Let's see if this actually makes it through the House and Senate. If it does, I would imagine that there will be some unhappy posters around here.

"This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity,"

YEAH!

For a minute there he actually sounded like a leader ---- then I realized it was still Bush!

This is all show, it didn't work in the eighties and it won't work now. Still nothing of value from this Congress (or for that fact the one before them).

What is the incentive for illegals to do this?

the proposed plan would shift from an immigration system primarily weighted toward family ties toward one with preferences for people with advanced degrees and sophisticated skills

I kind of like this idea as long as families aren't split up.

Existing Laws are adequate to quell immigration. But official policy has been to never enforce those laws (unless the offender has committed more serious crimes). That's why nothing was done about Mohamad and Malvo, the Arab's in flight school and millions of other violators.

This law will make absolutely no difference within the Federal, State and local Government's of, by and for the Corporation.

Its all maximizing profits by the easiest means possible, which is lowering wages. Class warefare with bi-partisan support.

What is the incentive for illegals to do this?

Good question. That is generally something that is dealt with when drafting the bill. Can't wait to see how this will be enforced and what will happen to those who do not comply.

Hopefully cards will be issued that can't be easily duplicated and anyone that doesn't have one will be deported and any employer that hires someone without one will be subject to heavy fines. Of course that is too logical so I wouldn't expect Washington to come up with something like that.

Yeah logic and Washington are oil and water, Demint's statement above has kind of always been my concern about this.

Screw it, this won't work. Neither will the small piece of fence that they walk around.

I say we create a moat along the entire border, and fill it with sharks! Sharks with freakin laser-beams attached to their heads. Every creature deserves a warm meal.

Alternatively, I am not opposed to mutated Seabass, as long as they are ill-tempered.

-some unhappy posters around here.


I'm hidin' when Calif Chris hits this thread.

I was reading an article the other day predicting this happening. They were talking about how Ted Kennedy helped get Bush's No Child Left Behind and this Immigration legislation passed.

The old saw about politics making strange bedfellows was never truer, eh?

any time that Bush and Kennedy can agree, there is something wretched in the works.

Hole ah , como estas ? Donde es tu familia ? Tu ninos y ninas , tia , tio ,pape y mama , elles pape y mama , el pape y mama , chico chica , mija , mijita mijo mijito , papa grande y mama grande .
Que tal ? como se llama , nombre .

Bienvenidos a Moe's .Yo querro dos burritos y dos tacos .
Bienvenidos a McVato Bell ! Ese!!!
Deme !
Yo querro to dinero , rapido !
Bienvenidos de Estado Unidos de carrada ville .

If you were her illegally would you voluntarily pay the fines then have to go back to your country and apply for a visa to be here legally? All the while your family presumably is still here. I think not.

And, since the "Z" visas can't be handed out until "we've secured our border" how will that be determined. That phrase sounds suspiciously like "War on Terror". You don't know when you've won that and you don't know when "we've secured our borders".

I believe there are other provisions of this bill that call for securing the border first also.

This is a joke....I'm very disappointed in Congress.

Well, I'll ask again on this thread...anyone know why an illegal would voluntarily do this?

Well, I'll ask again on this thread...anyone know why an illegal would voluntarily do this?

Posted by the_nether at 2007-05-17 05:21 PM

Since so many cities are becoming santuaries for illegal immigrants, send them all there.Let them pay for the schooling, housing, medical. Then when they get their amnesty make sure all 50 million relatives go to these cities as well.

Who needs these clowns, we should choose legislators for one term only by the same method we choose jurors.

One word describes this latest gobbledygook from our fearless illegal immigrant vote seeking legislators = AMNESTY

The bogus "touch-back" will likely occur at some (at least) 50 state offices.

The first time an illegal immigrant doesn't have the $5,000 to pay a fine or have the funds to travel back to their homeland to get paperwork ===== the ACLU, LaRaza, CAIR etc will be filing lawsuits across the USA citing discrimination and immigrant bashing - just like they are doing now.

Just wait until someone can't get a relative into the USA - oh she is sick - he may be my cousin but he is my only relative (see paragraph 2)

Illegal immigrants doesn't pass background check (see paragraph 2)

Illegal immigrant graduated from high school but didn't go into the military or to college (see paragraph 2)

Temporary Farm Workers wants to stay in USA and not go home after 2 yrs. (See paragraph 2)

Who is going to determine when our borders are actually "secure"? Who is going to register all of these illegal immigrants? Who is going to monitor their progress thru the "system". Who is going to determine the verification of documents? Who is going to deport those that don't comply? How many appeals do they get? Who is the final "Decider". Who is going to do criminal background checks in the immigrants homeland or are we just going to take their word that they aren't a serial rapist or child molester, etc.?
ETC>
ETC>
ETC>
ETC>

PLUS THESE LEGISLATORS/IDIOTS DON'T EVEN HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA OF ANY FINANCIAL IMPACT TO THE COUNTRY = INCOMPETENT JACKASSES!

One word describes this latest gobbledygook from our fearless illegal immigrant vote seeking legislators = AMNESTY

The bogus "touch-back" will likely occur at some (at least) 50 state offices.

The first time an illegal immigrant doesn't have the $5,000 to pay a fine or have the funds to travel back to their homeland to get paperwork ===== the ACLU, LaRaza, CAIR etc will be filing lawsuits across the USA citing discrimination and immigrant bashing - just like they are doing now.

Just wait until someone can't get a relative into the USA - oh she is sick - he may be my cousin but he is my only relative (see paragraph 2)

Illegal immigrants doesn't pass background check (see paragraph 2)

Illegal immigrant graduated from high school but didn't go into the military or to college (see paragraph 2)

Temporary Farm Workers wants to stay in USA and not go home after 2 yrs. (See paragraph 2)

Who is going to determine when our borders are actually "secure"? Who is going to register all of these illegal immigrants? Who is going to monitor their progress thru the "system". Who is going to determine the verification of documents? Who is going to deport those that don't comply? How many appeals do they get? Who is the final "Decider". Who is going to do criminal background checks in the immigrants homeland or are we just going to take their word that they aren't a serial rapist or child molester, etc.?
ETC>
ETC>
ETC>
ETC>

PLUS THESE LEGISLATORS/IDIOTS DON'T EVEN HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA OF ANY FINANCIAL IMPACT TO THE COUNTRY = INCOMPETENT JACKASSES!

Who is going to do all of these background checks? Who is going to pay for it?

I just don't believe the majority of Americans want this. What they want are the current laws enforced.

There is no possible way to accomplish what this bill is calling for. For one thing...will a border fence even be built that's adequate enough to "secure the border"? Congress passed a bill last year that approved the building of a border fence but funds were never produced to begin the project. Why should I believe that the fence will be built now? The ACLU and other "American Rights" groups will just come in and say that we can't do this and that it's somehow discriminating Mexicans.

And, as the above poster just pointed out, who the hell is going to take care of the minor details? This plan of their's is going to do nothing but re-enlarge the deficit in the economy. And all for nothing. I predict that, if this bill passes through both houses, it will be an utter failure.

I feel like I'm watching a train wreck in slow motion.

I'm totally stunned.

Then I guess the precedent will be set. If enough people ignor the law, the government will change the law in the favor of the people who broke the law. I think pot will be legal soon.

Does this now mean that two wrongs make a right?

"I feel like I'm watching a train wreck in slow motion.
I'm totally stunned."
Posted by GIMPSTER at 2007-05-17 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

YEAH!

Did you just wake up?

You have been away Mr VanWinckle haven't you!

There are those who say the government grants no rights. Those people must agree that these "illegal" immigrants have all the rights here as anyone else already, and government proclamations mean nothing.

Why did Ted Kennedy get involved in something that primarily effects border states anyway??? Bush, I can understand, he works to lower wages and destroy the middle class but what is Kenney's excuse???
Oh, and now tell me again how I never criticize Democrats or liberals.
I think any bill this convoluted and with so many ridiculous qualifications for immigrants, like the $5,000 fine, is doomed to absolue failure. They are already here, they ain't going to register and then have to pay $5,000.
The illegals already know we don't bother enforcing immigration laws and employers know they can break the law with impunity. It's a joke.
The employers or illegals are partying tonight.

The employers or illegals are partying tonight.


Posted by danni at 2007-05-17 06:26 PM |

Both.

any time that Bush and Kennedy can agree, there is something wretched in the works.

Posted by vernon

you know its a hideous idea when I agree with vernon..

fuck all these politicians..

How can we offer them citizenship for doing something illegal? WTF over.

