Yeah, only corporate america can expect a bailout.

Billions for the airline executives.... no problem.

Billions for oil companies.... no problem.

But nothing for American citizens.

Here's your enormous empathy - now shove it.

"Yeah, only corporate america can expect a bailout."
". . ."
"But nothing for American citizens."

Has he bailed out corporate America before? I don't remember one, but I could be wrong. If he has, I agree that his refusal to help bailout the American homeowner is hypocritical.

"We're at the very early stages of discussion," Bush said. "Anything that would be submitted to Congress ... would have to be revenue-neutral."

Note: He's talking here about helping Americans, NOT about killing Iraqi's. We can borrow money from the Chinese to do that.

So, I am really torn on this issue. It really is to bad that "bailouts" couldn't be done on a case by case basis. For example-

My neighbor built a $370,000 house on an income of $68k per year. They are now struggling. Fuck 'em, they were stupid.

A contractor that I know built over 100 new homes in a community of about 80,000 people in the past two years. 80% of his homes were priced over $350k because it is a bigger profit margin. Many of those homes are still sitting empty. He tried to build more, but the bank won't give him more money. He is now in the process of declaring bankruptcy. Fuck 'em.

A friend took a job in a different part of the state. It was a better job, more stable and good for his family. Their old house is still on the market (9 months @ $980/month). They do have a really nice house (7 yrs old), but the market is flooded by developers that went on a building binge and didn't stop when the market turned sour (see above). So, he's wiped out his savings, stopped saving for retirement, cashed out stocks, etc. Their cars are 6 and 10 years old. - Help 'em, they are getting screwed by the market.

The people who are going to get bailed out are the banks, the Wall Street investment houses and the politically connected.

Bush is right. Why should there be a homeowner bailout?!!! This is not the government's obligation. If you took out a subprime loan, you knew the risk and the overwhelming majority of people who bought a home in the last few years made money a lot of it in most cases. If the gov't bails out homeowners, what's next? Car loans and credit cards? Get serious! It is not the government's obligation to bail out people for being financially irresponsible. Want a bailout, file bankruptcy!

Bush never supported bailouts of corporations either dumb lying libs. He said he would NOT bailout the airlines or automanufactures when asked. Name one company that Bush supported bailing out you lib liars!!!

Help 'em, they are getting screwed by the market.

Tough luck. They were screwed by the Federal Reserve system and the federal government. Americans want big government, now they have to pay for it.

"Why shouldn't they own their own homes? Doesn't it make them better citizens? Doesn't it make them better customers?"

George Bailey, from "It's A Wonderful Life", a movie another George never watches.

Name one company that Bush supported bailing out you lib liars!!!

That's a joke. Bush's friends don't need bailing out. They are well taken care of. Goldman Sachs and Haliburton to name two.

"The people who are going to get bailed out are the banks."
-Ray

Silverado?

Americans want big government, now they have to pay for it.

Posted by Ray at 2007-08-09 09:08 PM

Actually, "Americans" voted for Bush in 2000 as a member of the republican party that generally abhored large government and government intrusion in our lives. What we got was bigger governement than the "big governement liberals" could have imagined.

Ray, what a bailouts are you talking about? You don't have a clue. It's the same liberal crap that the rich are getting bailed out when they are not. If they get any help it is from the private sector NOT the government which is the issue at hand.

The rich are rich because they make smart moves and then can afford $1400 haircuts like Democrat John Edwards. The only way to "bailout" homeowners is for The Fed to lower interest rates and that is NOT a Bush issue. Frankly, they should lower interest rates because they made something like 11 straight rate hikes and went way to far in my opinion.

Want a bailout, file bankruptcy!

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 09:07 PM

didn't the republicans make it really difficult for individuals to file for bankruptcy? Of course, it is still pretty easy for corporations...

"So, he's wiped out his savings, stopped saving for retirement, cashed out stocks, etc. Their cars are 6 and 10 years old. - Help 'em, they are getting screwed by the market."

Sounds familiar. When I got laid off in 2001 I was making good money. I took a very low paying job for almost three years until a good one came along. I also stopped saving for retirement. In fact, I had to dip heavily into my 401k to stay afloat -- with all the horrible tax implications that come with it. My car is currently 7 years old. It hurt a lot, but I got no governement assistance aside from the state unemployment for 6 months.

I'm a 5 time homeowner. With all but the first one I had the option for a variable rate loan, but refused it. It would've been nice to have those cheap payments at first, but I was scared of the unknown.

I hate to sound like a dad giving the "when I was a kid" lecture, but we all go through tough times. We all deal with them. It'd be nice to have Uncle Sugar there with a fistful of $$$ to help us whenever things go bad or to bail us out of our own bad decision making, but it just ain't going to happen.

Utastaff
I didn't say Bush is bailing anybody out. Some rich got that way honestly and others did it the easy way: politically. Both parties play the same game of enriching their friends. Please don't insult me by calling me liberal. They're as crooked as the Reich.

The rich are rich because they make smart moves

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 09:14 PM

Or because they happened to be born into a rich family instead of a poor family. The U.S. economy is not very mobile. In most cases, you are stuck in the income strata that you were born into.


As for Edwards haircut, I will have to punch you in the gob (I made a promise on a different thread). On one hand, Bush threatens a veto for expanding health care to poor kids, on the other hand, Bush gets examined by 11 doctors (12 if you count the supervising WH doctor) to treat his Lymes disease. So, I said that the next time anyone commented about Edward's hair, I would punch them in the gob...

The government, he said, can help out by educating prospective home buyers.

----

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The best consumer is an educated one. It's hard to learn from your mistake if somebody is there to bail you out.

I'm a 5 time homeowner. With all but the first one I had the option for a variable rate loan, but refused it. It would've been nice to have those cheap payments at first, but I was scared of the unknown....It'd be nice to have Uncle Sugar there with a fistful of $$$ to help us whenever things go bad...happen.

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-09 09:17 PM

I agree with you here. I'm on my 3rd house and never took a variable. However, I do think the government can play a role in some places. Overall, I'm not for the bailout, but I do feel bad for the honest folks that are getting screwed.

Also, as someone who has gone through the homebuying thing a few times, I do know that lenders can be real assholes. I had a few banks try to pressure me into spending more on a house with the lure of variable rates. They would use words, like - historically, the rates won't change much (a complete lie) or well, if they start to go up, you can refinance (oh, but we won't tel you how much that costs unless you ask), etc. If you don't have sound advice from a friend, parent, etc. It is pretty easy to fall into the trap that the bank is on your side.

If you don't have sound advice from a friend, parent, etc. It is pretty easy to fall into the trap that the bank is on your side.

----

The same can be said for anything though. From any con artist or fraudulent email stating you've won the British lottery or your rich relative died in Nigeria, etc.

Actually, I think some bailouts might be justified- for working-class homebuyers who were taken total advantage of by an out-of-control lending system. I don't feel a damn bit sorry for those who misstated their income, or bought houses they couldn't really afford on variable-rate mortgages.

But houses are way overpriced, honest mortgages hard to come by, and flim-flam artists inhabit the most venerable and famous of banks nowadays. The Feds should have seen all this stress building, and taken action to persuade lenders to clean up their acts a bit, but nobody did nothin'. Hundreds of thousands of people have signed contracts that should have been illegal in the first freaking place, and you know how it is today- if you can persuade someone to sign a contract, you can enforce it, no matter how egregiously unfair the terms of the contract.

The scams that have been going on in the lending market could have been spotted by anyone who could walk and chew gum. An honest, competent government would have intervened five years ago, enacting limits on lender behavior, and forcing a resetting of terms on the most abusive loans. Nobody did nothin'.

It looks like it's going to be rough, and it was all avoidable.

When going in for a loan, banks are really just salesmen.

Bush has higher priorities: his phony war in the ME.

Silverado?

Posted by Zatoichi

America hasn't learned a fuckin thing since.

From any con artist or fraudulent email stating you've won the British lottery or your rich relative died in Nigeria, etc.

Posted by Pirate at 2007-08-09 09:32 PM |

There is a bit of a difference though. If you buy into the fact that you won a lottery you never played or any of the Nigeria scams, tough luck.

However, if a reputable national bank gives you the hard sell, it is easier to fall victim.

By the way, the Kirby salesguy stopped by the other day. Did you know they get their motors from Porche and their hoses from NASA? Talk about a hard sell.

1st house: 1971 $1 down, 7% fixed, $20,000.

Sold in 1977 and bought waterfront 1,200 square foot house with a dock on Lake Travis for $15,000 cash. Bought Microsoft with some of the rest.

2nd house: 1978 1% down, 7%, 30 year fixed, $110,000 in Highland Park in Austin.

3rd house: 1991 1% down, 7% fixed, $330,000 in Northwest Hills, Austin. Bought DELL at $13.

1994, paid off mortgage.

Only had one mortgage since. Bought a house in South Austin in '94 but realized I could never sell the ranch so I sold the house.

Debt sucks.

" Porche "

First of all, it's Porsche.

"Or because they happened to be born into a rich family instead of a poor family."
--ERIC1111

...because their parents, or their parents' parents, or their parents' parents' parents, made smart moves.

Oh I forgot.
The first house was in a region of Austin known as Hyde Park, just off Red River.

That town used to be a cheap place to live.

because their parents, or their parents' parents, or their parents' parents' parents, made smart moves.


Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2007-08-09 09:46 PM


Or stole or murdered or lied or ran bootleg liquor.

Porsche = Glorified Volkswagon.

Larry

I'm about the lamest person when it comes to financial savvy but even I knew when I had to refinance this house to pay for a new roof that I should never touch a variable loan no matter how enticing the payments were.

