I think this is good news, Bush actually being open to not do something stupid.

Heck, I thought it was pretty big news! lol

Hey I wonder if they are sharing their PantySheild tips

Larry

I gues if he wants it, he should have the Russians design and build it. That would be fine by me.

Wait, what?

Who in the hell would fire a missile at Azerbaijan? I'm not spending a billion dollars to protect a heard of goats.
Just sounds like a way to piss away more of our money.

"I'd like to confirm what the president of the United States has said--except for one thing: I've not said that friends do not act in this way," Putin said, to which both laughed heartily and jostled each other.

Maybe Bushy can brand Pooty Poot on the butt with a hot coat hanger to seal the deal.

Actually if you look at a map and see where Iran and even North Korea is, it's a good place to defend Europe. Better than Poland anyway.

isn't "azerbaijan" what you say to make the genie appear??

Sniper
Who in the hell would fire a missile at Azerbaijan? -----
Sniper, how did you manage to type that message having a negative IQ?

sorry sniper, it should be addressed to norm

Russian President Vladimir Putin, bitterly opposed to a U.S. missile shield in Europe, told President Bush on Thursday that Moscow would drop its objections if the radar-based system were installed in Azerbaijan.

In other words, Putis is bitterly opposed to it unless he can get the US taxpayers to help pay for defending Russia so russains don't have to.

Once again, the US is put in the position of having to defend the world (and pay for it) so other nations don't have to pay near what they should have to for their own military, their own defense of their borders.

BOWA

What were you smoking for the past 20 years (though looking at your idiotic comment you are 10-15 years short of 20)? US defending Russia? "US is put in the position of defending world...". Get out of IRAQ for a start. NOBODY has asked US to be there. EVERYBODY except Bulgarians and UK told US not to do it. The only reason US spends taxpayers money to fight wars around the globe is because it has a large number of morons like you who think someone has asked them. If you hear voices - try getting off crack first

So, Putin wants the missile defense system that doesn't work which is designed to protect against missiles that don't exist place in Azerbaijan.
Who cares as long as the defense contractor who makes the system gets paid. Military Industrial Complex run amok.

Once again, the US is put in the position of having to defend the world (and pay for it) so other nations don't have to pay near what they should have to for their own military, their own defense of their borders. -Bowa

Defend the world? Against what planet?
The system Bush/Cheney wants is designed, if that is the word, to defend the USA. Period. From what? Imagined ballistic missiles from "rogue states" as opposed to all the countries we have encouraged to develop nuclear weapons and sold arms to.

And this is the same administration that walked out of our treaty with Russia on ballistic missiles.

"Peace" is the word Bush/Cheney hates with a pssion.

there are many countries that have begged to have the US military come and be a presence. we have signed countless (pre-nub like) agreements with countless third world countries to the tune that if we were to send our troops in, we would not be subject to the ICC. the US military has been the policeman of the world for the past several decades. iraq is one fuckup amoung many military interventions. if you didn't know that/understand it, then you really don't have a realistic picture of the overall global military situation.

So, Putin wants the missile defense system that doesn't work which is designed to protect against missiles that don't exist place in Azerbaijan.

Posted by danni

How do you know it dosen't work? I guess we should wait until they hit NYC with a missile before we start developing anything to shoot them down with.

I think we should develope the system but I don't think we should pay for putting the things anywhere but in the US. If another country wants a system, let them develope it and pay for it themselves.

ps: these countries sign these agreements because they are preying that we decide to go in and supply them with food,shelter,equipment, infrastructure, protection etc.

i'll never forget my best friend (typical screaming liberal like many of you who thought she understood the global situation), went to U PENN freshman year and got a roomate from zimbabwe. she was blown away by the fact that this little girl told stories of her father and other politicians BEGGING the US to come and be a presence.

she couldn't even fathom the fact that our country helps more people around the world then most all other countries combined. america isn't all that bad people, we do have our quarks to work out too of course.

sniper, the missile defense system has been successful at shooting down our own missiles. well, our own missiles can hit their targets from thousands of miles away to within a few feet.

