Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, July 24, 2007

The American military command in Iraq has prepared a classified plan that foresees a significant role in the country for the next two years, setting as a goal "sustainable security" for all of Iraq by summer 2009.

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The plan envisions two phases. The "near-term" goal is to achieve "localized security" in Baghdad and other areas no later than June 2008. It envisions encouraging political accommodations at the local level, including with former insurgents, while pressing Iraq's leaders to make headway on their program of national reconciliation.

The "intermediate" goal is to stitch together such local arrangements to establish a broader sense of security on a nationwide basis no later than June 2009.

"The coalition, in partnership with the government of Iraq, employs integrated political, security, economic and diplomatic means, to help the people of Iraq achieve sustainable security by the summer of 2009," a summary of the campaign plan states.

Military officials here have been careful not to guarantee success, and recognized they may need to revise the plan if some assumptions were not met.

"The idea behind the surge was to bring stability and security to the Iraqi people, primarily in Baghdad because it is the political heart of the country, and by so doing give the Iraqis the time and space needed to come to grips with the tough issues they face and enable reconciliation to take place," said Col. Peter Mansoor, the executive officer to General Petraeus.

"If eventually the Iraqi government and the various sects and groups do not come to some sort of agreement on how to share power, on how to divide resources and on how to reconcile and stop the violence, then the assumption on which the surge strategy was based is invalid, and we would have to re-look the strategy," Colonel Mansoor added.

General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker will provide an assessment in September on trends in Iraq and whether the strategy is viable or needs to be changed.

The previous plan, developed by Gen. George W. Casey Jr., who served as General Petraeus's predecessor before being appointed as chief of staff of the Army, was aimed at prompting the Iraqis to take more responsibility for security by reducing American forces.

That approach faltered when the Iraqi security forces showed themselves unprepared to carry out their expanded duties, and sectarian killings soared.

In contrast, the new approach reflects the counterinsurgency precept that protection of the population is best way to isolate insurgents, encourage political accommodations and gain intelligence on numerous threats. A core assumption of the plan is that American troops cannot impose a military solution, but that the United States can use force to create the conditions in which political reconciliation is possible.

To develop the plan, General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker assembled a Joint Strategic Assessment Team, which sought to define the conflict and outline the elements of a new strategy. It included officers like Col. H. R. McMaster, the field commander who carried out the successful "clear, hold and build" operation in Tal Afar and who wrote a critical account of the Joint Chiefs of Staff role during the Vietnam War; Col. John R. Martin, who teaches at the Army War College and was a West Point classmate of General Petraeus; and David Kilcullen, an Australian counterinsurgency expert who has a degree in anthropology.

State Department officials, including Robert Ford, an Arab expert and the American ambassador to Algeria, were also involved. So were a British officer and experts outside government like Stephen D. Biddle, a military expert at the Council on Foreign Relations.

The team determined that Iraq was in a "communal struggle for power," in the words of one senior officer who participated in the effort. Adding to the problem, the new Iraqi government was struggling to unite its disparate factions and to develop the capability to deliver basic services and provide security.

Extremists were fueling the violence, as were nations like Iran, which they concluded was arming and equipping Shiite militant groups, and Syria, which was allowing suicide bombers to cross into Iraq.

Like the Baker-Hamilton commission, which issued its report last year, the team believed that political, military and economic efforts were needed, including diplomatic discussions with Iran, officials said. There were different views about how aggressive to be in pressing for the removal of overtly sectarian officials, and several officials said that theme was toned down somewhat in the final plan.

The plan itself was written by the Joint Campaign Redesign Team, an allusion to the fact that the plan inherited from General Casey was being reworked. Much of the redesign has already been put into effect, including the decision to move troops out of large bases and to act as partners more fully with the Iraqi security forces.

The overarching goal, an American official said, is to advance political accommodation and avoid undercutting the authority of the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki. While the plan seeks to achieve stability, several officials said it anticipates that less will be accomplished in terms of national reconciliation by the end of 2009 than did the plan developed by General Casey.

The plan also emphasizes encouraging political accommodation at the local level. The command has established a team to oversee efforts to reach out to former insurgents and tribal leaders. It is dubbed the Force Strategic Engagement Cell, and is overseen by a British general. In the terminology of the plan, the aim is to identify potentially "reconcilable" groups and encourage them to move away from violence.

However, groups like Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, a Sunni Arab extremist group that American intelligence officials say has foreign leadership, and cells backed by Iran are seen as implacable foes.

