When an organ donor dies, they take effort to keep the organs "alive" for transplant. As a result, some not-so-dead donors have survived medical mistakes. There are a lot of reasons to become an organ donor, but I figured this is the only one that will break through to the self serving, unempathetic crowd. So, there you go. There's something in it for you after all.

I don't see a problem with this. The free market can work in this area too. It's better than some people getting organs from the black market where questionable methods are used and where donors are sometimes killed on purpose, or their money is somehow stolen afterwards.

Yeah, let's just go to Wal-Mart and get a kidney for $3. Doesn't Wal-Mart have clinics in some stores? I am sure the docs there will transplant it on for $100.

"""Regarding Mao's statement, Dr. Wang Wenyi said: "Under pressure from international societies, the regime admitted to harvesting organs from executed prisoners in order to shift attention away from the harvesting of organs from Falun Gong practitioners. The regime continues to cover up the truth, because Mao's admission to harvesting organs from executed prisoners does not explain the widespread and unusual expediency of organ matching for transplants in Mainland hospitals.""""

Seems to me the healthy, clean living on the part of the christian right makes them a perfect source of pure and unspoiled organs..., no? Could start with brain-transplant, they don't seem to flex that muscle too often.

"I don't see a problem with this. The free market can work in this area too. "

Sure why not? The glorious free market has no limits. Let people sell their organs. And new born infants, too. Hey, why not let people sell themselves into slavery as well? If you want to commodify everything, no point in just sticking to organs.

slippery slope of organs for sale.

"Let people sell their organs. And new born infants, too."

Why do you hate those in need of organs?

If you were dying and could live with a new kidney, would you wish there were a way to buy one? Or would you be glad the world is full of self-righteous pricks who think they are doing society a favor by standing in the way of a market they personally find distasteful?

Another problem with Whiny Bill's slippery slope argument is that people die from not having organs, so there is more justification for financial inducement to give organs than there is for creating a baby market. Nobody is dying from not being able to have a baby. Nobody is dying from not being able to have a slave. People are dying, every day, from not having a kidney. Of course, Bill doesn't care, his kidneys are fine (for now).

Hey Joe, you idiot. You don't think that poor people wouldn't start selling their organs under your kooky plan? And there are many libertarians, Ray for one, who advocate exactly what I said, i.e., that women should be able to sell their new born infants. And there are libertarians who advocate slavery as well.

But wait, I bet you're going to tell me they aren't "true" libertarians.

Come on, Joe. If we start allowing people to charge money for kidneys and other organs, simply because other people need them to live, where does it stop? Next thing you know, we'll be having to pay for food, for water, for prescription drugs. There'll be no end to it!

"You don't think that poor people wouldn't start selling their organs under your kooky plan?"

I see. So really, your motivation is to help (keep) poor people (from making their own decisions). Thank you for clearing that up.

"there are many libertarians, Ray for one, who advocate exactly what I said, i.e., that women should be able to sell their new born infants. And there are libertarians who advocate slavery as well."

Who cares? There are people out there who believe in many things. The point is that there is a greater justification for allowing people to sell their organs, since the buyers are currently dying from a lack of supply. No buyer of a baby or slave is dying from a lack of supply of babies or slaves, so your comparison is irrelevant and stupid.

Of course, RightwingIsRight agrees with "libertarian" Joe. A libertarian is just a Republican who does drugs.

Of course, RightwingIsRight agrees with "libertarian" Joe. A libertarian is just a Republican who does drugs.

My knee jerk response to this was "a Democrat is just a douch who can type." But it's clearly not in my best interest to post that. Clearly not.

How do you know I agree? Maybe the system is perfect right now: you're put on a long waiting list, and so you desperately hope somebody who is a lot like you in every respect gets into a horrible automobile accident--though his organs must survive intact--so that you can have another lease on life. I agree with you: what's not to like about that?

"How do you know I agree?"

You just said so.

Tell you what, Bill. For $150,000, I'll sell you 1/4 of my brain. I'll still be left with a lot more than I need, and it'll still be a lot more than you have.

"I see. So really, your motivation is to help (keep) poor people (from making their own decisions)."

I see. So you will allow selling body parts only if it's a life saving decision. And if that poor person sells a kidney, and later on needs a kidney himself, well, tough luck. Ah, the compassionate libertarians.

