"How Low can ya go?"
"How Low can ya go?"

No, Spud was not doing the Hand Jive just there, the first time the question was about Bush's numbers, the second time it was about Bush's character.

...or, more properly, lack of same.

Be Well.

And Gallup polls are legendary for their distortions...so just how low is the real numbers on GW's ongoing love for his fellow man & beast!

I have to say that the election and re-election of Bush is a point for the bible thumpers against evolution. Even if the elections were stolen, they were close enough to give validity to the point that mankind doesn't learn--doesn't change--doesn't evolve---that we were created stupid and will remain so for all our existence.

Which will probably end around Dec 21, 2012.

you leaving us then?

Wasn't Truman at 23%

Larry

BTW The Above is a classic JeffJ Deflection just for Your information.

Larry

Therefore with this number we can expect Bush to gracefully resign, right?

Republicans in general, and neocons specifically, are so fucking stupid that no matter how low GWBs ratings go they will always rationalize and justify his actions. And when all else fails, they will blame the mainstream media and accuse everyone else of being weak or unpatriotic. Fuckin conservative scumbags. Do this nation a favor. Leave.

He won't stop until he's Number 1!!!!

Bush Ties Nixon with 66% Disapproval

And to think I called BushCo "a bunch of fuckin' underachievers" last weekend. Well....when I'm wrong I say so, and boy was I wrong!

66% Disapproval

As evenly divided by political party as the American electorate is, that number has to include a lot of Republicans.

Bush Ties Nixon with 66% Disapproval

And is within striking distance of Harry Truman's disapproval rating?
It['s what happens every freakin' time you give someone like that power.

How many of us on the left have talked about a "race to the bottom"?

Okay, so Bush is tied with Nixon. Can we impeach him yet? He was back on the trail again today in Ohio trying to get those HSA's going again in order to destroy Medicare. Bush is determined to dismantle and sell off this country bit by bit and we can't afford to have him for another 2 years.

It's probably 66.6% but they didn't want to say so.

This is certainly a milestone. Based on past history, it appears that disapproval rating can go up by 5% because Bush 2 never reached as low as Nixon. Hopefully that makes sense to some.

Certainly, as more Republican law makers are forced to abandon their support for him, his approval ratings can only go lower the more he speaks about the war

Come on W, we KNOW you can do it !!!!! All time loser. It's a cinch.

Go George go!! Go George go!!

Man...at this rate W is going to have to be cremated when he dies(I'm going to assume of old age, and I'm not sanctioning violence against the POTUS) because people will be lined up to piss on his grave.

Since day-to-day polls suddenly matter, how low did LBJ get? He pissed away trillions and sacrificed a couple generations on the Welfare state.

Bush has surely outspent LBJ on stupid public programs.

because people will be lined up to piss on his grave.

I think they could sell tickets for that.

Maybe even help pay for his fuckin' war!

LBJ's programs benefitted AMERICANS Millions of Americans were fed, educated, and given a better shot at the American dream. The proof was in the dramatic rise of the middle class.

Bush has pissed away trillions and no one got a damn thing for it here.

Ummmmmmm I hate the son of a bitch with a purple passion. That being said it's bad juju to desecrate a grave NO MATTER whom is buried there.

Larry

Especially the Vietnamess & Cambodians LBJ bombed, too...oh, that was Nixon:>)

Bush has surely outspent LBJ on stupid public programs.

Posted by vernon at 2007-07-11 12:22 AM

Iraq is a public program ?

That being said it's bad juju to desecrate a grave NO MATTER whom is buried there.

Well then, you don't have to buy a ticket.

This is true Whatsleft.I don't have to buy a ticket.

Larry

A Thought occured to Me. Yeah it DOES happen from time to time. If one pisses upon Dubya's grave doesn't that make that person no better than Dubya who is pissing upon the very graves of the fallen for continuing the Iraq war?? Just a thought.

Larry

Dubya who is pissing upon the very graves of the fallen for continuing the Iraq war??

I think you're taking the comments too seriously, and overanalyzing the issue.

G'night Larry.

Larry, depends on if you had prior knowledge of who's grave you are pissing on, One has to prove malicious piss intent.

Sadly pissing on Bush's grave would make HIS flowers grow and would not bring back the thousands he's murdered. Let's just make sure it never happens again. herm

Yeah, Bush with his 29% approval in only double that of the democrat congress who are at 14%. Of course Harry Reid in bringing up the middle at 19% approval.

Damn that means even the democrats know the democrats and Harry Reid suck.

YOUKNEWWHO

Cupcake.