Common sense should tell a couple that if one works at McDonalds as the night manager and the other is a cashier at Pep Boys and that if they pay zero dollars down on their house and their mortgage payment can jump up $800 overnight if interest rates shoot up because they let themselves be talked into a variable loan -- guess what -- they can't afford the house.

Many of these loan disasters came from people who borrowed alot and bought expensive homes with the sole intention of flipping them to make a profit by selling them at an even higher price but instead got caught in a bind when the housing sales started to go flat.

That town used to be a cheap place to live.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2007-08-09 09:47 PM

But, did you ever by a Kirby with a Porsche motor?

Curious -- don't these lending companies all have insurance taken out on their loans so that if the buyer defaults on the loan the loan company is covered for the loss even if the person who took out the loan is still liable?

Or they just happened to be talented and lucky.

Old age and treachery
Will overcome youth and skill.

Up to a point.

Many of these loan disasters came from people who borrowed alot and bought expensive homes with the sole intention of flipping them to make a profit by selling them at an even higher price but instead got caught in a bind when the housing sales started to go flat.

Posted by CalifChris at 2007-08-09 09:52 PM

I don't have sympathy for the flippers.

But, how about the McDonald's and Pep Boy cashier that goes to a bank & the bank tells them that they are stupid for paying rent. Look, we can get you into this loan here. Don't worry about the variable rate, you can refinance if interest rates go up. (oh, but you can't refinance for X years and it will cost a couple of grand). So, the easy answer is to say they were stupid and should know better. Perhaps it might even be the right answer...but they got suckered by a sleazy (well off) banker.

"But, did you ever by a Kirby with a Porsche motor?"

Posted by eric1111




No
That would be difficult.

But I flew a Mooney with one once.

Bush has higher priorities: his phony war in the ME.

Posted by Ray at 2007-08-09 09:38 PM


Hmm--I know there are good, brave and honorable men and women dying for you and this country Ray--Not so phony to me.



Murphy

Has he bailed out corporate America before? I don't remember one, but I could be wrong. If he has, I agree that his refusal to help bailout the American homeowner is hypocritical.

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-09 08:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, he has.

The airlines recieved BILLIONS in our tax dollars after 911 and not one executive took a paycut. This is hardly he first time the govt has doe this.

The 14 billion dollar energy bill three years ago was simply a handout of 14 BILLION dollars to the Oil Companies.....enough to enable the CEO of Exxon-Mobile to recieve a half-billion dollar retirement package....all paid for with your money.

Also, look at the Colorado Savings and Loan scandal. Bush's brother Neil was a the center of it all when Daddy was president. Bush 43 waited approximately two weeks while his son cleaned up the trail before unleashing bank examiners on the place. The result? The loans made to Bush's friends (business associates) were declared in default and they never had to pay them back....your tax dollars did that.

So what's wrong with a glorified Volkswagen?

My C4S gets 30MPG at 80MPH.

My Durango gets 13MPG at 80MPH.

Which should I commute in, Larry?

Hmm--I know there are good, brave and honorable men and women dying for you and this country Ray--Not so phony to me

Murphy

Baloney Murphy. They're dying for a clique of criminal politicians in Washington. This is Washington's war, not America's war.

Bush never supported bailouts of corporations either dumb lying libs. He said he would NOT bailout the airlines or automanufactures when asked. Name one company that Bush supported bailing out you lib liars!!!

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 09:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Lying Libs"??

The facts hurt.

Since when do you believe Bush will do as he says.

Need proof? "Osama Bin Laden; Dead or Alive" followed up by "I don't care where he is" less than a year later. YUP, that Bush....a true man of his word.

Also, in case you missed it, Bush did sign the airline bailout. It's public record and has hardly been a secret.

The airlines recieved BILLIONS in our tax dollars after 911 and not one executive took a paycut. This is hardly he first time the govt has done this.

The 14 billion dollar energy bill three years ago was simply a handout of 14 BILLION dollars to the Oil Companies.....enough to enable the CEO of Exxon-Mobile to recieve a half-billion dollar retirement package....all paid for with your money.

Also, look at the Colorado Savings and Loan scandal. Bush's brother Neil was a the center of it all when Daddy was president. Bush 43 waited approximately two weeks while his son cleaned up the trail before unleashing bank examiners on the place. The result? The loans made to Bush's friends (business associates) were declared in default and they never had to pay them back....your tax dollars did that.

...because their parents, or their parents' parents, or their parents' parents' parents, made smart moves.


Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

So...how many generations should be able to take credit for their ancestors "smart moves"?

The majority of Foreclosures occur by and large in the first two years of buying the home.

There have been several subprime mortgage compaines who have gone belly up--New Century and many others for lending under the variable rate promises.

The insurance CC is referring to is PMI--which will pay the lender the loan if the HO goes BK and there is a foreclosure.

There will be several of those types of companies that go BK as well.

Fannie and Freddie own about 40% of the market and are seeing vast amounts of foreclosures. They started a few years back in areas of the country--due mainly to economic reasons--lost jobs and then no one has a job to by your house so you can move to another state--ie Michigan hit hard like three years ago and NC for closing businesses. OH hit hard. Then the hurricane hit and the LA and the gulf states are seeing thousands of FC's right now. Even the banks are working with folks to stay in the houses.

And Bush didn't bailout the airlines or any other corporations--not even Enron--although that was Clinton's call. The gov't said no way.

Folks make wrong decisions and have to live by them. But to rely on the gov't or some company is not a good thing--because they always let you down.

Murphy

Murphy They are dying for Dubya and His Oil industry buddies NOT You and I. I know that hurts to hear but it is the Truth.

Larry

Murphy-

It's a war alright - people are dying because of it - but Bush's reasons were lies. Their deaths don't make his lies into truth.

The rich are rich because they make smart moves and then can afford $1400 haircuts like Democrat John Edwards. The only way to "bailout" homeowners is for The Fed to lower interest rates and that is NOT a Bush issue. Frankly, they should lower interest rates because they made something like 11 straight rate hikes and went way to far in my opinion.

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 09:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

See how this works....now it's a 1400 dollar haircut. Up one-thousand dollars from last week. That number keeps creeping up. Soon, the rightnuts will have him voting against an extra aircraft carrier in order to pay for his haircuts.

But to rely on the gov't or some company is not a good thing--because they always let you down.

That applies to their management of the economy as well as everything else they do.

Ray calls this a phony war and I disagree--the lives that lost are REAL--not phony!

And the surge is working--but that hurts all you folks who hate Bush and apparently want to see the US lose--so you can spew more hatred at Bush.

Sorry if that hurts Larry.

Bush did not lie--good grief--there was a vote to go the Iraq--by the Congress.

But the Dems will first say the surge working is not enough--the Iraqi gov't isn't doing enough--this is only solved by a polictical process.

Then the Dems will go after Petraus and try to kick the shit out of him--The general they voted on 96-1.

Murphy

Ooooops.

SILVERADO, not Colorado. I'm going there for vacation and seem to have it on the brain......but in my defense, they sound similar......so fuck off.

That covers 1977-1978. Microsoft did not go public until March 13, 1986.

www.microsoft.com

Are you always this full of shit?

Posted by mike_landau


Hey Edison, what year did I say I bought Microsoft?
I didn't.

Are you always that stupid?

Murphy

Did you know that gullible is not in the dictionary?

That applies to their management of the economy as well as everything else they do.

Posted by Ray at 2007-08-09 10:13 PM


Ray--I agree--it is precisely the mismanagement of the gov't and or the company that goes BK--lose your pension --your 401k--your health insurance--that folks cannot rely upon to get through life.

Murphy

I'm going there for vacation and seem to have it on the brain......

Have fun here. I hope you enjoy it.

You can disagree all you want Murph. Reality was never your strength. You have a weakness of believing their bullshit propaganda every time.

And the man who believes in Star Trek is such a noble realist..

Murphy

And the man who believes in Star Trek is such a noble realist..

Murphy

Huh?

Common--I stand corrected--and come to think about it--there was so much money given out after 9/11--it was astounding.

Everyone was feeling pretty sorry--in Congress and the WH.

9/11--not much of an excuse--but better than folks who do not make sound judgments about their own finances--right?

Murphy

If there was going to be a bailout, it should apply to student loans. The law is so tough there that student loans are non-dischargeable in bankrupcy. Meanwhile lenders can apply such draconian efforts such as applying 25% default fees on a balance and then hiking the interest and charging that interest on the balance plus the 25% default fee plus legal fees which can be greater than the original balance a couple times over.

Who do we have to blame for this? None other than President Bill Clinton who signed it into law. Debts through criminal acts and certain tort cases are the only other types of non-dischargeable debt making student loans akin to a bad act. Clinton of course left corporations alone to file bankruptcy at will. If there is a devil in debt, it's Bill NOT Bush!

re:the Microsoft link

I remember a shipmate when I was in the Navy had an Altair 8800 in 1975. Big blue box with a row of red LEDs and toggle switches. I was fascinated watching him program it by throwing the switches (half of them were the data and half the command set) and "entering". This guy also hooked up a TV set we had on board and was able to program a simple ASCCI set that showed up on the TV. He saved his programs on an audio cassette tape he hooked up to the Altair. (my TRS 80, bought in 1979 did the same) I could go on, but it was fascinating.

I tried to look this guy up on the internet a few years ago. Found him -- in an obituary. Died in a motorcycle accident in California. I was very sad.

Anyway, reading the microsoft link and the mention of the Altair 8800, I couldn't help but to think of him. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

Wow! That's Hot Ted!

Forget the Iphone--I want one of those--I wish I could get this table thing in my purse!

Murphy

YEAH!