The sad part is that it will pass and become law.br />

Funny, this applies to people whom were in the country prior to Jan 1, 2007. I'm sorry but do we look stupid....how in the hell are you going to know whether or not they came in after that date. Sure, they're going to be honest, after all they've been that all along. HA!

To borrow a page out of the lib play book, lets impeach all of them that vote for it.

Democrats only want it because they are guranteed 70 percent of these "new" americans will vote for them becuase they will get them addicted to the "governement" needle" and republicans know it is a lost cause becuase with all these "minorities, this will become a one-party governement and we will slide down the abyss of self-destruction. Man, I cannot believe any one votes for these people..But..

no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on. this is a very sad day.

America as we know it is lost. This is worse than Pearl Harbor and 911 put together.

And no one can stop it. I am so disgusted I can barely type.

Good Bye America, I loved you. This is WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

How can they get away with the worst possible solution imaginable. Nobody wants amnesty yet they shove it down our throats. Just effing great.

Our new flag: 50 stars and 1 chalupa.

Our new flag: 50 stars and 1 chalupa.

How much does it take to convince you party loyalists that there is no difference between a Democrat and Republican except the party label? The politicians are your sworn enemy.

funny flag for the chalupa

Remember this dear friends, "Bipartisanship occurs when Democrats and Republicans in Congress get together and screw over the electorate(us)".
I strongly recommend an email and or phone call to your Senator voicing strong opposition to this travesty.

Remember this dear friends, "Bipartisanship occurs when Democrats and Republicans in Congress get together and screw over the electorate(us)".
I strongly recommend an email and or phone call to your Senator voicing strong opposition to this travesty.

The majority of Americans want us to DO NOTHING, like we are largely doing now.

If you needed (and you're not doing it yourself or having a family member do it) your lawn mowed, your tree trimmed, your dishes washed at a local restaurant, a house built, your house's roof repaired, etc, would you pay an American a full wage or pay an illegal a lesser wage?

Almost everybody I know whose done the above has used the services of immigrants not here through the proper channels.

On the bill, if I was a father who snuck over the border to make more than the $25-$50/week I make in Mexico/Central/South America *I* wouldn't spend $5000 and 8-13 years on the path to citizenship, as per the new law.

America as we know it is lost. This is worse than Pearl Harbor and 911 put together.

And no one can stop it...
Posted by redwhiteandblue at 2007-05-17 07:16 PM | Reply

Can you lay out the exact details of why our immigrant country is going to go down the shitter because of this?

They need to kill it and we need to do all we can to make sure they do!

Kirk, I can name several:

1. Money, who is going to process all of those background checks;

2. This will just say to the rest of Mexico waiting to come "we better go now so that we can be part of the Amnesty program"

3. As usual they will enforce nothing within the law

4. Did I mention money, do you have any idea how much this is going to costs in direct costs, don't even consider the indirect costs

I don't believe in doing something for the sake of saying you have done something which is exactly what this is. If they really want to do something put money toward enforcing our current laws and adding funds to the Homeland Security Dept for border control.

Are you willing to take this risk? I'm not, once you start it you won't be able to go back. It's not worth it. Enforce what we have first. I know there's no "political" joy in that but that's the right thing to do!

Southern California talk radio guys are going nuts over this they are so angry.

REPUBLICAN JON KYL IS A TRAITOR TO THE USA.

TRAITORS BUSH, the Democrats and some Republican senators allowed in their amnesty bill some of the following provisions:

-- Social Security payments for ALL 20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS under this senate amnesty even though when the illegals worked here they did so illegally

-- the border fence has been cut back from 700 miles to 350 miles in this bill (but the liar Bush only allowed 2 miles to be built so far anyway)

-- ANY ILLEGAL ALIEN WHO HAS BEEN HERE BEFORE DECEMBER 2006 GETS AMNESTY so our border patrol expects to have an INVASION of illegals coming over the border immediately to get on U.S. soil so they can lie and say they have been here prior to December 2006 so they can get in on the Bush/Democrats' amnesty bill

ALREADY -- a radio talk show host down by San Diego (who personally has no say so on what commercials play during his show) has already had -- after this bill today -- radio advertisements from illegal alien immigration lawyers advertising that they will "help" the 20 million illegals already in our country to bring into the U.S. all their billions of relatives who are not yet here.

COST -- conservatively estimated to be $2.4 TRILLION to implement this shamnesty.

ADIOS, USA

DON'T BE FOOLED

The REAL agenda behind this amnesty that will literally dissolve our borders and our sovereignty is just part of Bush's ultimate goal of a NORTH AMERICAN UNION and it's merger with Mexico and Canada.

Hang on all you other states. California is packed full and bursting at the seems so the newly-amnestied illegals (along with all the millions of additional family members they will now be allowed to bring into the U.S.) will all be heading your way.

You guys ain't seen nothing yet -- 5 families in the 2-bedroom house next door to your home and 6 of their cars parked on your lawn... have fun scraping together any equity out of your homes.

Bipartisanship needs to start out here with the people in opposition to this bill. I am calling my Congressman and Senators. I hope y'all are doing the same thing. I haven't been this outraged for a long time. For once I think that the majority of us agree regardless of where we used to think we were politically. I think this bill shows us where we really are.

I'm about to e-mail my Congressman and my two senators.

I just phoned Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Sen. Bill Nelson.
All of y'all need to get busy, they are going to try to ram this through. I think they do not realize what an explosion of anger they are getting ready to ignite.

I see no difference in filling the country with millions upon millions of people from Mexico than in forcing the birth of millions upon millions of unwanted fetuses. It just brings the future a little closer---close enough for the forced birth morons to see---and bitch about.

Lots of people don't seem to think life is so precious when it comes pouring over our borders.

I'm about to e-mail my Congressman and my two senators.

Posted by USPatriot at 2007-05-17 09:23 PM | Repl

You MUST do that. There is only next Monday when they might debate the bill (they are going to try and shove it thru with no debate) to stop it or else in the House.

This bill will give 22 million illegals -- the minute the bill is signed -- "protection" from any illegal immigration law and will destroy this country's sovereignty and borders as MILLIONS more will pour into this country from every country in the world in order to be here for the 'next' amnesty. This tells the world that we have no border anymore.

We are now watching Bush and the senate globalists tear down our borders and throw our sovereignty in the garbage as they prepare to merge us with Mexico under Bush's agenda for a North American Union.

Do you want to know the ONLY groups allowed to have veto power during discussions when this bill was being put together these last few weeks? La Raza, Maldef (Mexican American Legal Defense), LULAC and other radical Mexican activist groups.

The Sierra Club, other environmentalists, population control groups, U.S. unions, anti-illegal immigration groups -- ALL WERE BARRED FROM THESE DISCUSSIONS

If there was ever a time to call Congress repeatedly and fight for your country -- it's now.

I feel betrayed by Sen. Kennedy and the Democratic Party. If the Democrats really wanted to sink their chances in 2008, this is exactly how to do it.

CALIF I think there is a deeper meaning for this issue coming out today. I think its meant to distract people away from Ron Paul being censored in the debates and talking about the points he has raised.

Of course poster boy Romney has already come out against this amnesty plan. So now he will be looked upon as the saving grace every conservative can get behind. McCain is finished, he has no hope of being President with this traitorous bill with his name on it.

"Why did Ted Kennedy get involved in something that primarily effects border states anyway??? Bush, I can understand, he works to lower wages and destroy the middle class but what is Kenney's excuse???
Oh, and now tell me again how I never criticize Democrats or liberals.
Danni

Danni, this cracks me up b/c Ted Kennedy made this happen. And you refer to you "understanding" Bush wants to destroy the middle class. That was some criticism.

I just heard on the radio that this bill will not require that these millions of people become U.S. citizens.

The radio reported that THE MINUTE THE BILL IS SIGNED the millions of illegals now here will be given a "protected residency" card -- for them and ALL the family members they will now be able to bring into the country with them -- and they will be entitled to all the perks and benefits (that we taxpayers will pay for) but they will NEVER have to become citizens, learn English, assimilate, nada, in order to get all the benefits.

All the crap about the illegals now having to pay a fine, learn English, get on the track to become citizens, blah blah blah is CRAP. Once these millions of illegals get that protected residency card that's all they need.

DON'T YOU SEE -- this is how it would be under the North American Union. Millions can live here, suck up the benefits, cost our country trillions of dollars, but WILL NEVER HAVE TO BOTHER TO BECOME U.S. CITIZENS.

BUSH HAS CHEAPENED U.S. CITIZENSHIP DOWN TO ROCK BOTTOM.

"Shamnesty"

Good one, CChris.

That's wot it is all right.

The voice of the people is not to be heard and acted on.

The people's will is to be shaped and formed to match the corporate agenda.

Public Opinion and Public policy are completely disconnected.

