.................prick........
........

no mexican left behind.

.........the insurance companies are calling the shots........

Exercise self control. Don't have kids until there's money in the bank.

Use your head...

YYYYYEEEEEEHHHHAAAWWWWW!!!!

Fine. To hell with him. He can only control how states use federal funds. The states (Vermont comes to mind) still have the power to make their own programs. After this complete disaster of an administration, I think motivating states to become increasingly self-reliant will ultimately reduce the power of the federal government and hence is a step in the right direction.

The next time we have a deeply religious President, I do hope Jesus condescends to whisper "help people" in his ear. Rather than "kill them."

"Better to decrease the surface population...."

Ebaneezer Scrooge

Under the new policy, a state seeking to enroll a child whose family earns more than 250 percent of the poverty level -- or $51,625 for a family of four -- must first ensure that the child is uninsured for at least one year. The state must also demonstrate that at least 95 percent of children from families making less than 200 percent of the poverty level have been enrolled in the children's health insurance program or Medicaid -- a sign-up rate that no state has yet managed.

If you are making $51k, why aren't your kids insured? In most places in the US, that ain't no chump change.

If you are making $51k, why aren't your kids insured? In most places in the US, that ain't no chump change.

C'mon Petrous, thats $51k per household, which works out to two parents making $500 a week each. I hardly think this places any family on easy street. And what if the parent's jobs don't provide health insurance? Not too many budgets can afford healthcare for 4 on $1000 bucks a week these days.

Two parents both earning 25500 would equal one family making 51000. Hardly highly paid.
I believe that works out to around $12.50 per hour.

Requiring children to be uninsured for one year will cause how many pre-existing conditions?

51K for a family of four?

$3000 a month left or so after SS and Income Taxes?

Electric bill....$300 mo
Gas Bill.........$150 mo
Food.............$600 mo
Auto Fuel......$200 mo
Auto Pymts...$400 mo
Insurance.....
Home, auto..$300 mo
Clothing.......$200 mo
Cable, phone,
Internet .......$200 mo
Cell Phones..$100 mo
Hair Care.....$100 mo
Misc............$200 mo


50K a year doesn't go so far these days for a family of four. Just sayin'...

"Better to decrease the surface population...."

Ebaneezer Scrooge

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


LOL... isn't it "surplus" not "surface?"

Well, when you spend $1 Trillion fightin' terra, there ain't much left over fer the yung'ns

The headline could just have easily been written thus:

"Democrats Seek To Cut Care To Elderly To Pay For Middle-Class Child Health Program; Bush Demurs"

P'ville makes a good point. There's nothing stopping Illinois, Massachusetts, or any of the other states to raise taxes to pay for the programs they feel are necessary, should they wish. $52,000 a year goes a lot farther in, say, Manhattan Kansas than it does in Manhattan, New York. So it would make more sense for such a program in NY than elsewhere, which would suggest the program is best run by the respective states anyhow.

Why Does Bush Hate Sick Little Children ?

Sad, Very Sad.......

-Sarge

Let's break this down... bold is my input:

$3000 a month left or so after SS and Income Taxes?

Electric bill....$300 mo turn out lights
Gas Bill.........$150 mo put on sweaters
Food.............$600 mo don't buy name brand, eat more salads
Auto Fuel......$200 mo not much you can do about this if you HAVE to drive
Auto Pymts...$400 mo same as above
Insurance.....
Home, auto..$300 mo mine is $207... shop around
Clothing.......$200 mo What are you fucking shitting me? This is retarded... it should be $0-50 tops...especially if you only make $50K
Cable, phone,
Internet .......$200 mo Get Verizon FiOS if available
Cell Phones..$100 mo Unecessary luxury when compared to health insurance
Hair Care.....$100 mo Again this is just fucking ridiculous
Misc............$200 mo this is even sillier then the clothing one. If you only make $50K a year, cut back on these Misc expenses

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


So that should add about $500-1000 a month... go buy fucking insurance.

Also if a family of 4 is only making 50K then either both your jobs suck, or one of them does... go get a better job... if none exist in your area... move.

......how about the families who make 20 or 30 thousand ?......no way they can afford insurance.......

......I can see the same people who are against raising the minimum wage also think people making 7.00 an hour should be able to pay 1200.00 a month for insurance....

......how about the families who make 20 or 30 thousand ?......no way they can afford insurance.......

When do you qualify for Medicaid?

problem with that budget where is rent or house payment?? Me and tghe old lady are paying 1300.00 a month mortgage on a 3 bedroom.

......I can see the same people who are against raising the minimum wage also think people making 7.00 an hour should be able to pay 1200.00 a month for insurance....

Who do you "see" thinking this? Who specifically thinks a minimum wage worker should pay $1,200/mo for health insurance?

50K a year sucks? I guess I'm doing it wrong. Then again, I'm not shooting out crotch droplings nor do I plan to.

If you are making $51k, why aren't your kids insured? In most places in the US, that ain't no chump change.

Posted by Petrous at 2007-08-21 01:29 PM |


2 kids (one 9 the other 14), 1,000 deduct, 2 grand out of pocket = 110 a month.

Of course that's a hundred and ten less we have to spend on a new suv or a harley. Oh the inhumanity of it all.

50K a year sucks?

For a family of four... well then again that also depends on where you live too... $50K/yr and family of 4 in backwater Mississippi you might okay... in a metropolitan area its a real punch in the balls.

We know where the uninsured issue comes from - ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!! If you ever been to an E.R. anywhere in Los Angeles County you will find 80% of the people NOT speaking English. The Dems want hardworking Americans to spend money to once again help illegal immigrants. I watched an American bleeding with bandages on him waiting because a bunch of non-English speaking patients with coughs are going in first.

50K a year sucks? I guess I'm doing it wrong. Then again, I'm not shooting out crotch droplings nor do I plan to.

Posted by Pleasantville at 2007-08-21 02:17 PM | Reply


What a disgustingly boorish statement P-ville. Would it kill you to refer to them by their proper names: Fuck Trophies?

anericanunity you seem to have left out rent....800-1200 per month.

anericanunity you seem to have left out rent....800-1200 per month.

Posted by danni


With that budget, mortgage will be $4,000/week

"I watched an American bleeding with bandages on him waiting because a bunch of non-English speaking patients with coughs are going in first."

He should have had a good job with great insurence. Fuck'em...

Check;Insurance... Fuck I'm tired today...

Programs already exist for the innocent = children and the elderly, they're referred to as medicaid and medicare.

Keep it up left. Once everyone decides the best thing to own is nothing everyone will decide to do nothing. It'll be great.

******We know where the uninsured issue comes from - ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!! If you ever been to an E.R. anywhere in Los Angeles County you will find 80% of the people NOT speaking English. The Dems want hardworking Americans to spend money to once again help illegal immigrants. I watched an American bleeding with bandages on him waiting because a bunch of non-English speaking patients with coughs are going in first.

Posted by utastaff*******

.......agreed its part of the problem....so why did our Dear Fearless Leader not secure the border..???....because the prick has sold out to the corporations that want cheap wetback labor......

.........but back to the lack of insurance for 40 or 50 million LEGAL Americans...why won't he help....why will he make things worse ???....

