Dayummmmmm talk about having a wet car seat. I hope everyone is OK and alive. I would hate to think of the sinking feeling one would get while the bridge falls from underneith them.

Larry

That was the most poorly written news article I've ever read.

"There are multiple cars in the river and a couple cars on fire. According to one witness, there was a school bus full of children on the bridge.

Cars are still on the bridge."

Did an 8 year old write this shit?

Don't ask Me Ness I am just the idiot that posted it.

Larry

It's Minnesota, Larry.

"Did an 8 year old write this shit?"

Posted by ness_gadol

Eight-year-olds everywhere are insulted.
You better hope they have not converted to Islam yet, Ness.

i>"There are multiple cars in the river and a couple cars on fire. According to one witness, there was a school bus full of children on the bridge.

The truckdriver right behind the school bus helped all the kids to get out. Most were between 8-12 years old.

One woman said that she saw the construction workers using jackhammers on the bridge right when it began to rumble so she floored her car and got out in time.

It's already been said to be 'construction related."

say what you want about my following comment, I don't care --

Were unskilled, untrained illegal aliens being used by the contractors on this project to save money or were skilled and trained American construction workers being used? I've got my opinion.

"Did an 8 year old write this shit?"

Posted by ness_gadol

I must add that the worst blogs usually exhibit better sentence construction.

Cars are still on the bridge."

Did an 8 year old write this shit?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-08-01 08:08 PM |

A few cars are still on the bridge on the part of the bridge that is still sloping into the water but not underneath the water.

Any speculation as to way it collapsed?

Wisgod

They think it was construction related and witnesses said guys were working on it with jackhammers when the bridge started to rumble and go down. don't know if that was the exact reason but everyone is saying it was "due to construction"

Oh great Mr I need an ego stroking declares that I misspelt a Word. Oh My Call every stinking Spelling Teachers around the Country. Maybe they will come and spank My Hiney.

Larry

It's already been said to be 'construction related."

I hope they have a huge umbrella policy......hopefully in the $10 million range.

Yeah WisGod they said Zat burped and it travelled clear up to the Bridge. I say the trolls on the Drudge Retort got in a fistacuffs over who was going to be the next troller to troll the Drudge Retort and the Bridge came down.

Larry

Yeah WisGod they said Zat burped and it travelled clear up to the Bridge.

Whew....good. I thought for sure the finger would point to W. Then again, I'm sure it will when B-Bob shows up.

There is no money left for the living. All resources must be diverted for WAR.

Yep, I'm going to go there, cause it's the truth.

While a Trillion dollars is being pissed away into the sands of Iraq due to Bush's pointless war, the critical infrastructure of this nation is crumbling around us.

Investment in this nation, in the infrastructure that keeps us alive and allows our economy to work, is not being made.
Every tax dollar that disapears into Iraq is a dollar that can't inspect and repair a bridge, or a levy.

This is an urban arterial brige that will now have to be rush rebuilt at massive cost, many, many times what it would have cost to keep it maintained.
What is the economic cost of the loss of this bridge to Minneapolis? Why has the investment not been made?


And now CNN is reporting at least 7 people have died.
Yes we need to be vigilant against terrorism. But the way we are myopically waging war against the world at the expense of all else is biting us in the ass.
The risk of terrorism in our daily lives is being grossly overstated while the real risks grow all around us, and are ignored.

Norm, were the guys with the jackhammers affiliated with Habitat for Humanity?

W,
Could you restate that question in a form that makes sense?

AT Least RCADE with a Seniority level of 1 corrected My MisSpelt words and made a better headline doohicky thingymajigger.

Larry

Norm, according to you, we have NO money to invest in this bridge. But according to a few posters, guy's were working on the Bridge. Sorry you didn't get it. Next time I'll dumb it down for you.

It is well-known that infrastructure expenditure is not being made efficiently. Money is always available for "sexy" projects like war and "Homeland Security" but bridges and water lines and gas lines (100 year old gas line exploded in New York last week) are neglected.

This is the fault of all administrations who are too fixated on Defense spending and the Industrial-Military complex. This administration has, naturally, been worse than its predecessor's, but Clinton was at fault here too.

We have money for arms always and we are always short of money for things that make daily life and living better.

And don't give me the Right Wing Crap about Freedom- we can see how that is doing.

Norm, according to you, we have NO money to invest in this bridge. But according to a few posters, guy's were working on the Bridge.

A couple guys patching potholes isn't quite what I was talking about. That's a band-aid on a gaping wound, and you know it.

They weren't working to repair a structural failure. If they were, the bridge would have been closed. They didn't even know the structural damage was there. THAT'S what I'm talking about. When was the last time this bridge was inspected top to bottom? When was the last time the brige was overhauled?

Was this 30 year old bridge even rated to carry the current trafic load? I highly doubt it.

I agree with Sitdown, this is a systematic failure of government across all levels and administrations.

But until some other President pisses away a Trillion dollars, Bush gets the gold star.

"This is an urban arterial brige that will now have to be rush rebuilt at massive cost, many, many times what it would have cost to keep it maintained.
What is the economic cost of the loss of this bridge to Minneapolis? Why has the investment not been made?"

Not again?!?

How do you know it wasn't properly maintained? None of the news outlets have indicated this. I think they are blaming construction errors. Where'd you get this information?

Here we go again. *yawn*

I just think that somehow, somway, Bush had to be blamed. Money towards the war and not towards infrastructure maintenance was obviously the only way to blame him.

It is so pathetically unoriginal to blame Bush on everything. It'll be so good to get a Democratic president just so everything beautiful sunrise, every scent of a rose, every smiling baby can be attributed to her.

Of course everything bad will stiill be Bush's fault -- that is until another Republican inhabits the White house.

I'm off to another thread to see what else Bush is being blamed for. Oh, there's one! A 7.3 earthquake in the Pacific. I'm going to hop on over there and see how the GOP pulled that one off.

Was this 30 year old bridge even rated to carry the current trafic load? I highly doubt it.

Posted by Norm

So it's the Federal Goverments duty now to inspect bridges? I would have thought it would be the States responsibilty. Now if you can post proof that they were denied funding, I'll be on your side.

Norm, were the guys with the jackhammers affiliated with Habitat for Humanity?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You just wanted someway to blame Jimmy Carter for this. This is very aparent to anyone with a clue.

Larry

No Larry, Habitat for Humanity is one of his greatest accomplishments. Seriously!

So it's the Federal Goverments duty now to inspect bridges? I would have thought it would be the States responsibilty. Now if you can post proof that they were denied funding, I'll be on your side.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You would have a point if this bridge wasn't an INTERSTATE Bridge. But since it is an INTERSTATE Bridge that falls upon the Federal Government. But nice try once again.

Larry

It has become evident that Rogers' true calling is Headline Editor.

RCADE with a Seniority level of 1

Yeah, about that... Spud is just notice that Larry Mohr is number 19 and Spud is number 17 so Spud'll just remind Larry to respect his elders now, ya hear?

Also while on the topic. Is Spud totally retarded?

Spud remembers quite a few folk with higher seniority numbers hereabouts who were already here when Spud is arrive. Zat springs instantly to mind here as does Danni et al. Some, like Lisa, who was formerly known as InWis ('Lo Innie!), changed handles along the way and thus are explained but surely Tony Roma and other folks hereabouts pre-date the spuddish one by a fair margin. Ooh ...Gal T too. Admittedly Spud hasn't checked all the numbers on this but there must be a few folk who fit in this category if Spud aint just losing his marbles again. Mis-remembering, if you will.

Anybody go back to the goofy news parody days?

Montecore must be OD (Original Drudgsta) thinks Spud.

Be Well.

I'm off to another thread to see what else Bush is being blamed for. Oh, there's one! A 7.3 earthquake in the Pacific.
Posted by goatman

There should be a new one coming soon. "Pelosi following Hillary's Lead? Cleavage on the House floor?"

George is a breast man.

Any speculation as to way it collapsed?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 08:39 PM | Reply

Down.

It is the assault on infrastructure that is ultimately responsible for this. These type of incidents will become all too familiar in the near future as state governments cut out maintenance and repair of bridges and roads to pay for the cries for excessive tax cuts.

Yes Spuderick I respect My ELders unless they give Me cause NOT to respect them that is.

Larry

The bridge was built in 1967. Remember where we were throwing billions of dollars in 1967.

Another little nuisance called Vietnam. And we were doing it to protect the American Way of Life, right?

You would have a point if this bridge wasn't an INTERSTATE Bridge. But since it is an INTERSTATE Bridge that falls upon the Federal Government. But nice try once again.

Larry

Perhaps you meant "Intrastate"? But that's okay. Let's take any blame off of the State of Minnesota for their negligence of poor maintenence as long as you have GWB to blame.

George wanted to personally inspect it, but Dick remined him that there is no oil in Minnisota.

Perhaps you meant "Intrastate"? But that's okay. Let's take any blame off of the State of Minnesota for their negligence of poor maintenence as long as you have GWB to blame.

Posted by eberly at 2007-08-01 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Nope I meant what I said. If this wasn't an INTERSTATE Bridge it would fall upon the State's Responsibility but since it IS an INTERSTATE Bridge it falls upon the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to maintain. Nice try though. Better luck next time.

Larry

Perhaps you meant "Intrastate"? But that's okay. Let's take any blame off of the State of Minnesota for their negligence of poor maintenence as long as you have GWB to blame.

Posted by eberly at 2007-08-01 09:22 PM | Reply

"Lt. Amelia Huffman of the Minneapolis Police Department told CNN affiliate KARE it was "not clear at this point what caused the collapse" of the Interstate 35W bridge near University Avenue"

No, Larry was correct. I can understand your attempt at trying to shift the focus off the failure that the federal government has become.

The taxpayers of the state of Minnesota have been bamboozled by our local democrats into funneling transportation money into light rail and other money pits. Any lack of infrastructure dollars for bridges and highways lies solely on their shoulders.

Also, I have friends that were working on that bridge and they were just doing surface deck repairs. Nothing that would have caused it to collapse. Luckily everyone got out o.k.

How do you know it wasn't properly maintained? None of the news outlets have indicated this. I think they are blaming construction errors. Where'd you get this information?

Impossible that this was a "construction error". The force of a jackhammer compared to hundreds of loaded semi trucks day in and day out?

No way. You couldn't jackhammer an intact bridge down if you tried.
This bridge had already failed structurally. It was coming down jackhammer or no.

And there's enough blame to go around. Minnesota is to blame as well for not making the propper investments.