"You are not out there trying to defeat your enemies wholesale," said one military official who is knowledgeable about the plan. "You are out there trying to draw them into a negotiated power-sharing agreement where they decide to quit fighting you. They don't decide that their conflict is over. The reasons for conflict remain, but they quit trying to address it through violence. In the end, we hope that that alliance of convenience to fight with Al Qaeda becomes a connection to the central government as well."

The hope is that sufficient progress might be made at the local level to encourage accommodation at the national level, and vice versa. The plan also calls for efforts to encourage the rule of law, such as the establishment of secure zones in Baghdad and other cities to promote criminal trials and process detainee cases.

To help measure progress in tamping down civil strife, Col. William Rapp, a senior aide to General Petraeus, oversaw an effort to develop a standardized measure of sectarian violence. One result was a method that went beyond the attacks noted in American military reports and which incorporated Iraqi data.

"We are going to try a dozen different things," said one senior officer. "Maybe one of them will flatline. One of them will do this much. One of them will do this much more. After a while, we believe there is chance you will head into success. I am not saying that we are absolutely headed for success."

I guess Lokisfur aka Bowa is sure befuddled by this Prediction

You just hate the fact that the insurgency is in its death throes, the civil war is yesterday's news already, the new iraq governemnt should be up-n-running in 6-8 weeks and our soldiers are on the brink of coming home.



Posted by lokisfur at 2006-04-27 04:03 PM


NOTICE THE DATE OF HIS POSTING PEOPLE APRIL 27TH 2006 AMAZING

Larry

Thanks for tossing that one in, Larry. It never quite loses its piquancy.

They use an awful lot of qualifiers just to say it's all one big "crap shoot."

LARRY:

Didn't Lokisfur say (around the same time) that he'd bought into a vacation Timeshare in beautiful downtown Baghdad?

Gee, I wonder how that worked out.

I don't know TwinPac. I will have to search My Desktop to see. I did not know that Google desktop saved 2 Year old posts from the Drudge but I have found Many of Lokisfur's through Google desktop. I was amazed. Let Me see what I can dig up.

Larry

Damn, Larry! What is it with you and this Lokisfur thing??? This guy must have REALLY peed in your cereal or something. Question: Do you hate him more than you hate Bush??? More than Cheney??? You might consider seeing a professional about this anger and hatred you display, Larry.

Plan: US in Iraq Until At Least 09

This is good news!

Now we won't have to listen to all the libscum traitors piss and moan until the next review of the situation...in 2009.

Yrs,
Das Recht

Damn, Larry! What is it with you and this Lokisfur thing??? This guy must have REALLY peed in your cereal or something. Question: Do you hate him more than you hate Bush??? More than Cheney??? You might consider seeing a professional about this anger and hatred you display, Larry.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2007-07-24 08:12 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Oh I HATE a fraud I really do. Not as much as Dubya and Cheney but pretty damned close.

Larry

"Oh I HATE a fraud I really do."

Tsk, tsk...and I thought you and your little friends were AGAINST hate. Isn't it somewhat hypocritical to speak out against "hate" speech, "hate" crimes and all that "hate" stuff while being such a "hater" yourself?

No wonder Under Sec. of Def. Edelman made such an ass of himself when Hillary asked them if they had planned for withdrawl. Obviously, they have no intention of listening to the American people and believe they can remain in Iraq as long as the neocons want.

danni, you mean the same hillary that voted for the war and used it as a ra-ra beginning to her campaign? you mean the same hillary that never asked that critical question before the war?

jest, don't ya know? its only pertinant when NON-liberals are hating someone.

biden was the only one last night that had a realistic idea of iraq.

"Cannot leave, must control oil, $100/barrel is a good thing, stupid Americans must pay so I can subsidize big oil and win", parrots Bush. "Dump injured GIs, Social Security, Pensions, Health Care, Public Schools, Public Utilities, Equal Justice, SEC and Capital Gains Taxes. Subsidize professional Sports, Big Oil-Pharma-CorpFarms-
Insurance-Bechtel-Haliburton-
Blackwater-etc, etc, etc........ Americans are too busy watching TV to notice.

Should be interesting, given that 40 % of the Iraqi stander-uppers have sat down in the last 6 months.
Two years= last 16 month throes of the Bushies and 8 months to get the hell out.
Also another quarter trillion borrowed from China and about 2000 more KIA.
As the Bushies here would say, well worth it if it helps GWB believe he's not to blame.

