Well, GZ???? You said there were no drumbeats for war. Of course I had to get this news from European sources but what else is new.

...Israel, which has warned it will not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, has made its own preparations for airstrikes and is said to be ready to attack if the Americans back down....,

Israel is challenging the U.S. trying to make the U.S. appear cowardly and/or weak if we "back down."

I say let the U.S. "back down" and let's have Israel shed their own boys' blood for a change. The U.S. has no dog in this fight. Iranian nukes could only hit Israel and possibly Europe. Israel hasn't even shed a drop of blood in Iraq to help us. How much blood from our young men does Israel want? Is the U.S. to wipe every country in the ME off the map so Isreal feels "secure." Let Israel do their own fighting for a change.

CHris -- The Pentagon has had military plans drawn up against Iran since the revolution there in 1979 -- probably sooner. They have plans drawn up against all our "enemies" and rogue states. It'd be foolish to think otherwise.



Israel hasn't even shed a drop of blood in Iraq to help us.

Come on -- I don't have to explain to you why Israel isn't aiding us in a fight in the Middle east, do I?

We probably have a plan to invade Canada, too. This is standard procedure, to be ready for any contingency.

Of course Lefty crackpots leap on this as though it were dramatic and new. They are the same bunch of hypocrites who would rant and rave if there were no plan in place. With a headline like this:

"Investigation Reveals Bush Not Prepared for Iran Challenge"

We probably have a plan to invade Canada, too.
-Posted by vernon

Indeed, probably should have. At the least it always good to have a plan. Now Canada should be listed at close to the very bottom.

Now a plan post invasion plan for Iraq beyond minimal troops and all the parades and flowers I guess that was asking a little too much.


"Investigation Reveals Bush Not Prepared for Iran Challenge"

More likely "Bush Attacks Iran screwing pooch yet again"

The Blitz plan for Iraq was four days, so the Iran plan must be just as well thought out.

Israel hasn't even shed a drop of blood in Iraq to help us.

Come on -- I don't have to explain to you why Israel isn't aiding us in a fight in the Middle east, do I?

Posted by goatman at 2007-09-02 05:12 PM |

It's always the same story -- if Israel aids us in any of the fights in the ME then revenge would be taken out on Israel by the surrounding Arab/Muslims.

Do you REALLY think that if we hit 1200 targets in Iran that Israel is NOT going to be included in any payback? Do you think the Arabs/Muslims (I still can't figure what to call them) in that neck of the woods are so naive they wouldn't think that Israel was playing a big part behind the scenes? And they are.

Plus, EVEN IF Israel screams from the rooftops for the U.S not to ever intervene in the M.E. and adamantly makes it known to the entire world Israel is dead set against the U.S. nuking Iran so you honestly believe that the Arabs would believe them? Of course they wouldn't.

Every single time Israel has sat on its hands after sending us in to battle in the ME it's ALWAYS because "The U.S. doesn't want to cause any friction because the surrounding Arab nations would be furious if they thought Israel had played any part in it." I USE TO believe that line. They used it in the Gulf War too as they reason for Israel not sending in any troops.

Well, I've got news for you, Goatman.
Whether Israel sits on the sidelines and does nothing to help in the fighting trying to appear a disinterested party or whether Israel, for a change, sends in its own military troops to help our boys -- those ME Arabs/Muslims are going to blame Israel no matter what.
So why not make Israel help out.

Alireza Jafarzadeh, a spokesman for the National Council of Resistance of Iran

Sort of the CIA's answer to the Iraqi National Congress?
You know, the guys that gave us all that great Iraqi WMD info.

The question is not if, but when, Cowboy George goes for it. I'm guessing after the 2008 elections, then he can leave yet another military defeat for somebody else to clean up.

Goat

CHris -- The Pentagon has had military plans drawn up against Iran since the revolution there in 1979 -- probably sooner. They have plans drawn up against all our "enemies" and rogue states. It'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Yes, I'm sure we have plans drawn and ready on how to invade Liechenstein, if necessary. But even you have to admit these specific plans have been "fine tuned" lately to coordinate directly with Bush/Cheney's current Neoncon-nuke agenda they have for Iran. These latest plans don't read like they were some pre-1990 blueprints just dragged out of some old desk drawer over at the Pentagon.

NG3

The question is not if, but when, Cowboy George goes for it. I'm guessing after the 2008 elections...

We should start a betting pool on the date.

I believe Ray said sometime before the end of December 2007?

And Bani has those "bin Ladin" terror trades floating out there until September 21 and a war in Iran (and the resulting terrorist payback on the U.S.) would coordinate nicely with that theory.

Any bets?

The Pentagon has had military plans drawn up against Iran since the revolution there in 1979 -- probably sooner. They have plans drawn up against all our "enemies" and rogue states. It'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Until recently, there weren't three carrier fleets in the Persian Gulf, and air bases surrounding Iran armed and ready for the signal to start.