And to think that just a few short months ago the Fake Plastic Sons of Bitchs were singing bushs praise when talking about home ownership!

As if we didn't remember!

You all need some new tricks!

Hey Edison, what year did I say I bought Microsoft?

Which was followed by:

"Microsoft Company 15 September 1975

Microsoft was incorporated in 1975. So? Unless your name is Bill Gates or Paul Allen you could not have Bought Microsoft with some of the rest which you led anyone to believe when you said:

Sold in 1977 and bought waterfront 1,200 square foot house with a dock on Lake Travis for $15,000 cash. Bought Microsoft with some of the rest.

2nd house: 1978 1% down, 7%, 30 year fixed, $110,000 in Highland Park in Austin.

Between 1977 and 1978 you Bought Microsoft with some of the rest.

Are you always this full of shit?

9/11--not much of an excuse--but better than folks who do not make sound judgments about their own finances--right?

Murphy

Posted by MURPHY at 2007-08-09 10:29 PM | Reply


Yeah give the corporations more money and fuck the poor. Quite typical if You ask Me.

Larry

"Microsoft did not go public until March 13, 1986."

Microsoft Company 15 September 1975
www.thocp.net

Yeah.
So?

Go fuck yourself, asshole.

So what's your point zatoichi? Are you suggesting you bought Microsoft stock in 1975, 1977, 1986, or later? There was no Microsoft stock available to buy until 1986. Obviously Microsoft existed as a quasi-company in 1975. Anyone reading your post above about the houses you have bought and sold would be right to assume you suggest you bought Microsoft stock in 1977, though there was no stock available to be bought in that year. "Going public", as I hope you are aware, means there is stock available to be bought by the general public. That did not happen until 1986. And, if you are suggesting you were hoarding your excess house sale proceeds from 1977 until 1986 (or later), and further remember the excess was spent specifically for Microsoft stock, I have to agree with Mr. Landau. Sure, you may have bought $1000 worth of Microsoft in, let me guess, 1990, but suggesting that was a $1000 specifically from a house sale 13 years earlier is merely an attempt to boost your own (assumed) reputation as a saavy investor.

If you choose to respond to this post, please spare me the juvenile potty talk.

it's Bill NOT Bush!


I think you are half right.

There is a bit of a difference though. If you buy into the fact that you won a lottery you never played or any of the Nigeria scams, tough luck.

However, if a reputable national bank gives you the hard sell, it is easier to fall victim.

----

Principal is still the same. You go into a car dealership unprepared they try to tack on all sorts of cash cow items.

Extended warranties at electronic retailers, etc.

Dateline had a show on about people who fell victim to ID thieves. People where spending their own money shipping items purchased from stolen credit cards to their "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" overseas. They though the items were part of that person's business when they were items purchased with stolen credit cards.

Be prepared by researching and know what you are getting yourself into before you sign anything.

I would rather have my tax dollars go into educating people financially than bailing them out. The former will probably solve the problem while the latter will probably just be a band-aid.

Have fun here. I hope you enjoy it.

Posted by Whatsleft at 2007-08-09 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks.

There are so many scams going right now specifically because of the changes to the bankruptcy laws that prevent those in bankruptcy from discharging student loans. Lots of schools teaching anything from mechanic skills to accounting are taking students money, which comes from student loans the schools conveniently make available, and provide a "limited" amount of education which gives these "students" very little help in the real job world. Most end up in low pay jobs with student loans to pay. VEry little regulation (thank you Republicans) is there to protect student consumers. They have created a laissez faire economy where the Republicans celebrate profit but don't really have any qualms about where it is derived from. Then these same folks go to church on Sunday and think themselves saved. Yeah they're saved alright, saved from their just desserts by a legal system that makes theft a crime but flim flam a celebrated art.
That is just one of the many, many new business models that have sprung up under Republican rule.
Lot's of others. Payday advances, hold your check deals, on and on. It's as if those who have theirs actually get enjoyment out of watching those without struggle. I think they have brought a new meanness to America that I don't think was nearly so prevalent before. Remember when the highest interest rate allowed by law was 18%????
No wonder the rich are getting richer and the rest of us are getting poorer.

9/11--not much of an excuse--but better than folks who do not make sound judgments about their own finances--right?

Murphy

Posted by MURPHY at 2007-08-09 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I agree.

I'm not in favor of a bailout for these people. I just don't like the fact that corporations get them.

I think there should be no bailouts for people when they invest like this, but more importantly, I would make financial education part of every high school students education. I'm not talking about about "how to build your empire" necessarily, but I would educate students about interest and credit and to use both wisely.

Let me further explain my position on corporate welfare:
I'm not in favor of constant corporate bailouts, especially when the company heads make no sacrifices. Instead, the CEO and other officers take no cut in pay and still fly 1st class while pensions are erased and min wage workers are asked to work overtime for no pay.

Now, I am for helping companies (to a certain degree) that are American owned and operated but I would expect that they don't outsource more than 20% of their jobs and that there are HARDCORE cutbacks in the perks, not the employees. If US tax dollars are going to help a company, then the CEO flies coach. No more corporate jets. The CEO doesn't get to make 10 million with a 30 million dollar bonus until the company is financially solvent.

I would make financial education part of every high school students education. I'm not talking about about "how to build your empire" necessarily, but I would educate students about interest and credit and to use both wisely.

----

Completely agree.

If there was going to be a bailout, it should apply to student loans. The law is so tough there that student loans are non-dischargeable in bankrupcy. Meanwhile lenders can apply such draconian efforts such as applying 25% default fees on a balance and then hiking the interest and charging that interest on the balance plus the 25% default fee plus legal fees which can be greater than the original balance a couple times over.

Who do we have to blame for this? None other than President Bill Clinton who signed it into law. Debts through criminal acts and certain tort cases are the only other types of non-dischargeable debt making student loans akin to a bad act. Clinton of course left corporations alone to file bankruptcy at will. If there is a devil in debt, it's Bill NOT Bush!

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

UTA, Todays your lucky day!!

Student Loans are put on hold while on active duty or in a guard unit serving in a combat zone (and the interest stops as well).

So go on, get out there and help your president win the war. Sign up for a 6 year stretch in the Armed Services. Problem solved.

See, I'm like the Wolf. I'm a problem solver.


Jules: "...Are you sending the Wolf?"

Marsellus: "Do you feel better motherfucker?"

Jules: "shit negro! That all you had to say!"

That is just one of the many, many new business models that have sprung up under Republican rule.
Lot's of others. Payday advances, hold your check deals, on and on.

----

Are you really serious with that?

Clinton of course left corporations alone to file bankruptcy at will. If there is a devil in debt, it's Bill NOT Bush!

Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who was it that signed the bill making individual bankruptcies MUCH more difficult?

Here's a hint: It was Bush.

Bush is right. Why should there be a homeowner bailout?!!! This is not the government's obligation. If you took out a subprime loan, you knew the risk and the overwhelming majority of people who bought a home in the last few years made money a lot of it in most cases. If the gov't bails out homeowners, what's next? Car loans and credit cards? Get serious! It is not the government's obligation to bail out people for being financially irresponsible. Want a bailout, file bankruptcy!

Bush never supported bailouts of corporations either dumb lying libs. He said he would NOT bailout the airlines or automanufactures when asked. Name one company that Bush supported bailing out you lib liars!!!

Posted by utastaff

yeah why help people that spend money in the US economy while bush and his ass licking supporters cheer on the corporations sending jobs over seas.

Why should we expect a bailout now? He cant even bail his own ass out much less NO, Iraq or anything else he has touched and turned to radioactive dogshit..why should we trust him with a bailout of the american people.

The only help the banking industry needs is from the fed but bernanke is asleep at the switch.. It will be the next great depression before he steps in..

The ones here saying fuck fellow americans..well thats the same attitude the african dictators and warlords have against their own people. It always turns out well for them too doesn't it.. NOT

good.

i do not want to pay for the stupidity of couples with a combined credit score of 600!

why should MY tax dollars go for that when we're trying to buy our own home?

plus, we have a vacation cabin and two teens to put through university for crying out loud.

people need to learn to find a way on their own merit, not the charity banks are willing to throw at them.

people need to learn to find a way on their own merit, not the charity banks are willing to throw at them.

Posted by nanc at 2007-08-10 12:13 AM

So, you are OK with money going to Iraq? Because that $10 billion per month could pay a lot of college scholarships.

This is hilarious, watching the DR liberals demand a bailout for investment banks and deceitful mortgage companies. THOSE are the ones who are being hurt most of all by these losses in the subprime market.

Already dozens--maybe even hundreds now--of subprime mortgage lenders have gone out of business, which is good. But it probably isn't the role of the Congress or president to decide what to do now with the two million or so mortgages scheduled to reset at higher rates over the next 24 months. That's more properly a role of the Federal Reserve. What they could do is re-open the discount window so that the rates would be locked in at a more advantageous level, but the problem--as usual--is that most of these borrowers were non-creditworthy in the first place. That is, after all, the definition of "subprime".

Hard to know the answer. But just know that a "homeowner bailout" is really nothing of the kind--a homeowner can walk away from a mortgage, rent a cheaper place until he's on his feet again, and re-apply for another mortgage in 3 years or so, and lenders will usually forgive the previous foreclosure. That's what I did. But a homeowner's bailout is merely a way to keep families in homes they can't really afford, just so Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, Lehman, and billion-dollar hedge funds can delay the inevitable writedowns that are coming.

This is how the market works, and it sucks sometimes. But companies that build $350,000 homes for a family making $45,000, and team up with mortgage companies that offer a two-year "teaser" rate just to win one-time mortgage business and a fat commission, will go out of business. And the buyers will have to find another place to live that is more in line with their income, which is what should have happened in the first place.

