John 11:35

Protestant churches yesterday reacted with dismay to a new declaration approved by Pope Benedict XVI insisting they were mere "ecclesial communities" and their ministers effectively phonies with no right to give communion.

Now we will hear from people on the Retort saying how dare the pope say this and then in the next breath say the pope and all religion is phony.

Cheers

ANY church that calls itself the only true church isn't.

One wonders, quite cynically of course, if this pope will be bringing back the indulgences and other former church policies that caused the protestant split to begin with.

Now we will hear from people on the Retort saying how dare the pope say this and then in the next breath say the pope and all religion is phony.-Grendel

No, you will hear that the Pope can say whatever he wants to say about anything whatsoever, though why anybody pays attention to that publicity seeking queen is anybody's guess, and that all religion is myth.

Phony isn't a word I'd use. Ridiculous is.

"if this pope will be bringing back the indulgences and other former church policies"

They never actually went away - they just became a little more subtle. How do you think people like the Kennedy's get annulments after 20+ years of marriage?

SA

Are you trying to be more cynical than I, lol?

John 11:35

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-07-11 12:52 PM | Reply


yep the old "Jesus Wept"

followed by John 11:36 "Jesus Dabbed his eyes with a rag."

Followed by John 11:37 "And the disciples did proclaim 'Jesus is a girlie man, Jesus is a girlie man'"

Followed by John 11:38 "and lo did John smite down Thomas with genital herpes for taunting him."

Followed by John 11:39 "And Jesus said unto his followers 'Man do I have to cop a deuce'" Whereby Jesus pinched a holy shit.

Well, at least they've retracted their excommunication of Galileo.

$$$$$$$$ Sanantoniorogue

Give, and ye shall receive.

dag! not John, Jesus did the smiting!

ratzi the nazi strikes again!

Audrey Lee Hepburn
strikes again.

"Well, at least they've retracted their excommunication of Galileo.

Posted by TurnLeftb42late"

At the rate this guy is reversing advances made by the Catholic Church, I wouldn't count on THAT for long

Corky,

What's that supposed to mean?

One wonders, quite cynically of course, if this pope will be bringing back the indulgences

Posted by Corky at 2007-07-11 12:57 PM | Reply

It is a common misconception that the RC Church "did away" with indulgences, purgatory, et al, at some point.

Not true.

Signed,

Defective Orthodox Christian

How do you think people like the Kennedy's get annulments after 20+ years of marriage?

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-07-11 01:02 PM | Reply

Good point. But, did you see that the Vatican recently rescinded the annullment in the Kennedy case (about 12 years after the diocese granted it, I think).

How do you think people like the Kennedy's get annulments after 20+ years of marriage?

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-07-11 01:02 PM | Reply

Good point. But, did you see that the Vatican recently rescinded the annullment in the Kennedy case (about 12 years after the diocese granted it, I think).

Whoops.

Lee,

I was giving you credit for Audrey among your many other accomplishments. No?

"Good point. But, did you see that the Vatican recently rescinded the annullment in the Kennedy case (about 12 years after the diocese granted it, I think)."

Yes. So I'm guessing His Holiness didn't buy the "check is in the mail" dodge they tried.

Corky,

Audrey ain't me. I've messed about with names due to my ADHD.

On topic, Popes are loopy.

The Pope, who wears a fabulous vintage chiffon-lined Dior gold lam gown over a silk Vera Wang empire-waist tulle cocktail dress, accessorized with a 3-foot beaded peaked House of Whoville hat and the ruby slippers Judy Garland wore in The Wizard of Oz -- is worried that "The Da Vinci Code" might make the Roman Catholic church look foolish.

I have no problem with a religion, any religion, that thinks they have/are the only true way. In fact I am disappointed in religious leaders who don't admit that they believe they are right and all other religions are wrong.

At the same time these religious leaders must accept that others do not believe as they do. They must also teach their adherents to accept others lack of belief.

Who cares if others are mistaken in their beliefs. One need not accept the beliefs of others. One must only accept the fact that others are entitled to those beliefs.

