Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, August 15, 2007

A leading Republican presidential candidate, Rudy Giuliani, has declared he is against the creation of a Palestinian state at present because it would "support terrorism" and endanger US security.

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So?

Ahh, now we know why GZ suddenly gets a woody whenever Rudy's name pops up.
Sorry about the pun.

the same could be said of another republican administration.
but then again... there is chillary.

choose your poison, my friends.

adieu

Chillary? I missed something.

What a dumb comment. A Palestinian State per se would not be a threat. A Hamas run State however would be. Big difference.
For example, a Clinton run State is peaceful and law abiding. A Republican run state is lawless and likes to invade countries on a whim.

this guy is a total joke, a one trick wonder... keep talking Giuliani, any day that I can laugh is a better than one that I don't.

oh man this reminds me of an old old limerick,

There is a poster named GZ,
Who cuts and pastes merrily,
When the topic turns to Rudy,
He sports such a woody,
and then posts one-handedly.

It will be interesting to see how the traditional liberal Jewish voter decides between a staunch Israel supporter like Giuliani and a Palestinian apologist like Clinton.

HRC is no Palestinian apologist. I don't know where you get your info from. As a Senator from NY she is very much part of the pro-Israel crowd. You are either intentionally mischaracterizing her, or don't know what you are talking about.
She is one of many pro-Israeli Democrats, such as myself, who absolutely recognize the right of Israel to exist, but would also like to see some just solution reached in regard to the Palestinians. Unfortunately the Palestinians seem more interested in pyrrhic terrorist attacks than in genuine peace or effective self government.

Hillary Clinton called for the creation of a Palestinian state, contrary to stated US policy, during the time when her husband was president.

Sorry, I forgot to add the link.

query.nytimes.com

Nothing wrong with a Palestinian State. Many of us who support Israel have no problem with the notion of a Palestinian State. So long as it is not run by Hamas or any other terrorist group. At the time HRC called for the creation, Hamas was just a budding phenomena. Redman, you seem to think that anyone who supports Israel must have a hard on to also oppress the Palestinians. You are mistaken.

Hillary Clinton called for the creation of a Palestinian state, contrary to stated US policy, during the time when her husband was president.

Sort of like what Bush is saying right now? Bush, that damn Israel hating liberal...

But it's nice to know Rudy is on AIPAC's payroll. Expect Lieberman (I-ISRAEL) to support him.

There already is a Palestinian state. It's called Jordan. And I've always wondered--why don't the thugs that run the show there now just declare themselves a state, and ask other nations to recognize them? Are they lazy?

Answer: yes, they are. As long as they're a UN enclave and we continue to pour billions of dollars into that sh!thole, the leadership--such as it is--can continue to plunder the place.

I don't know if another Palestinian state would endanger the US or not. But it sure would make for great comedy, at least in the early years when they try to make a horse race of it.

I wouldn't be suprised if GZ gets a job on his election team.

No, I happen to agree with what you said. My interest is in how the Jewish voter will reconcile some of her past statements with their traditional support of liberals. Don't forget, as Mayor of New York, Giuiani also had significant Jewish support.

www.jewishsf.com

Nothing wrong with a Palestinian State. Many of us who support Israel have no problem with the notion of a Palestinian State. So long as it is not run by Hamas or any other terrorist group.

Spud is agree with Moder8 here.

If the Palestinians are serious about achieving statehood the first thing they gotta wrap their wee heads around is the notion that "Death to Isreal" is not a good founding principle. In fact, it's a non-starter, a deal breaker. Trouble is, as RiR alluded to earlier, since becoming a UN enclave the Palestinian leadership has been funnelling most of the monies given to the region into their own pockets and used it to finance personal terror campaigns and to remain in power.

All this sed, it's certainly not helping when the hawkish elements in Israel poke a stick in the hornets nest on a regular basis in an effort to maintain the volatile staus quo here and be able to say "We can't make peace NOW" (tm). Meanwhile the Wall project (some call it a fence--those are the same folk who call the occupied territory the "disputed territory") and the settlements continue apace and Palestinians in Israel itself are routinely treated inhumanely to the point where President Carter amongst others likens the situation to apartheid.

Spud is Pro-Israel, Pro Palestine and Anti Terror.

You can do that ya know.

Be Well.

PS FF fer Coyotes Limerick.

Be Well.

Spud - I didn't read anything in the article that seems to disagree with you. Especially with the idea that the notion of "Death to Isreal" is not a good founding principle

From the article:
"Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel."

"statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace "
Good thing Rudy doesn't expect the same standard from us. Republicans would be 0-3 on that.

A leading Republican presidential candidate, Rudy Giuliani, has declared he is against the creation of a Palestinian state at present because it would "support terrorism" and endanger US security.

He's right. America should be against the creation of any palestinian state that makes the destruction of Israel part of it's compact.

Rudy Guiliani is beholding and no slouch in the finance dept.either! He knows that his biggest backers for his 2008 White House "con" are wealthy Pro-Israel Zionists who own and control the American media!

Per anticad: "..He knows that his biggest backers for his 2008 White House "con" are wealthy Pro-Israel Zionists who own and control the American media!

It was just a matter of time before some troll came onto this thread and started trash talking.

Rudy Giuliani is a Clear and Present Danger to the U.S.

He is clearly pandering to the (Jewish) Right Wing Base which is full of a bunch of Lame Ducks and, of course, BOWA.

Yes and let's throw that nasty Terror word out there as often as we can.

And yet I wonder what would he do with all the the Palestinians?

"Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel."

Oh how simple he makes it sound. Your first clue he doesn't have one!

I suppose Israel doesn't threaten our security by hanging around our neck like an albatross. We back Israel because of some superstitious book (bible)which claimed God gave Israel that land. Guess who wrote the book? The Jews!!! If you want peace in the middles east you have to let all those over there know that the reality is they all have the same DNA flowing in their blood . There is no separate race that exists and they are all mixed up genetically just like everyone else. It's all about religion and the sooner everyone gets on the page of facts and not fiction or beliefs the sooner the non sense will end.

Isreal is a terrorist state, and those whom claim her are terrorists.
Beleive the lie, you are part of the crime.

DNA flowing in their blood . There is no separate race that exists and they are all mixed up genetically just like everyone else. It's all about religion and the sooner everyone gets on the page of facts and not fiction or beliefs the sooner the non sense will end.

100% Correct !!!

The Palestinians Are Closer Genetically To Jews Than Any Other Middle Eastern People !!

-Sarge

Jewish and middle eastern non-jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.

Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B

Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; Department of Genetics, Universita degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel.

[Medline record in process]

Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.

PMID: 10801975, UI: 20300976
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Jun 6;97(12):6769-74


www.peacefaq.com

-Sarge

so this is a 'family feud' then???


and this may be a moot point anyway....


if netenyaho regains his pm post, there might not be a palestinian state..........can I vote for him?

As we have discovered in Iraq, once statehood exists there is no guarantee as to who that state will choose to govern. Rudy and all the rest of the people saying they could only support a Palestinian state with a government other than that chosen by the Palestinian people are really saying they do not ever want to see a Palestinian state because they know that the government could be replaced as soon as statehood is achieved.
AS to the religious claims by Israelis to the land of Israel, just a bunch of superstitious nonsense which they benefited from simply because American leaders sympathized with the Jews of Europe but didn't want to bring them here. The decision to create the state of Israel was perhaps the worst decision made in the past hundred years. Now it is done and we seem stuck with it but nothing, it seems, will ever make the people of that region get along.

good morning young lady......


your first paragraph says that we shouldnt worry if yet another state in the middle east flowers such anti amrican sentiment that they could possibly support suicide bombers, etc......

and your 2nd paragraph says that the jews have no right to lands they say are thiers, but all of the islamic people who claim land are all correct and abused by us and israel.....


this sure seems like the thinking of american leaders prior to 9.11.........and of course your answer is that we are at fault for these events....

I mean I had a 50 50 chance......its either us or israel..............

The existence of a Palentinian state would have no adverse impact on the US. If anything, it could unite Palestinians and give them a common identity which, I think in the long run would be good.

If elements of their society continued there attacks, does anyone for a minute think that the US or Israel would hesitate in attacking them just because they are a state? Of course we wouldn't. It didn't stop us from attacking Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, etc. And, if you can believe some of the presidential candidates, statehood would not prevent us from attacking inside Pakistan is we had actionable intelligence.

BL, all I am saying really is that creating Israel was a stupid idea in the first place and that there will never be peace in the ME. It's called reality.

I just must be a little more hopefull than you are but I can see where you would be skeptical.
every peace treaty they have come up with has not seemed to work....EXCEPT for the one between egypt and israel......maybe that could be a blueprint for the rest of the region......but of course wasnt that part of the region sadat was assasinated?
I dont know if israel failed to abide by those or not BUT I am certain that arrafat didnt........