Congress was at 18% approval before the 2006 election. The average now is 25%. You must get your numbers from Fox. Bush is actually polling between 26-29% now.

Now, get rid of the obstructionist warmongering NeoCon Republicans in Congress and watch the ratings rise like a weather balloon. The Iraq War is what Americans are pissed at the most. Why aren't you over there all gung ho helping out your hero and his failed war (and presidency).

what was nixon's approval rating a few months after he resigned?

I wonder if in Bush's mind he's comparing himself with Harry Truman; widely unpopular during his own time but generally looked back upon positively by historians.

The only approval W cares about is that of Laura, and his dog. When he is with her he gets that reaganistic "how'm I doing" look on top of his smirk mask.

ah yes and history does repeat itself....

as I have so correctly pointed out, the socialist left is slobbering at the mouth when they can do anything to bring back nixon and watergate and nam with iraq..and trying to make bush and iraq into those.......
and here's hoping that history will continue to repeat itself with a repeat of the election of 1980.

and to all of you who seem to only be capable of using the stupid card......
in the words of the VP go fuck yoursleves.

and now we sit and watch the expected reaction........name calling and bloviating with little if any substance.

why not bring up watergate, BL2? I'm sure you have a "two-towel-er" every chance you can bring up Clinton's name, regardless of the relevance.

...and what is "the stupid card"?
Dubya?
Well, true enough, he IS now his own stupid card.

I guess 66% of the country is now "the socialist left" in your opinion.

It's easy to be in the Republican spin machine of Texas and think the rest of the country is exactly like you. It isn't.

in the words of the VP go fuck yoursleves.

and now we sit and watch the expected reaction........name calling and bloviating with little if any substance.

Subtle

BLT, i'm happy to appease you. "Bushlover" is about the best four letter word i can come up with

lefty......at least someone can come up with something that isnt the same ole same ole.....I congratulate you......
not bad.....not bad.......

come on ted......go for the bait....

and I am just reminding all of you of history.....dems were all gaga with the fall of saigon and then watergate made them giddy with glee.....and it WAS thier moments in the sun............and when it was all shaken out, 1980 came along.....lets see now....how many states went democrat in 1980??????????????????


and we are now waiting on yet another expected comment.......party over country......who will be the first?

""and now we sit and watch the expected reaction........name calling and bloviating with little if any substance.""

You seem to have taken care of that this morning.

thanks BLT :)

BLT

I like ya, but I have absolutely no idea how your mind works.

Sometimes, I try to imagine the kinds of thoughts that go through the mind of George Bush (or say, Michael Jackson). It gives me the shivers.

You're kinda like that.

Not quite. But close.

"and then watergate made them giddy with glee.....and it WAS thier moments in the sun.."

Actually it was more the Republican's moment in the sun when they stepped up to the plate and did the right thing for the nation. I was a Republican in those days of yore, and was proud of the bi-partisanship that eventually emerged.

Bush has pissed away trillions and no one got a damn thing for it here.

Posted by AllAmerican at 2007-07-11 12:27 AM | Reply

You are wrong. There are fewer oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. China is developing oil that is within the US sphere.

There are no oil rigs in ANWR to piss off the caribou. Ted Kennedy's ocean view is not spoiled by devices that generate electricity from the ocean.

And you still get to drive all you want. You've got a freezer or extra fridge.

Liberals love to ignore the fact that if America does not develop its own energy, we have to protect sources elsewhere.

The war in Iraq, and the blood spilled, is on the hands of crackpot liberals who block nuclear power and oil drilling, but still expect to run their a/c and drive their cars.

Why were Truman's ratings so low?

""Liberals love to ignore the fact that if America does not develop its own energy, we have to protect sources elsewhere.""

And righties love to ignore the fact that conservation and alternative energy sources are our only real hope of energy independence.

""The war in Iraq, and the blood spilled, is on the hands of crackpot liberals who block nuclear power and oil drilling,""

No, the blood is on the hands of those who voted for Bush and supported his war for oil profits but object to any and all measures to increase fuel efficiency, etc. here in the US.
They can't be bothered with saving fuel when it is other people's kids fighting to make sure they have plenty to waste.

Okay, so Bush is tied with Nixon. Can we impeach him yet? He was back on the trail again today in Ohio trying to get those HSA's going again in order to destroy Medicare.

Fedup,

The additional beauty with HSA's is that as the pot accumulates, the deductible can be increased, thus reducing the annual outlay even further.


