Cars Now Outsell Trucks | Drudge Retort

I hear they soak up a lot of water as well.

And blood.

The tariff is leading Detriot to its own demise...

The tariff in effect keeps American jobs in the short term, but long term the tariff is hurting the companies, due to wrong focus. Because the profits are rigged for what the government wants, rather than on what the market wants.

Reminds me how tariffs and quotas were used to protect the steel industry for decades. The problem was it hurt the auto industry because they had to buy the higher priced steel.

I'll be downsizing next time I need to purchase a new vehicle.

No need for such a big van now that my older kids are grown and on their own.

I'll be glad when I don't have to spend so much to fill my tank.

"Reminds me how tariffs and quotas were used to protect the steel industry for decades. The problem was it hurt the auto industry because they had to buy the higher priced steel."

And I agree with your comment, Ray. Makes sense.

Well, the thing that's hurting the American auto industry now is the ridiculously high cost of health care vs. the Japanese competition.

Check this out. Health care costs:

Toyota: $200 per car
GM: over $1500 per car

Lee Iacocca talks with Fortune senior editor Alex Taylor about why a Chrysler buyout would break his heart. (April 16)

Apocalypto,

How true that is, not that the big three didn't want the tariff, but the UAW was involved and still wants the tariff too.

www.local2209.org

The UAW started out with good intentions, but perhaps they became a little to greedy too.

Hmmmmm!

Wonder how many cars the U.S. manufacturers are allowed to sell in the car making countries.

Bet those countries have tariffs that don't allow even profits.

But you people continue bitching about fair trade in cars and why the U.S. is not competing.

Never seen so many stupid people.

Money,

Japan does not have a tariff.....

www.apectariff.org

"Japan does not have a tariff....."

No, but they do have universal healthcare, which gives them a big advantage. I'm wondering how long it'll take for the Bush regime to go to the WTO and claim universal healthcare is an unfair trade advantage.

"In other words tariffs are keeping the price of trucks high enough for excellent profits, yet not high enough for foreign competition to profit. Thus Ford/GM actually focuses more of its sales,marketing and engineering on trucks and SUV."

Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Isuzu all build their trucks in the U.S.

Another retard tries to explain the world to fellow Liberals.

Bet those countries have tariffs that don't allow even profits.

Posted by moneywar at 2007-06-02 09:43 PM | Reply

Largest carmaker in China is General Motors. Same in Europe.

Another retard tries to explain the world to fellow Liberals.

Andreaidiot,

That doesn't say crap.

They don't use tariffs they use restrictions so tough that it is impossible to market.

But think you know this but are looking to spout some type of rhetoric.

"Well, the thing that's hurting the American auto industry now is the ridiculously high cost of health care vs. the Japanese competition..."

Posted by Apocalypto at 2007-06-02 09:19 PM

I will certainly agree that the cost of healthcare does have a dramatic effect on an Automaker's profit margin. However, with that said, how much consideration have you actually given to the impact of the ridiculously inflating gas prices and its overwhelming effects on the average American's ability to fund a modest budget?

Money,

I agree there are restriction, but price nor tariff is not one of them.....

The size of the car is a big one, but we have used the tariff to cripple our abiity to design and build small cars. Which is why the GeoMetro was made by Suzuki. Also I need to research this but the Aveo I think is a Suzuki as well. In other words GM doesn't make a car the people want.

The tariff, is why the Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Isuzu all build their trucks in the U.S. This much is obvious, and soon the margins are going to fall.

We have taught ourselves to be good at building trucks......

In the future which one is going to sell more ? cars or trucks.....

I agree Billy health care cost is important, and does play a factor....
BTW: did you see the CD yoshi's put out ?

However, with that said, how much consideration have you actually given to the impact of the ridiculously inflating gas prices and its overwhelming effects on the average American's ability to fund a modest budget?

Posted by MsChris

Uh, did you listen to the Iacocca interview or are you talking out of your butt? Go for it. Take up your concept with Lee Iacocca. It would be fun to see you debate this issue with a man who has 35 years of experience in the auto industry. Smartass.

"35 years of experience in the auto industry."

The Thunderbird happened in 1956.
It was Lee's baby.

Do the math.

PS
I loved Lee's reference to the moron who complained the T-Bird's seat belts were "uncomfortable to sit on".

