1.20.09

Just another confirmation of Shrubs premature senility (or blatant corruption transforming Democracy into Oligarchy).

Shrub's press conferences consist of him coming out and making statements like, "We discussed important things and reached important understandings", or "I saw Putin's soul and trust this guy", or "I understand they're serving pig tonight and I'm looking forward to dinner".

The Emperor has No Clothes

When I saw he quoted Graham Greene I realized somebody has been feeding him (or his speechwriter, of course), a whole new take on this fiasco.

Contradicting the 2004 suggestion that there was a comparison between Iraq and Vietnam.

Then bad.

Now good.

Time for The End.

Bush and his media handlers are playing the "Paris Hilton" card. They know his statements are ridiculous and want us to Numb Down to all his retoric. At the same time he needs to stay in the news to remain relevent. Nothing that comes out of his mouth has any truth..NOTHING so we might as well quit responding to it. The game they have played against the American people and the media is genius...They do what ever they want behind the scenes while we squabble about his useless retoric. Who's the fool now?

while folks like Tadowe would attempt to blame this morass on Democrats for not being patriotic and supporting the lies and misdirections of this Administration in justifying the whole mess in Iraq...

the fact is...

As he has been throughout the Iraq experience, Bush is condemned to play the cards he dealt himself.

we have all just been pointing out that Bushco are all very poor card players.

It all goes back to how and why we are there.. we must never forget how America has been mislead into this Abyss.

That is, the administration has constantly shifted its goals in Iraq to avoid accepting failure and blame -- only to see the new goals drift beyond reach each time. Liberation of Iraqis became occupation by Americans, democracy became an unattainable centralized "national unity" government and this year's military surge has become a device for achieving political reconciliation among people who do not want to reconcile.

I wonder why Mr Hoagland did not mention the lies regarding Iraq's so-called threat to America's National Security and those Ever Elusive Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Are we already trying to gloss that BIG LIE over?

YEAH!

Bush was against the Vietnam analogy before he was for it!

Flip-Flop!

As the "Black and White" wingding Bushiets scurry for any "grey" area they can find!

"In 1955, long before the United States had entered the war, Graham Greene wrote a novel called "The Quiet American." It was set in Saigon and the main character was a young government agent named Alden Pyle.

BUSH: He was a symbol of American purpose and patriotism and dangerous naivete.

Another character describes Alden this way: "I never knew a man who had better motives for all the trouble he caused.""

Surreal. The movie with Michael Caine and Brendan Fraser is well worth seeing. So is "We Were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson. Only wish Bush had read either of the books these were based on.

One wonders if such a leader as Bush would have lasted this long in a country not dominated by the brain-dead. How long are Americans going to let this go on? A handful of fanatics and dead-enders have hijacked our nation while Congress, even after the Taliban in Congress were driven out of power, still hasn't done anything about.

For people of conscience it may be time to take to the streets or stop paying taxes.

Yeah, I'm scratching my head to figure out how comparing Iraq to Vietnam helps Bush. Vietnam was only the most divisive war in American history, and Bush is on "hawk" side, which lost the debate about Vietnam, and I think the vast majority of Americans are glad the hawks lost the Vietnam debate. Even conservative talk radio, which is trying to spin this the way Bush wants, isn't suggesting we were wrong to leave Vietnam when we did, only that "look, see, bad things can happen if we leave." Well, that's too bad, we should never have gone in, and staying the endlessly is NOT AN OPTION.

What would have happened if Bush's argument had worked in the Vietnam era? Would we have been in Vietnam throughout the 80's? The 90's? Still? How many thousands of Americans are alive today who would otherwise have died if we had stayed in Vietnam for another 5, 10, 15 years? Why does Bush want to invite these comparisons?

Yes, the country is brain dead. And as a result our leaders are crap. Even the Democratic presidential candidates (by and large) are only tepidly opposed to the Iraq War. None of them are opposed to it on any sort of principle of non-interference, they are just playing Monday morning quarterback to say "well, Iraq turned out like shit, let's leave." Many of the candidates opposed to Iraq are in favor of attacking Iran or Pakistan, which I assure you will lead to the exact same sorts of situations we are seeing in Iraq.

We need an intelligent President who actually understands that you can't invade foreign cultures and set up American style democracy overnight. That's why I support RON PAUL.

DUTCH those look more appropriate for Rudy.

I don't know. After listening to his stupefying little speech about how Iraq is Vietnam deja vu all over again, I have no problem picturing him skipping around the day room at the Happy Valley Rest Facility in his bathrobe and a frilly pair of those.

stupefying little speech

I wish they were little, they are stupefyingly long and unbelievable painful to even read, let alone listen to.

