One attackers was set ablaze from head to foot, and as he struggled with police, "was throwing punches and shouting, 'Allah, Allah,' " an eyewitness said.

Many people here would have us believe that there are an equal number of incidents around the world, where the potential suicide bomber is yelling "Jesus" Jesus"

Which of course is laughable.

One of two men who drove the car into the terminal's main entrance was in critical condition at a hospital. It was erroneously reported earlier that he had died.

Police and witnesses in Glasgow described an SUV-style vehicle in flames being driven at full speed toward the building. Witness Jackie Kennedy told the BBC that a man got out of the car, went to the back and pulled out a can of fuel, which he poured on himself and ignited.

"The guy was in flames and seemed to be enjoying himself," Kennedy said. ...

I wonder why we find Muslim violence in Britain and not the rest of Europe. Could it be blowback GZ? Surely you wouldn't expect Britain to get involved with the US and Israel without some kind of repercussion.

I wonder why we find Muslim violence in Britain and not the rest of Europe

France, Denmark and Holland aren't in Europe anymore ray?

"I wonder why we find Muslim violence in Britain and not the rest of Europe."

I seem to remember some train bombing in Spain, some riots and car burning in France, the killing of filmmaker Van Gogh in Holland.....
Lotta trouble in Italy too, police arrested some Muslims planning to blow up the subway in Milan....
Britain isn't the only country experiencing radical Islamofascist problems. Then, of course, there's Indonesia, Sudan, Chechnya, the Philippines, Somalia, India,......

TERROR!

If we'd all just leave these poor people alone they wouldn't want to kill us. We should leave them be.

France, Denmark and Holland aren't in Europe anymore ray?

Denmark yes. But France and Holland? They're in the middle of Europe. What kind of map is Bowa using?

Jest
Those other countries have to do with local issues. If you are trying to connect them with some organized movement to take over the world, that's pure hogwash.

"If we'd all just leave these poor people alone they wouldn't want to kill us. We should leave them be."

Really?? Why do they want to kill all the non-Muslims in Darfur? What have the Philippinos been doing to them? They want to kill all infidels and establish Sharia law worldwide...they've said as much over and over. You think they're just kiddin' right?

Ray, I must say you appear be to "growing" toward feebleness. It doesn't make me feel good to have this observation of you.

I'll pass it off as your Gerry Ford moment.

"Those other countries have to do with local issues. If you are trying to connect them with some organized movement to take over the world, that's pure hogwash."

Hogwash to YOU maybe. You know, if you take over ONE "local," then another "local," then another "local"...pretty soon you have a pretty good empire. Lemme see, Somalia is a "local" in Africa, so is the Sudan, Kenya etc., Kashmir is a "local" in Asia along with Thailand, Indonesia and others, Gaza is a "local" in the ME as is Lebanon, .... AND Michigan and Minnesota are "locals" in North America. Does NONE of all that bother you???? Do you SINCERELY believe that all the trouble with Islamofascists is just benign???

They want to kill all infidels and establish Sharia law worldwide...they've said as much over and over. You think they're just kiddin' right?

C'mon Jest. You're talking about a tiny minority. Bush/Cheney are just as zealous, only with a vast military to back them up.

"C'mon Jest. You're talking about a tiny minority. Bush/Cheney are just as zealous, only with a vast military to back them up."

Awww, Ray...Bush and Cheney have only had a coupla years to mess up. These folks have had DECADES. Bush and Cheney will be gone in a few months, THESE guys will be around for MORE decades. You MUST get over this Bush/Cheney obssession thing. At least they have SOME limitations on what they can do with a Congress and all, but there is NOBODY limiting the actions of Islamofascism.

Jest
I don't know all the local issues. India and Pakistan have been at war over Kashmir for decades. Africa has been a bloodbath since the colonial empires left. The violence in Chechnya has to do with the Russian's refusal to accept succession. In France, it was over discrimination. Spain had a population of Muslims called the Moors. Gaza and Lebanon is a case of Muslim verses Muslim. It seems to me that the media is blowing every incident out of proportion.

Do you SINCERELY believe that all the trouble with Islamofascists is just benign???