Leaving work for the day.

I just wanted to thank Bill for realizing that poor people are incapable of making their own decisions when someone waves a dollar in front of their face. Thank you, Bill, for having so much intelligence to spare that you can actually use the extra to make decisions for poor (dumb) people.

Thanks to you and others like you, Bill, 18 people will be dead tomorrow because they needed an organ but couldn't access one. Hopefully when you are dying of kidney failure, you'll feel great about the self-righteous garbage argument that you were actually doing society a favor by letting people suffer and die.

Don't flatter yourself. Your brain isn't worth a nickel, RightisRight.

"Bill for realizing that poor people are incapable of making their own decisions when someone waves a dollar in front of their face. "

Oh there's Joe, the crusader for poor people. What a fucking joke.

Um, it was a joke Bill.

You're right, though. If those creepy libertarians have their way, they'll start charging us for milk and cheese and bread. And doctors won't work for free anymore, even though they're giving us medical care--which we need to live. I mean, why can't we just count on anyone's generosity to give up their cows' milk, the wheat from their farm, and their organs?

Not fair, I tell ya.

" self-righteous garbage argument that you were actually doing society a favor by letting people suffer and die."

Blow me, you phony champion of the poor.

I am Joe, hear me roar
I shop at the Walmart store

Buying a lot of cheap, Chinese goods

But I don't give a fuck
About workers out of luck
I thought my posts, made that understood...

and yes, I know
I have an awful vice
If you hire me
I'll screw you over twice

I am Joe...
A Libertarian...
I am Woman.........


--I am Joe (lyrics by Helen Reddy and Bill O'Reilly).

7 posts now, Bill. Are you going to make a coherent argument as to why the present regimen should be observed? Or will you just be happy making ad hominem attacks all night long? Is Sally Satel a libertarian too, a "phony champion of the poor"? Do you really believe that allowing some sort of reward system for offering up your kidney to save another's life would COST lives, rather than save them?

"If you were dying and could live with a new kidney, would you wish there were a way to buy one? Or would you be glad the world is full of self-righteous pricks who think they are doing society a favor by standing in the way of a market they personally find distasteful?

Posted by JOE at 2007-04-30 05:34 PM"

The natural result of this would be that rich people would get the kidneys they need and poor people would be priced out of the market. Sounds like a perfect society.

"Are you going to make a coherent argument as to why the present regimen should be observed?"

I already did, dummy. Not everything should be up for sale, a concept you propertarians can't understand. By your logic, everything should be a commodity with a price on it.

"The natural result of this would be that rich people would get the kidneys they need and poor people would be priced out of the market. Sounds like a perfect society."

It would be, for the Propertarians.

Ah, what do I care. My kidneys are fine.

slippery slope of organs for sale.

Posted by CalifChris

The Neo's of the RIR ilk will be all for this but diametrically opposed to producing Zygotes for organ harvest.

All do protection until birth than the free market kicks in.

pathetic

I'm sorry does the zygote have a choice to be harvested or not zap?

Ok how about this. You can sell your organs rich people can buy them all legal but if you choose to keep your organs until you expire then you can donate them and the donated organs can go to medicaid recipients or other poor people.

The rich who pickled their liver can get the organ they need, the poor who pickle their liver can hope just like they do now that someone will die in time to save them.

It will remove the rich from the waiting list so it will help both the poor and the rich.

Does that suit you guys? If not why not?

TaoWarrior

I'm sorry does the zygote have a choice to be harvested or not zap?

Oh it's a choice issue!

Hmm, I wonder why prostitution is illegal?

After all in prostitution one is only renting parts.

"Ah, what do I care. My kidneys are fine."

Today.

But what about tomorrow?

Hans

"ou can sell your organs rich people can buy them all legal but if you choose to keep your organs until you expire then you can donate them and the donated organs can go to medicaid recipients or other poor people"

How is that different? Poor people will sell their organs to the rich. That's pathetic, but not surprising coming from Propertarians who view the poor as one vast organ farm.

The Neo's of the RIR ilk will be all for this but diametrically opposed to producing Zygotes for organ harvest.

All do protection until birth than the free market kicks in.

pathetic

Posted by Zap
* * * *

Actually, I'm not opposed to that. But don't be afraid to assume that you know everything about me.