If sure it's still Bush's fault.

Nothing is Bush's fault. Right, Goatman?

"Nothing is Bush's fault. Right, Goatman?"

Wrong. Bush is to blame for a lot of bad things. But in spite of what a blinded-by-the-democratic-
party sheep says, he's not to blame for everything.

"Quite, quite mad."

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud


And your point is?

BTW Jim Michener did NOT get a "nobody home" reaction from me. More like, "Damn! How can I keep up? This conversation is very complex and subtle. Frigging genius."

And he was in a wheelchair on dialysis.
What an intellect.

Osama's on dialysis.

Goatman-
re: Wrong. Bush is to blame for a lot of bad things.

Such as?

Actually, it is the feds, states, and local:
feds 22%
state 50%
locals 28 %

fs1.hotmix.org

But don't worry. If sure it's still Bush's fault.

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-01 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Did You even read the link that You Provided. It declared the TOTAL amount of Money spent on Highways within the United States. NOT who is Responsible for the INTERSTATE Highway system. But nice try once again.

Larry

It is the assault on infrastructure that is ultimately responsible for this. These type of incidents will become all too familiar in the near future as state governments cut out maintenance and repair of bridges and roads to pay for the cries for excessive tax cuts.


Tax cuts are not the problem. Granted, I am viewing this issue through the prism of Michigan's current budget deficit.



Jimmy,

Reagan's tax cuts were derided as fiscally irresponsible. Yet, federal tax revenues actually increased 7 out of the 8 years he was in office.

You are a pretty smart guy so you are probably familiar with the Laffer curve (sp?). Basically, what it postulates is that a certain percentage of taxation translates to a maximum level of tax revenues. Ultimately, revenue is what matters. Essentially, over-taxation can result in an actual reduction in tax revenues.

U.S. tax dollars given by Bush for his war profiteers to repair/rebuild Iraq's bridges:

Major Bridges [in Iraq]:

$4.3 million has been provided to repair the Tikrit Bridge;

$4.4 million to rebuild the Al Mat Bridge; and

$3.2 million to rebuild the Khazir Bridge.

How much of our tax dollars were given by Bush to the U.S. citizens of Minnesota to fix their antiquated bridges? Hmmmmm?

Did this bridge belong to the State of Minnesota or was it "Bush-privatized" and sold off to some foreign owner? Just curious.

Yes Spuderick I respect My ELders unless they give Me cause NOT to respect them that is.

Good to hear Larry, Spud is just joshing mostly and also getting used to the new concept inherent in the latest DR evolution.

Spud is largely respectful to everybody, at least Spud tries most days. Strewth, is hard sometimes. Spud is mostly respectful to those who practise reciprocity in that regard rather than their counterparts.

Some days Spud reckons this place is a lot like Rodney Dangerfield.

It could use more respect.

Mostly Spud just thinks the MSM are overly respectful to the powers-that-be and that it's up to blogworld to provide a neccessary counter-balance to that.

Calling Dubya (already a stupid enuff name) "Dumbya" and Cheney "Dickless of the 5 deferments" is all part of that.

If Cheney was less of a dick then Spud would be less less inclined to call him "Dickless", btw.

As it is though? ...Not so much.

Be Well.

"They didn't even know the structural damage was there. THAT'S what I'm talking about. When was the last time this bridge was inspected top to bottom? When was the last time the brige was overhauled?"

The news just mentioned that the bridge was scheduled for "concrete rehabilitation" next year.

I took that bridge to work at 6 this morning.

Sorry, Data

Essentially, over-taxation can result in an actual reduction in tax revenues.

Folk who play Civilisation know this.

Also ROTK to a certain extent.

But the regressive tax structure that Bush has opted for rewards those who least need it, ignores the poor, allows the middle class to continue it's slide and borrows from the Chinese with their under-valued yuan to pay for it. Add that up to the fiscal nightmare that is Iraq and any percieved minor bump in the tax revenues are inconsequential to the fact that he's pissing away America's future in a big black oily hole called Iraq.

Bring back the estate tax and close the loopholes.

Be Well.

Could the jackhammer have set up fatal harmonics?

Only a guess though.

Spud,


Mostly Spud just thinks the MSM are overly respectful to the powers-that-be and that it's up to blogworld to provide a neccessary counter-balance to that.


Over the last few months you've really hammered the ever-increasing importance and relevance of blogworld.


I share your opinions on this.


Allow me to illustrate with a familiar example:


Rush Limbaugh's show just hit it's 19th year in broadcasting. That is a LONG time and he is #1 in his field, by a considerable margin.

Is he really THAT good?

I've listened to his show quite a bit over the last 4 years and I'd say 'no'.

So why does his show continue to prosper AND why does his show enjoy its longevity?

Market forces.


Without getting into the liberal media bias debate in detail, I posit that Rush's success is largely driven by the fact that a perception exists that the MSM is biased left. This perception creates a natural demand for a counterpunch. Rush provides that, which is why he's thrived for so long.

My ultimate point being: As long as the perception exists, be it real or imagined, that the conventional media isn't doing their jobs, a market-driven demand exists for a counterpunch. Blogworld fills that role.

Could the jackhammer have set up fatal harmonics?

Only a guess though.

Posted by TaoWarrior at 2007-08-01 09:49 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Oh like they tried to do on MythBusters with the walking feet?? You mean like that??

Larry

PS to Spud:

Any preliminary thoughts as to how your beloved Canucks will fare next winter?

Oh like they tried to do on MythBusters with the walking feet?? You mean like that?- Larry
---------------------------

They couldn't make that work on Mythbusters. I hope this bridge was a little more substantial than that.

"
Sorry, Data
"


Posted by happyending

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA


idiot

Last night I ate the last pompano at Vespaio

Did you have to shoot anybody over it?

Well... it is Texas after all.

Oh right Austin, Texas. Nevermind then.

An oasis that place is.

Osama's on dialysis

Let's hope Bin Hidin' puts the die in dialysis real soon.

James Michener?

The writer guy? 40 Book guy? Books? Hell, they were more like Tomes. Nobody ever made fun of anybody reading a James Michener novel. Why not? Cos if they did that person might get pissed off and then they are likely to wade over and beat the scorner into a quieter more respectful mode with sed Tome.

You can do serious damage with one of them puppies even in paperback form.

Also ...they were a great read.

Spud first read "The Source" in '75. Good stuff.

Michener wrote faster than a lot of people could read. He was kinda like Stephen King in that regard except smarter and less likely to involve the undead throughout his narrative.

Be Well.

The right harmonics will bring down the most robust structures.

They did another one with an earthquake machine and that time the harmonics did work.

It's all about getting the right frequency for a response, and has nothing to do with how substantial the bridge is.

As a semi-trailer was crossing the bridge, there was a bright orange flash. And no, it was not a reflection from a window, as the bride had no windows.

Sincerely, Buffalo Bob.

"Did you have to shoot anybody over it?"

No
I just ate it.
And it was wonderful.
Vespaio is a delightful place.

yum

Why should these people be able to sue whomever constructed/checked the bridge be liable if those who constructed the leveees in New Orleans can't be held liable?

Hey now spud what do you have against the undead poping up in novels?

Don't knock King or I might have to beat you over the head with the Stand, in hardback.

"the bride had no windows"

Damn

This is getting kinky.

My bad Zat. Eyes are going to hell. And I'm waiting for Federal Health-care before I get bi-focals.

Any preliminary thoughts as to how your beloved Canucks will fare next winter?

"Wot are gonna do tommorow, Brain?"

"Same thing we do every night Pinky
Try and Take Over the World!"

That sed, Spud has no doubts wotsoever that despite having never actually won the Stanley Cup in there history (unless you count there incarnation as the Vancouver Millionaires--which Spud does) that definitively THIS is the year that their opposition will tremble before them and the lamentation of their opposition fans will echo in the night only to dwarfed into silence as the hockey mad folk in Vancity go apeshit wild when the Vancouver Canucks finally WIN the Stanley Cup!

(Spud makes a mental note to self to save this particular post fer next year ...just in case)

Be Well.

"poping up"

The Pope is an idiot in a funny hat.

there is their, twice.

Be Well.

Spud,


I have no intention of saving your last post as a 'gotcha' down the road.


Sports predictions don't work like that.

Why do you think the Canucks time is near?


PS - The Ducks got even scarier during the off-season.


PPS - I think the Wings will be tough, but I question whether or not they can survive the Western conference playoffs.

Whoah now,

How can you ignore the 'Canes? We have put the 2006 Stanly cup team almost completly back together.

Beware the south will rise again.

What hockey team will win the Stanley Cup?

The one with the most Canadians

Funny was in 2006 'Canes vs. Oilers that came true only problem was the team with the most Canadians was from North Carolina not Canada.

To quote our frozen tater "strewth"

Any speculation as to way it collapsed?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 08:39 PM


Because it broke?

There is no money left for the living. All resources must be diverted for WAR.

Posted by nutcase at 2007-08-01 08:50 PM |


What war?

Any speculation as to way it collapsed?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 08:39 PM

Actually I think it was a fat Woman jumping up and down in Her car cause She really had to "Go" if You catch My drift.

Larry

George wanted to personally inspect it, but Dick remined him that there is no oil in Minnisota.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 09:23 PM |


Now that's some funny stuff.

The taxpayers of the state of Minnesota have been bamboozled by our local democrats into funneling transportation money into light rail and other money pits. Any lack of infrastructure dollars for bridges and highways lies solely on their shoulders.

Also, I have friends that were working on that bridge and they were just doing surface deck repairs. Nothing that would have caused it to collapse. Luckily everyone got out o.k.

Posted by the_nether at 2007-08-01 09:30 PM | Reply

Our govenor in Illinois is putting ours into health care. In fact they'll be running on empty here real quick.....Not to worry though, Rod the wonder boy, govenor extrodinare will save the day....

Yuck yuck yuck..... Liberals in this state (read, Chicago) really screwed themselves electing this puppet. He's wet behind the ears to say the least.... Interested Larry?

What war?

Good point. The US is currently not at war with anyone anywhere.

Actually I think it was a fat Woman jumping up and down in Her car cause She really had to "Go" if You catch My drift.

They build them big in the North Larry.

And he was in a wheelchair on dialysis.
What an intellect.

Osama's on dialysis.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2007-08-01 09:35 PM |


Not only that, he's DEAD too! Right, walkingdeadman?