My daughter has a very good job and always enjoyed excellent insurance til this year. Now they are only offering HSA. She thinks it is probably because of the extensive heart surgery her boss needed last year that threw their groups' price way higher than before. She has a medical need right now which will cost her $500, but she unfortunately doesn't have $500, and trust me she is anything but lazy and in our area she is already earning good money for someone still working towards their degree.
My son works as an electrician and no insurance is even offered by his company and looking for a new job is not a good idea because no one is hiring in the construction trades right now due to the down turn in the housing market.
But hey, they are just lazy and deserve to have to go bankrupt if they have any significant health need or accident.
I think about now they almost wish they were Canadians.

*****50K a year sucks? I guess I'm doing it wrong. Then again, I'm not shooting out crotch droplings nor do I plan to.

Posted by Pleasantville at 2007-08-21 02:17 PM | Reply ******

...........can't get laid, huh ?........

"Keep it up left. Once everyone decides the best thing to own is nothing everyone will decide to do nothing. It'll be great."

Wow Incupuss that's deep....

I watched an American bleeding with bandages on him waiting because a bunch of non-English speaking patients with coughs are going in first.

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-21 02:20 PM |


Only to be treated by a middle east doctor who can diagnose the patient without ever touching them or being able to understand their words. Ain't it grand?

""The Dems want hardworking Americans to spend money to once again help illegal immigrants.""

It is a REPUBLICAN president who is not enforcing immigration laws. It was Republicans who elected him.

Why Does Bush Hate Sick Little Children?

Cos their lobbyists don't offer kickbacks is Spud's first guess.

Also cos the Insurance industry calls the shots in DC.

"For Profit" health care is an abomination.

Bush's Cuts in Military Family Benefits

Another example of Dumbya's lack of support for the troops.

Bush shits on the troops on a regular basis.

His walk don't match his talk there.

Be Well.

Chill and think about shrill, ooops, I mean chill.

""because the prick has sold out to the corporations that want cheap wetback labor......""

When they are caught hiring illegals they should be forced to pay back to the government the cost of providing whatever services (educational, medical, etc.) that the government provides for illegal aliens times the number of illegal employees.

101,

Would it kill you to refer to them by their proper names: Fuck Trophies?

Trophies? What if they come out stupid or ugly? Well, I guess it still works. Everyone gets a gold star these days.

Rob,

I see what you're saying. There are geographic concerns, and generally speaking my salary sucks for raising a family. Once I'm out of debt I'll be swimming in money. I'm going to buy awesome toys just to break them in front of underpriveledged fuck trophies.

Same should apply to private individual hiring maids, gardeners, etc.

She has a medical need right now which will cost her $500, but she unfortunately doesn't have $500,

$500 is less than my deductible. If she doesn't have $500 for her health then she has huge problems beyond health insurance.

If we put in place a great medical plan for all citizens of this country then your daugher would still be in trouble.

Makes me appreciate my socialized medicine in my socialized country. Go Socialism!!!

".......agreed its part of the problem....so why did our Dear Fearless Leader not secure the border..???....because the prick has sold out to the corporations that want cheap wetback labor......"
--SKIZZIKS

And why do our Democrats in congress insist on supporting him in that matter?

In-your-puss, sorry very bored and not leaving until 6:30 cst... Trying to keep awake and taking pop shots at the peanut gallery passes the time...

The Dems want hardworking Americans to spend money to once again help illegal immigrants.

I think both parties are committed to doing nothing for this.

Skizziks thinks Pvilles non-breeding ways come down to...

...........can't get laid, huh?..

Ummm ...who wants to tell him?

Inkydinkydoo asserts...

"Keep it up left. Once everyone decides the best thing to own is nothing everyone will decide to do nothing. It'll be great."

Chill's impressed.

Wow, Incupuss that's deep....

Yup, they say "still waters run deep".

Of course, sometimes they're just stagnant ponds.

Be Well.

Skiz,

...........can't get laid, huh ?........

I didn't get laid last weekend. But I got laid the weekend before that. And three weekends ago. Not four weekends ago, but certainly five weekends ago. After that my memory gets hazy.

I don't have to worry about having children because I only have sex with illegal immigrants. And everyone knows that it is biologically impossible for us to have kids. Side note: what does "Est en todava?" mean? I hear that a lot. They are surely complimenting my sexual prowess, but I am not entirely sure.

UTA you're full of it. How do you know that the person bleeding in bandages was American? Did you ask to see his birth certificate?

Why Does Bush Hate Sick Little Children? (the same reasons all his predecessors have)

Cos their lobbyists don't offer kickbacks is Spud's first guess. (see above)

Also cos the Insurance industry calls the shots in DC. (see above)

"For Profit" health care is an abomination.(all doctors, nurses, orderlies, and pharmacuetical researchers as well as janitors, and electronic mri inventors and such should take a vow of poverty and work for free.)

Bush's Cuts in Military Family Benefits

Another example of Dumbya's lack of support for the troops.

Bush shits on the troops on a regular basis. (that's why they're offering 20,000 dollar sign on bonuses and va spending has increased to unprecedented levels.)

His walk don't match his talk there. (translation = I don't read or pay attention to facts, I prefer bias head in the sand journalism opposed to reality.)

Be Well.(Translation = stage left, I've never outgrown my cartoon mentality, reality is too much.)



Posted by dethspud at 2007-08-21 02:28 PM |

CJ, who spoke AMERICAN....

CJ, he spoke AMERICAN....

That's it, going to get coffee.

ROB

You obviously don't have kids.

When you do we'll talk about how expensive it is for a family of four (or five).

Shoes (a decent brand that fits and wears well) are very expensive. Kids grow and they need new clothing all the time.

The insurance (full coverage including medical - a must if you happen to get in a wreck) for our 3 cars is almost $3000 a year.

Two sets of braces are very expensive. Orthodontists drive much better cars than we do. The copays on our insurance for the dermatologist run over $150 a month. See, I don't want my kids having pits on their faces if we can help it.

Natural Gas/Sweaters? Take a cold shower? Only our water heater runs on natural gas now. Well, we do like turning on the fireplace once in awhile in the winter (while wearing sweaters). Our natural gas bill was over $500 a month before we switched to elec heat last year.

Haircuts? $12 apiece (plus tips) for my kids, $12 for me, $50 for my wife (including tip). Or should we all look like hillbillies?

Elec. Bill? $300 a month is low. 100 degree heat makes for hard working heat/air units. We switched to elec heat last year when natural gas spiked up so high - and stayed there. Maybe my kids can learn to study by candlelight.

Misc Expenses? Guess we should never rent a movie, eat at McDonalds, go to a show, or have any fun whatsoever.

Also, the 10% we tithe to our church. Guess we should just quit going, eh?

Rob,

You don't know what you're talking about. Period.

*****I'm going to buy awesome toys just to break them in front of underpriveledged fuck trophies.

Posted by Pleasantville a******

......maybe then you can get laid.......

"For a family of four... well then again that also depends on where you live too... $50K/yr and family of 4 in backwater Mississippi you might okay... in a metropolitan area its a real punch in the balls.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

We live in a metropolitan area

I thought we were living in high cotton Rob and should be able to do better.