Like on this issue.

Be Well.

Chris, while Bush does have to sign the legislation our Congress has to write the law. Ted Kennedy made this happen. He was also a major participant in the no child left behind legislation.

CALIF I think there is a deeper meaning for this issue coming out today. I think its meant to distract people away from Ron Paul being censored in the debates and talking about the points he has raised.

Of course poster boy Romney has already come out against this amnesty plan. So now he will be looked upon as the saving grace every conservative can get behind. McCain is finished, he has no hope of being President with this traitorous bill with his name on it.

Posted by THEBULL at 2007-05-17 09:44 PM | Reply

You're right. McCain was history anyway. Romney is the boy the globalists and corporatists want in office and he's the one they have already donated thousands of dollars to. Romney will put Jeb "Neocon" Bush on his presidential ticket as his VP.

This bill isn't to distract us from Ron Paul. The agenda is MUCH bigger than that. Bush wants to turn this entire continent into a globalist free trade zone. To the globalists like Bush, "free trade" means "the free flow of goods, transportation and human beings (aka cheap labor)" over our no-longer existent borders all done in the name of commerce.

Bush wants the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA) which eventually would allow all persons from Canada to the tip of South America (no matter what their citizenship) to come and go as they please and work and live where they please -- a la European Union. (errr, guess in what country all the third world populations of Mexico, Central and South America will choose to live.)

As it now stands, listening to the callers just on one radio station here in L.A., and how furious they all are over this bill, I really don't think this bill will ever get passed out of the House and will die in the House.

But it sure shows you the true colors of some of the traitors now in our government, doesn't it?

This bill won't pass -- not if these politicians ever want to keep their seats in Congress. I think this bill is more for "show" to calm down the pro-illegal immigration activists and then Congress can say "Well, we tried." Bush, however, truly does want this bill but everybody hates Bus anyway, including his own party.

Ted Kennedy made this happen. He was also a major participant in the no child left behind legislation.

Posted by Dalton at 2007-05-17 10:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

True, but we always knew what Kennedy was like. The real traitors are Senators like Jon Kyl of Arizona who ran on "no amenesty" last election and even has "no amnesty" still on his government website! those are the real two-faced ones.

I was just noticing the lack of enthusiasm behind the attacks on Kennedy. When he was the main legislator behind amnesty and no child left behind.

CALIFCHRIS - I agree that this will cause unmitigated damage the USA. Our legislators have sold US citizens out so that they can grant preferentail treatment to lawbreakers. The illegal aliens have already taken to the streets of LA celebrating their victory. Of course no one will report that the majority are likely doing so on the taxpayers dime.

Maybe someone should start forming a group of car thieves - make it a nationwide organization & import millions more car thieves over our borders - when enough have broken US laws & have reached the status of a special interest group they can petition the soft headed vote pandering legislators to grant amnesty to them and thus make car theft legal.

That is exactly what this amnesty legislation does.

I have never been more ashamed of being a lifelong Democrat as I am today - with my party thumbing their collective noses at law abiding legal aliens and those who are waiting to come legally into the USA AND selling out US citizens for intentional lawbreakers, special interest groups and fat cat corporations at the bequest of the worst President in US history - you couldn't make this crap up!

Oh - John McCain - kiss your presidential hopes -good-bye! as can another other candidate who approves of this insanity.

Indeed, Opinionator, anyone who supports this garbage should not be allowed to get their party's nomination. I don't care how popular they are.

Why has the word treason not been tossed around?

you know its a hideous idea when I agree with vernon..

Posted by Legio at 2007-05-17 06:35 PM | Reply

Comes the dawn ......

CALIF I understand what youre saying the agenda is, thats obvious, but I am saying the timing of it is very suspicious. Ron Paul gets some media attention then this is thrown in on top of it. What are the chances that NOW they come to an agreement and not next week or next month? It was deliberately timed for now. To get everyone talking about this and for people to forget about the debates. We as Americans cannot do either, we need to talk about both issues. Keep Paul in the debates, no amnesty for illegals EVER. no NAU, no NAFTA super highway through the heart of America.

...Keep Paul in the debates, no amnesty for illegals EVER. no NAU, no NAFTA super highway through the heart of America.

Posted by THEBULL at 2007-05-17 11:49 PM | Reply

DITTO

At last the shoe has finally dropped. The future of "Morning in America" has become the end-of-days from the neo-cons.

There are tipping points. A balancing point passed, where you can't go back. The genie is out of the bottle and there is a one-way ticket to a new American century dawning. One where there is a regular decline in the average standard of living for the working stiff.

The era where you expected to do better than your parents, regardless of where you started your climb, is coming to an end. A distinct separation by wealth between the haves and have-mores, and the rest of us, those who will be served up a job that is barely a living wage.

But hot damn, we'll be competitive with third world workers and their starvation lifestyle.

Cairo, it is strange how you use the words "At last the shoe has finally dropped"..."The era where you expected to do better than your parents, regardless of where you started your climb, is coming to an end. A distinct separation by wealth between the haves and have-mores, and the rest of us, those who will be served up a job that is barely a living wage."
Mr. cairo you use the word "you" a lot until you get to "But hot damn, we'll be competitive with third world workers and their starvation lifestyle"

Are you the "you" or the "we"?

Ratbastard-
Perhaps you should seek therapy, or try viagra to ameliorate your obvious feelings of frustration and impotence.

Ratbastard-
Though it's clear that you don't quite measure up to the task of open debate, it's really sad that you would react with a protracted tantrum. Did your mother not offer her breast, or are you hungry for daddy's "teat"?

Yes, it's a mystery.

BOYD:

It's not such a mystery.

I did a little detective work and guess what?

TADOWE IS BACK

Twin-
If Tadowe is back, why is he being such a pussy?

auka tengslin vi lesendur. a er ekki einungis hagur okkar blainu

auka tengslin vi lesendur? swhnoot !!

fecal tanstrum er ekki nzchte blahboon !!!!!!

RATBASTARD

Alsa, Vu schnitzel anuses vaboor schmelt vi donkiy !!!

"TADOWE IS BACK"

If it is li'l Taddles then he's only back fer as long as it takes fer him to get kicked out agin.

Whoever it is they are a ginormous pussy.

The blog-god will not be amused methinks.

Be Well.

Twin-
BTW, I couldn't care less what coward is relentlessly spamming. It's clear that whomever it is can't handle a simple dialogue, and must resort to the virtual equivalent of a tantrum on the floor.

(And, no, you can't have that toy, bushbot bastard)

Ooya are a upidsta erkja

Ratbastard-
You are a coward. You don't have the balls to confront opposition to your cause, and so you wipe shit on the wall. You are a passive-agressive troll whose awareness of his impotence has rendered him batshit crazy.

RCADE

I'd be looking into an IP ban bro for RATBASTARD

RATBASTARD must be a Bushie

He couldn't master English, so he made up his own language.

BOYD:

Because TADOWE is psycho who lives in a Portland, OR suburb and he has a hatred for Rogers than transends time or reason.

For those who don't know Tadowe, this isn't the first time he's done this.

He get's off his meds from time to time and tries to spam this site out of existence. The last time it lasted three days.

Take a look at his "Contact User." He's inviting us to report him to Rogers.

Hey Rat Bastard.

Yer father musta worn his Nazi Uniform when buggering you throughout yer childhood.

Now that musta been tuff to take particularily when yer mom was a teenaged crack whore who had you after being raped by her own father.

But even considering all that yer still being a total dick.

Think you can shut this place down?

Yer a fool.

Be Well.

Mr. R. Bastard:

gera blai fallegra og hugaverara sem og a auka tengslin vi lesendur. a er ekki einungis hagur okkar blainu, heldur allra tgfusv ... i ess. (Frttavefur B ... jarins besta, opnunardagur, 4. janar 2000).

I must say I believe your writings make more sense than the bill that came out today from the U.S. Senate.

why do you insist on fucking up the posts on this website? Will someone please ban and remove his gibberish from the site so we can engage in real debate. Thanks.

This "amnesty" issue is one of the issues in which I strongly disagree with the President.


Illegals just got a get out of jail free card.

The corporate honchos were toasting last night and celebrating the cheap labor and laughing at all working Americans.
If ever a third party could win an election now is the time. Throw these bastards out, all of them.
What the liars in Congress don't bother to mention when they proposed this legislation is that it will not even be enforced. We have immigration laws now but they refuse to enforce them. Employers hire illegals with impunity and laugh at the workers who formerly were paid decent wages. Our soldiers in Iraq get paid peanuts while private contractors take home six figures. When they finally get to return home their jobs will be held by Mexicans working for half of what the same job paid before they were sent overseas.
They want class war, I say bring it on.