Twin: Loki left shortly thereafter to get a good seat for the Bagdhdad Kumbaya Festival and Bush Victory Parade I believe he either went into a diabetic coma from eating all the chocolate the Iraqis were giving him or had a fatal allergic reaction to the rose petals.

2 more years?

Sounds about right considering the exit can't start until the next president's term starts.

Should only cost maybe a thousand more lives and $288 billion or so. Small price to pay compared to our president having to admit he's made a mistake.

Didn't they say this exact same thing about 2.5 yrs ago?

Didn't they say this exact same thing about 2.5 yrs ago?

What's five or six or ten Krauthammers between friends?
Or as Maxwell smart would say, "Missed it by that much".

NORTHGUY:

Well I heard Lokisfur went broke trying to sell "I Love Bush" t-shirts to Iraqis.

Given the Neocon mindset the military has no other option. Hands off of our three grandsons you (Neocon) motherfuckers.

Well I heard Lokisfur went broke trying to sell "I Love Bush" t-shirts to Iraqis.

Posted by Twinpac at 2007-07-24 11:46 AM | Reply

OMFG ROFLMMFAO I done spilt My iced tea all over everywhere Thanks to You. That was Hilarious.

Larry

"Damn, Larry! What is it with you and this Lokisfur thing??? This guy must have REALLY peed in your cereal or something. Question: Do you hate him more than you hate Bush??? More than Cheney??? You might consider seeing a professional about this anger and hatred you display, Larry.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2007-07-24 08:12 AM"

JGA has his panties in a bunch because he's worried he's going to be the next Lokisfur clown around here.

""danni, you mean the same hillary that voted for the war and used it as a ra-ra beginning to her campaign? you mean the same hillary that never asked that critical question before the war?""

Yes Yodar, that Hillary, who I have said, many times here, is not my favorite candidate though I would vote for her over any of the Republicans....especially Thompson.

LARRY,

Yes, I know but it's a true story.

Lokisfur was so broke he tried to take a Greyhound bus back to New York.

But it sank. R.I.P. Loki. We all miss you very much. Or, maybe not.

Well I heard Lokisfur went broke trying to sell "I Love Bush" t-shirts to Iraqis.

LZK got the Fallujah franchise. Wonder how that turned out....

For the record, I think LZK loved a little bush too.

u guys are about as funny as cancer.

It sounds like the decision is already made so WHY hasn't anyone pointed out the hypocracy of Bush insisting on waiting until September for Petraeus' report? He is just dragging this out for the next administration.

It's time folks. If we aren't well on our way out of Iraq by next April it's time for a little civil disobedience. As American citizens we should refuse to pay for the war that Bush and the RNC jerks built.

One can always refuse to pay taxes until there is regime change in the USA of NRA.

I cannot believe anybody has not heard of nor seen the PLANS for the NEW U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. A brand new $350,000,000 facility that is at least 8 football fields in size is being built. Now, can this be happening without the knowledge of BOTH political parties or what???

Additionally, a U.S. military base North of Baghdad is also in the works, something on the order of Ramstein is Germany.

Folks, please get off of the stupid trail and face reality for once. When is everybody going to wake up and understand reality??? We are NEVER going to leave Iraq any more than we ever had the intention to leave South Korea, Japan, Germany or any other strategic outpost.

Better spend your energy and anger on something you can assist in rather than spouting off on non starters such as Cindy Sheehan is currently doing, or all the others who are not paying attention but are busy running off at the mouth. Two and Two equals Four folks and Pelosi and all the other politicians, Republican and Democrats alike, understand the situation.

Why do you think Hillary answers the way she does? She knows and so do ALL other politicians. They answer the way they do to get VOTES people, PERIOD.

Now, the only thing that will stop this and actually get us out of Iraq, a stupid idea from my point of view, is Congress ACTUALLY cutting off funding. Problem is funding bills all must begin in the House and it is doubtful these Representatives have the GUTS to do it. Reason, cutting off Iraq funding simply will not wash with the American MAJORITY. (Right now only the fringes would support that idea or actuality.)

Reality is reality people. Let's get real.

Only 2 more years? Why not make it an even 2,000?

Reznwerks (yeah, but the headaches!) says, "It sounds like the decision is already made so WHY hasn't anyone pointed out the hypocracy of Bush insisting on waiting until September for Petraeus' report? He is just dragging this out for the next administration.

Wow! All the way down from top to rezn before getting something actually, kinda, sorta addressing the point. All those political munchies are fattening the left's collective head!