You would have a point if this bridge wasn't an INTERSTATE Bridge. But since it is an INTERSTATE Bridge that falls upon the Federal Government. But nice try once again.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr
* * * *

Not true. Interstate highways are originally constructed via a federal/state sharing formula, usually 50/50, but in rural areas the fed gov't frequently picks up the entire tab for construction. Upon completion, though, repairs and maintenance fall to municipal governments.

Incubus, what is it with MN, WI, and IL? Are we the fucking tourism guides for AZ.?

They build them big in the North Larry.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 10:39 PM | Reply


They build them big in Central Kansas 6 foot 4 inches 382 pounder right Here.

Larry

Soon enough, Denmark Jeff and Buffalo Bob will be linking to sites that will say a structural collapse is impossible, and if you stare at a blue dot in the middle of the screen, you can clearly see that it was a controlled demolition.

Good point. The US is currently not at war with anyone anywhere.

Posted by TaoWarrior at 2007-08-01 10:38 PM |

I'm certainly not at war, I'm blogging. You?

Incubus, what is it with MN, WI, and IL? Are we the fucking tourism guides for AZ.?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 10:42 PM

City folk is all I can figure. You got anything better?

City folk is all I can figure. You got anything better?

Posted by Incubus_Con

Hard to say. I can't flag anyone down leaving WI. to ask.

My ultimate point being: As long as the perception exists, be it real or imagined, that the conventional media isn't doing their jobs, a market-driven demand exists for a counterpunch. Blogworld fills that role.

Spud was speaking once to a teenaged girl recently over here to visit from Shanghai. Spud asked about the quality of the news they have there. She explained that it was always good news because "nobody wants to come home and eat their dinner while watching bad things happen on teevee".

Spud smiled at that.

They still have old school propaganda working over there. They control all media and tightly monitor internet chat sites and the like (with an assist from their buddies at google et al) so it's good news all the time. Over here it's different. The long history of the independent press has been a mainstay of American Democracy for so long it's hard for some folk to see this, see how they've become overly cozy with their stories and have seemingly de-fanged themselves to serve as the lap dogs of governmental/ corporate policy rather than the attack dogs they were meant to be. This media failure causes resentment in a disappointed populace and that is root of Limbaughs success. He understands that anger and speaks to it.

Rush Limbaughs longevity to Spud does indeed come from the perception of his persona as being a counter balance to the "overly liberal media". In truth, he speaks to the angry person disatisfied with the low levels of rage exhibited by the regular talking heads by being continually angry over wotever the topic du jour is. Regular MSM is largely sopophoric, it lulls. Rush and O'Reilly and Coulter foster and feed on anger. Don't get Spud wrong, righteous anger can motivate some pretty noble deeds and is a useful thing. "Anger is an energy" sed John Lydon and Spud agreed. Lou Dobbs speaking out in outrage over the immigration and other issues is wot makes him popular too in Spud's rarely humble opinion.

This also why Spud is like blogworld.

We're angry! We're irreverent. We're brash.

We're beholden to nobody but ourselves, our isp providers and the ever winsome blog-god, our resident deus all up in this machina, RCade.

We're also angry.

See also...thoughtful, silly, incisive, rude, on point, way off base, funny, sad, insane, instructive, pop-cultured and all too human (with the exception of Spud of course)

All good reasons to like blogworld as Spud sees it.

Vox populi au go go!

Plus ...the spelling Nazis don't charge fer their esteemed services around here which is great fer those on a budget.

Also ...on very rare occasions we arrive at wot Spud liks to refer to as "brief shiny moments of consenus".

Ahhh... Good times, good times.

Be Well.

**Hockey Talk with JeffJ, TaoWarrior and Spud**

(You haff been warned!)

Jeff asks...

Why do you think the Canucks time is near?

To answer this question Spud'll have to skip to yer PS.

PS - The Ducks got even scarier during the off-season.

Having watched An Inconvenient Truth a coupla times now Spud is well neigh convinced that that Gore guy is understating the case. Spud reckons by the time the post season arrives Anaheim will be completely underwater and thus at a serious disadvantage come play-offs (assuming they don't all drown, God forbid).

Thus with them wisenanaheimers outta the way the path is clear for victory for the mighty 'nucks. Also we didn't really gain much in the off-season but neither did we lose that and the experience gained last year plus the goalie plus the near certain demise of the AMD's as the post season approaches in a tragic flooding accident all add up to victory. Sweet sweet victory. Thanx fer askin'.

More mockers of the Canuckian Faith...

Taowarriors question?

How can you ignore the 'Canes?

Spud don't ignore the 'Canes.
Florida too shall be under the sea (Sorry RC, Danni et al).

Be Well.

PS: On Topic?

Nobody has advanced the notion seriously that this terrible accident was all Bush's fault. That sed, the point, that there's crumbling infrastructure in the US at the same time that there's a sinkhole of money (not to mention lives) in Iraq, is a valid one to make.

I took that bridge to work at 6 this morning.

Posted by happyending at 2007-08-01 09:42 PM | Reply

Man, did you ever fit your blogger name today!

Oops!

'Canes are in Carolina not Florida!

Okay, not a flood, maybe a tornado or sommat there.

Hey, wouldn't that be ironic?

Be Well.

"They didn't even know the structural damage was there. THAT'S what I'm talking about. When was the last time this bridge was inspected top to bottom? When was the last time the brige was overhauled?"

Just got back into the house but before I'd left the news said the bridge had been inspected THREE years ago. Then some commentator asked if bridges, etc. shouldn't be given yearly inspections.

Well, we see how Bush has intentionally cut back on funds to hire more badly needed FDA and other product inspectors even though our foreign imports of food, etc have massively increased.

Why would it come as no surprise if we find out that Minnesota (along with the other 49 states) have had their state highway funds cut to the bone and had to cut back on inspectors, etc. Bush has cut back on everything for the states' benefits and funding and given the money back to himself and his uber rich pals in tax cuts instead.

Spud was speaking once to a teenaged girl recently over here to visit from Shanghai....

And Tater better be careful too 'cause 15 will get you 20 every time hahahahahaha

Don't knock King or I might have to beat you over the head with the Stand, in hardback.

Ha! Spud mocks SK but Spud has also read a lot of books too. The Stand friggin' rawked. A re-imagining (as they're calling re-makes these days) is well in order. Also Salem's Lot. The Shining with an ending more true to the book. Gunslinger would make a neat film too come to think.

Besides Spud didn't say SK was dumb just that Michener was smarter, that's all.

Michener, fer example, never got crushed by a mini van while out walking.

Be Well.

15 will get you 20 every time

"Better Jail bait than masturbate"

"No, that's 'better masturbate than cell-mate!'"

Be Well.

I just saw on CNN them put up excerpts from a 2001 inspection of the bridge that found, and I'm paraphrasing from memory:
"Structural fatigue in the approach sections of the bridge, and possible signs of fatigue in the main section of the bridge. They also found that the design of the bridge was not sufficiently redundant, and collapse was possible.
But the study concluded that the bridge 'probably' wouldn't collapse, and since replacing the bridge would be so expensive, it would be fine to defer replacing it.

Case closed. The bridge needed to be replaced, people knew it had to be replaced, but there was no money, so they said "we'll cross our fingers and hope it holds".

Well, it didn't. A failure at all levels.

NORM


But the study concluded that the bridge 'probably' wouldn't collapse, and since replacing the bridge would be so expensive, it would be fine to defer replacing it.

So, a 2001 inspection -- the year Bush was first in office -- it was found to be 'too expensive' to replace that bridge? No coincidence there.

We all know now that in 2001 Bush and his neocon thugs were planning on every federal dollar in our Treasury would NOT be going to help Americans but instead our tax dollars would be either for:

1) Bush's planned (though not yet unannounced to us) illegal war in Iraq;

and

2) fat tax refunds (via Bush's push for huge tax cuts) to go back into the personal bank accounts for the richest Americans -- the ONLY group that matters to Bush.

Bush murders in Iraq and murders us here at home.

NORM

Bush couldn't replace that Minnesota bridge just about to collapse but sure didn't have any problem finding and using our tax dollars to build/replace new bridges in IRAQ -- where his war profiteering pals could benefit.

Major Bridges [in Iraq]:

$4.3 million has been provided to repair the Tikrit Bridge;

$4.4 million to rebuild the Al Mat Bridge; and

$3.2 million to rebuild the Khazir Bridge.

I was going to write a parody blaming Bush for the collapse in MN.

I was going to be an angry, street-urchin of the Left-Wing blogosphere.

I was going to craft my post with every earnest-sounding and stupid fucking cliche I've ever read here, Kos, or in the media.

I have been beaten to the punch by someone with no intention whatsoever of being cute or funny.

And as a civic-minded American citizen, I find that very, very sad.

Oh God help us.

My younger brother is interning at an engineering firm (take it for what it's worth, I trust him) and his first comment was "there is no way in hell a construction company would allow people on this bridge if the structural integridy was that bad."

Any claims of a construction related failure seem to be BS to me. Given the large scale failure of the structure this seems to be a long time coming IMHO.

I say the Vibrations from the Jackhammer and the crews working vibrated just enough that it sheered the pins that held the Bridge up. But that is just Me.

Larry

...and his first comment was "there is no way in hell a construction company would allow people on this bridge if the structural integridy was that bad."

That's because it was no accident.

Look at the TrafficCam.

Look at the bright dot coming from the Honda Civic.

It moved.

Unocal needed a pipeline ROW on the I-35 corridor.

Bushco obliged.

Wake up, America.

JPW

Any claims of a construction related failure seem to be BS to me. Given the large scale failure of the structure this seems to be a long time coming IMHO.

Posted by jpw at 2007-08-02 01:53 AM | Reply

posted by Norm at 12:46 p.m. --

"Structural fatigue in the approach sections of the bridge, and possible signs of fatigue in the main section of the bridge. They also found that the design of the bridge was not sufficiently redundant, and collapse was possible.
But the study concluded that the bridge 'probably' wouldn't collapse, and since replacing the bridge would be so expensive, it would be fine to defer replacing it.

Any engineer types on here have any comments on the following article about the bridge?

from the Manketo Free Press (Minnesota)

Gov. Tim Pawlenty said the bridge was inspected by the Minnesota Department of Transportation in 2005 and 2006 and that no immediate structural problems were noted. "There were some minor things that needed attention," he said.

"They notified us from an engineering standpoint the deck might need to be rehabilitated or replaced in 2020 or beyond," Pawlenty said at a news conference in Minneapolis.