Criminal yes. But it doesn't begin to match the violence perpetrated by the US/ Israel/Britain against Muslims.

These folks have had DECADES.

Yes, since the formation of Israel.

At least they have SOME limitations on what they can do with a Congress and all, but there is NOBODY limiting the actions of Islamofascism.

I wouldn't rest easy. Bush has three carrier fleets in the Gulf and a forth is on the way. Congress has been rolling over every time.

The lack of military force imposes strict limits on what "Islamofascist" can do. Of course, the Russians and Chinese have been supplying them with weapons and missiles. I think a major blowup is in our future.

I would have been more correct to say CENTURIES. Even BEFORE the re-creation of Israel. Yes, you're right...they are wonderful, peace-loving folks and they are only mad at us for Israel.

If you want to go back that far, Israel has been at war with its neighbors since biblical days. Some things never change.

WOW...religious fanatics in 711. Israel, the U.S. or Britain must have caused this.

Christianity had its share of wars too. From thirteen to two billion is even more impressive.

Muslim expansion ended with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire during WWI.

In the book "Victory in Tripoli," Joshua London writes about the Muslim Barbary pirates. They attacked American shipping vessels in the 18th century, often boarding ships and enslaving crewmembers.

It wasn't unique to Muslims. As an example, Britain was pirating Spanish ships, taking their silver as they crossed the Atlantic. (citing from memory, but I think I'm correct.)

I think it is fair to argue that Christian expansion reemerged with the formation of Israel. Jest, when you try to insinuate only Muslims do it, you are off base.

"Christianity had its share of wars too. From thirteen to two billion is even more impressive."

"HAD" being the operative word here.

"Muslim expansion ended with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire during WWI."

I guess you aren't keeping up with the news and all. Radical Muslims are establishing strict Islamic law as we speak in Africa, Gaza and other places. You know, like what happened in Iran? Could this be a resurgence kinda like has occured over and over throughout history?


"It wasn't unique to Muslims. As an example, Britain was pirating Spanish ships, taking their silver as they crossed the Atlantic. (citing from memory, but I think I'm correct.)"

I guess you missed THIS part: THIS attitude hasn't changed. Britain no longer steals Spain's doubloons.

"The Tripolitan ambassador told them -- as reported to the Continental Congress -- "that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

"I think it is fair to argue that Christian expansion reemerged with the formation of Israel."

WOW...where did the Presbyterians attack first? Have the Methodists committed terror in Thailand? I bet it's those pesky Catholics causing all that mess in the Philippines, right?

Jest
The American government has half of all the military power in the world. The US is the most aggressive military power in the world. That can do nothing but make enemies who are not all Muslims.

where did the Presbyterians attack first?
Have you ever heard of Christian Zionism of which Bush/Cheney are members?

So please you are not convincing that we have to worry about Muslim world dominance. We are more at risk from the crazies in Washington. Much more at risk.

War leaves behind a trail of hatred and resentment that makes it nearly impossible to achieve long term peace and stability.

The US has bombed 22 countries since the end of World War II. In none of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result
Long term military occupation will be required by an invasion of Iraq. Military occupation will likely trigger even more hatred and terror. The events of 9/11 were committed out of anger that the US military is present on Saudi Arabian soil against the wishes of most Saudis.

War in Iraq will lead to other military conflicts involving the Kurds in the North and the Shiites in the south of Iraq. Will the US stop the wholesale slaughter of Kurds by Turkey and Iraq? How will the US react if pro-Iranian forces join in the battle in the south of Iraq?

Pre-emptive strikes will destroy the legal and moral structure which has been in place for 500 years and was codified in the Nuremburg Principles. The UN Charter states that no nation may wage aggressive war against another nation. For more information on relevant treaties, see the Yale Avalon Project.

A similar opinion was published by a group of U.S. Law professors

John Brady Kiesling, a diplomat at the United States Embassy in Athens, said in his resignation letter, "Our fervent pursuit of war with Iraq is driving us to squander the international legitimacy that has been America's most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson."

Spain had a population of Muslims called the Moors.

Wrong! That's "Moops"

...there is a town named "Matamoros." It means , "Kill Moors." Wonder why???"

Ummm....

Cos they really, really didn't like F9/11?