Whoever RAtbastard is should be banned from this site permanently. Hello.....Rcade...anyone home????

Danni,


Ratbastard is Rex.


Do you remember that loser?

Yeah I remember that psycho but why is Rcade letting him post all that crap??
Is he on vacation or something?

Is Tadowe the same person as Rex? Some say it is Tadowe and others say it is Rex? Which is correct?

DANNI:

It was Tadowe. I caught him on the Site Map when he first logged on.

The only person who posts here from Beaverton, Oregon is Tadowe.

Beaverton, OR + Verizon = TADOWE.

Rex had nothing to do with it.

That makes sense TWINPAC because Tadowe always was an asshole so it kind of fits his profile. Rex was an asshole too but I think he wouldn't have been able to post gibberish because he couldn't exress his psychotic insults that way.
It is a shame to see what has happened to Tadowe's mind, he was actually pretty intelligent but just crazy.

Hate to say it, but I actually feel sorry for him. Mental illness is such a tragedy. His family must have their hands full.

Tadowe and Rex are not the same person.


Tadowe was abrasive but he'd never muck up threads posting gibberish.


This is pure Rex.

If we the people believe this amnesty bill is wrong, we can do something. We have elected those who represent us. We need to diligently express our opinions by mail and phone as often as we can. The window of time for doing this is NOW.

I am told those who desire this bill are very organized and have phone banks calling and writing up a storm.

If you are interested check out this site for information.

www.informedvoter.info


I am doing all I know to do while I can do it. I love America. Close our borders and enforce our laws.

why do you insist on fucking up the posts on this website? Will someone please ban and remove his gibberish from the site so we can engage in real debate. Thanks.

Debate?

Amazing.
No action to solve the problem (mind you)....you just debate the issue.
It's like your house being on fire and you stand around and talk about how to put it out.

Common sense is no longer common in America.

if you can get by the blind hatred of ignorance for these two people, then maybe you can commnet on it.

rush..........this issue will be borne out in the republican primaries. the primaries are the first place that people can voice thier opinion on this issue and mccain should be the big loser if that happens..............

I agree.

michael savage........this ensures the election of mitt rommny in 08........

I dont know enough about him yet, but if he is the republican nominee.....then it would be good news......

DANNI:

Don't feel that sorry for him.

Maybe it was before your time but Tadowe used to be our resident misogynist.

He would have referred to you as a "feminazi," one of his favorite expressions for females with opinions.

Danni,

Employers hire illegals with impunity and laugh at the workers who formerly were paid decent wages.


I have a cousin who had wild youth. He was an alcholic, had a kid out-of-wedlock when he was 18 and spent a few months in jail for petty theft. When he got out of jail he gave up the bottle and got a line job with Ford - he was shifted to Mazda about 15 years ago. He's a good worker - he doesn't miss a day, he works hard and picks up overtime whenever he can. He makes good money, roughly $50k per year plus benefits. He supports his family on that income.


You know what?

His work is unskilled labor. You could take any person off the street and with 2 day's training, they could perform his work - he told ME this, not the other way around.

I am truly grateful that a guy like my cousin was able to find work that pays well enough for him to support his family and live a nice lifestyle.

The problem is that people exist, in droves, all over the world who are willing and eager to perform the exact same job function for a fraction of the pay.

Market forces are a bitch. What we are experiencing was inevitable. The cost of some of our manufacturing labor far exceeds its value. That sucks, but it's life.

The world has gotten more competitive. Due to increased labor supply, the wage that laborers earn is going down. It sucks, but I don't think anything can be seriously done to stop it.

you know its a hideous idea when I agree with vernon..

fuck all these politicians..

Posted by Legio at 2007-05-17 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag


yes and here is another case of what I have been talking about as well as rush and savage who,whether you want to admit it or not, or on the same side as YOU ARE on this issue......

just as what happened with the dubai port deal, it is time for us to rise up and remind these people about three words from our famous document.

"we the people"......and us just bickering here wont help anything, so if you are truely worried about this and you arent just 'jerking off'....then do what I am doing....

email your congressman and your senators.

I have already shot off a message to john cornyn reminding him that he is up for re-election in 08 and will be sending one to nick lampson and telling him that even though he is a democrat and is just keeping that seat warm for a conservative, that I also know of a lot of dems who are pissed at this whole thing.......or something to that effect.......


as rush said......when we spoke up about the port deal, every congressman and senator RAN FOR THE NEAREST MIC To tell us that it wouldnt happen......and now they are telling us that we just dont understand the plight of these poor people and that we just dont care about them......

why dont we show them that we are the people......but that will mean a certain truce here among "natural born enemies"
Im game, or you?

Twin,

Maybe it was before your time but Tadowe used to be our resident misogynist.

He would have referred to you as a "feminazi," one of his favorite expressions for females with opinions.


I don't remember that.

I've been coming to this site for almost 3 years, but have no recollection of Tadowe denigrating a poster based upon gender.

"Treasonous subversive scum" was commonplace, but I honestly don't recall any gender bias.

In case anyone is intrested in translating that crap...it's iceland speak.

JEFFJ:

Then you probably missed the thread about women in uniform.

IN COGNITO:

I think Tadowe was here looking for Alexandrite *cough* but went after Spud when Alexandrite wasn't here.

Nothing concrete . . . just a feeling because I know him so well.

Twin,


Yeah, I don't recall that thread.


Are you suggesting that Tadowe was here as well last night?


I can say this, the person posting as 'Ratbastard' was clearly Rex. Under what handle was Tad posting?

Billyboi is rex. I have no idea if ratbastard is actually him, but he claimed to be sleazydems, my happy 1-11, ect ect.

I wouldnt be surprised if one of them was jackass as well.

I wouldnt be surprised if one of them was jackass as well.

They might even be the same person - Think: Coconservative/Iamsam/
Redneckville.


Or perhaps they are brothers, or something.

Whatver, those 2 douchebags (Rex and Jackass) are definitely cut from the same cloth.

while I dont share your gloom and doom, I do see what you are talking about. I might be just too optimistic.....I mean I was sure that my congressman would be named gibbs...........HANS>>>>THERE"S YOUR CUE..........
again......the primary is where I will be voicing my opinion and it looks more and more that it will be a mormom from massachusitts...........well I guees there is a first time for everything.....

You know, it's kind of funny, Boyd and I got into a little Tadowe war earlier this week:

JEFFJ:

There's no "as well" to it.

Rex had nothing to do with it.

I caught Tadowe on the Site Map when he first logged in to this site.

There's only one person from Beaverton, OR who posts on this site and that's TADOWE.

Beaverton, OR + Verison = TADOWE.

Tadowe was Ratbastard.

"......the primary is where I will be voicing my opinion and it looks more and more that it will be a mormom from massachusitts...........well I guees there is a first time for everything....."

Apparently, for bushitlover2, we're still awaiting that "first time" for him to actually write anything which makes sense and which somehow resembles English.

Hans

TWINPAC
""Don't feel that sorry for him.""

Oh, I remember him quite well and he called me every name in the book. However, I have had experience dealing with mentally ill people who exhibited the same anger problems, I began to understand they really can't help themselves without meds which their illness makes them reject. I really do feel sorry for him, a life of isolation and ostracization is sad. I don't like putting up with their symptoms but mental illness is the reason for their hatefulness. I do feel sorry for them even while I avoid them.

"a mormom from massachusitts"

a step up from voting for a maroon from tixas?

JEFFJ

Tadowe was abrasive but he'd never muck up threads posting gibberish.

Oh yes he would.

You weren't here on April 19,2005 when he flooded every thread on this site with unintelligible gibberish for about three days.

That and his vulgar abuse of Rcade is what got him banned eventually.

We don't need new immigration laws, especially another amnesty program. All this does is send another message that if you immigrate illegally, eventually you will be naturalized anyway.

Think about 9-11, Mohamad & Malvo, H1-B Visas based on fraudulent Corporate data, pschysophrenic border control & employer regulation.

WRITE CONGRESS. STOP THIS BILL. GUARANTEED TO BE ANOTHER GIVEAWAY TO CORPORATIONS. LIKE THE PATRIOT ACT, NO ONE IN CONGRESS HAS EVEN READ IT. THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE VOTING FOR.

hans...please take a lesson from doc....if you want to insult someone without sounding like a complete asshole......

and what in the hell is a 'maroon from tixas anyway?

