Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, August 30, 2007

The Iraqi government has failed to meet the vast majority of political and military goals laid out by lawmakers to assess President Bush's Iraq war strategy, congressional auditors have determined.

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

Corky

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

It's all roses and candy in Iraq. There are neighborhoods that have gone entire weeks without a bombing. And those neighborhoods that have been bombed aren't in Baghdad, so they don't count. Deaths are up everywhere, except Bagdhad where there's just where they were last year, when thw surgerific offensive began.
We're arming anti-American and anti-Iraqi government terrorists with the full faith that when they get tired of killing alquedas, they won't go back to killing us or attacking the government we spent 4000 lives installing. Cause they love us now. They want to convert to infidelism and give us their oil.
The Hoperer-in-Chief told us, so it must be true.

BowaLT101

It is important that we recognize that the Iraqi Government is made up of people and people have feelings. We do not want to hurt their feelings.

So instead of grading them, we are going to use the following system:

YOU ARE DOING GREAT!
YOU DID VERY WELL
YOU DID OK
YOU KINDA TRIED
YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TRY HARDER.

It is not fair that we impose such hard and potentially harmful "grades". We want the Iraqi Government to grow up happy and not have a complex.

"It is not fair that we impose such hard and potentially harmful "grades". We want the Iraqi Government to grow up happy and not have a complex."

Can we ban their version of "tag"?

These 'bench marks' were implemented as a stalling tactic to dampen war criticism. They never were expected to be reached. Just another pretense used to focus attention away from the disaster that this reality in Iraq. They allowed W to press another 'look to the future" cause the actual situation is indefensable.
Think I'm wrong?
Watch and see how these bench mark failiars will have absolutly no impact on the Bush 'plan'.

Ig our congress had any, how many would they meet?

See the progress we're making!
We got 5 benchmarks met, just give me some more time.

George Bush

C- just like Georgies College grades.

Dubya and his remaining crime family are already "crying foul"
- the "standards are unfair and too tough"

5 years in IRAQ and expecting modest progress is "Unfair"..?

FOLKS - Learn something this time!

REPUBLICANS LOVE PROFITS
REPUBLICANS HATE AMERICANS
REPUBLICANS LOVE WAR
because it makes PROFIT for the Wealthiest while killing off the Poorest!


Dubya is executing his own form of Genocide against the World and Americans and will be stubborn to his LAST DAY of Office and last breath to claiming that He is not WRONG!??

DITTO-Shaivos Please LEARN - BUSH and LIMPY only love your Money and hate YOU and all Americans!!

GOD SAVE AMERICA - CLINTON / CLINTON 2008


Any idea which 5 benchmarks were actually hit?

1 - Saddam did NOT come back to life
2 - Iraqi Government Officials NOT engaging in man-butt sex in public bathrooms
3 - Oil is still profitable
4 - Dick Cheney was issued an Iraq Hunting License
5 - There is still plenty of shit for Hillary to clean up.

5 - There is still plenty of shit for Hillary to clean up.

Posted by Manypaths

She should be real good at it after living with Bill for 30 some years.

She should be real good at it after living with Bill for 30 some years.

Well one thing is for sure, she will do a lot better than doubleyou at it. I can't imagine a more mismanaged war. But to doubleyou's credit, wars without cause are hard werk.

5 - There is still plenty of shit for Hillary to clean up.

Posted by Manypaths

She should be real good at it after living with Bill for 30 some years.

If she takes any military advise from Bubba, we WILL be able to celebrate victory in Iraq and afghanistan and Osama will be on trial within a few weeks. I'm thinking Bill's great victories in Kosovo and Bosnia will be good guides for her.

That is the difference between fighting a war to win versus waging a war for profit North.

Let's see 13 out of 18 not accomplish, hell for this administration to get 3 out of 18 correct is well above thier average!!!!! Come on guys give these guys a break, they got 3 right!!!!!!! Come on "Faux Noise", lets bring on some of the Democrats scandels to seperate the News from Iraq!!!!!!

The Actual 5 IRAQ "War" Benchmarks that were Hit:

1 - Halliburton made almost a $Trillion in contracts.

Many re-contracts for rebuilding and blowing up the same structures and feeding shit-water to US Troops

2 - $10s of $BILLIONS in "War Funds" were "lost" to private swiss accounts for Crime family

3 - Oil prices and Profits continue to increase

despite lock on Oil source, GOP Lies that Iraqi Oil would fund the War while holding out hands to US Taxpayers every few months for 5 years for MORE $100s of $BILLIONS to squander

4 -
Dick Cheney's 1994 video defending number 1 Dumbya's NON-invasion of IRAQ
and the reasons against it (all valid) were shrugged off and forgotten by ditto-shavios

5 - Ditto brains scared into submission about non-threatening Iraqis
while allowing the crime family agents to grow, increase recruiting while US military recruiting descreases to dangerous levels, provide free guns and training grounds for "enemy"

IF those were the Benchmarks - obvious to most that they are
then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

"It is not fair that we impose such hard and potentially harmful "grades". We want the Iraqi Government to grow up happy and not have a complex."

Can we ban their version of "tag"?

Posted by Danforth



their version of tag involves bullets to the head

5 - There is still plenty of shit for Hillary to clean up.

Posted by Manypaths

She should be real good at it after living with Bill for 30 some years.

Posted by Sniper at



another tighty righty expresses his contempt for marriage

Hell They Got 3 !!!

"Doin' A Heck Of A Job Georgie !!"

Where Is LokiDerflaCyBowo ?

-Sarge

When you fail your classes, aren't you supposed to skip summer vacation and go to summer school?

American soldiers die while F student Iraqi lawmakers lounge by the pool.

"While we've seen progress in some areas, it would not surprise me that the GAO would make this assessment given the difficult congressionally mandated measurement they had to follow," said Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the National Security Council.


in other words, it is congress's fault for those 13 measurables.

tehre are things we know and things we know we dont know and then there are things we dont know we dont know,you know?

Having the U.S. blame the iraqi gov't for the obvious failures is akin to a ventriloquist accusing his puppet for getting booed off stage.


"While we've seen progress in some areas, it would not surprise me that the GAO would make this assessment given the difficult congressionally mandated measurement they had to follow," said Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the National Security Council.



This cracks me up. It's like a school teacher saying "more of my kids would have passed if it weren't for the high grade needed to pass."

This administration is an absolute joke, and is becoming a laughingstock.

the whole idea that a war can be managed is the problem. How can you expect the government to manage anything correctly?

Bush or Kerry, or anyone else would still be in a mess in Iraq.....

AMERICAN STRONG WILL and PEOPLE have defended off another Attack despite the American-Hating 7 year

Republican/NeoCON SURGE against AMERICANS:

1 - Beat Americans down by sending most Jobs overseas

while forcing them to train replacements and PAY for their job losses thru Tax incentives to companies for taking away their jobs

2 - Dangerously low recruitment and record-low Officer retention for US Military, lowest morale in US History!

3 - Sending All US "National Guards" overseas instead of keeping here to "Guard the Nation" and protect Americans

4 - Cutting or refusing Port and Border Funding and security funding

almost gave away port control to country with 80% of the 9/11 killers

5 - Running up National Debt into the $TRILLIONS
borrowing from China, sending US generations into debt and jeopardy - all after a RECORD SURPLUS by Clinton

6 - Cutting or refusing Police, Security, Education, Healthcare and any program designed to HELP Americans!

7 - Boldly selling the US Govt to lobbyists, creating the most Secretive, Corrupt, non-productive Administration in US History!


