The Catholic Church has supported right-wing faux Christians for years, due to them purportedly being anti-abortion and anti-gay. I hold the Church partially responsible for the environmental damage that Republicans have allowed corporations to inflict upon the earth.

So Benedict now realizes perhaps there are other issues that are important too ? Too little, too late. I am not returning to the Catholic Church.

too late for what?

Isn't "saving" people the goal of all Christians?

"too late for what?"

For when Jesus comes back and does whatever it is Jesus is going to do this time around. Something to do with locusts and horsemen for a 1,000 years or something like that.

Benedict is trying to make himself relevant again.

It's hard werk.

Gore upstaged by the Pope
Probably less tons of litter at the
Pope's venue and more profit.

"A decisive 'yes' is needed in decisions to safeguard creation as well as a strong commitment to reverse tendencies that risk leading to irreversible situations of degradation," the 80-year old Pope said in his homily.

Intentionally wearing green vestments, he spoke to a vast crowd of mostly young people sprawled over a massive hillside near the Adriatic city of Loreto on the day Italy's Catholic Church marks it annual Save Creation Day.

...Ixnay on the Rossescay!!!

Hide those things.

Don't remind Him!

LOL

Save the planet, reduce the human population.

As a culture we are in our adolescence.

We are obsessed with sex,
we think everyone is interested in what we have to say,
we think we know it all and are wiser than any previous generation,
we hide our insecurity behind an attitude

and we desperately,
desperately
need to clean our rooms.

Cheers

"As a culture we are in our adolescence."

Agreed.

Adolescents believe all manner of wacky shit.

Benny, it IS too late. But the only truly moral course of action is to pretend that this is not yet the case. herm

Rapture soon, who gives a damn about the planet?

...What a liberal, commie thing to say.

How dare the Pope offend the Bush administration in this way.

Save the planet, reduce the human population

And therein lies the heart of the irony here.

On the one hand Pope "EggZ" Benny XVI is say...

"Save the planet before it's too late"

and on the other he sez...

"Contraception is a sin"

Make up yer frickin' mind sez Spud!

Be Well.

Yah, if you want to help... suggest your followers use a condom there Pope.

Either God can and won't or
wants to and can't
So why worship him?
Isn't saving the planet all in Gods hands, Pope? Why do we need you?

good one dave

The child abuse coverup expert has spoken. This time he has taken an ethically defensible position.

since when does a huge rock with a molten iron and nickel core need saving? The planet will be here for billions of years until the sun (our star) goes super nova in 5 billion years. Or until the Andromeda galaxy collides with our milky way in 3 billion years. Planet might swing out to nothingness.

The question is not how will we save the planet. The question should be how do we become less stupid? If you honestly believe the planet needs saving than no offense you're an idiot. It's the people that need saving. You cannot destroy a planet. Only major forces beyond our control can do that. Like Gamma-ray bursts that will essentially kill the planet under direct fire.

This is the human arrogance to actually believe you can kill a planet. As if humans had the power to do so. Humans can kill themselves out of pure stupidity but the planet will still be here.

"And therein lies the heart of the irony here."

Someone needs a refresher on the word 'irony'.

"Save the planet before it's too late"

followed by...

"Contraception is a sin"

And that has anything to do with making up one's mind?

Perhaps too many dumb fucks like yourself are making it through the 'ol birth canal. One of the lads getting aborted may just have all the answers.

Now that's irony.

or, for the challenged...

"incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result"

Enjoy!

Happy ir right. There would be no environmental issues if the human population were small and properous. Instead it grows out of control while the Pope condemns birth control.

"I hold the Church partially responsible for the environmental damage that Republicans have allowed corporations to inflict upon the earth."

LOL. "Anyone who doesn't think like me is destroying the Earth. People like me have nothing to do with it." As if Democrats and atheists don't use all the same resources.

Amazing.

"Save the planet before it's too late"

and on the other he sez...

"Contraception is a sin"


Do you really think the pope simply gets to decide on a whim what is a sin or not?

The church provides its followers teaching on the nature of morals and ethics according to its long theological and philosophical tradition and foundations. As our society and culture grows, the understanding of the nature of sin develops and the certain actions which once may have been deemed sinful become understood in a new light. That is how it works. One does not simply change what is sinful because right now it is not convenient or useful for it not to be a sin.

The Church understands morality as one reads a compass and a map. The compass is constant; maps, however, need to be revised.

It is not or should not be a weather vane that blows according to whatever direction the cultural winds are blowing.

Now the evils of overpopulation and HIV are real. No question about it. A foundational belief of the Church, and one that I do not think will ever change, is that one cannot combat evil with another evil or sin.

The Church's current teaching still hold that contraception is sin and that extramarital sex is still a sin. It asks that its adherents be strong and attempt to abide by these moral principles and others. (Doing so would help eliminate many of the problems.) When many of its members fail, as is expected because of human nature, it becomes a conduit for divine forgiveness and asks them to try again.