Road crews were working on the bridge's joints, guardrails and lights this week, with lane closures overnight on Tuesday and Wednesday. The bridge was fitted in 2001 with a computerized anti-icing system that sprayed chemicals on the surface during winter weather, according to documents posted on the Minnesota Department of Transportation's Web site.

Another MnDOT plan put the timeline for replacing the bridge somewhere between 2015 and 2023, at an estimated cost of $122 million.

Aerial shots from local television stations showed the entire span of Interstate 35W had crumpled into the river below. Some injured people were carried up the riverbank, while emergency workers tended to others on the ground.

Reports are that OUR infrastructure - highways and bridges - are all older and need of repair.

However, GWB finds it more appropriate to build...ahem, attempt to build them in Iraq with our hard earned tax dollars.

No bridge built by Ted Stevens has ever collapsed. Nuff said.

" Bush has cut back on everything for the states' benefits and funding and given the money back to himself and his uber rich pals in tax cuts instead."

Everyone has jumped on the "Blame Bush for cutting back funds, but not a single person has shown any figures that shows that money for interstate bridge inspection/repair have dropped since 2001. I myself looked shortly but couldn't find evidence one way or the other, so I'm going to say it's not true, but I am amazed at all the people professing it aas fact without hard numbers to prove it.

But then, these are the sheeple who have only one mantra: "Bush baaaaahd. Republicans baaaaahd. Even if there's not proof, Bush baaaaahd. Republicans baaaahd.

Sheep. Geeez. No wonder they have the wool pulled over their eyes by their party leaders.

so I'm going to say it's not true = I'm NOT going to say it's not true

It sure didn't take long for the "blame bush" crowd to come out of the woodwork.

And as usual, no evidence required.

It sure didn't take long for the "blame bush" crowd to come out of the woodwork.

No, it doesn't. But I have to admit this time it took longer than usual. A full 16 posts until Bush got blamed. I think this is a record. The Democrats must've been asleep at the wheel on this one.

Goatman, Bowa

+1

Keep laughing guys, keep it up. America's infrastructure is crumbling around us, and massive work is needed, and it's not being done.

How long do you expect the commercial engine of the US economy to function without a transportation infrastructure?

""How long do you expect the commercial engine of the US economy to function without a transportation infrastructure?""

Do you honestly think that people who are investing in China really care what happens here???
Internationalists are running America and our infrastructure is less and less important as they invest in other places.

"Do you honestly think that people who are investing in China really care what happens here???"

THey'd better since just about everything that is bought and sold globally uses dollars as the currency of choice. This includes all oil transactions. If the American economy goes tits up, so do the economies of the rest of the world.

""A full 16 posts until Bush got blamed.""


Cuz spending hundreds of billions in Iraq doesn't cause any shortage of funds for infrastructure repair here....Right wing logic.

The collapse is indicitive of much of US infrastructure. It is built to generate revenue for companies. Maintenance? If profits can't be made or residents don't have influence or money then little maintenance work is performed unless absolutely neccessary.

I know East Coast and Bay Area quite well. Money is finally being put into light rail and other trasport in Bay Area because it absolutely has to or growth will stagnate. Long range planning, hardly?

East Coast, what a joke. Roads and neighborhoods, pre-existing starter home 40yo area that I grew up in are completely run-down road wise and infrastructure but still solid working/lower middleclass. Little if anything spent on maintenance. Why? No new money to be made for construction companies.

Seriously, many areas of the East Coast look poorer than Central Europe where I live now.

Poor maintenance of infrastructure is not a Bush problem its an American problem.

""Poor maintenance of infrastructure is not a Bush problem its an American problem.""

And we all know that it isn't the job of the president to lead. The president is just a resident of the WH (unless he's vacationing). No blame for anything should ever be put on him.
Unless he's a Democrat.

Wow, some on the left ARE actually blaming Bush. For a bridge collapse. First, he steered a hurricane, now this?

What a sad state of affairs the left is in.

Danni,

They don't even know why this happened yet and you just can't wait to blame the president. I'm no fan of his either but my god you people are unreasonable. How about you reserve judgement until the facts come out. Then, if money that was meant for infrastucture is found to have gone to Iraq you can spew all the filth you want.

Until then, you are just using this tragedy as an excuse to vomit garbage from your gaping maw.

"Cuz spending hundreds of billions in Iraq doesn't cause any shortage of funds for infrastructure repair here....Right wing logic."

I see you have fallen for the "repeat it enough until they believe it logic" but you won't produce any numbers to prove that money for maintenance and repair on the interstate system has gone down.

Keep repeating, love, not quite everyone buys it yet, but you're getting there.

No Danni,

As much as I think Bush is criminally incompetent at the minimum the lack of care of existing infrastructure in the US is a fundamental American problem that has existied and been perpetuated by Democrats and Republicans. Just like New Orleans. Except in NO case FEMA was a non-response and clearly Shrub's fault. Thank god FEMA wasn't needed in Minnesota.

"Cuz spending hundreds of billions in Iraq doesn't cause any shortage of funds for infrastructure repair here....Right wing logic."

Danni, my sweet, I believe the bridge was kinda new. Shouldn't have been in need of "repair." No matter...I'm sure it was Bush's fault.

Built in 1967, but regardless... blaming the president is just brainless speculation at this point. There is no information to support Danni's theory other than George W Bush is in league with the devil and is in fact the anti-christ...that we know for sure.

WASHINGTON - The White House said Thursday that an inspection two years ago found structural deficiencies in the highway bridge that buckled during evening rush hour in Minneapolis.

ADVERTISEMENT

White House press secretary Tony Snow said the Interstate 35W span rated 50 on a scale of 120 for structural stability.

"This doesn't mean there was a risk of failure, but if an inspection report identifies deficiencies, the state is responsible for taking corrective actions," he said. The bridge was 40 years old.

Looking through this thread, about 95% of the posts appear to be about which party or portion of government we can blame for this (and thereby feel righteous about our own ideology). Absolutely sickening. There are people trapped under concrete and 9 feet of water, dead in their cars right now. Get off this site for a while and get some fucking perspective.

Bush's fault. POS.

Poor maintenance of infrastructure is not a Bush problem its an American problem.

Posted by furio at 2007-08-02 10:20 AM | Reply

And yet the governor vetoed a bill that would have paid to repair this bridge.

with respect to the blame game. Government and changes in our economy are very slow. Thus Bush initially fought the Iraq War with Clinton's Army. But at this point its his fucking mess, his and his alone.

this bridge collapse is symptomatic of BushCo's policies which have diverted resources into all the wrong places. He has gotten so much so wrong, we are going to feel the costs for twenty to fifty years. Republicans will use the ensuing crisis to justify endless cutbacks and graft.

Joe, you are so right. I used to work at a place that whenever something went wrong the first order of business was to point fingers and assign blame -- not to fix the problem.

I remember once I was called late one evening to dial into a piece of telephony equipment to determine what was wrong and why we had dropped calls. While I was working on it I was called on my other line by my boss to join a conference call. In this call there were VPs and other biggies wanting to know this and that and who did this and that and who was to blame. Then I, a lowly technician who was merely trying to get the damn thing fixed but couldn't because I had to join this conference call, chimed in, "Who are we going to blame when I finally find the problem but we missed the last flight out of Dallas that could deliver the part?" The phone went silent. I was repremanded the next day for insubordination, but dammit -- I got the problem fixed.

And Joe, you are right -- 95% of the people here want to assign blame. They don't seem too concerned with fixing the problem.

"And yet the governor vetoed a bill that would have paid to repair this bridge."

". . . the state is responsible for taking corrective actions,"

These things can't be true. Danni, in her infinite wisdom, said it was Bush's fault.

Goatman, while I appreciate your supposed agreeing with me, I don't think we're on the same page. You correcting people with regard to who is to blame is no better than placing the blame in the first place - you're still playing the game. I find the knee-jerk political bullshit on this thread disgusting, but maybe that's because I have friends in Minneapolis.

""These things can't be true. Danni, in her infinite wisdom, said it was Bush's fault.""

OK Goatman, have it your way, it is the Republican Governor's fault.

BTW, President Bush tried to blame it on the Dems for not passing his spending bill yet. Where is Goatman's outrage at Bush trying to divert blame onto Dems in Washington who had nothing to do with this and bare no responsibility???

THIS JUST IN.....
Bush declares a no-bid contract for Haliburton to repair the bridge. In his announcement he warns that we should not expect it to ever be completed though they will recieve 100% of the payment.

GOATMAN/JOE - I totally agree.

Having worked in the IT field most of my life, they setup whole inquiry boards (particularly at my current employer) to figure out who to blame.

FUCK the blame game, let's get all of the other bridges inspected around the country and get it fixed. If time permits after, then we can "blame" someone.

I agree, that SOMEWHERE a ball has been dropped... but now isn't the time to look for the bounce mark.

This just in! The liberal maroons in this state have been shoveling highway money into the bottomless lightrail pit and now it's apparent that it was better used elsewhere!

Bottomline, there is no one person to blame this on. Just our busted ass political system. We try to vote for the lesser of two evils and all we get is evil. None of them care about whats good for the state, city, country. They just blow smoke up our ass until somethiing goes wrong, then they point their finger across the aisle.

And Danni, I know I've said this before...but you may be the most out of touch ingorant boob on the planet. Kudos!

"you're still playing the game. I find the knee-jerk political bullshit on this thread disgusting, but maybe that's because I have friends in Minneapolis."

You're right, Joe. I did indeed do that in one of my posts in this thread and you are also correct, of course, that this is wrong.

I hope your friends are OK.

let's get all of the other bridges inspected around the country and get it fixed.

No, we have to run our country into the ground first and create a depression to fix all the much needed public byways.

Public byways a mess in your State? Why not head to Wisconsin. The road builders union is busy pulling the Governors strings, and we are proud to claim that we piss away every penny on road construction.

Sincerely, the Wisconsin Tourism Board.

40 years isn't very old. 1967... hmmm... what was going on in 1967 that may have diverted funds for a better quality bridge? Oh yeah, the first Viet Nam War. It's Lyndon Johnson's fault!

""And Danni, I know I've said this before...but you may be the most out of touch ingorant boob on the planet. Kudos!""

Oh, and I value your opinion so highly.
You apparently agreed with Bush that the Democrats in Congress were somehow responsible for this bridge collapse.

Joe,

Do you mind knocking off the sanctimonious drivel?

In case you haven't noticed this is a forum for political commentary. I haven't heard you call for respectful silence every day that innocent Iraqi civilians are getting slaughtered.

