubs that.

Gotta go, will reply to everything later.

CRISPEE WRONGO please do get more educated upon the subject matter at hand. If They did find Silkworms and other banned weapons do You not think Your dear Leader would be climbing the tallest object in AMerica and shouting it to and fro SEE WE FOUND THOSE BIG BAD SILKWORMS WE FOUND WMD. Use some God damned Common Sense for pete sake.

Larry

Oh and when You try using My quote about being as useful as an infected pimple on a Gnats ass back at Me at least have something to show for it besides Bullshit.

You are becoming as insignifigant as a pimple on a gnats ass

Getting lonely sitting on that pimple waiting for Larry?

Don't be lonely. Look behind you. Incubus is there, he's just fallen asleep.

He's been there so long.

bwhahahahahaha OMFG hahahahahahahaha Yav how funny. That was good.

Larry

Oh and I DO have to give Credit where Credit is due. The add of insignificant was rocking. Too bad it fell flat though.

Larry

Larry,

The curse of visualizing comments too literally.

It causes me to chuckle at the most inopportune times.

Hey yav no problems here I am FILLED with ummmmmmmmmmmm certain visuals LOL

Larry

CRISPEE WRONGO please do get more educated upon the subject matter at hand.

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 08:55 PM

Why don't you simply do a search yourself? I posted a couple of sites snd you chose to ignore them. Not much else I can do. Sometimes people need a whack or two on the head before their brain ciphers what they see.

As for your other little quip... You fucking blanket ALL Republicans in 90% of your posts. I don't need to waste time pasting your posts, anyone who reads your posts would agree. Next you are going to claim you are a moderate.

Larry,

The curse of visualizing comments too literally.

It causes me to chuckle at the most inopportune times.

Posted by YAV at 2007-09-10 09:04 PM

That is probably a roid you see. If you pull your head out of Larry's ass I am sure you will find the pimple you desire.

I have Crispee NOTHING was found please do try again. Oh and

As for your other little quip... You fucking blanket ALL Republicans in 90% of your posts. I don't need to waste time pasting your posts, anyone who reads your posts would agree. Next you are going to claim you are a moderate.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2007-09-10 09:05 PM | Reply

Ok Crispee that got a funny from Me.

Larry

back later

Larry

Ok Crispee that got a funny from Me.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2007-09-10 09:09 PM

Is that Yav tickeling you colon?

That is probably a roid you see. If you pull your head out of Larry's ass I am sure you will find the pimple you desire.

ewww.

I'm tickling Larry's colon from way, way far away.

You know what they say about me Crispee?

Most men walk up and put it in.

I put it in and walk up.

You know what they say about me Crispee?

Most men walk up and put it in.

I put it in and walk up.

Posted by YAV at 2007-09-10 09:23 PM

Please don't elaborate anymore or post what they say about you. I have a weak stomach.

Ha!

It was a cheap joke, Crispee. I figured Larry'd be cool with it given some of what he's posted. I hope that's true!

Note: I didn't respond with anything smart-assed.

Bush knew that and lied and bullshitted you into thinking iraq was a threat

it was a war of aggression

yuou are too stupid to understand that.

Posted by truthhurts at 2007






here on 9/11/07........this is still all the left has to offer....insults and bullshit....

I really dont have to say anything about all of the other people who saw the threat from sadaam and the bodies buried in mass graves with his two sons killing and torturing and the 25K to people who killed innocent people using innocent children......and the list goes on.

main thing here.........the stupid remark ALWAYS........a sign of desperation......liberals cant stand to have any success.......more american troops die, the better thier position.....what a shitty side to be on.......

I really dont have to say anything about all of the other people who saw the threat from sadaam and the bodies buried in mass graves with his two sons killing and torturing and the 25K to people who killed innocent people using innocent children......and the list goes on.



and there are an equal number of quotes saying how SH was not a threat, by colin and cheney and rice, you know the decidererer's children.

mass graves, sure
2 sons killing and torturing, yes
moula to suicide crazies, yes

no threat to the us

period

i understand that you cannot accept that fact. because then you will have to look in the mirror and realize you support a war of agression. I understand that you cannot see yourself as supporting such an immoral act. I understand that you need to justify this act, like it was moral or is effective. I get it.

that does not make your fantasy world reality.