AH I GET IT now...........well I see doc that its you who has been taking asshole lessons from hans..............

ah yeah good one........yeah sure.///

so I see we have a real knee slapper from 'dick and lick'.........good one BOYS

nutcase.......I have already sent a note to my congressman's office and one senator's office.........I have done my part for now.....and all the time hans and doc are just .....as I said.,,,jerking off..........

well what do you expect from a couple of 'jerkoffs;

(and yes........I still think we need to all come together on this issue.....if bush and teddy can come together on it, why cant danni and me and redneck....well..okay...thats going a little too far but why cant danni and I be 'bed fellows' on this one...

(and yes danni........that is a straight line for you....lets see if you can come up with something clever and funny.......lol)

"I have already sent a note to my congressman's office and one senator's office........."

deer seanator, i am writing you today......because i think u r a jerkoff.... HA HA >>> no.... really, i think...sea, i realy do think...that this is rong....please vote again it.....thank yoo.... oh, and did i tel u, i are a fourmer teecher?????

cincerely.....bushitlovertwo

Posted this on the wrong thread:

This bill won't be passed this year, if at all. Moreover, if it makes it through both houses, by the time it gets to the president's desk there will be so much pork attached that it won't even look like an immigration reform bill.

Twin,


How in the heck were you able to discern where he was posting from?


You weren't here on April 19,2005 when he flooded every thread on this site with unintelligible gibberish for about three days.


Obviously not, although I can't fathom how I could've missed that. Can you elaborate a bit on what he was specifically saying/doing?

FF Hans!


Sorry, BLT - but Hans' letter was frickin' hilarious!

why cant danni and I be 'bed fellows' on this one...

After all, my bet is that BLT isn't getting any and his teddy bear is all sticky.

JEFFJ

I used the Site Meter at the bottom of the page.

It's easier to do in the middle of the night because there aren't too many people posting.

As soon as I saw the spam I knew it was Tadowe. Just to make sure I went to the Site Meter and clicked on World Map/United States and sure enough, there it was . . . Beaverton, OR.

These things scroll pretty fast so a person has to be quick. But you can get up to the last 100 people who logged on. I took it down to the last 10 people and then 5 to get the time right.

I just happened to know that Tadowe is from Beaverton, OR and he's the only one who posts from there.

Plus the fact that I know he's banned so Beaverton, OR stuck out like a sore thumb.

It couldn't be anybody else but him.

jeff.........I am giving you a STERN LOOK right now as I type this.

mike.....you can only dream of getting as much 'tang' as I get..........

"mike.....you can only dream of getting as much 'tang' as I get.........."

Mike dreams of being a celibate monk?

Or is 'tang' the slang term for a hole-in-one at Putt-Putt?

Hans

We need to make it easier for these folks to come here legally.

I realize that the Statue of Liberty isn't in Nogales AZ, but what she represents should be.

JEFFJ:

Can you elaborate a bit on what he was specifically saying/doing?

Just gibberish . . . like upper case top row on your keyboard.

He filled whole pages with it and claimed he had five friends around the country helping him.

However, knowing that Tadowe is a consumate liar, I seriously doubt he has even one friend, much less five.

We need to make it easier for these folks to come here legally.

I realize that the Statue of Liberty isn't in Nogales AZ, but what she represents should be.

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-05-18 11:46 AM

Then YOU pay for them. And while you're at it, can you ask them to stop flying the f__king Mexican flag everywhere.

I understand that Lady Liberty means nothing to you Chris. I get that. We ALL get that.

I'm ok with it if you are.

The fact that you are bothered by a flag though, I really don't know what that says about you, but we've all seen you under your bed before.......

They borrow the money from the tax payer(us) and never have to repay it.We are such a giving country.Next we can fund our middle East immigrants(the ones that don't get amnesty now.) Terrell

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Does this not apply anymore. Are we not the America of our Founders anymore?

I just got a suspicion of where the immigrants will get their $5,000 and the reason for this requirement. The employers will pay it for them and then they will deduct payments from their paychecks. Indentrured servitude.
This is the worst bill possible and I don't care what Democrat claims differently including Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi. If this is the best they can do then they should step down and let more able people take their place.
I am no longer a voter who votes straight Democratic ticket.

Or is 'tang' the slang term...

No Hans,

That's the crap they invented for the astronuts.

The U-stan answer to orange juice.

Manypaths, you need to realize we have laws in place to become a legal resident that have been ignored by both the illegals and the government.

What about "illegal" don't you understand?

I'm not even going to ask. I'll go out on a limb and assume that you are retarded:


We need to make it easier for these folks to come here legally.

I realize that the Statue of Liberty isn't in Nogales AZ, but what she represents should be.

Posted by Manypaths

Please do keep up.

Why make it easier, Manypaths?

If thousands (probably more like millions) have already been able to become legal, what do you find so hard about it?

who da thunk that Bush could come up with a bigger screw up than Iraq and Katrina?

America has just opened Pandora's box and there is no turning back.

Please update your website so that we can all converse in Spanish from today forward.

RWB, in your tirade, don't forgot the Dems who are 100% all for this "Pandora's Box".

Its all about giving more people an opportunity to vote for them. They all disgust me!

I guess I have to ask.

What Tribe are all of you Natives from anyway?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I can only assume that the meaning of America has changed. I must have missed that meaning.

Manypaths, are you suggesting that this statement means that the rest of us should have to support them? Because this is exactly what is going to happen here.

"What Tribe are all of you Natives from anyway?"

Choctaw and Osage.
You?

"""Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,""

Does it have a line in there about give me your scabs, your criminals, you workers willing to take jobs for half of what Americans work for???
Does it say in there to bring me your poor and let their employer pay a $5,000 fine for them so that they end up indentured servants??
Does it say send me your poor so that they can send their pay back to their home country??
Does it say in there bring me your people who are unwilling to learn English and become Americans???

We aren't opposed to Mexicans being allowed to come here but there should be an orderly, lawful process with the expectation that the ones we allow in will become Americans who obey our laws and speak our language.
Anyway, I actually have no animosity towards poor Mexican peasants who want to come here, it is with the employers who exploit their labor and undercut American's wages that I have a problem with.

I come from a family of immigrants Data.

They hit Ellis Island from Ireland.

Support them? Having them become citizens and paying taxes. Isn't that a step in the correct direction?

What do you suggest?

Does it say in there to bring me your poor and let their employer pay a $5,000 fine for them so that they end up indentured servants??

Danni, that is a guess that you pulled out of your ass.

Admit it.

it is with the employers who exploit their labor and undercut American's wages that I have a problem with.

Who do you think pays for the H1 Visas as it is established today? Right! Employers.

I only see this outrage when it pertains to Mexicans.

But it's not Amnesty!!! haha. who are they kidding.

These pukes should get kicked out and get in line like the rest of the law abiding people that want to come here legally. This is a huge slap in the face of the people that have been waiting in line for literally years to do it legally.

Evidently, it's now ok to break the law if you help pick tomatoes, but not if you help fill the technical jobs that aren't being filled by Americans. nice.

If President Bush wants a "comprehensive" immigration plan (it is not an immigration plan, that we already have. It is an amnesty plan he is pushing in the US Senate -- to create rules to allow law breakers to be rewarded for violating our laws) than it must also fix the "Anchor baby" problem and end the "right" to petition to allow law breakers to validate criminal activity by giving their parents petitions for citizenship.

The point here is that there are so many esoteric issues in this matter. Whether criminals, folks that use phony Social Security cards, (and that is a criminal offense) should be allowed to collect Social Security -- if they have been violating the law for ten years or more? You even see Senator Kennedy argue, amazingly, that illegal aliens don't have to be paid minimum wage! Any further evidence needed of the hypocrisy of the Left -- Kennedy WANTS illegal aliens exploited, there is no other explanation for this.

President Bush says it would be "too cumbersome" to enforce our current laws and deport more than 12 million illegal aliens. Yet, he wants to create a system where the IRS has to investigate each illegal alien for back taxes, the FBI for criminal records, etc.

"What do you suggest?"

Posted by Manypaths


Go back to Operation Wetback.
Make legal immigration a reasonable exercise, which it IS NOT now.
A border that's a sieve is a dangerous thing. The amnesty vote smells. All those votes, if only we just make 'em legally here and ignore the fact that they are criminals.
We have been importing a 3rd world slave class.

Wow, DATA, you're spot on. I think we have found an issue upon which we can agree.

amnesty (m'n-st)
n., pl. -ties.
A general pardon granted by a government, especially for political offenses.

pardon (pr'dn)
tr.v., -doned, -doning, -dons.
1. To release (a person) from punishment; exempt from penalty:

As I read it, these individuals will have to jump through many hoops before they become citizens and pay a $5,000 PENALTY (see definitions above regarding AMNESTY.) After doing so, 8-13 years down the road, of paying taxes and staying out of trouble they have the possibility of becoming citizens.