CONGRATS DITTO-BRAINS
: Mission Accomplished!!!


GOD SAVE AMERICA - CLINTON / CLINTON 2008


Nah-they're not blaming the puppet-dumbass is STILL sitting(shitting?) in the "Deciderer's" chair....they're blaming the Concessions clerks-the Janitors-hell-even the Security Guard is getting the blame.....

Can't wait for weekend news shows from Faux Noise, to see how they spin this (Only 3 of 18 programs going well in Iraq"!!!! Based on Chris Wallace's average in getting it right, This will again be a fair and balanced report, HA!! HA!! HA!!
On this pass Sunday Wallace saw fit to question Bill Moyers on his journalistic approach!!!!! Is this lightweight fucking kidding?????? For anyone on Faux Noise to question anyones journalistic credentials is laughable...Especially chris Wallace what a fuckin lapdog!!!!!!!

Sniper: Look up the Republicans Contract with America and see how amny they achieved in 15 years.

Makes maliki look like George Washington.

""Bush or Kerry, or anyone else would still be in a mess in Iraq....."

perhaps in Iraq, but perhaps American soldiers wouldn't still be there getting killed.

We soon will have to watch again, I fear, as the Dems do nothing to reign in these lunatics.

Matt Drudge Does Not have A Sentence On This, ZERO !

He Has Been Taunting This We Are Making Progress In Iraq Crap Non-Stop !!!

I Know He Feels Silly, Just Because You Say It Over And Over Again Does Not make It So !

This Adminstration Lives In A Fantasy Land Or Just Straight Up And Down Liar, I Would Say The Latter.

Like I Said, If This War Was So Important Why Are The Young Republicans Double Filed In Front Signing Up For it ?

-Sarge

the whole idea that a war can be managed is the problem. How can you expect the government to manage anything correctly?

I dunno, maybe we should ask the Japs or Germans or even dig up Saddam and Milosevic and ask if a non-brain-damaged Commander-in-Chief can manage a war effectively...

Sorry, my bad, I was using Verm's calculator.

Should be 16% a big Whopping F!

We soon will have to watch again, I fear, as the Dems do nothing to reign in these lunatics.

Posted by danni at 2007-08-30 12:17 PM |


Come on Danni. Why would you reign in what you've voted to unleash and promoted for years. Yall might want to give all the democrat senators that voted to go in a pass, but I don't and won't.

It was the right thing to do then and it's the right thing to do now, unless of course you want delude yourself to believing things in the middle east were going to get better for us and the rest of the world with time and without intervention of any kind. That just isn't the case.

If not then, when? If not us who?

It's way past time for pacifist dreamers who refuse to face the realities of the world we live in to shut their mouths.

Either you're with us or you're against us. There is no such thing as neutral in this reality we occupy. Hoping the lion eats you last isn't a prosperous future for your progeny.

The world is a much larger place than just your back yard.

Either you're with us or you're against us. There is no such thing as neutral in this reality we occupy.

Typical black&white thinking from a small minded republican. You do such a good job at that.

WHO the fuck is Bush kidding?

There is only one benchmark!

There has only ever been one benchmark!

The fall of Saddam - Inconsequential

Stemming the prolifereation of Al Quada under US authority - Inconsequential.

The speading of Democracy - Inconsequential


Listen...

Listen to Bush, Cheney, Hillary and any other NWO puppet.

The only measure of victory, the only benchmark that means anything. The one item that is cause for our politicans to call for Ouster of the democratically elected Prime Minister at this early stage is...


The hydrocarbon law which takes the oil fields which were under Iraq state control and puts them in the hands of the mega oil corporations so that we can keep printing dollar bills and trading them for the black gold that provides the only tangible resource to bolster our economy.

We are there to steal there oil to bolster our economy, thats all we've ever been there for, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

Without the Hydrocarbon law passing Bush Loses everything.

Anything else is inconsequential

Matt Drudge Does Not have A Sentence On This, ZERO !

He Has Been Taunting This We Are Making Progress In Iraq Crap Non-Stop !!!

I Know He Feels Silly, Just Because You Say It Over And Over Again Does Not make It So !

This Adminstration Lives In A Fantasy Land Or Just Straight Up And Down Liar, I Would Say The Latter.

Like I Said, If This War Was So Important Why Are The Young Republicans Double Filed In Front Signing Up For it ?

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge at 2007-08-30 12:30 PM |


It's amazing, no, it's sad that you were allowed to even aspire to the rank you apparently feel lends credence to your rants on foreign policy.

Your lack of grasp in understanding the meanings of some of the more basic words in the English language is profoundly evident.

progress noun 1. a movement toward a goal or to a further or higher stage:


3. advancement in general.

4. growth or development; continuous improvement: He shows progress in his muscular coordination.

5. the development of an individual or society in a direction considered more beneficial than and superior to the previous level.


Always happy to help. When you become happy to learn(and put foolish pride in your pocket) perhaps you'll even make Master Sage. Doubtful anytime soon though, given your present state of venom.

I'm praying for you though and also those on whom you force your prescence.

Typical black&white thinking from a small minded republican. You do such a good job at that.

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 01:31 PM |


Sorry pal, I voted for a Dem for school board, Road commissioner, and even state senator in recent elections. I interpret the facts given to me and listen to the position of the person and vote accordingly by their words not the letter that follows their name.

That's why I don't get hung up on politics regarding why we're where we are in the present.

You might want to give democrat senators a pass on their votes but I don't and won't.

Ya guppie.

Whats the matter incubus?

Sand in the axle grease you use for lube?

There is only ONE benchmark that Bush Co. cares about and that's the Iraq government signing over the Production Sharing Agreements ("PSA") for their oil with the U.S. big oil companies. Once those are locked into place we will leave all of Iraq to self-destruct into a ethnic/religious war and keep our military within the confines of the 6 permanent military bases already built to insure the safety of the oil contractors/oil fields. Nothing else matters.

That's all it was ever about anyway, right?

Those of us with evolved minds see things broader than your simple black and white examples.

I know that you do not understand. I am ok with that. Please continue pigeon brain with your either this or that mindset.

It is amusing to watch your feeble mind at play Incy.

That's all it was ever about anyway, right?

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-08-30 02:14 PM

Oil is a strategic commodity. I notice you're here making use of it today, why so?

Incubus_Con,

May I be very blunt ? FUCK YOU !!
You and your Pussy Minions are Cowards, you rant and rave to support a totally "Stupid and Idiotic" war which has "Nothing" to do with "Securing America" all it does is Consume Money, Bodies, and Lives. When was the last time you were in Combat ? When was the last time you put "Your Life" on the line for America ?
Do you even know the number of Al-Queada are in Iraq ?


Please Reply

-Sarge

Incubus_Con,
Which One Are You ?

Republican College Students for Iraq War

www.youtube.com

Please Feel Free To Reply

-Sarge

Looks like a struck a nerve, eh Sarge? BTW I think you and BB are one in the same.

Hey pal, I don't need to pull rank or even use politiicans names when it comes to debating principles. You want to allow Islamic Radicals to grow stronger and I don't.

You don't know anything about me, where I've been, where I've served etc. etc. etc. and I'm not compelled to oblige you or anyone else on this simplistic site. I don't desire recognition, you, on the other hand seem to crave it.

Now fuck off. You're an embarassment.

Our government is run by insane people. You can't invade a country, shove a government down its throat and then expect the population to enthusiastically support that government in meeting benchmarks of your design. The idea that putting more troops in Iraq would somehow change this is further proof of insanity.