Organs are for sale right now. The reason there is a black market, is that there is a market. If you libs say--with some justification--that the war on drugs is lost because there will always be someone who wants to smoke a joint, and why shouldn't he?--why doesn't your logic apply to someone willing to give up a kidney, so that someone else can live a few more years?

Selling organs is qualitatively different than selling marijuana. And the argument for legalizing marijuana doesn't hinge on whether there is a black market for it or not. Where would you draw the line on selling organs? If a person wants to give a good eye to a rich blind person, is that ok?

Because, as we all know, in the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is King.

I would hate to see the day where people had to sell their organs in order to survive. I believe this is abhorant and is selling a piece of the "Higher Powers" gift to You. But hey what do I know.

Larry

Does anyone know what countries allow their citizens to sell organs and what the impact has been?

"Starting on May 1, 2007, doctors involved in commercial trade of organs will face fines and suspensions in China"

Pretty pathetic when China can claim to have the moral high ground.

"We need to move beyond the idea that organs must be relinquished as gifts. The altruistic motive is deeply noble and loving. But relying upon it as the sole legitimate reason for giving an organ is causing too many unnecessary deaths."

Because of the shortage of cadaveric organs, the waiting period for a cadaveric kidney transplant has increased over the past few years and may be greater than five years. It is very important that you remain as healthy as you can while waiting for a transplant.

In British Columbia, the allocation of kidneys is based on time on the wait list. In addition, priority will be given to:

1) patients who are unable to dialyze;
2) patients under the age of 18; and
3) patients who have a high antibody level and are at high risk for rejection.

All patients on the waiting list are treated equally and evaluated objectively"

This is a foreign idea that they are trying to introduce into the body politic here.

Spud hopes it gets rejected.

Cash for flesh as an idea is immoral.

Shylocks bargain was no deal.

Be Well.

If you aren't an organ donor, look into it.

HINT: They wait until you're dead to take the stuff they need, and NO you aren't going to need any of that goopy mess when you're dead.

Why do you hate those in need of organs?

If you were dying and could live with a new kidney, would you wish there were a way to buy one? Or would you be glad the world is full of self-righteous pricks who think they are doing society a favor by standing in the way of a market they personally find distasteful?

Posted by JOE at 2007-04-30 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do you hate the poor in need of organs?

If you were poor and were next on the list, but each donors family decided to sell them to the highest bidder, you'd be dead and only the wealthy would survive.

Simple waiting lists even the playing field.

What stops a corporation or two from outbidding all civilians and then immediately reselling at twice what was paid?

Instead of rewards, why not a simple annual tax deduction? How much? I don't know, nothing crazy, but enough to make people get of their cholesterol laden asses and use a pen for a whole 30 seconds to fill out the card.

Zap,

Your right of course prostitution should be legal.

Bill,

Ok would this make you happy? You sell your organ for a flat rate and it goes to the next person on the list. It increases avalibility to everyone.

"Ok would this make you happy? You sell your organ for a flat rate and it goes to the next person on the list. It increases avalibility to everyone."

That would be better. But any system that encourages healthy people to sell their organs is a non-starter. We could encourage people to make their organs available upon death, as Commonsense stated, by a tax deduction. I have no problem with encouraging people to sign an organ donation card, on their death, by using financial incentives.

I am a free-market kinda guy.

On the one hand, I can clearly see the benefits to society vis a vis organ sales.

That said, there'e just something creepy and wrong about selling human tissue as if it's a box of kleenex.

Maybe I am old-fashioned but some things just shouldn't be for sale on an open market, positive tradeoffs be damned.

Let me see if I can post only ONCE instead of Thrice. I do not in good conscience see how ANYONE Could sell one of their organs when they were GIFTED to them at Birth. I do not see what kind of Mentality one could posess that would drive them to do such a thing. On another side what happens say You sell one kidney and then down the road Your last remaining one shuts down You are screwed. I just find selling Your organs akin to selling Your soul to the devil.

Larry

Larry,


Out of curiousity, where do you draw the line?

Dudes sell their cum and chicks sell their eggs to infertile parents-to-be. Many people get paid to donate blood. Now, some want to profit from the sale of kidneys - we have 2 but only need 1.

Jeff J-
I was about to ask you a similar question. What about water?