"Do the math"

You're right. I botched the numbers. Iacocca joined Ford in the early 50's and left Chrysler in 93. In other words, he had well over 35 years of experience, which only lends more credence to the argument in my previous post.

My best buddy in the 60's had a '56 T-Bird.

It was black with red seats.
And it had seat belts.

Waco, Texas, 1964.

He had a really groovy uncle.
Uncle Gordon.

"Gordon Teal wasn't there for the birth of the transistor -- he didn't work in the Shockley lab when it was first invented -- but he helped the transistor grow to its full potential. While working at Bell Labs, Teal figured out how to grow the pure germanium crystals necessary for the junction transistor and later, after he had moved to Texas Instruments, he built the first working silicon transistor.

Teal grew up in Texas, went to Baylor University for his undergraduate degree, and earned his Ph.D. in physical chemistry from Brown University. While at Brown in the late 1920s, he had done research on germanium, which he said fascinated him by its pure uselessness. Of course, germanium didn't turn out to be so useless years later, when he was working at Bell Labs. Teal worked in the Chemical Research Department at Bell, and he was occasionally asked to grow crystals for work being done down the hall in the group working on the transistor.

Teal was fascinated by the transistor, and he knew he could grow better crystals than the ones he'd been asked to. Through sheer stubbornness, he continued working on purifying crystals even though it took him a while to convince anyone in the Shockley lab that his new method of crystal growing was important. In the end, however, it was Teal's special crystals that turned Shockley's vision of an improved transistor into a reality.

In 1952, Teal answered a want ad in the New York Times for a job at Texas Instruments. Teal wanted to move back to Texas and he knew that TI had attended a transistor workshop at Bell Labs to learn how to build transistors. Teal was hired on as director of the TI research department, and in many ways he was the spark that turned Texas Instruments into the company it is today. Once he was hired, other top-notch scientists soon joined the team. Most importantly, within two years, Teal had built the first silicon transistor, which catapulted the small start-up company into the limelight. "
www.pbs.org

Real Texans kick ass.

Bush is a "God Damned Carpetbagger".
(That's according to my late mother-in-law. RCADE knows who she was.)

BTW
If you haven't read "Iacocca", you really should.

APOCALYPTO,

Hmmm..."smartass". Very creative and thoughtful too. Thank you.
Allow me to clarify, my post was simply trying to assess your thoughts on the American auto industry, with direct regard to the impact of the current inflating gas prices.

"I will certainly agree that the cost of healthcare does have a dramatic effect on an Automaker's profit margin..."
Posted by MsChris at 2007-06-02 10:37 PM

Let me get this straight...I'm "talking out my butt" when I agreed with your post AND I'm a "smartass" for making an inquiry? Okay, fair enough.

Gees, I suppose, I should apologize for offending you...
So, first and foremost, I am very sorry that I agreed with you and I vow to never make another inquiry as to your thoughts and opinions on any other topics in the future. I hope you do find acceptance.

Again, my apologies.

-MsChris

"The size of the car is a big one, but we have used the tariff to cripple our abiity to design and build small cars. Which is why the GeoMetro was made by Suzuki. Also I need to research this but the Aveo I think is a Suzuki as well."

Posted by AndreaMackris

To my knowledge, Geo was a joint venture between Chevrolet and Suzuki (Metro and the little Tracker SUV), and Chevrolet and Toyota (Prism). Chevrolet learned how these were built and used the info for their own lines of vehicles. The Metro didn't do very well in sales and was dropped, but the Tracker did OK and later years got its own "Bowtie" and they dropped the Geo emblem. The Prism did OK, but Chevrolet used the gained technology to put into their own line of cars. Prism was discontinued too. Don't know about the Aveo. Why does a tariff cripple the ability to design and build a small car? The Chevrolet Cavalier has been around quite a while.

"In other words GM doesn't make a car the people want."

Posted by AndreaMackris

Oh really:
"Among the most popular cars, sales of the Honda Civic rose 32.6 percent in May to set a new record, while sales of the Chevrolet Impala rose 44.7 percent.", according the article.

"The tariff, is why the Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Isuzu all build their trucks in the U.S. This much is obvious, and soon the margins are going to fall."

Posted by AndreaMackris

I believe they ASSEMBLE the vehicles here, but import the parts (tariffs), which means costs to build and repair will remain high -VS- American made.