Those who are calling this Amnesty do not understand the meaning of the word. But now, thanks to Manypaths, you are more educated on the subject.

And if you entered the States illegally after Jan1 of this year, or do so ever again, you WILL NEVER have the right to come here legally or obtaining a Z-Visa. If the laws are tough on employers regarding these Visas, coming here illegally won't do you any good. You can't work!!!

If we can start rewarding the people who want to live here and contribute to THIS society, while punishing lawbreakers, from this point forward, with the reality that they could NEVER be here legally, it might help stem the flow over the border.

All those votes, if only we just make 'em legally here and ignore the fact that they are criminals.

This is where you are off base Data.

Ignore criminals huh? Making them pay a $5,000.00 fine is ignoring them?

You are out of your mind!!!!!!

How about this. You give me 5 grand and I will IGNORE the fact that you don't get it.

Ever committ a non-violent crime Data? I have, as a lot of Americans have.

I have NEVER had a 'PUNISHMENT' that came close to paying 5 Grand. You?

If you think SS benefits will expire its accounts in 2017, the date is moving much closer...

How to solve illegal immigration.
Convict them in a court of law.

Once convicted, use the 13th Amendment and sell them off as slaves.

Slavery will drive the rest out of the country.

We don't need no stinking moats or fences.

You need to educate yourself on the meaning of the word Amnesty Murphy.

I explained it above for you but I am guessing that you missed it.

You're welcome.

""Danni, that is a guess that you pulled out of your ass.""

I admit that I did think up the idea but it makes sense to me. Now you explain why an employer wouldn't do this to get a worker for very low wages until the $5,000 is paid off especially if he is in a Guest Worker Program with the job tied to his guest worker visa.
Since the bill was just proposed everything we discuss about it is being thought up by people like you and me.
We are trying to find the problems with this bill...right????

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

amnesty
One entry found for amnesty.


Main Entry: amnesty
Pronunciation: 'am-n&-stE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Greek amnEstia forgetfulness, from amnEstos forgotten, from a- + mnasthai to remember -- more at MIND
: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals
- amnesty transitive verb

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

amnesty
One entry found for amnesty.


Main Entry: amnesty
Pronunciation: 'am-n&-stE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Greek amnEstia forgetfulness, from amnEstos forgotten, from a- + mnasthai to remember -- more at MIND
: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals
- amnesty transitive verb

It is Amnesty MP--they just put more lipstick on it--but it is still a pig.

I guess you are ok with the trillions of dollars this is going to cost.??

Murphy

Now you explain why an employer wouldn't do this to get a worker for very low wages until the $5,000 is paid off especially if he is in a Guest Worker Program with the job tied to his guest worker visa.

How does this differ from our current H1B Visa program Danni?

Problems with this Bill? Couldn't we find a problem or 2 with EVERY bill?

We could have a bill like this or continue to ignore the immigration problem. Which do you prefer?

Murphy, I'll distill it down further for you.

Amnesty = NO PUNISHMENT

This bill = $5,000.00 PUNISHMENT

That is as simple as I can make it.

Comprehension is up to you.

We shouldn't have an immigration bill until the fence is completed--and why are they going to ram this down in 5 days? Maybe because they know the American people are going bonkers and don't want to wait--something like 18 months to vote on this bill.

They debated the 1985-86 bill for 18 months before they voted on it.

This one gets star treatment in 5 days.

I can't stand McCain--what a horse's ass. He just lost any hope for the conservative vote. Romney's looking better and better.

Murphy

And the definition of PARDON Danni?

(Hint, I have provided it above.)

I find it hard to believe that you have such a hard time seeing the PUNISHMENT that this Bill applies to illegals.


It is a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE!

I believe drunk drivers get off for less if you don't count attorney fees.

Are these people more dangerous to our society then drunk drivers?

Their PUNISHMENT suggests so.

3) Send them all back home to get in line for citizenship. And don't make excuses that there are too many! Here is how they will leave on their own:
4) Cut off all funding and benefits for illegal immigrants--no more public education, no more health care, no more jobs, no more services, and outsource the prison system for the illegals in prison. Send them to China for $2,000 a year.
5) Pass a Constitutional Amendment--no more anchor baby! At least one parent must be an American Citizen to be a citizen of the US. Change the Constitution--NOW!"

Must tbe the "pop christian" alternative measure.



WWJD

Who Would Jesus Deport?



Deportees (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)
Lyrics by Woody Guthrie
Music by Martin Hoffman


The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting
The oranges are piled in their cresote dumps
They're flying you back to the Mexico border
To pay all your money to wade back again

My father's own father, he wanted that river
They took all the money he made in his life
My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees
And they rode the truck till they took down and died

CHORUS
Good-bye to my Juan, good-bye Rosalita
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maris
You won't have a name when you ride the big air-plane
And all they will call you will be deportees.

Some of us are illegal, and others not wanted
Our work contract's out and we have to move on
But it's six hundred miles to that Mexican border
They chase us like outlaws, like rustlers, like theives.

We died in your hills, we died in your deserts
We died in your valleys and died on your plains
We died 'neath your trees and we died in your bushes
Both sides of the river, we died just the same.

CHORUS

A sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos canyon
Like a fireball of lightning, it shook all our hills
Who are all these friends, all scattered like dry leaves?
The radio says they are just deportees.

Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards?
Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?
To fall like dry leaves to rot on my topsoil
And be called by no name except deportees?

As the above poster said, McCain has just lost any hope of winning the Republican primaries. Romney's brownie points just went up and I have yet to hear Giulliani's position on this.

We shouldn't have an immigration bill until the fence is completed--and why are they going to ram this down in 5 days?

No wonder this is so difficult, you didn't read it Murphy:

but they could not get visas or begin a path to citizenship until the border security improvements and a high-tech worker identification program were put in place.

""We could have a bill like this or continue to ignore the immigration problem. Which do you prefer?""

We only have two choices???
You mean a major attempt to punish employers who hire illegals, you know, enforce the law...why couldn't we try that????
We don't need any bill to do that just a president who would honor his oath of office.

Personally, I do not want to PUNISH illegal aliens who in reality are just unfortunate poor people forced off farms by the effects of NAFTA. I would prefer to pressure Mexico into dealing with their own problems. They have the money but it is just all held by the small aristocracy.

And Murphy, you still didn't answer my question, why wouldn't an employer pay the fine for the immigrant and then hold him as a virtual indentured servant???

Well currently Danni, when we catch illegals, we drop them off at the border.

This bill allows us to detain them so they can't just walk across the border again.

Positive???

My bet is that is why the $5,000 was put in there in the first place. Otherwise these immigrants would have the legal right to work wherevver they want just like other Americans and demand higher pay just like other Americans and thus eliminate the cheap labor that the corporations want them for.

MP--the cap for the illegals to bring in their family--on a goofed up point system or whatever is 100 MILLION--

And no MP__no one has been able to read the bill--and I don't happen to believe the talking points from the elites.

The bill is going to be over 1000 pages--how long will it take you to read it?

Nice deflection Corky--get real and wake up.

Murphy

""This bill allows us to detain them so they can't just walk across the border again.""

Oh we did that down here in Florida with Haitians. What a fucking disaster that was. You want to hold tens of thousands of people, possibly hundreds of thousands of people. How much is that going to cost???? What about their human rights??? They are still human beings in case we all forgot.
Punish the employer, take away the carrot that lures them here.

What the bill needs to do is punish employers for hiring illegal aliens. If an employer is caught with illegal workers, those workers should be arrested and deported. The employer must also be arrested and given a minimum sentence of 5 years in prison and a $100,000 fine.

If you severely punish employers, they will not have the courage to hire the cheap labor illegal immigrants provide and thusly the illegal immigrants will return home to Mexico with their families because they won't be able to find work. If they really want to live and work here and they go to their embassy and apply for a green card to get back into America as a legal resident.

Danni you haven't answered mine.

How is that different then H1B visa process?

DHS deported over 221,000 illegals last year --so they can deport people--

There won't be enough jobs for the folks they will allow to come here--

This is not fixing the problem--stop trying to settle for nothing MP with this bill.

Murphy

What the bill needs to do is punish employers for hiring illegal aliens.

This ought to make you happy then Patriot:

Workplace enforcement
Require employers to electronically verify new employees to prove identity and work eligibility.
Increase penalties for unlawful hiring, employment and record keeping violations.

I am starting to think that not many of you have read the bill.

There won't be enough jobs for the folks they will allow to come here--

Who told you THAT?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Mexicans are coming!

You sound foolish.

If you have a job that can be taken by a Mexican, that is your problem. If he or she can do a better job for less money well then tough shit.

Welcome to Capitalism folks.