Boy that is a tough one JeffJ. Now for the Semen that is a replaceable item. Ova Hmmmmmmmmm that is trickyBUT it's not an organ so that wouldn't qualify. I'd much rather She GIVE the gift of life to someon The blood deal You aren't actually selling Your plasma/Blood You are selling some of Your time when "Donating" I just find the selling of Your Body parts to be akin to selling Your soul to the Devil. I just don't believe in it. THAT being said I do not feel I have a right to forbid another from doing just that. After all it IS their body.

Larry

I was about to ask you a similar question. What about water?


Posted by Boyd at 2007-04-30 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Yeah don't You find that selling of Water to be one of the most dastardly deeds Man has ever made?? I swear Greed is the root of all evil.

Larry

Boyd,

Well, I draw the line at auctioning off human organs, for openers. I see all of the benefits, but the prude in me is simply creeped out and offended by it. It's kinda like going to a Tigers game. There is not one surface on the fence surrounding the stadium that doesn't have an advertisement on it. At some point we have to say "enough is enough". In addition, too much advertising tends to result in sensory overload - all of which losing it's effectiveness.

As for water.....

I think it should be sold. Now, don't take that the wrong way. It's not as if I feel that people shouldn't have the basic necessities - it's just that feel-good 'solutions' such as free water carry unintended consequences that quite often outweigh the positive tradeoffs.

Boyd,

If you are a WKRP fan, you'll appreciate the reference...


It was a struggling radio station that landed a huge advertising account: Ferryman funeral homes. They created a 'hip' commercial advertising things like group rates. Well, Arthur Carlson ultimately dropped the account - the advertising was in bad taste.

"At some point, we have to take a stand."

...was his defense of his decision.


That's how I feel about organ sales. Hopefully you are familiar with the show, and in particular, that episode. I think it draws a great parallel to this discussion.

Jeff-
re (water): "It's not as if I feel that people shouldn't have the basic necessities."

That's precisely what I wanted to ask. At what point is it morally required that the functional and relatively prosperous share the gift of clean water to dying people?

(yeah...sorry...disturbing thought...my bad)

I loved WKRP. I had a crush on ...damn....the brunette with the glasses...tight jeans. My favorite episode is the turkey promotion...hilarious.

Seriously, I was just curious about where you drew the line.

Boyd,

It's an excellent question, for which I have no simple answer.


I like the fact that our country has it's share of drinking fountains - which don't require money to use. I like the fact that fast-food restaurants don't charge for water.

Basically, we don't have a dehydration problem in this country.

That said, I still think charging for water is a good idea. Why should I be able to water my lawn for free? Why should my neighbor be able to fill their swimming pool for free? Why should I run the shower for 45 minutes while my wife and I.....well, you get the idea.

Bailey

Baily Quarters!!

Yeah, she was hot and very under-rated about it.

The turkey promo was classic!

"For the life of me, I thought turkeys could fly."


I still think my favorite episode was when the played against WPIG in softball. Jennifer in her "new red shorts"!!!! All in all, utterly hilarious!

...regarding the jist of your question...

It's not that I want to tap the power of the state to regulate good or bad taste. It's just that I want to tap the public's sensiblity and sense of rightness and let those market forces drive out this type of thing.

Jeff-
Yeah, but I was speaking of the world (and Bailey). It'd be nice and foolish to pretend they don't exist (OK, maybe not Bailey).

Jeff-
wouldn't that just taint the free market with sentimentality...humanity...em otion...empathy, etc?

Boyd,


wouldn't that just taint the free market with sentimentality...humanity...em otion...empathy, etc?


All good things. However, when they are 'compelled' via force, it loses something.

I loved Les Nessman's Hindenburg bit when the turkeys were falling.

"...the humanity...!!!"

I loved Les Nessman's Hindenburg bit when the turkeys were falling.

"...the humanity...!!!"


That was some seriously funny shit.

The imagery of Art tossing turkeys out of a hovering helicopter spurred me into uncontrollable laughter. The rest of it, such as "the humanity" was just piling on.

Jeff-
I recognize and admire your mistrust of concentrated power, so where have you been?

At what point is it morally required that the functional and relatively prosperous share the gift of clean water to dying people?

One could ask the same question regarding grain.

Nothing like a little hyperbole and drama to beg the real question.

At what point is it required that the "functional" be required to pay a price for their clean water that reflects the value of their clean water?