Yes we can't say for sure if will happen. But if it does, for any reason, we won't have to argue about who started it. That includes an attack on this soil.

Is this within the realm of possibility?

The U.S. must have oil and now China is giving us huge compeition with their needs for oil not only for their emerging markets but also keeping China's ever enlarging military going.

There is only so much oil available and he who controls the oil controls the world.

I see China as the real threat to our country down the road, not some teenage suicide bomber covering his face with his shimagh and his testerones running in overdrive anticipating some mythical virgins after he explodes his backpack.

Question: Is is possible we are planning to get control over the entire ME and its oil supplies so we can do it before China does and while we're at it we are going to take out all of Israel's perceived enemies since we're in the neighborhood anyway?

If Bush had presented the real danger that lies with a very militant Communist China and said that's why we're going after the available oil -- so China doesn't get it first -- I could have accepted that explanation much more than his lies about Iraq.

But then Bush will NEVER bad mouth China or tell the truth about China since Bush's corporate boys are making billions in outsourcing over there. If FOR ONCE Bush had told the truth he might have gotten more respect from Americans and more understanding as to why we need to be in these oil wars.

Let me guess: It will only cost us 1.4 billion in total tax dollars and the Iranian oil money will pay for the rest, right?

I can't even order flowers and chocolates online, the Iranians seem to be buying them all up to shower us with praise.

Whether Israel sits on the sidelines and does nothing to help in the fighting trying to appear a disinterested party or whether Israel, for a change, sends in its own military troops to help our boys -- those ME Arabs/Muslims are going to blame Israel no matter what.

I don't quite buy that, Chris. During Iraq ver. 1.0 Israel wasn't attacked unless you count a handful of scuds that errantly landed over the border. May as well used V2s. But if Israel had been a party to ver 1.0, the response would've been much graver I think.

Goat

In the first Gulf War in 1991, Bush 41 would never have received permission from members of the coalition he formed of the neighboring Arab/Muslim countries (i.e. Saudi air fields for our jets) if they knew Israel would be part of an attack team on a Muslim country (Iraq).

As you are aware, Bush 43's "coalition" was only Britain and a very few non-Muslim countries that contributed only token numbers of troops. No reason for not helping us out with this current war -- especially since our military is strapped and troop numbers are short.

There is only so much oil available and he who controls the oil controls the world.

Currently that would be the Russians, and they are not accepting dollars for their oil.

The three-day blitz of Iran presumably matches the 24 hours it took us to pacify Iraq. herm

Currently that would be the Russians, and they are not accepting dollars for their oil.

Posted by Ray at 2007-09-02 07:49 PM | Reply

Bullshit. Russia is run by the Mob, and dollars are the only real money in the world. I was just in Japan this week, and even there prices are posted in Yen ..... and U.S. dollars.

There is only so much oil available and he who controls the oil controls the world.

Sounds like "the spice" with the guild.

There is only so much oil available. . .

Sounds like "the spice" with the guild.

No, the spice was renewable.

Part 2

I asked her about the attack, how limited and so forth.


"I don't think it's limited at all. We are shipping in and assigning every damn Tomahawk we have in inventory. I think this is going to be massive and sudden, like thousands of targets. I believe that no American will know when it happens until after it happens. And the consequences...whatever the consequences...they will have to be lived with. I am sure if my father knew I was telling someone in a news organization that we were about to launch a supposedly secret attack that it would be treason. But something inside me tells me to tell it anyway."


I asked her why she was suddenly so cynical.


"I have become cynical only recently. I also don't believe anyone will be able to stop this. Bush has become something of an Emperor. He will give the command, and cruise missiles will fly and aircraft will fly and people will die, and yet few of us here are really able to cobble together a great explanation of why this is a good idea. Of course many of us can give you the 4H Club lecture on democracy in the Mid East. But if you asked any of the flight officers whether they have a clear idea of what the goal of this strike is, your answer would sound like something out of a think tank policy paper. But it's not like Kosovo or when we relieved the tsunami victims. There everyone could tell you in a sentence what we were here doing."


"That's what's missing. A real sense of purpose. What's missing is the answer to what the hell are we doing out here threatening this country with all this power? Last night in the galley, an ensign asked what right do we have to tell a sovereign nation that they can't build a nuke. I mean the table got EF Hutton quiet. Not so much because the man was asking a question that was off culture. But that he was asking a good question. In fact, the discussion actually followed afterwards topside where someone in our group had to smoke a cigarette. The discussion was intelligent but also in lowered voices. It's like we aren't allowed to ask the questions that we always ask before combat. It's almost as if the average seaman or soldier is doing all the policy work."


She had to hang up. She left by telling me that she believes the attack is a done deal. "It's only a matter of time before their orders come and they will be sent to station and told to go to Red Alert. She said they were already practicing traps, FARP and FAST." (Trapping is the act of catching the tension wires when landing on the carrier, FARP is Fleet Air Combat Maneuvering Readiness Program- practice dogfighting- and FAST is Fleet Air Superiority Training).