the old soviet missiles, and consequently most around the world, are fired TOWARD the target, once they are on the descending part of their flight, they often flip ass over tip, tip over ass. well, if its a nuke, then it doens't need to be super accurate. but these very NON-precise missiles make it very difficult for out intercepting missiles to find because they are so unpredictable.

now as to why we are putting them in europe, there are many good reasons. one being that europe is/will be the first area to receive the majority of terrorist attacks because of its proximity to the ME. why not have the missile defense system in place where it will be usefull and operational. this way it may get some LIVE excercise.

makes sense russia has it's own problems with radical islam --it's agreement with iran could go south anytime iran decides to back cheytnians openly
jasman

its already gone south due to international pressure. although moscow would never admit it so they blame it on monetary reasons.

skrew putin for supplying them in the first place.

Yod, we have been able to hit out own missiles for many years, as far back as the late 60s. As far as I know we have tested on all kinds of hardware, not just on ICBMs.

I don't aggree with you on the fact we have to defend Europe. If they are aqs great as the libs would have us believe, they can do it themselves. We have saved their sorry asses through 2 wars and they still hate us. Let them take care of their own problems with their strong euro, not our week dollar.

2 YODAR13, SNIPER and others...

the question is about placement of RADAR! which is detecting launches and calculates trajectories. What you decide to do with incoming missiles after they have been detected is up to you. Putin didnt propose to put anything but a radar in Azerbaijan. DOH... now try to think... ok, now try to think again...

2 Yodar13
"iraq is one fuckup amoung many military interventions. if you didn't know that/understand it, then you really don't have a realistic picture of the overall global military situation."----------
Do you mean on FUP among many successes? Or do you mean one FUP among many military FUPS like Afghanistan, Vietnam, Somalia, Korea and non-military FUPS like Israel, Yugoslavia, Iran, India/Pakistan?

Sniper
europe injoys their standin in the eyes of libs because throughout the cold war they didn't have to spend their resources on defense the us provided for their defense-it is time to stop thinkin of them as adults(adults protect themselves)and worrin bout what they think
jasman

Jasman
Who are "cheytnians" are these are followers of Dick Cheney? If you think Hattab is same as Iran you should join Bush thinktank. Fit right in by inventing crap like that. You probably dont remember that Russians recently sold air defense systems to Iran. They are so scared of them now...

your last comment "screw Putin" is bang on. that is why Bush now looks stupider than ever as he kept saying that this installation is not a threat to Russia when it actually is...

sniper, good point. i somewhat agree.

idiotbush, i knew it was radar, whats ur pompus point?

idiot: i wouldn't call afghanistan a total FUP. nam, sure. somalia, thanks clinton. korea, how was that a FUP? israel could be discussed forever. yugoslavia was a mess to begin with (and an ex president lives down the street from where i grew up btw, in pasadena). iran is a whole different scenario, i personaly think that mahmood imanutjob WANTS us to attack him so that he can win over the moderate young generation. india pakistan? we have made it clear to them that we don't support one over the either, and that if both start to fuel their nukes, we will strategicaly take out ALL nuclear installations on both sides.

do you think those are the only countries that the US military has been involved in? or are those only the ones you can think of? .... good news doesn't get reported as often, you have to actually research.

idiot: how is it a threat to russia? why would we ever need to threaten russia? putin is an idiot because he doens't understand that ther IS NO balance of power. only one power. he doesn't want to admit to his people that great power war has ceased to exist. he knows it but would rather stir up all this crap with rhetoric in order to make himself look strong.

typical russian mentality, who cares what the truth is, the most important thing is the perceived strength of 'mother russia'.

the fat cunt...

idiot: bty stupider is not a word and is only self-serving....

second, they just told us about their RS24 missiles. the ones that break off into 5 different warheads and attack individual targets. our defense system can't touch that, so again, how is it a threat to putin?

YODAR013
why is NATO now in Baltic states? Against whom is it there? Clearly not against Russia as according to you it is no threat to the only super power in world (btw keep thinking that way, dont pay attention to the fact that you already sold your country for cheep Chinees plastic toys). Why is US out of ABM treaty?