Furthermore, it really introduces market forces into the fray:

* Since HSA holders are essentially paying their medical costs out-of-pocket:

1. They are incented to take better care of themselves.

2. They are incented to shop around for health care - question the costs and necessity of certain tests - question the need for expensive pharmacueticals, etc.

3. Oftentimes, doctors are willing to recduce their charges if they can get paid up-front and in full. This saves them considerably on all of the costs that go in to billing through a 3rd party.


HSA's make sense in so many ways.

Why were Truman's ratings so low?

Because of his "police action" in Korea. A good deal of the populace agreed with Douglas MacArthur, who wanted to drop 50 nukes on China.

JeffJ,

Thanks for the tip on item 3; I had never thought to negotiate with the Doctors!

Item 2 is especially important as well. I switched medical insurance providers because my old provider increased the premium. My HSA was not impacted because it was in my name.

Finanally, one of the obvious benefits of an HSA is that deposits to the HSA are tax deductible!

I suspect that most of the complaints about HSAs are from people that don't really understand them.

Fedup and JeffJ,

Thanks for the info, I had no idea.

Bush Approval by Party Affiliation
(percentage who approve)

68% Republicans
21% Independents
7% Democrats


2007 Jul 6-8


I would never respond to a pollster. But... as a far right conservative I do not approve of his handling of the war...we need to fight to win and not hobble our military with unreasonable rules of engagement!I can also understand his recent numbers considering his stance on illegal immigration and border security.

Jeff or Fedup, if you pay your own medical expenses what price are you paying?
Insurance companies get charged far less than individuals paying their own bills.
Are you able to get the same prices that the insurance companies can get?

""we need to fight to win and not hobble our military with unreasonable rules of engagement!"

And what are these "unreasonable" rules of engagement??

Fedup...you are so right about HSA. I was a person who paid monthly premiums down a rat hole while never collecting ...now with the HSA and good health I have a hefty sum stored up... even with higher prem on the high deduct policy because of age. Our prems were hitting $10,000. a year with reg health ins/w$1000. deductable...we're older. The young should be piling onto this. It is too late for me but I had hoped for the SSI reform along the same lines...it would be a boon to the young hardworking people today.

"we need to fight to win and not hobble our military with unreasonable rules of engagement!"

Fight WHO???? The TERRUSTS?? How do you know who they are? How do you know who to shoot?

In what way do you see our military hobbled? The Geneva Convention? Fogedaboudit---we no longer subscribe to that worn out document--just like the Constitution, its just "a godamn piece of paper" according to Bush. We certainly aren't hobbled by lack of torturing. so exactly what "hobbles" would you like to see removed?

Then tell me when we know we've won. Who are we waiting to surrender? The Terrusts??? Who can tell us they give up? What are our goals? To turn Iraqis into Christian Yuppies---or corpses. We've been doing a good job if corpses is the answer.

The Iraq War was lost the very second it began. People on the right need to face that fact and take ownership of their support for it. Face REALITY.

Larry

Danni,


You have to remember, HSA's are in conjunction with insurance.

HSA expenses (health costs) have to be approved in order for the cash expenditure to be drawn from your HSA.


Fact is, as these things take off (they will) more and more providers will see the cost-saving benefits of getting paid up-front and in-full. Do you realize how much it costs a provider to bill an insurance company and then wait for payment?

Fedup,


HSA's DO involve more work and diligence on the part of the end-user (us). However, IMO the extra effort is well worth it.


The money that goes into an HSA goes in tax free!


Now, HSA's aren't the utopian solution for ALL of our health care problems. Not in the least. However, they are of benefit (IMO) to a big chunk of our population and really need to be an integral part of any, comprehensive health care reform system.

The beaurocratic savings alone related to eliminating so many 3rd party transaction is enormous.

2001 Sep 14-15

95% Republicans
84% Independents
78% Democrats

2007 Jul 6-8

68% Republicans
21% Independents
7% Democrats


Shows that 68% of Republicans put party above country.

Shows that 21% of Independents really aren't, and are either stupid or lying.

Shos that 7% of democrats should change parties

Jeff, I don't know too much about HSAs but from the little bit I understand from your description it sounds to me that this will become another method by which insurance companies can avoid paying claims,
first most folks won't have the available funds to pay up front thus they won't be able to go to the doctor
second, medical billing is very complicated and uses all sorts of codes for different services and supplies which the average person can't really even decipher, much less be able to force the insurance company to pay claims for. Today, with our current billing methods insurance companies regularly and intentionally just don't pay many of the items on claims that they know are covered. This is the regular practice and in virtually all hospital bills covered items are denied every day.
I must say, I do not understand why anyone would support any changes to our health care system that shifts even more cost onto the shoulders of individuals.
From what you describe it will cost us more and we will still be burdened with the cost of insurance.
Sounds like just another scheme to try and convince Americans that what is working in the rest of the world won't work here just so that the greed fucker insurance companies can continue to suck the blood of Americans.