Why has no one in the news even brought up the obvious question -- just how much longer did Bush think we should have stayed in Viet Nam, given our failure to pacify the country in 10+ years of trying ???

Basically, Gomer Pyle is now Commander in Chief.

The more people die, the bigger the lie must be. Surely one of today's biggest is that if we leave (Vietnam, Iraq), they (Viet Cong, Al Qaeda) will follow us home. WHY in the world would anyone want to do that? The current Doonesbury series has a great take on that myth. herm

"Basically, Gomer Pyle is now Commander in Chief."

Surprise, surprise, surprise Sgt. Carter. Shazaaaaaam!

We lost in Vietnam and the consequences of that loss were nil. Communism didn't spread any faster and never threatened to take root here. The suffering all came during the war.

We'll be lucky if this loss ends up being as inconsequential as the one in Vietnam. If anything, by comparing this situation to Vietnam, Bush is making a case for a pullout.

Don't you just love it when all of a sudden collateral damage has meaning to Bushling? Looky here everyone! If we leave all these innocent people are a gonna get killed! Where was this caring compassionate man when the majority of nations in the world were saying let the inspectors do their job? Now its about the people... the same people he was willing to throw away when he went after Saddam.

Shrub should go back to Hooterville and clear some brush.

We'll be lucky if this loss ends up being as inconsequential as the one in Vietnam. If anything, by comparing this situation to Vietnam, Bush is making a case for a pullout.

Posted by Sully at 2007-08-24 01:56 PM



Greetings Comrade SULLY, I have the most glorious news from those rightwing fascists over at Fox News. Our sister in arms and friend to the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda, is picking up where she left off in the 60's and is joining the cause to assist Islamic Freedom fighters in Iraq. And in honor of the most glorious and successful attacks in London, out folk hero has decided to kick off her campaign for the end of American aggresion and occupation in Iraq by starting another nationwide double-decker bus tour. Just as she mimiced shooting down American planes and riding in tanks with the NVA, Fonda will strap on a bomb and ride threw the cities of America and re-enact the brave actions of our brothers in London.

What a glorious day, indeed. Welcome back, Jane!!


Professor Bates
Gay Professors For Arms-Free Subsistence

"We lost in Vietnam and the consequences of that loss were nil. Communism didn't spread any faster and never threatened to take root here."

The corporations would never allow it to take root here. The corporations spend more bucks than most folks put together will ever see in convincing us to oppose our own best interests. herm

This short article was written by Jonathan Alter in Newsweek in May 2007.

I think it's a short and terrific summary of the differences between Iraq and Viet Nam. We can talk forever about weapons, terrorists, politicians, blah, blah, blah, but the basic difference between the people of Iraq and Viet Nam will never change.

"PHONY ANALOGIES"

The Vietnam War and the Iraq War do have some things in common.

They were both started and perpetuated by heedless, arrogant leaders unwilling to change course, as Ronald Reagan did in Lebanon, when the facts on the ground changed.

They both reflected poor understanding in Washington of local culture and regional politics.

They both featured the unconscionable policy of throwing good young solders after good young soldiers--signing the death warrants of our finest in the name of foolish consistency or mindless fortitude.

But like most disparate historical events, they differ in more profound ways than they resemble each other.

The Vietnam War was at root a struggle over nationalism. The Vietnamese include some ancient tribes, but they are one people, determined for centuries to rid their nation of foreign powers.

By contrast, the Iraq War is at bottom tribal. Our problem there is the inverse of what it was in Vietnam--that the people have no fundamental sense of nationhood. They are three peoples (Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish) who have made it clear at the ballot box and in the streets that they can't live together. Iraq is not in danger of breaking up; it has already broken up. That's an entirely different challenge than we faced in Vietnam.

Here's another way war in Vietnam and Iraq are similar...

They were both started by TEXANS.

Bush is from Connecticut, he's a carpetbagger, but Eisenhower was born in Denton.

I cannot believe the clap trap written above.. Did any of you ever learn to think for yourselves?

The "Bushie this" and "Bushie" than language just reinforces to me that this entire group is 1) Juvenile 2) undereducated 3) sheep.

Even the Washington Post states that Bush has his facts right.

Facts are that the surge has worked, that the government is becoming stable, and we are starting to control the situation.

The difference between this war in Vietnam - In VN we used body counts to bolster our moral, in this war body counts are used to under mine us. We have killed 10X the insurgents over the last 6 months than we have gotten killed over the entire war- but you would never know that unless you search other places than CBS, NBC and ABC.