If you proud that US since WW2 started more than 40 military conflicts around the world you are a sad case.

p.S. better to be a fat cunt than fat stupid cunt.

p.p.s. keep Bush in power - even if Russians tried they could not do so much damage to US...

"In other words, Putis is bitterly opposed to it unless he can get the US taxpayers to help pay for defending Russia so russains don't have to."

As if putting the thing in Europe makes any more sense. Why should the US taxpayer work to defend Europe? The reason they can afford all the social programs we can't is because we pay for their defense. And they hate us for it. Maybe Americans would be better off spending our money to help Americans. Bush is an asshole for trying to spend out money like this in the first place - especially considering the defict he's running.

And from a military standpoint, an alliance with Russia would be much more effective than NATO. We should be courting them.

idiot: what grand country are you from?

would you rather live in russia or the US?

ps: bush has served two terms. he can't stay in power.

YODAR013
i have lived in both and don't live in either of the two now. and the answer to your question is "no, i would not prefer to live in the US as mentality of blind belief in self rightness and inability to question yourself smells just like communist dogmas"

answers to ur brilliant Qs:

because those states want to be in it.

against nobody.

btw, we haven't sold out, the US and China has played the rest of the world for fools with our trading scheme. study it a bit more before making an ass out of urself.

we are out of the treaty for obvious reasons: the cold war is VERY over. and we have rogue states with missiles to protect ourselves and the western world from.

i am proud that the US has been involved and the leader in resolving countless military conflicts (and other types) around the world. its time other countries have stepped up, but i'm damn proud of our men and woman in service.

if you think we are so stupid then how come we are by far the most powerful country in the world? again, what great nation do you come from?

the russians have tried a lot, and rarely succeed. their current growth is solely based on oil revenues.... wow, so admirable. they rank of there with ME countries now.

men and women... there are more than just one...

Yodar, are you high?

YEAH!

What idiocy!

The Fake Plastic premise to this says it all!

A "US" missile defense in "Europe"?


When did Europe become part of the US and when the hell did "conservatives" claim they need to defend the world?

Oh, that's right! They aren't "conservative" at all --- their just fake ass posers calling themselves "conservative" so they can rape the common trust!

Strange how the very same people who berate "Europe" are so anxious to give them stuff!!!!! Our stuff! Like American tax dollars!

You Fake Plastic Sons of Bitchs should be lined up and shot!

US as mentality of blind belief in self rightness and inability to question yourself smells just like communist dogmas"

-idiot

who are you? have you not read a single post on this website? our democrats question themselves so much that they can't even find one issue to unite on! and the repubs are just the opposite.

don't compare us to communist dogma, u just look silly.

high on life

I am surprised that after Putin proposed this deal Bush didn't say, "let me go back and see if Dick (Cheney) thinks this is ok."

u see idiot, just look ar redneckville, he comes in here and posts his thoughts, questioning the US etc etc... did that sound like communist dogma?

redneck, good point.

That was his "note to self" Taxman

again i ask you idiot, unless you are too ashamed.... what great country do you live in now?

anyways, have a great weekend everybody, i'm headed home... gotta love these 'summer fridays' at work.

if you think we are so stupid then how come we are by far the most powerful country in the world?
Posted by Yodar013 at 2007-06-08 12:24 PM

YEAH!

Depends on how you measure "power" don't it!

UBL has no military and no economic juggernaut ---- however he has made people like you cower in fear to the point of undermining our very own liberties! Turned you against your neighbor even, made you irrational (hence why you can't see the obvious that YOU are helping the terrorist by propagating fear and nonsense like "missile defense")

But anyway, what I find amusing in you is that I thought the last fifty years of "liberal" government had ruined us according to your ilk?
Destroyed our country, faith, military and all that?

But let me guess, Bush has fixed all that right! Of course, you have to forget beforehand that this is the same man who after five years on one project, still hasn't completed it OR been able to properly prepare and fund it!

Yup, that must be it (sounds about right in Bush World Rationale)

YEAH!

A missile defense would have prevented 9-11!

Yup, a missile defense is going to stop a truck bomb, or chemical release, or defend a petrochemical plant!

Yup, that's it!