Certain governmental entities---in certain semi-arid parts of the world---consider that to be $00.1478 per gallon.

Now why don't you explain to me how setting a price like that for clean water does a goddamn thing towards providing for the "dying" indigents that haunt your obviously stunted imagination?

wouldn't that just taint the free market with sentimentality

It's not the "market"---free or otherwise---that sets the price of water.

Sorry.

One could ask the same question regarding grain.

One could. It also seems that one better than either of us did.

It also seems that one better than either of us did.

"It also seems that one better than either of us did."?

Now...

What the fuck, exactly, is that "sentence" supposed to mean?

Start with English.

We'll worry about context later.

Jesus, dude!

Boyd,

For what it's worth, I didn't get what you were saying either.

Jesus, dude!

No.

Jesus could communicate.

Is it the Moneywar virus?

What would Jesus charge for clean water?

Is it the Moneywar virus?


In the heat of battle if 'Leadbelly' encounters composition such as this he'll ask, "Are you channeling Moneywar?"

What would Boyd Google in a fruitless effort to tell us all why privatizing water is a bad idea?

What would Jesus charge for clean water?

A rib?

Boyd- You're going to have to explain the jesus/grain thing. It's been a long time...

That's some pretty controversial shit you linked to there, Boyd.

Pinche-
Yeah. It's real controversial to the dead.

Pinche-
Yeah. It's real controversial to the dead.

Oooooh.

Such profundity from the earnest little Progressive with nothing to say.

Jeffe---

I'm gonna turn Zack and Screech here out into your country.

Nighties all...

Pinche-
That's OK. You don't say much anyways.

Boyd- you need to explain the grain statement...

Mao,

'Nite.

May you be the recipient of the early morning poke!

Jeff-

re: May you be the recipient of the early morning poke!

??? Tell us more...

Jeff-

Use of what "creeps you out" to gauge what should or should not be allowed is subjective and dangerous, especially when you acknowledge that there are benefits to the behavior but choose to disallow it anyway because you find it personally unnerving.

Just because something "creeps you out" doesn't mean you should prevent others who aren't "creeped out" by it from doing it. The justification you offer for your position could be used by proponents of laws against a multitude of private behaviors that are allowed in our country. Freedom of contract and a right to privacy are part of the constitution for a reason.

??? Tell us more...


For some reason I've found that sex in the morning is more enjoyable than sex just before sleep. I commented to that effect once and Mao wholeheartedly concurred, in his colorful fashion.


If you don't mind such a personal question....do your own personal experiences back this up?

Joe,

You are 100% correct.

My position is on this is purely emotional.

Nevertheless, I can't help how I feel on the subject.


As I said earlier - I recognize the positives of this sort of trade and I abhor the state over-stepping. Nevertheless, I sincerely hope that market forces help eliminate the level of control of the Coloists.

And not that you asked me Jeff, but I agree with your opinion on morning sex. Maybe it's because the sun is out and you can see your lady.

Organs, blood, semen, and eggs are not for sale in every country. Some of them actually have the moral fiber to limit this to things "non-human" in origin.

Having said that, foreign aid, made up of such things as our over abundant grain harvests are a good thing. Until it ends up in some gun-toting goon's hands as it often does.

I came into this party extremely late, but I'd like to address the basic "where do we draw the line" arguement that O'Reilly brought up earlier (4/30 1708):

"Let people sell their organs."
I'd agree with this; it's the person's decision what to do with his own system.

"And new born infants, too."
No, absolutely not. Yes, we are dealing with an infant who is incapable of making decisions for itself, but you're still talking about an individual selling someone else off, which has been deemed all sorts of illegal.

"Hey, why not let people sell themselves into slavery as well?"
It'd actually be indentured servitude, and... well, I'd agree with this actually (again, the person is making a decision about what happens to himself, rather than someone else), although I'm really not sure why anyone would do it. Now, there was someone on this board (Petrous, I believe, but I can't say for sure as it has been a while since the arguement was used) that suggested that indentured servitude be used as a criminal punishment. To which I say (provided the law allows it, the arguement was made it would but I cannot be sure about that) sure, why not; hell we used it back in colonial days, and it seemed to work then (although being an indentured servant for ten years for stealing a loaf of bread with considerably fewer safeguards than would almost certainly be required in this day and age does seem harsh, true).