What all these discussions reinforce to me is that probably none of you: 1) played sports. You never learned the difference between winning and losing. 2) Studied history. Only those armies that WON created a different political structure 3) Understand the impact of Democracy - You take it for granted in the diatribes above - but you have never seen first hand what it was like in the Eastern Block before the wall fell...or how it was in Iraq under Saddam.

Shame on all of you narrow minded bigotted Wimps.

View: Bush's 'Nam Speech shows Desperation

That can't be Elizabeth Hasselback's view.

Barbara Walters, maybe?

Sorry? Wots that? Read the article? Alrighty...

Hoagland? Well that makes more sense to Spud.

Certainly more sense than Dumbya citing 'Nam as a reason fer STAYING in Iraq.

Cheney circa '94 knew that Iraq was destined to be a quagmire.

Dumbya circa '04 knew that Vietnam was an inapt analogy in many respects and avoided it because where it was apt it supported withdrawal.

Not only are they the most corrupt and incompetent administration in the history of the country but they are actually getting measurably DUMBER.

Impeach. Indict. Imprison.

Be Well.

PS: Nice Flip Flop link. "Sassy Tootsies"!

It's the rhinestones that make 'em extra sassy ya know.

Ha! Spud just likes saying the word "Sassy".

Is Fun fer Spud! Woo Hoo!

Spud just reinforces my statements. "Dumya"

Spud - a true potato head. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Here's another way war in Vietnam and Iraq are similar...

They were both started by TEXANS.

That's right.

Napoleon III was born in Plainview, you know.

Professorbates: "Greetings Comrade SULLY,.....blah blah blah.... Jane Fonda ..... blah blah blah....."

Translation: I still support wasting American lives in Iraq because wasting soldiers lives is better than admitting to having been wrong. Of course, I can't admit as much so instead I'll throw around Jane Fonda's name like a monkey flinging shit.

I consider you the traitor and could give a damn what you think, Professor.

Sully,

Wrong about what?

We were right to go into Afganistan - we were right to go into Iraq. We have made a difference. We have had less loss of life in the this war of 3+ years than in hundreds of SINGLE battles in WW2 or VN.

We have changed the makeup of Middle East. AND IF YOU AND THE DEMS IN CONGRESS WOULD GET ON BOARD AND STOP SUPPORTING THE ENEMY we would have even less loss of life than we do now.

No shit!

I wouldn't shit my favorite turd, Zat.

I think dad played against him in 6-man.

Fonda will strap on a bomb and ride threw the cities of America and re-enact the brave actions of our brothers in London.

Hopefully, she'll strive for complete authenticity during her re-enactment.

That'll make it a one-stop trip.

"Would get on board and stop supporting the enemy...."

FOSHAFER, you people have done such a wretched job with all of your wars that the rest of us openly speculate at times YOU are Al-Qaeda.

Why should we get on board? What board? As if there is any there, there? As if you have a clue, or could borrow one. As if you wouldn't scratch your ass with it?

Sorry to be a bit brutal, but where the hell have you been the last four years?

Spud just reinforces my statements. "Dumya"

Actually that's "Dumbya" not "Dumya".

If yer gonna quote Spud at least get it right.

Yer statements? Yer disjointed demented drivel ya mean? Well let's just do that, shall we?

Even the Washington Post states that Bush has his facts right.

WaPo sed wot now?

Facts are that the surge has worked, that the government is becoming stable, and we are starting to control the situation.

Facts are that the new counter-insurgency techniques being used by the troops over in Iraq now are having better results than previously in a military sense but that this in no way shape or form means that the surge is working. The infrastructure continues to degrade while the Malaki government prepares exit strategies fer themselves after the latest NIE sets off a debate over whether he should still be "supported". That's hardly increased stability.

Fact is, the insurgency is a national movement in the main, not an AQ thing as the WH has tried to spin it.

Fact is, you can't win out in the long term over a commited insurgency as it can become a generational thing. You can win every battle and brag about attition rates and still lose the war.

That's the primary lesson of Vietnam that Dumbya has so painfully failed to learn.

Spud - a true potato head. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Coffee is Spud's friend.

Spud politely suggests that FO Shaffer is the one who's still asleep.

Be Well.

Related to this, and at the risk of huring FOSHAFER's feelings further---Anyone hearing reports Bush was observed suddenly to stand up and speak in a language no one knew?

Anyone hear that he that he is having difficulty recognizing and responding to people at all, unless preped entirely beforehand?