Why you only seem to have a problem with it when Mexicans are involved is beyond me.

"Require employers to electronically verify new employees to prove identity and work eligibility.
Increase penalties for unlawful hiring, employment and record keeping violations."


Like there aren't ways around that. Christ, this is pretty much what our laws do now. This section of the bill is only restating what has been on the books for years. If it didn't stop them then, what makes you think it will stop them this time?

Employers have been faking IDs for their illegal workers for years. If you hire someone good enough, they can fake out the system easily.

Well know they will have to fake a US provided electronic Visa Patriot.

The penalties to employers have been increased.

I understand your concern, but isn't this at least a step in a more enforceable direction?

Maybe so...but what's going to make this bill a failure is the fact that these illegals will have to pay a $5,000 fine to get their green card. They're not going to do this. And plus I don't believe the government will step up the random raids either.

Nice deflection Corky--get real and wake up.

Murphy

I live 90 miles from Miami, Murph, so don't get your panties in a bunch (if JeffJ ever gave them back to you).

I just find the callousness and conceit of your proposals less than appealing.

I live 90 miles from Miami, Murph, so don't get your panties in a bunch (if JeffJ ever gave them back to you).


I had them framed.

Patriot,

I have hired illegals in the past. It was easy. The documents required were very easy to manipulate and all I had to do was write a number on an I-9 form and send it into some Federal Agency where it was most likely NEVER reviewed.

As I read this bill, it apears that applicants will have to provide a US Visa that can be electronically verified very easily.

It appears, if this bill passes, that it will be MUCH harder to hire undocumneted workers and get away with it.

I had them framed.

Posted by JeffJ

Triple-Dipper FF for the Painless Pole!

""How is that different then H1B visa process?""

Do they have to pay a $5,000 dollar fine under that program???

This bill = $5,000.00 PUNISHMENT

That is as simple as I can make it.

Comprehension is up to you.

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-05-18 02:

WRONG. There will be NO "punishment" because this bill is set up ON PURPOSE where the millions of illegals here (and the millions more to come) can still get everything they want, including legality, but NEVER have to become U.S. citizens (which is when you would pay the $5 G)

This is where you have to understand what Bush and the open borders thugs are going with this bill.

IF you want to become a U.S. citizen then you pay the $5000. ONLY THEN. The millions from Mexico are very nationalist and could care less about becoming U.S. citizens and paying taxes.

But the real evil in this bill for all Americans is that the Senate and Bush are allowing PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS to ALL ILLEGALS now in the country and this Permanent Residency Status TAKES EFFECT THE MINUTE THE BILL IS SIGNED BY BUSH.

That means that all 20 plus million illegals can stay in the country with NO PENALTY, get ALL THE PERKS, TAKE JOBS, USE OUR SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS and NEVER have to worry about their illegal status again NOR ARE THEY EVER REQUIRED TO REGISTER TO BECOME CITIZENS.

We will have a PERMANENT class of "residents" who get all the benefits and do NOT have to assimilate nor become citizens of the U.S. but can live here legally (in the MULTI-MILLION) as "permanent residents" which gives them 'legal status'

Who among the millions of illegals is going to bother to become a U.S. citizen when they can now live here with impunity and never have to worry about being 'illegal' ever again. NONE OF THEM WILL BECOME U.S. CITIZENS.

DON'T YOU SEE -- this is exactly what Bush wants for the New World Order and the North American Union -- permanent status for hordes of third world low wage workers to reside here in the U.S. and they can come and go freely back and forth across our borders -- the EXACT PLAN Bush has for implementing his North American Union and the SAME PLAN that is now in effect in the globalist European Union. And look at the MESS that it created for the Britons. Foreigners (Muslims) coming in by the tens of thousands, undercutting their jobs, breaking their welfare bank, and Islamic terrorists.

BEWARE -- of all the right wing radio and tv guys today who are telling their audience (who is furious about this bill) -- "Well, it's the best we can do." NO, IT IS NOT THE 'BEST WE CAN DO"

I listened this morning to both Rush and O'Reilly. Rush is adamantly against this bill (which surprised me since it is Bush-sponsored) but what did Bill O'Reilly say -- "Well, it's the best we can do." O'Reilly is siding with Bush. By that "it's the best we can do" statement you will know the traitors among us. O'Reilly is a traitor.

IF THIS BILL IS EVER SIGNED, AMERICA IS LOST. This bill will create an always increasing permanent class of "permanent non-citizen residents" who will have NO ALLEGIENCE TO THIS COUNTRY -- and the U.S. will be no more because eventually the entire USA will be filled only with "permanent residents."

ALL WHO WANT THIS BILL = TRAITORS TO THE USA

""It appears, if this bill passes, that it will be MUCH harder to hire undocumneted workers and get away with it.""

Assuming, of course, that there is enforcement which there really isn't now.
How does this bill change the fact that the president can choose not to enforce the law??

""If you have a job that can be taken by a Mexican, that is your problem. If he or she can do a better job for less money well then tough shit.""

And if you are a returning Iraq veteran who works in the construction trades then tough shit...right Manypaths???
If you have an IQ of 90 then tough shit right Manypaths?? After all it must be your own fault right Manypaths???
Those without higher education can fight our wars but don't deserve a decent life right Manypaths???

Asshole.

It appears, if this bill passes, that it will be MUCH harder to hire undocumneted workers and get away with it.

Posted by Manypaths at 2007-05-18 03:39 PM | Reply

There will be NO enforcement. Even the 700 mile border fence passed INTO LAW last year has been cut back to 300 miles in this new bill and even then only 2 miles have been built so far. All this 'enforcement' crap is just that -- crap -- to keep people pacified until the law is signed.

WAKE UP -- there will be open borders and a flow of millions of millions of "permanent resident status" third world, unskilled, uneducated, low wage, serfs/workers for corporate USA who will eventually replace all U.S. citizens.

BUSH'S NEW WORLD ORDER

Danni,


I posted this earlier:


Employers hire illegals with impunity and laugh at the workers who formerly were paid decent wages.


I have a cousin who had wild youth. He was an alcholic, had a kid out-of-wedlock when he was 18 and spent a few months in jail for petty theft. When he got out of jail he gave up the bottle and got a line job with Ford - he was shifted to Mazda about 15 years ago. He's a good worker - he doesn't miss a day, he works hard and picks up overtime whenever he can. He makes good money, roughly $50k per year plus benefits. He supports his family on that income.


You know what?

His work is unskilled labor. You could take any person off the street and with 2 day's training, they could perform his work - he told ME this, not the other way around.

I am truly grateful that a guy like my cousin was able to find work that pays well enough for him to support his family and live a nice lifestyle.

The problem is that people exist, in droves, all over the world who are willing and eager to perform the exact same job function for a fraction of the pay.

Market forces are a bitch. What we are experiencing was inevitable. The cost of some of our manufacturing labor far exceeds its value. That sucks, but it's life.

The world has gotten more competitive. Due to increased labor supply, the wage that laborers earn is going down. It sucks, but I don't think anything can be seriously done to stop it.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-05-18 09:24 AM

You guys are arguing for points that this bill addresses.

More emphasis on SKILLED workers.

Read the Bill and don't let the sky hit you on the head Chrisy.

And if you are a returning Iraq veteran who works in the construction trades then tough shit...right Manypaths???
If you have an IQ of 90 then tough shit right Manypaths?? After all it must be your own fault right Manypaths???
Those without higher education can fight our wars but don't deserve a decent life right Manypaths???

Great Kerry moment Danni?

"Our soldiers are low IQ construction workers." - Danni

Yeah, and I'm the asshole.

Nice dude!

Jeff, your cousing earns $50k, what about a carpenter in Florida who earns $15.00 per hour building houses replaced by a Mexican who will do the same job for $8.00???
What about the health care benefits that the American worker received but which will now be delivered to the Mexican and his family through ER and paid for by the taxpayer?? What about the car accident the Mexican worker has without car insurance and can't be sued because he doesn't have a legal job that you could garnish wages???
Hell, most white collar jobs could be outsourced to India, or we could import well educated Indians who would gladly do the jobs for half of what Americans get.
Fact is we can protect jobs and wages, even though some folks pretend that we have to compete with foreign labor. We don't have to compete we can protect our industries exactly as Japan and other nations protect theirs.
It is a myth that we can't protect jobs put out by corporate investors who just want maximum profits, well they can have maximum profits but they can't necessarily have access to American markets. We do not have to participate in a race to the bottom, many other nations are not.

""Great Kerry moment Danni?