People all around the world are die constantly due to crime, poverty, disease, lack of government care or more likely all of the above in each case. To demand a stop to political debate about the causes is disrespectful to the dead and suffering.

Blow it out your ass, Furio. This is a forum for saying anything you want about daily news topics. I've made respectful comments about Iraqis and others plenty of times. I never demanded a stop to political debate, I just find it convenient that Democrats immediately wanted to blame the federal government and the fact that we spent so much in Iraq, while Republicans wanted to blame spending on liberal causes and bring up Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. I wanted them to take a step back from their typical froth-mouthed hysteria and realize that Americans just died in a tragic and horrible accident. Can't handle that? Too bad.

""I wanted them to take a step back from their typical froth-mouthed hysteria and realize that Americans just died in a tragic and horrible accident. Can't handle that? Too bad.""

Joe, I share your sorrow about the deaths but I think we are all a bit desensitized after watching TV daily and hearing about numbers approximately the same size dying in Iraq every single day.
Also, the priorities of our government, including the huge expense of Iraq is absolutely relevant to the deterioration of American infrastructure.
New talking point: If we spend it over there we can't spend it over here.

To say that just because people are dying somewhere else, that these deaths aren't significant or that the story doesn't deserve five seconds of dignified conversation before we jump into the same old left-right bullshit is lame. I wouldn't expect Danni to understand that till something like this happened in Florida.

I find the knee-jerk political bullshit on this thread disgusting, but maybe that's because I have friends in Minneapolis.

Posted by JOE at 2007-08-02 12:02 PM | Re

Have you been able to get in touch with them? Are they okay?

i said that sincerely, but now I'm going back to being political.

Chris, one I have heard back from and one I have not. Given the size of the city, the chances of him being affected by this are very small, but I guess you never know. Thanks for asking.

Well, that's good, Joe. I'm sure the guy you haven't heard from is okay. He's probably returning dozens of phone calls about how he is doing.

Joe,

You are being really naive. If you don't like the left-right attack on issues here because you are barely connected to events in the news then DON'T READ THE COMMENTS. There is a place for everything and this forum is obviously not one for spiritual reflection.

MINNESOTA

Minnesota voters last month signaled they want more money spent on roads, buses, bridges and rail in the state.

But with revenue from the state's motor vehicle sales tax on a downswing from slumping vehicle sales, the voter-approved constitutional dedication probably won't go as far as some would like to see.

Even the $300 million a year extra for transportation that it will bring by the time the tax is completely phased in by 2012 is little more than a drop in the state's $2 billion needs bucket.

"The bottom line is, we have really not put enough money into our transportation infrastructure in the last decade and we are paying for that now," said Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids, who will serve on the House Transportation Finance Division and on its transit subcommittee next year.

The discussion on paying to catch up will likely start with a gas tax increase, which was a main reason Gov. Tim Pawlenty vetoed a bipartisan transportation bill in 2005. St. Cloud Times 12/29/06

Bush Republicans have got to learn that they can't have MASSIVE and PERMANENT tax cuts for themselves, expect us to pay for their trillion dollar illegal war, AND still be able to keep this country's infrastructure and other needs running like it should.

"New talking point: If we spend it over there we can't spend it over here"

Still waiting on those numbers, Danni, that show that federal budgets for interstate bridge inspection fell since 2001. As I said in an earlier post, "Say it enough . . ."

"OK Goatman, have it your way, it is the Republican Governor's fault."

Thank god, right Danni? The smile must be back on your face because a Republican is responsible for someone's death yet again.

Furio, the funny thing about your comments is that in one sentence you rip me for trying to stop people from saying whatever they want, and in the next you tell me to take my spiritual reflection elsewhere. When you're appointed moderator, let me know - until then I'll say whatever the fuck I want about the people who post here.

Danni, that show that federal budgets for interstate bridge inspection fell since 2001. As I said in an earlier post, "Say it enough . . ."

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-02 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag

Under Bush federal budgets for EVERYTHING -- food inpsectors, building, safety, upkeep of our federal lands and parks, funding for the states, you name it -- have gone down and been cut.

Bush's tax cuts, his illegal war in Iraq, and the Iraq warprofiteering contracts for his buddies can be expensive you know. Bush has to make cuts somewhere so he takes it from us.

Joe,

I'm not the one whining like a little bitch because he doesn't like what people are writing. You sound like a far, far left wing liberal. "I can whine all I want and it is my right to whine about what I don't like in others but no one can compain about my bitchy whining because I am right."

"Under Bush federal budgets for EVERYTHING "

SHOW ME THE BEEF!

Damn -- what's so hard about this?

Yawwwn. You can say what you want, and I'll say what I want about you. Got it?

GOATMAN

here is your proof.

The federal government used to pay almost 100% of the infrastruture funds (in 1956 it paid 100%) up until the early 1990's [and paid under Clinton].

THEN, when the Republicans got into power, for the FIRST TIME -- UNDER BUSH -- "earmarks" were attached for the first time to all these infrastructure bills leaving less and less money for the infrastructure projects and repairs.

NO DEMOCRATS used to do that. NO ONE DID THAT -- UNTIL BUSH. "Earmarks" eating up the infrastructure funds only came into play when Bush and his corrupt cronies took over.

...The Interstate as an Exception

Many have come to view the dominant federal role in the Interstate system as normal, because it was the norm for the past half century. Yet compared with its role in other major systems in the nation's history, the federal role in the Interstate system is exceptional.

The Interstate is exceptional in another way. The program commanded widespread support from Congressand the states for almost four decades, from 1956 to the early 1990s. The total cost of the system in 2001 dollars is $418 billion. During that time, the Interstate program was subject to almost no earmarking of projects. No other federal capital program survived as long without becoming the target of legislative earmarking.


This exceptional period, however, appears to be drawing to a close. The recent reauthorization bill, the "Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users", contained more than 6,000 earmarked projects. Congress is no longer deferring to the judgment and guidance of the engineers and experts who designed and built the Interstate system.

The exceptional consensus vision that brought the Interstate into being is eroding, and this erosion places the transportation system at risk. The needs of the system are huge. The population served by the surface transportation system is growing rapidly. Traffic growth is likely to continue with economic and population growth. Traffic congestionplagues most American cities. The Interstate system is reaching its design life in most places and requires expensive reconstruction and renewal.

The system's capacity to meet those needs is sharply limited. Public support for expanding the highway system to accommodate new demand seems to be tepid at best, if not hostile.

There is no apparent appetite to raise the federal gas tax, even though the gas tax as a source of funding is being eroded by inflation. Alternative fuels not subject to the gas tax are already in use.

Earmarked projects are taking an increased share of funds, and little help can be expected from a federal budget that is in danger of being absorbed by retirement and medical entitlements.

In short, the state of normalcy to which the transportation community has become accustomed for the past half century is ending. The challenge to today's generation of transportation leaders is how to follow the Interstate's extraordinary opening act....

GOATMAN

here is the source. It's in pdf and I couldn't get it to link with my 'cut and paste' for some reason.

"[PDF] May-June 2006 TR News - the Exceptional Interstate Highway System"

"a federal budget that is in danger of being absorbed by retirement and medical entitlements."

This doesn't hold water, due to the fact that the cost of war is not mentioned.

Sincerely, the Left.

You apparently agreed with Bush that the Democrats in Congress were somehow responsible for this bridge collapse.

Posted by danni
--------

I agreed that if there is anyone to blame for missing state infrastructure money, it is the democrats. There's tons of money in this state for roads and bridges but the dems love bait and switch with transportation bills that ultimately funnel the money into light rail.

If the state of Minnesota is neglagent for not spending the money, then the left is reponsible for tying that money up in new projects when our existing infrastucture is in need of more imediate help.

Short answer, if it WAS a state money issue, ask the MN Dems how much they sunk into the train. It was more than enough for bridge repair.

Thanks for the links, y'all. I'm off to digest them and see if I can find that funding for interstate bridge inspection has indeed decreased since 2001 under Bush.

"a federal budget that is in danger of being absorbed by retirement and medical entitlements."

Did anyone else see the story on the other Drudge last week that it is projected that with current retirement ages and payouts that entitlements will take 70% of the federal budget by 2025?

"a federal budget that is in danger of being absorbed by retirement and medical entitlements."

This doesn't hold water, due to the fact that the cost of war is not mentioned.

Sincerely, the Left.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-02 02:02 PM |

That doesn't take a 'left point of view' to see the truth in that article.

The old tired "retirement and medicare" entitlements excuse of course isn't valid (because we have ALWAYS had those expenses for the last few decades and no money was ever stolen from the infrastructure funds before until now under Bush).

It wasn't until Bush's "CULTURE OF CORRUPTION" took over allowing 6000 EARMARKS to suck up the monies out of this fund -- along with the huge costs of Bush's war, his war profiteering contracts, and his excessive tax cuts for the rich -- that are the REAL reasons there is no money for infrastructure or anything else.

However, if that particular government publication contained those facts and truths you KNOW as well as I do that publication would never have seen the light of day. I was surprised this much truth came out.

ALSO, IMPORTANT -- BUSH WANTED TO SPEND NO MONEY ON INFRASTRUCTURE AS HE WAS IN TO SELLING OFF AMERICA AND PRIVATIZING THE OWNERSHIP OF OUR ROADS, HIGHWAYS AND BRIDGES -- along with everything else. that publication also touches on "privatization" might be a way to go to fund the infrastructure.

BUSH CAUSED THIS BRIDGE COLLAPSE by his CORRUPTION and absconding with public funds just as much as if he had put a stick of dynamite underneath it.

The post from furio at 1:51 deals with Nebraska state roads. I'm off to read the next one.

CalifChris, I can only speak for Wi., but there is a ton of Federal Pork that we get. As The Nether said, it get's diverted into something other that fixing infrastucture issues. Like MN oue Democratic leaders seem hell bent on some form of light rail.
And the thing that pisses us off is that we already are serveved by Amtrack.

Interesting article CChris you posted at at 1:55, but the only actual $$$ I see is 418 gigabucks in 2001. Then the next paragraph starts "This exceptional period, however, appears to be drawing to a close." Appears. No dollar amount stated.

This reads like an oped. Is it?

I'm moving on to the next link provided.

GOATMAN

It's not an op-ed. I'll try to get you to the document this way --

Go down the google page that will open up and scroll down to the last entry on the page which says:

"Did anyone else see the story on the other Drudge last week that it is projected that with current retirement ages and payouts that entitlements will take 70% of the federal budget by 2025?"