"Shame on all of you narrow minded bigotted Wimps."

This is the best we can expect from the inarticulate right??? As a narrow minded one-T bigoted lower case wimp, I feel damlittle shame at defending peace, justice, the American constitution and whatever few good things we might get once a Democrat takes office. herm

FOSHAFFER

Facts are that the surge has worked, that the government is becoming stable, and we are starting to control the situation....

You won't mind if I bookmark this for future ammo, will you hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Anyone hear that Zed was banned for life from Burnet County after the Deputy Sheriff caught him with those ewes and a bottle of Beam in the shearing shed off of 71?

It was a pretty big deal.

Just wondering if anyone had heard that.

"We were right to go into Afganistan"

True.

" - we were right to go into Iraq."

Wrong. No WMDs. Posed no threat to us. Wasn't a supporter of anti-US terror. What reason did we have? Forcing democracy on people who hate us and don't want it? Yeah, I can see asking soldiers to die for that, if I hated those soldiers.

"We have made a difference."

Yes, Iraq is different. Not better. Likely to end up more hostile towards us and more friendly towards Islamists, but different. So what?

"We have had less loss of life in the this war of 3+ years than in hundreds of SINGLE battles in WW2 or VN."

Yes, but those lives were lost in order to accomplish nothing. And billions of dollars of our money has been wasted. Your arguement is like saying buying a turd for $10,000 is a bargain because your neighbor paid $100,000 for one. We've gained nothing by having invaded Iraq and therefore every life lost there is a tragic waste. That you seem to think these guys are just numbers on a page speaks volumes.

"We have changed the makeup of Middle East."

Complete fantasy. I can't imagine how you would support such a ridiculous statement.

"AND IF YOU AND THE DEMS IN CONGRESS WOULD GET ON BOARD AND STOP SUPPORTING THE ENEMY we would have even less loss of life than we do now."

I don't support the Dems or the enemy. And I've sent care packages to soldiers in Iraq. I just don't see why sending men to die for no reason is patriotic. I would think that somebody like yourself who likes to waste the lives of our military for nothing is the traitor.

Spud politely suggests that FO Shaffer is the one who's still asleep.

No, I believe its called brain-dead....

"I think dad played against him in 6-man."

Posted by Pinche_Mao

Damn, I thought he would have been born in Paris.

Ah, Pinche---Confess---You were one of the ewes in question----Give us a big kiss, Peaches.

I agree with SULLY.
Right about going into Afghanistan
Wrong about going into Iraq.

Google up Bush Speaks in Unknown Language---There seem several articles listed.

Ewes.... the reason those South Texas cowboys wear their pants legs on the inside of their boots.

Wait....Did you say a bottle of JIM BEAM?...That's disgusting.

Google up Bush Speaks in Unknown Language---There seem several articles listed.

Oh yeah?

Well Googling "Zed" and "Molested Sheep" gives me 537 hits.

"AND IF YOU AND THE DEMS IN CONGRESS WOULD GET ON BOARD AND STOP SUPPORTING THE ENEMY we would have even less loss of life than we do now."

I don't support the Dems or the enemy. And I've sent care packages to soldiers in Iraq. I just don't see why sending men to die for no reason is patriotic. I would think that somebody like yourself who likes to waste the lives of our military for nothing is the traitor.

I think Sully is a conservative who has noticed that the light at the end of the tunnel is not green. Go, Sully. Can we go so far as to suggest that the U.S. has no enemies and "terror" was invented by Karl Rove as a weapon with which to retain power? herm

October- Iraq is like pre-WW2 Germany.
November-Iraq is like pre-WW1 germany.
December- month off, too much turkey and Jim beam
January-Iraq is like pre civil war southern states
February- Iraq is like Crusades
March-Iraq is like Cain and Abel
April-Iraq is like pre-apple Eden.
May-Iraq is like right after the Big Bang.

He'll just keep going until he finds something the Fighty Rightys can sell.

How are you going to kill all the insurgents when 80% of them are native Iraqis? What are we suppose to do -- wipe out almost their entire population? Iraqi insurgents have nowhere else to go. They have to stay and fight. We're the ones who will have to leave.

How pathetic that a good number of those Iraqis joined the insurgency in the first place only to keep their families from starving because they were unemployed. Bush&Co. ordered bombing of all Iraqi factories and has now made the region so unstable to conduct any type of business that more than 60% of Iraqi men are out of work.

"Googling Zed and Molested Sheep gives me 537 hits..."

Yes, it's shear (pun) hell being the last letter in the alphabet.