Oil is a strategic commodity. I notice you're here making use of it today, why so?

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-30 02:25 PM | Reply |


I never said I was against the use of oil. I was against the attacking of a country that did nothing to us in order to steal their oil. Capishe?

What you are saying is that your philosophy is "I need, therefore I am justified in taking it -- matter who it belongs to."

I'm not compelled to oblige you or anyone else on this simplistic site.

For how simple this site, you have not managed to say one single thing complex enough to warrant such a statement. In fact, the site seems far more difficult for you because it does require a fair amount of comprehension and thought to write an intellectual post. Something I have yet to see from you.

Debating Principles? You wouldn't know what that means because of the cowtowing to the reporighties organizations.

We would be far better off having you just remove yourself from this blog because of the idiocy you continue to throw here. Nothing of value.

forgot to add "no" just before "...matter who it belongs to"

Oil is a strategic commodity. I notice you're here making use of it today, why so?

We Were Getting More Of It While Saddam Was Running The Place, And The Price Was Lower !!

Iraq Energy Chronology: 1980-November 2005

www.eia.doe.gov

Well I Wonder Who Benefited From The Rise In Oil Prices Since The War ?

Maybe Some Administration Oil Men ?

Could It Have Been Planned In The VP's Closed Door And Secret Energy Meeting ?

Document Says Oil Chiefs Met With Cheney Task Force

By Dana Milbank and Justin Blum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, November 16, 2005; A01



A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress.

The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.

In a joint hearing last week of the Senate Energy and Commerce committees, the chief executives of Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp. and ConocoPhillips said their firms did not participate in the 2001 task force. The president of Shell Oil said his company did not participate "to my knowledge," and the chief of BP America Inc. said he did not know.

www.washingtonpost.com

Those are The Facts !

-Sarge


Our government is run by insane people. You can't invade a country, shove a government down its throat and then expect the population to enthusiastically support that government in meeting benchmarks of your design. The idea that putting more troops in Iraq would somehow change this is further proof of insanity.

Posted by sully at 2007-08-30 02:35 PM | Reply |


The longer Bush keeps this war going, the longer he can continue to rob our U.S. Treasury blind. There is a HUGE movement of money out of this country into private accounts -- a la to the Carlyle Group and other Bush beneficiaries all justified by Bush's neverending 'war on terror" and Bush's war in Iraq..

The world is a much larger place than just your back yard.

We wouldn't allow this in our backyard, it is against the law.

I find it strange that you think because this is across the world that our basic principles of laws don't matter.

You see simple people understand that laws at home should be applied to those abroad when WE are dealing with em. Seems your mind isn't intellectually simple enough to grasp such a concept.

Maybe you should find the retardation Drudge Retort site!

What you are saying is that your philosophy is "I need, therefore I am justified in taking it -- matter who it belongs to."

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-08-30 02:40 PM |


What are you saying? That a coutnry provides your country with the technology and the tools to better your society and you owe nothing in return?

It's apparent you have little respect for contracts.

I know that you do not understand. I am ok with that. Please continue pigeon brain with your either this or that mindset.

It is amusing to watch your feeble mind at play Incy.

Posted by Manypaths


just out of curiousity, do you think ANYONE understands the global situation better than you many? is it even possible in manypaths world?

it seems you would rather dismiss any mindset contrary to yours, over listening and debating...

just an observation.

We would be far better off having you just remove yourself from this blog because of the idiocy you continue to throw here. Nothing of value.

Posted by moneywar

is it nothing of value because you dont' agree with it? i don't think thats a good way to look at things.... call me crazy.

The longer Bush keeps this war going, the longer he can continue to rob our U.S. Treasury blind. There is a HUGE movement of money out of this country into private accounts -- a la to the Carlyle Group and other Bush beneficiaries all justified by Bush's neverending 'war on terror" and Bush's war in Iraq..

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-08-30 02:44 PM


Amazing how you folks can put the blinders on. This will be going well after the 2008 election regarless of party flavor.

"You want to allow Islamic Radicals to grow stronger and I don't."

Incubus_Con,

You Are Wrong Silly Little Man, I've Fought The Terrorist, What Have You Done ?

I've Sworn An Oath To Defend This Country, I've Been In Harms Way In Doing So !!!

So Why Have You Not Joined The Military ? How Old Are You ?

If You Say You Don't Want Them To Grow Stronger What Are You Doing About It ?

Oh I See You Spend Time Here Slandering Combat Vets With Your "Up Armored Keyboard" !

What A Pussy You Are How, Why Don't You Grow A Pair And Go Right Down To The Recruiter ?

Do You Love This Country, Will You Defend It ?

You Will Not, So Carry On Pussy !

Oh, Please Don't Forget To Take You Maximum Cramp Relief...

-Sarge

We would be far better off having you just remove yourself from this blog because of the idiocy you continue to throw here. Nothing of value.

Posted by moneywar at 2007-08-30 02:41 PM | Reply


Or he could simply change names and deny doing so like you did?

What are you saying? That a coutnry provides your country with the technology and the tools to better your society and you owe nothing in return?

It's apparent you have little respect for contracts.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-30 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag


Another intellectual leap which no simplistic individual can begin to grasp.

There are about 4 subjects involved in this confusing statement and none of which you know.

I find it strange that you think because this is across the world that our basic principles of laws don't matter.

You see simple people understand that laws at home should be applied to those abroad when WE are dealing with em. Seems your mind isn't intellectually simple enough to grasp such a concept.

Maybe you should find the retardation Drudge Retort site!

Posted by moneywar

you can't take laws pertaining to a stable, sustainable western democracy and apply them to a third world, single item export driven middle eastern chaotic civil war. sorry. that was his point when he said the world is bigger than our back yard.

"Seems your mind isn't intellectually simple enough to grasp such a concept."
-are you saying he needs to have a more simple intellect in order to understand your mentality?

"Maybe you should find the retardation Drudge Retort site!"
-yup, pretty simple minded alright.

Or he could simply change names and deny doing so like you did?

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2007-08-30 02:54 PM |


Now that's funny.

Sarge = BB.... that's funny too.

ooops, almost forgot to add.

CASE CLOSED>

Another intellectual leap which no simplistic individual can begin to grasp.

There are about 4 subjects involved in this confusing statement and none of which you know.

Posted by moneywar

was that statement really confusing for u?

Welcome to the discussion Yoda. Let me bring you up to speed.

Incy posted:

Either you're with us or you're against us. There is no such thing as neutral in this reality we occupy.

I mentioned how narrow a mindset this is. I may not know the global situation better than everyone else, but I do know that such a narrow mindset, as displayed by Incy is dangerous and wrong. He simply lacks the ability to think beyond black and white. Not knocking him at all as there are a lot of simple-minded people in this world and he just happens to be one of them.

Radical Islamists have a very similar narrow mindset.

Or he could simply change names and deny doing so like you did?

Oh, the hyena has entered the fray, don't seem to see any dead animals around though. Oops! Incus is your lonesome sidekick.

What are you saying? That a coutnry provides your country with the technology and the tools to better your society and you owe nothing in return?

It's apparent you have little respect for contracts.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-30 02:50 PM | Reply |

Maybe I Miss Fucking Something Here Don't You Need "Two Willing Parties" And "Full Disclosure" To Solidify A Contract ?

Money,

Please help a Brother out, did Incubus get one of those "GWB MBAs" ?

-Sarge

And now we have another hyena joining the mix.

Yodaro,

We can have anything we want and it is funny how you think we have some requirement that our laws can't be used by us, for us, in dealing with other nations.