You also have to consider the price difference between a truck -VS- car. There is usually more room for mark up on a truck than a car, unless you are looking at, say a Corvette ($50,000-$60,000). Go to a dealership and see how much they are willing to come down on the price of a truck -VS- a small car. Common sense, the higher the price; the more the mark up and the lower the price; less mark up.

Also, go check out the fuel mileage of some of the 2007 GM's. You might be surprised.

However, the Big Three still have some big problems ahead.

Food for thought.

Everyone I know keeps buying bigger and bigger cars and spending more on gas and never cared. It doesn't matter if they drive far to work or not. Many have 4 wheel drive and have never use for it because they never are in a situation to use it in the big city.

The bigger the car the more the repairs and expensive and frequent the maintenance. In addition the wheelbase is the same as the midsized car with a higher center of gravity and thereby making them far unsafe than any other country on the road.

What makes me laugh is when a parent with not technical ability to understand that when they say they purchased an SUV because it was more convenient and safer for their children.

Unfortunately, for the reason I mentioned above, SUV's actually have more serious accidents as a percentage of cars on the road because they can flip and roll far easier than any other car on the road. In some cases, wind has been known to blow them over. All you have to do is look at Law Enforcement or Insurance compiled statistics on auto accidents and deaths.

When you consider the added cost for the vehicles, insurance, registration, gas, maintenance, extra trips to buy gas; it comes out to an additional $4K-$5K a year.

I don't know what I would do, it I lost a child if I was trying to change lanes and hit a smaller car I couldn't see and my SUV would flip. I don't believe I could live with myself knowing this information-that is why I never did that.

In the US regardless of what car you purchase today or the model or brand, you car will be considerable larger that they were in 10 years ago. Oil companies are continuing to raise the price of gas because they are seeing no sign of less gas being used when they raise the prices.

One interesting case in point is there are now solar energy kits for cars that cost between $2K-$4K that will add an additional 10 real Mpg to hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius, Highlander Hybrid and the Ford Escape Hybrid. That works out to about the first 40 miles of a commute on car batteries rather than gas. The 10 MPG is probably about what real gas mileage more SUV and possibly slightly worse than many Sedans on the road today.

Every time I open the newspaper, I see Toyota is doing something to continue to improve the gas mileage and capability of the car while other Hybrids are not doing as well and gas mileage isn't much better than their gas counterparts and look less appealing to me.

My next car will be a hybrid-hopefully by the time I buy it; the cars will be able to be even more economical and efficient. My hope in the future is public transportation would be so good, people would not need cars and money that now goes to car insurance can be used to support maintaining the transportation system.

The bottom line is if US companies refuse to invest in R & D to meet the demands of society around the world; it's competition will.

Just how the US can have poorer quality vehicle than it's foreign counterparts that have more US made parts than the US companies, is beyond me.

Now you have a situation where US companies were so lazy to bank all their resources on one or two cars and basically give up the market on everything else. When the market turns or your product creates too much carbon or society changes it's values, US car companies have no fall back position.

US companies had a good jump on the electric car and then buried it. Now the competition is blowing them out of the water.

In 1994, General Motors acquired a controlling interest in Ovonics's battery development and manufacturing, including patents and trade secrets controlling the manufacturing of large nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries. In 2001, Texaco purchased GM's share in GM Ovonics. A few months later, Chevron acquired Texaco. In 2003, Texaco Ovonics Battery Systems was changed to Cobasys, a 50/50 joint venture between Chevron and Energy Conversion Devices (ECD) Ovonics.[52] Large-format NiMH batteries were commercially viable and ready for mass production, but Chevron and other oil-related interests suppressed the technology to forestall the introduction of plug-in hybrids.

Not quite on topic but something to think about. An excellent reason for forcing oil companies to divest themselves of any interest in alternative energy technologies. They can't be trusted with the means of their own demise; who could?

en.wikipedia.org

I'm holding out on my new car purchase, waiting for hydrogen fuel technology to become affordable. Until then, I will be updating with slightly used vehicles.

My fifteen-year-old Toyota (1.4L, 5-speed) gets 29 m/g in the city (25-30 mph) and 41 m/g on the highway (45-65 mph). My wife's 14-year-old Explorer (4.0L, automatic) gets fifteen in the city and 21 on the highway under the same conditions. We plan to drive them until their doors fall off!