My wife and I both have to have cell phones. The cheaper plans don't have good coverage (I'm on the road a lot), and so you end up paying more. My daughter has a cheaper cell phone, but the alternative was having my kids tie up the home phone constantly.

Again, Rob. No insult intended towards you. But, you don't have a clue.....

******".......agreed its part of the problem....so why did our Dear Fearless Leader not secure the border..???....because the prick has sold out to the corporations that want cheap wetback labor......"
--SKIZZIKS

And why do our Democrats in congress insist on supporting him in that matter?

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE********

.........because they have sold out also...different cut, same bag of shit......

Americanunity,
Let me be the first to call BS. Electric heat is a rip off for starters. I live in mother fucking buffalo and my heating bill is never even close to $500. I've never seen an electric bill anywhere near yours either.
3 fucking cars? Well for starters you've got 2 two many.
McDonalds isn't a necessity.
Your kids don't need $12 haircuts, your wife doesn't need a $50 haircut. It's called sacrifice.
Have your kids wash their faces and ditch the dermatoligist or let their fucking hair grow to the point they can cover their zits...
An Air conditioner is a luxury also.
Granted shoes and clothes for kids are expensive. The church tything is your decision.


You've got a ton of pork to cut out there before you go crying all broke dick on us.

Here is an idea - if the Dems want to help illegal immigrants so much with healthcare, all they have to do is collectively give 30% of their after tax income to help pay for insurance premiums for illegal immigants. Problem solved. Put up or shut up Dems.

****They are surely complimenting my sexual prowess, but I am not entirely sure.

Posted by Pleasantville a******

....my Spanish is not that good, but I think it means "Hey Marta! Here's the gringo I charge double"

Ah ha, thanks for clearing that up for me Chill. As our bilingual el presidente would say,,,,
Mucho appreciado senor!

Also, the 10% we tithe to our church. Guess we should just quit going, eh?


STOP THAT!!!!! You can't afford health care for your kids but your giving 10% to your church!?!?! Good Lord man, I'm pretty sure God would rather you take care of your kids then help pay the electric bill at a church!

Haircuts? $12 apiece (plus tips) for my kids, $12 for me, $50 for my wife (including tip). Or should we all look like hillbillies?

$50 for a haircut? Really? The only alternative to that is to look like a hillbilly?

Shoes (a decent brand that fits and wears well) are very expensive. Kids grow and they need new clothing all the time.

Kids do not go through a pair of shoes a month

My daughter has a cheaper cell phone, but the alternative was having my kids tie up the home phone constantly.

If your daughter is old enough to have a cell phone, she's old enough to get a job and pay for the damn thing herself.

Again, Rob. No insult intended towards you. But, you don't have a clue.....

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


No, actually now I've got a pretty good one... it sounds like your not willing to sacrafice a few luxuries or make some tough choices, so you want Uncle Sam to pay for everything.

My wife and I can afford our healthcare and our soon to be here daughter, we can pay all our bills... I see no reason why I should have to pay yours.

OK 101

You obviously don't have a family of five living in your house.

We'll start them studying in the dark, eat baloney every day and wearing gloves in the house in the winter (sweaters don't cover hands).

You must not live in a house over 900 square feet if your electric bill is under $300 a month for heating. We do.

My wife and I both work, and my oldest son commutes to college. He'd have rather gone to a four year university, but that will have to wait for his last two years. Oh, and even where he does go to school it costs almost a couple of thousand a semester for tuition, books, supplies, etc.

We sacrifice in all kinds of areas. Too many to try to explain to you.

And your daughter doesn't need a cell phone, that too is a luxury (as well as your wife's). If you're on the road I can understand you having one.

Tell your daughter to limit her phone calls because you can't afford her phone and health insurance.

How many TV's do you have? What about DSL? How many computers?

You seem to think these luxuries are somehow required. You aren't entitled to 3 cars and then entitled to bitch about not having health insurace.

******Here is an idea - if the Dems want to help illegal immigrants so much with healthcare, all they have to do is collectively give 30% of their after tax income to help pay for insurance premiums for illegal immigants. Problem solved. Put up or shut up Dems.

Posted by utastaff******

.........it would not be an issue if the Boy Blunder would secure the border like he was supposed to after 9/11.....Bush sold out, the Republicans sold out, and the Democrats sold on the illegal immigration issue.......

......dont make it partisan.......

Oh, and even where he does go to school it costs almost a couple of thousand a semester for tuition, books, supplies, etc.


My wife and I are over $200,000 in debt for our schooling... tell your son to call Sallie Mae.

I was going to suggest:

Maybe one of your kids could enter a zit popping contest?

...but then I thought better of it...

In all honesty here Americanunity i live in a 1900 square foot house and have never had a bill even close to 500 hundies, and it's 60 years old! Last winter 279 was the highest. Also, so your phone line doesn't get tied up put in a second line. It's costs about 1/10 of a cell phone bill. Yeah the kiddos like 'em but they can use their buddies, make the other parents pay for it! I think the other stuff is legit though.

Illegal immigrantion is a partison issue. The overwhelming majority of Republican DON'T support amnesty for illegal immigrants. Look at what happened to that idiot John McCain. Every bet on the planet would have had him as the next president of the United States if not for his support of amnesty for illegal immigrants. Bush lost huge support from rank and file Republicans for supporting amnesty as well.

There will always be some party members of one side supporting certain issues. Even some Democrats support the Iraq War but most don't and that is surely a partisan issue.

UtaStaff,

Here's an idea - RTFA. Though your idea of citizens designating where their tax dollars go is intriguing. It seems democratic, at least at a first glance, if Amy can say "my taxes will be used to educate gay black people with Downe's Syndrome" and if Bill can say "my taxes will be used to secure my freedom by blowing up a sandbox." Personally, I'd choose for my tax dollars to pay for the power trips of TSA agents who wouldn't know compitence if it set off a metal detector.

ROB

What luxuries?

We tried driving older cars, but spent more on repairs than a car payment with dealer service costs. I just put a $1400 transmission on my son's 10 year old car. That was on top of the brakes, new timing belt, and all the other crap (include that in the 'miscellanous' section).

My wife is required to have a certain level of decorum - even though they don't want to pay that well, and dropped a lot of perks last year when they began outsourcing a lot of their work.....

I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't live in my shoes....

I was going to suggest:

Maybe one of your kids could enter a zit popping contest?

...but then I thought better of it...

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2007-08-21 03:01 PM

I knew there was some perverted reason I missed you being gone, 101 -- your sick sense of humor hahahahahahaha

******Here is an idea - if the Dems want to help illegal immigrants so much with healthcare, all they have to do is collectively give 30% of their after tax income to help pay for insurance premiums for illegal immigants. Problem solved. Put up or shut up Dems.

Posted by utastaff*******

........and would all the Republicans who support the Iraq war send an extra thirty-thousand a year straight to the Pentagon for the next 25 years until the war is paid off ????......

AmericanUnity,

He'd have rather gone to a four year university, but that will have to wait for his last two years. Oh, and even where he does go to school it costs almost a couple of thousand a semester for tuition, books, supplies, etc.