The "hypocracy[sic]" is with the Democratics, and since they won't even wait until then to demand America turn-tail-and-run, and forcing all our allies to share in our national cowardice in the face of the practice of human sacrifice to Allah. It is their stated goal to make Islam the theocratic ruler of the entire world; justice will be Sharia, their sheepherder's laws; and, along with the extermination of an entire race of peoples.

In reality, what this submission emphasizes (thanks DB), is that the USA does have plans, our military is focused on creating the foundations for peace and the freedom the planned security will provide for the millions of Iraqis who hate the violence and desire its end; as all of you would were you in their place.

Would you want the cavalry to retreat and leave you as the wall between the enemy and them? That's what the Democratic party is demanding be done to the Iraqis, none of you can even begin to admit is just as human as you are, and afraid that somehow the faithless Democratics will cause them to face tyranny and the rule of those who practice human sacrifice, another 'Saddam', again . . .

Shame on all of you who do this, support terrorism in this way.

please notice the first three words of the post...

'the classified plan'........so how did this make it to the drudge retort?
did rcade get into a room somewhere and stuff the paper down his pants and then tell the police that he didnt know how it got there...........


and look at the bitching about the military planning ahead......and if there were NO PLAN they would bitch about them NOT planning ahead.

and danni.......the thing with pantsuits and the pentagon........maybe those plans are classified too and at least the pentagon has a problem with letting the entire world in on our war plans..

side bar.......woof.....ann margaret is on circa 1975......oh my....what a woman!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think either party is going to give up a foothold in the middle east you are nuts. The dems want the jew vote and everyone wants the oil to flow to the free world. Pull your heads out of the sand and look at reality.

The "hypocracy[sic]" is with the Democratics, and since they won't even wait until then to demand America turn-tail-and-run, and forcing all our allies to share in our national cowardice in the face of the practice of human sacrifice to Allah. It is their stated goal to make Islam the theocratic ruler of the entire world; justice will be Sharia, their sheepherder's laws; and, along with the extermination of an entire race of peoples.
Posted by tadowe
========
Tad: The democrats did not instigate this war Bush did.Bush did it because he thought GAAAAWWWDDDD was telling him to do it.
Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ... " And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

It's you Republicans listenting to voices in your head and watching John Wayne movies that keeps our young men and women dying in Iraq. You republicans are so hyporcritical its laughable. Without Rush Limbaugh giving you marching orders and talking points you don't know what to do. Republicans claim to be pro life until it comes time to sending someone elses sons and daughters into harms way. Tell that to Rush! More people both military and civilians have died as the result of our bravado than ever would have died under the regime of Saddam and more will die the future and for what? Oil? Yea we need it but we've had since the early 70's to wean ourselves off it and haven't. Our men and women may as well wear SUNOCO and EXXON patches on their sleeves because they sure aren't fighting for our freedom.They fight for corporations and greedy politicians. Our country was attacked because the citizens in Iraq and the middle east consider us as imperialists whether that be accurate or not in not the issue. They don't want us there and we should bite the bullet become energy independent and if you want to end terrorism choke them off economically. Let them decide how they want to live.

When Ann Margaret came to Vietnam the first time, she was naturally the biggest hit of the show, and although all of them were great and made us feel like America cared.

One of the photographers got a picture of her in black and white, and where the camera had caught the right angle and the right timing to show a shadowing outline of her crotch through her tights, and which made it appear as if she was naked from the waist down. The photo was an instant hit and got wide, by-hand/unofficial distribution.

On the next visit of Bob and Ann Margaret, she wore an even more flash transparent body sock and ground it out for the troops all across the front of the stage. The response was deafening and it was like continuous thunder and lightning with all the flashes and shouts, and everyone knew that Ann knew about the previous photos.

Wow! My favorite star of all time!

"Shame on all of you who do this, support terrorism in this way."

If Tadley ever decides to stop denigrating people who disagree on policy as traitors and scum, he may one day be taken seriously.

Don't hold your breath.

Of course, policy that hands the enemy his stated, most desired wet dream, an invading, occupying infidel Amy on Muslim soil, is about as sane as Tad's posts.

tad.....got a copy of that pic?..

of course todays punks with their skinny tattoedup "ho's" wont appreciate women of our age like ann or raquel......ooooohhhhhh I think it just moved as I typed that name......

okay......well enough of that ...back to the subject........

What moved??? Your Bowels BLT.