In my opinion they are all wrong.

So the Pope's chief of staff rushes in to the Papal chambers and exclaims "Holiness, I have good news and I have bad news. Which do you want first?"

Benedict says "Give me the good news first."

So the priest says "Our Lord Jesus Christ is returning to earth tomorrow."

"That's wonderful news!" Benedict cries. "What could be the bad news."

"We're supposed to meet Him in Salt Lake City."

Benny is God on Earth, he can say whatever he wants.

Cowboy -

What if the path to reach salvation and spirituality is like climbing a mountain with that goal at the pinnacle?

What if each of us is struggling and working our way up a different side of the mountain trying to achieve that goal?

We each know the others are there, but we can't see them and don't know what obstacles and trials they face in following their path.

What if there really is no right or wrong path as long as you are continuously striving to reach that goal?

""The Pope, who wears a fabulous vintage chiffon-lined Dior gold lam gown over a silk Vera Wang empire-waist tulle cocktail dress, accessorized with a 3-foot beaded peaked House of Whoville hat and the ruby slippers Judy Garland wore in The Wizard of Oz -- is worried that "The Da Vinci Code" might make the Roman Catholic church look foolish.""

FF for Lee Atwater

Christ died owning nothing.

The Catholic church is fabulously wealthy.

Just the art works, property not to mention silver and gold "stuff".

Just who exactly does the Catholic church represent?

If used for the good of mankind, what would this enormous sum be able to accomplish?

Let me guess-they're holding it for Christ's return. It is actually banked in the name of god.

what would this enormous sum be able to accomplish?

it is used to relocate child molesting gay priests...

And to pay court costs...

If used for the good of mankind, what would this enormous sum be able to accomplish?

Posted by keith204 at 2007-07-11 03:19 PM | Reply

Who knows? Perhaps there would be enough dough there to buy everyone on earth a Quarter Pounder with Cheese -- Not a bad way to drop a few trillion.

The Pope is just being honest. There was a reason for the Reformation.

His comments didn't surprise me at all. Of course he thinks his organization is the only way. Why else would he be head of it? Otherwise, he could be head of the one-world club or something.

I happen to think evangelical Christianity is the only true faith, and I'd say it to the Pope without apology.

Well Marie3 you may be a perfectly nice human being, but you happen to think a load of rubbish.

A bloody fetus photo waver outside the women s clinic in my town had started his own little flock in a town 30 miles away. I told him him that the day's contingent of escorts included a Methodist, a Congregational, an Episcopalian, a Quaker, a Presbyterian and this aging Unitarian.

"Those aren't real religions," he said. "We're the only real religion." herm

Don't fret, Marie. If you hang out the logical fallacies of the other side become apparent. Moreover, the other side is just as loathe to admit their rubbish as anyone.

I have to admit, I'm pretty tired of this petty divisive pope already. He's a mere shadow of his predecessor.

Popes are supposed to bring people together and heal divisions, not be assholes.

Don't fret, Marie. If you hang out the logical fallacies of the other side become apparent. Moreover, the other side is just as loathe to admit their rubbish as anyone.


Do you believe the catholic teachings are correct? Christian doctrine?

It's a larger debate than what the Catholics think. However, the Pope is more right about things for being on the general side he's on.

The "other side" doesn't really see any human being as being alive, just as less dead than an average rock.

nonsense, one can be alive without believing in god. religon was created by man to explain stuff he does not understand, it used to be thunder and lightning, now it is life and death.

jesus is not god.

god has no interest in your sex life.

god has no interest in whether you kill or not. you were born a killer.

god has no interest in you resting or not resting.

you cannot conceive of what god wants.

The odd thing to me is that there is kind of recognition of the authority of the pope by protestants implicit in their being offended by this judgment on theological matters--specifically the nature of salvation.

If you truly think the pope is a fool, an idiot or a charlatan how can you be offended by what he is saying? You may laugh* at him or simply dismiss him in response--at the most.

To register offense, however, is to grant his words some power over you. Granting some one or something power over you is the essential nature of recognizing authority.