"(...mortgage companies) are the ones who are being hurt most of all by these losses in the subprime market. Already dozens--maybe even hundreds now--of subprime mortgage lenders have gone out of business."

Whereas tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, were duped into these things, as the lenders knew all along a 45K income shouldn't be in a 350K house and they'd eventually forclose and collect the remaining value. And after the dust settles, where's the money? In the hands of the mortgage holders who now get all equity, even the down payments and payments of principle to date.

"Hard to know the answer"

No it's not, really. Vultures take advantage of the weak. You can't tell me any of these 350/45 deals were made where the loaners weren't licking their chops at foreclosure. And spare me the woes of forclosures for the owner, the bottom line is just that: whatever monies had been saved and put toward the house, whatever principle had been accrued through monthly payments, now belong to the bank. Bank 100%, Human 0%.

"a homeowner can walk away from a mortgage, rent a cheaper place until he's on his feet again, and re-apply for another mortgage in 3 years or so, and lenders will usually forgive the previous foreclosure."

Awww, how sweet. And if the folks have survived, the bankers will salivate enough to sell them another $350K house...right?

And after the dust settles, where's the money? In the hands of the mortgage holders who now get all equity, even the down payments and payments of principle to date.
* * * *

Um, no. The only ones who got paid were the people who sold them their home--the developer or the previous homeowner. There IS no equity in these homes--that's the problem for the homeowners and the holders of the mortgages, which is why it's such a big problem. The mortgages were with no money down, or with a minimum down payment in an area that has since seen falling prices. Which means that upon foreclosure, the holders of the CDO's can expect only 50-75 cents on the dollar.

If there were equity in the homes, all they would have to do is put them up for sale, pay off the mortgage, and everyone's happy. But with I/O loans and these zero-down ARM instruments, everyone just assumed that incomes would go way up, and housing values along with them. Both those trains went off the track, and here we are, with investment banks and accredited investors hoping Congress sends a few billion their way to bail them out.

And btw--down payments don't go to the mortgage company. They go to the seller of the property. It's part of the sales price.

This is hilarious, watching the DR liberals demand a bailout for investment banks and deceitful mortgage companies. THOSE are the ones who are being hurt most of all by these losses in the subprime market.

Posted by rightisright at 2007-08-10 01:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

RIR,

Who "demanded" a bailout here? Can you point me to a single post that "demands" a bailout??

Of course you can't. Most DR progressives simply wonder why there isn't all this same screaming from the DR rightists when it comes to bailouts for corporations?

Why is that? Why yell and scream that people need to make it on their own and then praise Bush when it comes to handing out so much more money to companies that are already turning a profit?

Care to explain??

"Care to explain??"

Care to explain why you made outrageous claims "that could be proved" about crime going up under Bush? Care to explain why you abandoned that thread when I posted data that proved you wrong? Care to explain why you boldly claimed that no one ever blamed Bush for Katrina but after I posted a link proving you wrong you abandoned that thread too?

Bush is right on this one.

Even if the federal budget was nicely balanced, unlike now, a Fed buyout of bad loans would pretty much cripple the economy. Then there would be all of the administrative overhead to determine the real pricing of the property at home purchase, blah, blah, blah.

Bush was a slutty little cheerleader on the housing boom sidelines so he isn't innocent of the housing situation but just because he is an asshole doesn't mean the whole country should pay for the stupidity of some dumb greedy shits who can't work a simple spreadsheet.

Buyer beware.

"You can't tell me any of these 350/45 deals were made where the loaners weren't licking their chops at foreclosure. "

I call bullshit.

Banks hate foreclosure. They almost always lose money on every one. By varying state laws they basically have to sell the property around a month after the final foreclosure notice. This is why people jump at the chance for foreclosure sales. There is no cleaning or "staging" of the property. Generally the forclosure is turned over to a third party to manage since the bank doesn't want to get tied up in the proceedings.

Finally it is the mortgage lenders business to get interest paid on a regular basis. They package these mortgages into bonds and sell them bank to the public as debt.

LENDERS NEVER WANT FORECLOSURE.

Danforth go and take a course in debt financing.

There should be no bailout on this issue for individuals or for the mortgage industry. The market created this mess, let the market fix it.

What I expect to happen is that as the financial viability of more and more mortgage companies is threatned, rather than foreclose on a house that they won't be able to sell, they will find some way of allowing home owners to refinance the mortgage on more favorable terms.

Also, I don't believe that Fannie Mae should buy up these troubled mortgages because that would threaten its viability as well and would, in essence, be a bailout of the mortgage industry.

"LENDERS NEVER WANT FORECLOSURE."


They may say they don't want it, but the certainly will not lift a finger if one of their customers needs some kind of relief.

Ted,

You kidding? They will work in all kinds of ways to refinance and keep foreclosure from happening. It's against their business model to have foreclosures. That mortgage has already been securitized and sold as a bond by the time foreclosure is pending. The last thing the bank wants to do is have to deal with is the results of foreclosure. If enough mortgages fail then the bank may default on the bond interest payments. Then it comes out of their pocket. This gets bad enough then the bank declares bancruptcy since banks don't have nearly enough capital to cover the mortgages. Hence why they sell the mortgages as bonds.

Danni, if you are not where you want to be financially, then get off your rear end and do something about it. You obviously are infected with class envy.

Lucky for me, I think by 2008 it will be a great time to begin buying some of those foreclosures. I'm looking forward to making lots of money.

Oh no!!!!

We will not bailout homeowners however if the airline, oil, pharmacutical industries were in trouble, you can bet your tax dollars would go towards their bailout.

I don't understand why people continue to vote against their interest. We are screwed.

No bail-outs for corporations?
So the 25 billion released yesterday by the fed to "float" market liquidity, what was that?
A bail-out for corporations. And they took their profit off the top to begin with, before the profits could actually exist.
We wont even talk about the 130 billion released by the ecb, before the market opened.
Why?
None of these corporations actually have money, to cover their liabilities.
All the while, the Chinese are sitting in the shadows, laughing their asses off.

Has he bailed out corporate America before? I don't remember one, but I could be wrong. If he has, I agree that his refusal to help bailout the American homeowner is hypocritical.

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-09 08:57 PM | Reply

You forget about the billions given to the airline CEO's after 9/11?

I mean being a righty you should have 9/11 on your mind every single second.

can afford $1400 haircuts like Democrat John Edwards.


Posted by utastaff at 2007-08-09 09:14 PM | Reply | Fla

By the time November 2008 rolls around the haircut price will be $1,000,000,000.

Holy shit you guys every get tired of being wrong?

They may say they don't want it, but the certainly will not lift a finger if one of their customers needs some kind of relief.

Posted by TedBaxter at 2007-08-10 06:17 AM | Reply

Oh, I can think of ONE finger they will lift.

Chris, thanks for that clip of Jim Cramer. I think he is expressing what many people think and fear while all the same folks who have been denying there is even a big problem for the last couple years just pretend all is well. Things aren't well, things are getting scary and the lunatic in chief heads off on vacation. I totally agree with Cramer, an interest rate reduction right now is what is needed.

""You obviously are infected with class envy.""

Class envy my ass. I'm doing fine asshole. I just happen to care about my kids generation and my friends who are in financial difficulty and yes, I do resent the assholes (vultures) who have the resources available to take advantage of other people's financial catastrophes. In other eras we called them carpetbaggers.

Bush NEVER helps AMERICANS - I DEFY ANYONE to prove just ONE BUSH Bill that was NOT fully intended to ONLY help the Wealthiest 2% of Americans!!

The previous OUSTED Congress GOP Rubber Stampers passed LAWS to HELP CREDITORS and LOAN PREDITORS - Then DUMBYA turns his back on FAMILIES and AMERICANS - as ALWAYS - the NEOCON MANTRA - PROFITS over PEOPLE!!!!!

NEOCONS believe AMERICANS get NOTHING and only DESERVE American TAX Dollars if you are in IRAQ and are FUNDING HALLIBURTON's MASS PROFITS and THEFT SCAMS!??

HISTORY WILL PROVE: WORST and BIGGEST CROOKS and MOST CORRUPT in US HISTORY- BAR NONE!!

I'm doing fine asshole. I just happen to care about my kids generation and my friends who are in financial difficulty and yes, I do resent the assholes (vultures) who have the resources available to take advantage of other people's financial catastrophes. In other eras we called them carpetbaggers.

Posted by danni at 2007-08-10 08:36 AM

In other words, your friends are not financially responsible enough to live within their means. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in such a mess. If I have the ability to succeed, so does everyone else.

Danni, apparently your class envy is evident to everyone but you. Thanks for the nice words.

Danni, why do you resent the wealthy?

Flashing on my computer screen..... Get a 200k mortgage for 739 a month....

Sounds good. I'll take 2, they're small.

I don't feel any empathy for anyone who thinks its a good deal, not the lender nor the borrower.

Someone said a fool and his money are soon parted and someone else said a fool and his money are soon partying. Both seem to fit.

In this case let em both wallow in their greed.

"I'm looking forward to making lots of money."

You know, I sort of doubt your claim to be so successful. Anyone with half a brain would realize that they are losing money every day on any real estate they own at this moment and that it is unlikely that prices will be spiraling upwards again by 2008. Did you bother to check out Chris's link to Jim Cramer??? He ain't a happy camper.
I think he knows far more than you will ever know about financial matters. So, I just doubt that you really have a clue about any of this stuff.
If you did you would realize that it is no time for celebrating right now nor for taking pleasure in the foreclosures of family's homes, only a real asshole would do that.