If one does not agree with this teaching, then do not become or remain a Catholic.

Finally, the sorry state of the world in regard to the environment is not due simply to the sheer number of people vying for the basic resources to maintain life. It is that the vast resources of the earth are disproportionately consumed by a smaller number of people wishing little more than to possess and consume and possess and consume as much as they can. This kind of materialism for the sake of materialism Christianity and the Church condemns.

Cheers

"Do you really think the pope simply gets to decide on a whim what is a sin or not?"

No, which is why both me and the Church no longer consider me a practicing Catholic.

But for the believers, deciding what is a sin and what is not is definitley in his job description.

Finally, the sorry state of the world in regard to the environment is not due simply to the sheer number of people vying for the basic resources to maintain life.

Yes, it is precisely that reason that the world environment is getting bad for humans, and only that reason.

:-)

But for the believers, deciding what is a sin and what is not is definitley in his job description.

Deciding what is a sin and what is not is God's job. Coming to a greater understanding and knowledge of that decision and then teaching it is the Church's job.


Cheers

"Deciding what is a sin and what is not is God's job."

LOL----does he get a weekly report on the changes the church decides to make? Does he get approval? How did he feel about that burning at the stake part or the throwing in prison for saying the earth was not the center of the universe part?

:-)

Deciding what is a sin and what is not is God's job.


And how many centuries passed between the slaying of Abel and the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" (Murder)?


Seems to me that God is a Slacker.

And how many centuries passed between the slaying of Abel and the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" (Murder)?


Seems to me that God is a Slacker.


Posted by OzarkAggie at 2007-09-03 01:15 PM |


God's a slacker? Was Cain given any consequences?

Because people didn't pay attention hardly renders God a SLACKER.

Do yourself a favor and start over again.

"Was Cain given any consequences?"

Sure. He had to marry his sister.

And there in a nutshell is our heritage, courtesy of the Bible: we're all descendants of an incestuous murderer.

God's a slacker? Was Cain given any consequences?

He was well rewarded. The mark protected him. He had a wife and family, and founded a city. Likely a respected man.

Deciding what is a sin and what is not is God's job. Coming to a greater understanding and knowledge of that decision and then teaching it is the Church's job.

Now Grendel I enjoy your posts because they are usually well thought out and common sensed.

This is by far not normal for your posting.

In fact, I am quite surprised you even posted such nonsense.

You act as if God directly communicates with the church. And this gives me a real chuckle, thanks for the laugh.

Deciding what is a sin and what is not is God's job. Coming to a greater understanding and knowledge of that decision and then teaching it is the Church's job.

Now Grendel I enjoy your posts because they are usually well thought out and common sensed.

This is by far not normal for your posting.

In fact, I am quite surprised you even posted such nonsense.

I am so sorry to have disappointed. I should not have assumed that a general non Catholic audience would understand the process of which I describe.

Catholics believe that our relationship with God is like any real relationship. It is not static but an ever growing and developing one in which we come to understand the divine on deeper and greater levels through time--often great amounts of time.

God makes his will known in a variety of ways. Most importantly, it is not simply or only a handed down message. (The Pope does not receive weekly faxes. I bet he wished he did! That would be easy.)

We all know that we learn and understand something better when we have a hand in figuring it out ourselves. God knows this well.

(cont.)

(cont.)

Understanding God's will is a marriage of faith and reason--faith in revelation and the teachings of scripture and reason in understanding and applying what we learn from that revelation to new experiences. In this way we discover or have greater understanding of God's will rather than have him simply always give it to us. It thus occurs when we are spiritually and intellectually ready for it.

Consider the analogy of geometric proofs. It has been many years since I have taken a course in Euclidean geometry, but I remember that given a few basic premises one can use reason to discover new truths. If I use the given that parallels lines never converge to find out that two particular angles in a shape are congruent did I "decide" that they were congruent or did I discover something that was true all along.

While no analogy is perfect, the above expresses how the Church, with the Pope as its spiritual leader, comes to understand what we know about God and how we should act in the world. It bases its teachings on what we accept as the givens--the teachings of scripture or revelation; it then takes into account centuries of learning and teachings on the subjectsand then it prays that God will guide us to use our reason and knowledge that we are given to discover a divine truth.

Seeing what that divine truth is is akin to a scientist examining a distant planet or star with a telescope. Astronomers hope to create ever finer, greater or more precise lenses to enable greater perception and understanding of the object that is revealed to us first by the naked eye. The theological and philosophical traditions of the last 3000 years are the lenses that the Church is constantly refining.

Nonsense? Like all reasoned arguments, it is nonsense if you do not accept the initial premise. That is certainly your prerogative.

Cheers

(Must log off for now. Will probably return later tonight. I have enjoyed the conversation.)