I read stories about that, and the wording was very inflammatory. The actual statistic is that in 2025, those causes will cost us 70% of TODAY'S budget. I'm not sure what that means in terms of inflation and the ever-expanding American government, but it's definitely not as scary as that spending taking up 70% of the entire 2025 budget.

GOATMAN

This was the title and the author:

"THE EXCEPTIONAL INTERSTATE
HIGHWAY SYSTEM"

Will a Compelling New Vision Emerge?

By: J O N AT H A N G I F F O R D

TR NEWS 244 MAYJUNE 2006

The author is Professor, School of Public Policy,
George Mason University, Arlington, Virginia, and was visiting fellow at the Transportation Research Board for 20052006. He chairs the TRB Transportation and Land
Development Committee."

"Did anyone else see the story on the other Drudge last week that it is projected that with current retirement ages and payouts that entitlements will take 70% of the federal budget by 2025?"...

None of you Bush suckups can stick that on the American people. We paid in our money for social security and medicare. Did you know the thug Bush plans on cutting back medicare payments to the doctors and physicians by almost 60% within a couple of years? Bush has cut back on food and safety inspectors, and every other thing he can get his crooked hand on to steal.

BUSH ROBBED THIS COUNTRY BLIND. His illegal war in Iraq is going to cost more than a trillion dollars. He has given billions in war profiteering contracts. If the money is so low in our treasury why does he keep yapping about making his tax cuts for the super rich permanent?

The Bush "culture of corruption" is coming home to roost -- starting with the cutting back of FDA and safety inspectors causing our free trade Chinese poisoned imports to end up on America's dinner table and in their pets' food bowls all the way to the 6000 "earmarks" syphoning monies out of our infrastructure funds never before done by ANY Congress until BUSH that put off fixing the Minnesota bridge that collapsed.

BUSH was your boy, your God -- AND NOW YOU ARE PAYING -- big time -- for supporting that criminal.

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I'm one of the super rich. You know, someone who makes over 200K joint income. The state goverment are the ones picking my pockets, not the Federal Goveremtn. And the only saving grace is the fantastic ecomomy we have been enjoying.

Zot

We already know the bridge had problems and needed repair.

WHY wasn't federal money available (the feds used to pay up to 90% of the funds needed by the states for their infrastructure up thru the 1990's until Bush got in office) to Minnesota to fix it?

See my post at 1:58 pm and 2:22 p.m. for the answers.

That's a good point WIS. The dems in MN want to start "taxing the rich their fair share" but they consider anyone over 80K of joint income "rich". Funny how many working class folks didn't realize they were rich.

Also, I spent five wonderful college years in "the Wizz" and since I've been back I'm wondering why I left. you may have some kooks over there too, but your state budget is lower than ours and you have half a million more people. What a paradise!

Keep up the good work. I may be coming over the border permanently any day now.

I found the budget for 2008, but I can't find the one for 2001 -- Clinton's last budget. I'm still looking though

www.fhwa.dot.gov

PLEEEEAAASSEEEE your boy Bush has been in (and looting) for the LAST SEVEN YEARS. You can't blame this on Clinton or anyone else but Bush and his culture of corruption that started the day he was in office.

REMEMBER THE LEVEES THAT BROKE DURING KATRINA?? Clinton set aside money for a ten year project for their repair. Bush told Louisiana in 2003 (before the project could be finished) that those levee repair funds would no longer be available because he needed them for his WAR.

Keep up the good work. I may be coming over the border permanently any day now.

Posted by the_nether

You may want to hold off. Gov. Doyle is proposong a 128B budget increase this year, which I think is a record among the 50 states. He also robbed our transportation fund a few years ago, and now we face this from The Democrats. Oh, and he is also proposing State wide Health Care.

WIS

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I'm one of the super rich. You know, someone who makes over 200K joint income. The state goverment are the ones picking my pockets, not the Federal Goveremtn. And the only saving grace is the fantastic ecomomy we have been enjoying.

Be glad you don't live in socialist California.

"Any speculation as to way it collapsed?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 08:39 PM

Actually I think it was a fat Woman jumping up and down in Her car cause She really had to "Go" if You catch My drift."
I would suspect synchronized masturbation.

Thanks for the efforts put forth on the links CChris, but I was looking for something more substantial as in $$$ spent in FY 2001 vs $$$ spent in FY 2006. As you see I found it for 2008. It should be on the fhwa.dot.gov, but I'm having a helluva time finding it.

I would suspect synchronized masturbation.


Posted by noah at 2007-08-02 03:06 PM | Reply

This would be an incorrect assumption for You see synchronized Masturbation would still use the same forwards and backwards movements that cars make over the bridge. "Therefore no up and down movement"

Larry

Damn WIS! I guess the Peoples Republic of Minnesota is rubbing off on you guys after all. It's a damn shame... real nice states we had here once.

"We're angry! We're irreverent. We're brash."

We're angry! We're irrelevant!

Fixed it for you.....

"PLEEEEAAASSEEEE your boy Bush has been in (and looting) for the LAST SEVEN YEARS. You can't blame this on Clinton or anyone else but Bush and his culture of corruption that started the day he was in office."

You've missed the point completely, CC. I'm not blaming anyone. In the spirit of fairness I am doing y'all's work for you by providing the burden of proof that y'all won't. I found Bush's budget for the highway system. I know that number. I don't know how much Clinton spent. I am now looking for Clinton budget so I can find out. Then we can compare to determine if Bush did decrease the budget.

Sheesh! Don't be so touchy!

Also Chris, I'm pretty sure it's time to throw in the towel on Mexifornia too. Sounds like we all need a new place to call home. Preferably one with no state income tax. Does anyone know if Wyoming is nice?

WisGod-
Have you had any bridges collapse in Wisconsin?

Texas is nice. We have no state income tax.

Sounds good Goat, but do I need to brush up on my spanish?

WisGod-
Have you had any bridges collapse in Wisconsin?

Posted by Boyd

Nope. I think that is due to the fact that most businesses and retirees have left. The bridges don't see much traffic anymore.

Goatman, can you still drink while driving, and carry a gun in Texas?

W is God-
re: can you still drink while driving, and carry a gun in Texas?

Not at the same time.

BTW, I'm sorry to hear that your state sucks.

can you still drink while driving

No.

The fucking morons in the legislature passed an open container law a few years back, despite the fact that there's exactly zero evidence whatsoever that an open container of alcohol has ever killed anybody.

Its a law for which I have no respect, and one with which I do not comply.

One of life's simple pleasures is driving down a Hill Country road on an early evening with a Coors 'twixt my legs and a Lucky.

Nobody's going to tell me I can't do that.

carry a gun in Texas?

Yes you can.

do I need to brush up on my spanish?

Yes you do.

""Its a law for which I have no respect, and one with which I do not comply.""

Not much different from those of us who toke the gonge.

gonge???
ganja???
what the hell...pot.

Pinche, you're my hero.

Pinche, you're my hero.

Posted by the_nether

I second that. "and a Lucky"....priceless!

Then we can compare to determine if Bush did decrease the budget.

Sheesh! Don't be so touchy!

Posted by goatman at 2007-08-02 03:12 PM | Reply


I will await your findings with bated breath.

"Any speculation as to way it collapsed?

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-01 08:39 PM

The cable stations just had a bunch of engineers, highway dept. types, etc describe everything. very interesting.

they said that on a scale of 1 - 9 -- with 9 being the safest -- this bridge rated a 4. It was also the MOST traveled bridge in the state with up to 172,000 cars per day.

They also said they had two options after having an inspection review done -- either reinforce the bridge with steel, etc. in the needed spots

or

2) do nothing and just keep on inspecting it every year. They chose number 2.


the news also said it would probably cost over $100 million to replace the bridge.

Bush offered today to send $5 million to Minnesota towards repairing their bridge

ahem, cough, cough, errr,

below is what Bush paid out in the year 2003 alone for IRAQ's bridge replacements and repairs --

Major Bridges [in Iraq]:

$4.3 million has been provided to repair the Tikrit Bridge;

$4.4 million to rebuild the Al Mat Bridge; and

$3.2 million to rebuild the Khazir Bridge.

Being that I'm 20 minutes from the bridge and since 6pm yesterday the Twin Cities has been nothing but talk about this I'd like to weigh in on a couple things.

My first thought when I saw the news here was that people would automatically assume this was a terrorist attack thanks to Bushco and their culture of fear. Sure enough I overheard many people swearing that this must have been a terrorist attack. I was tempted to point out to them how asinine this was but figured that hopefully the truth would come out in the next few days as our news has been and I'm sure will be nothing but coverage about this (media sure loves a good disaster).

The other point I'd like to mention was that this was preventable. There was a good opinion piece in the Star Tribune which I'll quote part of here;

"The death bridge was "structurally deficient," we now learn, and had a rating of just 50 percent, the threshold for replacement. But no one appears to have erred on the side of public safety. The errors were all the other way."

and

"For half a dozen years, the motto of state government and particularly that of Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been No New Taxes. It's been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed. So much so that Pawlenty vetoed a 5-cent gas tax increase - the first in 20 years - last spring and millions were lost that might have gone to road repair. And yes, it would have fallen even if the gas tax had gone through, because we are years behind a dangerous curve when it comes to the replacement of infrastructure that everyone but wingnuts in coonskin caps agree is one of the basic duties of government."

Sounds good Goat, but do I need to brush up on my spanish?

Si. Lo se ayuda.
(yes, it helps)

A bit more of that piece;

"I'm not just pointing fingers at Pawlenty. The outrage here is not partisan. It is general.

Both political parties have tried to govern on the cheap, and both have dithered and dallied and spent public wealth on stadiums while scrimping on the basics.

How ironic is it that tonight's scheduled groundbreaking for a new Twins ballpark has been postponed? Even the stadium barkers realize it is in poor taste to celebrate the spending of half a billion on ballparks when your bridges are falling down. Perhaps this is a sign of shame. If so, it is welcome. Shame is overdue.

At the federal level, the parsimony is worse, and so is the negligence. A trillion spent in Iraq, while schools crumble, there aren't enough cops on the street and bridges decay while our leaders cross their fingers and ignore the rising chances of disaster.

And now, one has fallen, to our great sorrow, and people died losing a gamble they didn't even know they had taken. They believed someone was guarding the bridge."

CalifChris, That 5M post of your's should read:

"Bush asked Federal Highway Administrator J. Richard Capka and Transportation Secretary Mary Peters to go to Minneapolis, where she will announce a $5 million grant to help pay for rerouting traffic patterns around the disaster."