Danni, foreclosures allow savy people to buy real estate property at prices that are below market value. Next, you wait for the market to turn around, then sell for a nice profit. It's really that simple.

Call me what you want, but it's not my fault that other people are financially irresponsible.

It's really that simple.

Oh, you are such a genius. I would never have thought of that.
If it indeed does turn around. Very likely that the lower prices are going to be with us for a while. Here in S. Florida overbuilding will prevent a return to the fast buck artist's profits.
I think our economy is on the verge of some serious readjustment and getting stuck with some foreclosure property right now might not be a great idea unless you can afford to hold onto it for quite a while.

""Danni, foreclosures allow savy people""

So what are you talking about it for???

""Danni, foreclosures allow savy people""

Repulican4Ever,

You don't know a thing about forclosuresales I suspect. Most foreclosures I think are the second or third rate properties in a market. Anything prime can be sold even in a down market. What can you do with garbage in a 10 year down cycle?

Maybe you just have the instincts of a trash picker?

Maybe you just have the instincts of a trash picker?

Posted by furio at 2007-08-10 10:48 AM

Furio, as they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. It all depends on three things: location, location, location.

Rebu4Ever,

Thanks for just confirming you were talking out your ass about having knowledge of foreclosures and how to make money on them.

This whole thing is simple. People (sadly) got in over their heads. If your family makes 60k a year you cant afford a 300K house, period. I dont care how great of a loan program you recieved. Some gambled and lost thinking the home market would continue to increase and they could get out of the crappy variable loan before the rate change. The crux of the issue is education. We need to educate our youth on proper fiscal responsibilty. We need to do it in school b/c obviously many parents have no clue. Rather than teach the latest "Social Issue" lets teach economics, finance, and business skills. You know practical stuff.

I place blame equally on the banks for lending outragous amounts of money to high risk people and the indeviduals for accepting the loans. (Interest ONLY...ARE YOU NUTS) It used to be one could only get a mortgage that totalled twice one's income. So 60k a year income = 120k morgage. If you want a 180k home you need to have 60k to put down. Moving away from this fiscal sense resulted in the out of wack home prices we have now in many parts of the country. We needed an adjustment, home prices are WAY overvalued in many markets and not in step with income.

Danni - there is always money to be made in a down market. There are some great deals to be had on forclosures, especially if your looking for a home to live in and not a flip opportunity. Location is key as always.

Its still a great time to buy a home. I just got 5.5% fixed 30 years on my home (20% down), I know im old fashioned. I was also able to negotiate 30k off the asking price b/c the market sucks for sellers. I am 30 years old and this is my first home - I saved up for the down payment. I plan on paying twice my morgage every month to pay it of in 10-12yrs years. Of course I could have bought a house for twice the money and struggled to make the required payment, but Im not going to fall into the trap. If something bad happens and I cant make my self-impossed double payment...oh well I can always make my required payment. In 12 years my house should (knock in wood) be paid off and I can invest the money I would have spent on my mortage and prepare myselef for fiscal idependence and not need the goverment for anything...not that I ever have. (roads, police, fire, etc aside...you get my point)

People need to be held accountable for their actions. Its not my respnsibilty to help you b/c you made bad investment decisons. Who is going to help me if I lose money on bad stock performance?

""especially if your looking for a home to live in and not a flip opportunity.""

Just like I said, be prepared to hold onto the property for a while because it isn't going to be the quick flip like a year or so ago.
I know folks here in Ft. Lauderdale who bought a few properties and now can't sell so they are trying to rent them....rents are falling too.
Too many properties available.

To my knowledge once a foreclosure is sold by the lender any proceeds above the amount owed by the borrower must be transfered to the borrower.

So what happens many times in this instance is that since the borrower didn't take the initative to sell the property at a price that would have allowed him/her to pay off the debt (even though they may have lost money) the lender doesn't take the initative look after the borrower either.

There's a whole host of reasons people experience foreclosures but I think most of the time it's because people tend to live beyond their means and lenders (paid commissions on loans) tend to allow them. They are the rule not the exception.

If people learned some restraint and to save to put something down rather than sign on the line with nothing down, things might go a little better for them... both they and the lenders.

You can get a new Dodge with no money down, limited lifetime powertrain warranty and some cash to boot.
Hurry, hurry get your Dodge now, nothing Down and nothing to lose with some cash to spend on things you really don't need either.

I have no empathy or sympathy for either the borrower nor the lender. When two fools meet folly follows.

"Lucky for me, I think by 2008 it will be a great time to begin buying some of those foreclosures. I'm looking forward to making lots of money.

Posted by Republican4ever at 2007-08-10 07:31 AM"

Hey, even fry cooks can have dreams, right?

Sorry about your economy. It's truly heading south and your president wants to eat popcorn and watch. Still, it'll be nice when you guys default on all those loans and your property values tank. That'll be good for me when I'm ready to buy a place in Hawaii.

just got 5.5% fixed 30 years on my home (20% down), I know im old fashioned. I was also able to negotiate 30k off the asking price b/c the market sucks for sellers. I am 30 years old and this is my first home - I saved up for the down payment. I plan on paying twice my morgage every month to pay it of in 10-12yrs years.

Posted by captainOface at 2007-08-10 12:12 PM

You may want to talk to a financial planner about this. It may not be in your best interest to pay off your mortgage as quickly as possible.

1) You can deduct your mortgage from your taxes.
2) At 5.5%, you can probably earn more (over 10 years) by dumping the extra money into a money market account or a good managed stock portfolio.

Of course, you might want to consider investing in foriegn stocks...just in case the Chinese decide they want their money back.

You can deduct your mortgage from your taxes.

You're talking interest, aren't you, not principal?

You may want to talk to a financial planner about this. It may not be in your best interest to pay off your mortgage as quickly as possible.

1) You can deduct your mortgage from your taxes.
2) At 5.5%, you can probably earn more (over 10 years) by dumping the extra money into a money market account or a good managed stock portfolio.

Of course, you might want to consider investing in foriegn stocks...just in case the Chinese decide they want their money back.

Posted by eric1111 at 2007-08-10 12:34 PM |

Debt free is always the place to be. Don't let anyone shit you.

Anyone with half a brain would realize that they are losing money every day on any real estate they own at this moment and that it is unlikely that prices will be spiraling upwards again by 2008.

----

I'm not. But my small midwest town never saw any bubble to begin with.

Eric1111, maybe...I think the interest only loan folks used this logic. Really - I can deduct my "mortgage"...news to me, maybe you ment interest.

- I want the security, if something happens...I have a home to live in. I will be prepared for anything.
- I invest 30% if our household income and save a save a good deal, Ill be fine, I have a balanced portfolio. In ten years I can invest/save even more.
- My living expenses are a small % of my budget
- I prefer to live debt free.
- I will save a few hundred thousand dollars in interest.
- I dont want to be 60 and still paying off a mortgage.

My way is conservative but it works. I want to build wealth for my life and my future generations.

No bubble in western PA either

Having debt isn't bad except if that's all you have and its shit debt to buy a shitty asset to boot. You shouldn't have more dept than equity IMHO. Shit I wouldn't take on a debt ratio of more than 50%. And you need liquid reserves as well. Cash flow, cash flow, cash flow. Too many bschool fags during .com crash didn't learn this either.

As is often said and the only intelligent comment from Repub4 is "Location, location, location". If you can't afford to buy in a good location, don't buy at all. You will definitely lose money in the long term on a shitty investment with cost of inflation, tax, interest, insurance, cost of upkeep ,etc. Who cares if your property does the national average appreciation over LT of 3%? Big deal. That's crap. Rent. Want tax free saving? Buy municipal bonds with what's left over, no tax on interest. If you want more aggresive then always invest for LT CapG only 15% tax rate.

Buy a house on a shitty mortgage? Your just throwing your money away to the bank, local gov and guys with plumbers crack.

And yes I do have property but fully owned in desirable locations and have never taken out a mortgage. Cash is King! If you ain't got the cash rent. Nothing wrong with that.

"My way is conservative but it works. I want to build wealth for my life and my future generations"

Me too. How do you keep your living expenses so low? My mortgage payment is less than rent, I can right off the interest, but I have debt. How do you do it without debt?

BushCo and NeoCons claim to tout "Reponsibility of the Individual" - when convenient to make profit or benefit the Wealthiest

Unless, of course, it is a $Trillion INVASION mission which kills 100's of thousands of Women and Kids all to profit Halliburton and Bush Defense contractor Pals.

ONLY THEN the reason is: "The Govt needs to Protect You" ...from never-involved-in-9/11 and never-a-threat-to-America IRAQIs

IF THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE in RESPONSIBILITY of the INDIVIDUAL and NOT THE GOVT - GIVE US A $TRILLION Dollar Refund wasted in IRAQ and will DEFEND OURSELVES against "IRAQI" invaders and "Terrorists"

Anyone who BUYS the BUSHIT must also believe OJ after THAT mountain of Criminal Evidence too!

Maybe OJ and BUSH will take y'all to the Country Club sometime to look for the "killers" and "terrorists" there.
Hard to Golf when they are laughin' so hard tho...

You can bet the shareholders of the loan underwriting corporations will be bailed out. Americans have a short memory -- remember the Savings & Loan bailout of the Bush 41's term? Resolution Trust Corporation, 200 billion dollar bailout (off budget -- doesn't count against the deficit, a favorite gimmick if the Shrub family).

In that crisis in the eighties, it was bad loans for shopping centers in a deficit-inflated economy. When the crash came, I remember reading in 1990 that there was enough retail space for the next 10 years.

Homeowners, you get nothing. Lenders: the check is a-coming.

Dirty you really have no clue do you.