Bill, you seem to forget (and I have reminded you of it on a few occasions, though true, I can only speak for myself, and not for other libertarians) that those of my particular political bent are more interested in personal responsibility than anything else. The rule is (or seems to be), "An' it harm none else shall be the whole of the law." If you want to screw up your own life, you go right ahead, but don't expect someone else to bail you out if you do, and don't try to drag other people with you if you do.

Cairo,

Organs, blood, semen, and eggs are not for sale in every country. Some of them actually have the moral fiber to limit this to things "non-human" in origin.

Beacuse you feal it is imoral it should be outlawed?

Just checking.

To tell the truth, this would produce a win-win situation. It should be regulated with all the advanced technology we have at out disposal and the income taxed. Were going to have to get creative if we want to dig ourselves out of this deficit hole weve dug for ourselvles. Why not? No more shady deals and forget the self-serving talk of donating infant organs (18 min),

Letusreason-

Don't try to "reason" with Bill. He thinks the government should protect poor people from making bad decisions, because all poor people are stupid, and only they would be dumb enough to sell their organs. When you're dealing with someone who thinks it is the role of our government to protect us from ourselves, any talk of personal responsibility might as well be written in sanskrit.

Thanks, Letusreason, for that thoughtful response. That's much more substantial than anything you'll get from that screechy Angry Joe, who is now trying to portray himself as a defender of poor people. LOL.

I've had many substantive posts in this thread. See my 2:29AM to Jeff, and my 5:51 and 5:38PMs yesterday.

BTW, I never said I was a defender of poor people. I'm a defender of freedom from people like you who think they know what's best for everyone else, but please, don't let that get in the way of your ad hominem bullshit.

Sure, Joe. You're a real freedom lover and champion of the poor's rights to sell themselves to the rich.

"and only they would be dumb enough to sell their organ"

Yeah, I'm sure rich, healthy people are going to sell their organs. Idiot.

Like I said yesterday Bill, it's great that there are people like you in this world that are so much smarter than poor people. It's great that you are so generous as to use your good judgment to spare those dumber (poorer) than you from their own stupid decisions. Without great Americans like yourself our society might dissolve into one based on freedom of contract and rights to privacy in making medical decisions, and that would be scary.

"freedom of contract"

I know, Joe. You are a great advocate of poor people being able to sell themselves. You've already said that. Obviously there is no other factor to consider here, no moral question involved, no question of who is selling and who is buying, nothing other than the sanctity of the holy free market.

"You are a great advocate of poor people being able to sell themselves"

You forget about living donors who already give their kidneys for free. Are they all poor? Would more people like them come out of the woodwork if financial incentives were involved? Maybe, but who am I to say that we should be saving peoples' lives? Making yourself feel good about protecting the stupid is a much more important goal.

Well if you're in favor of saving people's lives, how about making it possible for poor people to buy organs they need? Maybe instead of food stamps we could give them organ stamps, and give them equal capacity to buy the organs on the market.

I biggest fear is if they allow organs to be bought and sold, who would actually donate an organ?

As a middle class American, I doubt I could pay the going rate for a new kidney. At least with the current system, I would stand a chance of getting a kidney if I needed one.

Yes, the current system has flaws, but at least organs are doled out according to need and not to the highest bidder.

I was going to continue in this thread, but there seems little point, as both sides just seem to want to attribute arguements to the other to make their own positions look better. You two carry on, I'll just get the popcorn and chai ready.

Well if you're in favor of saving people's lives, how about making it possible for poor people to buy organs they need? Maybe instead of food stamps we could give them organ stamps, and give them equal capacity to buy the organs on the market.

Posted by Bill_OReilly


Fuck the poor. If they had any gumption they'd have more money.

*headdesk* JeffJ, stop with the trolling already, okay? Besides, the Nooner opened up recently, you'll probably have more fun in there.

Letus,


both sides just seem to want to attribute arguements to the other to make their own positions look better.


It happens all of the time on DR.

Just trying to induce a little levity, Letus.