Re-routing traffic and re-building a Bridge are not quite the same thing.

"Goatman, can you still drink while driving, and carry a gun in Texas?"

No more open containers. Been like that for a few years. concealed guns by permit only. I believe you can still wear on on the hip unconcealed w/o permit, but I'm not sure.

Zat?

""Both political parties have tried to govern on the cheap, and both have dithered and dallied and spent public wealth on stadiums while scrimping on the basics.""

Hey, here in Florida they do the same things. I think it is absolutely disgusting to take taxpayer dollars and build sports stadiums for privately owned businesses, which professional teams are. Let the owners build their own places of business the same as the owners of any other businesses.

This is just Dubya's clumsy attempt to get the lard asses in Minnesota to start rowing to work.

I believe you can still wear on on the hip unconcealed w/o permit, but I'm not sure.

Zat?


Thats Arizona.

GOATMAN --

Correction -- that was for the year 1999, not 1998

WIS

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I'm one of the super rich. You know, someone who makes over 200K joint income. The state goverment are the ones picking my pockets, not the Federal Goveremnt. And the only saving grace is the fantastic ecomomy we have been enjoying.


I don't consider $200 k in the uber rich class.

I also agree with making the Alternative Minimum Tax cut permanent (as many people got caught up in that and no changes were made to account for today's economy) so getting rid of that tax is fine with me, even though it doesn't affect me at all.

It's the uber 10% richest in the nation (Bush and buddies) getting a permanent tax cut like Bush wants that I don't agree with -- especially since he is the one robbing us blind and keeping those tax cuts while slashing to the bone all programs and fundings needed by us here in the U.S.

What angers me the most about Bush isn't so much his taking back billions in his tax cuts for the uber rich as it is his arrogance and greed in wanting to get rid of and destroy social security, medicare, disability programs -- anything and everything that helps those Bush hates the most -- the American middle class.

Bush is a cocaine-addled/alkie who if it wasn't for being born with a billion dollar silver spoon in his mouth and his Daddy and Daddy's rich friends, would be absolutely nowhere today. Bush couldn't have kept a job in a pizzeria.

Yet, is Bush grateful for his own wealth that he never put in a penny of his own earnings? NO.

Instead of just being grateful for having plenty for himself, Bush is hell-bent on monetarily destroying the lives of others who must depend on social security (especially now that his free trade agenda has cost millions of American workers their jobs and their pensions), medicare, and other social programs.

I have never seen a man like him in my life. He is cutting back on medicare payments by 60% next year to hospitals and doctors so many will no longer be taking new medicare patients (EXACTLY what Bush wants) and wants to privatize social security in order to eventually destroy the program.

Bush and the Republicans pushed thru their stricter bankruptcy law which no longer allowed medical deductions to declare bankruptcy even though Bush's trade agreements were directly the cause of many formerly employed Americans no longer having health insurance and now are losing their homes because they have to pay hundreds of thousands in medical costs.

THOSE are some of the reasons I hate that guy.

WISGOD

"Bush asked Federal Highway Administrator J. Richard Capka and Transportation Secretary Mary Peters to go to Minneapolis, where she will announce a $5 million grant to help pay for rerouting traffic patterns around the disaster."

Re-routing traffic and re-building a Bridge are not quite the same thing.

Posted by wisgod at 2007-08-02 04:04 PM | Reply

Okay, then I'll change the wording in my post from "Bush to give $5 million towards $100 million plus cost of replacing Minnesota bridge" to:

"Bush to give NOTHING towards $100 million plus cost of replacing Minnesota bridge."

That better?

NETHER

Also Chris, I'm pretty sure it's time to throw in the towel on Mexifornia too. Sounds like we all need a new place to call home. Preferably one with no state income tax. Does anyone know if Wyoming is nice?

Wyoming probably would be nice if Cheney didn't make his home there.

Billy O_Reilly is always telling me to move to Idaho so when I can talk him into buying me a nice big ranch home there overlooking some nice lake, you can come live there too hahahaha

"In 1998 Clinton's fiscal year budget set aside $43.3 BILLION"

Thanks for doing half the research, CC. See, it is possible to come up with the truth without wild speculation.

Danni, did you take notes? You'd get a lot more respect and would come more believable if you came up with facts instead of parroting your party lines blindly and without thought.

"Bush to give NOTHING towards $100 million plus cost of replacing Minnesota bridge."

Posted by CalifChris

You assume Bush won't give anything to repair? Come on, I have more respect for you than that. Don't fall into the trap of hating him before the facts are known. Danni does enough of that for the both of you.

W is God-
re: You assume Bush won't give anything to repair?

"Give"? I think you mean "borrow"...

It amazes me that some people found a way to blame Bush for this. There is no doubt that Bush has done quite a few things wrong during his Presidency, but if you let your hatred for someone rule your thought process, it demonstrates a lack of intelligence. It also takes credibility away from any thing else that comes out of your mouth.

Like I said in another post, no one has ever accused a far left or far right idiot of coming up with an original thought, so all they can do is march to their respective party leaders' orders.

BAAAAAH, BAAAAAH

A trillion for Iraq -

Imagine that money used for OUR OWN COUNTRY!

"Imagine that money used for OUR OWN COUNTRY!"

If collected within the context of lower taxes and properly distributed to the corporations best suited for spending it wisely, that might not be such a bad idea.

But you really are erring here, not looking at the $1 trillion for the Global War on Terror as an investiment in a better future for our lady folk, little ones, and fighting dogs.

To CalifChris:

Are you sure the $3 billion that Bush cut would have gone to repair and upgrade this exact bridge in MN? Probably not, but you somehow try to connect the dots. Let me connect some dots in the same manner. Bill Clinton pulled billions in funding from our intellegence agencies during his Presidency and of course, we lost tons of resources as a result. Atta and company were taking flying lessons in FL during Clintons Presidency. If he didn't cut the funding, we would have surely caught Atta and his gang and prevented 9/11 all together. 9/11 cost this country trillions...so thanks for pointing out how it was all Clintons fault. I kind of like this new thought process...it makes determining blame so much easier.

But you really are erring here, not looking at the $1 trillion for the Global War on Terror as an investiment in a better future for our lady folk, little ones, and fighting dogs.

The one trillion is just for Iraq, which I fail to see is contributing to the "Global War on Terror" in any sense but in its contribution to the cause of terrorists.

Boa-
re: If collected within the context of lower taxes and properly distributed to the corporations best suited for spending it wisely, that might not be such a bad idea.

At least your honest about your depravity. I'll give you that.

"At least your honest about your depravity"

Boyd, what you call "depravity," most Americans would call The Free Market. It's the beacon that lights the world and lightens the burdens of millions upon millions of Americans. It's called The Free Market because those who participate in it at the highest levels don't have to pay anything to get into the game, other than some fees to the political class. But that's just overhead, a cost of doing business. It works pretty well, though, don't you think? Just look how well it works under the name of "outsourcing" in Iraq.

Not to worry. The infrastructure in this country is for the most part in great shape. I'm encourged that these bridges and such were built by the lowest bidder, aren't you?

Atta and company were taking flying lessons in FL during Clintons Presidency. If he didn't cut the funding, we would have surely caught Atta and his gang and prevented 9/11 all together. 9/11 cost this country trillions...so thanks for pointing out how it was all Clintons fault. I kind of like this new thought process...it makes determining blame so much easier.

Posted by ChiTownGuy at 2007-08-02 06:47 PM | Reply | Fla

hahahahahaha you have GOT to be kidding. Atta and the rest of the highjackers here illegally in our country on expired visas and Bush "Open Borders" Boy -- the prez under whom 60% of the 20 million illegal aliens now in this country came thru on his watch -- would have caught them if Clinton didn't cut intel funding? HAHAHAHAHA

Yes, intel funding was cut -- but that was pre-9/11 mindset plus it WAS REPORTED about by an FBI field office about those flying lessons but when reported to their central command they decided not to act on it.

I suppose it was "cut funding" under Clinton that sent a BRAND NEW RENEWED VISA TO STAY IN THE USA to one of the 9-11 hijackers six months AFTER the hijacker was DEAD?


PLEASE GET A LIFE, BUSHLOVERS. I'm no Clinton fan but stop blaming Clinton and others for the LAST EIGHT YEARS OF THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY.

YOUR GUY BUSH STINKS AND IS A TREASONOUS CROOK -- STOP DEFENDING HIM TO THE DEATH AND DEAL WITH IT.

"Atta and the rest of the highjackers here illegally in our country on expired visas "

Horse hockey.

Atta had a US Commercial Pilot's License.
That's difficult if you are here illegally.

He used to rent my Cessna 172.

Surly, arrogant asshole.

Zat

My error. That's right not all the hijackers were here illegally but a number of them had expired visas and most all had illegal drivers' licenses. I never knew Atta rented your Cessna! Did the FBI ever question you about it after 9-11?

"Did the FBI ever question you about it after 9-11?

Posted by CalifChris "

After?

Are you kidding?

No.



I tried to tell them back then.

They weren't interested.

CALIFCHRIS:

Obviously you just don't get it. My point in blaming Clinton for 9/11 has about as much relevance in blaming Bush for this bridge collapse, as you tried to do in earlier postings. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your thought process was in blaming Bush by using the same ridiculous thought process in blaming Clinton. Obviously you didnt get it and I guess I'm not too surprised. Then you single one piece of my comment and attack it. Your probably a fan of Michael Moore! I love how you throw out non-factual information as a defense. I will not argue with someone who uses emotion over fact. What's the point?

""Your probably a fan of Michael Moore!""

Your post almost sounded sane but then, out of no where....irrational hatred of Michael Moore.
Makes you look like a sheep, obedient to those who tell you what to think. Oh yeah, don't bother telling me you made up your own mind about MM, suuuure you did. Sad.

DANNI

You need to understand what you read a bit better. Please share with me where I mentioned that I hated Michael Moore? I think I stated to CALIFCHRIS that he is probably a fan of Michael Moore, so please do not put words in my mouth. I love that although you do not know anything about me, you know how I develop my opinions. You know that other people tell me how I should think. How insightful and all this from a small posting. Do you do palm readings and fortune telling as well.

I do not hate Michael Moore, I don't know the man, I am just not a fan of people who develop opinions and try to sway other peoples opinions by using twisted and destorted facts. Obviously he swayed your opinion...who's the real sheep DANNI?