The only one who appears to have a limited intellectual understanding is you.

If you don't run, they can't chase you!

Incubus_Con,

When are you going to "Join The Fight" ?

Do you have the Balls ?

Some of my Guys are going over to OIF for the 4th Time while you are here being the Sorry Fucking Pussy that you are.

What Say You Puscubus_Con ?

-Sarge

Radical Islamists have a very similar narrow mindset.

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 03:02 PM |


The difference between my narrow minded mindset and yours is that if I see someone being raped or blugeoned I don't stand around trying to reason whether it's justified or not I'll just try to help them.

Again, you, just like sarge... think it's okay to stand down and allow Radical Islamics to grow stronger. We don't have to fight it today, we've always got tomorrow and it's got to be done perfectly.

Tomorrow tomorrow there's always tomorrow it's only a day a way.

Never do today what you can put off til tomorrow. Right, left?


Incubus_Con,

When are you going to "Join The Fight" ?

Do you have the Balls ?

Some of my Guys are going over to OIF for the 4th Time while you are here being the Sorry Fucking Pussy that you are.

What Say You Puscubus_Con ?

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge at 2007-08-30 03:10 PM |


As I posted earlier, your grasp of the more basic words in the english language is incredibly dull, that much is obvious.

You don't read none to good.

Let me try this again. FUCK OFF, you're an embarrassment.

"You want to allow Islamic Radicals to grow stronger and I don't."

No Inky,

YOU think that continual war and occupation in the ME isn't radicalising the region.

Yer wrong.

Bush's policies have only made Bin Laden's case stronger.

Iraq will never return to being a secular country again after this.

The only hope here is that the new Iraq will be so war weary by the time the US leaves that they will be more inclined to form some sort of stable entity that has automony and isn't radical.

The best way to radicalise a country is to destroy the infrastructure and create a climate of fear, chaos and death.

Check and check.

You see continual war as the solution and not part of the problem.

That's yer problem.

Something must be made of this dog's breakfast in Iraq but the corrupt crony capitalist contractors aint getting the job done and the civil war/ insurgency continues to heat up.

New leaderhip, a constructive plan and accountability must come into play before any real progress can be made.

Spud's not holding his breath.

Be Well.

PS: Have you heard the tapes where Bin Laden brags about having bankrupted the Soviets in Afghanistan and how he's prepared to do it again to the US in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Have ya?

Let me try this again. FUCK OFF, you're an embarrassment.

Um. {tap tap tap} HELLO????

You've got it backwards on who should be embarrassed.

many, the catchphrase in itself is very simple of course. this war is not simple. the reason this war is not simple (4th generation warfare), is because its on the individual level. we are fighting an ideology, not like we fought an ideology during the cold war, because at least that ideology was backed by the soviet union. once they fell/failed, it was obvious to the world that their ideology fell/failed.

this radical islamic ideology is not backed by a state (openly), and therefore our perfected state vs state army is rendered almost inable to have any effectiveness. its an individual ideology that we must hunt down on the individual level.

NOW, these individuals must live somewhere, they must have some kind of 'safe haven' if you will....

over the past 4 decades, the US military has been involved in a very high number of deployments to various places. from peacekeeping, to small skirmishes, to simple aid relief distribution, to large scale assasination missions. now if you map out the countries that we have sent our military to (the grand majority begging for our presence), you will see a common correlation between those countries and world trade.

the countries that make up 90% of world trade, have not needed US military assistance over these decades. the countries that don't engage in world trade etc, make up all the countries that we just so happen to have to go in and keep the peace. they are not involved in world trade mostly because of their lack of security, which hinders any possible foreign direct investment.

NOW, we have this individual ideological enemy, it thrives in these countries..... in the instability of these countries. part of that instability is due to the ruling governments not adhering to the suggestions and requests of world governing bodies (g8, un, etc).

the statement, ur either with us or against us, is directed to those individual states' governments. u either wake up and deal with/listen to the rest of the world, and let us help you and bring you into the 21st century.... or we are going to do something about it. yes it seems simple, but thats how it needs to be presented to these guys. NOW, iraq was supposed to be our example country, 1. example that we mean business, we will march in and try to instil a democracy.
2. that it would be a sustainable, functioning democracy and set an example for the entire region.

so far, we have seen some progress on the first count, and not nearly enough on the second.

Hey spud, can you go to japan, germany, democratic korea today and feel reasonaly secure?

with us or against us: let us help bring u into the 21st century and do not allow a safe haven for islamic radicals. you either LET that shit go on in your country, or you DO something about it. on that ONE level, it is that simple. overall, of course it is VERY complicated. but as far as governments go, we need to keep it simple.

any Qs?

I fight the religious radicals that are in my own backyard. They are called Christians over here.

If I was in the Middle East, I would worry about the religious wackos over there, but since I am not, I have to keep my eyes on our own homegrown cults.

That's really all that they are when you distill it down.

See, YOU are the one who has chosen to live in fear. Don't throw your imaginary snakes on me.

the statement, ur either with us or against us, is directed to those individual states' governments. u either wake up and deal with/listen to the rest of the world, and let us help you and bring you into the 21st century.... or we are going to do something about it. yes it seems simple, but thats how it needs to be presented to these guys. NOW, iraq was supposed to be our example country, 1. example that we mean business, we will march in and try to instil a democracy.
2. that it would be a sustainable, functioning democracy and set an example for the entire region.

so far, we have seen some progress on the first count, and not nearly enough on the second.

Posted by Yodar013 at 2007-08-30 03:20 PM |


Well put Yodar. It's falling on deaf ears for the most part though. If they continue to be deaf though their children won't and the death toll will be much, much larger.

We can have anything we want and it is funny how you think we have some requirement that our laws can't be used by us, for us, in dealing with other nations.

The only one who appears to have a limited intellectual understanding is you.

If you don't run, they can't chase you!

Posted by moneywar


way to debate the logic and not run to stupid personal attacks. first your sentence doesn't make much sense. please try to elaborate and present your reasoning in a more clear mannor.

jumping to insult my intellect simply demonstrates your inability to do anything else.

money, do you really think the same laws in a stable, thriving western democracy can be applied to a chaotic, war torn, middle eastern nation? while that state is in its current chaotic condition?

curfews for one. now please, stick to the subject, and don't go off on insulting tangents... if you can.

Puscubus_Con,

"You want to allow Islamic Radicals to grow stronger and I don't."

Well Here Is Your Chance Or Are You The "Puscubus_Con" I Understand That They Suffer From "Lack Of Balls Syndrome"......


Become A Soldier

www.army.mil

The Few The Proud The Marines

www.marines.com

America's Air Force

www.airforce.com


-Sarge

See, YOU are the one who has chosen to live in fear. Don't throw your imaginary snakes on me.

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 03:25 PM |


You're a pretty assumptive fella/gal. Ya wanna be careful of that trait it's been known to bite.

spud, something is going to have to be done about this problem. ignoring it and trying to sweet talk the rest of the world doesn't cut it. of course in the short run, our actions will net a greater number of US-haters (if you will), but that is to be expected. its the long run that we are fighting for.

I fight the religious radicals that are in my own backyard. They are called Christians over here.

If I was in the Middle East, I would worry about the religious wackos over there, but since I am not, I have to keep my eyes on our own homegrown cults.

That's really all that they are when you distill it down.

See, YOU are the one who has chosen to live in fear. Don't throw your imaginary snakes on me.

Posted by Manypaths

do you think 911 was an inside job?

did you read anything that i've explained to you thus far?

its the long run that we are fighting for.