...And cos they can't spell too good?

Jest guesses, admittedly.

Be Well.

Just as terrorists are trying to hit Britain, they would love to also hit the U.S. Anybody who does not believe the harm intended for all Western nation by Islamist extremist groups is a fool.
Since 9/11 the US has avoided any large scale successful attack. This could change in the blink of an eye. The solution is not to let down our security guard, nor at the same time buy into the fearmongering of the White House. The threat by radical Islam is real. What happened Britain was not a ploy. Had it succeeded, hundreds would be dead. Fortunately, with intelligent preparation, we seem able to thwart most of the attacks, - at least so far.

I wonder what exactly that means? How is that different than the lowest level. Do people just do nothing until a bomb blows up and suddenly all they do is after the fact work

WOW...where did the Presbyterians attack first? Have the Methodists committed terror in Thailand? I bet it's those pesky Catholics causing all that mess in the Philippines, right?



Posted by jestgettinalong


so you dont think it feasible that muslims believe that western, primarily chistian nations, essentially the US is attacking and at war with them?

"so you dont think it feasible that muslims believe that western, primarily chistian nations, essentially the US is attacking and at war with them?"

Is Indonesia, another Muslim victim nation attacking them? How about the Philippines? Kashmir? Are those Muslims in Somalia attacking them too? I guess they must be under attack from the Sudan also...you know, those horrible tribesmen and women/children in Darfur that they are slaughtering? Then, of course, they are responding to attacks from Thailand too. Kenya, Tanzania, Chechnya...must be LOTS of folks attacking them and causing them to attack all over the damn globe...right?

So two of the arrested terrorists were doctors? Meaning they weren't uneducated, they weren't poor, they weren't rejects of society, they weren't any of the bullshit reasons liberals try to tell us they become terrorists...

So if they weren't any of the reasons... I wonder if there is a common denominator between these two and the rest? Let's figure this out together... You check out their rentals from netflix, I'll look into long shots like maybe their religion, but I'm not expecting to find much...

Sweet merciful FUCK!!! It turns out they're all Muslims! Who saw that coming?

I wonder why we find Muslim violence in Britain and not the rest of Europe.

Posted by Ray

Bombings in Spain, the Mohammed cartoon riots in a few countries, Van Gough's murder, French riots...

So i guess the only real reply to such a statement is... WHAT?!?!

Jest

just because the "terrorists" are religously motivated does not mean that some of our enemies do not perceive our actions in a similar light.

your post points out the very essence of the stupidity of hte war on terror. every example you state has comepletely different causes, characteristics, reasons and solutions. By terming all who commit violence as terrorists is simplistic and self defeating.

are the russians or teh chechen our allies in the war on terror? The chechens fight for independance from a foreign occupier. Are the turks or the kurds our allies? see simplicity hurts

Sweet merciful FUCK!!! It turns out they're all Muslims! Who saw that coming?

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole


wow rob, you figured that out all by yourself? did you? wow you be really really smart.

noone believes that we are not fighting religous zealots. However, our religous zealots are also committing violence in a different form.

we are fighting crazy people, correct. It is what we do in response that is the key. we can only control our actions and what are they? lets start with wars of prevention and how stupid they are.

"every example you state has comepletely different causes, characteristics, reasons and solutions."

Their goal is the same...to establish strict Islamic law. Just ask them. They have stated that fact over and over and over. What? You just don't believe them? Take a look at Gaza, Somalia, Darfur....Hell, look at what the Taliban did in Afghanistan

"By terming all who commit violence as terrorists is simplistic and self defeating."

I,m NOT "terming all who commit violence as terrorists." However, those radical MUSLIMS committing all the acts we're discussing are definitely Islamofascist terrorists with a common goal.

we can only control our actions and what are they?

Bullshit... if we stop taking your PC "we are the world, its only a small group of radicals, or religious zealots, or crazies (Make sure you never use the word Muslim though)" then we can fix this problem quite quickly... and actually then we wouldn't need wars of prevention either, so that would make you happy too.

But the problem is we'll never do that, because there will always be liberal PC thugs out there chastising anyone for pointing out the giant pink elephant in the room (no not Mark Foley)... As long as there are assholes like you in this world trying to equate us with them, we're not going to make any headway.