Larry

Corky Taddy Boy is a Bloviator. His posts never change. Hell I went back a Year and a half and it was like reading Him today. He is an old man with a cratchety mind.

Larry

Rez says, "Tad: The democrats did not instigate this war Bush did.Bush did it because he thought GAAAAWWWDDDD was telling him to do it."

See? You can't discuss the issue reasonably. Instead, you blame Bush for Saddam's intransigence, and pretend that Clinton did not use the exact same reasoning to attack Iraq in his 2 air wars to bring Saddam to obediance. Save the Clinton didn't invade excuse, Saddam es muerte.

"Nabil Shaath says ..."

You believe in the Koran, don't you? Right?

Again, the hypocrites are the Leftists/Democratics because they support going to war for the same reasons Bush has, but you only permit it when it is a Democratic who does so. When it is a Republican which must make that choice, you revile them and sow hatred and fear of them; calling them every vile name possible -- then whine like yellow-bellied-cowards when referred to in the same way.

You have no reason, whatsoever, only emotional regurgitations of lying propaganda fed to you. You can't answer to the points; e.g., that you underscore that this war IS (any definition) planned to the Nth degree and has been from the start: the gang party's first effort in trying to lose this war, "Bush doesn't have a plan." And then, out the other, nether orifice, "Bush doesn't have a plan B!"

Hypocrites from the very start of your efforts to subvert this war into a failure, so that your gang of anti-patriotic trash can profit from the war, as you destroy America's honor to do so. . . the same actions practiced by the Islamic enemy trying to kill our citizen soldiers right now, this instant.

Scum trash, aiding Islamic human sacrifice and demands for genocide!


I see the straps on the tight white jacket are coming loose again.

"Medic!"

"okay......well enough of that ...back to the subject........"

You #1 funny, GI.

I did a quick search and found this photo:

These look like the tights from the first photo

And this story proves her superiority as a star:

Ann Margaret and the Vietnam Veteran

... a story about a Vietnam Veteran and Ann Margaret which is written by the vet's wife.

Richard, (my husband), never really talked a lot about his time in Viet Nam other than he had been shot by a sniper.

However, he had a rather grainy, 8 x 10 black & white photo he had taken at a USO show of Ann Margaret with Bob Hope in the background, that was one of his treasures.

A few years ago, Ann Margaret was doing a book signing at a local bookstore. Richard wanted to see if he could get her to sign the treasured photo so he arrived at the bookstore at 12 o'clock for the 7:30 signing.

When I got there after work, the line went all the way around the bookstore, circled the parking lot, and disappeared behind a parking garage. Before her appearance, bookstore employees announced that she would sign only her book and no memorabilia would be permitted. Richard was disappointed, but wanted to show her the photo and let her know how much those shows meant to lonely GI's so far from home.

Ann Margaret came out looking as beautiful as ever and, as 2nd in line, it was soon Richard's turn. He presented the book for her signature and then took out the photo. When he did, there were many shouts from the employees, that she would not sign it. Richard said, "I understand. I just wanted her to see it."

She took one look at the photo, tears welled up in her eyes and she said, "This is one of my gentlemen from Vietnam and I most certainly will sign his photo. I know what these men did for their country and I always have time for "my gentlemen".

With that, she pulled Richard across the table and planted a big kiss on him. She then made quite a to do about the bravery of the young men she met over the years, how much she admired them, and how much she appreciated them.

There weren't too many dry eyes among those close enough to hear. She then posed for pictures and acted as if he was the only one there.

Later, at dinner, Richard was very quiet. When I asked if he'd like to talk about it, my big strong husband broke down in tears. "That's the first time anyone ever thanked me for my time in the Army", he said. That night was a turning point for him. He walked a little straighter and, for the first time in years, was proud to have been a Vet.

I'll never forget Ann Margaret for her graciousness and how much that small act of kindness meant to my husband. I now make it a point to say "Thank You" to every person I come across who served in our Armed Forces.

""Save the Clinton didn't invade excuse, Saddam es muerte.""

Hundreds of billions of dollars and 3700 soldiers lives later and you are saying "save the Clinton didn't invade excuse????

Why, it isn't our fault that Clinton could take advice from Daddy Bush. All Dumbya had to do was read Daddy's autobiography. That pretty much eliminates any possible excuse for Dumbya. He was warned. He went ahead anyway. This disaster is on his head, no one elses...well, except Cheney, Rummy, Rice, Powell (YES POWELL!), etc.
Oh, and you too Taddy.