When asked how sex with a sheep was, the FFA member replied: "Not baaaaaaad".

NG3

You're right. Bush has used just about every war since the beginning of time as a comparison with his war in Iraq.

Foshaffer,

Afghanistan and Iraq are separate issues, one involves al Qaeda, the other a failed attempt to "share" their oil.

Iraq is in shambles and the only accomplishment is enrichment of the military-industrial complex. More Americans have been killed by that action than by binLaden. 650,000 dead Iraqis, probably 7 million disfigured or permanently injured, 4 million displaced, no electrcity, no water, no jobs, not even oil production is at normal levels which has everything to do with the price you pay at the pump.

Two crazy wars have savaged our economy. The dollar is sinking fast. Bush has long since stopped reporting how many dollars he prints every month. Another one of his "defense secrets", even though it has been reported every month for the last hundred years.

But, Afghanistan and Iraq are similar in one important way. They are both a bigger fucking mess than before Shrub was appointed to the Presidency. And we have nothing but deficits to show for it.

"Here's another way war in Vietnam and Iraq are similar...

They were both started by TEXANS.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine"

LBJ: Real Texan

GWB: Fake Texan who loses his drawl the minute he's out of camera range and sounds like his two brothers who have no accent

We have changed the makeup of Middle East....

Posted by foshaffer at 2007-08-24 04:15 PM |

Well, you're right about Bush having brought unity to the Middle East -- ALL those countries now hate us.

GWB: Fake Texan who loses his drawl the minute he's out of camera range and sounds like his two brothers who have no accent

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-08-24 05:03 PM |

Bush makes me puke when he starts to give one of his "good ol' Texas boy" talks. The semi-smirk, the drawl, the head leaning to one side -- he does everything short of hitching up his trousers before he starts his speech.

I consider you the traitor and could give a damn what you think, Professor.


Posted by Sully at 2007-08-24 04:06 PM




Treason
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one's nation. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

Of course we are traitor SULLY, we are on the same team. We understand the need for progressive individuals and collectives to exercise moral authority over less progressive individuals and their property. Works of progressive culture are defined by their vigorous rejection of capitalist falsehoods, as well as by manifesting and reinforcing progressive morals and views. One man's evil is another man's good and vice versa. Right and wrong are fully interchangeable. The terrorist attacks of 9/11 were manifestation of a class struggle of a beleaguered populace against American imperialism. Therefore, George W. Bush and his War on Terror must be evil. But remember - every rule has exceptions including this rule and exceptions from it.

Unite! Organize! Represent!

All power to the Workers' soviet!

Fuck yeah!

Why should we get on board? What board?

Good question, Zed.

Spud presumes a "waterboard" there.

Tony sez...

No, I believe its called brain-dead....

Well, Spud was being polite there.

Scientists have recently deduced that the reason Canadians are unfailingly polite in most instances has to do with the enormous intake of maple syrup in the Canadian diet.

We're just that sweet!

Be Well.

"We have changed the makeup of Middle East...."

See?
Even Revlon is profiting.

"We have changed the makeup of Middle East."

Okay, first a FF for Zat.
Second. Yeah, Iran is stronger and more involved in the rest of the ME than before. Ask Israel about their great "victory" over Iran's proxies hezbollah.

At some point, Iran will admit they were the ones that suckered Bush into taking Saddam out for them. Though it's pretty obvious already.

What does he know about Vietnam. While I spent those years in the Marine Corps he was AWOL and sucking outta the bong . . .

See?
Even Revlon is profiting

Easy, breezy, beautiful "Duck & Covergirl".

Considering the Burqa thing they prolly only really sell a lot of eye liner, oh, and special anti-unibrow tweezers too.

Be Well.

PS: Wot makes 'em special?

They're Zircon encrusted.

How much longer does W think we should have stayed in Vietnam?

Well, he seems to think Korea was a great Victory, because we have a vibrant South Korea as an ally and a partner and North Korea is poor and hungry (and making nuclear weapons).

And that "Victory" only took 50 years plus billions spent on keeping American troops there, apparently for ever.

Is that what "Victory" means to him?

He is a simpleton.

The difference between this war in Vietnam - In VN we used body counts to bolster our moral, in this war body counts are used to under mine us. We have killed 10X the insurgents over the last 6 months than we have gotten killed over the entire war- but you would never know that unless you search other places than CBS, NBC and ABC. they are only insurgents because someone says they are... dead tell no tales.

The US uses body counts to bolster moral because it is so easy for the pro crowd can always say that well gee wiz in ten years of Vietnam we lost ten times as many... blah blah blah.