Why should the government and my tax dollars bail out an individual who can't pay his or her bills because the y got overextended and didn't make good decisions financially..

The reason corporations are alloted bailouts is simple. The airline industry employe 10's of thousands of americans. Believe me the money does not just go to the CEO's. THink of teh impact 1million americans losing their jobs would have on the economy. Especially when the events that caused their loss were not of their own doing.

Individuals in this country need to take personal responsibility and stop looking for handouts.

Businesses need to do the same; however, there is a lot more to lose with industry.... Sad that you libs can't see the bigger picture..

Looneytarian,
We paid off our cars. My only debt right now is the house. We had debt but it was not out of control, really just the cars and her student loans..I dint have any student loans..that helps. My parents prepared for me to go to college and set me up for success. I know everyone is not so lucky. Student loans are killers.

The cars were the big thing. It was harder before. We (my fiance and myself) are making more money than before. Obviously that helps, you dont really have to sacrifice as much. Cars are a waste of money..period. We bought a house that we could afford with one of us working (just in case and for when the kids are born) We dont have kids...yet, its just us...that helps. We paid her school loans off. We are lucky we are healthy and dont have any medical bills. But we are preparing in-case something happens...I wont need help from the goverment. Life is good right now.

We dont waste money. We take our lunch to work. We dont buy needless things like plazma tvs. We have fun but we dont spend foolishly. My friends have fancier cars and spend money on expensive watches and coach purses. We dont. We buy stuff, but we have a budget. We use cash. Pay off credit card bills monthly. We shop wisely, look for bargains. We need a computer or something expensive...we save and then buy, not credit and then pay.

I used to be horrible with money...I wasted it every way possible. Its tough once you get off track its easy to spiral out of control.

To answer your question simply: Smaller house, cheaper cars, pay off loans.

Fed just sent the first instalment to lenders.

The Fed said Friday it would accept $19 billion and then $16 billion in mortgage backed securities. The move came after the fed funds rate, the rate banks charge each other for overnight loans, ticked above 6 percent again Friday -- well above the Fed's target of 5.25 percent and a sign that credit was becoming harder to obtain.

Homeowners can go screw themselves but the lenders as always are safe.

I used to be horrible with money...I wasted it every way possible. Its tough once you get off track its easy to spiral out of control.

Too true Capt.

I manged to get things back under control last year after an extended spiral. Now with inflation things are begining to spiral again. I looked at a montly budget and I am spending 1000 bucks every month just on food and gas, and no it's not caviar it's a family of 5.

"Why should the government and my tax dollars bail out an individual who can't pay his or her bills because the y got overextended and didn't make good decisions financially.."

This is the whole reason for social securitah, welfare, and even the proposed national health care. Support for those who fail in life. Doesn't matter the reason. remember?

"Individuals in this country need to take personal responsibility and stop looking for handouts."

Never happen. Why should anyone stop looking for handouts when they're given so freely? I know several people who do not get jobs because they are content with the handout. I even have a neighbor that TRIES to get pregnant every year so she can continue to get, or get more, welfare.

Welfare has enslaved more people than the whip ever did.

"Individuals in this country need to take personal responsibility and stop looking for handouts."

I agree but who is going to teach them. We are in the third generation of the welfare society, public schools teach it parents grew up with it. Where is the leson going to come from.

There are good people out there who simply have been trained for their entire life to count on the government to help them. Your "Individuals in this country need to take personal responsibility and stop looking for handouts." is about as effective as "Just say No" was.

Loony, Captain, agreed, welfare is a good program in theory; however, there will always be those that take advantage of the system and exploit it... Its sad because there are those out there that can truly benefit from the program...

Dow 13,145.33 -125.35
Nasdaq 2,531.28 -25.21
S&P 1,441.69 -11.40
10-Yr Note 99.81
Yield: unch
4.770%


Looks like the feds actions did not do enough.

Ray where are you I think the melt down of the fiat dollar is on us.

Captain of Ace,

Awesome. I'm in the same place right now. Cars paid off. no credit cards. Just the mortgage. I didn't have any help from Mom and Dad, but I did ok. I am setting up my kids for success, though. I wish I had their savings now ;)

Tao,

We too spend close to that for Gas and food... If not more.

I have found some good tricks if your employer will support it.

- set up an account just for Mortgage payments. This looks and feels just like a tax taken from your paycheck. After a while you forget about it. The payments are made automatically.
- I also found a way to make it so your kids pay NO SOCIAL SECURITY. Well, they do, but since I finance it as a gift to them, any SS taxes up to $10,000 are covered. Viola! kids pay no SS, but still get it when its time. I finance this with the social security I get. I hate leaving my kids with other peoples debts.

Oh on loan companies, you know your mortage company is in trouble when they call you on the second to ask why they have not received payment on your loan yet.

If I let it go to the 15th I get a 30 day late on my credit report (huh 30 day late on the 15th of the month it is due what?)

Nope don't help the homeowners but feel free to give those vultures a bailout.

"Welfare has enslaved more people than the whip ever did."

Only the Slaves produce more than Welfare recipients. they produce nothing... well, maybe many children.

"That's a joke. Bush's friends don't need bailing out. They are well taken care of. Goldman Sachs and Haliburton to name two.

Posted by Ray"

You don't have a clue what you're talking about...

Have you seen Goldmans stock price lately... there is NO talk of bailing these companies out.

PLUS... if you actually listed to, read a transcript of, or knew ANYTHING about this, you'd know that the gov't, in fact, supports restructuring of mortgages. Just can't do it when you need to borrow more than your house is worth.

Now, please tell me how BUSH made that part happen.

While your defending them Prob the fed just dumped another 3 bil on the market on top of the 35 bil they did earlier today.

I wasn't defending them...

and the FED is doing it's job, which is NOT to bail our bad mortgages... they added liquidity to be certain that the market can function.

A good deal of the markets current problems stem from liquidity issues... NOT fundamental economic issues.

The Fed's injection of capital is not meant to reverse declines.. but to have the market reflect what it supposed to reflect, NOT the inability to "transact".

Though I know that's what you meant, tao...

Since you're clear on the difference between changing the fed fund rate.. the discount rate, or adding capital.

"Homeowners can go screw themselves but the lenders as always are safe.

Posted by TaoWarrior"

Lenders are always safe....?? Check out American Home Mortgage, or Countryside's stock price... no one is bailing out the sub-prime mortgage lenders

Seems to me there were a number of bush supporters on this thread who were certain the housing industry was on solid ground just one year ago...hell sounds like there are some here who still think that....

I guess relative to your situation it still is ... that is unless you find yourself having to sell into this market for the forseeable future....


The middle income group is the first to feel the heat in this sub prime melt down...(bear sterns and the three french investment firms will not be the last to have ......"issues") their pain will spread to some of the upper middle (if not upper) income group before it gets better.

They are maxed out on their lines of credit...their mortage payments are rising along with their fixed costs of living....

If you think the middle class is irrelevant to the economic well being of this country your either a fool or very well invested in guarenteed securites and precious metals (since 2003 at least). It will be interesting to see what happens to metals if the world wide economy is engulfed in this mortgage meltdown..

We will be very lucky if the next recession stops at a recession....and mr. bush will be lucky to get out before it hits. Of course,,, if he does it will be the Democrats "fault".... hell if he does not he will probably blame it on bill clinton....lol.

The smart money has already moved to treasuries and short positions vs. the dow industrial (somewhere around 14000)... the last fools and the short term players are the ones moving the market lately....very interesting times indeed.

Their cars are "6 and 10 years old".

Now there's a hardship.

"I was given these general statistics on U.S. circulation of dollars, and I was wondering if they were somewhat accurate?

$2 trln was put in circulation from 1776 through 1990
$2 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 1991 through 2000 (for a total of $4 trln)
$2 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 2001 through 2003 (for a total of $6 trln)
$2 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 2004 through 2005 (for a total of $8 trln)
$2.8 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 2006 through 1st half 2007 (for a total of $10.8+- trln)

So, essentially, in the last six and a half years, circulation of U.S. Dollars has increased by 170% (10.8 minus 4.0 = 6.8 trln dollars added to the system). And what do people say about free money?

Yes, but it is not really "money". The stats you quote are "debt".
There is no "money" any more.
The actual money used to be backed by gold.
Actual money stock is 0.001% of what people call the money supply.
The money supply is really the debt supply."

Their cars are "6 and 10 years old".

I wish I had that "problem" with my car.

#1. Those who could NOT afford to purchase a home at existing interest rates were loaned the money to purchase on a sliding scale. Called an ARM or in other words an Adjustable Rate Mortgage. These people agreed and signed the loan requirement paper work AGREEING TO pay the debt.

#2. Their house appreciated greatly during the housing boom and so they went out and got a HOME EQUITY LOAN against the increased equity. (They could not qualify for the first loan and now they get a Home Equity loan based entirely on the increase in equity.

#3. With the monies from the Home Equity Loans they purchased brand new cars and furniture and boats and continued to over extend their debt load.

#4. The TRUE value of the home then began to decline due to too many homes on the market. Simple economics here.

#5. The ARM reached term and the banks are now increasing the interest on the ARM as well as on the Home Equity loans. Banks and brokers now want their money, money the borrowers agreed to repay by the way.

#6. The consumer found out all of a sudden they could NOT pay back the loans on the home, the new car, the new computer and the new refrigerator. So, the consumer defaulted.

#7. Now those who loaned the monies to those consumers who could not pay in the first place, (Sub Prime) begin to carry the losses on their books.

#8. Panic sets in because now many persons are having to move to a reasonable place and let the bank have their home back. But, this is patently unfair you see. Unfair because it is not right to expect them to repay for something they purchased on credit and promised to pay for BUT, you see, somebody owes me.