CALIFCHRIS:

Obviously you just don't get it. My point in blaming Clinton for 9/11 has about as much relevance in blaming Bush for this bridge collapse, as you tried to do in earlier postings. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your thought process was in blaming Bush by using the same ridiculous thought process in blaming Clinton. Obviously you didnt get it and I guess I'm not too surprised. Then you single one piece of my comment and attack it. Your probably a fan of Michael Moore! I love how you throw out non-factual information as a defense. I will not argue with someone who uses emotion over fact. What's the point?

Posted by ChiTownGuy at 2007-08-03 10:21 AM | Reply

I love how you throw out non-factual information as a defense. I will not argue with someone who uses emotion over fact. What's the point?

I've researched and LINKED all my info and allegations, even linking you to the 1999 fiscal year budget to PROVE how Bush has cut back interstate highway fundings by the BILLIONS from what it was even back in 1999 under Clinton.
errrr, YOUR PROOF? YOUR LINKS that Bush didn't cut interstate highway funding, bridge repair funding ,etc. to the bone?
I PROVIDED MY LINKS -- where are yours? I'm still waiting.

My point in blaming Clinton for 9/11 has about as much relevance in blaming Bush for this bridge collapse, as you tried to do in earlier postings. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your thought process was in blaming Bush by using the same ridiculous thought process in blaming Clinton. Obviously you didnt get it and I guess I'm not too surprised.

errrr, yeah, sure you were. You meant every detailed word of your pathetic comparison and would have let it stand as fact except I shot it down so bad you now have to claim you were only making a parody.

probably a fan of Michael Moore!

Yes, I am. He makes very thought-provoking statements and is a talented film maker.

Personally, I'm more inclined to blame Mary E. Peters, the Secretary of Transportation. I could only bring myself to blame Bush if Peters turns out to be another cronyist, unaccomplished, unqualified appointment. I don't think some of you understand how deliniation works and its importance in large bodies, such as corporations and governments.

""I do not hate Michael Moore, I don't know the man, I am just not a fan of people who develop opinions and try to sway other peoples opinions by using twisted and destorted facts.""

OK, just give me a list of those "distorted facts."
Otherwise don't deny the obvious, you take your ideas from the right wing talking point masters who have instructed you on what to think about Michael Moore.
Did you see Farenheit 911??
Did you see Sicko??

List of distorted facts please.

Distorted facts?


How about the entire premise of "Roger and Me".


Moore starts with the end result and then works his way backward picking and choosing his 'evidence' to support his foregone conclusions.

""Moore starts with the end result and then works his way backward picking and choosing his 'evidence' to support his foregone conclusions.""

Moore has a position that he supports. He doesn't pretend to be unbiased. He isn't a "reporter" he is a film maker. He obviously supports national health care, he's quite open about it but his facts are still indisputable.
Facts are facts.

A new "friend" of mine went over the section that fell ~ 4 times the day before trying to make some money donating his plasma...He wasn't able to, but the next nite he was really happy finally having a new temp job making $7.25 an hour at a nearby temp service working as a janitor at Wayzata High School for a week or so...as the bridge by my High School (Minnehaha Academy Bible School) fell to its waterly bliss...nearby as I write here...

Life is good:>)

Later...

CALIFCHRIS

Obviously you have a lot of difficulty in understanding what you read. I never changed my position. In my initial posting I said if I were to connect the dots in the same manner that you did, then I could blame Clinton for 9/11.

So let me make this really easy for you to understand.

I agree Bush cut funding, but I asked you...are you sure the additional funding would have gone to repair this exact bridge in MN? You of course, never answered that question. So let me do it for you. The answer is NO, CALIFCHRIS is not sure the funding would have gone to repair this exact bridge. SEE HOW EASY THAT WAS.

Now comes the analogy (parody is the wrong word CALIFCHRIS). I am also not sure that even if Clinton didn't cut funding for intelligence that they could have stopped 9/11. So I am not blaming Clinton either.

HERE IS MY POINT. Blaming Bush for the bridge incident is as ridiculous as blaming Clinton for 9/11.

Danni,

Moore has a position that he supports. He doesn't pretend to be unbiased.

And hence Moore is a bad documentarian. Real documentaries are unbiased, educational, etc. I like to call Moore's work "video essays." They're worth watching, but it's important to realize that they do not give the audience the big picture.

A real documentarian could go to 1980s South Africa and make a piece on that society which does not judge apartheid. It would objectively give the audience the big picture regarding 1980s South African society, and it would be up to them to conclude that apartheid sucks.

Pleasantville, I don't care what Moore's films are referred to as but I do think they have helped millions of Americans see past the bull shit that the MSM fills their heads with. If American finally gets health care Michael Moore has helped that effort and he should be proud.

Also, I don't think I have ever seen an unbiased documentary. All film makers have a point of view.
Some news broadcasts used to be unbiased but even that was not true in the really technical sense of bias.

Your example of Apartheid is perfect, any showing of Apartheid would obviously show it in a bad light because it was evil but any supporter of Apartheid would still say that it was biased by not showing the "good side" of Apartheid.
Could you do an unbiased documentary on slavery???

HERE IS MY POINT. Blaming Bush for the bridge incident is as ridiculous as blaming Clinton for 9/11.


Posted by ChiTownGuy at 2007-08-03 02:33 PM |

What do you expect Chi? Hell Hildabeast came out after the power failure a few years ago and blamed Bush for squandering the surplus. Claiming that money could have been used to prevent the power outage. Of course she can't defend the obvious question of why her husband didn't use the suprplus and fix the grids if they were expected to fail. They blame Bush for the levees in NO not holding. Even though his Admin. had given more money than any other to the corrupt state of Louisiana and New Orleans. They somehow expect Bush to have neglected projects complete in a year when it takes 10 to fix. Not being a Bush apologist. But blaming him for the bridge collapse is pretty fucking lame.

DANNI

You should change your name to "Danni the defender of all that is Michael Moore". I did see 9/11, but did not see Sicko. I am not going to type out all of the 59 deceits in 9/11, however they are posted all over the net. Although Moore is a "filmaker", he presents his movie in a documentary fashion and states everything as fact, when he knows its not. If you want to believe that everything in his movie is fact, thats great. I don't DANNI THE DEFENDER. I try to be balanced. I like to know that my opinion is also based on facts. One day you will wake up and realize that Republicans and Democrats both lie. I know its hard to hear that about your beloved Dem's. Guess what? They both make lots of mistakes too. Someday, when your all grown up, you'll realize that its true.

""I am not going to type out all of the 59 deceits in 9/11""

That's good because MM answers every one of them and documents his answers on his web site and you'd look silly.

""One day you will wake up and realize that Republicans and Democrats both lie.""

Er...some of the biggest criticism of Sicko has come from Hillary supporters because he did make it clear that it was not a Dem/Rep. problem.

Update: Bush plans on cutting more billions for our roads and highways and bridges in this report only two weeks ago:

Report by:
American Traffic Safety Services Association (ATSSA)

Dated: July 12, 2007
"Budget forecast shows potential for large cuts in highway funding"


Today, the Bush administration released its mid-session budget review which updates the data included in the President's budget released in February. The budget estimate forecasted a $700 million Highway Trust Fund (HTF) shortfall in Fiscal Year (FY) 2009. Today's update increases the forecasted shortfall to more than $4 billion in FY 09.

Due to the spending rate in the HTF, Congress and the President will need to find additional revenues to plug the $4 billion hole or cut highway funding for FY 09 by an estimated $16 billion. The cuts in FY 2009 from the promised level of $43.4 billion to about $27 billion, would result in a 37% reduction in spending on U.S. infrastructure.

The dramatic reduction in funding would impact every state in the country because the highway program is financed by gas tax revenues that are deposited into the HTF. If the deficit is not patched, it is estimated that in 2009, California will lose $1.35 billion, Florida would lose nearly $673 million, New York would lose approximately $634 million and Texas will lose more than $1.1 billion.

The mid-session review also increased the forecast shortfall to $9 billion in 2010 and $15 billion in 2011. Those amounts will also require significant reductions in spending if Congress and the administration cannot agree on methods to fix the funding gap. Transit funding will also be impacted long term, because it is also funded primarily by the HTF.

The budget news comes at a critical juncture for the highway program, and federal, state and local governments will all feel the pinch. AGC has been working with its allies in the State DOTs on solutions to fix the problem and has presented a menu of ideas to both the Bush administration and Congress.

errrr, we're spending a billion $$$$$$$$$ PER WEEK in Iraq for Bush's illegal war and Bush warns that if Congress doesn't give him a blank check authorizing the billions$$$ demanded for his war -- Bush will veto the entire spending bil. Bush also DEMANDS that there be no "accountability to Congress for spending itemization" clause attached to the bill -- just give him the billions -- no questions asked.

And now Bush wants another war in Iran. Bush can't even pay for the illegal war he started in Iraq without bankrupting our nation and he wants MORE WAR!!!!

Not that I am for or against the IRAQ war, obviously tons of mistakes were made, however I am interested to know why some people call it "illegal". I know Annan of the UN called it illegal, but thats just because he and his son were
making under the table deals with Iraq undermining the oil for food program. Can anyone with real insight explain the "illegal" part.

"Yes, I am. He makes very thought-provoking statements and is a talented film maker. "

MM is thought provoking all right. He makes me think how lopsided and agenda driven he is.

Now if he wanted to make a truly thought provoking documentary, he'd show both sides for a change, not just the one he wants to force feed you. (and unbelievably you swallow)

"Also, I don't think I have ever seen an unbiased documentary."

Go see Supersize me. It's unbiased. He consults three doctors, has a full physical, states what he will do, and does it. Goes back to the same doctors has his tests, THEN and only then makes his points.

MM makes his points, then cherry picks his interviewees to fit his agenda. for example, did he interview any canadians who come to America for health care? Did he interview other cubans to confirm they got the same health care? How 'bout Brits who are generally unhappy with their system?

(and unbelievably you swallow)

Is it salty?

Now if he wanted to make a truly thought provoking documentary, he'd show both sides for a change

"He'd be Fair and Balanced", in other words?

MM makes the points he wants to make and doesn't pretend not to have a viewpoint. Wot's MM's agenda, by the way? Other than to be buried in the box the piano came in, apparently (Sorry, cheap shot). He wants to see an end to for profit healthcare and break the stranglehold the Insurance Lobbyists seem to have on DC. Wots wrong with that? His bias may be obvious but more often than not the guy is right.

Be Well.