NJDevil, you may have a hell of a wait.

Fuel cell technology still has a long way to go before becoming viable.

You're better off waiting a few years as hybrid technology improves.

Or, you could just get one of these now:

www.teslamotors.com

Until then, I will be updating with slightly used vehicles.

Posted by NJDevil at 2007-06-03 09:24 AM | Reply

Oh good! Another fool ready to buy the car that I abuse for three years. Thank you!

I believe they ASSEMBLE the vehicles here, but import the parts (tariffs), which means costs to build and repair will remain high -VS- American made.

Posted by JustMe13 at 2007-06-03 05:48 AM | Reply

WRONG! Most parts are made in the U.S. Imported parts are not subject to tariff.

Another retard trying to explain to fellow Liberals how the world works.

JustMe, from the article linked below:

"Honda's Ohio-built Accord is 70% domestic parts."

"Among Japanese brands, Honda had the most domestic content at 59%."

"General Motors promotes its trucks in TV commercials to strains of This Is Our Country but makes some of its best-known SUVs in Mexico."

www.usatoday.com

I looked for the article cited in your post RE: Impala sales, and although I found similars, I couldn't locate your source. Got a link?

My initial thought to your post was to look at sheer volume, i.e., is a 44 percent rise meaningful if you're only moving a few thousands units. I couldn't find real numbers though, so much for being a wiseguy 8)

I think the quality and value of brands depends largely on the buyer's perspective. I label myself discerning when it comes to cars (I tallied the number of new cars I've owned since 1986, and it's over 15), and having rented innumerable domestics while traveling I can say without hesitation that none of them would ever meet my standards.

And once you get past the initial quality surveys that the domestics like to tout, you'll find categorically that they aren't nearly as reliable as the Japanese. Resale values are also abyssmal for domestic products (save a few high-end products such as the 'Vette and Viper, etc.).

I just don't think the domestic manufacturers "get it." I realize the extra overhead they're dealing with (and whose fault is that? It takes two to tango), but even with that taken into account, the Big Three have almost always had to offer significant incentives to move passenger cars in recent times.

There' a reason why the Accord and Camry dominate passenger car sales, and it has nothing to do with health plans or unions (both aforementioned are built by UAW).

Here's an interesting story (at least to me...).

I'm currently driving a BMW X5 4.4 (V8). Previously I had the smaller X3 with the 3.0 litre six. I am averaging just under 19 mpg with the larger and heavier X5, but mileage was actually poorer (about 17) with the X3. Since my average speed is about 35 mph, I would say these qualify as city mpg ratings. Smaller engines and lighter cars don't always equate to better fuel consumption. Engine torque plays a significant role.

Take, for example, Mazda's RX-8 sports car. It is EPA rated at 19/24, about a mpg better than my big evil SUV. I've looked at smaller SUVs lately, and surprisingly, some of the smaller ones with both six and four cylinder engines produce negligible mileage gains over what I have currently.

I have about another year left on my current lease. I'm thinking of the new CR-V or the Acura RDX -- Anyone have one of these?

Oh good! Another fool ready to buy the car that I abuse for three years. Thank you!

Posted by vernon

I buy a new truck from Vernon every year.... i get a great deal each and every time and the extended warrantee's are a must.......

"I looked for the article cited in your post RE: Impala sales, and although I found similars, I couldn't locate your source. Got a link?"

Posted by evashogouki

Yes, the article associated with this thread.

Vernon:
I will admit that buying a used vehicle can be risky. I haven't had a bad experience yet, and there a few things that you should keep in mind when doing so. First, never act in desperation. Don't wait to go shopping when your current car has had it's day. Second, if a deal is too good to be true, it probably is. Third, examine the seller of the car and his surroundings. Does he neglect his house? What does he do for a living? (don't buy from someone who makes a living doing auto body work for starters). Is the sellers name and address on the title? If not, run away quickly. Always ask why they are selling it, and try to read the body language when they tell you. Then, ask a follow up question relating to that question a bit later in the conversation, and check for inconsistency in the story.
Also, there are many things that you can look for to determine if the car was wrecked, on fire, or in a flood. High mileage can also be determined by looking at things other than the odometer.