Ok, I'll be serious for once. Don't declare your son on your next tax return. Let him declare himself a ward of the state. Then his financial need for college is based on his shitty, dead end job.

Play the system or it plays you, in a nutshell.

Uta u gonna ignore the question again? I'll just chalk it up to you lying AGAIN. Your mother must be very disappointed.

Also, the 10% we tithe to our church. Guess we should just quit going, eh?


STOP THAT!!!!! You can't afford health care for your kids but your giving 10% to your church!?!?! Good Lord man, I'm pretty sure God would rather you take care of your kids then help pay the electric bill at a church! ( he who doesn't take care of his own first is worse than a non believer. If your preacher isn't preaching that find a new church.)

Haircuts? $12 apiece (plus tips) for my kids, $12 for me, $50 for my wife (including tip). Or should we all look like hillbillies? (What's a hillbilly look like?)

$50 for a haircut? Really? The only alternative to that is to look like a hillbilly?

Shoes (a decent brand that fits and wears well) are very expensive. Kids grow and they need new clothing all the time. (Consignment stores = 2nd hand are very popular along with Goodwill and the salvation army, put your pride in your pocket nobody will notice)

Kids do not go through a pair of shoes a month

My daughter has a cheaper cell phone, but the alternative was having my kids tie up the home phone constantly. (non essential, Whaaaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaaa you sound like my 14 year old.)

If your daughter is old enough to have a cell phone, she's old enough to get a job and pay for the damn thing herself.

Again, Rob. No insult intended towards you. But, you don't have a clue.....(and you aren't good at prioritizing, that's obvious. Again, stick your pride in your pocket, nobody will notice except you)

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Skizziks, I pay about $45,000 a year in state and federal income and property taxes. I am doing my job to pay for the war.

ROB

What luxuries?

Daughter's cellphone, $200/month clothing, %50 haircuts, 3 cars, internet, $200 "misc"

Dude, I'm fine with you doing all this, but don't bitch about healthcare and such if you are still devoting a sizeable amount of income to unnecessary items.

To Rob and 101:

I'm not going to argue with you. Our lives are not analogous. You can say whatever you want - it's a free country.

I'm not going to argue with you. Our lives are not analogous. You can say whatever you want - it's a free country.



Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-08-21 03:15 PM | Reply


I may have been blunt, but I wasn't arguing with you. It's your life, but you have to realize that people don't want to hear somebody bitching about not getting taxpayer funded health insurance when that same person has 3 cars, dsl, dermatologists, multiple cell phones, $12 and $50 haircuts, a $500 gas bill, etc

Learn to spend your money more wisely so the government can spend less of mine unwisely. You just need better money management skills along with family management (stay off the phone dutring certain hours, turn off lights when you're done, public transpo, etc)

******Illegal immigrantion is a partison issue.
UTA *****

.......you must concede that there would be NO issue at all if Bush had secured the border....if he would just allow the immigration department to enforce the laws that exist........

........like the case of Ramos and Campean.....Bush is in the pocket of Mexico and special interest groups......what he has done to this country in the way of immigration is a crime......but its not his only crime, he (and his brain Rove) managed to sucker conservatives into believing he was one of them.........

I'm not going to argue with you. Our lives are not analogous. You can say whatever you want - it's a free country.



Posted by AMERICANUNITY


I've decided to agree with AU... I think Healthcare should be free and so should dental... oh and utility bills, and car payments... and internet bills...

Times are getting tough for my wife and I... last year we wanted to get the 60 inch DLP from Samsung, but thanks to uncle Sam not paying for my groceries we had to get the 51" version. Its bullshit... When are we going to start taking care of each other people!

Ok, I'll be serious for once. Don't declare your son on your next tax return. Let him declare himself a ward of the state. Then his financial need for college is based on his shitty, dead end job.

Play the system or it plays you, in a nutshell.

Posted by Pleasantville at 2007-08-21 03:07 PM


It's okay for professors to live a sedentary lifestyle of tenure, it's just the doctors, nurses, mri inventors, orderlies, janitors and such that should take a vow of poverty. Just ask spud he/she'll tell ya.

OH and where I typically prefer Johnny Walker Blue, I've had to switch to Black!

What is this the fucking stone ages people!!!

Rob,

You don't have a clue how many clothes growing kids go through do you? Not like we shop at Gucci. My wife is the bargain hunter of the century. I haven't bought a new suit in 3 years (although mine are getting 'shiny'.

it costs $400-500 per kid for new school clothes. My daughter's prom dress was $200 by itself.

My oldest son grew 6 inches last year, and his (several years) younger brother 5. Kids are hard on clothes. They're not dressing like models.

Come back in several years and several kids later and we'll talk, OK?

****Skizziks, I pay about $45,000 a year in state and federal income and property taxes. I am doing my job to pay for the war.

Posted by utastaff*****

.........no one is paying for it right now, the costs are just running up a huge debt, last calculation I saw for it was that each family in the US would have to pay 25K EXTRA for about 25-30 years......but we have not EVEN STARTED paying for it yet......we are making the Chinese rich holding our national bonds........

Rob,

We don't have a single plasma TV in the house. The family TV is over 12 years old, and my kids have teeny color TV's in their rooms that have been around the house for many, many years.

I don't get your sarcasm. Sarcasm for sarcasm's sake?

Rob,

You don't have a clue how many clothes growing kids go through do you? Not like we shop at Gucci. My wife is the bargain hunter of the century. I haven't bought a new suit in 3 years (although mine are getting 'shiny'.

it costs $400-500 per kid for new school clothes. My daughter's prom dress was $200 by itself.

My oldest son grew 6 inches last year, and his (several years) younger brother 5. Kids are hard on clothes. They're not dressing like models.

Come back in several years and several kids later and we'll talk, OK?

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-08-21 03:24 PM |


Try this one. Fuck you, you spoiled brat. None of what you're bitching about is the responsibiltiy of another.

My oldest son grew 6 inches last year, and his (several years) younger brother 5.

If he's several years younger, then give him the clothes of the older brother...

If I wanted new clothes I had to buy them... other then that, I got big bro's.

Just ask spud

Seek and ye shall find, Inkster.

Believing that a For Profit Health care system such as is seen in the US is a moral abomination does not equate to Spud thinking Health Care Professionals don't deserve a decent wage.

That's not where the waste is.

Think again.

Did Spud say "Again"? Spud's being generous there.

Be Well.

I don't get your sarcasm. Sarcasm for sarcasm's sake?

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


No, I'm just trying to say I understand your pain.

Why just last week, I bought a shirt that didn't match any of my sneakers, so I had to go out and buy a pair that matched... that's $150 down the drain. If gas was covered by the Fed then I wouldn't have to worry about it so much.

What a pampered ass society. I can't belive this guy(american unity- little a) is crying like this. Typical fucking leftist moron.

Believing that a For Profit Health care system such as is seen in the US is a moral abomination does not equate to Spud thinking Health Care Professionals don't deserve a decent wage.

That's not where the waste is.

Think again.

Did Spud say "Again"? Spud's being generous there.