Bush was authorized to confront the ONGOING threat posed by Iraq.

January 2003 NO EVIDENCE....

March 2003 REPORTED that documents used by US to justify war were EMBARRASSING forgeries.


Bush knew

Iraq was not an ONGOING THREAT

war was illegal and immoral

war i ONLY for self defense

"TRUTHHURTS" its sad your still part of the Human Race, you reak of Liberal socialism and your.. "Facts". just because you say.. its a Fact.. dont mean squat!

Iraq was a Threat!, Iraq was breaking UN sanctions and I look in the mirror and support the war, the president with no problem, .. why cause I know losers like you are brain washed with ABC, CBS and NBC, there was plenty of Evidence, just none that YOU know about or agree with, .. "war i ONLY for self defense".. thats got to be a new one on the idiot ranking list of sayings.....

wakeup, and the war was legal and NOT immoral, only in your liberal mind.

Even IF the invasion of Iraq was legal and moral...

It was still a stupid thing to do.

"OZARKAGGIE"

so YOU say "It was still a stupid thing to do" ..

I would put the intel of those who made the decision to invade over yours.. ANY DAY!

Ooo the washington post, im sure that paper and most if not all its writers are not bleeding Liberals.. nxt time pick a better paper to quote...

Are you talking about Dick Cheney who said invading Iraq would be a quagmire back in the 90's?

Face it, we didn't put enough troops in Afganistan, and waited almost a month to insert any troops into that country, allowed bin Laden to escape along with other high ranking Al Qaeda and Taliban, and then we pulled special forces to prepare for the invasion of Iraq. Which is now a quagmire.

But continue to have faith in your "leaders" KC. Maybe you should join the fray. Plenty of civilian jobs if you're too gutless to wear the uniform.

something worse than a crime: It was a blunder.


The French use the word "mistake" in it's original meaning--a miss stake, as in a bad bet.

When has Bush ever make a good bet?

(Rhetorical question, BTW.)

I have faith in our leaders and in the Men and Women who put there lives on the line each day. I served my time.. Maybe you should take one of those Fray Civilian jobs?

"I served my time.."

Felony charge? Or just a misdemeanor?

Hans

Well KC, I served my time as well. But this week I turn 58 and I'm not planning on going to a war that I don't believe we should have started. End of story.

"Skelton ordered the room be cleared of protestors.

Democrat from Missourah!!! Mind your manners or leave.

We Like Ike.

Ozarkaggie says, "We like Ike"

I graduated Neosho HS, '59 ... you?

Ozark says, "Even IF the invasion of Iraq was legal and moral...It was still a stupid thing to do."

Show me -- by explaining why it was a "stupid thing" to end genocide in Bosnia ... but not in Iraq ...

Should read, " ... end genocide in Iraq, but not Bosnia."

"I graduated Neosho HS, '59 ... you?"

How many Missourah pukes we got here? I'm from Joplin, but left at a fairly early age. Still have lots of family there.

MSSC, Joplin, too.

"MSSC, Joplin, too."

Lived out in Duquesne, not too far from 20th and Range Line when it was all farm country back in the 40's. The old place is still there but the orchards are gone and there's a new barn. Lots more houses and all too. I go visit uncles, cousins and all every so often. Most of them live out in Newton Co in Joplin, just across the county line from Jasper Co.

Lafayette High in West St Louis County 1967.

As for the "genocide" RE: Bosnia vrs Iraq, I seem to remember that we were a part of a coalition--um, NATO?--when we went into Bosnia.

But invading Iraq, and then disbanding not only the army but the entire bureaucracy including the technocrats who made things work was a serious error.

There was simply no compelling reason to invade Iraq, except to affect regime change. That was the real reason and the motive IMO was Saddam was negotiating contracts with the French and Russians, and the Chinese were already in place having built a refinery, for the development rights to the oil fields.

You might have an argument that we went in for our economic security, but I doubt that we will ever recoup our investment in dollars, much less in lives lost or damaged. Almost 4000 killed and over 27,000 wounded.