However, our religous zealots are also committing violence in a different form.

Dumbass Flag

every example you state has comepletely different causes, characteristics, reasons and solutions."

Their goal is the same...to establish strict Islamic law. Just ask them. They have stated that fact over and over and over. What? You just don't believe them? Take a look at Gaza, Somalia, Darfur....Hell, look at what the Taliban did in Afghanistan


TH: and the violence we have committed, abetted, aided, funded, supported, ignored? What goal was that? American hegenomy? you can ignore if you like our aiding the taliban into power or arming Saddam Hussein, but I chose not to. We play games with Iran and blowback comes in the form of fundamentalist revolution. how many innocents have died in IRaq cause of our actions and how much blowback will we pay for the next 50 years. Keep blaming the bad guy if it makes you feel better.



"By terming all who commit violence as terrorists is simplistic and self defeating."

I,m NOT "terming all who commit violence as terrorists." However, those radical MUSLIMS committing all the acts we're discussing are definitely Islamofascist terrorists with a common goal.

TH: there are over a billion muslims in the world, get used to that fact. Either accommodate and live together or kill em all.

you can ignore if you like our aiding the taliban into power or arming Saddam Hussein, but I chose not to.

We didn't do any of that for Jesus...

how many innocents have died in IRaq cause of our actions

Not nearly as many that have died in Iraq because they didn't follow the same version of Islam that other Muslims do...

Bullshit... if we stop taking your PC "we are the world, its only a small group of radicals, or religious zealots, or crazies (Make sure you never use the word Muslim though)" then we can fix this problem quite quickly... and actually then we wouldn't need wars of prevention either, so that would make you happy too.

But the problem is we'll never do that, because there will always be liberal PC thugs out there chastising anyone for pointing out the giant pink elephant in the room (no not Mark Foley)... As long as there are assholes like you in this world trying to equate us with them, we're not going to make any headway.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at



idito there are 1,000,000,000 muslims. You seem to advocate declaring war on them.

How else can we get at the bad guys? oh I get it by taking off the kid gloves. that is all we need to do, now I get it.

there are over a billion muslims in the world, get used to that fact. Either accommodate and live together or kill em all.

Posted by truthhurts


Sounds like TruthHurts is converting... did you get your complimentary skull cap and suicide vest yet?

idito there are 1,000,000,000 muslims. You seem to advocate declaring war on them.

How many are in America? Secure our borders, track them, shut down the radical mosques, deport the radical leaders, and anyone convicted of planning terrorist actions against the United States gets sent away for life imprisonment in solitary confinement.

There... problem solved.

oh we didnt fund and arm the afghanis to kick the soviets out and then abandoned Afghanistan leaving a power vacuum? I must have forgotten my recent afghan history.

oh we didnt fund and arm the afghanis to kick the soviets out and then abandoned Afghanistan leaving a power vacuum? I must have forgotten my recent afghan history.

Posted by truthhurts

You bet we did... Did we do it cuz we beleived that's what Jesus wanted?

You're deliberately ignoring the reason why they are attacking us because your rampant political correctness won't let you admit that maybe its more than just a few bad apples.

How many are in America? Secure our borders,

TH: Fair enough

track them,

TH: Like dogs? track all the muslims in america? Wow, that is crazy wild.

shut down the radical mosques,

TH:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


deport the radical leaders,

TH: And if they happen to be american citizens, they get deported where?

and anyone convicted of planning terrorist actions against the United States gets sent away for life imprisonment in solitary confinement.


TH: No problemo.

There... problem solved.

TH: Simplistic nonsense.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole


TH: who once again misunderstands what america stands for.

"Either accommodate and live together or kill em all." - Truth

How are we defining 'accomodate?' Sacrifice Israel? Think that'll solve things? I don't. Radical Muslims have shown, through terror attacks, that they don't seek peace with the west.


TH:accommodate as in dont invade soveriegn countries that seem scary to us. Live and let live. Be just in our dealings with the world. Have faith in the fact that western values, true democracy, freedom, justice will win out in the long run against religous intolerance. Understand that violence and repression are self defeating. You will not be able to defeat radical fundamentalism using the policies in place now. They create and feed the extremists instead of isolating them. BTW Israel is not synonomous with the US.