Fact is it's just another scheme to loot the public trust in the guise of keeping you safe?

Safe from what I don't know!

Considering the Fake Plastics are calling this a "Fight for our Way of Life" and a "Struggle against good and evil" on par with WW2 ---- no sacrifice has been asked of the American people to date!

No rationing, no resource conservation, no material drives, no rationing of fuel --- no fucking nothing!

Just "go shopping" is all we hear!

Now if we were in a fight for our lives, don't you think we would stop forking over cash the very terrorist we claim is out to destroy us? Like fuel rationing (so we don't fund the terrorist in the first place)?
Maybe a national call for scrap metals to build more armored vehicles? Maybe a moratorium on cars so their production can be oriented towards the war effort?

Having just built a house, and having heard over and over again why steel and concrete prices are driven up by "China" and "India" buying it all, it seems strange, that in a "fight for our lives" and resources are scarce that we would put a moratorium on those things needed for the "fight for our lives"!

When these things are measured, when they are compared (rhetoric to action) its just more proof that we are being manipulated! When you look at what's being said to what's being done it just doesn't make any sense at all!

"Yod, we have been able to hit out own missiles for many years, as far back as the late 60s. As far as I know we have tested on all kinds of hardware, not just on ICBMs.

I don't aggree with you on the fact we have to defend Europe. If they are aqs great as the libs would have us believe, they can do it themselves. We have saved their sorry asses through 2 wars and they still hate us. Let them take care of their own problems with their strong euro, not our week dollar.

Posted by Sniper"

Sniper, anti-missile defence systems have knocked out stationary targets, they've knocked out targets in controlled tests but in actual practice they've been less than successful. Consider the Patriot missile system that had an incredibly dismal success rate during the Gulf War. Or the super lasers that needed so much power and a stable platform that they were considered a good idea but little more. All an enemy would have to do is fire enough missiles to overwhelm the system (which isn't hard to do) or not deliver their weapons by missiles (which renders the system as useful as a Nintendo 64).

You also seem to be misled on the US role during the Great War and World War Two. The Great War was the last war of European monarchies - the US entered it when it was practically over and didn't really do much except help spread Spanish Influenza at the end. World War Two was far different. I'm sure you think that fighting Japan was saving Europe somehow but it was more than that. The US profited from World War Two (a war they entered late, again).

The other Allies were fighting fascists for years before the US joined in. There were US industrialists that supported the Nazi's and the rest of your country didn't want to get involved in a "foreign war." It was only the clear thinking of a few that realized that if Europe and the Soviet Union fell then it was entirely likely that the Americas would be the next target. I believe that anyone who doesn't believe fascism had to be stopped and beaten back doesn't deserve the freedoms they enjoyed up until George Bush Jr. was elected.

YODAR013

Hey, the reachest country in the world. How come your own people in New Orleans are living without roofs over their heads?



p.s. you have not "been involved" you have started more than 40 military conflicts. there is a difference.
p.s. "the US and China has played the rest of the world for fools with our trading scheme". interesting... THAT is why Henry Paulson begs China to free yuan. forgive me i am so stupid. i didn't know they accumulated 10% of your GDP in treasury bills just to play a joke on the rest of the world... brilliant
p.p.s. i leave in the country where one pays no taxes

and more. Russia and other emerging markets do make living of energy but guess what... when you drive today remember who lent you money to buy this fuel (it is China, Russia, Brazil etc). Dont fool yourself into thinking you have paid for it. You haven't yet. That is why US is running deficits at every level (no! wait! - US is getting better! trade deficit this month is only $58.5bn ! keep going that is an improvement - only $720bn in the hole for the year...) doh...

red, first off i don't cower in fear.... and i am okay with giving up SOME civil liberties... such as the wiretapping. it sucks but until does more harm than good, i'm all for it.

second, don't refer to me and my ilk... i'm not a repub or democrat. and im very proud of our growth over the past 4 decades.

i never said the missile defense system will protect us from all threats. but it could eventually protect us from any missile threat.

good point about the rationing.. bush should have pushed that immediately after 911 when the country was willing to change....

but i do agree with the keep spending bit, yes we should ration oil and push for alternative fuel etc, but our spending power is a big part of what keeps pushing our economy.

as far as the steel prices etc, thats just a natural result of the increasing demand. simple economics, and the fact that its happening on the world scale simply demonstrates the fluidity of the international markets.... a good sign.