Danni,


I don't know too much about HSAs....


I am by no means an expert. However, you really are seeing conspiracy where none exists.


I'll give you a very simplified synopsis of them, based upon my understanding...


Note: These numbers are made up - plenty of websites exist that can give you real figures. I am simply using these made-up numbers to illustrate how the system works.


Let's say between you and your employer, you expend $1000 per month for an HMO. This HMO has a $10 co-pay and all other expenses are covered as long as you are using providers within their umbrella.


Under an HSA, you could take that same $1000 per month and have a $2500 deductible on your insurance. Basically, $200 of your $1000 would cover the cost of your high deductible insurance. The remaining $800 per month would go into your HSA account. This money goes into your account tax free. When you do have to utilize health service, you draw from this account (sometimes by paying first and then submitting for reimbursement). Any unused monies roll over continuously. Let's say after 2 years you have $6000 sitting in this account. At this point, you might increase your deductible from $2500 to $5000, which reduces the insurance side of your HSA from $200 per month to $150 per month.

Your normal (physicals, routine visits for the odd-injury, etc) transactions with your provider are all 2nd party (not 3rd party) transactions. You'd shop for your services and pharacueticals the same way you shop for any other purchase of its price range. Plus, you are STILL insured and have the insurance card to prove it - this would go hand-in-hand with the large purchasing power you alluded to in your last post. Think along these lines: "Dear HSA customer, As your insurance provider we have negotiated special rates with the following Health providers: A, B, C, etc"


Again, this is simplified but I hope it helps nevertheless.

nixon's sins were proven facts bush's as of now is jus speculation and inuendo

larry it ain't the war was lost -it's the peace thats f**ked up
jasman

larry it ain't the war was lost -it's the peace thats f**ked up
jasman

Posted by newjasman at 2007-07-11 12:57 PM | Reply


The war keeps on going or does those Bullets and Mortars mean anything to You??

Larry

HSA expenses (health costs) have to be approved in order for the cash expenditure to be drawn from your HSA.

this is what i'm sayin the invasion of iraq upset the peaceful idylic life of the iraqis under the under the compassionate rule of st sadaam
jasman

Jas-
re: this is what i'm sayin the invasion of iraq upset the peaceful idylic life of the iraqis under the under the compassionate rule of st sadaam

You're the only one who's 'sayin' that.

Pretty much everyone else has come to realize that Bush threw gasoline on a fire in the ME and unleashed hell in Iraq, had no plan for the aftermath, and now we'll pay the price for a generation or so.

Fedup,


My company still utilizes the far-more antiquated FSA.

The money DOESN'T roll over and everything is paid first and then reimbursed, which is kind of a pain.

I was guessing a bit in how an HSA handled payouts.


Regarding an HSA credit card....

I would guess that transactions are monitored and if they see a transaction for "Strippers 'R Us" they bounce it.

"in the words of the VP go fuck yoursleves.

and now we sit and watch the expected reaction........name calling....

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-07-11 08:47 AM"

You cannot write this shit any better if you tried.

"it ain't the war was lost -it's the peace thats f**ked up"

If you look close enough, you'll realize they're one and the same.

"The war in Iraq, and the blood spilled, is on the hands of crackpot liberals who block nuclear power and oil drilling, but still expect to run their a/c and drive their cars.

Posted by vernon at 2007-07-11 10:16 AM"

Iraq was producing more oil, and prices were lower, before this fucked up war was started. Saddam was contained. We flew over his country at will, he had no navy or air force, and we had inspectors searching anywhere we pleased, including his palaces. The status quo was fine, dipshit.

"I would guess that transactions are monitored and if they see a transaction for "Strippers 'R Us" they bounce it."

But...but...I was only getting a "massage".


(Whenever I hear that, I think 'yea, she was massaging my dick with the inside of her vagina.')

"crackpot liberals who block nuclear power and oil drilling"

Quick Vern, pull out your trusty calculator and tell us:

Which would be more beneficial for the US...drilling in ANWAR and extracting every last drop of oil, or a 2mpg increase in the CAFE standards?

"My company still utilizes the far-more antiquated FSA. "

JeffJ,

Is it the old kind, where you have to use it by Dec 31st, or has your employer amended it to the new kind, which allows you until March 1st (or 31st, I can't remember which) to fully exhaust?