I believe they ASSEMBLE the vehicles here, but import the parts (tariffs), which means costs to build and repair will remain high -VS- American made.

Posted by JustMe13 at 2007-06-03 05:48 AM | Reply

WRONG! Most parts are made in the U.S. Imported parts are not subject to tariff.

Posted by vernon

I stand corrected, well by you know who. Good, now maybe the cost to repair will be less too.

evashogouki,

Glad to know that they have become so domestic. I was just relating the costs, not knocking them.

And I never said anything about GM being all made in the USA. GM has had engines made in Mexico and Canada for years. We were getting GM replacement engines, for repairs, from Mexico in the early '70's.

And yes, you need to shop around for quality.

Toyota and Honda have started to offer incentives to sell their car/trucks too. That was in the article associated with this thread.

FYI, my X5 is built in South Carolina. It's also the best-assembled and quietest vehicle I've owned.

"BMW Manufacturing Co., LLC in South Carolina is part of BMW Group's global manufacturing network and is the exclusive manufacturing plant for all BMW Z4 Roadster and X5 Sports Activity Vehicles."

Again, my apologies.

-MsChris

Sorry, MsChris. I misunderstood the intention behind your post.

Some journalists in Detroit believe the end of the UAW is near. Let's see how that plays out.

American cars are still good. I think they can easily compete with the Japanese if they get some of their costs under control and start building new models with real substance and innovation. Americans just need to step up and put their heads together. They're not going to win with all the infighting between union and management.

The contracts are coming up this September. More job action is the last thing the companies and the workers need. The Japanese watch that stuff happening, scratch their heads and get back to work.

U.S. auto market headed for turbulent 2007

"my X5 is built in South Carolina. It's also the best-assembled and quietest vehicle I've owned."

Posted by evashogouki

A buddy of mine has one and just loves it!! Enjoy yours!!

We just bought my wife a 2007 Chev. Avalanche. She had a 2004 Avalanche until a guy in a Jeep Cherokee ran a red light, turned her sideways a bit and a Suburban t-boned her. What a mess!! We're both tall, so the air bags don't do us any good. The shoulder strap broke her sternum and 2 ribs.

None of my toys have air bags, thank goodness: a 1971 Chev. Cheyenne 1/2 ton truck (with factory bucket seats, which you don't see very often), 1972 El Camino, 1986 Monte Carlo SS (with less that 35,000 mi.; I'm a NASCAR fan), and my POS daily driver is a 1991 S-10 Blazer (its been great with few repairs; no motor problems at all; I'm going to drive it into the ground).

Have a Great Day!!!

Love my ragtop Wrangler, but I have to say that the Toyota FJ Cruiser caught my eye last year. If I ever went hard-top, that would probably be the one. Neither one of them compare to the BMW X5, but that thing is way the hell out of my price range, even used.

For a fast SUV

www.porsche.com

Yes, Zat, but friggin' 130 grand and 9 mpg?

Well, perhaps if you lived in Dubai...

NJDevil, the FJ is cool, but it's a lot bigger than a lot of folks think. It's built on a modified 4Runner platform, and it doesn't get very good mileage. Between the two, I'd pick the new four-door Wrangler -- that thing's cool in a sleeper kind of way.

I have a Tacoma 4x4 also, and I don't think I'd ever buy another vehicle with a live rear axle and rear drums, as that back end loves to step out.

The Bimmer outcorners and brakes just about every passenger car on the road, it's an amazingly safe handling car, never surprises like some SUVs can (read: you don't see many upside down on the sides of the roads with puzzled-looking women milling about).

I'll never buy from the big three. They screwed me over for years. I always had to get them fixed. I like the Toyota reliability. Had this one for 15 years and never had to do anything except change the oil. I really don't think the big three get it. They just want a lot of money for nothing......

KENOOSH:
I drive one from the big three, no problems other than bad gas mileage (like most SUVs) and it's a pain in the ass to work out of, as you can't lock anything up. When I bought the rag top a few years ago, I had a work vehicle assigned to me and didn't have to worry about such things. I now have a job that I have to use my own car for, and I can't leave anything of value inside. I spend lots of time in Newark and Jersey City, so that can be an inconvenience.

FedUpWithPols-great post and increadible-has been going on for years