Really the talking points are tired before they are spoken.

I think the intent was for us to be in the ME forever from the get go. Some people I have spoke to think that making Iraq profitable is worth any amount of lives long as it isn't their own. People sicken me. Far as I can tell it would take a million troops to stabilize Iraq.

A Zat link?... Hmmm *click*

Duck & Cover?

Ah, Spud luffs a good PSA does Spud, especially from the fifties.

Even a simple newpaper can save you from a bad burn

Spud's turn to larf! HA!

Be Well.

Even a simple newpaper can save you from a bad burn

Spud's turn to larf! HA!

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud


"They wanted us to hide under SOMETHING FLAMMABLE!!!"
-Lewis Black

Zat

"Even a simple newpaper can save you from a bad burn"

great video, thanks for the memories.

If a nuke explodes in downtown L.A. I'll grab my morning copy of the Los Angeles Times and wrap myself in it from head to toe for safety and protection from nuclear blast radiation fallout -- that's about all it's good for most times. hahaha

"I'll grab my morning copy of the Los Angeles Times and wrap myself in it from head to toe for safety and protection from nuclear blast radiation fallout -- that's about all it's good for most times. hahaha"

Posted by CalifChris


You could get a parrot.

Far as I can tell it would take a million troops to stabilize Iraq. that is what it took to "win" Gulf War 1 the number from the surrounding Islamic countries alone was almost double what we have there now... including Mujahadeen... aka... al Queda.

This war is so much bullshit

""Unite! Organize! Represent! ""

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson, 1775

the number of Islamic nations involved in this war????

-0-

none

nada

zilch

well on our side anyway....

"Of course we are traitor SULLY, we are on the same team..........."

I'm a communist because I believe that sending our military personnel into a hostile country for no reason and without a sensible plan, undermining another war against real enemies in the process, is a self destructive move. That's your point?

Pretty retarded no matter how clever you go about making it.

Why don't you come up with a clever way of telling us you like the smell of your own shit?

Bush is grasping at straws and knows the the end is nigh. He knows that history will crucify him with stupid blunders both of his own making and allowing himself to be deluded by those around him. There is probably nothing more heart breaking to a man who knows that he has failed with his life and destroyed generations of many others for years to come.

Historians for generations to come will study the failed Administration of George W. Bush. I think that in the end the consensus will simply be that he is a stupid man unqualified for the job who was controlled by others.

"GWB: Fake Texan who loses his drawl the minute he's out of camera range and sounds like his two brothers who have no accent

Posted by AMERICANUNITY"

I'd be willing to cosign on that one, but it seems the texans themselves have adopted him as one of their own. In fact, I think they elected him governor twice.

I think Bush is setting the American public up for an expanded war against Iran and Syria. The way he figures, the worse he is, the greater the president he will be seen historically. If truth be told, that's how historians rate presidents. Lincoln and Roosevelt were among the two most destructive presidents in American history, yet myth has them rated among the greatest. In earlier times, when a leader had "Great" after his name, he was a ruthless barbarian. To be called "good" was a put-down.

Ray, I think you've got it just right. This administration has been saying since the beginning that they believe they will be vindicated by history. But we keep on thinking that sometime, some way, they'll come to (their) our senses. We've been taking them seriously every time they open their mouths, trying to hold them to anything they say (well, maybe amy goodman has been trying) when all the while they're just blowing us off. I think the biggest problem with the democrats and the left in general is a failure of imagination. we just can't imagine that a person would do these things, so we discount the evidence of our senses. They were right when they said we were the reality based community. We just didn't see how that could be a negative.

I think Bush is setting the American public up for an expanded war against Iran and Syria.

I'd bet almost anything that was the original plan. I'd say a fair bit of criticism he's been recieving isn't so much for launching a pointless, unjustified war, but for fucking it up. I'm sure a lot of wingers were planning for us to be in Tehran and Damascus by now.

Tha real question is whether Bush will go ahead despite the Iraq clusterfuck just to present the next president with a fait accompli.

right on target, argh.
the criticism has been almost exlusively for screwing up the war, not for getting us into it in the first place.
I'm afraid the only thing that will keep bush from sending troops to iran or syria would be a republican win in 08. If a dem wins, he'll do it for sure, one last big FU to the dems. If the GOP takes the 08 election, he won't have to worry about it, because the next rep. president will do it for him.