WHEN does anyone think we will attack Iran?

That billion $ option bet expiring in less than 4 weeks gets creepy doesn't it...

That billion $ option bet expiring in less than 4 weeks gets creepy doesn't it...

Posted by Bani at 2007-09-03 03:35 AM | Reply | Fl

What about the point that Goatman made about the name of someone buying over a certain amount of stocks must be made public. How would they get around that or can a number of different people buy just up to -- but under -- the amount of stock purchase that needs to be reported?

This isn't stock...it's options & SEC has chosen not to disclose info on the buyer of the options according to the article:>)

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz

Why would the president share military strategies information with an LSO?

I was in the Navy, too. 1975-1981. I heard stories from higher ranking people than LSOs how we were going to hit Iran during the hostage crisis, Libya during the Straits of Hormuz crisis, and even the USSR during other high tension times. These people "knew" it because of operations that were going on.

But if the Daily KOS was around then and they could tell their story to them, well, I guess I'd have to be true. *dripping with sarcasm*


Sorry, but an LSO reporting to the Daily KOS does not have the skinny on the USA's military strategies.

Why would the president share military strategies information with an LSO?

That was a good one. ff for you.

Along the same lines of Navy rumor mill:

The opposite happened when Carter sent the failed rescue attempt to Iran. We didn't know about it on the ship until after it happened. And we were in the Red Sea then!

So it's funny how everyone "knows" of military operations, but when they actually happens it is a surprise!

That is of course unless you listened to a Phillipino hooker. They had the most uncanny ability to know the movement of every ship in the 7th fleet. No lie.

Bani says, "... bullies like USA & Israel..."

What a joke! You must be one of those who supports the practice of human sacrifice to advance Allah and Mohammed on the bloody altars of Islam ...

Neolithic, goat-herding mentalities ... those are the arrogant, murdering "bullies" of this modern age!

"Neolithic, goat-herding mentalities"

Too much credit. Try paleolithic.

CHRIS

WHEN does anyone think we will attack Iran?

(Oh Gee . . . another Shock N' Awe)

Bush recently said that he still has faith in the diplomatic mission. If you've ever lived in Bushland, TX that would translate to "as soon as I get my finger out of my nose."

I believe an attack on Iran is imminent.

What about the point that Goatman made about the name of someone buying over a certain amount of stocks must be made public.

Options aren't securites, Bani -- they are the option to buy securities. I believe those have to be declared as well. I know that when corporate officers -- especially CEOs -- are granted large amounts of options that they have to be reported. I'd like to know what the source of the article is that says the SEC is keeping it secret. I don't think they can for a billion dollars worth of stock when a CEO is forced to report a mere million worth of stock.

Just what the world needs, another oil producing country on the brink of collapse. We have our hands full using only 130,000 troops playing whack a mole military manuevers. If we go into Iran (which is Shia) does he think the Iraqis (which is Shia) are going to stand by and do nothing? What an idiot!

Neolithic, goat-herding mentalities ... those are the arrogant, murdering "bullies" of this modern age!

Posted by tadowe at 2007-09-03 05:19 AM

Yeah sure Tad, as long as you don't count the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq. You're as pathological as the Bush/Cheney gang.

I wonder if the three day blitz is anything like the six weeks that Rummy predicted Iraq would take?

Then they must be Rummy Daze.

You know, like dog years.

I wonder if the three day blitz is anything like the six weeks that Rummy predicted Iraq would take?

Incredibly, these people can't think beyond three days. That's down from six weeks.

"these people can't think beyond three days. That's down from six weeks."

The Alzheimer's is getting worse.

Zat it's NOT Alzheimers it's Dubya being a Manchild. How many Children do You know that have n attention spam that is more than a minute?? It's the same way with Dubya. He doesn't have the mental faculties necessary to hold a thought for more than a minute.

Larry

They called it a "tail hook" The link below shows the exact plane my Dad used to land using a tail hook. In fact the letters on the tail of that Corsair photo were the ones his particular group -- the "Death Rattlers" used on their Corsairs (WS -- stood for "Willy/Sugar" You didn't get much chance to grab it or you overshot the flight deck.

F4U-4 Corsair - USMC- VMF323 (1952 Korean War)

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-09-03 03:25 AM | Reply |

Just a correction in case anyone thought that was a photo of the EXACT real plane itself. It was not.
The photo just shows the exact kind of plane (even down to the same tail letters).

Actually, that particular photo of that plane -- to me, anyway -- almost looks like a model plane superimposed on a photo of a flight deck (too clean looking). Got it off google images but it shows that exact Corsair type. Just wanted to clarify that it was not a photo of the actual plane itself flown by my Dad.

I wonder if this war plan includes "Flowers and Chocolate" like the Iraqi war plan did?

wonder if this war plan includes "Flowers and Chocolate" like the Iraqi war plan did?

Just chocolate-flavored nukes.