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud at 2007-08-21 03:30 PM |


Why don't you try thinking again. The profit in the health care system is from keeping the dead alive. The dead? Yeah, those that will never return to productive lives. Dignity isn't allowed in this culture. Why? Possibly because they've been programmed to belive this is all there is?

Yeah, those that will never return to productive lives...

Like my elderly Mom?

"The profit in the health care system is from keeping the dead alive.

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-21 03:36 PM"

Actually, much of the profit goes to people figuring out who is going to pay how much for what. There is a staggering amount of overhead in the system, along with a huge chunk of money devoted to efforts to shift costs, deny payments, services, etc.

Actually, much of the profit goes to people figuring out who is going to pay how much for what. There is a staggering amount of overhead in the system, along with a huge chunk of money devoted to efforts to shift costs, deny payments, services, etc.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2007-08-21 03:40 PM


Amen. We have entire wards of mostly ederly people kept alive(if you can call it that) only by machines
that attempt to deny the ineveitable at the cost of the living. It's eating us up and the compassion that passes for compassion isn't really compassionate at all.

Here's a truth. If you fear death it's likely you'll never live.

Incubus,

It's okay for professors to live a sedentary lifestyle of tenure

The academia you know isn't the academia I know. Professors have a lot of pressure to pull in grant money, to publish things. On top of that they now have to deal with so-called helicopter parents. Sociologists are especially interesting. These are people who will infiltrate a nudist colony for three years just to write an academic dissertation on nudism and nudist culture. Tenure, like paychecks, is earned and there is also a process by which it can be revoked. (See: Ward Churchill.) If you know academians who have it easy, the culprit is likely a board of trustees who doesn't know what it is doing.

To tell you the truth, I think it is fascinating that the Internet, which was specified by technophile academians in a series of RFCs, would be use to demean them.

OH and where I typically prefer Johnny Walker Blue, I've had to switch to Black!

Does your Liquor Store stock it?

I have such a hard time finding it here in AR.

-Sarge

Pleasant, like any other system I think it's possible that it's been corrupted to the point that a necessary break is a requirement to its redemption.

Ps. I don't give a shit why nudists do what they do, most of em are butt ugly anyway and it didn't take me three years to see that. You want to do that kind of research use your own money, not mine.

.........no one is paying for it right now, the costs are just running up a huge debt, last calculation I saw for it was that each family in the US would have to pay 25K EXTRA for about 25-30 years......but we have not EVEN STARTED paying for it yet......we are making the Chinese rich holding our national bonds........



Posted by skizziks
* * * *

Nonsense. There are 80 million households in America. If they all paid an EXTRA 25K this year alone, it would bring in $2 trillion. Stupid idea, though.

China owns about 9% of our outstanding Treasury debt, at a weighted yield to maturity of 4.6%. With inflation at 3.7%, just how, exactly, are we making the Chinese rich holding the bonds?

Feel free to apply a little logic, and a little math, before trying to pull a post like that on us again. Fortunately, I'm here.

like any other system I think it's possible that it's been corrupted to the point that a necessary break is a requirement to its redemption.

I agree that the system shouldn't be raised on a pedastal, held above scrutiny. Because that is how these things become corrupt shells of their former selves.

You want to do that kind of research use your own money, not mine.

If I was in academia I think I'd be working on natural language processing. Or maybe I'd manipulate people while they're hooked up to MRI machines so that I can investigate which parts of the brain light up in response to various stimuli. It's honestly hard to say what research is worthwhile and what research is a waste. I'm personally fine with the government funding social scientists who research human condition. Would we, for example, know that neighborhood cleanups reduce crime rates if Durkheim had been a baker?

I honestly have to shake my head about just how it became an inalienable right to free health care, even for the comfortably middle class. Where does it stop? If we say yes on health care, why not food? Affordable transportation? How about housing? Should there be government-subsidized housing for families making $52,000 a year in Mississippi or Kansas?

Maybe It Is Just Me, I Hate Seeing Children That Are Ill And Die Because They Can't Afford Health Care.

WWJD ?

-Sarge

Maybe It Is Just Me, I Hate Seeing Children That Are Ill And Die Because They Can't Afford Health Care.

* * * *

Oh. But you don't mind if they starve to death? Or die from exposure to the cold? Or do you believe they should have free food and housing too?

"What a pampered ass society. I can't belive this guy(american unity- little a) is crying like this. Typical fucking leftist moron.

Posted by Incubus_Con"

Who's crying? Just explaining to you childless pricks that it's very expensive raising kids.

By the way, I'm a registered Independent, and you're just the type of Republican that's turned me off from voting GOP for the forseeable future.

Personally, I've had all of neocon pricks I can stand and so has everyone I know.....even my GOP friends.

Here's some of your hero Bush's logic:

Pay 48,000 'private security' forces $180,000 a year and fight raising GI pay 3%, saying it's 'too much'.

Ya, sure IncubusCon. I see why math is so hard for you. Too 'fuzzy'.

The 'con' job is being pulled on you.

IncubusCon

I see why you're such a Bush fan with your logic and rhetoric matching his so closely.

Oh, one other thing for you sarcastic folks:

That $200 a month for clothing includes dry cleaning our work clothes. They don't do either my wife's or mine for free unfortunately.

American Unity I don't understand the point you're trying to make, in documenting all your expenses. Are you saying that the taxpayer should pick up the bill for your kids orthodontia and skin treatments? Or that it's not easy to get by on $55k a year in a big city?

I speak for nobody but myself, but many of us believe that when such needs are manifest, they are better handled at the municipal level, by municipal governments. It's not easy for the federal government to say that everyone above this income level is guaranteed access to a program, when--as you demonstrate persuasively--in different parts of the country, there are widely varying costs of living. So how do you propose to do it? And will it be paid for by slashing benefits to the elderly, as the Democratic bill proposed to do?

the most vulnerable people in our society are the children of poor people, according to the right we should not help them. why isn't that poor 5 yr old shining shoes, they say. I find no valid reason for the right's view of not helping those kids. can you christians imagine Jesus being a right winger (just read his word's, words of a liberal)

SARGE

That link didn't work to the direct page I was talking about.

Try this one --

Chris,

Thanks !!!

Not many people like the Blue Label but to me it has the most Authentic Scotch Taste.

Thanks Again

-Sarge

I honestly have to shake my head about just how it became an inalienable right to free health care, even for the comfortably middle class. Where does it stop? If we say yes on health care, why not food? Affordable transportation? How about housing? Should there be government-subsidized housing for families making $52,000 a year in Mississippi or Kansas?

Posted by rightisright

Oh. But you don't mind if they starve to death? Or die from exposure to the cold? Or do you believe they should have free food and housing too?

I'm A Christian Brother !!!

Caring And Helping The Sick And The Poor Is Part Of My Doctrine.

Regardless If I Was An Atheist, I Would Feel The Very Same !!

-Sarge

it costs $400-500 per kid for new school clothes. My daughter's prom dress was $200 by itself.

My oldest son grew 6 inches last year, and his (several years) younger brother 5. Kids are hard on clothes. They're not dressing like models.

Come back in several years and several kids later and we'll talk, OK?

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

BS - I've got kids and I've done my shopping. The costs you provide are very high - what are you buying - namebrands?