In VN we used body counts to bolster our moral,

Until we found out the body counts were totally bogus. I think it was after Tet, somebody did some addition and figured out that, according to the Pentagon we had killed, wounded or captured the entire viet cong and NV army.
And it seems we constantly read about the number of insurgents killed, but due to the Pentagon's serious problem with truth telling, nobody believes them anymore.

Northguy,
what was the evidence that the numbers were bogus?

I wasn't around at the time, so I have to ask.

Was it merely that, as you said, the numbers were greater than the total number of soldiers in country, or was there some further disclosure, some evidence that the military knowingly fabricated these numbers?

The reason I ask is because it makes me wonder. Lets say we take the numbers at face value and merely question the identities of those the numbers are said to represent... it would lead to the conclusion that many of those killed were not soldiers, right?

I never heard that story about using numbers to boost morale (something that scares the hell out of me) and it only took a minute or two after hearing about it to come to my question posted above.

I guess my suggestion is that the administration must realize that using numbers to boost morale of the troops is a double edged sword and the blowback here is that while it may make some soldiers/marines feel better about their mission, it will have quite a different effect on the general population. Might they not want to minimize these numbers today in order to minimize the protest movement, to prevent what eventually happened in Vietnam?

Bush is grasping at straws and knows the the end is nigh. He knows that history will crucify him with stupid blunders both of his own making and allowing himself to be deluded by those around him. There is probably nothing more heart breaking to a man who knows that he has failed with his life and destroyed generations of many others for years to come.

Posted by reznwerks at 2007-08-24 09:02 PM | Reply

reznwerks you must be a very generous, sympathetic and possibly naive person to think this. Bush is deluded, but he has absolutely no shame, no remorse, no heartbreak. If he has to, he will blame God, his friend who talked to him and told him what to do. This man deserves no sympathy for what he has done to his country.

Re: We have changed the makeup of Middle East. AND IF YOU AND THE DEMS IN CONGRESS WOULD GET ON BOARD AND STOP SUPPORTING THE ENEMY we would have even less loss of life than we do now.

A modest proposal to those who claim to support this war (but I don't think you really do):

If you sincerely believe that the war should continue to be fought, volunteer to go fight in it. If you cannot fight, because you are too old, too fat or too scared or whatever, then at least contribute to the war. Do not ask us, those of us who are against the war, to support it with our tax dollars or our children.

Even for us who are against the war, it would make some sense to contribute to an all-volunteer force for Iraq. Why? Well for a modest contribution we could be rid of the notion that "we" are in Iraq. By paying a few bucks, or a few hundred, it would become "they are in Iraq" -- they, meaning the volunteers.

The Bush administration feels that Iraq is the defining struggle of the 21st century. It feels that if we lose in Iraq, ultimately the terrorists will take over the world. I do not agree. If it were true, there would be volunteers all over the place. Everyone would know that if they didn't fight, there would be al Queda on every street corner in Brooklyn. But words, even words that can cause fear, are just words.

I don't, and many if not most Americans don't, believe the "defining struggle" rhetoric because we do not see anyone prominent volunteering. No one sets an example. No one really shows how important they think Iraq is. Bush and Cheney are said to be too old? They have relatives, don't they? Or, heck, there may be non-combat jobs that can be done in Iraq.

Bush keeps trying to convince us using nothing more than words. We do not believe him. Here's how to convince us: Volunteer! Or at least organize a group of volunteers.

By all-volunteer, I mean people who specifically volunteer to fight in Iraq, not our military who are forced to serve for three or four 15-month tours. Not those who volunteer for the bonus. Only those who volunteer specifically for Iraq and for the duration of the war.

It would be ideal for these alleged supporters of Iraq to have a force of their own, say like the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in Spain or the Flying Tigers in China.

Frankly, I do not think there would be any significant number of volunteers, but I sure hope there are because 1) it would show that the right wing is really sincere and not theoretical in its support of the Iraq war; and 2) to the extent volunteers serve in Iraq then the normal military can go on to other things like Afghanistan or simply training to be ready for the next crisis.

Why don't you come up with a clever way of telling us you like the smell of your own shit?


Posted by Sully at 2007-08-24 08:29 PM


Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson, 1775

Posted by danni at 2007-08-24 07:22 PM

SULLY, listen to DANNI!

We are not bound by simple Patriotism, we are united by ideas! Because we, progressives, are never unpatriotic - even when we pass this country's nuclear secrets to Chinese intelligence, or when we disclose this country's intelligence secrets on the pages of the New York Times. Or, on a smaller level of "citizen diplomacy," when we write a rant titled "American Ugly" and send it to Daily Kos for publication.