Oh well, this is NOT over yet and when it shakes out the home prices will reflect the TRUE value of the home and we start over again more reasonable. Those who took the gamble and lost now know the truth about gambling with money they do not have and we are all better off.

Something to consider:

"I was given these general statistics on U.S. circulation of dollars, and I was wondering if they were somewhat accurate?

"$2 trln was put in circulation from 1776 through 1990
$2 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 1991 through 2000 (for a total of $4 trln)
$2 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 2001 through 2003 (for a total of $6 trln)
$2 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 2004 through 2005 (for a total of $8 trln)
$2.8 trln more was added and was put in circulation from 2006 through 1st half 2007 (for a total of $10.8+- trln)

"So, essentially, in the last six and a half years, circulation of U.S. Dollars has increased by 170% (10.8 minus 4.0 = 6.8 trln dollars added to the system). And what do people say about free money?

"What do you think?

"Yes, but it is not really "money". The stats you quote are "debt".
There is no "money" any more.
The actual money used to be backed by gold.
Actual money stock is 0.001% of what people call the money supply.
The money supply is really the debt supply."

The money supply is really the DEBT and that is essentially correct. We are a debtor nation. We all carry debt or most of us that is. Credit card debt, home mortgage debt, auto debt, furniture, appliances, you name it, this nation has charged it to the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars.

Our economy is based on the GOOD FAITH of those who PROMISE TO REPAY THE DEBTS THEY OWE. Basically that is what the economy is.

The actual stock of money is really quite low as you suggested.

A good course in Economics should be required before anybody can post here and spout such nonsense as I have seen in many of the above posts. It is really simple.

I am looking for somebody to bail me out of some bad investment decisions I also made. Know anybody who is that stupid???

"We all carry debt or most of us that is."

I have never had any debt.
My kids are collge grads with no debt and money in the bank.

"who is that stupid???"

Posted by farmerjohn


Good question.
Probably a dittohead.

collge = college

"Care to explain??"

Care to explain why you made outrageous claims "that could be proved" about crime going up under Bush? Care to explain why you abandoned that thread when I posted data that proved you wrong? Care to explain why you boldly claimed that no one ever blamed Bush for Katrina but after I posted a link proving you wrong you abandoned that thread too?

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-10 03:57 AM | Reply | Flag:


???

GoatShit,

Look at my 10:29pm post from yesterday, then go fuck yourself.

How's that explanation?

When someone takes out a VA loan, the government GUARANTEES the lender that there will be no loss in the event of foreclosure. The FHA, on the other hand, INSURES the lender against loss and the homeowner pays an insurance premium included in the payment. Conventional loans of more than 80% of the value of the home include PMI (Private Mortgage Insurance) and the insurance premium is included in the payment.
Here's how foreclosure is SUPPOSED to work. If the buyer defaults, the lender begins foreclosure and sells the property at auction. If there is not enough from the sale of the property to cover the debt, the lender then seeks a deficiency judgment which allows the lender to go after the buyer's personal property. If there is still a deficiency after the judgment is enforced, the lender may THEN go to the government or private insurer to cover the loss.
HOWEVER, here's what's happening. The government is taking title to the property for VA and FHA loans and paying off the loan to the lender. That's the source of these "government owned properties" sales you see advertised. The government then turns the properties over to a "manager," usually a real estate company, and attempts to sell them, sometimes at a big loss. I would remind you that the "loss" is OURS, the taxpayers. I don't know where the government ever got the notion to go into the real estate business. I've looked but I can't find it in the Constitution. I don't know of but one or two cases where the government ever tried to recover any money from defaulting buyers. We are the only ones who are getting the shaft.
Lenders are getting their bad loans covered and the buyers are getting away without penalty other than losing the house which they probably lived in the last four or five months without making any payments.
This is NOT new...it's been going on for decades. It really bothers me that some folks want the government to take over the entire health care system for the U.S. too. I need to look to see if I can find that in the Constitution. I can't wait! I mean, after all, they're doing such a superb job in the real estate business.

"I am looking for somebody to bail me out of some bad investment decisions I also made. Know anybody who is that stupid???"
Posted by farmerjohn

Well for one, the United States of America, who underwrites bad investment decisions all the time---at least in the stock market---to the tune of $3,000/year, with any further losses to be written off in the future.

WHY is it only OK for the "GOVT to take care of US" when it comes to "protecting me from IRAQIS who never were involved in 9/11 and never a Threat"..???

Because it allows HELLIBurton to SCAM $TRILLIONS in PROFIT!??

You RepubTards are such FLIP FLOPPERS!

You believe that GOVT should NOT take care of AMERICANS ; but OK if there are $Trillions to be scammed by the GOVT??

LISTEN CLEARLY: WE CAN DEFEND OURSELVES against "IRAQI Invaders" (never happended or going to happen) and "Terrorists" as proven by Local Police in London!!
LAWSUIT and GIVE us the $Trillion back from HelliBurton!

WE CANNOT Protect Ourselves from GOVT that is breaking Laws, Assaulting the Constitution, Rewarding Credit Preditors and are the ENEMY from WITHIN!!!

Calm down son.
Stop screaming.
You'll hurt your throat.
It's not worth it.

Here, take this ...
(Passes enormous BC bud roofer.)

Well, actually We can protect ourselves from the Govt.

That is why the GOP rubber stampers were OUSTED in November and remaining RepubliTards in Nov 2008.

By then, Too much damage could be done to Recover?
Will the War Mongers force us into more Wars-of-Profit?

THANK GOD for the CLINTONS - Deliver us from EVIL!

Praise the LORD and PRAY!

"I call bullshit. Banks hate foreclosure. They almost always lose money on every one."

But they've already collected all those up-front fees, right? Are you counting those monies in your claim of loss?

"WHY is it only OK for the "GOVT to take care of US" when it comes to "protecting me from IRAQIS..."

Because the Constitution calls for the federal government to provide for the national defense. It DOES NOT call for the government to bail you out of every mess you end up making, or to buy you a house, or to pay for your medical expense, or to run a school system, or......

Then you'd be in favor of not making federally insured home loans available to war vets, right?

"Then you'd be in favor of not making federally insured home loans available to war vets, right?"

Actually, they are "guaranteed" loans, not insured. A one-time "funding fee" is collected at closing but there is no insurance premium. And, YES, I'm in favor of the guaranteed VA loans because it encourages lenders to make no down payment loans to vets. HOWEVER, I'm NOT in favor of the government taking over the property in case of default. The U.S. government doesn't belong in the real estate business. Let the LENDERS deal with the consequences for making bad loans and make the LENDERS responsible for trying to recover any losses.

Then why should the government guarantee loans to anyone?

Jest Getting a Bong -

Exactly the Point:
WTF does "National Defense" have to do with IRAQIS..!??
Why do you swallow so much BUSH and LUSH SPEW..??

WTF is NOT CLEAR - ZERO IRAQIS involved in 9/11, NO WMD, NO Al Quaeda connection, NO Terrorists there (before Dumbya opened the Gates, provided a training ground and Guns), Never ONE threat to AMERICA!!

NATIONAL DEFENSE means LEAVING our NATIONAL GUARDS in AMERICA to PROTECT AMERICANS!!!

Stop BUYING the BUSHIT! PROVIDE a SANE Response please!

"Then why should the government guarantee loans to anyone?"

Who said they should? If it was handled like the "old days" the government's only involvement was providing the guarantee. It made loans easier for vets after WWII. Back in those days most folks paid their debts so there was no gov. involvement past making the guarantee. When some loans were defaulted, the lender conducted auctions and recovered the loan balance. If not, the government paid any loss to the lender, THEN went after the vet to recover the taxpayers' money. It's not like that now. I am in favor of the way VA loans were INTENDED to be processed, not the way they do it now. The FHA has similar programs for non-vets and they are being mishandled the same way. Read about it. It's costing the taxpayers a bundle these days and wasn't designed that way.

DAMN, Dirty Boy! Somebody must have really peed in your cereal this morning. After that tirade, I'm speechless and can only think of the immortal words of our distinguished vice president to repeat to you. "Go fvck yourself."

Just gettin' a Bong -

Bush, Lush, Dick and your "christ"ian Gurus with zero military experience taught you all they know:
- Attack the messenger, ignore the message

YES - Frustrated by the level of Stupidity of ditto-Shaivos who put our Money and the Guns in the hands of other Republitards

No response? Of course
Please REMEMBER your Stupidity and to NOT Respond during NOVEMBER 2008 TOO..!!

Thank you from All Americans
Praise the LORD and GOD BLESS the CLINTONS!!

"Then why should the government guarantee loans to anyone?"

Who said they should?

You did:

And, YES, I'm in favor of the guaranteed VA loans...
Posted by jestgettinalong at 2007-08-11 12:55 PM

"YES - Frustrated by the level of Stupidity of ditto-Shaivos who put our Money and the Guns in the hands of other Republitards"

ZZZzzzzzzz...

jester
- Yes, please just take another Bong hit and sleep right thru to JAN 2009

When you awake and DEMS are back in Control
AMERICA will finally be SAFE Again!!

"Then why should the government guarantee loans to anyone?"

I didn't say they "should." Once they started, I said I was in favor, but it wouldn't bother me if they stopped. I wouldn't be saying they SHOULD be guaranteeing loans and SHOULDN'T have stopped.

You said, "I'm in favor of the guaranteed VA loans."

So, once a program where the government guarantees loans gets underway, it shouldn't be stopoped? Even if it violates your cherished principles?

I think the government guaranteeing loans for veterans is a lot different than the government bailing out people who made poor mortgage choices.