If it's the former, suggest they change it to the latter. It'll at least give you & your compatriots a fairer shot, and not force you to doctor-up in December.

Danni,

first most folks won't have the available funds to pay up front thus they won't be able to go to the doctor

second, medical billing is very complicated and uses all sorts of codes for different services and supplies which the average person can't really even decipher, much less be able to force the insurance company to pay claims for.

Today, with our current billing methods insurance companies regularly and intentionally just don't pay many of the items on claims that they know are covered. This is the regular practice and in virtually all hospital bills covered items are denied every day.

From what you describe it will cost us more and we will still be burdened with the cost of insurance.

My company still utilizes the far-more antiquated FSA

""nixon's sins were proven facts bush's as of now is jus speculation and inuendo""

Nixon's were just speculation and inuendo until investigations found evidence.....that is specifically why the Bush administration won't cooperate with committee investigations.

On the HSAs I have to learn more to have any comment.

On the HSAs I have to learn more to have any comment.

Posted by danni


I appreciate your willingness to consider their value.


Even with my antiquated FSA, I can expense such things as cough drops and band aids. In short, I pay for these items pre-tax.



Oh, and Danni, I am not suggesting that HSA's solve every aspect of the problems with our health care system. However, they definitely need to be considered as part of any comprehensive reform to our health system.

Jeff, though I want nationalized health care we still have to make the best of what we have in the mean time. Right now I am covered at work but at sometime in the fairly near future I may be self-employed and then this may be an interesting option.

Danni,


It would behoove you to learn as much about HSA's as you can if you might become self-employed.


Also, many employers are beginning to offer HSA's as another option in regards to company-paid (well, partially-paid) insurance. You know:
PPO A.
PPO B.
HMO A.
HMO B.
HSA

No thread on Congress's dismal numbers.

Whta a suprise here at the Retort.

"No thread on Congress's dismal numbers"

Put one up. It's a free country.

Whta a suprise here at the Retort.

I'm sure you can give us a link to a similar thread about Chimpy's dismal #'s at LGF?

If you want one about congress's #'s, post it

Michael Moore had the answer.

As usual.

In civilized nations health care is free. No cost attached anywhere. No bills, no doctors weighing figures preceded by dollar signs. The doctors live comfortably. Taxes are a teeny bit higher for the rich, but people are delighted in that they get something for their money. All we do with ours is blow up Iraqis. herm

"No cost attached anywhere."

and

"Taxes are a teeny bit higher for the rich"

contradicting statements. maybe a mistatement. Obviously, there are costs.

No one argues that there are costs. Governments that don't fight $12 billion a month wars can absorb the costs via normal revenues and scaling back on lavish MD lifesryles. If there's a contradiction, I miss it. herm

Rereading this a couple of hours later I must try to clarify. There are costs for health care in civilizaed nations. There are just no CHARGES. Are we clear now? herm

interesting how this thread went from nixon to health care, isnt it?
or is it?
and I am still trying to figure out how someone earlier celebrated bipatisanship when the left got thier ass kicked in 1980.....
anyway, my comment stands......the left does all they can to make bush into nixon and iraq into nam............in the old days you would have gotten away with it, but this is a new day and we just dont play that game no mo.

Herm yes there is a cost!

The Insurance companies and Pharmaceutical Companies will no longer be able to make such an obscene profit off of sick Americans.

The Government will lose more control over your life. What is the first thing that goes through your mind if you are in danger of losing your job?

Where will I get my health care?

This should never be a concern. Americans should be covered by UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

HSA's are a scam just like HMO's are a scam.

When will this get fixed?


When Americans are no longer afraid of their Government and the Government becomes afraid of them.

Get yer laundry and head for DC.

It is time we fixed this. Americans all deserve better.

Go see SICKO now...

"Go see SICKO now..."

Or download it. Just do a search for "sicko torrent". Keep in mind that Moore has stated he didn't mind people downloading his movies, since he wants to get his message across.

""The war in Iraq, and the blood spilled, is on the hands of crackpot liberals who block nuclear power and oil drilling, but still expect to run their a/c and drive their cars.

Posted by vernon at 2007-07-11 10:16 AM"

Iraq was producing more oil, and prices were lower, before this fucked up war was started. Saddam was contained. We flew over his country at will, he had no navy or air force, and we had inspectors searching anywhere we pleased, including his palaces. The status quo was fine, dipshit.

Posted by mOntecOre"

No, no. You're wrong. Saddam had TONS of WMD. So it was just a matter of time before he used them on innocent Americans. Remember?