For peace to occur one side must perish or suffer such a crushing defeat that they won't have the will or the ability to fight. Tit-for-tat only prolongs the charade, IMO.

TH: for peace to occur one side must perish. You have an odd sense of peace.
how does one identify these radicals? they dont seem to be wearing radical buttons.

Posted by OohRah at

A very difficult issue is separating the garden variety Muslim from the radical Muslim. With our open society it becomes even more difficult.

Posted by OohRah


you could start by coming at the problem from another direction. Identifying the bad guys is a useless and never ending process. There will forever be more bad guys. It is physically impossible to remove the threat they pose by removing people or makign things too difficult for them to operate. that is an impossibility.

one must come at them from a different direction. One must remove their cause. Remove their reason for being.

Demonstrate to the moderates, those POTENTIAL enemies the benefits of not becoming enemies. Demonstrate the power of freedom and democracy or even more broadly peace and self determination. You cannot, unless willing to declare war on everyone who is muslim, eliminate the islamic influence. YOu can and must attempt to remove the radical violent aspect of it. You do this by delegitimizing the cause that drives the violence.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Tell that to the Branch Davidians... if they pose a risk to the security of the United States and it's citizens we can shut them down.

You can't preach violence and hatred and plan attacks against this nation and be free from prosecution just because you do it from a Mosque.

TH: Like dogs? track all the muslims in america? Wow, that is crazy wild.

Or just know their address, tap their phones, read their emails, etc, etc, etc

And if they happen to be american citizens, they get deported where?

Guantanamo Bay

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Tell that to the Branch Davidians... if they pose a risk to the security of the United States and it's citizens we can shut them down.

TH: Branch Davidians were not targeted because they posed a risk ....Some former members of Koresh's group alleged that he practiced polygamy with underage brides, physically abused children, and stockpiled illegal weapons. Eventually, legal authorities investigated these charges. That does not apply to peaceful assembly to discuss religous/political views.

You can't preach violence and hatred and plan attacks against this nation and be free from prosecution just because you do it from a Mosque.

TH: Like dogs? track all the muslims in america? Wow, that is crazy wild.

Or just know their address, tap their phones, read their emails, etc, etc, etc

TH:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So according to you only being muslim makes this no longer applicable. well done.

And if they happen to be american citizens, they get deported where?

Guantanamo Bay

TH: so being a radical leader (not a criminal) and being an american citizen they get deported to Guantanamo bay. Mind you I agreed on those plotting against the US, we are not talking about radical leaders (whatever that means). How does that jibe with....
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

You can't preach violence and hatred and plan attacks against this nation and be free from prosecution just because you do it from a Mosque.


TH: these are 2 different things. One can preach all the hatred one wants. Planning attacks against this nation is something different.

Branch Davidians were not targeted because they posed a risk

They were shut down for a host of reasons... the point is that if you are breaking the laws of this land the government can shut you down... so if a Mosque is found to be preaching hatred and inciting violence against the United States, then it can and should be shut down.

So according to you only being muslim makes this no longer applicable. well done.


We could take the route of one of our greatest presidents ever, FDR and do what he did?

There is a very specific and small (when compared to the entire population) group of people who have declared war on us (not the other way around). Until they decide to stop warring with us, then we should protect ourselves from them. There should be a profiling system, there should be more focused intel gathering... now that is not to say you let everyone with a christian name walk onto a plane without being searched... everyone goes through the security measures we have now, but Arab Muslims go through extra measures... they have no one to blame but themselves...

I'm sick of this country being less secure because we are placating to the PC police... we know who our enemy is, we should deal with them accordingly.

Branch Davidians were not targeted because they posed a risk

They were shut down for a host of reasons... the point is that if you are breaking the laws of this land the government can shut you down... so if a Mosque is found to be preaching hatred and inciting violence against the United States, then it can and should be shut down.


TH: I have no problem with that. Within constitional limits a church should not be a free area to commit crimes. WRT to the BD, they were targetted for the given facts, child molestation etc. Preaching hatred and inciting violence are different things. One has the right to preach hatred. One does not have the right to incite violence. It is a tight rope. But the government does not have the right to infringe on ones's religious values becuase they view them as a threat to the government.