Prom dress? The prom is not mandatory. You want to go, have her pay for her own dress. There is always salvation army stores - heck, I've gone to a surplus store and found great clothes for a few bucks.

You gotta learn to shop. Use coupons.
I suggest dropping internet services - that'll save you some bucks. Don't need cable either.

Blue Label is very nice, but it's over-priced IMO.

I've had single malts costing half as much that I felt were noticeably superior.


The problem I have with Blue Label is that it starts off a bit flat/thin, but it DOES finish REAL nice.

I honestly have to shake my head about just how it became an inalienable right to free health care, even for the comfortably middle class.

I honestly have to shake my head when supposedly intelligent individuals see the rest of the world's industrialized nations embracing universal healthcare because it can be operated more efficiently than any free market version can, yet they continue to deny one of the reasons American goods and services aren't as competitive globally is because these costs there are borne throughout society instead of by individual corporations and businesses as it is here.

Even though preventative healthcare remains infinitely less expensive than catastrophic care, we support a system that utilizes the least efficient delivery of services, ie. the Emergency Room, for those who can least afford the costs of any type of healthcare.

The facts seem to have been made many times over: Based on the amount of money already spent in the US on healthcare, every citizen could be covered without compromising access for the majority of people. The market is not the answer for every single problem faced in a free society. Sometimes putting the collective needs before the corporate dollar IS in the people's best interests particularly when it frees much of the burden forced upon corporations and businesses anyway. Just think, if it was the government's job to provide access and payment for healthcare then business wouldn't have to.

"Or that it's not easy to get by on $55k a year in a big city?

RightIsRight"

Exactly

We earn above the 55K threshold anyway. So, all the rude folks who've bashed me for wanting my kids to have decent clothes and live in a cool/warm house accusing me of somehow wanting to bilk the taxpayers for our insurance are talking out of the wrong oriface.

You gotta learn to shop. Use coupons.

I remember how much I hated grocery shopping as a kid. We never just went to one store. We went to every damn grocery store in a fifteen mile radius. My mother had already spent hours circling offers in fliers, clipping coupons. It's a lot of seemingly trivial work (thirty cents there, a quarter here) but it really adds up.

I was also a grocery store cashier during high school. I had a lady who bought an entire cart of groceries for fifty dollars, I shit you not. And I also had some dude spend seven hundred and fifty dollars in the express line. Though that was all seafood.

Just sayin'.

I'm A Christian Brother !!!

Caring And Helping The Sick And The Poor Is Part Of My Doctrine.

Regardless If I Was An Atheist, I Would Feel The Very Same !!

-Sarge

Well put Sarge.

Deth is athiest/ recovering Catholic Spud and feels same same.

Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

Part and Parcel.

Interesting debate going on hereabouts...

Johnny Walker Blue v Johnny Walker Black?

Blue is best but they are both good.

You should never drink em both together though.

That will kick the shit out of you
and then you'll be *a-hem* Black and Blue.

Ha! Someone's liable to wanna shit-kick Spud over his plethora of truly awful jokes like that.

You'd hafta catch Spud first, of course!

Be Well.

"Exercise self control. Don't have kids until there's money in the bank.

Use your head...

YYYYYEEEEEEHHHHAAAWWWWW!!!!"
<

Use the right head, keep it in your pants.

PETROUS

We have a box full of coupons we use every week, thank you.

I mentioned above that the $200 a month for clothing includes dry cleaning bills for my wife and I. We wear clothing that has to be dry cleaned to work. Heck, if we could wash them along with the umpteen loads we do for 6 people living in my house, believe me we would.

Ya, the Salvation Army is brimming with prom dresses too. Sure.

My daughter watches my mother who has Parkinson's until we get home from work. I think she deserves a nice prom dress since the Salvation Army was plum out of them.

God, what a bunch of judgemental people some are here. Arguing against providing health care to kids who need it doesn't speak well for them. They must be some of Bush's 'Christians'. Not my brand for sure......

Hi Spud,

I know what you mean, I fight with the very same thing each day I'm a Catholic so trust me I know, but then out of Nowhere something happen that I just can't explain.

Regardless if you are Religious or not It is just the right thing to do, period. I think to help those who need help is a good thing.

-Sarge

Arguing against providing health care to kids who need it doesn't speak well for them.

Not when they argue in the next thread that spending/wasting $12 Billion a MONTH in Iraq is a worthy cause.....

"I suggest dropping internet services - that'll save you some bucks. Don't need cable either.

Posted by Petrous"

Well, since my wife's work includes having to be online at home (usually until 10 p.m), and my son in college does some of his schoolwork via his school's online methods, I think we'll keep it.

Movies at home on cable are a far better bargain than the $50 it costs the few times a year we go as a family to the theater. We don't have 'on demand' anything. We don't even have HBO.

That's such a small expense anyway compared to the $2200 a year my property taxes just went up after the city reassessed everyone's homes.

God, what a bunch of judgemental people some are here. Arguing against providing health care to kids who need it doesn't speak well for them. They must be some of Bush's 'Christians'. Not my brand for sure......

Posted by AMERICANUNITY
* * * *

Again, you fail to answer my fairly simple questions. Do you similarly advocate providing housing for families making $52k a year? How about free transportation? How about free clothing?

And, how do you intend to pay for it? Is Bush a bad guy for promising to veto the bill which cuts payments to elder care by tens of billions of dollars, to fund this bill? If so, explain why.

It's been interesting to watch this Congress swing into action, after promising only "revenue-neutral" programs. Okay, so here we have a new program they wanted to institute, to guarantee health coverage to children in families making 2.5 times the federal poverty level, irrespective of where they are. They propose paying for it by slashing aid to the elderly, then daring Bush to veto. He does, thus this debate here.

Fascinating, how the Dems are willing to cut aid to those who can't work (the retired, elderly poor) to fund a benefit for those who are. Maybe it's just me, but there doesn't seem to be much that's "Christian" about that. If you wanna quote Jesus, feel free. But I must've missed the passage where he said "Feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and get those poor old bastards over there to pay for it."

Regardless if you are Religious or not It is just the right thing to do, period. I think to help those who need help is a good thing.

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge at 2007-08-21 05:34 PM |


I haven't seen anyone here inferring anything to the contrary. What we have here is a question of at what point. Then we have people like unitywhateverthefuck that think cellphones 3 cars and the latest in kids sneekers are essentials and we should feel sorry for him that he CAN'T SEEM TO HAVE IT ALL.

I for one will help anyone willing to help themselves, Lord knows many have helped me through the years, but they didn't give me their homes or new cars because I wasn't willing to work hard enough or smart enough to get them.

It's the give em a fish or teach em to fish syndrome and many here seem to always subscribe to the give em a fish theory. Sorry, you do with your money as you wish and I'll give mine as I wish. That's all.

When I see people buying T-bones with a LINK card and cigs and beer with cash (and I see it OFTEN)I tend to get a wee bit cynical.

Fascinating, how the Dems are willing to cut aid to those who can't work (the retired, elderly poor) to fund a benefit for those who are. Maybe it's just me, but there doesn't seem to be much that's "Christian" about that. If you wanna quote Jesus, feel free. But I must've missed the passage where he said "Feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and get those poor old bastards over there to pay for it."