Posted by Yodar013 at 2007-08-30 03:31 PM

its the long run that(some of us) we are fighting for.

Well put Yodar. It's falling on deaf ears for the most part though. If they continue to be deaf though their children won't and the death toll will be much, much larger.

Posted by Incubus_Con

incubus, do they think nuclear weapons will get harder and harder to obtain?

how else could you explain this pacifist logic?

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you.

repeat it after me, it will make you feel a lot better.

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you.

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you.

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you.

Now, am I wrong, or do you really thing that your life is in danger because of terrorism?

Terrorism! If you are already afraid, then Terrorism has already won. Are you a LOSER?

Why are you so scared?

did they run out of middle school insults?

anyone of you care to pick apart my 3:20 post?

maybe we can have an intellectual debate?

Um. {tap tap tap} HELLO????

You've got it backwards on who should be embarrassed.

Posted by YAV at 2007-08-30 03:19 PM | Reply


A lesser poster would have made a Larry Craig joke. Thank goodness I'm above all of that...

Yodar, I don't know how to explain pacifist logic.

many, i'm not afraid. i'm not oblivous either. i watched many people die due to terrorism... MANY.

now can you please use specifics, debate ideologies, and tactics. thanks

101 u are too much! lol

Puscubus_Con,

"You want to allow Islamic Radicals to grow stronger and I don't."

Read Punk :

WAR IN IRAQ FUELS ISLAMIC RADICALISM, REPORT SAYS:


(09-24) 04:00 PDT Washington -- A stark assessment of terrorism trends by U.S. intelligence agencies has found that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington who were involved in preparing the assessment or have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by U.S. intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and it represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States," it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, "Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement," cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of radical Islamic ideology.

The report "says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse," said one U.S. intelligence official.


www.sfgate.com


Now You Silly Ass Punk Little Boy, Do You Understand What We have Been Telling You !!

Stop Listening to Sean And Rush Explaining The Fucking World For You, And Become "INFORMED" !!!

You Keep Listening To Them And You'll Be Cruising Mens Rest Rooms Tap Dancing Around Like Fred Astaire With Knee Pads, Chap-stick And A $20.00 Bill In Your Hand !

-Sarge

Now You Silly Ass Punk Little Boy, Do You Understand What We have Been Telling You !!

Stop Listening to Sean And Rush Explaining The Fucking World For You, And Become "INFORMED" !!!

You Keep Listening To Them And You'll Be Cruising Mens Rest Rooms Tap Dancing Around Like Fred Astaire With Knee Pads, Chap-stick And A $20.00 Bill In Your Hand !

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge at 2007-08-30 03:40 PM |

3rd times a charm.... Fuck off! You're an embaressment.

Hey spud, can you go to japan, germany, democratic korea today and feel reasonaly secure?

Reasonaly?

S Koreans aint feeling too secure since N Korea took the bribe money it was given to not start a nuclear program and then used it to start a nuclear progam and make a bunch of nuclear bombs.

Japan attacked the US on the 7th of Dec waaaay back.

Hitler attacked the allies.

Iraq never attacked the US.

Yer analogy is inapt.

Iraqis were slaughtered like sheep during the Gulf War.

Starved fer years due to US imposed sanctions.

Rumsfeld and Cheney talk of being "greeted as liberators" was never anything but a pipe dream.

There can never be security in Iraq as long as the US continues to occupy the place.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned America lied to the world in order to illegally invade and occupy Iraq fer the benefit of Western Oil intersts.

Iraq must be made into a stable place but America doesn't get an infinite amount of chances at the gold ring here.

The world won't let the US turn Iraq into another version of the ocupied territories in Palestine.

Stealing Iran's oil is off the table.

If America tries it it will considered an undefensible further act of illegal war and the world will ally against the US even more than at present out of sheer self preservation.

Possibly to the point of starting another global conflict.

Historically, there is usually a mad grab fer land and resources at the end of an empire.

It doesn't usually work out too well.

Be Well.

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you.

repeat it after me, it will make you feel a lot better.

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you. (A rapist is not going to rape you)

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you. (A gang banger is not going to shoot/rob/rape you)

A terrorist is NOT going to kill you.(A pedophile is not going to assult your child)

Now, am I wrong, or do you really thing that your life is in danger because of terrorism? (Rapists, gang bangers or pedophiles)

Terrorism! (Gang bangers, pedophiles and rapists)If you are already afraid, then (Gang bangers, rapists and pedophiles)Terrorism has already won. Are you a LOSER?

Why are you so scared?

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 03:37 PM |

Incubus_Con
if it's a pacifist there is no logic

A lesser poster would have made a Larry Craig joke. Thank goodness I'm above all of that...

Good one!

Yoda,

In your humble opinion, is there any difference in us killing innocent civilians in our attempt to quell terrorism on the other side of the word and the deaths that result from isolated terrorist attacks?

If the former number is proven to be higher than the latter, what is the real threat? Who is the real killers?

I understand that you feel that the US should police the world and insure that all people behave like Americans. Put yourself in their shoes just for a moment. I think you would despise us for what we are trying to do in a land that we do not belong.

Bring our troops to OUR borders. Secure OUR airports and seaports. Keep them OUT and you will be safe. Correct?

I don't dictate what my nieghbors do. That is their problem; I just make sure they don't come into my house.

Capiche?

"its the long run that(some of us) we are fighting for."

What Fighting Are You Doing, And Where Are you Doing It At ?

Son If You Don't Have A M4A1 Slung At The Ready In Iraq, Your Not Doing No Damn "Fighting" !!

You Most Likely Have A Pair Of Knee Pads Slung At The Ready Trolling Rest Rooms With A Full clip Of $20.00 Bills !

Stop Making Comments Like You Have A Pair, Because If You Were Fighting For Something You Would Be In Iraq !!

-Sarge

What are you saying? That a coutnry provides your country with the technology and the tools to better your society and you owe nothing in return?


It's apparent you have little respect for contracts.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-30 02:50 PM |


Well, it's been four years and the oil still ain't flowing our way. More oil was available when Saddam had control even working under sanctions and limitations. Now we have even less available Iraq oil on the world market and our own U.S. treasury money we could have used to purchase Iraq oil for ourselves at home is being funneled by the billions down some dark Iraq black hole known as Bush's war

Wasn't Iraq's oil suppose to help pay for this war? Where is it?

Not sure what you attempted to say Incy but yeah, I would say that there is a better chance that you are killed by a gangbanger then a terrorist.

Thank God for good old fashioned law enforcement huh?

But while keeping such potential dangers in mind, it is worth remembering that the total number of people killed since 9/11 by al Qaeda or al Qaeda like operatives outside of Afghanistan and Iraq is not much higher than the number who drown in bathtubs in the United States in a single year, and that the lifetime chance of an American being killed by international terrorism is about one in 80,000 -- about the same chance of being killed by a comet or a meteor.

What's really depressing is I have a greater chance of being killed by a meteor than I do of winning the lottery.

www.foreignaffairs.org

Spud, reasonaly = resonably.

In any event I know a bit about whom did what and when in ww1 and 11 and the Korean and Vietnamese conflicts.

You, being atheist, can't come to grasp the reality of a Holy war named and propagated by old testament(radical Islamist's) peoples.


Take a look around the world with the blinders off. Not just the back yard of the USA and CANADA.

Pssst. They're pretty much everywhere killing the human spirit. Because you choose not to see it or choose not to engage it doesn't make it not a reality.

We (the free world)don't immediately have the resources (though we're working on it) can't change them all at once so we have to pick our battles.