These are all signs of RADICAL PATRIOTISM - if you really think about it. But you have to think very hard - or better yet, delegate the thinking to us because it is, well, a hard job that requires qualifications of an American Socialist Vanguard.


Professor Bates
Homosexual Bush Haters For Oil-Free Solar System

ProfessorBates-
I too was troubled that the NYT revealed that Bush had been violating federal law in secret for years.

They should be sent to Guantanamo fer sure.

What was "American Ugly"?

Even the Washington Post states that Bush has his facts right.

Facts are that the surge has worked, that the government is becoming stable, and we are starting to control the situation.


The surge is working to prevent violence in the same way a cop standing on a red state porch prevents the wife inside the house from being beaten.

Once the cop leaves, the poor wife/sister gets her ass whupped.

Do not ask us, those of us who are against the war, to support it with our tax dollars or our children.

Posted by smrstrauss at 2007-08-25 12:05 AM


If my children and I do not have any taxes for Entitlement Programs you got a deal!

"GWB: Fake Texan who loses his drawl the minute he's out of camera range and sounds like his two brothers who have no accent

Posted by AMERICANUNITY"

I'd be willing to cosign on that one, but it seems the texans themselves have adopted him as one of their own. In fact, I think they elected him governor twice.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Not if he resorted back to the accent he had before he was bought the 'managing partner' position for the Texas Rangers by friends of his dad who wanted White House access.

Sounded just like his dad and brothers.

Texans fell for his fake cowboy act.

George Bush being a Texan makes me want to give Texas back to Mexico.

""If my children and I do not have any taxes for Entitlement Programs you got a deal!""

Then who would pay for your food stamps????
Red states receive more money from the federal government than they pay in.
nuf said

"George Bush being a Texan makes me want to give Texas back to Mexico."

Posted by danni

Bush is a carpetbagger from Connecticut.

I had family at San Jacinto.
They kicked Santa Anna's sorry ass in 18 minutes.
Shortest battle in history.

Texas isn't yours to give Danni.

"George Bush being a Texan makes me want to give Texas back to Mexico."

Posted by danni

I was going to say the same thing, Danni, but decided I wasn't in the mood to hear it from rabid texans and those who love them, like the blind swordsman over here who believe that the whole country (maybe the whole world) is nothing more than the far reaches of texas.

California? Hell, that's just West Texas.

New York? Northeast Texas.

You get the idea.

'nothing more than the far reaches of texas(sic).'

What are you smoking?
Was it $4,000 an ounce?
Got any left?

Bush is from Connecticut.
Deal with it.

Maybe during the speech Bush was having an Out-of-body experience.

A bunch of mistakes from year one continuing on, covered up by brashness and anger. Look GOPs -- Dubya's had one failure after another: AQ attack warnings missed, 9/11, Crusade & "Axis of Evil" rhetoric, Iraq WMD pony shows at the UN, a botched occupation on a shoestring budget with an incompetent SECDEF at the center, Medals Of Freedom incompetents all around, Albert Gonzalez, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, Dick Cheney, Hariette Myers, Katrina, "Old Europe", "Stuff happens", "Putin's soul", and on and on and on.

The GOP has to stick by their dumba$$ leader for another year. Who knows, maybe he'll invade another two or three or four counties before this term is up. Heck, who cares about Cuba, Venezuela or Iran and Syria? And who cares if the military is already stretched thin. It's a sink or swim world, and Dubya wants to go out with a bang.

Correction: Make that phrase read "Medals Of Freedom FOR incompetents all around..."

"What are you smoking?
Was it $4,000 an ounce?
Got any left?

Bush is from Connecticut.
Deal with it."

Posted by Zatoichi

I'll deal with it as soon as you deal with the fact that Texas has adopted him, blind man.

Connecticut was soiled with the shrub by an accident of birth, Texas soiled themselves willingly.

Who knew a pair of boots and a pitifully affected accent could go so far in texas?

It was a great speech and President Bush needs to do them every week.

The Dems are the party of defeat and want what happened in Vietnam after they cut off the funding--to happen in Iraq.

Friggin buttheads!


Murphy

The Republicans are the party of unnecessary deaths for our soldiers and want what happened in Vietnam to happen to them in Iraq.
The president is a sociopath who should be impeached and incarcerated and handed over to a world tribunal for crimes against humanity.

Brittish medical journal Lancet now estimates Iraqi death toll at 1,000,000.
Over 2,000,000 living in exile.

Puhleeez just don't try to pretend that there is any excuse or justification for this crime against humanity. Those responsible need to be punished.
This nation needs to be ashamed.