Posted by rightisright at 2007-08-21 05:48 PM


There's not a damn thing Christian about that and anyone who has spent more than a cursory glance at the book knows that.

I won't bother finding book chapter and verse, most don't give a shit anyway, but it's always cool to post the wwjd like you know something even though it's obvious you don't.

2 verses come to mind. Paraphrasing..... those who won't/don't take care of their own first are worse than non-belivers and the other is that if a man won't work for his keep he shouldn't eat.

I'm certain Jesus doesn't think cell phones, the latest and greatest kids sneekers, I pods and 3 cars in every garage are the essentials of life.

"Again, you fail to answer my fairly simple questions. Do you similarly advocate providing housing for families making $52k a year? How about free transportation? How about free clothing?"

RightIsRight

What in the world are you talking about?

The $500 Billion spent so far in iraq (plus the $500 Billion yet to be spent on personnel and replacement equipment) makes the argument for children's health insurance pale in comparison.

A preemptive and extremely costly war vs providing health care for American citizens who can't afford it. Geesh. What a tough choice for some to make, eh?

The government is paying more for prescriptions (the largest Medicare expenditure) for the elderly with Medicare Prescription coverage than a company with 40 employees can negotiate.

Bush has blown more money in 6 years than it would take to insure every single U.S. Citizen for that period of time. 4 trillion in national debt added during his tenure would have gone a long way to making sure young and old alike didn't have to go without adequate health care. Maybe that's why we're ranked 42nd in the world on the scale of healthiest people. This used to be America where the president cared about Americans well being first and foremost.

IncubusCon

Boy. You're one sarcastic person.

So, you drive your wife to work everyday rather than a 2nd car, or do you even have a wife and kids? If not, then I can understand how you wouldn't understand how impossible it is to share one car with 3 people going 3 different places.

Or you don't own a cell phone, have internet, or cable? Guess you go to the library to post here, use pay phones (if you can find one anymore), and catch FoxNews at your buddies down the street?

Uh huh.

here is one thing RisR is talking about.

rise of socialism in america........


and regardless of the bullshit headline, this doesnt mean that bush and republicans dont want tohelp children...

but when a son or daughter can get this as old as 24 I think it is.....
THOSE ARE NOT 'CHILDREN" as most of you want the general public to think it is..........


and it also pits old folks against the young.....
and the right is called 'divisive'............

american........you are correct if you talking about 51k not going far...

couple of kids...
cars
car insurance
FOOD
house note/rent

school stuff

COLLEGE......


it is tough, but are we supposed to take care of everybody......even 24 year olds who live at home?

Ah.

Well, we could have built a lot of free houses for that money too. Do you want one? Is that what this is about?

If you want to complain about the cost of Iraq, then you're in good company. And you can take it up with the Congress, too, since they control the pursestrings. But it sounds like you don't mind asking for free healthcare, which you consider a right as an American, and because we're such a rich country, well, why the hell not?

But for millions of Americans, there is much about your lifestyle that seems extravagant. So the question becomes, why should your kids have free health care, when millions of other kids' parents have to pay rent? Or when millions of others don't even have a family car? I mean, aren't housing and transportation basic human needs too? You can de-fund the war in Iraq and turn all of our aircraft carriers to scrap, but you can't go around buying everything for everybody. So do you draw the line only at what you wish you had, but can't presently afford to your satisfaction? Or somewhere else?

BushLover and RightIsRight

In case you missed it, I never once suggested anything regarding health care let alone 'free housing for all'.

I do feel that our national priorities need to be advocating OUR citizens though. Why should massively overpay pharmacutical companies, defense contractors, and for health care compared to the rest of the world? Why does an MRI cost 1/4 the amount in Australia? Why does a box of Kleenex in a U.S. hospital cost $100 as a 'mucous extraction device'? Why does a 'private contractor' in iraq make $180,000 a year while Bush is arguing against a 3% pay raise for our troops?

I think we have our priorities screwed up. That's all.

And I pay for every lick of health care in my family, including my mother's Medicare copays.

I've got no beef with you, Unity. You seem to be a hardworking guy taking care of business.

But if you stick around awhile, you'll see that the DR is populated by people whose views on entitlement spending and welfare goes this way: "Everyone at my income bracket or below should be guaranteed free medical care, free college educations, and high-paying jobs, all paid for by people who are at the income bracket immediately above mine, and higher."

And just so you know: if this bill had passed, your mother's Medicare copay would have gone up to help pay for it.

And I pay for every lick of health care in my family, including my mother's Medicare copays.


Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2007-08-21 06:35


its not sex or fast cars or heman macho bullshit that is the sign of a real man.....but the sentence written above is.

good for you.......

and remember the last line of the headline.........the lowest of the economic ladder.......he is not saying that those people dont need help.........

sarge......I understand bringing up the money missing from iraq.....but what about the millions being spent on stadiums where people play games and owners make millions........

and so many other things we could bring up..........

and the other comment is that with every plank of socialism coming true, we get closer and closer....
national health care......fellow on radio the other night talked about living in bulgaria I think it was....

heart patients waiting months for transplants......only 12 beds available in capitol city set aside for that....they have no other choice available.......but thats another subject..........

BL2,
sarge......I understand bringing up the money missing from iraq.....but what about the millions being spent on stadiums where people play games and owners make millions........

That is Personal and Private Money, I'm A Capitalist, Brother. I Only Care If It Is An Honest Dollar !! You Can make As Much Money As Your Heart Desires, That Is What Makes America Great.

If You Look At the Economics Of T.Roosevelt you will see how Government is Supposed to work.

Patrick Buchanan has it correct with how America is being sold over seas and we are Crippling ourselves.

-Sarge

RightIsRight

So far I see a real 'right vs left' here, with the far right far more sarcastic and insulting whenever they see an opening to be so. (Not talking about you.) Karl Rove lives on.

Anyway, my name says how I feel. Maybe there's not much agreement around here that we need to unite for the good of all of us. If only there were here and in the broader U.S. we'd be a lot better off. I'm sick of all the arguing.

Have a good one.

and it seems that clinton and bush are in the forefront of a global government.....

is it yet another reason why we dont need 4 or 8 more years of someone named clinton or bush????

BushLoveTwo

If I ever need a heart transplant I'm screwed. My insurance policy excludes the procedure under 'experimental procedures', even though they've been performing them since the '70's. Of course, they'd have to find a heart first to transplant even if they did cover it. Those seem to be in mighty short supply these days...At least the kind ones I'd prefer. LOL

heart patients waiting months for transplants......only 12 beds available in capitol city set aside for that....they have no other choice available.......but thats another subject..........

My Point !

Here If You Don't Have Insurance You Don't Get One At All !! Zero You Die !


The fifth Beatle,
Billy Preston Sang it: "Nothing From Nothing"

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
You gotta have something if you wanna be with me
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
You gotta have something if you wanna be with me

I'm not tryin' to be your hero
'Cause that zero, is too cold for me
I'm not tryin' to be your highness
'Cause than minus is too low for me.