Iraq was the right place at the right time and still is.

A free/democratic(though not perfect) IRAQ in another 20, 30 or even fifty years or even if it takes an eternity is good for the health and well being of humanity.

The domino's will fall regardless. The choice is which ones.

Stop Making Comments Like You Have A Pair, Because If You Were Fighting For Something You Would Be In Iraq !!

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge at 2007-08-30 03:54 PM |


I understand and that's where you are right now.

For the last time, FUCK OFF! You're an embarssment.

Puscubus_Con,

This Is What You Will Become If You Continue On This Un-Informed Course:

Larry Craig

www.huffingtonpost.com

Bob Allen

www.youtube.com

-Sarge

Wasn't Iraq's oil suppose to help pay for this war? Where is it?

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-08-30 03:54 PM |


I planted 4 Golden Delicious apple sapplings yesterday and just sent off 200,000 bushels to Kroger in 250 semis at .39 cents a bushel. I don't know what the fuck is taking so long in Iraq.

Wasn't Iraq's oil suppose to help pay for this war? Where is it?

Posted by CalifChris


That is pretty funny. Someone actually believes that average Americans are going to somehow benefit from this war. Get our money back??? That is too much.

What in the hell are you thinking?

Oh, it's Chris. Never mind........

Puscubus_Con,

No Ass Clown You Are The Bloody Fucking Embarrassment !!

You Are Talking All This Damn Fighting You Are Doing !

Who Are You Fighting ? Where Are You Fighting ?

Too Much Of A Pussy To Join The US Armed Forces? !!

You Know I Have Troops That Have Been Blinded, Blown Apart,and Crippled But They All Want To Go Back To Support Their Buds, Not The Silly Ass Can't Form A Damn Government Iraqis !

So Again Who And Where Are You Doing this Fucking Fighting At?

So When You Are Safe In Your Own Bed Tonight You Be Fucking Grateful For Those Who "Really Fight" Punk !!

-Sarge

planted 4 Golden Delicious apple sapplings yesterday and just sent off 200,000 bushels to Kroger in 250 semis at .39 cents a bushel....

hmmm, hmmmm, hmmm hot apple pie!

What in the hell are you thinking?

Oh, it's Chris. Never mind........

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 04:14 PM


You're touch of irony was not lost on me.

Apple tree planted one day ago = a 4 year old war with no progress??????

Shit, I missed that fucking meeting. Anyone got the minutes to that one?

"The domino's will fall regardless. The choice is which ones."


The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by U.S. intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and it represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States," it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, "Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement," cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of radical Islamic ideology.

The report "says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse," said one U.S. intelligence official.

Iraq Is Causing Them To Fall !!

-Sarge

Matthews: The Crescent is a Frankenstein's Monster

Matthews: Two years ago, King Abdullah of Jordan warned me of what was coming in the Mideast. His prediction was dead on. He spoke of his fears and what the United States was doing in Iraq, toppling one government, electing another, was creating what he called a Shi'a crescent, from Tehran through Baghdad to Beirut that threatened to dominate the Arab world, challenging modern Sunni governments in Egypt and Saudi Arabia and others with an axis of Shi'a power based in Iran.

www.crooksandliars.com

-Sarge

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by U.S. intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and it represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States," it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.


Thanks to US and European pacifists and self percieved intellectuals and even some traitorous blogging ex-sarges (if they actually ever were) shout RETREAT. You're pathetic.

Spud, reasonaly = resonably.

Well, that sounds reasonable, wot else ya got?

In any event I know a bit about whom did what and when in ww1 and 11 and the Korean and Vietnamese conflicts

And Dumbya's got a History Major from Yale.

Go on...

You, being atheist, can't come to grasp the reality of a Holy war named and propagated by old testament(radical Islamist's) peoples

Actually, being an athiest, Spud can see aspects of the so-called holy war emanating not only from from ME Islamic fanatics as you can but also in the fundy whackjob pols in Isreal and the US.

Operation Infinite Mercy?

These are the neo-crusades as well as a blatent grab fer ME oil.

Check out the evengelical component to many of the hastily assembled "private contractor" companies profiteering in this made up war and then get back to Spud on that one.

A free/democratic(though not perfect) IRAQ in another 20, 30 or even fifty years or even if it takes an eternity is good for the health and well being of humanity

Yes, it would be a good thing.

The only real question is how to get there.

You seem to think that eternal occupation is the answer and that it's justifiable.

Are you sure you aint on AIPACs payrole?

The domino's will fall regardless. The choice is which ones

The area is radicalising due to the war. In another generation the hate fer the US will be profound. Far beyond anything we've seen to date.

The longer the US stays in Iraq the less secure the world will be.

And the louder Bin Laden and his ilk will laff.

And the government can't borrow indefinitely to keep this madness up.

And the world won't allow it.

Wot part of that are you not getting?

Be Well.

I planted 4 Golden Delicious apple sapplings yesterday and just sent off 200,000 bushels to Kroger in 250 semis at .39 cents a bushel. I don't know what the fuck is taking so long in Iraq.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-30 04:06 PM | Reply

Apple tree planted one day ago = a 4 year old war with no progress??????

Shit, I missed that fucking meeting. Anyone got the minutes to that one?

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 04:17 PM


I will venture a guess and say that Incubus is trying to say that some things take time. You don't get full grown apples ready for harvest until you have first planted the seeds for growth.

Maybe he's saying that Iraq's government if properly directed and given time to work properly will also produce fruit (oil).

Forgive me for waxing poetically, I was on a roll.


The 100 Years War comes to mind.

Yoda,

In your humble opinion, is there any difference in us killing innocent civilians in our attempt to quell terrorism on the other side of the word and the deaths that result from isolated terrorist attacks?

If the former number is proven to be higher than the latter, what is the real threat? Who is the real killers?

I understand that you feel that the US should police the world and insure that all people behave like Americans. Put yourself in their shoes just for a moment. I think you would despise us for what we are trying to do in a land that we do not belong.

Bring our troops to OUR borders. Secure OUR airports and seaports. Keep them OUT and you will be safe. Correct?

I don't dictate what my nieghbors do. That is their problem; I just make sure they don't come into my house.

Capiche?



Posted by Manypaths

its yodar btw.

yes there is a big difference, first off, we don't aim to kill innocent civiilians. second, do you really think we have killed thousands of innocents in iraq?

if the former number is much higher than the latter, then yes, we are the 'bigger' killers. however, that number isn't higher.... again, neither do we TARGET innocent civilians.

of course there are many iraqis that just want us to get the hell out. i don't believe these are the intelligent iraqis, imho. from what i've read, there are many iraqis that understand the situation, they don't like the US troops, but understand the necessity. they realize that US troops are not trying to take over and have lasting american influence as they have noticed with al qaeda... hence the willingness of sunnis to take up arms against AQ.

as far as focusing on our borders and airports... i could agree with you more. but there is another side to that coin, part of the greatness of our country is its openness. part of the greatness of our future and benevolent relations with neighbors is our openness to visitors and students. we educate over half the intellectual world... this is a VERY good thing. cutting ourselves off from the outside world, imo, is not the best answer to dealing with terrorism. it will simply isolate us, alleviate our future influence on the world, and not be able to keep out willing and able terrorists 100%.

we have to go after this ideology. we have to nip it in the ass.

as your pacifist logic says "i don't dictate what my neighbors do, just that they don't bring it to my house." fine, thats how we are dealing with africa, going great over there right? do you not care about preventing genocide?

the reason we do care about the ME is because of oil, obviously. the current growth rate and amzaingly beautiful pace at which the world economy sustains, relies solely on the stability in that region. we must care.

we need to bring these 'disconnected' states into the 21st century with us... not leave them behind.