So according to you only being muslim makes this no longer applicable. well done.


We could take the route of one of our greatest presidents ever, FDR and do what he did?


TH:ahh the FDR deflection.

There is a very specific and small (when compared to the entire population) group of people who have declared war on us (not the other way around).

TH:My point exactly. you seem to advocate a broader attack (see your 9:23AM post). more than a few bad apples are your words

Until they decide to stop warring with us, then we should protect ourselves from them.

TH: Correct.

There should be a profiling system,

TH:of limited value.

there should be more focused intel gathering...

TH:correct, whatever that means.

now that is not to say you let everyone with a christian name walk onto a plane without being searched... everyone goes through the security measures we have now, but Arab Muslims go through extra measures...

TH:and your enemies will adapt.

they have no one to blame but themselves...


TH:?What?

I'm sick of this country being less secure because we are placating to the PC police...

TH: OUr nation is less safe because of the policies of the POTUS.

we know who our enemy is, we should deal with them accordingly.

TH:so our enemy is the radical muslims. all 1,490,000,000 (checked my fact on that one). What exactly is a muslim anyway. Africans are muslims, as are indonesians and arabs and the many ethnicities of Afghanistan. Darker skin, dark hair seems to apply to those of latin background, ie hispanic and italian, greek, etc. Heck I suppose even Jewish people fall under that description.

I guess that leaves the blond haired blued eyed swedish bikini team.

Seems like the bad guys will do all they can to get some of them into their fold for the really big attacks, but hey, that is justme.

i think it is pretty rediculous that we don't openly profile at the airport. from poles that i have seen, the GRAND MAJORITY of americans think we should profile at the airport.

i'll be one of the individuals profiled for extra security... i'm over it.... it makes sense.

untill the typical attacker doesn't look 20 something with dark skin, lets serach every one of them extra, including me.

why not search everyone?

now that is not to say you let everyone with a christian name walk onto a plane without being searched... everyone goes through the security measures we have now, but Arab Muslims go through extra measures...

TH:and your enemies will adapt

-i don't understand this logic, my GF said the same thing. so if your enemy has a specific type of arrow that pierces your armor... instead of strengthening your armor to stop that arrow, you let it be because if you fix your armor than they will just adapt their arrow.

what kind of logic is that?

TH we do search everyone... isn't it a waste of time to do an extra search on the 70 year old lady who can barely lift her cane?

...common freakin sense...

focus your defense specific to their offense.

yoda

as has been very strongly demonstrated in Iraq, our enemy adapts to our efforts. They recognize what we are doing and develope tactics to adjust.

The maniacs have used or attempted to use old women and children as suicide bombers.

Profiling, yes would target the mohammed attas of the world but might by the jOhn walker lindh who might be able to "pass" through the profile.

"If I'm going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I'll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot."


is this hate speech? is this language that would incite violence? it seems to support terrorism? should the speaker be sent to Guantanamo bay?

have to run, will be back around noon.

TH, yes i understand they have adapted their tactics somewhat on the grounds in iraq. i read about the car bomb driven by ladies with kids in the back seat... however how often does that happen as opposed to a 20 something year old male with dark skin setting off a road bomb? i'd say the grand majority of attacks are carried out by the latter type of individual.

we already search everyone at the airport. we also do an 'extra search' that is chosen at random, and based on direct flights (vs roundtrip) etc and other criteria. i'm just suggesting that we quit bullshitting outselves and use that 'extra search' for specific reasons: direct flights paid in cash, all males in their 20s with dark skin.

it really only makes sense, any argument against it really doesn't contain logic, imho.




however this is the US homeland we are talking about,

on that 'extra search' i don't mean to suggest we ONLY search direct flights of males in their 20s. i'm merely suggesting we add a few specific details to the criteria and remove the random choosing. forget skin color if you need to, make it all males in their 20s.

"If I'm going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I'll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot."


is this hate speech? is this language that would incite violence? it seems to support terrorism? should the speaker be sent to Guantanamo bay?