Ah, something I can respond to, at last:

Katieberry, regarding your 1210:
The going rate for an organ... see, if you're buying from an individual rather that a corporation (and I think that might be what O'Reilly is really afraid of, correct me if I'm wrong here Bill, and I would easily agree that a corporation "orgam farm" does in fact have too much potential for screwing those without means), then negotiation is possible, and a price can be agreed upon that would be within your means (something much less likely to happen if an artificial market standard were applied). Also, I rather doubt (and this may just be wishful thinking on my part; for that matter, considering my low opinion of humanity in general, it might be considered a wildly optimistic statement) that people would cease to donate their organs after death voluntarily (charity is not dead in this world, something I will readily concede).

Let people sell organs for money, it would solve alot of problems. T

"Well if you're in favor of saving people's lives, how about making it possible for poor people to buy organs they need"

That's a great idea Bill. I'm all for it. First you have to allow people to sell organs in the first place. I'd be all for Medicare and similar programs providing organ payments for those in need that cannot afford them.

That said, I still think charging for water is a good idea. Why should I be able to water my lawn for free? Why should my neighbor be able to fill their swimming pool for free? Why should I run the shower for 45 minutes while my wife and I.....well, you get the idea.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-05-01 01:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Free water?

Most people I know do pay for their water through local taxes or they get a water bill. Ever hear of a water meter?

The only people I know that don't pay for water are the ones with artesian wells, and that because it's a matter of using what is in the ground on your own property.

Deal with your mortality. If your parts fail you- too bad, that is life. People whom think it is okay to ask for someone elses body parts have absolutly no morals.
What makes YOU so important that you should continue to live, using some one elses parts? That you are willing to pay for them? Or can afford to?
Oh, I know! I know! You're not READY to die.
Too bad. Your body says different. So die with dignity, shut up about how life is so unfair, no body will give you a kidney. Kind of like corporate America asking for tax cuts while stranding their employees high and dry.
Civilized people do not harvest other peoples body parts. Civilized people understand their finite existance and deal with it.
Bunch of necro- perverts.

"Deal with your mortality. If your parts fail you- too bad, that is life."

Oh, cool. Why even go to the doctor? If I get sick, that means it's my time to go. If I break my leg, it means I was supposed to have a broken leg. If my parts fail me, too bad. What a moron.

"What makes YOU so important that you should continue to live, using some one elses parts?"

What makes it have anything to do with being important? Maybe your kidney fails at age 30 and you want to live a normal lifespan. If someone else has a healthy kidney to spare and wants to sell it to you, what makes YOU so important that you think you have the right to tell those individuals they can't engage in that mutually beneficial transaction?

No, I dont see doctors, they are not that smart, and I dont want to live forever.
Its important, because of that very question. Why would you want someone elses body parts? To live, while someone else dies.
Now tell me how it is mutually beneficial? It is wholly an act of greed on one party. Just another way for humans to profit from misery.
If your kidney goes at age 30, THAT IS your normal life span.
Deal with your mortality.
Just die.

"I dont want to live forever."

Finally...something I agree with this idiot on.

I don't want him to live forever either!

Time for a comment on subject:

I disagree with selling body parts, but donating them is a wonderful contribution to mankind.

I have a friend who needed a transplant. If he hadn't of gotten it, his 7 year old son would have grown up without a father.

The man who received my mothers eyes that I donated after her death, saw his baby girl for the very first time.

What a wonderful gift to leave this world as you venture into the next.

I'm against medicine simply because our world is completely over populated nd the inhabitants of theis planet are stripping it clean and not allowing it to recover. I think we need to halve the population of this world in 3-5 years. Start with not helping third world countries

I have a question for those who favor the selling of organs for profit. Several people mentioned support for government programs to buy organs for those that couldn't afford them.

Would you support government price control on organs, so everybody still stands a chance? To me, it seems like there wouldn't be a going rate for an organ without this, as the cost would be whatever somebody is willing to pay.

I honestly don't think a rich alcoholic is any more entitled to a new liver (and life) than a poor 20-something with cancer just because he has money.

I also understand that it happens already (w/so many uninsured) but I don't like the idea of someone having to decide between his life and selling his home to buy a kidney. I can imagine it would be a tough choice, either live and declare bankruptcy, or die and let your family receive life insurance.

I'm also curious if anyone who opposes stem-cell research actually supports the idea of selling organs.

One change I would like to see to the organ donation process is to bump those who were organ doners before getting sick to the top of the list.

Harrier, re your 05/01 2230 post:

Your estimates and timeframe are off, I fear. 97% dieoff, within three months. If we're going to do it, let's bloody well do it right.