What were the casualty stats for Bosnia?

And how many of the same Republicans who support the war in Iraq were giving Clinton hell for having our troops in Bosnia?

Personally I can't wait for the bombing of Iran. Then you'll understand the word quagmire: a difficult, precarious, or entrapping position.

Ozark says, "As for the "genocide" RE: Bosnia vrs Iraq, I seem to remember that we were a part of a coalition--um, NATO?--when we went into Bosnia."

Does that mean that your allegiance is to NATO? You won't accept that a Coalition of nations were partners ... it has to be NATO? How about the UN? Are you a loyal citizen of the UN?

Or ... can you even answer one question without misdirecting? Huh? Are you so completely a slavish, yellow-dog-democratic that you can't accept the ending of genocide as sufficient to depose such a tyrant? Only when a Democratic commander in chief uses it as a reason to go to war?

"But invading Iraq, and then disbanding not only the army but the entire bureaucracy including the technocrats who made things work was a serious error."

You don't fool me! I've been here since this war began and have seen the effort to defeat any success, and from the very beginning! When the statue of Saddam was pulled down ... this site and its Democratic dupes and stooges mocked it and called it a fake! Everything to you and your ilk concerning Iraq is a FAKE!

That's what you collectivist, defeatist are saying about our soldiers, our president, and fellow Americans wanting to end the use of terrorism to gain political advantage -- HUMAN SACRIFICE!

... and what are you doing? Subverting the hope for success against beheading murderers, those who sacrifice themselves, their children and anyone else they can to advance their evil religion!

You may have graduated from a Missouri school, but you are no different than the subversive traitors attempting to lose a war for ALL Americans, in order to win a victory for your party of treason and hate and war profiteering!!!

What a bunch of hateful and hate-filled scum ...

"I've been here since this war began..."

Oops:

tadowe

Seniority: 12

Private E-mail
No Home Page

Joined 2004/06/20
Visited 2007/09/11

My allegiance tadowe is to the Constitution, and this country.

I don't think we should have been involved in any of the foreign wars or intrigues in the past century, but once on the slippery slope it seems there's no turning back.

you are no different than the subversive traitors...

When you'd like to say that to my face let me know--I'll provide you with my address.

As for the war profiteers, they seem to be on both sides of the aisle.

Hello Hans!


Regarding "Oops"....


Name registration started in June of '06, however the site has been around quite a bit longer. I first started coming to this site in August of '04 and I do remember Tadowe as being present at that time. Given that, his comment is probably truthful.

I first started coming to this site in August of '04

Just another ill-fated event in the dog days of summer.

"Name registration started in June of '06"

Actually:

rcade

Seniority: 1

Private E-mail
Visit Home Page

Joined 2003/04/04

-----

Gal_Tuesday

Seniority: 2

Private E-mail
No Home Page

Joined 2003/07/01

-----

northguy3

Seniority: 5

Contact User
No Home Page

Joined 2004/04/21

-----

Alexandrite

Seniority: 8

Private E-mail
No Home Page

Joined 2004/05/11

-----

JeffnDenmark

Seniority: 11

Contact User
No Home Page

Joined 2004/06/12

-----

tadowe

Seniority: 12

Private E-mail
No Home Page

Joined 2004/06/20

Hans,


In the early days, this site had a function known as 'typekey', where certain members could 'register' their name so as not to be spoofed. However, most of us, myself included, didn't utilize that function but were present nevertheless. In those days I always signed in as JeffJ. with a period following my name. My seniority level is a mere 52. Most individuals didn't actually register their names until they were forced to do so.


In regards to Tad...

Yes, I am aware that the war started a little over a year before I started coming to this site. However, my recollection from the early days is that he was already well-established here given the fact that many other regulars appeared to 'know' him. Essentially, from that I extrapolated that his comment about being here since the war's beginning was probably truthful.

"Essentially, from that I extrapolated that his comment about being here since the war's beginning was probably truthful."

JeffJ, I started posted here in June 2005, and remember when you didn't have to log in to post (there was that additional "Click on IP address..." link).