Danni says, "Why, it isn't our fault that Clinton could take advice from Daddy Bush."

I like this one. I suppose you mean that Bush Sr. didn't invade, either, and that that is the lesson of the advice.

However, I doubt it, and because Bush Sr. was there under the mandate of the UN, not an military action he was ultimately in command of. If he had overstepped the UN mandate, the world would have called him the neo-Hitler, and you know it.

Indeed, neither could have Clinton because he was already desperate to salvage his image, and wouldn't have taken the chance of be a villain to the world; rather than the hillbilly 'Lil Abner idea of what "macho" means.

With his locks done up in Hollywood brilliance, Clinton didn't need any advice about his image, that's for certain.

That's a cool story, Tad.

Thanks for sharing it.

Thanks, Jeff. America's stars, for the most part, just don't have the class that helped work to make this country great.

Now, to them, we're an evil that must be stopped -- they hold their own nation as the criminal responsible for the world's troubles. They bask in luxury, and point their selfish fingers at others for depriving the rest of the world; making them poor; repressing their freedoms.

Those who don't hold those views? Reviled and denied a living in their professions associated with the industry.

Who is going to Iraq?
Here's a 2006 schedule and these people are all Hollywood stars to me.

From what I can discover, there aren't too many actual Hollywood stars going, at all. Too busy making 10 million a film (but they aren't the filthy rich you mean, right?) I guess, and after all, entertain fascist mercenaries?

Al Franken, bless his heart, has hosted shows, and he's one candidate I might trust to maintain some integrity if he should win in Min.. Hope he doesn't react as did Sonny Bono when he sat on the Branch Davidian massacre investigation. If Al should find out anything that disgusts him, and reacts in the same way, he might end up running into a tree and killing himself while skiing in a snowstorm.

Thanks, Jeff. America's stars, for the most part, just don't have the class that helped work to make this country great.
posted by Tadow
--------
Tad: the people that made this country great were blue staters. Check it out.
---------------


Now, to them, we're an evil that must be stopped -- they hold their own nation as the criminal responsible for the world's troubles. They bask in luxury, and point their selfish fingers at others for depriving the rest of the world; making them poor; repressing their freedoms.
--------------
Tad: Really? What president has just about put martial law into action. What president is spying without warrants and doing wiretaps without a court order?
You talk about luxury and selfish points of view. What Republican senator or congressman has children in Iraq? Why is Haliburton the only company doing business over there? I suppose Cheney had significant relations with them in the past doesn't raise any eyebrows. If its greed and underhandedness you want you need look no further than the conservatives. Go give that drum beater of war Limbaugh a question and ask him why is he so eager to do the republicans bidding in war when he himself somehow didn't serve.
------------------

Who is going to Iraq? Here's a 2006 schedule and these people are all Hollywood stars to me.

From what I can discover, there aren't too many actual Hollywood stars going, at all. Too busy making 10 million a film (but they aren't the filthy rich you mean, right?) I guess, and after all, entertain fascist mercenaries?
------------------------
Don't worry about the hollywood stars not going to Iraq the real issue is the conservatives who never served in the military aren't going either. Let them put their feet where their mouth is and that is Iraq. These conservatives are truly brave men who fight with other peoples family. One word for you Tad, gutless.
-----------------------

Al Franken, bless his heart, has hosted shows, and he's one candidate I might trust to maintain some integrity if he should win in Min.. Hope he doesn't react as did Sonny Bono when he sat on the Branch Davidian massacre investigation.
--------------------
Tad you need to do some homework. Sonny was a republican and typical of turning a blind eye to problems.
-----------------------
If Al should find out anything that disgusts him, and reacts in the same way, he might end up running into a tree and killing himself while skiing in a snowstorm.

Posted by tadowe
-------------
Well at least it is better to end up killing oneself than almost killing someone else because of drinking while hunting. Can you say Cheney?

Here you go, Moom, an example of the effort to belittle and revile everything said to them.

I said, "Thanks, Jeff. America's stars [today], for the most part, just don't have the class that helped work to make this country great."

Rezn claims, "Tad: the people that made this country great were blue staters. Check it out."

I started with Ann Margaret, first, since she was the subject and found she came from Sweden. So, I flashed to the idea that if you have class, it isn't from where you were born, or reside. Then, I wondered what kind of idiot you were!?!

After chewing that over a moment, I decided that you were one not worth responding to on subject, any more than this ...

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