But while keeping such potential dangers in mind, it is worth remembering that the total number of people killed since 9/11 by al Qaeda or al Qaeda like operatives outside of Afghanistan and Iraq is not much higher than the number who drown in bathtubs in the United States in a single year, and that the lifetime chance of an American being killed by international terrorism is about one in 80,000 -- about the same chance of being killed by a comet or a meteor.

What's really depressing is I have a greater chance of being killed by a meteor than I do of winning the lottery.

www.foreignaffairs.org

Posted by YAV

yav, these are hystorical figures. nukes haven't come into play YET.

WRONG Ass Clown !!!

Thanks to US and European pacifists and self percieved intellectuals and even some traitorous blogging ex-sarges (if they actually ever were) shout RETREAT. You're pathetic.

Reading If Fundamental Puscubus:

"The report "says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse," said one U.S. intelligence official."

No Help To You Puscubus !! You Are To Afraid To Fight !!

Pathetic ? You Are The "Pathetic Pussy" And You Should Be Fully Ashamed Of Your Punk Ass !! Will Not Join The Fight You Claim To Believe In

-Sarge

So Yoda, you are saying that the ends justify the means.

It doesn't matter to you who dies as long as it is for what you consider to be a good cause.

Why does that mentality sound familiar? Who do you share that with?

i never said that. please don't put words in my typing.

and again its yodar, you obviously aren't reading closely! jk.

spud sez: as long as US troops are in iraq, americans will be less safe.

i ask spud: by that logic, you are saying that if we pull out of iraq, americans will be more safe?

how safe will iraqis be? what kind of future do you see iraq having if we leave it up to biggest thug to take over.... again.

what kind of presense do you think AQ would have there in the future.... it being another diconnected state without any security?

assuming AQ would have a greater presence in iraq sans US troops (i think thats fair to say no?), would americans be safer with an AQ safe haven?

Analyst Roger Cressey knocks down the lies and spin of Bush's increasingly delusional assertions of al Qaeda in Iraq.

... it's completely misleading. The organization that attacked us on 9/11 is still trying to attack us. That is the group that is primarily on the Afghan/Pakistan border that you've seen all the intelligence community assessments about in the past few days. The group inside Iraq is very indigenous. It's a function of what happened in Iraq after Saddam was overthrown. In effect, we've actually helped create the conditions that allowed al Qaeda to take root in Iraq. It's clear that al Qaeda in Iraq has ideological sympathies with al Qaeda Central that clued there's been some communication between the two, but it is false and misleading for the president to make that direct linkage that he did.

www.crooksandliars.com

-Sarge

yes there is a big difference, first off, we don't aim to kill innocent civiilians. second, do you really think we have killed thousands of innocents in iraq?

The answer is Yes. I do think we have killed thousands.

i never said that. please don't put words in my typing.

Don't need to. They are already there.

Yoda is much better, and if you think about it, quite the compliment although not intended. It's just a good visual.

yes there is a big difference, first off, we don't aim to kill innocent civiilians. second, do you really think we have killed thousands of innocents in iraq?...

600,000 and counting

assuming AQ would have a greater presence in iraq sans US troops (i think thats fair to say no?), would americans be safer with an AQ safe haven?

Forgetting AQ had ZERO presence there before we kicked the door down and let them in.

That safe haven that you speak of was givien to them by US forces.

Had we stayed in Afganastan with 130,000 troops, we might have deprived them of that safe haven too. The result of our actions: 2 places for them to get live training.

Capiche?


Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 03:5


Or capishe.

"I say tomato, you say tomaaahto, I say potato, you say potaaaahto" ... :)

many, the ends never justify the means.

the 'means' being the way we have conducted this war/democracy building..... has been HALF-ASSED at best. its the only time any country has pre-emtively gone and occupied a country in the hopes of creating a democracy. our military is not even designed for such a thing (its designed to fight a nuclear war against china and N korea at the same time - 3rd generation warfare) this warfare is outdated, individual ideology of radical islam doesn't claim a state. we don't have the luxery of sending the message, touch us, and we'll obliterate the fuck out of your existance. which was the old message, and created MAD, mutually assured destruction, which put an end to great power war as we know it.

NOW, our military was in no shape or form to conduct such an undertaking... but had the best chance over all other countries. we are learning. this will not be the first time. yes bush and cheney and rummy could have done a MUCH better job planning the damn thing. but now we are in it, and we are in it TO WIN IT.

as i said before, in the short run, this will undoubtedly fuel animosity towards america around the world.... its the long run - of connecting every country in the world and coming together at the same tables and sharing the same wealth, that we are aiming for. and it won't be done easily.

yes there is a big difference, first off, we don't aim to kill innocent civiilians. second, do you really think we have killed thousands of innocents in iraq?

The answer is Yes. I do think we have killed thousands.

i never said that. please don't put words in my typing.

Don't need to. They are already there.

Yoda is much better, and if you think about it, quite the compliment although not intended. It's just a good visual.

Posted by Manypaths

well i think you are wrong. i don't think we have personally killed thousands of innocent civilians. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

if they are already there, then please post them. but accusing me twice now of sayign that the ends justify the means, without any proof, merely shows you are full of BS.

again, your last sentence, has demonstrated the same quality of your personality.

Capiche?


Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 03:5

Or capishe.

"I say tomato, you say tomaaahto, I say potato, you say potaaaahto" ... :)


You say THANKS, I say You're Welcome

600,000 and counting



Posted by CalifChris


by the hands of US troops?

Forgetting AQ had ZERO presence there before we kicked the door down and let them in.

That safe haven that you speak of was givien to them by US forces.

Had we stayed in Afganastan with 130,000 troops, we might have deprived them of that safe haven too. The result of our actions: 2 places for them to get live training.

Posted by Manypaths

i agree, and thats in the past. lets focus on the present and the future shall we?

it is more like 70,000 - 75,000 by the best estimates.

Yes, by the hands of US troops.

You mean, just forget our mistakes? Our tragic mistakes? Just keep doing more of the same right?

You even sound like W.

anyways, i'm off. going to LA for a week so i'll be seeing ya'll much later!

just keep this in mind: we all pretty much want the same things in the end. its simply that we disagree on the best ways to achieve those means.

also: always try to have an open mind. i know i may come accross like a pompus jackass sometimes, but i do read, including ur shit. i never assume that i know more than others, and i NEVER think that i am 100% right. nobody is 100% right, and we will all be better off if we understand that, and listen to others with curiousity instead of subjectiveness.

now have a great labor day, and try to live in the moment.

yodar

many, we are learning. no we shouldnt' forget our mistakes, nor should we DWELL on them. peace.

Have a great day yodar. Fun chatting and glad that we were able to keep the cock sucker referrences out of our discussion.

Yes, we all want the same in the end. Thank God we can discuss the options in public.

Peace

we need to bring these 'disconnected' states into the 21st century with us... not leave them behind

And you somehow figure you can do it militarily.

You are not bringing Iraq into the 21st century by bombing them back to the stone age.

Yodar, you claim America is "helping" in Iraq.

You are mostly wrong.

Depleted Uranium munitions do not help.
Torture does not help.
Ray guns do not help.
Collateral damage does not help.
Indiscriminate bombing does not help.
Stealing oil does not help.
Millions of refugees do not help.

That shit hurts the cause you say you believe in.

Yer essential argument that the US is there to help the Iraqis rather than subjagate them is a case yet to be proven and the clock is ticking.