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
And I'm not stuffin', believe you me
Don't you remember I told ya, I'm a soldier
In the war on poverty, yeah

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
You gotta have something to be with me
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
You gotta have something to be with me.

-Sarge

The state must also demonstrate that at least 95 percent of children from families making less than 200 percent of the poverty level have been enrolled in the children's health insurance program or Medicaid

I think that this is an outstanding requirement. The program is meant to help the poor so make sure it helps the poor. I suspect that poor kids went uninsured because their parents didn't apply for aid soon enough and all of the CHIP money had been used up by families higher on the economic ladder.

It is hard for me to imagine why a state would have a problem with this requirement.

This was not a particularly bright political move.

Do you suppose that Mr. Bush is a mole, working for a Democrat election victory in '08?

He can't be unaware of the consequences of his position. Or can he? Well, thinking back about the immigration debacle, I suppose that he can.

I wonder if the Republican candidates will distance themselves from him on this issue too.

How much does "adequate" insurance cost? What are the copays?

Chimpy must believe Jesus will cure the children. Well I really don't know for sure, he and Laura may dedicate every waking moment after he retires to healing children. After all, Cheney has supported more Lesbians than the average Joe.

Back and forth. Forth and back.

Yikes!!!

And Yikes again!!!!

Whachuwant, people?

You want to live your lives for yourselves?

Or have the Government pick and choose what sort of life you will live?

Take care of one's self and family on one's own merits?

Or have the Government take care of you?

Either way, it's gonna cost you. There be no denying that.

You want more Socialism or or more Libertarianism?

One abdicates responsibility for one's life to the Government, while the other requires that one take responsibility for one's self.

Whachuwant, people?

"""Everyone at my income bracket or below should be guaranteed free medical care, free college educations, and high-paying jobs, all paid for by people who are at the income bracket immediately above mine, and higher.""

Cuz the dollars we pay not towards health care don't count right???? The right continuously acts as if the middle and working classes don't already pay out enough for medical care to insure everyone and it is pure bull shit. Just take the premiums we now pay into health insurance companies and divert it to a single payer (yes in the form of taxes) and we could insure everyone and have money left over. But don't let the facts get in your way to the truth.

Just take the premiums we now pay into health insurance companies and divert it to a single payer (yes in the form of taxes) and we could insure everyone and have money left over. But don't let the facts get in your way to the truth.

Posted by danni
****

Good idea. And we can take all the money we pay in rent and mortgages, pay it in taxes, and just let the government give everyone a home. Same with cars, food--you name it. So why think small? As soon as you start thinking that way, why bother stopping at healthcare?

My taxes would go up much more than the premiums I currently pay. By definition, were we to switch to such a system, half of the new money coming in would come from those who have seen their premiums--or taxes, whatever you want to call it--rise. If you're unhealthy or make little money, or both, you'll make out better. But if you are higher income and don't have medical bills, you'll be paying more. That's the truth.

First, you don't even have any way of knowing what the details of a plan would even consist of so your claim that your taxes would go up more than your health care premiums is bogus.
Secondly, eventually the cost of medical care for the uninsured falls back onto the taxpayers anyway and providing preventive care is cheaper than providing emergency care.
And yes, if you make little money or you are unhealthy you will make out better but you can't really claim that if you have a higher income you will be paying more because it is provable that we already spend enough to insure everyone without any increase in funds, just a redirection of those funds.
The conservative argument against national health care is undercut by the fact that Americans already spend so much more than any other nation for health care. It isn't as if a real argument can be made that it would become more expensive by removing the profit that insurance companies now get to keep.

"As soon as you start thinking that way, why bother stopping at healthcare?"

And then one can simply stop thinking. Let the Government do the thinking for us. Let the Government take care of all our wants and needs.

C'mon!! Take the Blue pill!!

"Secondly, eventually the cost of medical care for the uninsured falls back onto the taxpayers anyway and providing preventive care is cheaper than providing emergency care."

Then we don't need to change anything. The taxpayers are already paying for the un-insured's healthcare. Hence, everyone is already covered. Who says we don't already have national healthcare?

Secondly, eventually the cost of medical care for the uninsured falls back onto the taxpayers anyway

If the "uninsured" are being treated then why do we think we have a crisis?

Loony,

Scary

If the "uninsured" are being treated then why do we think we have a crisis?

""Secondly, eventually the cost of medical care for the uninsured falls back onto the taxpayers anyway and providing preventive care is cheaper than providing emergency care.""

Why not just read the entire sentence.

Why not just read the entire sentence

I did. Why not answer the question asked? Okay, cost is another issue........for taxpayers and insureds. I happen to be both.

I'm not trying to argue but you are stating that the "uninsured" are being provided medical care.

where is the crisis?

Only to be treated by a middle east doctor who can diagnose the patient without ever touching them or being able to understand their words. Ain't it grand?

Posted by Incubus_Con at 2007-08-21 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

It worked for Bill 'Video Diagnosis' Frist. The righties here were absolutely sure of it.

but when a son or daughter can get this as old as 24 I think it is.....
THOSE ARE NOT 'CHILDREN" as most of you want the general public to think it is..........

Posted by bushlovertwo at


I think this issue is somewhat more complicated than many make it out to be. According to the FAFSA, when alloting financial aid for college, a 24 year can still be considered a dependent and have his/her parents income/assets taken into account.

Electric bill....$300 mo
Gas Bill.........$150 mo
Food.............$600 mo
Auto Fuel......$200 mo
Auto Pymts...$400 mo
Insurance.....
Home, auto..$300 mo
Clothing.......$200 mo
Cable, phone,
Internet .......$200 mo
Cell Phones..$100 mo
Hair Care.....$100 mo
Misc............$200 mo

What kind of crazy budget is this? If this is typical America, no wonder everyone is broke! $200 for internet? I pay $26. I don't have a cell phone. I managed my life fine without one before they became ubiquitous, I still can. $10 haircuts for me. I save and pay cash for my cars. Car payments are stupid. $200 month for clothes?!?

As I said, if this is a typical American budget I now understand why I am one of the few whose only debt is his mortgage.

I hate children. Especially poor children. I don't care if they die. - The GOP

I love children. Especially poor children. That's why I like to pass legislation that redistributes income in a manner that creates a social condition that ensures that the children of poor children will continue to be poor.

That way, politicians who lick the balls of my failed Socialist ideology will continue to have an aggrieved "class" to serve as a clearinghouse for votes so long as people like me continue to use class-baiting as a tool in our political discourse.

Nifty, huh?

---The Left

I love child. I love to engage in unnatural sex acts with them. - Republican legislators and evangelists

I love child. I love to engage in unnatural sex acts with them. - Republican legislators and evangelists

Wow, Counselor.

What an eurudite rejoinder.

Remind never to get busted for cooking Meth in whatever blue state shithole in which you serve as a "public defender".

You've almost inspired me to write a groundbreaking and totally revolutionary Sociological paper that might finally explain why our incarceration rate is so high.

""I love children. Especially poor children. That's why I like to pass legislation that redistributes income in a manner that creates a social condition that ensures that the children of poor children will continue to be poor.""

So, Red States are dependent on Blue states because we give them too much money. Why don't you try to sell that philosophy to the recipients of the money in the Red states????