Cheers

* This is why Zat (and others) has the need to tell us repeatedly that the Pope is an idiot in a funny hat. He wants to make sure we know he doesn't recognize any papal authority about anything. (Of course, the reflexive need to deny something repeatedly makes an interesting statement all of its own.)

the pope has no authority but what men give him. he speaks no truth because the catholic church is based on a falsehood.

As I Catholic I would like to offer the olive branch of mutual acceptance and understanding to my protestant friends .

You worship God in your way, and I will worship God in His way.

Cheers









(The above was just some good nature ribbing. Something Adam knew quite well, I might add.)

PAX VOBIS

Cowboy -

What if the path to reach salvation and spirituality is like climbing a mountain with that goal at the pinnacle?

What if each of us is struggling and working our way up a different side of the mountain trying to achieve that goal?

We each know the others are there, but we can't see them and don't know what obstacles and trials they face in following their path.

What if there really is no right or wrong path as long as you are continuously striving to reach that goal?

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-07-11 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

" 11He is
" 'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.[a]'[b] 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus." Acts 4

"12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death." Proverbs 14

Many paths or one path?

You're all adults; figure it out and deal with it.

"Many paths or one path?

You're all adults; figure it out and deal with it.

Posted by MACV1972"

But of course you are basing your argument on an ancient text that you happen to believe is the inerrant truth.

That is what you BELIEVE but neither you nor I KNOW for sure. To coin a lyric from the great rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar ...

"We both have truths.
Are mine the same as yours?"

Mr. Rogue wants to wait until he "knows" something. To coin another lyric from another rock song: "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now".

"Mr. Rogue wants to wait until he "knows" something."

No Mr. Smarmy - But I am willing to allow that there can be spiritual, moral people of good faith who, even though their beliefs are different than mine, are not somehow lesser, unworthy beings.

I'm willing to acknowledge that people can travel a different faith journey - and that the most important thing is that they are constantly striving to become better humans, and treat others with dignity and charity - not that they subscribe to a certain dogma.

I'm willing to trust that God has extravagant enough love and grace to embrace diversity. "In my Father's house there are many mansions."

I'm willing to freely admit that my own human and limited understanding of God is NOT who God actually is. Are you?

And check your lyric again. You may have unwittingly self-retorted there.

"That the most important thing is to become better humans...."

Who said? Seriously. You figured that out? Who are you?

When the experience of billions over the ages is NOT being "better" gets them all they want in life, what's your point?

"Basing your argument on some ancient text...."

Smarmy? God save us from smart people.

funny how the smart people are usually right.

Something I read in a book about evolution many years ago stuck with me: "The survival value of human intelligence has yet to be proven".

SAR: "That the most important thing is to become better humans...."

ZES: "Who said? Seriously. You figured that out? Who are you?"

But of course you conveniently left out the other half of that thought...

"not that they subscribe to a certain dogma."

SAR: "Basing your argument on some ancient text...."

What's your point? Is that untrue?

ZED: "When the experience of billions over the ages is NOT being "better" gets them all they want in life, what's your point?"

I guess I'm not as smart as you think I am since I haven't a clue what the heck that is supposed to mean.

funny how the smart people are usually right.

as opposed to left? ;)

I thought the point was that the everyday experience of life for most human beings is that they maximize their personal outcomes by lying. cheating, and being mean.

Looked at this way, God is a hindrance. Just stupid, in fact. As is "moral" behavior except that it also has some impact on getting you what you want.

As a sage once remarked: "What's the good of being a Hindu if you can't kill monkeys?"

Oh.

"Many paths or one path?

You're all adults; figure it out and deal with it.

Posted by MACV1972"

But of course you are basing your argument on an ancient text that you happen to believe is the inerrant truth.

That is what you BELIEVE but neither you nor I KNOW for sure. To coin a lyric from the great rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar ...

"We both have truths.
Are mine the same as yours?"

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2007-07-12 09:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Agnosticism is just a more sophisticated dodge for plain old unbelief.