"Our soldiers are low IQ construction workers." - Danni"'

Nice try asshole but you can't play the statement out of context over and over like they did with John Kerry.
You aren't Fox News so your attempt to pretend that I said our troops all have an IQ of 90 just won't sell.
God... why do I have to remind you that you aren't on TV???? You can't edit comments like they do??? GEt it????
Maybe that 90 IQ comment applies to you???
Wouldn't want your job taken by a Mexican.

"" It sucks, but I don't think anything can be seriously done to stop it.""

Lucky for America FDR didn't think like you.

Wouldn't want your job taken by a Mexican.

Not a chance, therefore I do not fear immigrants.

Sorry to get you so upset, and of course you didn't mean or imply that our soldiers are all dumb construction workers. Because they aren't and will have no problems finding work in civilian life once they return.

""Because they aren't and will have no problems finding work in civilian life once they return.""

So you say but I personally know some who do have problems for the exact reason that Mexicans took over the construction industry in S. Florida.
The ones who do have construction jobs work for $12-$13 per hour in jobs that used to pay $18. That isn't imaginary, I know them, one is right here in the office visiting his girl friend as I type this.

Oh, and the Mexicans have such lovely sanitation habits on construction sites too. Defecating behind walls instead of going to the portojohn. My own son had to quit a high rise job because of that. It wasn't just one or two but virtually all of them creating a real health hazard. Oh, but you know all about it don't you Manypaths.

Lucky for America FDR didn't think like you.


Different time and different circumstances, Danni.

And it is great to work with a bunch of guys who all speak Spannish and refuse to learn English and then get together and make life uncomfortable for the "Anglos." Make it where "Anglos" including black men can't work there.
Yeah, you know all about it.

""Different time and different circumstances, Danni.


No it's imagination vs. no imagination.

Gotta go, time for the weekend.

The ones who do have construction jobs work for $12-$13 per hour in jobs that used to pay $18

Welcome to Capitalism. I agree it does have its flaws.

And for the record, the illegals that I hired got paid the same as everyone else did, one kid even more. I paid them what they were worth, despite their ethnicity. Why did I hire them then you may ask?

Because they showed up every day and worked their asses off. I couldn't say the same for all of their American co-workers.

See you Danni. Enjoy your weekend.

I WILL say this.

Most Americans would be totally shocked if they toured Miami. I know I was when I first got to South Florida, and that was ten years+ ago

It is more a South American city than a North American one.

Danni lives there, and you can see how it has affected her perspective.

I grew up in Ft. Laurderdale, Miami and Homestead.

I left in 1985.

It was over run with Cubans at that time.

I cannot imagine what it looks like today. They were already taking over local gov when I was there.

SO I DON'T LIVE THERE.

Time for a recall , and start with that fucking ted kennedy , put his traitorous fat ass in prison , then chertoff , what an assclown he is , having a faggot moment for kennedy . Then start arresting these town and city leaders who are defying the law of the land as to illegals , then arrest the worthless 2 pieces of shit clintons for having built the bridge for the illegal's future .
Fucking kennedy just took a major shit on the rights of every American citizen . If these fuckers cannot do the job they are being paid to do , then their dead asses need to be thrown in jail .
Is that commie mofo trying to seriously start a bloody civil war here in the U.S. ?

Get rid of these treasonous fucks and reverse their Bill , even with armed force .

Nut is right!

Not your opinion, your NAME!

Are you foaming?

Hahaha ritenut shure told yu Liib a thinge or to. ritenut is the smrtst poster on the site. you libs shud lern frum ritenut. ritenut is funy & smrt & gud. dum libs.

Ouch. It hurts to write like that.

manypaths, the statue of liberty and what is written on it came from france, had nothing to do with the founding fathers. Its nice to know youre so misinformed. Its not like you havent proven that over and over here. Also all the immigrants that came in here in the early 1900s had to go through ellis island and be processed to get into the country, they didnt just float over get off the ship and run around all over the place collecting welfare and getting free health care.

FF for you, CTA.

Every interest group imaginable has come out against this bill.

Aside from the loop holes, there's little incentive for any party to follow this law...so once again...we have a shiny new piece of legislation worth less than dog shit on my shoes.

Workers will continue to be paid substandard wages so CEO's can pocket huge severance packages. Families will be split apart, and violence will escalate.

This bill and our govt SUCK.

Yep, as corrupt as both parties are, come November the fools who think their votes can change the direction of government will get fooled again.

"Every interest group imaginable has come out against this bill."

The majority opposes this bill, just like they oppose the war. We are living in a pseudo-democracy.

IN Cogito, i agree w/ you 100%. The only people that gain are politicians and corporations.

I got a brief look at the highlights of the Bill and it looked like a maze of regulations. I have a feeling that if this law passes, a lot of immigrants are going to stay below the radar.

And the ones that don't are going to bring there brother,sister, mother...

"Z" visas are in the fine print. They cost $5,000. Do you think some low paid immigrant is going to pay that kind of money. I think the visa is good for seven years. This law is a bureaucrat's dream.

"It would allow the millions of undocumented immigrants already here to gain legal status virtually immediately and keep it indefinitely through a new "Z visa" that could be renewed repeatedly. Those seeking permanent legal residence or eventual citizenship would face long waits and have to pay fees and fines, and their household heads would have to return to their home countries."

From what I read, family relations count for almost nothing. They are looking for job skills.

I gotta say, strange bed fellows here...I find myself agreeing with the catholic church that this Bill will hurt immigrant families.

Dear Mr. President, lyrics by Pink
(feat. Indigo Girls)

Dear Mr. President,
Come take a walk with me.
Let's pretend we're just two people and
You're not better than me.
I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestly.

What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street?
Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep?
What do you feel when you look in the mirror?
Are you proud?

How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?
How do you walk with your head held high?
Can you even look me in the eye
And tell me why?

Dear Mr. President,
Were you a lonely boy?
Are you a lonely boy?
Are you a lonely boy?
How can you say
No child is left behind?
We're not dumb and we're not blind.
They're all sitting in your cells
While you pave the road to hell.

What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?
And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?
I can only imagine what the first lady has to say
You've come a long way from whiskey and cocaine.

How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?
How do you walk with your head held high?
Can you even look me in the eye?

Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Minimum wage with a baby on the way
Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Rebuilding your house after the bombs took them away
Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Building a bed out of a cardboard box
Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
You don't know nothing 'bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
Oh

How do you sleep at night?
How do you walk with your head held high?
Dear Mr. President,
You'd never take a walk with me.
Would you?

What's in a name, amnesty by any other name would smell as bad.

Families aren't split up if they all go back to Mexico.

Congratulations to the illegals. They have whined enough to get us to reward them for being criminals. I lost a house because of non-payment of taxes, but Our new citizens get a pass on their back taxes, our way of rewarding them for a job well done. It is a wonderful day for this country, the day we will merged with Mexico. A day to celebrate and be assimilated. Soon, we all will be required to learn our new Spanish language, along with how to cook up animal guts as food, teach our children how to shamblize grocery and department stores, as well as the proper disposal of diapers in lakes and streams. I have heard that Mexico's President, Foxx, has already rented offices in Downtown L.A., so he can be closer to his people. And to those who have waited in Line to get here, who have paid, filled out paperwork, and jumped through all the legal hoops presented to them, goodness, are you stupid or what? Do you not realize that this is the country of do as you wish? You do not need to follow the rules. You do not need to be civil. You do not need money for health care, or public services. Only the people who are born citizens need to worry. Only people who were foolish enough to think that our government would look after us. We are the ones who will pay your way. Welcome My Mexican Brothers. Welcome to what use to be the United States of America.

manypaths-

how would you feel if someone entered your home through illegal means and proceeded to rob you of things that you had to work for? then, when caught, only had to repay you a itsy-bitsy fraction of your possesions' true worth and still was allowed to keep them, if they paid at all? and the only reason they had to pay the pittance for the things they stole was if they wanted to be considered part of your family? personally, i'd shoot them where they stood (deportation), because they broke the law of the land. no one in my family expects a handout, and no one who enters our beloved country should either. carry your weight, abide by the law of the land, or go somewhere else.

Yeah like ya know, the "United States of Northern America"
Pretty cool huh?

calif, how in the world did the people of los angeles "ELECT" that fucker to govern the city? I didnt hear him say reconquista in his speech but I could only make out a few things he was saying because I dont speak any spanish. Is los angeles really mostly of mexican descent now?

I know people are brainwashed beyond all hope in this country that they are owed a living by everyone else and that message seems to transcend the racial divide. People just want to freeload off of everyone else. The biggest problem is the government letting them.

This is one of the reasons why we need former Sen. Fed D Thompson for President

Thats funny. Former Lobbysit Fred Thompson is gonna solve our border problems whilst sucking on illegal cigars from cuba?

Try again.