If tadley wasn't prone to hyperbole and purposeful over-the-top comments, along with outright fabrications to support his "position" (see my Oops post to him earlier today when he tried to tie Ruby Ridge to Bill Clinton)...

... well, you might have a point. As it is, I am more than happy to throw a "gotcha" his way whenever I see him goof badly like that. And let's face it, Rogers, being the first registered user, didn't join until after the war began (barely, but still after). That hardly puts tadley boy here "since the war began."

Now, no doubt I'll be accused of being "obsessed" with him... LOL!

Hans

The point being, Tad, myself, Danni, Gal, et al were all here posting in the spring of 2003.

There's no fucking "oops"--and very little else to talk about regarding this tangential quibble.

Essentially, from that I extrapolated...

when you actually extemporized.

spring of 2003

I must of come here right after that. I remember being convinced that Tad was actually Mao off his meds.

Had to look this one up....


extemporize
------------------------------
------------------------------
--------------------

verb
manage in a makeshift way: do with whatever is at hand
perform without preparation: "he extemporized a speech at the wedding"



Nice word, Oz.

I remember everybody was "Tad".

The left wing mind needs something secret, powerful and conspiratorial to rail against in order to validate itself.

The notion of "Tad" as he posted on this website and abused the Fellow Travelers was simply an incarnation of the "military/industrial complex" and "multinationals" boogeymen that exist in the bigger picture.

Somebody mean to the liberal sheep showed up?

Must be "Tad".

One must wonder, would there be a Drudge Retort without the Iraq War????

Hans-

I started posting here in the Summer of 03, and fully recall not only Tad's vitriol, but how often he got spoofed.

One must wonder, would there be a Drudge Retort without the Iraq War????

Posted by danni at 2007-09-11 04:15 PM

Nature abhors a vacuum...we would have found something else to disagree about.

:^)

(September 11, 2007) -- WASHINGTON -- Rep. Jim Walsh, in a dramatic break with the White House, returned Monday from a trip to Iraq saying it's time to bring troops home and stop funding the war.

The moderate Republican from Onondaga has struggled for months with conflicting emotions about the war.

"Before I went, I was not prepared to say it's time to start bringing our troops home," Walsh said. "I am prepared to say that now. It's time."

Walsh's announcement came as Gen. David Petraeus, the U.S. commander in Iraq, told House members that the troop "surge" has made progress.

But Walsh said he saw little evidence that much has changed in Iraq since he last visited four years ago. He said he hopes to meet with President Bush to convey his change of heart.

The hearing fell on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

yeah the hearings just happened to FALL on 9/11?

Someone planned it that way.

hmmmm could it be another underhanded way of continuing to try and relate and connect 9/11 to Iraq when we all know good and well there was NO connection.

And so we start this hearing with a moment of silence for the victims of 9/11... what about the victims of Iraq which this hearing was supposed to be about.

When will the lies end?

The war has to be continued. The minute it stops accountability begins. Crimes against humanity (500k Iraqis dead for no good reason).

Glad to read the Pentagon has a 'Plan B' for Iraq. Version 1.9 of the same thing needs a rehaul.


Condi Rice was seen in public for the first time in months back doing her spin thing. Al Qaeda 15 times in 2 minutes Al Anbar...same

Condi, Al Anbar is 5% of the population - a homogenous Sunni area with no intersectarian violence. Sadly, the same cannot be said about the others, and there's the rub.

Al Qaeda/iraq franchise is estimated to have 1600 in Iraq compared to tens of thousands of Shia and Sunni militia. North Africa has several times as many Al Qaeda with rising violence there. Indonesia has thousands. Pakistan and Afghanistan...who can say, but more than in 2001. A resurgent Taliban.

Baghdead violence down to last years levels. Why? Ethnic cleansing. Petraeus is making some headway, but Baghdad is only one of many provinces with 75% Shia now since ethnic cleansing reduced the former 65% Sunni poplulation to 25%.

Glad to finally have someone like Petraeus who understands political reconciliation is THE issue. He's assembled a great team of bright and unbiased minds. Let's hope we see violence decrease exponentially and a functional Iraqi government start to take shape. It is THE solution in Iraq. I wish him all the best.