Too much negotiation going on, not enough bombs being dropped.

There is your Rudy Bushiani trying to out Hawk Bush.

Of course, this makes Rudy just another sniveling Chickenhawk, eh?

Earth to Guiliani: Palestinian terrorism is the Israelis' problem. People who think our well being is somehow directly tied to Israel's shouldn't be allowed to participate in government.

here is one line from the article


Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel."


there is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement......he expects the state to not kill people and threaten our security.......wow....that radical...and corky....not one place did I read even the slightest that there was....in your words..

Too much negotiation going on, not enough bombs being dropped.


so I guess you have some psysic connection?

and while we ponder what the hell 'psysic' is.....lets just say that you cut and pasted a nice little talking point from the daily kos......I thought that kind of shit wasnt allowed???

hee hee

here is one line from the article


Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel."


there is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement......he expects the state to not kill people and threaten our security.......wow....that radical...and corky....not one place did I read even the slightest that there was....in your words..

Too much negotiation going on, not enough bombs being dropped.


so I guess you have some psysic connection?

and while we ponder what the hell 'psysic' is.....lets just say that you cut and pasted a nice little talking point from the daily kos......I thought that kind of shit wasnt allowed???

hee hee


Earth to Guiliani: Palestinian terrorism is the Israelis' problem. People who think our well being is somehow directly tied to Israel's shouldn't be allowed to participate in government.

Posted by Sully at 2007-08-16 09:50 AM | Reply |


and people who dont understand how important it is to us to have a state like israel there shouldnt be allowed to comment on it....


so let me ask....

whats the answer?

do we run from israel...and then what happens......

how long before they cease to exist

how many jews are dead

where do they go

what happens to the land where cell phones and significant computer related items as well as other technologies were developed, where people built the best economy in the region and more average people live better than any average people in the region....

does it become slums like the area taken over by the palestinians not long ago.....


or does little hitler come in and restart the ovens?????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????
/


WAIT A MINUTE>......I ALREADY KNOW YOUR ANSWER.......

we stop supporting israel and they will all live happily ever after.....RIGHT??????????????? /// WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Giuliani needs to look at a glove. A Palestinian state does not pose any threat for the US at all. Whether it poses a threat even for Israel is very doubtful. It is simply political posturing by the blowhard to try to please Jews here in the US.
Makes him look like a political hack, which he is.



"Mr Giuliani said "too much emphasis" had been placed on promoting negotiations"



No psychics needed.

oh danni..........such naivete........

(he said as he sighs)

to be so naive and so OLD is a really sad thing to read on............yuk yuk........

Giuliani needs to look at a glove.
Should be
Giuliani needs to look at a globe.

BL still worships Bush and calls me naive, plus if I am not mistaken you are even older than me.
Hint....I still have a few more before I hit 60.
Can you still say that?

I suppose Israel doesn't threaten our security

Other than a few spies and selling the weapons technology we donate to them to the Chinese...

Since Rudy doesn't want a state that hates Israel, I'm assuming he'll sever diplomatic relationships with saudistan, kuwaitistan and Iraq if he gets elected.

and if the state is hamas controled? is it a threat to us then?

and if the state is hamas controled? is it a threat to us then?

How will they be a threat to us?

Someone ought to let the people of America in on a dirty little secret.
Pssssst. There is no nation on Earth right now that seriously threatens us. There are a few terrorists but no nation. Of course, if the people understood this they might question the hundreds of billions we spend on defense as Ike warned us about.

BL2 - First of all Israel can take care of itself. You are completely ignorant of their capabilities if you don't believe that. Secondly, I don't believe that the American taxpayers are obligated to pay international welfare to anyone. I don't even see how the Constitution grants such powers. I doubt you support large scale welfare at home. Not sure why you support giving money away overseas. People like you who favor Israelis over Americans could always donate privately should our government ever stop unconstitutionally using our money in this way. Lastly, there are things Israel should do to get along with its neighbors that would be in its best long term interests but it doesn't do so because we enable Israeli extremists with our unconditional support.

You're a fool and quite possibly a traitor.

Giuliani has it backwards. Our massive support of Israel makes us a target.

No no no Sully. We must continue to hand Israel billions of dollars a year, it's actually written into the constitoution at this point. The whining and bitching that would ensue from us NOT giving that shitty little country billions of dollars annually would be deafening. We also must not question anything Israel does with the money, they're the good guys, they certainly don't shoot children with it. It is also very bad form to question why the Israeli lobby is the largest, most powerful lobby in the country. Ditto for questioning people who have some misplaced sense of loyalty to a country thousands of miles away. Here's a clue, if you love Israel sooooo much, please go live there. Please send them YOUR money, not mine. And take Joe Lieberman with you, please.