Posted by truthhurts

thats a tough one. but look closely, it "wish" he had been killed....

this is different to that guy in england who admitedly and openly supports the operations carried about by the mujadeen fighters, and he admits that england must eventually follow sharia law.


..you can wish something happens without actually supporting the actions... i dunno its a thin line... but keep in mind one is ignorant political rhetoric and the other is a true believer.

..you can wish something happens without actually supporting the actions... i dunno its a thin line... but keep in mind one is ignorant political rhetoric and the other is a true believer.

Posted by Yodar013



and how is one to differentiate.

The speaker in this case has a history of similar comments against supreme court justices and the media. sounds like rob's definition of someone who should be deported to gitmo

i dunno, rob is a little quick to deport any suspected muslim off to gitmo....

if you went up to the speaker and directly asked him if he supports these actions, i doubt he would say yes.

thats an odd case, my point is that the difference between emtpy rhetoric and actual suport is easily realized with a thorough interview. and the latter should not be treated lightly.

why not search everyone?

Posted by truthhurts


This is the bullshit that comes out whenever you try to have an honest discussion about a profiling system... some liberal piece of shit always comes out of the woodwork and makes it sound like you would just search guys with turbins and everyone else gets to walk onto a plane, or train or into a stadium without so much as checking their ticket.

Nobody has ever and will ever suggest that... you still search everyone! But for the people who fit a certain profile, you search them extra. Yes Muslims will adapt to this, but the Blonde haired white guy from Arizona will still get searched by security... and what is easier for Muslims to get, blonde haired white guys from Arizona or some guy from Syria?

It is because of people like Truthhurts that this country and our allies will continue to get attacked by Muslims... Maybe we need to get rid of Liberals first, then deal with the Muslims...

rob's last statement was sarcastic. don't let that change the rest of what he said. this profiling issue is such a no-brainer that i don't even know why its even considered an issue.

in the effort to avoid any form of descrimination, the modern liberal has become utterly indescriminate.

there IS NO logic whatsoever that justifies not profiling. please try and articulate it if you can think of some form of logic. u will realize that you are simply going down the path of utter indescrimination.

rob's last statement was sarcastic.

SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let them think I want to round up liberals... its more fun that way...

Remember, this is just about a bumper sticker. The intentions of these individuals were just misunderstood. Its all Bushs fault.

Signed the Left.

I wish John Edwards, David Souter and the NY Times would all get blow up by an anthrax bomb.

Signed,

The Right-you know fake plastics.

very simple, you cannot discriminate and profiling leads to less security.

see by profiling you TELL your enemy who and what you are looking for. rather smart aint it. You see if they expect johnson sniffers, they keep their johnsons home. if the expect you to scrutinize dark haired brown skinned men, then they recruit blond haired pale skinned chicks to do their bidding.

logic-get used to it.

come on truth. please try and argue why profiling should not be allowed.

But for the people who fit a certain profile, you search them extra.


and put them on double secret probation while you are at it.

you whole point is stupid. You make the case that we are not adequately searching people if there are additional searches that can be conducted.

you argument is like saying a pregnant woman should be extra impregnated.

come on truth. please try and argue why profiling should not be allowed.

Posted by Yodar013


profiling does not work because your enemy is intelligent to see the limit of the profiling and adjust tactics to that profiling. That is simple enough.

your own logic fails you. Adequate searching should be conducted of everyone to assure they do not possess dangerous items.

The chief of security of the airport in Tel Aviv was asked in a "60 Minutes" interview, "To what do you attribute the fact that you've never had an incident on any Israeli flights?" He agave a simple, one word answer...."Profiling."
They even turned away the "shoe bomber" before he showed up on another aircraft later on.

please try and argue why profiling should not be allowed.

Profiling is just another investigative tool until a person is detained without further evidence of potential wrongdoing. No one is saying that certain factors should be ignored for the sake of fairness, but probable cause cannot be based on how one appears without further corroborating evidence of suspicion for any particular person to be stopped or detained in the normal course of life. If in doubt, clandestinely follow them and collect more evidence.

Many Muslims are Caucasian (see Chechnya), and to ignore this fact is as stupid as subjecting white-haired grandmas and their ilk to more intense scrutiny than brown-skinned Muslim males.