"So, once a program where the government guarantees loans gets underway, it shouldn't be stopoped? Even if it violates your cherished principles?"

Did you read my previous post??? I said I WOULD NOT be saying it shouldn't be stopped. In fact, there are THOUSANDS of government programs that should be stopped as far as I'm concerned. You don't know what my "cherished" principles are anyway. One of them is minimum federal government in case you couldn't tell. I got a couple of VA loans years ago but that was before the government got so intrinsically involved in the program. Paper work is horrendous and other requirements are such that many lenders won't participate these days. Wouldn't bother me one iota if the government discontinued VA guarantees TODAY.

Tell the truth...you just wanna twist my tail a little anyway, right? You couldn't care less one way or another, could you?

"I think the government guaranteeing loans for veterans is a lot different than the government bailing out people who made poor mortgage choices."

Absolutely...the program as first conceived was simple, not costly, and helped our WWII vets immensely. As in all government programs, it has grown into some unwieldy financial mess and is costing the tazpayers.

Tell the truth...you just wanna twist my tail a little anyway, right? You couldn't care less one way or another, could you?

Well, it was a big tail just hanging down from one of the branches. So I thought I'd give it a good yank.

The Denial is Amazing -

The PROBLEM is not "Bad Mortgage" decisions.

The PROBLEM is that Dumbya and the GOP Rubber Stampers passed everything possible to reward and benefit their Contributors and CREDIT PREDITORS, Bankruptcy laws written by Loan Companies, and do NOTHING to Help Real Americans!!!

NEOCON Mantra - PROFITS over People, Always!!

"NEOCON Mantra - PROFITS over People, Always!!"

ZZZZZzzzzzz

ya know... I think this whole housing boom and bust cycle would be a lot different if American houses were actually worth anything in and of themselves. As it stands, they're crap and their value is always based on pure market speculation.

Houses here in Germany are built solidly and made to last, and last and last. Rooves normally have a 100 year guarantee. And values don't fluctuate like they do in the US. When you buy or build a house here, you can actually SEE where your money goes. You live in it. In the US, you essentially buy a piece of paper and the house itself is secondary.

I'm speaking from experience, having went through a real estate bust in NY in 1995 when the value of our (POS) townhouse dropped to 35% of what we'd bought it for. And having visited my sister numerous times, in two different, very expensive houses in Orange County, NY. And having helped build a few real houses over here. The difference really is really staggering.

Bella, after Hurricane Andrew down here in Florida you could drive down and see the destruction of all the newer homes. They just completely discintigrated. Not on single older home blew apart. The difference in building techniques was quite apparent. They changed the building codes but I doubt if they changed them enough to do any good if we get another direct hit from a category four or five storm. I'm sure it's pretty much the same thing all over the country. And, yes, you can blame it on the corporations who lobbied for years to destroy any real protection offered by real building codes. Hey, those guys don't care, they made their money, tough nookies for the owners. That's the American way.

"The PROBLEM is not "Bad Mortgage" decisions."

Of course not. In a liberal's eyes there is no such thing as personal responsibility

It's obviously the governments fault that these ala PT Barnum suckers making $50k/yr failed to see that there might be a problem taking out a $250k loan.

The PROBLEM is that Dumbya and the GOP Rubber Stampers passed everything possible to reward and benefit their Contributors and CREDIT PREDITORS, Bankruptcy laws written by Loan Companies, and do NOTHING to Help Real Americans!!!

What??? This kind of stuff didn't just suddenly happen when Bush became president. It's been going on for decades.

New Bankruptcy law that went into effect 1-1-2006 fucks you and rewards the credit card companies.

They do not care if you can pay now or not. They are a sleeping giant, collecting interest at outrageous rates, and guess what, you cannot declare bankruptcy on it anymore!!!

Orwellian Society is here. I hope you like anal sex, coz it is just starting.

The new credit law is worse than anyone can imagine. If you forfeit your property and the bank takes a loss, it's counted as a taxable gift. These people are going to be indentured servants for the rest of their lives.

That was a good read....anybody who didn't know the mortgage industry wasn't in trouble, didn't know it. banks don't hold these high risk loans..they sell them.

Banks and mortgage lenders made their money, offering loans to people who had no business buying too much house. But everybody pushes them... the real estate agents, everybody trying to get someone into a house knowing well they won't be able to keep it.

Our freind GWB buys what he can't afford, too, and the Chinese seem to be such a willing lender. Wondering if we should call their bluff when they say they'll sell off their treasury holdings.

Would they do it? Let em. Sure it'd hurt, but in the long term interest of the US, which is better, a short term recession, or having China continue these unfair trading practices...not floating their currency, shipping bad goods, dumping goods, mislabeling goods.

I'm for cutting back on Chinese goods I buy. But I didn't yesterday, I bought a 2gb USB drive and sure as hell, 'assembled in china'. sigh. but it was only twenty bucks! Not 40 like the others.

-0-

I've floated around a few blogs and I keep seeing this classic lib vs cons... nobody listening, everybody talking. Time to quit cheerleading for a political party. Time to just reverse soem of the bad laws the republicans slipped in, like the bankruptcy law... And yup, i'm in to say the government should not bail out people who bought conventional mortgages they couldn't afford. Unlike the S&L crisis, these mortgages weren't insured. Hence the bankruptcies.

The only people who will suffer will be those who bought more house than they could afford. Buy a house you CAN afford, and stay there, don't be using your house as an investment opportunity to buy and sell at a profit.

"The only people who will suffer will be those who bought more house than they could afford."

...at the hands of predatory lenders who knew how to add a column of numbers yet willingly sold buyers a dream the lenders knew the buyers couldn't ultimately afford.

And...fees up-front, of course.

Here in SoCal the foreclosures are coming thick and fast. It is already a crisis here. Even though I know nothing about real estate law, on a weekly basis I have some other poor soul asking for legal advice about what to do in regard to a pending foreclosure.
Not that Bush or any rightwingers give a damn. They would rather blame the victim and call them irresponsible. It is on issues like this that I realize just how different my way of thinking is from that of Republicans. (Actually, I tend to think that Republicans don't think. They snicker and cast blame.)

It is in the face of this type of crisis that we need an FDR, not a Hoover/Bush, making the decisions. I have no doubt that the next Democratic President (be it Obama or Hillary or Gore) will help the ordinary hardworking Americans who are losing their homes due to this flagrant example a corporate blood sucking.

(Actually, I tend to think that Republicans don't think. They snicker and cast blame.)

Posted by moder8 at 2007-08-12 04:14 PM


What utter bullshit, if you can't add, subtract, multiply and divide maybe you should just live in mom and dad's basement for your entire life, but don't forget to SUE the public school system for your inability to grasp simple math.

Plenty of hardworking honest Americans are losing their homes. These are not losers who live in Moms basement, as much as you rightwingers wish that were true. It is people who get caught by changing interest rates after being promised by unscrupulous lenders that this very thing would not happen.

I saw a segment on national news about the (majority) of foreclosures, many of them engineers, teachers and mostly college grads. I said to my wife (who has a masters)" wow and these are smart people"? To which she replied, they're educated which doesn't necessarily translate to smart.

Bawwwwwkkkkkk Polly wanna cracker?

It is people who get caught by changing interest rates after being promised by unscrupulous lenders that this very thing would not happen.

Posted by moder8 at 2007-08-12 04:34 PM |


If you see my post from several days ago you'll see that I indeed said there are multitudes of reasons people experience foreclosure. However, what we are seeing today is a bunch of people that put little to nothing down and therefore have little to nothing to lose thinking they'll make a bunch of money doing litte to nothing for it.

Let them and the lenders both wallow in their greed.

Same goes for credit card companies that send pre approved cards for 5 k and up to those stupid enough to use them stupidly.

Let em both wallow in their greed.

You call the desire of a young couple to own their own home "greed". I pity you.

It is people who get caught by changing interest rates after being promised by unscrupulous lenders that this very thing would not happen.

Posted by moder8 at 2007-08-12 04:34 PM |


If you're smart enough to listen and READ your contract you'll see that most adjustables are adjusted at specific times and have specific caps...

People like you always reason excuses for not having valid reasons.

Nobody put a gun to their heads.

Geez you rightwingers are so eager to call our most vulnerable citizens stupid and lazy. People trust. And they get taken advantage of by unscrupulous businessmen. But for you, that simply means the person getting screwed is "greedy".

No I pity you. I helped one of my friends get out of an fha (helped her acquire conventional financing, fixed rate) that she had been paying on for over 10 years, she still had no equity.... you want to talk about usery....nobody does it better than the US Govt.

So you agree that it is often innocent hardworking people who are losing their homes? That would be a step in the right direction.

No I don't agree. I agree hard working people sometimes do lose their homes, as well as their cars, furniture and many other items. That they don't know how to live within their means or don't know how to stay liquid by putting enough money down to lessen the risks of losing it ALL doesn't make them innocent, just naive.

Geez you rightwingers are so eager to call our most vulnerable citizens stupid and lazy. People trust. And they get taken advantage of by unscrupulous businessmen. But for you, that simply means the person getting screwed is "greedy".

Posted by moder8 at 2007-08-12 04:52 PM |


1st of all I'm not a rightwinger, ( but I think you're probably addressing me) 2ndly where in any of my posts pertaing to this topic have I used the word LAZY?

My point is that it is not stupid, greedy or any other pejorative word which applies to the vast majority of hardworking Americans who are now losing their homes. You think otherwise. (And yes, based on your posting history, I believe you are a rightwinger whether you realize it or not. For what it's worth, I used to consider myself a moderate before I joined this site. Now I realize I am pretty far leftwing compared to most.)