Ironic, isn't it? As Bush flaps around trying to build a "moderate" arab backing to help bail him out in Iraq and deal with Iran, the leading GOP candidate tells the arab world ( and the rest of the world, for that matter)that the issue of a Palestinian state is a no go, in spite of that being a pre-condition for their support on Iraq.

I guess Rudy's knowledge of foreign affairs doesn't go much beyond french dresses. Of course, Ron Paul,already showed us that.
Maybe Rudy should have attended one of those ISG meetings and learned something. Then again, Republicans tend not to want their Presidential candidates too smartified.

Jewish is not a race, it's a religion. Religion is choice. Why are US politicians so concerned with appeasing religious groups?


Someone ought to let the people of America in on a dirty little secret.
Pssssst. There is no nation on Earth right now that seriously threatens us. There are a few terrorists but no nation. Of course, if the people understood this they might question the hundreds of billions we spend on defense as Ike warned us about.

Posted by danni

Pssssssst. danni, its unstable nations (disconnected from the outside world)that create an environment rich for terrorist networks to thrive. ie pakistan, palestine, syria, etc. and terrorist networks are a threat to the US as well as the overall progress of globalization and the ability for 'newly' connected states to enter into the 'core' states.

so yes, a hamas controlled palestine is a threat to the US and the world.

Rudy G. has proven himself a willingly party in the deception of the US public.

Does anyone really believe his nonsense?

For those who care, and are open minded enough to consider both sides of the story before forming their own view:

www.antiwar.com

Rudy is all fur coat and no knickers.

american first, you seem to be forming your opinion based on one occurance (details debated)that happened in '67. the world has changed a bit since then and there are many other things to consider.... my post above yours for one. do you have any info (recent) that refutes what i've laid out?

ps: i'm not a rudy fan, simply putting my opinion on the overall situation out there.

I'm saddened to see you sink in mud North and Coyote you would be wise to look into what your posting before you post nonsense and stick your foot in your mouth.

In fact I support and have supported Joe Biden but I'll support Al Gore when he enters in October depending on his message or course or I will support Gingrich who I believe will end up the candidate for the GOP.

Now what about that woody of mine you latent homosexuals were referring to ?

And as for a Palestinian State ... I support one but the problem is many of the Palestinians do NOT support one. After all they were created as a people for the express purpose of stopping Israel and so making peace is exactly what the religious Islamists forbid. But I know you Lefties think you know better. hahahaha

Palestinians have been about stopping any non Muslim entity from ruling a once Muslim country ie Ottoman Turkey ruled Mandatory Palestine but I don't expect the unread on this site to even realize that.

They are so used to blabbering the bullshit "occupation occupation occupation" that they never realize the West bank and Gaza were respectively occupied by Jordan and Egypt for decades and no one said Boo ... but Lefties being Lefties, they need an enemy aside from America and the Jews seem to be as good as any - I mean why blame those who have sworn publicly to kill us ?

If the Palestinians had their own State, at least we would know what country to attack and who could surrender to us. Gee---they might even have an army to fight.

Jewish propaganda.

Guiliani would be a threat to this nation if "elected" to the office of POTUS.

Isreal, is by far the greatest threat to the US. The support afforded them by our Government is criminal.

Anyone so stupid that they seriously believe the existence of an independent Palestinian state would somehow threaten the security of the United States should not be permitted to vote in elections.

Isreal, is by far the greatest threat to the US.

Wow. What a stupid and nutty comment. Ranks right up there with Tony and Larry believing that the Taliban came to Houston in 1998 to meet with Bush connected oil executives to plot and plan the 9/11 attacks which killed 3000 Americans.

Anyone so stupid that they seriously believe the existence of an independent Palestinian state would somehow threaten the security of the United States should not be permitted to vote in elections.

The truth is that a palestinian state that makes the destruction of one of America's allies the cornerstone of it's sovereignty inherently is a threat to the US.

""Pssssssst. danni, its unstable nations (disconnected from the outside world)that create an environment rich for terrorist networks to thrive.""

Oh, like Saudi Arabia. Like Egypt. Take a look at the list of 19 who did the 9-11 attack.
What is sure to create more terrorists is our attitude that it is up to us whether they may form a nation.

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