"very simple, you cannot discriminate and profiling leads to less security.

see by profiling you TELL your enemy who and what you are looking for. rather smart aint it. You see if they expect johnson sniffers, they keep their johnsons home. if the expect you to scrutinize dark haired brown skinned men, then they recruit blond haired pale skinned chicks to do their bidding.

logic-get used to it."

In other countries, profiling is called police work. Profiling can be done while keeping in mind that the enemy may adapt. Human intelligence boils down to the ability to recognize patterns and to predict future events based on those patterns. Ignoring the fact that people looking to hijack airplanes tend to have certain characteristics in common is wilfully stupid.

who is stating that consideration of who we are fighting should not be a consideration in investigating and protecting us? Noone except for righties who build strawmen to attack liberals.

After the fact alerts are very useful.

you argument is like saying a pregnant woman should be extra impregnated.

Posted by truthhurts


My wife and I are expecting and your pregnancy analogy supports profiling more then it takes away from it... Do you get monthly doctor appointments? After a period of 7 months to you have to go to bi-weekly doctors appointments? After a period of 8-9 months do you have to go to the doctor every week? No of course you don't because its not necessary, but a pregnant woman does because that is what her situation calls for.

You're also still acting like if the enemy adapts they'll walk right onto the plane (or whatever) because they don't fit the profile... that's alarmist liberal PC rhetoric. Everyone still goes through metal detectors, everyone still has their bags searched, everyone is still wanded if they set off the buzzer, and you'd even still throw in random bag searches like they do now. But people who fit a profile determined by experts in this type of stuff, will be pulled aside, asked further questions, and have every bag searched by hand.

What is freaking wrong with that? If they don't fit the profile they still get checked out by what is a pretty good system right now...

Many Muslims are Caucasian (see Chechnya), and to ignore this fact is as stupid as subjecting white-haired grandmas and their ilk to more intense scrutiny than brown-skinned Muslim males.

Posted by tonyroma


they would still be searched by all the security measures we have in place now. Nobody is saying, "don't search white guys."

A profiling system on 9/11 would have stopped the attacks, plain and simple.

rob impregnated a woman? oh dear god!

rob impregnated a woman? oh dear god!

Posted by truthhurts


Just brings up more of the shame you have for your son (daughter really) doesn't it?

rob impregnated a woman?

That's her story and she seems to be sticking to it.

Rob's buying into it, too.

Ahhhh, Spud kids. Spud's a kidder.

Actually looking forward to seeing if the new addition changes Rob into a more rational and mature being.

Not betting on it or anything, ya understand.

Profiling?

On a given level that's a no-brainer.

That sed, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about implementing such a program and Spud don't have high hopes they'll chose the right ways here.

Howsabout tighter security for everyone?

More money fer Interpol and the like.

Better data bases, bio-metrics, camera recognition systems, that kinda thing, increased security checks for baggage handlers and the like and closer monitoring of ports with more inspections and a secured border armed with guys with guns and not flippin' cameras.

Just off the top of me head.

Not recognising the Islamic component to terrorism is dumb.

That sed, further antagonising the Muslim world with official second class security status and continual demeaning searches will also cause blowback, of course.

It's a fine line.

Be Well.

Damn, Spudpup...couldn't find anything in that post to harp on. Are you just tryin' to appease those of us of the conservative ilk or am I in some kind of congenial mood today?

"That sed, further antagonising the Muslim world with official second class security status and continual demeaning searches will also cause blowback, of course"

Such fear mongering. We have not made an official second class status out of anyone. As far as blowback goes. We sure don't want to piss off the muslims b/c they might start blowing shit up.

Bani your stupid shit isn't even worth responding to, you ARE a dumb fuck.

Ray says "Those other countries have to do with local issues."

So stabbing Van Gough with a death threat to the whole country attached to the knife, was just a local issue. And the fake Muslimn outrage about those comics, what was that?

You blame all muslim rage...on the West? You are really ignoring facts aren't you.

And HOW can the dr left, billy boy clinton's cheering squad, ignoring that it was Bill Clinton and Janet Reno who burned down their complex??? Oh that's right Islamic appeasers do the end, the DR LEFT!