Be Well.

You say THANKS, I say You're Welcome

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-08-30 05:14 PM | Reply


Thanks.


anyways, i'm off. going to LA for a week so i'll be seeing ya'll much later!

now have a great labor day, and try to live in the moment.

yodar

Posted by Yodar013 at 2007-08-30 05:21 PM | Reply


Geeeze, does this mean I'll have to clear out the spare room?
p.s. -- suppose to be 100 degrees plus until the end of the weekend

Please Illtater. If we really wanted to bomb someone back to the stone age, wouldn't it be done by now? If we really wanted to torture people, would we not do it stormtrooper style? Etc.

Besides, we weren't helping Iraq, we were helping the rest of the world.

""Besides, we weren't helping Iraq, we were helping the rest of the world.""

Oh yeah, that's why the rest of the world cheered us on.....not.
No benefit has been felt by the rest of the world, us or Iraq. The invasion of Iraq was a lose/lose and then lose some more.
The only question that remains to be answered is how much we will lose, how many will lose their lives, when can we cut our losses.

If we really wanted to bomb someone back to the stone age, wouldn't it be done by now?

Haven't you done it by now?

Not full on but definitely more so than less so.

Sewage flowing down the streets?
Electricity that comes and goes?
Water shortages that border on crisis levels.?
Millions of refugees?
Million of internally displaced peoples?
Hundreds of thousands of bodies?
A secular society replaced by one that's increasingly theocratic and radicalised?
Terror squads being funded by the US?
Others being run from w/i the Malaki government?
Tortured bodies found in the streets every day?
AQ where there were none before?

That aint progress and it's a lot closer to the stone age than they were under Saddam.

How sad is that?

If we really wanted to torture people, would we not do it stormtrooper style?

Waterboarding illegal yet?

Black sites closed down?

Gitmo still in place?

Stormtroopers never had such options.

Bad analogy.

America is not a pro-torture state but some folk in this admin have worked to change that.

Besides, we weren't helping Iraq, we were helping the rest of the world.

Fighting a proxy war fer Israel?

Yes, that's part of it too.

"Helping"?

You do know the difference between "helping" and "helping yourself".

Western Oil interests backed up by the US military are "helping themselves" to the Iraqi oil fields and targetting Iran next.

Learn that difference.

Be Well.

Sewage flowing down the streets?
Electricity that comes and goes?
Water shortages that border on crisis levels.?
Millions of refugees?
Million of internally displaced peoples?
Hundreds of thousands of bodies?
A secular society replaced by one that's increasingly theocratic and radicalised?
Terror squads being funded by the US?
Others being run from w/i the Malaki government?
Tortured bodies found in the streets every day?


Welcome to the Bush brand of democracy.

Thanks.



Posted by CalifChris


You're welcome! :)

during the cold war, because at least that ideology was backed by the soviet union. once they fell/failed, it was obvious to the world that their ideology fell/failed.

The Chimp is monkeying up the works so badly we are a bout to lose a war we already apparently won...


www.reuters.com

You can try and explain and rationalize Bush's foreign policy until you are blue in bush land...to no avail

Bush has lost all credibility with me (and alot of the voters) so if you are trying to sell anything he is selling we ain't buying anymore.

Bush still denies Gonzales did anything wrong...You see the problem is...If Bush's lips are moving odds are he is lying.

yodar:
Spud uses same logic as Bush!
"We are fighting them there, so we won't have to fight them over here."

"Let me try this again. FUCK OFF, you're an embarrassment."

Um. {tap tap tap} HELLO????

You've got it backwards on who should be embarrassed.

Posted by YAV at 2007-08-30 03:19 PM | Reply



Careful, now. You remember where foot tapping and a hello got Senator Craig.

5 out of 18 aint bad.

how safe will iraqis be? what kind of future do you see iraq having if we leave it up to biggest thug to take over.... again.

I agree, the last thug to take over Iraq was hung.

The most recent thug is guilty of war crimes and hopefully will be brought to justice.

Spud uses same logic as Bush!
"We are fighting them there, so we won't have to fight them over here."


How the hell do you figure that?

Spud sez the longer you fight them over there the more likely they are to strike you over here.

Get that straight.

Be Well.

***** GAO: Iraq Failing 13 of 18 Benchmarks *****

......I get benchmarks on my ass when I sit too long on those wooden benches...........

The vast majority of America now recognizes that this war is a disaster and that democracy in Iraq is too. We also realize that the violence in Iraq is primarily Iraqis attacking other Iraqis and our soldiers are just there trying to stop the violence which only they can stop for themselves.
Pretty much we all realize the futility of this entire invasion and occupation but still we let our president keep those troops over there getting killed every single day. I think we have become so complacent that most of us don't even feel anything anymore when our guys get killed or wounded. Will America ever wake up??? ARe we so apathetic that we will never stand up to this administration??? I swear I think Americans are drugged or something. We have literally millions of people pouring in over our borders and we do nothing. We have a criminal sitting in the white house keeping our troops in Iraq and we do nothing. I don't think I have ever been less proud of this country. America may have been a proud nation in the past but it definitely is not now.
This country is a fucking joke.

This country is a fucking joke.

don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Hey Handsome

.....see it , name it, fix it.............

......the alternative is a progressive decline......

"Hey Dick-

Why are the American people so upset? 5 of 18 is a passing grade at Yale..."

I'm apalled at why anyone still supports Bush, or this war, and I'm equally tired of assholes who post on this board who pretend to cling to the principles of organized debate (Incubus) when all you do is quibble about the semantics of someone else's posts, pick on grammatical errors, and say "you sound a whole lot like someone else...".

Until someone can come up with a good reason why we're still there that's justified by why we went there in the first place, I'd say anyone defending this war is delusional or mis-informed.

"This country is a fucking joke."

I won't say this country is a joke, but its leadership sure as hell is. Anyone, in any other job, in any other industry, would have been shitcanned long ago for the quality of work that this administration produces. That's a fact you can take to the bank.

Here's a juicy one in case you missed it. This "weapon" could have saved a number of of Iraqi and American lives in Iraq, but the Bush administration chose not to use it because "the weapon itself might be seen as a torture device". They were concerned about the appearance of torture? Does anyone else see the irony?

www.foxnews.com

AND, it's from Faux News, so it MUST be true!

"The GAO is to give a classified briefing about its findings to lawmakers on Thursday."

We need an investigation into the leak of this information. There is no reason the public should have received any info on this until it has been properly prepared for Congress and severely edited for the public's view.

I'm still waiting for my, I mean Petraeus' report to be presented.

The hydrocarbon law which takes the oil fields which were under Iraq state control and puts them in the hands of the mega oil corporations so that we can keep printing dollar bills and trading them for the black gold that provides the only tangible resource to bolster our economy........

Without the Hydrocarbon law passing Bush Loses everything.

Posted by Repugnant at 2007-08-30 01:40 PM


This was the original plan. Even if it ever had a snowball's chance in hell of working it has long since been overtaken by events. Could even Bush possibly still believe that it would be worth the paper it was written on, no matter how many troops and "advisors" are left behind in Iraq when the next president finally extricates us from Bush's quagmire?

Iraq failing 13 of 18 benchmarks?

Sounds like its time for some No Invasion Left Behind legislation.

Regards,
etc.

FF for THEPERFECTSTORM!

No Invasion Left Behind. Brilliant!

"No Invasion Left Behind."

Bless you Rogers.
The clear white light ...

Comments are closed for this entry.


Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Copyright 2012 World Readable