Grendel,

With your apparent intellectual background I find it hard to believe you think the church has anymore understanding of God than you do.

I do think the church may have a grasp of better understanding of the scriptures, partly because they help write them and part because they study them more.

It is not God who declares the sin, it is man and mans interpretation of the scripture.

Each individual knows ones own sin, each individual knows ones true moral/ethical intention of behavior. Some are glaring, some are sublime but in the end, the individual knows the sin.

The church has its own sin of repentence to deal with, not known to many, but certainly known by the reasoning of keeping their following. The Pope knows more of sin because he is a product of committing it doubly, one of self and one of the Church.

We're even depleting the topsoil. Egads! The despoilation of the planet is due to unsustainable population size.

The West is not fecund, and even with the Catholic Church's opposition to birth control, the population in the West is not maintaining its numbers.

It's our misbegotten transfer of information and techniques, and provision of aid, that enables the African and Asian population to increase. Some 1.2 billion Islamics, who are antagonistic to us and attempting to harm us, are 1.2 billion too many, and their numbers are burgeoning as we have given them information that has resulted in extending their lifespans.

If we are to survive, we need to employ techniques to reduce the numbers of all people other than those in the First World. China with its one child policy has taken a needed initiative. Hopefully this policy together with the tendency towards male children, would if enforced in two generations reduce its population from another 1.2 billion to 300 million. At one time, "Chinese hordes" were comprised of some 300 million people.

Some way or another, be it an Armageddon type conflict without the edenic outcome, or the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse riding roughshod over humanity, the human population will be reduced to a number consistent with survival of the race. It happens with animal populations that grow beyond sustainable size, and we are in that mode now. Solar, geothermal, tidal, and wind might provide sustainable energy resources. but we are depleting our reserves of soil and potable water. The aquifers are being depleted. It bodes ill. Catastrophe may provide salvation.

It's in our interest to make sure that population reduction is at the expense of others, not us. Who would you choose to survive, your own family or some foreigners? Unite with those whose might can install you in the survivor class. As an American, you are in a preferred starting position. That doesn't mean that we will prevail. We shall undoubtedly be hampered, and possibly fatally compromised, by our squeamishness.

The pope is a superstitious old man. Let him look to the next world and abandon this one. Let him mutter imprecations in an attempt to solve problems.

The Church does help. Maybe celibacy and/or homosexuality will provide some succor in our attempts to survive the population bomb. Malthus just had his chronology wrong.

In the meantime, the pope can continuen to pray to unga bunga and the gods of the volcano for help.

We still invent our gods rather than vice versa; we invent them to fit the needs of the day. Be fruitful and multiply, take dominion over the earth? This may have been a good idea at the time, but it's not today.

The god we invented, according to the sixteenth Benny, still wants us to reproduce willy-nilly until we're standing atop each other, and if we screw with any purpose other than overpopulating the planet, we commit what this god defines as sin.

I've pontificated (sorry!) on this before, but when we invented this god the known universe stretched from Turkey to Egypt. Today's universe contains billions of galaxies with more billions of stars and still more billions of planets.

I think it's time to invent ourselves a new deity to redefine sin. herm

We still invent our gods rather than vice versa; we invent them to fit the needs of the day. Be fruitful and multiply, take dominion over the earth? This may have been a good idea at the time, but it's not today.

The god we invented, according to the sixteenth Benny, still wants us to reproduce willy-nilly until we're standing atop each other, and if we screw with any purpose other than overpopulating the planet, we commit what this god defines as sin.

I've pontificated (sorry!) on this before, but when we invented this god the known universe stretched from Turkey to Egypt. Today's universe contains billions of galaxies with more billions of stars and still more billions of planets.

I think it's time to invent ourselves a new deity to redefine sin. herm

We still invent our gods rather than vice versa; we invent them to fit the needs of the day. Be fruitful and multiply, take dominion over the earth? This may have been a good idea at the time, but it's not today.

The god we invented, according to the sixteenth Benny, still wants us to reproduce willy-nilly until we're standing atop each other, and if we screw with any purpose other than overpopulating the planet, we commit what this god defines as sin.

I've pontificated (sorry!) on this before, but when we invented this god the known universe stretched from Turkey to Egypt. Today's universe contains billions of galaxies with more billions of stars and still more billions of planets.

I think it's time to invent ourselves a new deity to redefine sin. herm

Oops. An error occurred. It must have been god. herm

Grendel;

One cannot argue with logic and reason when one suspends disbelief in favor of superstitious regurgitated mythologies from travelling nomads 2000 years ago.

You can babble your god-speak all you want, but you will always be...a moron,

Danforth; you are a genius;

"...And there in a nutshell is our heritage, courtesy of the Bible: we're all descendants of an incestuous murderer...Posted by Danforth"

Oh, and it's Clinton's fault...