All humans suck (myself included).

"Now tell me how it is mutually beneficial?"

Well, on one hand, you have a guy willing to sell his kidney for money, and someone is giving him money for it. He gets what he wants.

On the other hand, you have someone willing to buy a kidney, and someone is giving him that kidney for his money.

Perhaps you just don't know what "mutually beneficial" means.

"No, I dont see doctors, they are not that smart, and I dont want to live forever."

LOL. Good, I think that's nature's way of getting rid of the biggest idiots first. When you break your leg, do you go to the hospital? Or is that just your time to have a broken leg and gimp around for the rest of your life?

I can set my own fractures.
I have stiched my own wounds since I was a child.
I pull my own teeth. Regularly file others.
Knew I had cancer 2 years before any doctor(pain meds).
If I am injured to the point of death, there are explicit demands to not use life saving measures, including blood transfusions. At least 7 scull fractures. Double shattered mandable in a bar fight(very painful). 2 heart attacks. Tossed from a moving vehicle twice. Run over by a car or truck 2 times. Whooping cough, measels, mumps(8-9 times),pox. survived a 5.5 grain dose of methaqualone sulphate.
I work 7 days a week, on an average of 4 hrs. sleep a night. I work in -20 to 120 f, year round.
I dont wear watches, because they quit working in a matter of seconds, and are non-repairable. I dont wear any jewelry, as they leave burn marks on my body, if worn more than a few minutes. Most electronic equipment goes berserck when I am present. I can knock a grown man to the ground( static charge)just by shaking his hand. I dont shake many hands.
I stand 5'8" tall, weight of 205, a 31 inch waist, 48-18 shirt. I eat at least 10000 calories, plus 1 pound of chocolate, every day, for at least the last 25-30 years.
I scare doctors.

Everyone's that scary on the internet. That's the funniest thing I've ever seen.

That one really does need to be archived in a safe place.

In my 4 years of participation at DR, it takes the cake.

It's a Hall o' Famer.

I can knock a grown man to the ground( static charge)just by shaking his hand. I dont shake many hands.
I stand 5'8" tall, weight of 205, a 31 inch waist, 48-18 shirt.

Did you also come outta New Orleans, where you'd got in a fight o'er a Cajun queen, and a crashing blow from a huge right hand sent a Louisiana feller to the Promised Land?

Tossed from a moving vehicle twice. Run over by a car or truck 2 times. Whooping cough, measels, mumps(8-9 times),pox. survived a 5.5 grain dose of methaqualone sulphate.
I work 7 days a week, on an average of 4 hrs. sleep a night. I work in -20 to 120 f, year round.
I dont wear watches, because they quit working in a matter of seconds, and are non-repairable. I dont wear any jewelry, as they leave burn marks on my body, if worn more than a few minutes. Most electronic equipment goes berserck when I am present. I can knock a grown man to the ground( static charge)just by shaking his hand. I dont shake many hands.
I stand 5'8" tall, weight of 205, a 31 inch waist, 48-18 shirt. I eat at least 10000 calories, plus 1 pound of chocolate, every day, for at least the last 25-30 years.
I scare doctors.

Posted by gitmboy at 2007-05-02 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Tossed from a moving vehicle...twice".

Damn! I don't even know you and I already want to do the same.

Git mo - now you GOTTA post a pic of your bad self.

"Why should I run the shower for 45 minutes while my wife and I.....well, you get the idea.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-05-01 01:24 AM"

Funny flag for you, Jeffe. 45 minutes my ass. 4.5 seconds, maybe.

No, you dont. The road rash(if on pavement) alone is quite painful.
And no Montecore, no bad self here. Just life. My entire family, and those friends still breathing will tell you I am one of the most gentle people you will ever meet.
Just dont hit your wife or significant other when I am in the same establishment. Dont try an armed robbery while I am buying food or cashing a check. And never, and I mean never, point a loaded firearm at me and not squeeze that round off.
Pinche- that is funny. There are no photos of me, and I will not allow anyone to take one, save my drivers license. Not even baby pictures.

Gitmboy-

You are funny. Do you chop down trees all day, and build houses with your bare hands? Do you crush mens' heads with your enormous biceps and then rescue dames from raging fires all in a days' work? Do you wrestle lions for sport and then outrun alligators to keep yourself limber?

I know, funny I should ask...