YODAR013
and when one is spending more than one is producing where do money come from?

investment through security.

generico, yes there were some industrialists that supported hitler, but to say THAT is the reason we entered late is crazy. we didn't get in because simply the people here didn't want to go to war. FDR didnt' want to side with england over other european nations, nor did he want to lead americans into another european war. later on we did obviously.

idiot re NO: to quote the brilliant kanye west: "because bush doesn't like black people."

lol

PS: we've given more foreign aid than any other country by far. i think the grand majority of our military interventions have been successful, counting the small scale ones, you think not, okay fine.

yes, now we want the won to slowly appreciate to its true level. having it pegged so low this whole has enabled the average american to be able to afford many goods otherwise unatainable. now as it slowly rises, the chinese will own less of our treasury (from their POV) and we have to get used to a rising CPI. however, its not a bad thing, being the worlds "savings bank", the chinese and others won't diversify because then their existing tens of billions will quickly depreciate.

our deficit is not a great thing, but its not horrible either. it'll have a soft landing over the next few decades, nothing to fret over.

US troops have landed in Europe only after Russia started pushing nazis back (post Stalingrad). who knows why US joined but one reason must have been to make sure soviets dont get the entire Europe (French resistance would not be a problem as Russian army occupied Paris once before).

YODAR013. You seem to know economics. Give me the answer to what will happen to US interest rates in your scenario? Soft landing into where? well again if you are prepared to work without pension and healthcare for the next couple of decades and pay back for cheap plastic toys and russian oil it will be fine by them.

btw won is for Korea. Korea is a different country to China.

p.s. small ones 3,5k soldiers and 300k civilians dead in Iraq, how many in nam? pls run me through succesfull military operations once again.
p.p.s. foreign aid to how many countries? economic sanctions to how many countries?

oh ! K Rice just said the US will not accept Putin's offer. So now all pretense is gone and everybody knows what this defense installation is all about

we all know i can't spell --does russia have a problem with racical islam yes or no----are the iranians true and loyal allies(ask the isrealis who supplied them with spare parts in the iran iraq war)
jasman

(French resistance would not be a problem as Russian army occupied Paris once before).

Posted by idiotbush

-redundant?

i rates will be low, but nothing drastic. pension-i got 401k, ira. healthcare?? the democrats are gonna take care of that! we'll keep getting ME oil. won is another way of spelling yuan in english, maybe the improper one, but still refers to china. those are the two biggest ones, do the research yourself. emergency aid to how many countries?

its all about putting it where we want to.

russia has always had a problem with radical islam.

iranians true allies???

You also seem to be misled on the US role during the Great War and World War Two. The Great War was the last war of European monarchies - the US entered it when it was practically over and didn't really do much except help spread Spanish Influenza at the end. World War Two was far different. I'm sure you think that fighting Japan was saving Europe somehow but it was more than that. The US profited from World War Two (a war they entered late, again).

Posted by Generico

You seem to forget that the Germans had taken North Africa and France and were on the door-steep of England. We had been supplying England long before we entered with troops.

If you don't think we were the turning point in WWII then you are reading different history books than I did. The Russians would have never over-run Eastern Europe if Germany wasn't fighting on 2 fronts at the same time. Fighting Japan just slowed down what was happening in Europe. I never have figured out why they attack us at Pearl.

In the long run, how did we profit from WWII? Just look at what it has cost us to be in Europe for the last 60 years defending their sorry asses from Russia.

Back to the ABMs, it is a lot easier to defend against ICBMs which there arn' many of than it is to defend against small, short range missiles. If we could knock a Minute Man out of the sky in the late 60s why can't we do it now? It has to be hit before the multiple wareheads deploy.

japan attacked us for control of the pacifc, via their navy, and as a result, the oil supply.

in an ironic way we kinda profited from WW 2. not the way idiot is thinking, and certainly not from the war itself, but from the clear military dominance as a result.